A critical look at geoengineering against climate change
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0:00 - 0:03You've all seen lots of articles on climate change,
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0:03 - 0:05and here's yet another New York Times article,
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0:05 - 0:07just like every other darn one you've seen.
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0:07 - 0:09It says all the same stuff as all the other ones you've seen.
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0:09 - 0:12It even has the same amount of headline as all the other ones you've seen.
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0:12 - 0:16What's unusual about this one, maybe, is that it's from 1953.
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0:16 - 0:18And the reason I'm saying this
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0:18 - 0:20is that you may have the idea this problem is relatively recent.
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0:20 - 0:23That people have just sort of figured out about it, and now
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0:23 - 0:26with Kyoto and the Governator and people beginning to actually do something,
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0:26 - 0:29we may be on the road to a solution.
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0:29 - 0:32The fact is -- uh-uh.
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0:32 - 0:37We've known about this problem for 50 years, depending on how you count it.
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0:37 - 0:39We have talked about it endlessly over the last decade or so.
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0:39 - 0:42And we've accomplished close to zip.
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0:42 - 0:45This is the growth rate of CO2 in the atmosphere.
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0:45 - 0:47You've seen this in various forms,
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0:47 - 0:49but maybe you haven't seen this one.
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0:49 - 0:52What this shows is that the rate of growth of our emissions is accelerating.
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0:52 - 0:54And that it's accelerating even faster
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0:54 - 0:58than what we thought was the worst case just a few years back.
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0:58 - 1:01So that red line there was something that a lot of skeptics said
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1:01 - 1:03the environmentalists only put in the projections
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1:03 - 1:06to make the projections look as bad as possible,
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1:06 - 1:09that emissions would never grow as fast as that red line.
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1:09 - 1:11But in fact, they're growing faster.
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1:11 - 1:14Here's some data from actually just 10 days ago,
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1:14 - 1:19which shows this year's minimum of the Arctic Sea ice, and it's the lowest by far.
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1:19 - 1:24And the rate at which the Arctic Sea ice is going away is a lot quicker than models.
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1:24 - 1:27So despite all sorts of experts like me flying around the planet and
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1:27 - 1:30burning jet fuel, and politicians signing treaties --
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1:30 - 1:33in fact, you could argue the net effect of all this has been negative,
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1:33 - 1:36because it's just consumed a lot of jet fuel. (Laughter)
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1:36 - 1:41No, no! In terms of what we really need to do to put the brakes on
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1:41 - 1:45this very high inertial thing -- our big economy -- we've really hardly started.
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1:45 - 1:52Really, we're doing this, basically. Really, not very much.
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1:52 - 1:54I don't want to depress you too much.
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1:54 - 1:59The problem is absolutely soluble, and even soluble in a way that's reasonably cheap.
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1:59 - 2:04Cheap meaning sort of the cost of the military, not the cost of medical care.
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2:04 - 2:08Cheap meaning a few percent of GDP.
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2:08 - 2:10No, this is really important to have this sense of scale.
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2:10 - 2:14So the problem is soluble, and the way we should go about solving it is, say,
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2:14 - 2:16dealing with electricity production,
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2:16 - 2:20which causes something like 43-or-so percent and rising of CO2 emissions.
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2:20 - 2:23And we could do that by perfectly sensible things like conservation,
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2:23 - 2:27and wind power, nuclear power and coal to CO2 capture,
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2:27 - 2:32which are all things that are ready for giant scale deployment, and work.
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2:32 - 2:37All we lack is the action to actually spend the money to put those into place.
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2:37 - 2:39Instead, we spend our time talking.
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2:39 - 2:42But nevertheless, that's not what I'm going to talk to you about tonight.
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2:42 - 2:46What I'm going to talk to you about tonight is stuff we might do if we did nothing.
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2:46 - 2:50And it's this stuff in the middle here, which is what you do
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2:50 - 2:53if you don't stop the emissions quickly enough.
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2:53 - 2:56And you need to deal -- somehow break the link between human actions
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2:56 - 3:00that change climate, and the climate change itself. And that's particularly important
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3:00 - 3:03because, of course, while we can adapt to climate change --
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3:03 - 3:06and it's important to be honest here, there will be some benefits to climate change.
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3:06 - 3:09Oh, yes, I think it's bad. I've spent my whole life working to stop it.
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3:09 - 3:13But one of the reasons it's politically hard is there are winners and losers -- not all losers.
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3:13 - 3:16But, of course, the natural world, polar bears.
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3:16 - 3:19I spent time skiing across the sea ice for weeks at a time in the high Arctic.
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3:19 - 3:21They will completely lose.
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3:21 - 3:23And there's no adaption.
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3:23 - 3:24So this problem is absolutely soluble.
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3:24 - 3:27This geo-engineering idea, in it's simplest form, is basically the following.
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3:27 - 3:32You could put signed particles, say sulfuric acid particles -- sulfates --
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3:32 - 3:34into the upper atmosphere, the stratosphere,
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3:34 - 3:36where they'd reflect away sunlight and cool the planet.
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3:36 - 3:39And I know for certain that that will work.
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3:39 - 3:42Not that there aren't side effects, but I know for certain it will work.
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3:42 - 3:44And the reason is, it's been done.
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3:44 - 3:47And it was done not by us, not by me, but by nature.
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3:47 - 3:50Here's Mount Pinatubo in the early '90s. That put a whole bunch of sulfur
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3:50 - 3:54in the stratosphere with a sort of atomic bomb-like cloud.
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3:54 - 3:57The result of that was pretty dramatic.
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3:57 - 4:00After that, and some previous volcanoes we have, you see
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4:00 - 4:02a quite dramatic cooling of the atmosphere.
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4:02 - 4:05So this lower bar is the upper atmosphere, the stratosphere,
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4:05 - 4:07and it heats up after these volcanoes.
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4:07 - 4:09But you'll notice that in the upper bar, which is the lower atmosphere
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4:09 - 4:13and the surface, it cools down because we shielded the atmosphere a little bit.
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4:13 - 4:15There's no big mystery about it.
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4:15 - 4:18There's lots of mystery in the details, and there's some bad side effects,
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4:18 - 4:21like it partially destroys the ozone layer -- and I'll get to that in a minute.
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4:21 - 4:23But it clearly cools down.
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4:23 - 4:26And one other thing: it's fast.
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4:26 - 4:29It's really important to say. So much of the other things that we ought to do,
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4:29 - 4:34like slowing emissions, are intrinsically slow, because it takes time
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4:34 - 4:37to build all the hardware we need to reduce emissions.
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4:37 - 4:40And not only that, when you cut emissions, you don't cut concentrations,
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4:40 - 4:42because concentrations, the amount of CO2 in the air,
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4:42 - 4:44is the sum of emissions over time.
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4:44 - 4:46So you can't step on the brakes very quickly.
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4:46 - 4:48But if you do this, it's quick.
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4:48 - 4:51And there are times you might like to do something quick.
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4:51 - 4:54Another thing you might wonder about is, does it work?
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4:54 - 4:58Can you shade some sunlight and effectively compensate for the added CO2,
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4:58 - 5:01and produce a climate sort of back to what it was originally?
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5:01 - 5:03And the answer seems to be yes.
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5:03 - 5:06So here are the graphs you've seen lots of times before.
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5:06 - 5:09That's what the world looks like, under one particular climate model's view,
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5:09 - 5:11with twice the amount of CO2 in the air.
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5:11 - 5:15The lower graph is with twice the amount of CO2 and 1.8 percent less sunlight,
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5:15 - 5:17and you're back to the original climate.
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5:17 - 5:20And this graph from Ken Caldeira. It's important to say came, because
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5:20 - 5:23Ken -- at a meeting that I believe Marty Hoffart was also at in the mid-'90s --
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5:23 - 5:26Ken and I stood up at the back of the meeting and said,
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5:26 - 5:28"Geo-engineering won't work."
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5:28 - 5:30And to the person who was promoting it said,
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5:30 - 5:32"The atmosphere's much more complicated."
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5:32 - 5:35Gave a bunch of physical reasons why it wouldn't do a very good compensation.
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5:35 - 5:38Ken went and ran his models, and found that it did.
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5:38 - 5:40This topic is also old.
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5:40 - 5:43That report that landed on President Johnson's desk when I was two years old --
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5:43 - 5:451965.
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5:45 - 5:47That report, in fact, which had all the modern climate science --
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5:47 - 5:50the only thing they talked about doing was geo-engineering.
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5:50 - 5:52It didn't even talk about cutting emissions,
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5:52 - 5:55which is an incredible shift in our thinking about this problem.
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5:55 - 5:57I'm not saying we shouldn't cut emissions.
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5:57 - 6:00We should, but it made exactly this point.
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6:00 - 6:02So, in a sense, there's not much new.
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6:02 - 6:04The one new thing is this essay.
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6:04 - 6:08So I should say, I guess, that since the time of that original President Johnson report,
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6:08 - 6:11and the various reports of the U.S. National Academy --
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6:11 - 6:141977, 1982, 1990 -- people always talked about this idea.
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6:14 - 6:17Not as something that was foolproof, but as an idea to think about.
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6:17 - 6:21But when climate became, politically, a hot topic -- if I may make the pun --
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6:21 - 6:27in the last 15 years, this became so un-PC, we couldn't talk about it.
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6:27 - 6:31It just sunk below the surface. We weren't allowed to speak about it.
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6:31 - 6:34But in the last year, Paul Crutzen published this essay
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6:34 - 6:37saying roughly what's all been said before: that maybe, given our very slow rate
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6:37 - 6:40of progress in solving this problem and the uncertain impacts,
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6:40 - 6:42we should think about things like this.
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6:42 - 6:44He said roughly what's been said before.
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6:44 - 6:47The big deal was he happened to have won the Nobel prize for ozone chemistry.
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6:47 - 6:49And so people took him seriously when he said we should think about this,
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6:49 - 6:51even though there will be some ozone impacts.
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6:51 - 6:53And in fact, he had some ideas to make them go away.
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6:53 - 6:55There was all sorts of press coverage, all over the world,
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6:55 - 6:59going right down to "Dr. Strangelove Saves the Earth," from the Economist.
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6:59 - 7:02And that got me thinking. I've worked on this topic on and off,
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7:02 - 7:05but not so much technically. And I was actually lying in bed thinking one night.
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7:05 - 7:09And I thought about this child's toy -- hence, the title of my talk --
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7:09 - 7:12and I wondered if you could use the same physics that makes that thing spin 'round
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7:12 - 7:16in the child's radiometer, to levitate particles into the upper atmosphere
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7:16 - 7:18and make them stay there.
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7:18 - 7:20One of the problems with sulfates is they fall out quickly.
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7:20 - 7:22The other problem is they're right in the ozone layer,
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7:22 - 7:24and I'd prefer them above the ozone layer.
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7:24 - 7:26And it turns out, I woke up the next morning, and I started to calculate this.
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7:26 - 7:29It was very hard to calculate from first principles. I was stumped.
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7:29 - 7:32But then I found out that there were all sorts of papers already published
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7:32 - 7:35that addressed this topic because it happens already in the natural atmosphere.
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7:35 - 7:37So it seems there are already fine particles
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7:37 - 7:41that are levitated up to what we call the mesosphere, about 100 kilometers up,
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7:41 - 7:43that already have this effect.
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7:43 - 7:45I'll tell you very quickly how the effect works.
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7:45 - 7:47There are a lot of fun complexities
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7:47 - 7:49that I'd love to spend the whole evening on, but I won't.
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7:49 - 7:52But let's say you have sunlight hitting some particle and it's unevenly heated.
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7:52 - 7:54So the side facing the sun is warmer; the side away, cooler.
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7:54 - 7:57Gas molecules that bounce off the warm side
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7:57 - 8:01bounce away with some extra velocity because it's warm.
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8:01 - 8:03And so you see a net force away from the sun.
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8:03 - 8:05That's called the photophoretic force.
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8:05 - 8:09There are a bunch of other versions of it that I and some collaborators
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8:09 - 8:11have thought about how to exploit.
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8:11 - 8:13And of course, we may be wrong --
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8:13 - 8:15this hasn't all been peer reviewed, we're in the middle of thinking about it --
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8:15 - 8:17but so far, it seems good.
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8:17 - 8:20But it looks like we could achieve long atmospheric lifetimes --
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8:20 - 8:23much longer than before -- because they're levitated.
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8:23 - 8:25We can move things out of the stratosphere into the mesosphere,
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8:25 - 8:28in principle solving the ozone problem.
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8:28 - 8:30I'm sure there will be other problems that arise.
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8:30 - 8:33Finally, we could make the particles migrate to over the poles,
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8:33 - 8:37so we could arrange the climate engineering so it really focused on the poles.
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8:37 - 8:40Which would have minimal bad impacts in the middle of the planet,
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8:40 - 8:44where we live, and do the maximum job of what we might need to do,
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8:44 - 8:48which is cooling the poles in case of planetary emergency, if you like.
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8:48 - 8:50This is a new idea that's crept up that may be, essentially,
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8:50 - 8:52a cleverer idea than putting sulfates in.
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8:52 - 8:56Whether this idea is right or some other idea is right,
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8:56 - 8:58I think it's almost certain we will
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8:58 - 9:01eventually think of cleverer things to do than just putting sulfur in.
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9:01 - 9:04That if engineers and scientists really turned their minds to this,
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9:04 - 9:07it's amazing how we can affect the planet.
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9:07 - 9:11The one thing about this is it gives us extraordinary leverage.
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9:11 - 9:14This improved science and engineering will, whether we like it or not,
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9:14 - 9:17give us more and more leverage to affect the planet,
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9:17 - 9:19to control the planet,
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9:19 - 9:23to give us weather and climate control -- not because we plan it,
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9:23 - 9:26not because we want it, just because science delivers it to us bit by bit,
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9:26 - 9:28with better knowledge of the way the system works
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9:28 - 9:30and better engineering tools to effect it.
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9:32 - 9:36Now, suppose that space aliens arrived.
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9:36 - 9:38Maybe they're going to land at the U.N. headquarters down the road here,
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9:38 - 9:40or maybe they'll pick a smarter spot --
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9:40 - 9:43but suppose they arrive and they give you a box.
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9:43 - 9:47And the box has two knobs.
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9:47 - 9:49One knob is the knob for controlling global temperature.
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9:49 - 9:51Maybe another knob is a knob for controlling CO2 concentrations.
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9:51 - 9:55You might imagine that we would fight wars over that box.
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9:55 - 9:58Because we have no way to agree about where to set the knobs.
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9:58 - 10:00We have no global governance.
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10:00 - 10:02And different people will have different places they want it set.
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10:02 - 10:06Now, I don't think that's going to happen. It's not very likely.
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10:06 - 10:10But we're building that box.
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10:10 - 10:12The scientists and engineers of the world
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10:12 - 10:14are building it piece by piece, in their labs.
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10:14 - 10:16Even when they're doing it for other reasons.
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10:16 - 10:19Even when they're thinking they're just working on protecting the environment.
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10:19 - 10:21They have no interest in crazy ideas like engineering the whole planet.
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10:21 - 10:25They develop science that makes it easier and easier to do.
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10:25 - 10:28And so I guess my view on this is not that I want to do it -- I do not --
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10:28 - 10:33but that we should move this out of the shadows and talk about it seriously.
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10:33 - 10:36Because sooner or later, we'll be confronted with decisions about this,
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10:36 - 10:39and it's better if we think hard about it,
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10:39 - 10:43even if we want to think hard about reasons why we should never do it.
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10:43 - 10:49I'll give you two different ways to think about this problem that are the beginning
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10:49 - 10:51of my thinking about how to think about it.
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10:51 - 10:54But what we need is not just a few oddballs like me thinking about this.
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10:54 - 10:56We need a broader debate.
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10:56 - 11:00A debate that involves musicians, scientists, philosophers, writers,
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11:00 - 11:03who get engaged with this question about climate engineering
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11:03 - 11:06and think seriously about what its implications are.
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11:06 - 11:08So here's one way to think about it,
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11:08 - 11:12which is that we just do this instead of cutting emissions because it's cheaper.
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11:12 - 11:15I guess the thing I haven't said about this is, it is absurdly cheap.
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11:15 - 11:19It's conceivable that, say, using the sulfates method or this method I've come up with,
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11:19 - 11:25you could create an ice age at a cost of .001 percent of GDP.
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11:25 - 11:28It's very cheap. We have a lot of leverage.
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11:28 - 11:30It's not a good idea, but it's just important. (Laughter)
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11:30 - 11:33I'll tell you how big the lever is: the lever is that big.
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11:34 - 11:37And that calculation isn't much in dispute.
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11:37 - 11:43You might argue about the sanity of it, but the leverage is real. (Laughter)
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11:45 - 11:47So because of this, we could deal with the problem
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11:47 - 11:52simply by stopping reducing emissions,
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11:52 - 11:54and just as the concentrations go up, we can increase
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11:54 - 11:56the amount of geo-engineering.
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11:56 - 11:59I don't think anybody takes that seriously.
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11:59 - 12:01Because under this scenario, we walk further and further away
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12:01 - 12:03from the current climate.
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12:03 - 12:05We have all sorts of other problems, like ocean acidification
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12:05 - 12:08that come from CO2 in the atmosphere, anyway.
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12:08 - 12:11Nobody but maybe one or two very odd folks really suggest this.
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12:11 - 12:13But here's a case which is harder to reject.
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12:13 - 12:17Let's say that we don't do geo-engineering, we do what we ought to do,
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12:17 - 12:19which is get serious about cutting emissions.
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12:19 - 12:22But we don't really know how quickly we have to cut them.
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12:22 - 12:25There's a lot of uncertainty about exactly how much climate change is too much.
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12:25 - 12:28So let's say that we work hard, and we actually don't just tap the brakes,
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12:28 - 12:31but we step hard on the brakes and really reduce emissions
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12:31 - 12:33and eventually reduce concentrations.
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12:33 - 12:38And maybe someday -- like 2075, October 23 --
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12:38 - 12:41we finally reach that glorious day where concentrations have peaked
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12:41 - 12:43and are rolling down the other side.
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12:43 - 12:46And we have global celebrations, and we've actually started to -- you know,
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12:46 - 12:49we've seen the worst of it.
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12:49 - 12:53But maybe on that day we also find that the Greenland ice sheet
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12:53 - 12:59is really melting unacceptably fast, fast enough to put meters of sea level on
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12:59 - 13:01the oceans in the next 100 years,
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13:01 - 13:03and remove some of the biggest cities from the map.
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13:03 - 13:05That's an absolutely possible scenario.
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13:05 - 13:08We might decide at that point that even though geo-engineering was uncertain
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13:08 - 13:13and morally unhappy, that it's a lot better than not geo-engineering.
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13:13 - 13:15And that's a very different way to look at the problem.
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13:15 - 13:18It's using this as risk control, not instead of action.
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13:18 - 13:21It's saying that you do some geo-engineering for a little while
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13:21 - 13:26to take the worst of the heat off, not that you'd use it as a substitute for action.
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13:26 - 13:28But there is a problem with that view.
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13:28 - 13:30And the problem is the following:
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13:30 - 13:32knowledge that geo-engineering is possible makes
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13:32 - 13:35the climate impacts look less fearsome,
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13:35 - 13:38and that makes a weaker commitment to cutting emissions today.
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13:38 - 13:40This is what economists call a moral hazard.
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13:40 - 13:44And that's one of the fundamental reasons that this problem is so hard to talk about,
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13:44 - 13:46and, in general, I think it's the underlying reason
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13:46 - 13:47that it's been politically unacceptable to talk about this.
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13:47 - 13:51But you don't make good policy by hiding things in a drawer.
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13:51 - 13:54I'll leave you with three questions, and then one final quote.
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13:54 - 13:57Should we do serious research on this topic?
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13:57 - 14:00Should we have a national research program that looks at this?
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14:00 - 14:02Not just at how you would do it better,
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14:02 - 14:04but also what all the risks and downsides of it are.
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14:04 - 14:08Right now, you have a few enthusiasts talking about it, some in a positive side,
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14:08 - 14:11some in a negative side -- but that's a dangerous state to be in
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14:11 - 14:14because there's very little depth of knowledge on this topic.
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14:14 - 14:16A very small amount of money would get us some.
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14:16 - 14:19Many of us -- maybe now me -- think we should do that.
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14:19 - 14:21But I have a lot of reservations.
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14:21 - 14:24My reservations are principally about the moral hazard problem,
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14:24 - 14:28and I don't really know how we can best avoid the moral hazard.
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14:28 - 14:30I think there is a serious problem: as you talk about this,
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14:30 - 14:34people begin to think they don't need to work so hard to cut emissions.
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14:34 - 14:37Another thing is, maybe we need a treaty.
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14:37 - 14:40A treaty that decides who gets to do this.
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14:40 - 14:42Right now we may think of a big, rich country like the U.S. doing this.
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14:42 - 14:46But it might well be that, in fact, if China wakes up in 2030 and realizes
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14:46 - 14:48that the climate impacts are just unacceptable,
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14:48 - 14:52they may not be very interested in our moral conversations about how to do this,
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14:52 - 14:56and they may just decide they'd really rather have a geo-engineered world
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14:56 - 14:59than a non-geo-engineered world.
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14:59 - 15:03And we'll have no international mechanism to figure out who makes the decision.
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15:03 - 15:05So here's one last thought, which was said much, much better
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15:05 - 15:0925 years ago in the U.S. National Academy report than I can say today.
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15:09 - 15:12And I think it really summarizes where we are here.
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15:12 - 15:15That the CO2 problem, the climate problem that we've heard about,
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15:15 - 15:17is driving lots of things -- innovations in the energy technologies
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15:17 - 15:19that will reduce emissions --
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15:19 - 15:24but also, I think, inevitably, it will drive us towards thinking about climate
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15:24 - 15:27and weather control, whether we like it or not.
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15:27 - 15:29And it's time to begin thinking about it,
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15:29 - 15:32even if the reason we're thinking about it is to construct arguments
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15:32 - 15:34for why we shouldn't do it.
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15:34 - 15:35Thank you very much.
- Title:
- A critical look at geoengineering against climate change
- Speaker:
- David Keith
- Description:
-
more » « less
Environmental scientist David Keith proposes a cheap, effective, shocking means to address climate change: What if we injected a huge cloud of ash into the atmosphere to deflect sunlight and heat?
- Video Language:
- English
- Team:
closed TED
- Project:
- TEDTalks
- Duration:
- 15:35
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