19760505VCTR1DVR Talk 2 SMW

Impulse and Mind.

Following the other night's discussion
we could [coughs] continue in the

particular understanding of the

impulse and mind.

In the some sense you could say

that state without impulse

doesn't have a mind,

purely mechanical,

but on the other hand you could say
nevertheless

that impulse and mind work together

and if you have a mind alone

it would be difficult to have
an impulse too,

mind situation. [Coughs]

But in lot of rare occasions that,

that happened,

that mind brings impulse along with it,

but at the same time mind is separated

from impulse,

nevertheless.

Impulse is somewhat of garbage,

an active,

restlessness,

but mind is somewhat

thought process,

thinking process,

in which the mind actually functions.

And the discursive mind,

the minds of understanding,

minds of insight and all the rest of it, so

impulse and mind become very

fuzzy at some point.

But however in the Buddhist tradition
of course that we have

always divided those 2 sections as

being very separate thing:

action and thinking are
very separate thing.

Quite often action could be wrong

but thinking could be right;

on the other hand, thinking
could be wrong

but action could be right,
then that's it,

we get into Vajrayana which we don't need
to discuss this point, particularly,

however...

just occasional reference point here,

if you don't mind.

There's skilful means,

applications,

compassions,

against mind,

insight,

understanding,

sense of clarity as well,

are all included in those 2 categories.

But it is very vague, actually;

we can't definitely say

which belongs to which particular camp,
so to speak.

And sometimes Buddhist logic
becomes rather fuzzy,

at this point, because

for real Buddhists who are brought up
in Buddhism

and have actually practiced,
understood the whole thing,

couldn't care less

what part of which is function
and which where.

So becomes somewhat fuzzy edge
in some sense.

The definition of a mind

maybe we should discuss slightly
more tonight,

uh, mind in this case,

the one of the definitions,
according to the Buddhist tradition,

is

mind is so,

therefore you can

mind to situations.

So in other words,

the definition of mind is
somewhat functional,

that mind can be only mind

if it only minds situations,

only relates with the mind,
only related with situations.

That could be only function of the mind,
otherwise

if mind doesn't function

in the relationship to situations alone,

then mind cannot be mind because
it couldn't mind itself.

And beyond that,

has also the reference point of

dash of intelligence

and dash of also confusion,

which brings together

intelligent and confusion
put together,

which usually tend to bring
some kind of spark,

and if you're on the heavy side
of either of those,

either you're called as completely
freaked out or

neurotic, or schizophreniac or

whatever you have,

or else you are highly intelligent
and very even minded,

as traditionally known in English
language.

But the basic point of the mind here
is not so much of the

traditional concept of the higher mind

of the dharmakaya or whatever
we might discuss in the

vajrayana or really enlightened level,

but we are here, we're discussing

something that we perceive,

something we actually understand,

somewhat, and something we
actually can watch our own mind

constantly taking place,

we can have a check

and recheck, check and recheck
on our mind.

And mind checks itself,

as if a dog bites its own body

of flea,

the mind can only also can check

its own irritations and bite itself,

free from fleas, irritations,
what have you.

So the mind calls by itself

and work with itself,

and at the same time also
projects out whenever

there is any kind of danger,

or aggressive situation involved,

or any kind of situations where

mind would like

magnetize

its comparable babysitter.

or comparable companion,

and mind begin to

magnetize them as well at the same time,

and it's wishful thinking, of course.

So mind is somewhat

very flexible worm

which doesn't have a backbone
to spray itself

but it could curl back and forth,
even if it's cut in half

could grow itself by different
individuals,

it's just like a worm

with a very flexible backbone,
without a backbone,

but still functioning, mind is a worm
you could say. [Laughter]

And then when mind begin to meet impulse,

which is a temptation

as the theistic tradition talks about

fall of man and all kinds of bad things
that man did [laughter],

fall of man and all the rest of it.

That mind has geared

in the wrong direction,
wrong situation as always,

according to the theistic traditions
that we've never been right,

we've never been in the dot, properly,

completely.

And we swayed wrong all the time,

that as far as the idea of

impulse is concerned

that mind is such

that it could also run into problems

and promises of all kinds,

which conventionally are called

opportunities.

And people say that

going to the United States of America,

it's the land of opportunity.

You can be a rich person.

If not you can at least be earning
your living. [Laughter]

Impulse comes from somewhere else.

Impulse is not really a separate entity

from that point of view particularly,

but impulse is just

a wall where your mind's echo
begin to hit;

that's the wall of the impulse where

that echo transmit back its own
reproductions

back to you,

what you projected back to you.

If you're nasty to somebody,
shall we say,

and the wall begin to also repeat same

nasty words and say

piss on you.

And we tend to think that
somebody else said that and

we begin to

to attack them and we begin to have

a terrible time them with them,

and if you say fuck you!,

and the wall says fuck you too,

and it only gets louder and louder
and louder

and keep on saying it

until we are exhausted ourselves,

that that wall begin to transmit back

its own messages, constantly again
and again.

So that's the epitome of impulse,

fundamentally speaking.

That the impulse is not so much

impulse as wrong-doing,

or impulse that you get yourself
in an accident, particularly,

but impulse in some sense
from the point of view that

you have produced enough input

and because of that

you get what you put out in return,

which is the impulse situation,

that if we have a negative relationship

with the world,

the world gives us a hard time too

because that's what we put in,

and the world returns its

reflections,

which is volitional action

in the Buddhist tradition
of Hinayana discipline,

of karmic consequences.
Not so much of

there is guy who is trying to

judge every action that you have
committed or done

and trying to put you in their
black book,

but it's just simply mechanical
reactions that bounce back

and forth constantly.

Actions and reactions.

And interestingly, the skilful means

could come from that echo;

that that's why the whole thing is known
as skilful means.

Why skilled?

Why means?

It's because it depends on how you

put in to the situation

and how you wanto to tone

your echo when it returns to you,

and you can make

some kind of statement

when your voice is bounced back
on a wall.

Of course, that through
the transmission of

your voices bouncing back from
your mouth

to the wall

and getting back to the wall

to you,

you begin to hear in your ears,

there are lot of distortions involved but

the ideal skilful means is that you have

so much understanding of the

journey that takes place with
your voice going there

and coming back to you,

and also the level of what kind
of surface you're reflecting

your voice, whether it's a hard surface

or soft surface,

and you have a complete understanding
of all that situation;

so skilful means becomes
further feedback

to be more skilful, in other words,

that you have more understanding

of how you project yourself,

and when you project yourself properly

in a very well balanced way

it bounces back,

and bounces back in your favor,

so to speak.

So that seems to be the very basic

ordinary level of Hinayana

discipline of skilful means,

and also mind,

and the mind has to operate
at the same time.

Nevertheless at the same time
the mind itself

has its own inbuilt chamber

of echo chambers

within mind itself at the same time.

You're having thought flashes
in your mind - ding!-

and then goes dong! and

it comes back to you;

and sometimes

first flash is excitement

and second flash is

what can you do with that,

whether you can actually

achieve something out of it,

so mind begin to

work in circles.

Then finally we decide to actually
project the wall.

We make a statement of that

and it bounce back on a greater level

from that point of view.

So the wisdom and compassion,

or the wisdom and skilful means level

in the very primitive level we are
talking at this point

is also very interestingly powerful,

very powerful.

I don't think I should

tell you too much

and maybe you get more confused,

so that you are unable to tell
the echoes

in this ripe situation, whatever,

so the question/answer period is

open for you. Please.

Q: I was wondering if there's a word
for spontaneity in the

Buddhist tradition, like,

say someone scares you and

you react, you know,
it doesn't seem like

there's an echo going on;

is there an echo really going on or

is there a place where
you can just react?

VCTR: What you mean by that?

Q: Well, I know that personally,
like if I'm scared or

you know someone surprises me

I see my body is all prepared

and ready for action, you know.

I don't have any...

it doesn't seem like I have time
to think about it.

VCTR: You don't seem to time
to think about it?

Q: Mm-hmm...

VCTR: You don't seem to be trying
to think about it?

Q: No. I just react.

I don't... what I'm asking is if
that is an echo?

VCTR: Not necessarily but

when you say react,

it means echo already

in the linguistic point of view,
I suppose.

Q: That I've already been processed
to react in this way?

VCTR: Well, it doesn't take
all that long, you know.

It's very fast.

And as we say in the books,

that aggressive moves take
much faster

speed

and then with the passionate moves

it takes much slower.

Whereas passion and aggression
mixed together

then becomes very frantic

because you are struggling
with the slowness

of the maturity of your passion

or your lust, whatever,

and the same time speediness
of the whole thing

so there's conflict then,
that's why

you fall in love. [Laughter]

Q: In the hell realm the situation is
really crowded

with a lot of heat

and it strikes me maybe a situation
could get so crowded

that there wouldn't be room
for any echoes.

VCTR: Echoes?

Sure. The heat bounce back on you.

Q: I mean, like could get
so crowded that...

VCTR: Well, not only, there are 2 types
of hell realm

which is one is extremely cold,

one is also hot at the same time.

But nonetheless

those are not particularly the issue

but the issue only comes

that

hell realm is your own manifestation

rather than you are put
in the nazi camp

by mistake.

Q: Put which?

VCTR: Nazi camp. By mistake.

Hell realm is not like that.

Q: Yeah. So you couldn't envisage
a situation where

where there wouldn't be room...

VCTR: There's no any situation
in the whole of the cosmos law,

so to speak,

where there's no bouncing back
and forth that's taking place

unless it is your doing.

Q: Yeah.

VCTR: And that's well known fact

and fundamentally the whole thing
is your doing

rather that anybody's doing
terrible thing to you.

Particularly, you know,

there's no such thing as devil's
advocate particularly, you know.

Q: So, so would you also say that

if there's always an echo

then you can't...

VCTR: There's always what?

Q: There's always an echo.

VCTR: Always echo, yeah?

Q: Then there's no such thing
as let's say, ah,

a thought or an event...

VCTR: Yeah?

Q: That's pure in itself without any...

VCTR: Yeah. Sure, sure.

But your concentration is not
good enough

to listen to the echoes all the time.

Q: Yeah.

VCTR: Which is the vajrayana practice,
actually the mahamudra practice

which we discuss much later.

Q: When... when you say...

VCTR: But if you are constantly aware
of the echoes all the time

then you are fine,

but we have not enough

span of attention

to stick with that any more at all

and we constantly just dream back,

we just close off the whole thing

and we daydream and produce more

and bounce back more things

so we don't really allow anything
to happen anywhere.

Q: Is that like, like solidifying,

like the attempt to solidify is
to ignore echoes

and just see clear form.

VCTR: Well, solidify in oneself but

you would like to have iron heart.

Q: Iron heart?

VCTR: Yeah.

That's usually the problem is

that you would like to be solid

and your heart can't pulsate it.

Q: No, no blurring.

VCTR: But at the same time

you don't want anybody to

penetrate through your heart.

Q: Yeah.

Q: Is there an energy behind
skilful means?

Or does it just kind of arise?

Or appeared? Or get discovered?

VCTR: I think that's a stupid question
to ask.

If I may say so.

I knew you were going to say that.

It is why it is stupid that there's
no confirmation.

And if I said, yes there is indeed,

then what you doing to do?

If you look for it,

try to cultivate it,

then we produce more echoes.

You see what I mean?

It, the whole thing is not really mystery.

But it is very personal and direct.

Very personal and direct. And

maybe I shoudn't say stupid but

innocent, shall we say. [Laughs, laughter]

Okay, young lady over here.

Turquoise color.

Q: Rinpoche, for the last 4 or 5 months

I've been breaking a lot of glass.

It's been exploding in my face,
and just

dropping it, it's really weird.

Is that a form of an echo?

Every time it happens I have a feeling

that someone trying to tell me something.

VCTR: You should read this book called

Tintin [Laughter]

There's one particular

volume, particular edition,

particular book,

The Seven Crystals

and it keep on doing that.

And you might enjoy that comic.
[Laughter]

It's such a great one.

But what you're saying anyway?

Q: Well, the glass explodes in my,

practically in my face but I never
get hurt.

And when it's happening it's always
at a point where

things seem really chaotic.

And I just,

I have a feeling that a message
is trying to be sent to me,

not sent to me but,

something is happening

but I really don't understand what
is happening.

VCTR: Well, don't try to figure it out,
just

watch your mind.

Sit and practice.

That's it.

It doesn't matter about glasses.

You might discover them later.

And, but read Tintin. [Laughter]

Seven crystal balls.

that's the title.

Tintin

"Tantan"

is French translation.

Young lady over there in green. Becky.

Q: I feel very confused about impulse.

It sounds to me as though you're
saying that impulse is the echo.

It seems to me as though impulse
might be

the projection of mind.

VCTR: Impulse is projection.

Yes, indeed. But nevertheless,

it functions by itself.

Q: I can see that, uh...

VCTR: But when you see

your projection usually what we think
in those terms is that

we think we can control the screen.

If we have the projector of the movie.

And if someone says switch off that set,

he just switch off, the screen
goes blank.

But in this case it's a different kind
of game.

And even if you switch off
this particular set

of your movie, your particular thing,

the screen still goes on.

Q: So that's sort of karmic volition.

VCTR: That's what volition actually, yeah...

good thinking,

well said.

Okay. Gentleman, shinny headed.

Q: Is mind somehow separate...

VCTR: Sorry? Can you say that again?

Q: Is mind somehow separate
from situation or is there

in some sense only mind?

VCTR: Well, mind is mind.

And mind projecting to situation

makes mind mind.

Comprendo? [Laughter]

Red shirt.

Q: Rinpoche, is there impulse to open?

VCTR: What do you mean by that?

Q: Ah, well, it seems that, ah

that the impulses are sort of motion

that go on inside

and the motion is something

that you put out and it seems
to be reflected back.

And, ah, some place along the line,
i'm not sure whether it's a

hangover from

some sort of theistic training or what,

but I have what seems like a
goodie-goodie impulse,

not all the time but,

a sort of an impulse to open
and to want to

to make some sort of a connection.

VCTR: Connection to what?

Q: Usually with another being,
another phenomenon.

VCTR: Another being?
Q: Yeah.

VCTR: Flying saucer? [Laughter]
Q: No, humanoide.

VCTR: What?
Q: Humanoids

VCTR: What?
Q: People.

VCTR: People?
Q: Or animals or...

VCTR: Such as what?

Friends? Lovers? Parents?
Dogs? Cats?

Q: Such as all of these.

VCTR: All of us?
Q: Yeah

VCT: Yeah. So what?

Q: I'm wondering, okay, my sense of

what impulse was when you were talking

of it 2 days ago...
VCTR: Yeah.

Q: that there were sets of aggregates
that ah,

that ah, had to do with sort of
neurotic aspects of mind.

VCTR: Well, let us not talk about neurotic
aspects of the mind,

we are trying to talk about what

we are, basically at this point.

And it doesn't matter who has the bad

and the good impulse.

This case impulse is not particularly
conditioned that level,

at this point.

Impulse is still simply impulse.

And you never understand
the Buddhist path

if you begin to evaluate and say

this is your bad part of you,

this is the good part of you,

and let us work with your bad part
and you're too bad,

you're too rigid, wretched,

and you're so bad but nevertheless

it's the best you can do.

That doesn't work.

In the Buddhist tradition we talk about

you have what you have

whether it is known as good or bad,

your particular culture or upbringing,

whether it is occidental or oriental
approach,

culturally, whatever it may be.

But still very simply,

it is you simply functioning.

And that's why sitting practice
of meditation,

whether orientals sit, or
occidentals sit,

or the Afrikaans sit,

it doesn't really make much difference
as that.

Is just simply that you sit and meditate.

And I think we ought somehow
go beyond

the cultural and the conception level
a little more than that.

Impulse is good

because it is connected with
the Buddhist approach

and Buddhism is good in any case

because Buddhism covers

universal approaches anyway,

so we don't have to bother about that
any more at all.

And Buddhism is everything,

including your cup of tea

or the dog shit on the sidewalk.

Everything's ace Buddhist experience

once you begin to get into that.

And I think we have to be much more brave

and more respectable

and we don't have to punish ourselves
by being

terrible bad particularly.

It is nontheistic discipline.
[Laughter]

Okay. Last 2 questions, okay? Um,

whom shall we choose?

There's lots of eager students.

Okay, this young man first.

Q: Rinpoche, if we're projecting on

situations all the time with our mind,
how are we going to

go about feeling what we're
bouncing off of?

How's that different?

VCTR: You don't. You don't how.

You don't how.

Q: You mean you don't decide
whether is soft

or hard particularly? Okay.

VCTR: You don't how.

How to do it is ah, comes with ah,

the wonders of the western civilization.
[Laughter]

You don't how, you do it.

Next?

The young lady in the orange scarf here.

Q: As regards the wall

it would seem like there's a
relationship between the wall

and mirror.

But you have said that

the guru is the mirror.

VCTR: The guru is a different category
all together.

Q: A different category all together

and ah, but, it's like

"mirror, mirror on the wall

who is the fairest of them all", no?

VCTR: It's a blank wall.

Q: A blank wall.
[Video footage ends]

VCTR: That's very entertaining to have
a guru as mirror

and a wall is a wall

and the wall is not a wall,

and your projection can be reflected
in the mirror.

And you can entertain

sevenfold,

tenfold, you know,

if you see yourself

reflecting one mirror after
another mirror,

you see whole corridor,

whole corridor,

whole hallway

of each other reflecting each other so

you never see the end of it.

But in this case we are talking about

solid concrete wall.

The way it reflects.

That something can bounce back

rather than something you can actually

watch.

As a cinema screen.

Q: Thank you.

VCTR: You're welcome.

Okay, that ends tonight's

DDT or whatever we have here.
[Laughs, laughter]

What's the proper way to say?

Speaker: ATS

VCTR: ATS. Right. [Laughs, laughter]

Well, good night.

And I would like you to also be encouraged

to practice and sit a lot during
this discipline.

If you don't do that

nothing will happen.

And particularly [laughter]

particularly I'm referring to those people
who are

sort of simply guests or whatever you have

and simply just

onlookers,

watch,

watching what's happening.

Just sort of psyching the scene,
so to speak.

But you maybe no able to

anything out of it.

Except a complete distortion of
what we're doing.

So sitting practice of meditation
is extremely important.

And extremely powerful. And

there are some

meditation teachers provided
for your sake

and everything is settled in that area,
is it?

With meditation teachers and everything.

Okay. Well,

let's see each other

the day after tomorrow, I suppose.

And...

tomorrow?

Okay, tomorrow.

See you again.

Thank you.