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Marcelo, here we have the map of Amazonia
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that shows us the deforestation data of the area,
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which you are showing to us,
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I would like to estabilish a relationship between those informations
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and the theme we are working on now, that are evidence and influence.
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How do you think these two things are related?
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Do you have any thoughts on this subject?
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This is a work made by satellite images
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And you are, nowadays, able to measure, for example,
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how much forest we have lost.
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Even though, we have lost too much of forest,
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we still have.. This is the most part of the remain in the planet.
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And it is essential for several 'environmental services', mainly,
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those related to climate, for examplo,
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The steam, and its export for other regions,
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The evidence,this map evidence,
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brings another evidence, which we cannot see
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in here... not in this map scale,
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That is the 'forest degradation',
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it is not the total deflorestation, but
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is the lumber of some threes...
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- So, 'forest degradation' is actually about specific species?
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- Exactly, specific species, for example, for lumber industry... Coal..
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That is,coal industries use other species.
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We still have coal industry in Brazil wich
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produces 'big iron' and is cleaning
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the forest that remains in some regiond, mainly in region of Pará state.
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...
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Beneath this scenario of destruction,
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we have a very bad scenario of violence...
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In Fact, there is a big issue in Amazon nowadays
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is the rivalry for resources,
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this rivalry often involves violence.
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As you can see on this map, for example,
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this is a map that shows protected regions
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We have several protected areas and we have indigenous territories.
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Those indigenous territories,
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the indigenous are able to protect,
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it is not the same with the 'protected areas' and
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in Brazil like in other Latin American countries,
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There are protected areas that are for
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the local communities, for their survival.
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Those communities are too much vulnerable.
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The areas are there, but there is no governance.
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The government is not there giving conditions to the people,
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Then, we have different examples... I..
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I lost one of my friends here, José Cláudio and Maria, his wife..
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She was killed because she was with him,
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- Where did it happen?
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- It happened in 'Nova Pichuna', in Pará state, in 2011, after....
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Four moths after his interview in a TEDx,
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saying that he was under death threat.
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Why did he die? He died because He used to guard the forest,
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his piece of land, he used to lived there
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in the tiny piece of land, with 100 hectares.
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But lumbermen and farms are looking for....,
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the lumbermen are looking for the wood,
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they want to cut down all the small areas, that belong to the local cultivators.
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That areas 'settlements', in fact, for the local sustainable development; and the farmers
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want either rent the land and create cattle..
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Putting all the lands together as they were a big farm..
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either cast out the local cultivator and take their property.
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He(my friend) was denouncing this and He has been killed because of this.
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- And lots of people felt the death of José Cláudio, isn't?
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- Yes. - People from the whole country were moved....
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- Exactly. - It is very hard to see threats like this to
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freedom of speech and to political activism.
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I've recently heard a description from
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José Cláudio killers' judgement and
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The politics in this region of Brazil works...
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... really locally and in other regions of the country, it is not really understood.
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In where I live, I do not get a lot of this dynamics.
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- José Cláudio story is a emblematic case,
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because the fact the He was in a TEDx,
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made him more well known,
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More like a public figure, it is on internet,
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several people have heard his story.
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Like him, we have a lot of leaders who
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are been killed, are continuously been killed. Other people have been killed after him,
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but those people are not shown. So, the 'evidence', I think,
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is also in turning public these stories of people who are dying....
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- And the fact that tahre already is a work in the sense to bring... Uhmm...
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like, in the case of José Cláudio that was more well known,
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and, unfortunately, It was not possible to avoid it. Isn't It?
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- No. - Actually, I want to ask you about it...
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We have information and We are able to point the problem,
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How could we invert the dynamics and use the information we have
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in order to be more active in this region, in the Amazon issue?
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- I think that, actually, We have the information, but
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It is not used as It should be.
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We should show more this, make pressure on the government.
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The government knows... the 'comissão pastoral da terra',
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an organization administrated by the catholic church has a list of people under danger.
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If you take this list you can check like: this one is dead, this is dead, dead....
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And this is unacceptable! -This is, in fact, unacceptable!
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- And not just the government, but also the people have to do something about it.
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When we think about 'the government',we think just about the executive government, but,
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what about the legal? Less then 1% of these leaders murders cases are solved.
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- But what happened? Are they waiting judgments?
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Do these case never turn into court cases?
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- Policy is not able to gather enough proofs,
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there are evidence of corruption in both policy and in the judiciary,
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usually, the prosecutors who accuse are not good,
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they are not able to accomplish the prosecution.
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Then, It is not possible to point the masterminds of the crimes,mainly or the murders.
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- And It was what happened in the case of José Cláudio, right? -Yes, it was exactly
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what happened in the case of José Cláudio.
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And the same happened in an even more well known case, that is the case od Sister Dorothy.
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In 2005, Sister Dorothy has been killed.
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A Sister... ...Uhmm.. It is hard to talk about it.. because..
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She was 70 years old...
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... She was a friend...
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And she has been killed with the Bible in hands, You know?
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We are aware of who are the masterminds..
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- And Is not it possible to gather proofs...? -Just one of them has been indicted,
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and that very sad, You know? We cannot accept that! loosing friends, and....
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- And they are people who are important to keep this world's treasure! That is unacceptable!
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- It is a country where a 70 years old lady, a Sister, a nun died and
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It is not possible to catch who really are the masterminds...
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In the Amazon we call 'consortium'...
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