Eyewitness Testimony Part 1
-
0:02 - 0:04>>[Leslie Stahl] It's a
cliche of courtroom dramas: -
0:04 - 0:08that moment when the eyewitness
is asked, "do you see the person -
0:08 - 0:11who committed the crime here
in this courtroom before you?" -
0:11 - 0:14Well, it happens in real
courtrooms all the time. -
0:14 - 0:19And to jurors, that point of the
finger by a confident witness is -
0:19 - 0:21about as damning as
evidence can get. -
0:21 - 0:23But there is one type
-
0:23 - 0:25of evidence that's
even more persuasive -
0:25 - 0:27and that, of course, is DNA.
-
0:27 - 0:31There have been 233
people exonerated by DNA -
0:31 - 0:35in this country, and now a
stunning pattern has emerged. -
0:36 - 0:38More than three quarters of
them were sent to prison, -
0:38 - 0:42at least in part, because an
eyewitness pointed a finger, -
0:42 - 0:46an eyewitness who we
now know was wrong. -
0:47 - 0:50(chirping)
-
0:50 - 0:51It was hot and
humid in Burlington, -
0:51 - 0:56North Carolina on the
night of July 28, 1984. -
0:57 - 1:01Jennifer Thompson, then a
22-year-old college student, -
1:01 - 1:04had gone to bed early in
her off-campus apartment. -
1:04 - 1:09As she slept, a man shattered the
lightbulb near her back door, -
1:09 - 1:12cut her phone line and broke in.
-
1:12 - 1:15>>[Thompson] I remember kind of waking
up and turning my head to the side -
1:15 - 1:17and saying, "who's
there, who is it?" -
1:17 - 1:20And I saw the top of
someone's head kind of -
1:20 - 1:23sliding beside my mattress.
-
1:23 - 1:26And I screamed and I felt
a blade go to my throat. -
1:26 - 1:28>>[Stahl] A knife?
>>[Thompson] A knife. -
1:28 - 1:30And he told me to shut up
or he was going to kill me. -
1:31 - 1:32>>[Stahl] Her first thought was
-
1:32 - 1:35to offer him anything
she had to go away. -
1:35 - 1:37>>[Thompson] You can have my credit
card, you can have my wallet, -
1:37 - 1:39you can have anything
in the apartment. -
1:39 - 1:41You can have my car.
-
1:41 - 1:44And he looked at me and said,
"I don't want your money." -
1:44 - 1:47And I knew what was
getting ready to happen. -
1:47 - 1:50>>[Stahl] She vowed to stay
alert and study him so that -
1:50 - 1:54if she lived she could
help put him away forever. -
1:54 - 1:57>>[Thompson] What is his voice,
does he have an accent? -
1:57 - 1:58Does he have a scar?
-
1:58 - 1:59Is there a tattoo?
-
1:59 - 2:02>>[Stahl] He's raping you and
you're studying his face? -
2:02 - 2:05>>[Thompson] It was just trying
to pay attention to a detail -
2:05 - 2:08that if I survived,
and that was my plan, -
2:08 - 2:11I'd be able to help
the police catch him. -
2:11 - 2:14>>[Stahl] After about half an hour
Jennifer tricked the rapist -
2:14 - 2:17into letting her get
up and fix him a drink, -
2:17 - 2:19and she ran out the back door.
-
2:19 - 2:23He fled and raped a second
woman half a mile away. -
2:24 - 2:27Detective Mike Gauldin met
Jennifer at the hospital. -
2:27 - 2:30>>[Gauldin] The first comment I
remember her making was that "I'm going -
2:30 - 2:32to get this guy that
did this to me." -
2:32 - 2:35She said "I took the
time to look at him. -
2:35 - 2:39I will be able to identify him
if I'm given an opportunity." -
2:39 - 2:41>>[Stahl] Detective Gauldin
worked with Jennifer -
2:41 - 2:45to make a composite sketch
pouring over eyes, noses, ears, -
2:45 - 2:49lips--trying to recreate the
face she had seen that night. -
2:49 - 2:53The sketch went out and
tips started coming in. -
2:53 - 2:56One of those tips was about a
young man named Ronald Cotton -
2:56 - 3:00who worked at a restaurant
near the scene of both rapes -
3:00 - 3:04and had a record, a guilty
plea to breaking and entering, -
3:04 - 3:08and as a teenager
to sexual assault. -
3:08 - 3:11Three days after the rape
Mike Gauldin called Jennifer in -
3:11 - 3:13to do a photo lineup.
-
3:13 - 3:16He lay these six pictures
down on the table, -
3:16 - 3:19said the perpetrator may
or may not be one of them, -
3:19 - 3:21and told her to take her time.
-
3:22 - 3:25Did she say immediately
"that's him"? -
3:25 - 3:29>[Gauldin] No. She studied
each photograph. -
3:29 - 3:33>>[Thompson] I can remember almost
feeling like I was in an SAT test -
3:33 - 3:35where you start narrowing
down your choices. -
3:35 - 3:37You can discount A and B.
-
3:37 - 3:39>>[Stahl] Oh, like multiple choice.
>>[Thompson] Exactly. -
3:39 - 3:41>>[Stahl] According to the police
report, Jennifer studied the -
3:41 - 3:43pictures for five minutes.
-
3:43 - 3:45>>[Gauldin] She picked
up Ron's photograph -
3:45 - 3:47and said that's the
man who raped me. -
3:47 - 3:50>>[Stahl] And you must have said,
"Are you sure?" and she said yes? -
3:50 - 3:51>>[Gauldin] Yeah, oh yes, certainly.
-
3:51 - 3:55>>[Stahl] Ronald Cotton heard the
news from his mother's boyfriend. -
3:55 - 3:58>>[Cotton] He told me, he said, "Ron,
the police are looking for you." -
3:58 - 4:02And I said for what?
And he told me for rape. -
4:02 - 4:04I said I didn't commit
such a crime like that. -
4:04 - 4:06>>[Stahl] Did you panic?
>>[Cotton] I didn't panic. -
4:06 - 4:08I'm trying to figure out why.
-
4:08 - 4:12>>[Gauldin] He comes in and gives
me a very detailed account -
4:12 - 4:15of where he was, who
he was with that night. -
4:15 - 4:19As it turns out that
was a false alibi. -
4:19 - 4:23>>[Cotton] I realized later that
I had got my weekends confused, -
4:23 - 4:26and so therefore I
gave him the reason -
4:26 - 4:27to think that I was lying.
-
4:27 - 4:30>>[Stahl] This was August 1, 1984.
>>[Cotton] Right. -
4:30 - 4:32>>[Stahl] You go in
to clear yourself. -
4:32 - 4:34When did you actually leave?
-
4:34 - 4:36>>[Cotton] I didn't.
-
4:36 - 4:41>>[Stahl] He was locked up and days
later put in a physical lineup. -
4:41 - 4:43>>[Cotton] I'm number five.
>>[Stahl] Are you scared? -
4:43 - 4:44>>[Cotton] I was very
scared, nervous. -
4:44 - 4:47I was so nervous
I was trembling. -
4:47 - 4:50You know, I felt my
body just shaking. -
4:50 - 4:53>>[Gauldin] They were asked to step
forward, speak and step back. -
4:53 - 4:56>>[Thompson] I can remember looking
to the detective and saying "it's -
4:56 - 4:59between four and five, can
I have them do it again?" -
4:59 - 5:04>>[Stahl] And then she knew it
was number five, Ronald Cotton. -
5:04 - 5:05>>[Stahl] Did you feel
absolutely certain? -
5:05 - 5:07>>[Thompson] Absolutely certain.
-
5:07 - 5:08>>[Stahl] Did anybody say
to you, "good job?" -
5:08 - 5:10>>[Thompson] Well, what was said
-
5:10 - 5:13to me afterwards was, "that's
the same person you picked -
5:13 - 5:14out in the photo lineup."
-
5:14 - 5:19So in my mind I thought
bingo, I did it right. -
5:21 - 5:22I did it right.
-
5:22 - 5:25>>[Stahl] In a week-long
trial the jury heard -
5:25 - 5:28about Ronald Cotton's
faulty alibi, his clothing -
5:28 - 5:31that matched Jennifer's
description, -
5:31 - 5:34and a piece of foam found on
her floor that seemed to come -
5:34 - 5:36from one of his shoes.
-
5:36 - 5:39And most powerfully they
heard from Jennifer. -
5:39 - 5:43>>[Stahl] When they ask you, "do you
recognize the man who did this -
5:43 - 5:45to you?"--did you point to him?
-
5:45 - 5:47>>[Thompson] Oh, absolutely.
>>[Stahl] It was Ronald Cotton? -
5:47 - 5:48>>[Thompson] It was Ronald Cotton.
-
5:48 - 5:50>>[Cotton] She pointed a finger
-
5:50 - 5:52and that's all it
takes it seemed like. -
5:52 - 5:55>>[Stahl] What did
that feel like? -
5:55 - 5:57>>[Cotton] It felt like someone
pushing a knife through me. -
5:57 - 6:00>>[Stahl] It took the
jury just 40 minutes. -
6:00 - 6:03The verdict: guilty
on all counts. -
6:03 - 6:06>>[Thompson] And he was sentenced
to life and 50 years. -
6:06 - 6:09And it was for me that
moment that you know -
6:10 - 6:14that the justice system
works because I am the victim -
6:14 - 6:16and he is a horrible person
-
6:16 - 6:18and he will never,
ever be free again. -
6:19 - 6:22>>[Stahl] Ronald Cotton was
handcuffed, shackled and taken -
6:22 - 6:25to North Carolina's
Central Prison. -
6:25 - 6:27He was 22-years-old.
-
6:27 - 6:30>>[Cotton] You know they say grown
men don't cry but that's a lie. -
6:30 - 6:31I grabbed my pillow many times
-
6:31 - 6:34and hugged it wishing
I was hugging my mom, -
6:34 - 6:35my dad, sister, brother.
-
6:35 - 6:37I wish it didn't
have to be this way. -
6:37 - 6:40(Background Singing)
>>[Stahl] He started working -
6:40 - 6:44in the prison kitchen, singing
in the choir and writing letter -
6:44 - 6:49after letter to his attorneys
hoping to get a new trial. -
6:49 - 6:53Then one day as he watched
a new inmate being brought in -
6:53 - 6:55he had a strange feeling.
-
6:55 - 6:58>>[Cotton] I said, "excuse me,
you look familiar." -
6:58 - 7:00I said, "where are you from?"
-
7:00 - 7:02He said, "I'm from Burlington."
I said, "I am, too." -
7:02 - 7:05I said, "you kind of resemble the
drawing of a suspect in a crime -
7:05 - 7:07of which I'm falsely imprisoned for.
"Did you commit this crime?" -
7:07 - 7:10And he told me no he did not.
>>[Stahl] Wait a sec. -
7:10 - 7:13You saw him and thought
of that composite drawing? -
7:13 - 7:14>>[Cotton] Mmm-hmm.
-
7:14 - 7:18>>[Stahl] His name was Bobby
Poole, and he was in for rape. -
7:18 - 7:21He started working in
the prison kitchen too. -
7:21 - 7:24>>[Cotton] The stewards were calling
me Poole instead of Cotton. -
7:24 - 7:25>>[Stahl] They were
calling you by his name? -
7:25 - 7:26>>[Cotton] Yes.
-
7:26 - 7:28>>[Stahl] In other words people
were mistaking the two of you. -
7:28 - 7:30>>[Cotton] Yes, exactly.
-
7:30 - 7:32>>[Stahl] Then a fellow
inmate told him -
7:32 - 7:35that he'd heard Bobby Poole
admit to raping Jennifer -
7:35 - 7:38and the other woman that night.
-
7:38 - 7:40Ronald Cotton won a new trial,
-
7:40 - 7:43and his lawyers called
Bobby Poole to the stand -
7:43 - 7:46with Jennifer sitting
right there. -
7:46 - 7:49It was the moment Ronald
Cotton had been hoping for. -
7:49 - 7:52Bobby Poole is in the courtroom.
-
7:52 - 7:54You look over there.
-
7:54 - 7:57What happens inside you?
>>[Thompson] Nothing. -
7:57 - 7:58>>[Stahl] Nothing?
>>[Thompson] Nothing. -
7:58 - 8:01As a matter of -- the strongest
emotion I felt was anger -
8:01 - 8:05at the defense because
I thought how dare you? -
8:05 - 8:07How dare you question me?
-
8:07 - 8:10How dare you try to
paint me as someone -
8:10 - 8:14who could possibly have
forgotten what my rapist looked -
8:14 - 8:17like, I mean the one person
you would never forget. -
8:17 - 8:19How dare you?
-
8:19 - 8:22>>[Stahl] Ronald Cotton was
convicted again this time given -
8:22 - 8:24two life sentences.
-
8:24 - 8:29Back in prison seven years later
he and everyone else was riveted -
8:29 - 8:32by a big news story, the
trial of O.J. Simpson. -
8:32 - 8:35>>[Cotton] I would get my radio
and put my earplugs in, -
8:35 - 8:37and go outside, and
sit in a corner. -
8:37 - 8:39>>[Stahl] And listen to the trial?
>>[Cotton] Yeah. -
8:39 - 8:43>>[Stahl] He was intrigued by
something he had never heard of: DNA. -
8:43 - 8:47He wrote to his new attorney,
law professor Rich Rosen. -
8:47 - 8:50Rosen warned him that there
probably wasn't any evidence -
8:50 - 8:56left to test, and if there
was, DNA could cut both ways. -
8:56 - 9:00>>[Rosen] Understand if the
DNA comes back and shows -
9:00 - 9:03that you did this crime,
-
9:03 - 9:06whatever legal issues we have
don't make any bit of difference. -
9:06 - 9:08You're going to spend the
rest of your life in prison. -
9:08 - 9:12>>[Stahl] He warned you that if it
comes up positive, you're sunk. -
9:12 - 9:15>>[Cotton] I told him to put his
foot down and go with it. -
9:15 - 9:17>>[Stahl] Packed away on the shelves
-
9:17 - 9:19of the Burlington Police
Department was 10-year-old -
9:20 - 9:22evidence from the
two rapes that night. -
9:22 - 9:25Inside one of the rape
kits was a fragment -
9:25 - 9:29of a single sperm
with viable DNA. -
9:29 - 9:32It proved what Ronald Cotton
had been saying all along, -
9:32 - 9:36he was innocent, and the
rapist was Bobby Poole. -
9:36 - 9:39(applause)
-
9:39 - 9:42Within days, Ronald
Cotton was back in court. -
9:42 - 9:45>>[judge] You're walking out of
here today as a free man. -
9:45 - 9:48>>[Stahl] This time to be released.
-
9:49 - 9:53So not only do you find out
that Ron didn't do the crime, -
9:53 - 9:56you find out Bobby Poole did.
-
9:56 - 9:58>>[Gauldin] It was just utter
shock, really, disbelief. -
9:58 - 10:02I mean, by this time
this is 11 years later. -
10:03 - 10:09And, you know, I know that
I've been involved in a case -
10:09 - 10:12where a man has lost
11 years of his life. -
10:12 - 10:16And I was so sad for
him and his family. -
10:16 - 10:18>>[Stahl] In the years since
Ronald Cotton's conviction, -
10:18 - 10:21Jennifer had married
and had children. -
10:21 - 10:22Are you the one
that tells her? -
10:22 - 10:25>>[Gauldin] Yes. Her reaction
"no, that can't be true. -
10:25 - 10:26It's not possible."
-
10:26 - 10:29You know, "I know
Ronald Cotton raped me. -
10:29 - 10:30There's no question in my mind."
-
10:30 - 10:33>>[Thompson] It was like someone
had just taken my life and, like, -
10:33 - 10:35turned it upside down.
>>[Stahl] Did she cry? -
10:35 - 10:37>>[Gauldin] Oh, she cried.
She broke down. -
10:37 - 10:42I mean, she took it all on
herself, you know, the guilt, -
10:42 - 10:45you know, "I did this
to that man." -
10:45 - 10:47>>[Stahl] Shame?
-
10:47 - 10:52>>[Thompson] Shame, terrible shame,
a suffocating, debilitating shame. -
10:53 - 10:56>>[Stahl] But when she thought
or dreamed about that night, -
10:56 - 10:59it was still Ronald
Cotton's face she saw. -
10:59 - 11:02To get past it, she
asked if he would meet -
11:02 - 11:04with her at a local church.
-
11:04 - 11:07>>[Thompson] I remember him
walking into the church, -
11:07 - 11:10and I physically
could not stand up. -
11:10 - 11:12>>[Cotton] She was nervous, scared.
-
11:12 - 11:15>>[Thompson] I started
to cry immediately. -
11:15 - 11:21And I looked at him, and I said,
"Ron, if I spent every second -
11:21 - 11:23of every minute of
every hour for the rest -
11:23 - 11:26of my life telling you how sorry
I am, it wouldn't come close -
11:26 - 11:29to how my heart feels.
I'm so sorry." -
11:29 - 11:31And Ronald just leaned
down, he took my hands. -
11:31 - 11:32>>[Stahl] Oh gosh.
-
11:32 - 11:35>>[Thompson] And he looked at me,
he said, "I forgive you." -
11:36 - 11:39>>[Cotton] I told her, I said,
"Jennifer, I forgive you." -
11:40 - 11:43"I don't want you to
look over your shoulder." -
11:43 - 11:47"I just want us to be
happy and move on in life." -
11:47 - 11:49>>[Thompson] The minute
he forgave me it's -
11:49 - 11:53like my heart physically
started to heal. -
11:54 - 11:58And I thought this is what
grace and mercy is all about. -
11:58 - 12:02This is what they teach you in
church that none of us ever get. -
12:02 - 12:06And here was this man
that I had hated with... -
12:06 - 12:09I mean I used to pray
every day of my life -
12:09 - 12:12during those 11 years
that he would die. -
12:12 - 12:15That he would be raped in prison
-
12:15 - 12:17and someone would
kill him in prison. -
12:17 - 12:19That was my prayer to God.
-
12:19 - 12:25And here was this man who with
grace and mercy just forgave me. -
12:26 - 12:29>>[Stahl] That is overwhelming,
it's overwhelming. -
12:29 - 12:33>>[Thompson] Yeah, how wrong
I was and how good he is. -
12:34 - 12:37>>[Stahl] How is it that Jennifer
could have studied her rapist -
12:37 - 12:39so carefully and still
made this mistake? -
12:40 - 12:43And how could she have failed
to recognize Bobby Poole, -
12:43 - 12:46the actual rapist, when he
sat right in front of her -
12:46 - 12:48in the courtroom
three years later? -
12:48 - 12:50That part of the story
when we come back. -
12:52 - 12:56(Clock Ticking)
- Title:
- Eyewitness Testimony Part 1
- Description:
-
Lesley Stahl reports on flaws in eyewitness testimony that are at the heart of the DNA exonerations of falsely convicted people like Ronald Cotton, who has now forgiven his accuser, Jennifer Thompson.
- Video Language:
- English
- Duration:
- 13:01
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minnalipner edited English subtitles for Eyewitness Testimony Part 1 |