Protecting the Amazon Rainforest

Marcelo, here we have the map of Amazonia

that shows us the deforestation data of the area,

which you are showing to us,

I would like to estabilish a relationship between those informations

and the theme we are working on now, that are evidence and influence.

How do you think these two things are related?

Do you have any thoughts on this subject?

This is a work made by satellite images

And you are, nowadays, able to measure, for example,

how much forest we have lost.

Even though, we have lost too much of forest,

we still have.. This is the most part of the remain in the planet.

And it is essential for several 'environmental services', mainly,

those related to climate, for examplo,

The steam, and its export for other regions,

The evidence,this map evidence,

brings another evidence, which we cannot see

in here... not in this map scale,

That is the 'forest degradation',

it is not the total deflorestation, but

is the lumber of some threes...

- So, 'forest degradation' is actually about specific species?

- Exactly, specific species, for example, for lumber industry... Coal..

That is,coal industries use other species.

We still have coal industry in Brazil wich

produces 'big iron' and is cleaning

the forest that remains in some regiond, mainly in region of Pará state.

...

Beneath this scenario of destruction,

we have a very bad scenario of violence...

In Fact, there is a big issue in Amazon nowadays

is the rivalry for resources,

this rivalry often involves violence.

As you can see on this map, for example,

this is a map that shows protected regions

We have several protected areas and we have indigenous territories.

Those indigenous territories,

the indigenous are able to protect,

it is not the same with the 'protected areas' and

in Brazil like in other Latin American countries,

There are protected areas that are for

the local communities, for their survival.

Those communities are too much vulnerable.

The areas are there, but there is no governance.

The government is not there giving conditions to the people,

Then, we have different examples... I..

I lost one of my friends here, José Cláudio and Maria, his wife..

She was killed because she was with him,

- Where did it happen?

- It happened in 'Nova Pichuna', in Pará state, in 2011, after....

Four moths after his interview in a TEDx,

saying that he was under death threat.

Why did he die? He died because He used to guard the forest,

his piece of land, he used to lived there

in the tiny piece of land, with 100 hectares.

But lumbermen and farms are looking for....,

the lumbermen are looking for the wood,

they want to cut down all the small areas, that belong to the local cultivators.

That areas 'settlements', in fact, for the local sustainable development; and the farmers

want either rent the land and create cattle..

Putting all the lands together as they were a big farm..

either cast out the local cultivator and take their property.

He(my friend) was denouncing this and He has been killed because of this.

- And lots of people felt the death of José Cláudio, isn't?

- Yes. - People from the whole country were moved....

- Exactly. - It is very hard to see threats like this to

freedom of speech and to political activism.

I've recently heard a description from

José Cláudio killers' judgement and

The politics in this region of Brazil works...

... really locally and in other regions of the country, it is not really understood.

In where I live, I do not get a lot of this dynamics.

- José Cláudio story is a emblematic case,

because the fact the He was in a TEDx,

made him more well known,

More like a public figure, it is on internet,

several people have heard his story.

Like him, we have a lot of leaders who

are been killed, are continuously been killed. Other people have been killed after him,

but those people are not shown. So, the 'evidence', I think,

is also in turning public these stories of people who are dying....

- And the fact that tahre already is a work in the sense to bring... Uhmm...

like, in the case of José Cláudio that was more well known,

and, unfortunately, It was not possible to avoid it. Isn't It?

- No. - Actually, I want to ask you about it...

We have information and We are able to point the problem,

How could we invert the dynamics and use the information we have

in order to be more active in this region, in the Amazon issue?

- I think that, actually, We have the information, but

It is not used as It should be.

We should show more this, make pressure on the government.

The government knows... the 'comissão pastoral da terra',

an organization administrated by the catholic church has a list of people under danger.

If you take this list you can check like: this one is dead, this is dead, dead....

And this is unacceptable! -This is, in fact, unacceptable!

- And not just the government, but also the people have to do something about it.

When we think about 'the government',we think just about the executive government, but,

what about the legal? Less then 1% of these leaders murders cases are solved.

- But what happened? Are they waiting judgments?

Do these case never turn into court cases?

- Policy is not able to gather enough proofs,

there are evidence of corruption in both policy and in the judiciary,

usually, the prosecutors who accuse are not good,

they are not able to accomplish the prosecution.

Then, It is not possible to point the masterminds of the crimes,mainly or the murders.

- And It was what happened in the case of José Cláudio, right? -Yes, it was exactly

what happened in the case of José Cláudio.

And the same happened in an even more well known case, that is the case od Sister Dorothy.

In 2005, Sister Dorothy has been killed.

A Sister... ...Uhmm.. It is hard to talk about it.. because..

She was 70 years old...

... She was a friend...

And she has been killed with the Bible in hands, You know?

We are aware of who are the masterminds..

- And Is not it possible to gather proofs...? -Just one of them has been indicted,

and that very sad, You know? We cannot accept that! loosing friends, and....

- And they are people who are important to keep this world's treasure! That is unacceptable!

- It is a country where a 70 years old lady, a Sister, a nun died and

It is not possible to catch who really are the masterminds...

In the Amazon we call 'consortium'...

... usually, people are killed...

...The most well known people, those who really generate problems,

the real troubles makers for

the ones who work illegally...

... What they do is a 'consortium', between several farmers,loggers... and whoever..

They get together to pay the murder... and

...one member of the consortium is selected to

be pointed as indicted in case the policy achieve to find what happened.

That is what is happening there, so...

There still are lots of people being threated,

things are better in some areas.. But there still are too much issues...

I think that we while actvistics should show it up even more...

José Cláudio was just one more, and a journalist devided

bring him to TEDx and show his face, due to this

It was possible for us to call people attention to his case

and at least arrest the murders..

If it was not like thate He would have been just someone else in the statistic,

So, I believe that 'evidence' brings light to what is happening and is essential.

- And, You know how It is like in loco, righ?

How do you think local people deal this Amazon issue,

that involves politics, deforestation...

- Those people understand what they are doing pretty well,

They know They are protecting social and human rights...

And also theb enviroenment,

most part understand the line between the environment and people.

There is not such thing as a rupture between these two things.

Like some farmers think there is, and

face the forest as a trammers for them,

For them, in order to develop It is necessery to take this trammer off.

Another thing is that most people know are awere

They are under danger, but they insist in stay there

and keep in protecting there area.

This is a problem, not evereybody agrees in protect themselfs, You know?

- And we keep in touch with lots of people

from international organizations, people

worried in promoting human rights,

They deal with new technologies,

and are having, through this video, the opportunity to

talk to these communities,

How could these international organizations help to transform

this reality that is so clear for those who work in there,

and make a political action more eficient, defending people from the violence and

in the deforestation issue?

- I think that they could help local organization

that are already there and are working in order to reduce the violence,

They could give voice to them.

Help people hear and pay attetion at what is happening there.

So, there are several local organizations,

even the 'Comissão Pastoral da Terra', C.P.T. is one of them

and It could be contacted in onder to list

other local organizations.

And this situation does not happen just in Brazil, It also happens in Peru.

- And for those who are not in Brazil,

in the sense to gather information on internet...

What would be the best first step?

There are these local organizations.. there are....

- There are these organizations, they have the data,

the government... But, It is hard to gather the information available.

- Mainly, for those who are abroad, isn't it?

- The Brazilian Public Prosecutor also has

a list of people under danger in the region.

The point is that there is not any program

in the direction of the disclosure of the information, so,

organize the information would also be a any of make a difference.