Gangaji - Facing Death

Facing death

Conversations with Gangaji

I wanna speak about death

and there're all kinds of deaths,

there's death of every moment

there's death every night when you
drop off into sleep,

there's death when a relationship ends,

there's death when a child leaves home,

but the death I wanna speak about is

physical death,

the end of the physical life form.

That death it is, in our culture at least,

usually most avoided, most denied,

most covered

and as a result of that avoidance and denial
and covering, there is such a huge loss

of the gift, the treasure

that is in death,

so that those words are foreign to most of us.

How can there be a gift in death?

How can there be a treasure in death? We are

so terrified of it and so frightened of being nothing.

How can there be anything there?

Many of you know that Bavo, who's been a Bay Area

host of Satsang for a number of years

died a few days ago.

It was such a treasure, such a gift, being with him

in the weeks before he died,

luckily I got to speak with him the night

before he died the next morining

and in being, sitting with his body,

after he was dead,

so that the abstraction of the talk of death was not

an abstraction, it was present.

It was not a theory about death,

it was the reality of being in the room with death

death approaching, clearly approaching,

and then death here, taking

taking the life form.

And the clear treasure of what remains.

Of what is lost and what is given in death.

And the enormous benefit of those of us

who were willing to be with him in
his suffering, physical suffering,

and to be with him in his death

and the preciousness of his death

because he knew it was coming,

he was not in denial about his death,

doesn't mean he wasn't fighting his disease,

he did fight

until he heard, We lost the fight.

The fight's over.

And the next morning he was dead.

He let go.

So, it's not a question of not fighting the disease,

it's a question of knowing you're fighting
the disease, but death

will come when it comes,

and having the capacity as he had

to meet that.

And in meeting that, to prove that

to all of us, who are willing to witness

that meeting.

So this is absolutely relevant to everyone in this room.

I know that I've been to some, I've seen a couple

of bodies that weren't fixed up with formaldehyde or

I don't know what they inject, maybe it's not

formaldehyde, whatever they put in bodies

to make them look so good after they die,

all pink and rosy

that's one form of death

and you view in the casket

and then you close the casket and you

throw some dirt on the casket,

but this other form of death where the body goes

and nothing is done to the body

it is deathly pale,

it is so clear

that it is not animated

there's no rouge on the cheeks, no lipstick to make

you look like we would like to remember Bavo

just the stark, naked fact of death of the form.

And in willing, the willingness

to be present in that

the absolute, undeniable beauty and presence

of what is eternally alive

what does not need plumping up and fixing

and rouging for its life

so Bavo is gone,

what we knew of the form of Bavo is gone,

it's now cremated and is in ashes,
it's gone

We all will have memories of Bavo

memories of his

sweet personality, of his irritations

the whole realm, but the presence

that animated the form

is the exact same presence that animates your form

that animates all of form.

And to wake up to yourself as that presence

is then the willingness

to meet death in all form

including what you call your own form.

Then it is a joyous meeting,

it is a time of loss because we lose the precious form

either our own bodies, very precious to us

or someone we love, very precious to us

so there's loss

but the joy

of the recognition

that that animation is the presence of truth

it's the presence of God

and that once again

through the gift of the death of the form,

is proved to be eternal.

To be here

I've spent a lot of evenings

and days and mornings

speaking to people about death

and the opportunity to,

that the spiritual path is really a path of death

it's really a path of loss

many people come to the spiritual

world looking for attainment,

but the attainment that is achieved,

the true spiritual attainment that is achieved

is achieved through the loss of awe,

the loss of everything.

Luckily for Bavo

it did not have to wait until disease was taking
his body

to face that loss

through some grace or some luck,

he was able to investigate that loss earlier,

years before

the disease finally took the body,

so that he could die free,

so that he could die at peace.

Losing something very precious

but gaining more in that loss.

I want to invite each of you

this evening, now, this moment

to die.

Body will die

sometime

it's a guarantee of birth.

This night

the opportunity to die before the body dies

to recognize the attachment, the love of the body,

and to let it die.

And in that death

to tell the truth about who you are.

This is Ramana's gift.

This is exactly what occurred for Ramana

as a young teenager,

died before his body died

laid down and faced death

lost everything

in that moment, parents, history, future

future, past,

attainment

losses

Lost both attainment and losses,

everything

and in the willingness

to truly

lose both attainment and loss,

the recognition of who one is

is revealed, was revealed for him,

is revealed for you.

He had many years after that recognition

Tonight if you're willing to stop

for one moment and die,

it is likely you will have at least some moments

some days, some weeks, some years

to see what is life like

when I have died.

What is my life like when there's no me?

What are problems like

when they are not my problems?

Then you can spend the rest of your life
sharing that with all of us.

There is such a hunger, a thirst

for the nectar

that comes from that recognition.

So Bavo in his dying was a gift for us.

The truth is he had been a gift for us
much before that

because he had died before that

so that both his living and his dying

were ultimately, relatively and absolutely

the same gift.

So I would like to assist you in
any way possible [laughing]

in your, there's no assisting really in your
letting go

The assistance is really in discovering

What is the mechanism, mechanism for
holding on?

What is the thought that supports, I can't right now?

Or, Yes, but, what if.

I would like to assist you in stopping that.

In being here,

dead to who you were and dead to who you will be.

My story

includes a

diagnosis of cancer,

and, so, is fear of death

and the unknown

Yes

And I want your help.

What is it that has a diagnosis of cancer?

My body.

That's right. It will die. I don't know if it will
die from cancer, but it will die,

That's a fact that has to be faced

actually, that's the gift of a diagnosis

because most people spend most of their lives

ignoring that fact.

It is a holy fact, it is a divine fact. It is not a mistake.

I chuckled last night

when you talked about luck

because it took me a while to figure that out

but I do feel gratitude.

Isn't that amazing?

I do feel gratitude?

Yes, Because it really pushes up the ante for going
forward

It does.

Yes. You can't hide under our

infantile strategy of denial, our adolescent strategy
of denial, it's Oh, my God

Death, the possibility of death, the reality of
death, if not from this

from something else.

And?

And I don't want to die

[Gangaji laughing]

I want to stay here. I like it here

Yea, Uh-uh. [Gangaji laughing]

Where is here? What do you mean when you say here?

Well, I love my life, I love my family.

I have a husband that I adore.

They're gonna die too, you know?

And my kids.

They're gonna all die.

And in fact each night when you go to
sleep, they all die, and you die.

Do you love that too?

Do you like deep sleep?

Oh, yes.

[laughter]

Oh, yes. I do. I do. And

No husband there, no kids there, no you there.

[laughing]

No you you think yourself as you.

[laughing]

Right?

Right.

Right.

What is there? In deep sleep?

Oh, for me I get a lot of my answers there

many answers to many of my questions.

I take them with me to my sleeping.

And what happens to the questions in deep sleep?

ooh,

I mean the deepest sleep.

They disappear.

Right.

Answers too, right?

That's the answer [both laughing]

Hmm

So, it's quite wondrous, you know, this experience

this conscious experience of an incarnation and

realization that death is at the end of this
incarnation, just as birth was

at the beginning, but that also death is all the way
through

and by that death, I mean the death that you
experience every night

when you're lucky enough to go into deep sleep

and even the death that is experienced

during the day when there's a moment of

no question, no answer

no you, no me, no it, no them

that's a death

and the sexual death that everybody worships, the
orgasm

[laughter]

that's a death

In that moment, no tension, no body, just presence

just love, just peace, the deep sleep is the
peace of peace

the resting in peace

that we even speak of on tombstones, you know,

Rest In Peace

so our culture is very weird

[laughter]

in lots of ways

but especially regarding death

I just had the great good fortune

to be

speaking with someone the night before
they died

on the telephone, he had just gotten the final say

from his doctors that the battle was lost,

he had AIDS and he had fought valiantly

he also loved to live, loved this life

loved his friends, loved his experiences,

but he got the message, It's over

everything that could be done has been done

And by the next morning he was dead.

So I was, also had the great good fortune to be

with his body

and the emanation of peace and love

I'm not sure if everyone

experience is, but it seemed to me that everyone who

was there that day

with his body, his dead body, his ashen dead body

felt an un-knowable incomprehensible joy of being-ness.

I didn't wish him death

I loved his body also, but many times when I had

spoken to him in situations just like this,

it had been about facing the inevitable death of the body.

The sure and certain death of your body

and everyone else's body.

And he had heard

and he had faced that death

and he had found incomprehensible bliss

not better than the bliss of the

experience of incarnation

and not less than that.

The great opportunity

is to experience that while still alive in a body

and this is your opportunity.

this is your opportunity

I've had glimpses of it

Yes, you must have had

I had glipmpses

it shows

I have had glimpses

Yes. That's

And I want more. I want more

So which do you want more?

Well see I want more and I want to stay here

Yes, yes [laughing]

See, This is, this is

I understand it. Of course. That's natural, that's natural

In this moment

this right now

are you willing to face the reality

that ultimately this body will die?

we don't know when

it could be tomorrow.

I am willing

It could be in 10 years, it could be in 50 years

This willingness itself is the openness

Then, yes, you fight the disease as much as you like

but then you aren't fighting death

you know you're fighting the disease

Death is here always, death is not the enemy.

Death is life

and life is death.

They are not separate.

Birth and death are separate

because they appear

in life.

Birth and life are the same

death and life are the same.

Birth and death are in the realm of appearances

they're different.

To recognize that death is here

and to meet it fully as you are meeting it

to not wait for the diagnosis,

and if the diagnosis comes

to recognize the diagnosis as my ally in

meeting this, it's not the ally of the body.

But it's the ally of consciousness

So I'm happy for you to take care of your body

Yes, take care of your body, take care of

your children's bodies

your parents' bodies

the body of the

planet

and meet death.

That's the help.

Thank you.

What's that then that comes up?

I feel gratitude, I feel extreme gratitude to be here

to be, to have this moment

precious moment, precious moment

and it's here, and this moment will pass

but what is here in this moment that
doesn't pass?

This is what can be met

when the moment passes

without clinging to the moment

to see what is still here?

Then this is the gift

of your life time

to your children, to your husband

oh, yes

to yourself

and everyone who is touched by

your children, your husband and you.

yes

That's the salute.

[laughter]

I feel so blessed.

You are.

Uuuh

And to know you're blessed,

this is the blessing

beyond comprehension, this is the grace

Everyone in this room is blessed,

so blessed

some know it, and some don't

those who know it

huh

this is the blessing of blessings.

Those who don't know it

can catch it from those who

recognize, I'm blessed, that's good news

it's another exquisite byproduct of coming together like this

and gratitude?

Oh, gratitude.

I like it there, I like to be there.

And you're not?

I am.[laughing] I am.

Yes, you are. You can say I am blessed

that's gratitude.

{laughing]

That doesn't mean that emotions won't come up

Yes. Obviously, whatever has been held

as reality that can be kept

this will come up.

Meet it, meet it, meet it, meet it, meet it.

And joy too

And such joy. You are radiating joy.

What's that?

I love you

[laughing]

I love you too.

I love you too.

Thank you.

This cannot die.

That's the truth.

So, in whatever time you have left,

with diagnosis or without diagnosis

don't neglect to say what must be said

to your children, to your parents,

to your friends, to your enemies.

Say what must be said

because any body can be struck down at any moment.

Blessed self.

Yes.

Well, that's really there, that's the issue of
protection

and not protecting

till the body can be protected and

there's no harm in protecting the body.

But if that protection

becomes confused with who you are

and you begin to protect who you are, then

you discover one day you're closed to you, or

you have protected it out of sight

it's a closed, contracted fist

Then you open it

People used to ask Papaji the same question of how

to open, how to surrender, and he would say

It's like having a tissue in your fist

takes some energy to hold that tissue

and there are all kinds of nerves and bones and muscles and tendons involved.

To relax that fist

just like that

[laughing]

Of course there are some people who walk around

not even knowing

they're in a fist

but when someone says, Hey, you're all balled up
in a fist

or they look down and go, My God,

I'm in a fist, aah, aah.

And the only thing that keeps it from being that easy,
that simple

is the thought, It can't be this easy.

It can't be this simple.

I've held this fist for so long

just like that.

It's much harder

than that.

OK

Here you are, the last time we were in Satsang

Charlie said what?

I'm going to be easy.

I don't know if I'll ever see you again, you know?

He has, had a multiplicity of disease and

negative diagnosis

and so

we were together as if we would never see each other again.

We still are that way.

That's right

[laughing]

Cause once you taste the nectar of being
together that way

you know the reality is we may never
see each other again

So let us be

The first time.

yes, the first time

So it seemed very easy for me to answer that
question about what I want

What I want is what I already have

but I knew that some, could be

so I pushed myself and what I came to was

that I want to continue

to be open to whatever comes

to, to, to just,

I mean I have AIDS, so

there's any number of things that could happen

the cancer's in remission

tomorrow could be something else

most likely will be something

somewhere down the road.

I want to continue to

to be with it,

to not run away from it

whether that means

using drugs or

getting off on some mind trip

the only hold out,

what I'm not willing to give

is my choice of suicide.

That's where I'm still holding.

I'm not ready to give that up

I want to continue to

have the choice

of at some point
saying Enough

And it's an uncomfortable holding

you know, as I say it, it's,

i can let that one go

[laughing]

Yeah, it's so uncomfortable

[laughing]

Do you hear the discomfort of that holding on to

that choice of suicide?

[laughing]

I mean if it gets that bad, I'm
obviously dying anyway, so

[laughing]

aaaah,

[breathing deeply]

The other possible holding or let's just say

holding from the way I see it is

I have a very, very strong survival instinct.

It's been honed over the years,

I've inherited, my mother was an Auschwitz survivor

but over the years, I've had AIDS for over 15 years,

this kind of survival thing has been honed

and it sometimes

takes priority

over everything else.

And I don't see

whether

that's the choice away from truth

or that's part of truth

under the circumstances.

It's part of truth.

Hmm.

You're speaking of a physical, emotional

primarily physical, cellular survival

that is natural to all, all forms.

In some forms is much stronger

than in others.

Cause I was thinking also about

whether I'd be willing to give up health and

the question didn't make sense to me

because, How could it happen

that I would be struck with the choice

of health or truth?

Health or no health is all part of truth,

I mean this is kind of,

it struck me as an intellectual thing.

That's right.

Are you willing to die for God?

Are you willing to give up health and?

It's not the way it works, is it?

That's it. You can only say that

from knowing how it works.

That's from Middle Ages, right?

Well, in the willingness to even consider the question,

in the willingness to consider, OK, if ill health

comes, you've actually had the experience,

it's a direct experience.

That's what I want, willingness.

Bad health has come

Willingness.

And in that you know truth is untouched.

Yes, willingness, that's what you said, when you

said open.

How could it be touched?

Can't be.

Can't be.

Just in different realms.

that's not even

it's not even apples and oranges

it's it's, I mean, how could truth be touched
by circumstance?

It wouldn't be truth, I mean, what are we talking about here?

[laughter]

What we're we talking about what's unchanging

[laughing]

Right?

Right.

Right, that's right, that's it, that's right

that's it, that simple, that clear, that obvious.

[breathing deeply]

the only refuge, really

thank you, Gangaji.

Thank you, Charlie.

Thank you for sharing this.

I was wondering what you do with

OK, I have a physical pain condition

and I've done a lot of physical, a lot of

spiritual work

but I can't seem to get around it.

What is the pain situation?

Ughh,

[sighing]

Well, I just have a lot of pain

and it just seems to be what I've

come into this life with, you know?

And I know that I'm more than the pain, you know,

How do you know that?

I've experienced it.

Well, that's beautiful, isn't it?

And you do what you can do to take care

of the pain?

Yeah

And it's just like

it won't go away?

Then the pain has something to teach you

that you have not

It's already taught me stuff

No, no.

Yes, I understand that it's already taught you,

but there's something waiting

inside it

I'm not saying the pain will ever go away

I don't know that it will go away

some bodies have pain throughout their lives

but I know that the suffering around the pain

is some resistance

to what the pain is offering.

And not even that it came to offer that

I'm not speaking in a metaphysical way

it's just, I'm speaking about the possibility

of actually meeting the pain

not going around it.

Going right into it.

Yeah, yeah

I've done that sometimes

And what happens?

It can momentarily bring peace

It brings the peace?

Yeah, but it doesn't go away.

What brings the peace?

Yes, but there' s peace.

So in... momentarily, in moments that you have experienced,

if I'm understanding you correctly

when you stop resisting the pain

you actually go into the pain

there's peace.

there has been, yeah.

There has been peace, right?

Yeah.

So the pain doesn't have to go away

for there to be the recognition of peace.

Is that right?

I don't wanna, I don't want to feed you...your lines.

Say it again

So the pain doesn't have to go away

for there to be a recognition of peace.

Yes, that's true, yeah

So then the question is

What do you want most?

The... and in this case, not in all cases,
but in this case, let us say that

Do you want most for the pain to go away? or

most for there to be peace?

That's a hard question, I can appreciate it.

Yeah.

So, before you answer,

If the pain goes away, what is it you will get?

I don't know.

Well, you must have some idea.

If I'm rid of this pain then I will have...

I can't say peace because I don't know that.

But isn't that what you hope?

Yeah, but it seems like when you get something

that you hope, or you think you want, that will make

everything right, that as soon as you get it

then there is something else to fill its place.

That's right.

That's wisdom of

That's maturity

But if you will examine that your

your hopes and your energy of getting rid of this pain

has to do with wanting peace to be in way it is

you want the pain out and peace there.

But you've just told me that

in moments in the past

where for some reason through grace or

exhaustion or whatever

you stopped fighting the pain

you stopped trying to get rid of the pain

so that you can get whatever will be there

when the pain's not there

you just go into the pain, there's peace.

Uh-uh

Problem is I live in a physical body, you know?

I'm speaking of the physical body

go into the pain

How long does it take?

Are you aware of the pain right now?

uh-uh

Let's go in it together then.

OK.

Where is it?

Various parts.

Shoulders, neck. head, knees.

Pick one of those spots.

OK

But not to get rid of it

This is not an exercise in getting rid of it

There are plenty of exercises to get rid of it
and some work

and they can be learned and they're useful

and I have nothing against them

But that's not what this is.

This is an exercise in not getting rid of it.

OK.

OK?

This is an exercise in going into the very core of it.

OK.

Are you there?

Uh-uh

How long did it take?

Not long.

Less than a second,

What's there? What's in the core?

Fear.

Fear.

So now we have a deeper core,

let us go into that fear,

not to get rid of it.

This is an exercise in not getting rid of the fear

OK.

Just going right into it.

What are you experiencing?

Peace.

[laughing]

How long did that take?

not long

not long.

Let's go into the peace, not to keep it.

Not to keep it.

This is an exercise to see if you can get rid of it.

[laughter]

By going into it.

[laughing]

I don't want to get rid of it.

Yes, I understand, just like you didn't want

to go into the fear, or into the pain.

So this is like counter-intuitive

hmm

it's counter what we have learned as organisms,

usefully learned

to avoid pain, to avoid fear, to listen to fear

because that's been part of the survival mechanism

but in our meeting tonight

we are more concerned with what's eternally true

than we are with particular survival.

So, when you go into this peace, not to keep it

just to meet it.

What's your experience?

uuuh

I went into my head

but you know the difference, don't you?

uh-uh

That's excellent, that's all that's required

that's called discriminating wisdom.

That means that you can tell the truth, and you

just told the truth,

so you attended to your thoughts, but did the peace

go anywhere when you attended to your thoughts?

Now you can check that out

Cause really the whole point of this is,

Does the peace come and go

when thoughts come and go?

I recognize that experience of the peace

may come and go,

but I'm speaking of, Does peace itself come and go?

Experiences by their nature, come and go.

yes, i see that distinction.

I'm not a pain doctor, but

I am a suffering doctor.

And I know that the medicine for suffering

is to turn and go into the pain

as long as there is a resistance and a running

in the mind, running from the pain, there's suffering.

And the suffering has a past, and it has a projected future.

But in the willingness to stop

and inquire

either, Who is suffering? or

What is in this pain?

the mind loses past and future.

And what is real and true is revealed.

So we have the experience of many different kinds
of bodies

and some bodies are extraordinarily healthy and
have very little pain

and some bodies are extraordinarily sensitive
and have quite a bit of pain,

physical pain, emotional pain,

circumstantial pain,

and this is across the board, rich, poor,

all races, all tribes, all nations.

That's just the variety of life.

The activity of mind and

either it trying to keep a particular type body

or get a particular type body

is suffering.

In this body

that you have thought you are

in the core of this body

whatever type of body it is

sensitive, painful body, or healthy, painless body

doesn't matter

in the core

there is the space that is peace.

And if you stop thinking about how to get out
of the body that may be painful

or how to keep a body that's pain-free

you get to experience the truth.

So that's self inquiry using pain.

Thank you.

I thank you.

My beautiful daughter, Rachel,

was recently killed in a car accident.

And I actually haven't cried much until I saw you.

You walk in the room, and I cry everytime

Good.

There must be a lot of tears over this.

This morning when I sat here crying,

I kept wiping away the tears, wishing I had a Kleenex

and then at some point, I just let go

and let them flow

and I recognized in there

my own significance, like streaming down my face

and dripping away

and I was happy to give it up.

I've had a lot of stories about Rachel's death

and I remembered you saying

not to identify with the thoughts and feelings

and the stories, that they're not who I am,

so each time that i see a story

and I choose to give it up

in that moment, suffering stops.

And I had another story that I wasn't crying

because there was no suffering.

And of course there's lots of stories

but I think the reason I really haven't been crying is

I had the story that I was too busy to cry.

And, as a result of Rachel's death,

I'm now raising my granddaughter

who has cerebral palsy and lots of

medical problems, and so I've had lots of

justification for being busy, lots of things to do

but I kept hearing today, I kept hearing

you say to tell the truth

and I realized that when I tell the truth I'm busy

in order to avoid

being with

the fact that Rachel's gone.

And I choose to be with that.

She's not here with me right now and

I miss her and everything reminds me of her.

But I just want to be with that.

That's the place to be.

And I think partly

one of the things that i've done

to avoid being with that, this busyness and everything

has to do with the fear that

if I be with that

if I let the emotion be there

that I'll lose control.

Yes.

And how can I take care of even,

how can I do what needs to be done if I lose control?

And I guess I kept thinking,

Well, I'll be at retreat soon and then I

can lose control

[laughter]

And now I'm here and realize that

all the busyness that I have used my whole entire

life to avoid being with

isn't control.

That's right, that's the imitation of control.

And I don't want to be in control.

You don't need an imitation

This is very good

And so I cried, and I cry and it's wonderful.

Yes, it's beautiful to grieve for a lost child.

And also what came up for me today

sitting here this morning in the meeting is

just what's there is gratefulness.

I'm just so grateful for Rachel,

she's a wonderful, wonderful, person.

It is, was, will always be.

And

I'm grateful for the 23 years that I had the honor

of being her mother

and knowing her on the level that I knew her.

Very lucky.

And I think that sometimes

I

you know, at first, one of my stories was

that my granddaughter will never recover from this

she's 3 years old and she's full of joy

and she knows her mother's not here

cause she talks to her all the time

and I think she feels

Rachel's presence so strongly, she feels her love

she loves her

and I sort of envy that, like

I want to feel like that

I wanna feel like she's still here,

cause she is, I suppose. i know she's still here

And

I think that that longing that's there

that longing is the same longing

that's always there, for everybody all the time.

That's right.

The longing for self. If I

in the moments that I have a glimpse of self

I am connected with Rachel, and I'm with Rachel

That's the same. Yes.

So this longing is your ally

is not to be pushed aside with busyness.

It's to be surrendered to

fall into the longing.

Let the longing have you

The longing feels like the truth.

It is the truth, well it's the

it's, I don't even wanna say path

cause it's closer

It's the

song of truth calling itself

and we have been afraid of it because

yes, you lose control

You lose all illusion of control

when you fall into that song.

What a relief.

That's right.

I don't have to be busy anymore.

That's right. What good news for your grandchild, too,

how you can participate with her now.

the deepest way

One of my stories that I recognized this morning

was that, I had a story that I wasn't

adequate to raise this child

and that I had to work really hard and stay really busy.

And then I realized how silly that is

all that's required is love and being with her

that's right

that story had kept me from being with her

This is very clear.

Very clear.

And this is only the first day

I can't wait to see what else is going to happen

[laughter]

I saw you in Satsang last week and

I realized in Satsang that I had this expectation

that you would take this pain away

Oh, no, no

[laughing]

No, no,

if I'm doing my job, I'm amplifying the pain

so that it is inescapable

because it is the pain itself that reveals the truth

All of our lives have been spent in attempts

to control the pain, or avoid the pain,

or be saved from the pain.

No, the pain, meeting the pain, stopping avoiding it

being willing to experience it.

This is

same as Ramana, meeting death.

exact same, only your version of it.

Your arrangement of it.

One friend of mine told me that

if you just let go and let your heart break

than the real you comes through

Hmm, that's a good friend.

We are so scared of letting our hearts break

and yet each time the heart breaks, that crack

is revealed.

And you let your heart break

over and over and over

and then the crack is

just space

space of yourself.

Yes, most people join the spiritual search to get rid of
the pain.

That's legitimate, cause that's what we think

will give us happiness.

But if you have traveled far enough along

the spiritual search, then you see you just

substitute one pain for another,

or you gloss over the pain, or you get very expert

at getting rigid and numb around the pain.

The pain must be met.

When it is met

then you know.

Until it is met

then it's just knowledege

just words remembered, some insights,

correcting other people in their mistakes

when you meet the pain, the longing

your self.

I realized when you were reading Ross's letter

that has occurred is that when I ask, I get the answer.

When I stop trying to find the answer

and just ask.

That's right.

This is true questioning

Not questioning

with an answer that you want it to be.

True questioning

and you're just open

and the answer is right there.

That's right. That's Satsang.

Deeper and deeper.

Thank you for this opportunity to be in this space.

I'm very happy you're here.

I'm very happy you bring your grief

for Rachel here.

There are so many un-experienced griefs

in the closed heart.

But the broken heart

you're set free.

So what a teaching, your presence is, here.

Yes.

There's some notion of detachment, you know,

from the Buddhist teaching that

gets incorporated into the mind

as a way of release from the pain.

It's, Oh, I got it, detachment is the way to be, and so there's a

numbing or a distancing

so one doesn't have to experience the pains of life

the pains of love

the pains of the heart breaking open

and then there's a deeper and deeper closing

in the name of comfort, in the name of

enlightenment

in the name of control, whatever it may be.

So you give up this idea of detachment

and be willing to experience your attachment

and the pain of that attachment and the beauty

of that attachment, and the grief as

that attachment is ripped away from you.

And then you recognize what

can never be detached.

what is not some stoic, unfeeling, un-emotional

un-human existence but what is freely all of it,

consciously all of it.

My question is not really different than his.

That's right, it can't be,

it's always the same question, and it's

so wise of you to recognize that

is always the same question,

just different facet, or different quality

or different flavor, or maybe the same flavor

My illusion is a little bit better. It's cancer

and I'm facing possibly just having maybe couple months to live

Ooh, you look very much alive

[laughing]

Thank you.

So, I don't know about the body, I don't know about the body

but the life that it's pouring out of your eyes

the body is very...

I'm just gonna do this

I'll do it myself

Please, just look out there

Well, I feel alive, but my body feels like it's dying

Yes, body is dying and whether it dies in a couple of months

or in a couple of decades, it's dying

the body has a limited time

but you feel very much alive.

How is that possible?

I have no clue.

Something knows, there's something that understands that

within you

But it's a lot of times covered with fear.

Yes, but right now.

Right now I'm just a bit shaky, but all those people

well, look at them, you'll get less shaky if you face them

you will see what they see

soembody's waving

you will see what they see,

you will see bodies that are dying

most of them are dying

some of them are still on the growing side. but

[laughter]

and who know, some body in here may be gone tomorrow

in a month, two months, a decade, who knows?

this is the nature of this

phenomenal existence, bodies arising and bodies dying

But you know something deeper than that,

that's what I see in your eyse

because I've talked to people who have fatal diseases

who recognize that their bodies are dying soon

and some have this look and some don't

The ones who have this look

have discovered something so precious, so deep

This is what I want you to consciously speak about

One thing that I've been aware since the cancer

how many people pour love on me

and sometimes it alleviates the pain

sometimes it doesn't

Most of the time, makes me feel like

worthy.

Worthy, so you are accepting the love, welcoming

Yeah

so in the love that is poured off you somehow

that love that poured on me brought me here

in many forms, in the form of an airline ticket

to come here, a ride to bring me here

and now the chance to really hold your hand

which I wanted to

And love is pouring out of your eyes.

So somehow you have discovered love

I've experienced it

Yes, you have experienced love
this is the exact same as

I have experienced truth

I have discovered truth.

In experiencing love, true love

you have experienced yourself.

You know your body but this love is closer

than your body, isn't it?

Yeah

yes

it is

yes, it's there

the body is the scary part

yes, bodies are scary, that's where scary is

no control, nothing

yes, but the love?

The love yeah, that, that I feel is also no control

but it doesn't need control

There you go. There you go. You see?

I sort of understood what he meant

but I related more to the other person on the letter

I can't love the cancer yet, I'm still

too scared of it.

Just love the love,

Oh, OK

That's pretty easy, isn't it?

Yeah

But the cancer it just is so

Don't worry about it, I mean, you're free to hate cancer

that's fine

Yeah?

Yeah

[laughter]

I thought from this letter, I'm supposed to

be learning to love it

We always think we're supposed to be something

from something we have heard

cause we're so trained to think, Oh, my God

I'm not experiencing that, well, I should be

and in that we overlook what is being experienced

and in this case it is a tragic overlooking

because what is being experienced is love

Thank you, thank you, thank you so much .

i was afraid to hate it

[laughing]

Yes cause we have been taught that hating is bad

I know it's easy for you guys to laugh but

it's really true, i was afraid

No, it's not, they have the same issues, we're the same

It's not right to hate and we make hating wrong

so then we are so fixated on what we hate

that we overlook the love.

If you are experiencing hate, hate

then you don't have to take action,

then you don't have to suppress it

and deny it.

Then you don't have to suffer with your hate

you just allow hate, and hate is no big deal then.

Then you can see love.

That's the best thing to hear, you know?

It's the truth.

Hate, like suffering, we have made the enemy,

and so we have said, The enemy, hate, has to be kicked out

and since you know that, you sure don't want

anybody to see there's some hate in you

because then they might kick you out, or

if you see, Oh, my God, there's the hate arising

and I must be horrible and not worthy and no good, then I shall learn...

Forget that, that's all part of the conditioning

aaah, thank you.

Recognize what is closer, deeper, more profound, more true

than the hate, that's all. It will take care of the hate

in its own time.

Then the hate is welcome to Satsang,

then the hate is welcome to love,

it's not isolated.

It's not sent off to the death camp,

it's not blasted out of existence,

so it never shows its face again.

It's welcomed to the love,

love knows quite well what to do with hate

rather than the mind in its dichotomy of hate vs. love

knows to do.

WOW.

Wow, that's right.

I feel OK now with dying.

You look more than OK, more than OK.

There's this...

What is more than OK?

This that has never been spoken,

when love is a very small word for it.

But it is pouring out of your eyes.

Your life is being well used

Thank you.

Hmm.

Thank you, all of you.

There are fears that get generated when one

really, really, even considers giving up the story,

stop being the story, it's like, Oh, my God,

Who am I without my story?

Well, you are nobody.

That's right.

And that's what's feared.

If I am nobody then that will mean I don't exist.

And you already don't exist as you think you do.

But, you do exist. That's undeniable. You exist.

You think you exist as you think yourself to exist.

That's not so. You don't exist that way,

except in your fantasy.

And fantasy cannot really give you

what you hunger for.

Only truth can give that

cause truth is hungering for itself.

So, the fear is I will not exist.

I understand that fear.

And I can say many have said

and will say, You are all existence.

It's impossible for you not to exist.

But this fear must be met to know

that for yourself.

So it's not just somebody else saying it.

Somebody else encouraging you.

Some, this somebody else is not asking you to believe that.

But to really meet that fear

to dive into the unknowable ness of the possibility

of you not existing.

This is how Ramana awakened.

He had a fear of death as a 16 yr old, a fear of death

as fear of death arises as we contemplate death,

there's fear, I will not exist.

And usually then we turn from that

or deny that, or flaunt that,

but to actually investigate that

Who or what is it that will not exist?

The body certainly will not exist

at some point

the mind will also not exist at some point

the accumulation of experiences

the memories, the way things have been

woven together to create an apparent continuum

just unravel, just as the body will unravel

finished

and who are you?

Are you the body?

I know the body is infused with you, obviously

I'm not saying you're separate from the body

Who are you?

So Gangaji can say you're radiant consciousness

someone else can say you are the light,

the truth, God, beauty,

but you must recognize yourself

for this to be fulfilment

Otherwise is just another trip added to your story

and that recognition, yes, that evokes fear.

That's right.

Because this is not casual.

This is not just some other experience.

This is the recognition that at some point

all experiences stop. Death.

And actually inviting the meeting of that now.

So that if by chance, this body were to die right now.

OK. I show up for that.

I stop trying to escape that.

In worldly fantasy, or spiritual fantasy.

This is possible, this is Ramana's gift.

And the ease of it is in recognizing

the energy and attention and effort

that it takes to avoid this meeting.

The practice, the worship, the work, it takes

to construct the image

the thought of who you are.

To change it, to re-work it, to love it, to hate it

the time, the energy

that I can be freed in an instant

and when it is freed, it is used

mysteriously, wheter is publicly, privately, secretly,

doesn't matter, it's irelevant

it'snaturally used because it's energy that's released

from the circling, twisted, fixated thought

I am somebody other than you

that's the illusion.