PBS NewsHour full episode April 20, 2018
-
0:04 - 0:06JUDY WOODRUFF: Good evening.
I'm Judy Woodruff. -
0:06 - 0:12On the "NewsHour" tonight: The Democratic
Party sues Russia, the Trump campaign, and -
0:12 - 0:14WikiLeaks for meddling in the 2016 election.
-
0:14 - 0:19Plus: We see James Comey's memos on meeting
with the president. -
0:19 - 0:25Then, I sit down with the U.N. high commissioner
for human rights, Zeid bin Ra'ad al-Hussein, -
0:25 - 0:30to talk about ongoing conflict in Syria and
Yemen. -
0:30 - 0:31And it's Friday.
-
0:31 - 0:37Mark Shields and Reihan Salam are here to
talk about the Comey memos and what the passing -
0:37 - 0:41of Barbara Bush may teach us about politics
today. -
0:41 - 0:44Then: a poet's best friend.
-
0:44 - 0:50Author Stephen Kuusisto writes about his relationship
with his guide dog after a condition left -
0:50 - 0:51him legally blind.
-
0:51 - 0:54STEPHEN KUUSISTO, Author, "Have Dog, Will
Travel": As I'm writing about what Corky and -
0:54 - 1:02I did together, right, I began to realize
this is about my opening up and becoming a -
1:02 - 1:06larger, more courageous, open, curious, and
outgoing person. -
1:06 - 1:16JUDY WOODRUFF: All that and more on tonight's
"PBS NewsHour." -
1:16 - 1:18(BREAK)
-
1:18 - 1:28JUDY WOODRUFF: The claim that President Trump
stole the 2016 election is going to federal -
1:28 - 1:29court.
-
1:29 - 1:34A Democratic Party lawsuit today alleges a
conspiracy and seeks civil damages. -
1:34 - 1:40It comes as the president is also doing battle
with former FBI Director James Comey. -
1:40 - 1:42Yamiche Alcindor begins our coverage.
-
1:42 - 1:48YAMICHE ALCINDOR: The list of defendants in
the Democratic National Committee's multimillion-dollar -
1:48 - 1:53federal lawsuit reads like a who's-who of
Trump associates. -
1:53 - 1:59The president himself is not among them, but
the DNC is suing the Trump campaign, the president's -
1:59 - 2:05son, Donald Trump Jr., the president's son-in-law
and White House adviser, Jared Kushner, longtime -
2:05 - 2:11associate Roger Stone, and the indicted former
Trump campaign chairman, Paul Manafort. -
2:11 - 2:16It also includes WikiLeaks, and the site's
founder, Julian Assange. -
2:16 - 2:22Russia, and the country's main military intelligence
unit, the GRU, sit at the top of the list -
2:22 - 2:23of defendants.
-
2:23 - 2:26The DNC's central allegation?
-
2:26 - 2:31That people close to President Trump and Russian
entities conspired to spread documents that -
2:31 - 2:37were stolen from the DNC, and bolster then
candidate Trump's presidential bid. -
2:37 - 2:43Russia and its co-conspirators, the lawsuit
says -- quote -- "must answer for these actions." -
2:43 - 2:49The Democratic Party set off a similar legal
battle decades ago, after the Watergate break-in. -
2:49 - 2:54Back then, the DNC sued President Nixon's
reelection campaign for damages. -
2:54 - 3:01The party ultimately won a $750,000 settlement
on the same day that Mr. Nixon resigned. -
3:01 - 3:06There was also continued attention today on
the Comey memos, James Comey's first-hand -
3:06 - 3:11accounts of his interactions with President
Trump while he was still director of the FBI. -
3:11 - 3:15There are seven memos in all, 15 pages total.
-
3:15 - 3:21Thursday, after pressure from some Republican
lawmakers, the Justice Department handed over -
3:21 - 3:23the notes to Congress.
-
3:23 - 3:27They detail discussions Comey had with the
president and White House aides about his -
3:27 - 3:32first national security adviser, Michael Flynn,
as well as the president's fixation on the -
3:32 - 3:35so-called Steele dossier.
-
3:35 - 3:37Comey had publicly discussed some of what's
in the memos previously. -
3:37 - 3:39JAMES COMEY, Former FBI Director: Sure.
-
3:39 - 3:44I created records after conversations, and
I think I did it after each of our nine conversations. -
3:44 - 3:47If I didn't, I did it for nearly all of them,
especially the ones that were substantive. -
3:47 - 3:51YAMICHE ALCINDOR: President Trump today lashed
out at Comey again. -
3:51 - 3:56"Flynn's life can be totally destroyed," he
lamented, "while shady James Comey can leak -
3:56 - 3:57and lie.
-
3:57 - 4:00Is that really the way life in America is
supposed to work?" -
4:00 - 4:06Meanwhile, three House GOP committee chairmen
argued that Mr. Trump would benefit from the -
4:06 - 4:07memos being released.
-
4:07 - 4:14"Rather than making a criminal case for obstruction,
these memos would be defense exhibit A." -
4:14 - 4:16Congressional Democrats disagreed.
-
4:16 - 4:20House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi tweeted
that the memos proved Mr. Trump's -- quote -
4:20 - 4:23-- "contempt for the rule of law."
-
4:23 - 4:26For the "PBS NewsHour," I'm Yamiche Alcindor.
-
4:26 - 4:31JUDY WOODRUFF: Late today, the Trump campaign
responded to the lawsuit, calling it frivolous -
4:31 - 4:33and completely without merit.
-
4:33 - 4:38We will hear from the chair of the Democratic
National Committee right after the news summary. -
4:38 - 4:43In the day's other news: Russia says President
Vladimir Putin is still waiting for President -
4:43 - 4:47Trump to follow up on an invitation to visit
the White House. -
4:47 - 4:51The offer came in a phone call with Trump
last month. -
4:51 - 4:56In Moscow today, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov
said Mr. Trump had also talked of visiting -
4:56 - 4:57Russia.
-
4:57 - 4:59SERGEI LAVROV, Russian Foreign Minister (through
translator): We proceed from the fact that -
4:59 - 5:04the U.S. president said that he would be glad
to see President Putin in the White House, -
5:04 - 5:06that he would be glad to meet in a return
visit. -
5:06 - 5:10President Trump has returned to this topic
a couple of times, so, of course, we assume -
5:10 - 5:11that he will make it more specific.
-
5:11 - 5:15JUDY WOODRUFF: There was no immediate response
from the White House. -
5:15 - 5:20In the Middle East, violence erupted again
at Gaza's border, and Palestinians said that -
5:20 - 5:25five were killed and 150 wounded by Israeli
fire. -
5:25 - 5:31Thousands of Gazans turned out, and some burned
tires and sailed kites carrying Molotov cocktails -
5:31 - 5:33toward the border fence.
-
5:33 - 5:39Israeli officials said they defended the barrier
with live fire and tear gas. -
5:39 - 5:45There is word that North Korea will halt all
missile and nuclear weapons testing as of -
5:45 - 5:46tomorrow.
-
5:46 - 5:49That word comes from the state news agency.
-
5:49 - 5:53Earlier today, North and South Korea took
another major step today. -
5:53 - 5:58The rivals installed and tested the first
ever direct telephone hot line between Seoul -
5:58 - 6:00and Pyongyang.
-
6:00 - 6:03Their leaders hold a summit next Friday.
-
6:03 - 6:10Several people were publicly caned in Indonesia's
Aceh Province today, despite international -
6:10 - 6:11condemnation.
-
6:11 - 6:16Some unmarried couples were punished, under
Islamic Sharia law, for public displays of -
6:16 - 6:20affection, along with two women accused of
prostitution. -
6:20 - 6:24A crowd of hundreds, including Malaysian tourists,
looked on. -
6:24 - 6:28Many jeered and recorded the scene on their
cell phones. -
6:28 - 6:32And some objected to plans to move the public
canings indoors. -
6:32 - 6:37WOMAN (through translator): This caning is
carried out in public because it can be witnessed -
6:37 - 6:41by everyone, so it will give a deterrent effect
against others. -
6:41 - 6:43The caning shouldn't be done in prison for
that reason. -
6:43 - 6:48JUDY WOODRUFF: Human Rights Watch says caning
amounts to torture, and it has demanded that -
6:48 - 6:51the provincial government abolish the practice.
-
6:51 - 6:57The state of Alabama executed an 83-year-old
man overnight by lethal injection. -
6:57 - 7:04Walter Leroy Moody Jr. became the oldest prisoner
put to death in the U.S. since capital punishment -
7:04 - 7:06was reinstated in 1976.
-
7:06 - 7:12Moody was convicted of mailing four bombs
that killed a federal judge and a civil rights -
7:12 - 7:15lawyer in 1989.
-
7:15 - 7:21The casket of former first lady Barbara Bush
lay in repose in Houston today for a 12-hour -
7:21 - 7:23public viewing.
-
7:23 - 7:28Her husband, former President George H.W.
Bush, greeted some of the first people to -
7:28 - 7:29file past.
-
7:29 - 7:32A private funeral will be held tomorrow.
-
7:32 - 7:36Mrs. Bush died Tuesday at the age of 92.
-
7:36 - 7:42A warning today to avoid eating all romaine
lettuce from Southwestern Arizona. -
7:42 - 7:48The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
expanded an earlier alert over an E. coli -
7:48 - 7:49outbreak.
-
7:49 - 7:53At least 60 people across 16 states have fallen
ill so far. -
7:53 - 7:59The CDC says the best advice is, if you don't
know for certain the source of lettuce you -
7:59 - 8:01bought, don't eat it.
-
8:01 - 8:07And on Wall Street, interest rates rose, tech
stocks tumbled, and the market gave ground. -
8:07 - 8:13The Dow Jones industrial average lost 202
points to close at 24462. -
8:13 - 8:18The Nasdaq fell nearly 92 points, and the
S&P 500 slipped 23. -
8:18 - 8:23For the week, all three indexes gained about
half-a-percent. -
8:23 - 8:28And Britain's Prince Charles will be the next
leader of the 53-nation commonwealth. -
8:28 - 8:35Member states met in London today and unanimously
chose Charles for the largely symbolic position. -
8:35 - 8:39He will succeed his mother, Queen Elizabeth,
when she dies. -
8:39 - 8:41The queen turns 92 tomorrow.
-
8:41 - 8:47Still to come on the "NewsHour": why the DNC
filed suit against the Trump campaign; the -
8:47 - 8:53U.N. human rights chief on the crises in Yemen
and Syria; students stage another walkout -
8:53 - 9:01to protest gun violence; and much more.
-
9:01 - 9:12We return to the lawsuit filed by the Democratic
National Committee today against President -
9:12 - 9:18Trump's campaign, several top Trump advisers,
WikiLeaks and the Russian government. -
9:18 - 9:24The DNC alleges a massive a plot to interfere
in the 2016 presidential election, in part -
9:24 - 9:30by hacking the Democratic Party's computer
network and by releasing stolen e-mails. -
9:30 - 9:35I spoke with Democratic National Committee
Chair Tom Perez a short time ago, and I started -
9:35 - 9:41by asking why they filed the suit when the
investigation by special counsel Robert Mueller -
9:41 - 9:42is still under way.
-
9:42 - 9:44THOMAS PEREZ, Chairman, Democratic National
Committee: Well, there are three reasons, -
9:44 - 9:45Judy.
-
9:45 - 9:50First of all, we don't know when Director
Mueller will finish his investigation. -
9:50 - 9:53And he should take all the time he needs to
do a thorough job. -
9:53 - 9:56We have to file within a statute of limitations.
-
9:56 - 10:00And so, if we sit and wait and wait, then
we're frankly committing legal malpractice. -
10:00 - 10:05A year ago, when I came to the DNC, it was
clear to me that we had been hacked and we -
10:05 - 10:07had been hacked by the Russians.
-
10:07 - 10:12It was less clear to me a year ago whether
there was a conspiracy between the Russians -
10:12 - 10:13and the Trump campaign.
-
10:13 - 10:18It has become abundantly clear to me that
there is that conspiracy. -
10:18 - 10:21And because we have done our homework, we
have filed this suit. -
10:21 - 10:26And then, finally, Judy, I'm very concerned
about the upcoming elections. -
10:26 - 10:30Civil lawsuits have an important purpose of
deterrence. -
10:30 - 10:36And I hear from so many people across this
country, they have hacked before, they interfered -
10:36 - 10:39in 2016, and they're going to do it again.
-
10:39 - 10:40What are you going to do about it, Tom?
-
10:40 - 10:44JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, I hear you, but to get
back to the point about conspiracy, this is -
10:44 - 10:48something that we know, again, the special
counsel, Robert Mueller, is looking into it. -
10:48 - 10:52We don't know yet, the public doesn't know
yet if that actually happened. -
10:52 - 10:58It may appear to some people that it did,
but until the dots have been connected and -
10:58 - 11:03there is some legal basis for that, are you
at risk in a lawsuit of getting ahead of what -
11:03 - 11:05are known facts?
-
11:05 - 11:07THOMAS PEREZ: Well, I'm very comfortable of
where we are now. -
11:07 - 11:12I feel we have ample evidence to demonstrate
in a civil proceeding what we're doing. -
11:12 - 11:13And we have a different burden of proof.
-
11:13 - 11:15It's a lower burden of proof in a civil case.
-
11:15 - 11:23And so I have dealt with this from the criminal
side as a DOJ prosecutor, and I understand -
11:23 - 11:27and I have great respect for the work that
Director Mueller is doing. -
11:27 - 11:34And we have great respect that they will continue
to do the independent, thorough job that they -
11:34 - 11:35need to do.
-
11:35 - 11:37But we also have -- we were hacked.
-
11:37 - 11:45And they tried to cause chaos in the DNC and
in the Democratic Party, and we need to seek -
11:45 - 11:48justice in a civil case, and we need to deter.
-
11:48 - 11:50JUDY WOODRUFF: Let me ask.
-
11:50 - 11:54You won't be surprised to know that there
has been a full-throated response from the -
11:54 - 11:54Trump campaign.
-
11:54 - 12:00I'm just quoting their campaign manager who
said: "This is a sham lawsuit about a bogus -
12:00 - 12:07Russian solution claim filed by a desperate,
dysfunctional and nearly insolvent Democratic -
12:07 - 12:08Party."
-
12:08 - 12:12THOMAS PEREZ: Well, I think they had their
greatest hits of conspiracy theories. -
12:12 - 12:18And, Judy, for your viewers, I think it would
be interesting to go back to the Watergate -
12:18 - 12:24era, because the DNC filed a lawsuit against
the Nixon campaign back then. -
12:24 - 12:29And the response when that lawsuit was filed
was almost identical to what we saw today. -
12:29 - 12:34So it seems like the Trump folks and the Nixon
folks, once again, there's yet another thing -
12:34 - 12:39that they have in common, which is these false
denials of involvement. -
12:39 - 12:43JUDY WOODRUFF: One last question, and that
is, it gets back to the Mueller investigation. -
12:43 - 12:49Does your lawsuit, though, run the risk of
politicizing something which Mr. Mueller has -
12:49 - 12:52for the most part managed to keep away from
politics? -
12:52 - 12:54THOMAS PEREZ: This isn't partisan.
-
12:54 - 12:56This is patriotic.
-
12:56 - 13:02Making sure our elections are free and fair
with no foreign interference, there is nothing -
13:02 - 13:03more important than that.
-
13:03 - 13:09You look at what General McMaster said on
his way out from his service in the Trump -
13:09 - 13:10administration.
-
13:10 - 13:17He said, we haven't -- they have not paid
a cost for their misdeeds, referring to Russia. -
13:17 - 13:19You look at what John McCain has said.
-
13:19 - 13:23He referred to the hack as an act of war.
-
13:23 - 13:28And the absence of deterrence right now, I
think it's incredibly important that we move -
13:28 - 13:29forward.
-
13:29 - 13:34And the civil proceeding is something where
we will be in an Article 3 court. -
13:34 - 13:37We're not going to have a trial of Twitter.
-
13:37 - 13:41We're not going to have Devin Nunes presiding
over the trial. -
13:41 - 13:43I believe in the federal civil justice system.
-
13:43 - 13:51And that, is I think, a really important vehicle
moving forward for us to have the truth out -
13:51 - 13:52there.
-
13:52 - 13:54And I'm confident that the truth is going
to show that there was an unholy alliance -
13:54 - 14:01between the Trump campaign and the Russians
to interfere with our 2016 election. -
14:01 - 14:05JUDY WOODRUFF: Tom Perez, the chairman of
the Democratic National Committee, we thank -
14:05 - 14:06you.
-
14:06 - 14:07THOMAS PEREZ: Thank you.
-
14:07 - 14:12JUDY WOODRUFF: And now William Brangham is
here with more on the legal implications of -
14:12 - 14:13the DNC lawsuit.
-
14:13 - 14:16WILLIAM BRANGHAM: For that analysis, I'm joined
by Susan Hennessey. -
14:16 - 14:20She is the executive editor of Lawfare and
a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution. -
14:20 - 14:21Welcome back to the "NewsHour."
-
14:21 - 14:22SUSAN HENNESSEY, Brookings Institution: Thanks
for having me. -
14:22 - 14:24WILLIAM BRANGHAM: So, you heard about Tom
Perez. -
14:24 - 14:29He's alleging that the Russians, the Trump
campaign, WikiLeaks all conspired to steal -
14:29 - 14:34the DNC's e-mails and then spread them around
to make Hillary Clinton look bad. -
14:34 - 14:37From a legal perspective, what do you make
of their suit? -
14:37 - 14:40SUSAN HENNESSEY: So, Perez sort of notes that
there is ample evidence. -
14:40 - 14:42There's certainly quite a few allegations.
-
14:42 - 14:43Some of it is really well-grounded.
-
14:43 - 14:48It relies on things like this intelligence
community assessment of Russian interference. -
14:48 - 14:53But a lot of it relies on things like news
reports, including a single source or anonymously -
14:53 - 14:54sourced reports.
-
14:54 - 14:58So the challenge in this suit is going to
be translating those essentially news reports -
14:58 - 15:02into evidence that is going to be admissible
in court. -
15:02 - 15:06Now, what's relevant right now is not necessarily
whether they can do that, but whether or not -
15:06 - 15:10they can survive a motion to dismiss, whether
or not they have a well-pleaded complaint -
15:10 - 15:11on the face.
-
15:11 - 15:15It does seem likely that this lawsuit, at
least some defendants, at least some claims -
15:15 - 15:17are likely to survive a motion to dismiss.
-
15:17 - 15:21This is most relevant because it means that
they will move to the discovery phase. -
15:21 - 15:26That might end up becoming a really, really
powerful tool for the DNC to actually unearth -
15:26 - 15:27new information.
-
15:27 - 15:31WILLIAM BRANGHAM: So, the tricky part for
their case, it seems to me, that while there -
15:31 - 15:38might be discrete evidence of the WikiLeaks
release, the DNC being hacked, some members -
15:38 - 15:42of the Trump Organization indicating that
they would like to get dirt on Hillary Clinton, -
15:42 - 15:46they have to tie all of those things together
as a connected conspiracy, right? -
15:46 - 15:47SUSAN HENNESSEY: Right.
-
15:47 - 15:50So what they are alleging is this broad conspiracy.
-
15:50 - 15:54They're alleging that there was an actual
agreement between Russian actors, the Trump -
15:54 - 15:59campaign and their associates to hack the
DNC and an agreement to distribute stolen -
15:59 - 16:02materials that were to help Donald Trump and
harm Hillary Clinton. -
16:02 - 16:04That is a very, very high bar.
-
16:04 - 16:09That certainly is ahead of the public record
that we have seen thus far. -
16:09 - 16:12That's going to be a difficult showing for
them to make in court. -
16:12 - 16:16That said, there is another case going on
in the district of D.C. on a different -- on -
16:16 - 16:19a different theory, actually an invasion of
privacy theory. -
16:19 - 16:23There is going to be a hearing on their motion
to dismiss just on Monday. -
16:23 - 16:27So, we do have another case that is going
to provide a little bit of a road map as to -
16:27 - 16:29whether or not these legal claims are going
to be sufficient. -
16:29 - 16:33WILLIAM BRANGHAM: There's also, of course,
the elephant in the room is the Mueller investigation, -
16:33 - 16:37which is undergoing constantly right now.
-
16:37 - 16:42What does this do vis-a-vis the Mueller investigation,
because, theoretically, the DNC suit touches -
16:42 - 16:46on some of the same people, some of the same
evidence, some of the same events? -
16:46 - 16:47Is this a conflict?
-
16:47 - 16:49Can they go on at the same time?
-
16:49 - 16:50Help me understand that.
-
16:50 - 16:52SUSAN HENNESSEY: Well, I think that they are
fundamentally unrelated. -
16:52 - 16:55We don't know very much about the Mueller
investigation, but it doesn't appear to be -
16:55 - 16:58particularly reactive to things like this.
-
16:58 - 17:03This, the DNC suit, both relies on the Mueller
investigation, because it uses some evidence -
17:03 - 17:06that actually comes from those court filings.
-
17:06 - 17:07It also gets quite a bit ahead.
-
17:07 - 17:08Right?
-
17:08 - 17:09It is alleging this actual conspiracy.
-
17:09 - 17:12But we haven't seen Mueller make that showing.
-
17:12 - 17:16It does involve -- they are related to the
extent that they're talking about the same -
17:16 - 17:18events and the same people.
-
17:18 - 17:21And so I think there's a way to think about
it as a kind of alternative. -
17:21 - 17:23We don't know how the Mueller investigation
is going to end. -
17:23 - 17:28Even if he found evidence of serious wrongdoing,
that might be included in a report that remains -
17:28 - 17:33within DOJ, a report that goes to Congress
and isn't distributed to the American public. -
17:33 - 17:38And so this is an alternate vehicle by which
the DNC might unearth some of those same -- the -
17:38 - 17:43same or similar facts, but actually in a fashion
in which they can conduct their own fact-finding -
17:43 - 17:46and in a fashion in which they can make these
things public. -
17:46 - 17:50So, I think the best way to think about it
is sort of parallel tracks, the same subject -
17:50 - 17:52matter, but not necessarily related.
-
17:52 - 17:56WILLIAM BRANGHAM: This, of course, also comes
when the president is juggling so many other -
17:56 - 17:57legal cases.
-
17:57 - 17:58There's the Mueller case.
-
17:58 - 17:59There's the Stormy Daniels case.
-
17:59 - 18:01There's the Michael Cohen case.
-
18:01 - 18:04There's the emoluments lawsuit.
-
18:04 - 18:09I mean, this is an enormous amount for a White
House the Trump Organization's legal team -
18:09 - 18:10to be juggling.
-
18:10 - 18:11SUSAN HENNESSEY: Right.
-
18:11 - 18:14It's also only a year-and-a-half into his
term. -
18:14 - 18:18This is an amazingly complex legal landscape
that they're working through. -
18:18 - 18:20And we're starting to see some of the peculiarities.
-
18:20 - 18:24In the Southern District case against Michael
Cohen, we actually have the president's private -
18:24 - 18:29lawyers arguing on attorney-client privilege
against Justice Department attorneys. -
18:29 - 18:33That means Donald Trump's individual private
attorneys are arguing essentially against -
18:33 - 18:35his institutional attorneys.
-
18:35 - 18:39And so I think that really illustrates sort
of the strangeness of the situation we're -
18:39 - 18:41in and the potential conflicts there.
-
18:41 - 18:44WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Lastly, let's just shift
gears to the release to these Comey memos. -
18:44 - 18:49These were the memos that James Comey contemporaneously
wrote down after different meetings with the -
18:49 - 18:51president.
-
18:51 - 18:52We have heard about those memos for a long
time. -
18:52 - 18:56Now they have been released and we have been
able to read them specifically. -
18:56 - 19:02Do the details of those memos tell us anything
germane legally with regards to the Russia -
19:02 - 19:03investigation?
-
19:03 - 19:06SUSAN HENNESSEY: So, they don't really offer
much new information, sort of, when we consider -
19:06 - 19:10what Comey has already said in his book and
actually in his congressional testimony as -
19:10 - 19:11well.
-
19:11 - 19:15So I don't know that it advances the ball
forward legally at all. -
19:15 - 19:18That said, it certainly does corroborate Comey's
account. -
19:18 - 19:20It goes to sort of his credibility.
-
19:20 - 19:24And it sort of knocks down this notion of
Comey as a disgruntled employee that's recounting -
19:24 - 19:28these events sort of in a way that's unfavorable
to Trump after the fact. -
19:28 - 19:34These are the memos he wrote while still FBI
director, while he still presumably wanted -
19:34 - 19:37to have a good relationship with the president,
had every incentive to sort of not make a -
19:37 - 19:39mountain out of a molehill.
-
19:39 - 19:44What we're seeing in these memos is really
a profound degree of concern and a concern -
19:44 - 19:48that he has remained consistent about, about
the way President Trump was treating the Justice -
19:48 - 19:52Department and his inability to understand
the importance of sort of maintaining those -
19:52 - 19:54institutional norms of independence.
-
19:54 - 19:58WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Susan Hennessey, thank you
so much. -
19:58 - 20:05SUSAN HENNESSEY: Thank you.
-
20:05 - 20:12JUDY WOODRUFF: The U.S. State Department released
its annual global accounting of the state -
20:12 - 20:14of human rights today.
-
20:14 - 20:20The report blasted Russia, China, Iran and
North Korea, specifically for being forces -
20:20 - 20:21of instability.
-
20:21 - 20:28It also accused Syria's Bashar al-Assad of
indiscriminate attacks on civilians, on hospitals, -
20:28 - 20:33and of employing torture and using rape as
a weapon of war. -
20:33 - 20:38Criticism of Saudi Arabia, a close U.S. ally,
and its intervention in Yemen's brutal civil -
20:38 - 20:40war was more muted.
-
20:40 - 20:45For an international look at these issues
and more, I spoke a short time ago with the -
20:45 - 20:49United Nations high commissioner for human
rights, Zeid Ra'ad al-Hussein. -
20:49 - 20:53I began by asking him about the brutal Syrian
civil war. -
20:53 - 20:55ZEID BIN RA'AD ZEID AL-HUSSEIN, United Nations
High Commissioner for Human Rights: Well, -
20:55 - 21:02for the last few years, there's been an absolute
disregard for the most minimal standards of -
21:02 - 21:04principles in law.
-
21:04 - 21:11And we have seen every conceivable atrocity
being committed by most parties to the conflict, -
21:11 - 21:17but most particularly the Syrian government
and its allies in terms of scale. -
21:17 - 21:23That's not to say that the armed groups, and
particularly the extremist movements, the -
21:23 - 21:30terrorist movements, haven't themselves been
complicit in the most and perpetrated the -
21:30 - 21:33most awful atrocities.
-
21:33 - 21:42But the lion's share of the alleged crimes
against humanity and war crimes that are almost -
21:42 - 21:50certainly to be proven by a court of law in
the future fall at the foot of the Syrian -
21:50 - 21:51government.
-
21:51 - 21:58One must not forget that this whole crisis
began with the torture, the abuse of children -
21:58 - 22:05in Daraa, and it started from a severe violation
of human rights and respect of the rights -
22:05 - 22:06of those children.
-
22:06 - 22:12And from there, we have a crisis that is almost
breaking the world in a very real, real sense. -
22:12 - 22:16JUDY WOODRUFF: Now, we're reading about another
aspect of this crisis in Syria, today, The -
22:16 - 22:22Washington Post reporting on Raqqa, which,
of course, occupied by ISIS for so long. -
22:22 - 22:28This report talks about the destruction of
something like 11,000, 12,000 buildings or -
22:28 - 22:35damage under U.S.-led airstrikes, and it goes
on to say that the sentiment there is increasingly -
22:35 - 22:41that the U.S. took part in this destruction,
but is not taking responsibility for fixing -
22:41 - 22:42it, for cleaning it up.
-
22:42 - 22:47ZEID BIN RA'AD ZEID AL-HUSSEIN: Yes, in all
such operations, basic principles that govern -
22:47 - 22:54the conduct of military forces, principles
such as distinction, proportionality, have -
22:54 - 22:56to be observed.
-
22:56 - 23:05And whenever you see actions like this, you
expect there to be inquiries and investigations, -
23:05 - 23:12such that you can then explain to the people
why it is that civilians have fallen to the -
23:12 - 23:14rockets and the bombardments.
-
23:14 - 23:18Otherwise, you're fighting a losing battle.
-
23:18 - 23:24Basically, as Nietzsche once said, if you're
not careful when fighting monsters, you yourself -
23:24 - 23:25become one.
-
23:25 - 23:31And that's the point that has to be driven
at every time we sit with a particular government. -
23:31 - 23:33Don't make it worse.
-
23:33 - 23:40You are there to protect the civilian population
from armed extremists that have run amok. -
23:40 - 23:47Don't, through criminal negligence, or even
in certain cases, it could be deliberate -- one -
23:47 - 23:50doesn't know -- don't make it worse.
-
23:50 - 23:51Investigate.
-
23:51 - 23:52And make the investigations transparent.
-
23:52 - 23:57JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, another crisis zone in
that connection, of course, is Yemen, where, -
23:57 - 24:03again, terrible human suffering, civilians,
women, children. -
24:03 - 24:05What is your understanding of the situation
there? -
24:05 - 24:06ZEID BIN RA'AD ZEID AL-HUSSEIN: Well, likewise.
-
24:06 - 24:12I mean, it's been this horrific humanitarian
catastrophe, and ongoing. -
24:12 - 24:20We from the human rights side have been tasked
by -- from the Human Rights Council in Geneva -
24:20 - 24:26to put together a group of eminent experts
to investigate these attacks that have led -
24:26 - 24:28to civilian casualties.
-
24:28 - 24:35There was a reported attack today of 20 people,
civilians being killed just outside of Taiz. -
24:35 - 24:41And this investigation will be made public
in September. -
24:41 - 24:48And one hopes that all sides to this horrific
conflict in Yemen, the coalition on one side, -
24:48 - 24:54the Houthis and the separatists in the south,
that they understand that, one day, if they -
24:54 - 24:58continue, or even if they don't continue,
one day, they may well have to stand before -
24:58 - 25:03a judge and account for the alleged crimes
that have been committed. -
25:03 - 25:08JUDY WOODRUFF: Of course, all this is happening
at a time when we are seeing voices, leaders -
25:08 - 25:14around the world who are showing disrespect
for human rights, in parts of Eastern Europe, -
25:14 - 25:20in Hungary, the Czech republic, the Philippines.
-
25:20 - 25:26How do you, in your role at the United Nations,
speak to them? -
25:26 - 25:30What's the role of the rest of the world when
we see these kinds of forces arising? -
25:30 - 25:35ZEID BIN RA'AD ZEID AL-HUSSEIN: Well, this
year, we celebrate the 70th anniversary of -
25:35 - 25:38the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
-
25:38 - 25:43And it's a document that was put by those
who really suffered in two World Wars and -
25:43 - 25:44the Holocaust.
-
25:44 - 25:52And in the second line, it says contempt and
disregard for human rights contributed to -
25:52 - 25:54the suffering of humanity.
-
25:54 - 25:59What we see now is exactly that on the part
of many of the world's leaders, who should -
25:59 - 26:07know better, that, as I said in respect of
Syria, you have a conflict that has destroyed -
26:07 - 26:10not just one part of the world, but maybe
two. -
26:10 - 26:14And it began with a severe human rights violation.
-
26:14 - 26:22And, eventually, all human rights violations,
if they're not curtailed, they can turn into -
26:22 - 26:23conflict.
-
26:23 - 26:25And it behooves us to pay much more attention.
-
26:25 - 26:31JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, words for all of us to
think about. -
26:31 - 26:35The high commissioner at the United Nations
for human rights, Zeid Ra'ad al-Hussein, we -
26:35 - 26:36thank you.
-
26:36 - 26:42ZEID BIN RA'AD ZEID AL-HUSSEIN: Thank you,
Judy. -
26:42 - 26:47Thank you.
-
26:47 - 26:53JUDY WOODRUFF: Stay with us.
-
26:53 - 26:58Coming up on the "NewsHour": Mark Shields
and Reihan Salam analyze the week's news; -
26:58 - 27:04and from the "NewsHour" Bookshelf, a blind
poet details his life-altering connection -
27:04 - 27:07with his guide dog.
-
27:07 - 27:12But first: Thousands of students walked out
of schools nationwide this morning in the -
27:12 - 27:15latest mass protest against gun violence.
-
27:15 - 27:21The events marked the 19th anniversary of
the massacre at Columbine High School in Colorado -
27:21 - 27:23that killed 13.
-
27:23 - 27:25Lisa Desjardins reports on this day's events.
-
27:25 - 27:33MAN: So, now pause for a moment of silence
to honor the victims of Columbine. -
27:33 - 27:37LISA DESJARDINS: The scene was repeated across
the country, moments of silence in places -
27:37 - 27:39like Indianapolis.
-
27:39 - 27:44Students and teachers in a Houston high school
forming a paper chain of names of people slain -
27:44 - 27:46by gun violence.
-
27:46 - 27:51And everywhere, as in New Haven, Connecticut,
protests and appeals for action to stop mass -
27:51 - 27:52shootings.
-
27:52 - 27:56STUDENT: We as a nation cannot afford routine
mass murders. -
27:56 - 27:57We need action now.
-
27:57 - 28:01We need to remind our politicians that this
is us. -
28:01 - 28:03These are our children who are dying.
-
28:03 - 28:07LISA DESJARDINS: In Washington, D.C., students
staged sit-down protest in front of the White -
28:07 - 28:08House.
-
28:08 - 28:11STUDENT: All of these are Columbine victims.
-
28:11 - 28:13We stopped saying their names a long time
ago. -
28:13 - 28:17So, until the end of this moment of silence,
I will continue to repeat their names, so -
28:17 - 28:19you guys don't forget them.
-
28:19 - 28:24Rachel Scott, Daniel Rohrbough, Dave Sanders,
Kyle Velasquez. -
28:24 - 28:29LISA DESJARDINS: From there, they marched
to the Capitol and demanded action on gun -
28:29 - 28:30legislation.
-
28:30 - 28:32VERONICA GOULD-SCHULTZ, Student: Because I
think the people of the United States really -
28:32 - 28:33do deserve that.
-
28:33 - 28:39They deserve to live in a place where you
don't have to be worried about going to CVS -
28:39 - 28:44or going to school or walking down the street
just because of what you look like or because -
28:44 - 28:45someone had a bad day.
-
28:45 - 28:49LISA DESJARDINS: Students from Parkland, Florida's
Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, where -
28:49 - 28:5217 were killed in February, also walked out.
-
28:52 - 28:57They have led a push for stronger background
checks and bans on bump stocks and assault-type -
28:57 - 28:58rifles.
-
28:58 - 29:02That push is national, again today up to the
steps of the Capitol. -
29:02 - 29:08Shortly after the last student walkouts in
March, Congress did pass two gun measures. -
29:08 - 29:12They were to shore up the current background
check system, and also get more funding to -
29:12 - 29:13states.
-
29:13 - 29:17But neither of those changed current law,
and there is no expectation that Congress -
29:17 - 29:20will return to the gun issue any time this
year. -
29:20 - 29:25President Trump has said the mental health
system needs improvement, and he's supported -
29:25 - 29:27the idea of letting teachers carry guns at
schools. -
29:27 - 29:29DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States:
This would only be, obviously, for people -
29:29 - 29:32that are very adept at handling a gun.
-
29:32 - 29:35You would no longer have a gun-free zone.
-
29:35 - 29:41Gun-free zone to a maniac, because they're
all cowards, a gun-free zone is, let's go -
29:41 - 29:45in and let's attack, because bullets aren't
coming back at us. -
29:45 - 29:49LISA DESJARDINS: The president also formed
a school safety commission, led by Education -
29:49 - 29:51Secretary Betsy DeVos.
-
29:51 - 29:57But students at the U.S. Capitol today demanded
more concrete action to address their generation's -
29:57 - 29:58fears.
-
29:58 - 30:02CALIYAH RILEY, Student: We want people to
have that sense of comfort again and be able -
30:02 - 30:06to walk around the street and not have to
put your hands up all time because you see -
30:06 - 30:07a cop car.
-
30:07 - 30:10Enough of violence, enough of killing, enough
of being scared. -
30:10 - 30:15LISA DESJARDINS: This, as today, in Marion
County, Florida, another school shooting left -
30:15 - 30:17one student wounded.
-
30:17 - 30:19For the "PBS NewsHour," I'm Lisa Desjardins.
-
30:19 - 30:23JUDY WOODRUFF: And one postscript to Lisa's
report. -
30:23 - 30:28Students at Columbine didn't walk out today,
since classes are never held on the anniversary -
30:28 - 30:29of the shooting.
-
30:29 - 30:32But they are encouraged to participate in
a day of service. -
30:32 - 30:37And let's finish our look at this day with
the story of a student who survived Columbine -
30:37 - 30:3819 years ago.
-
30:38 - 30:44The "NewsHour"'s Student Reporting Lab at
Legacy Early College High School in Greenville, -
30:44 - 30:48South Carolina, interviewed physical education
teacher Lindsey O'Donnell. -
30:48 - 30:53She describes how she came to see mental health
and mindfulness as the keys to healing. -
30:53 - 30:56LINDSAY O'DONNELL, Teacher, Legacy Early College
High School: My name is Lindsey O'Donnell. -
30:56 - 31:01I'm a physical education teacher at Legacy
Early College in Greenville, South Carolina. -
31:01 - 31:04I was 17 years old during the Columbine shooting.
-
31:04 - 31:06It was my senior year of high school.
-
31:06 - 31:09My initial reaction was, I thought it was
a fire drill. -
31:09 - 31:10Someone might have pulled it.
-
31:10 - 31:12I thought it might have been a senior prank.
-
31:12 - 31:13We really didn't know.
-
31:13 - 31:17JIM LEHRER: High school shooting in Littleton,
Colorado, a Denver suburb. -
31:17 - 31:19At least 20 people were wounded.
-
31:19 - 31:30LINDSEY O'DONNELL: It was just chaos, people
running, just crying, hysterical. -
31:30 - 31:36It was shocking.
-
31:36 - 31:42It was just unheard of 19 years ago.
-
31:42 - 31:47I coped with the Columbine shooting mostly
through the support of my friends, my family, -
31:47 - 31:50and also through fitness.
-
31:50 - 31:56I became a physical education teacher and
a soccer coach. -
31:56 - 32:01When I was at Columbine, I wish I would have
known a little more about mindfulness, not -
32:01 - 32:02only for me.
-
32:02 - 32:04My friends would have coped with the situation
differently. -
32:04 - 32:10A lot of them coped with it through drugs
or alcohol. -
32:10 - 32:14Columbine was, like, the first big mass shooting.
-
32:14 - 32:18Nowadays, we have to practice lockdowns.
-
32:18 - 32:19And with that, students are stressed.
-
32:19 - 32:22They come to school scared.
-
32:22 - 32:24They're anxious.
-
32:24 - 32:30Every single day with my students, we start
our day with a five-minute mindful moment. -
32:30 - 32:34And by practicing mindfulness, it's not going
to eliminate school shootings. -
32:34 - 32:42However, fitness, mindfulness, and mental
health can help. -
32:42 - 32:52JUDY WOODRUFF: It was another news-packed
week. -
32:52 - 32:53In fact, it's still going on.
-
32:53 - 32:56And we have Shields and Salam to unpack it.
-
32:56 - 33:01That's syndicated columnist Mark Shields and
"National Review" executive editor Reihan -
33:01 - 33:02Salam.
-
33:02 - 33:04David Brooks is away.
-
33:04 - 33:06Gentlemen, welcome on this Friday.
-
33:06 - 33:10So, Mark, I want to point out, we have just
learned there is a Washington Post story just -
33:10 - 33:17moving that the attorney general let the White
House last weekend that, if the president -
33:17 - 33:22were to fire the deputy attorney general,
Rod Rosenstein, that he, Attorney General -
33:22 - 33:25Jeff Sessions, would have to step down.
-
33:25 - 33:28I guess the language is, might have to leave
his job. -
33:28 - 33:34So it looks as if there's still worry, concern
about the president's intentions, even though -
33:34 - 33:37he said he doesn't plan to fire these people.
-
33:37 - 33:43MARK SHIELDS: It's a happy, productive place
to work, the Trump administration, a feeling -
33:43 - 33:49of conviviality, trust, congeniality, and
mutual sense of mission. -
33:49 - 33:57I mean, as a personnel director, the president
is unrivaled as a disaster in the profession. -
33:57 - 34:04People who work for him work so in terror,
anxiety, unsure of what he wants to do and -
34:04 - 34:08what they're supposed to do, and whether they
will be there two weeks from now. -
34:08 - 34:12JUDY WOODRUFF: Reihan, it's just another element
in this ongoing saga. -
34:12 - 34:16REIHAN SALAM: I can't say we know exactly
where the story is here. -
34:16 - 34:20Were we to actually hear that there was some
move to fire the deputy attorney general, -
34:20 - 34:22that would be very big news.
-
34:22 - 34:26There would be very intense resistance from
many Republican lawmakers, as well as many -
34:26 - 34:29other figures in the senior ranks of the White
House. -
34:29 - 34:33So I'm not sure there is a story yet, but
certainly it's a sign that there are many -
34:33 - 34:37people in the White House who would strongly
discourage the president from taking such -
34:37 - 34:38a step.
-
34:38 - 34:40And he himself said that he had no intention
of pursuing it. -
34:40 - 34:41So, we will see what happens.
-
34:41 - 34:42JUDY WOODRUFF: Right.
-
34:42 - 34:45I think this was probably in the wake of that
-- it was in that several-day period when -
34:45 - 34:50we were hearing the president was very upset
and was thinking about or talking about firing. -
34:50 - 34:53But, as you said, nothing's happened yet.
-
34:53 - 34:56So let's move, Mark, to the story today.
-
34:56 - 35:00Democratic National Committee announces it
is filing a lawsuit against the Trump campaign, -
35:00 - 35:06against high Russian officials, the Russian
government and WikiLeaks for hacking into -
35:06 - 35:13the Democratic National Committee e-mail system
and essentially for stealing, they're saying, -
35:13 - 35:16corrupting the election in 2016.
-
35:16 - 35:19We heard Tom Perez a few minutes ago, the
chair of the party, say, well, one of the -
35:19 - 35:24reasons we're doing this is the statute of
limitations; we think there is evidence to -
35:24 - 35:26believe there was a conspiracy.
-
35:26 - 35:28Is it a smart move on their part?
-
35:28 - 35:31MARK SHIELDS: Well, we will find out if it's
a smart move, Judy. -
35:31 - 35:40Part of the problem is that it does have echoes
of Watergate, and without, right now at least, -
35:40 - 35:47the persuasive proof that the same set of
facts operated, where the president was intimately, -
35:47 - 35:50deeply involved in a criminal act.
-
35:50 - 35:52I would say this.
-
35:52 - 35:56Part of it is, I think, politics has become
litigation. -
35:56 - 36:01Politics has become lawyers and depositions
and whether you're going to testify. -
36:01 - 36:08And, you know, in that sense, it's not, at
least initially, exhilarating to those of -
36:08 - 36:15us who care about politics and policy and
legislation and righting wrongs and bringing -
36:15 - 36:16justice.
-
36:16 - 36:19But, you know, I can honestly say, I don't
know. -
36:19 - 36:21JUDY WOODRUFF: What do you make of it?
-
36:21 - 36:22What's the significance?
-
36:22 - 36:26REIHAN SALAM: Well, politics is becoming litigation,
certainly, but politics is also fund-raising. -
36:26 - 36:30That is especially true if you're the chair
of the Democratic National Committee. -
36:30 - 36:34One thing that is important to understand
is that American politics is very decentralized. -
36:34 - 36:38Typically, candidates raise their own money,
they have their own networks. -
36:38 - 36:42For the Democratic National Committee to be
influential and important, it has to raise -
36:42 - 36:43money.
-
36:43 - 36:47And one way fort DNC to raise its profile
is to do things along these lines that really -
36:47 - 36:52fires up the base and the small-dollar donors,
many of whom are very passionate about the -
36:52 - 36:53Russia story.
-
36:53 - 36:57Susan Hennessey earlier on this program explained
that they are setting a very high bar for -
36:57 - 36:58themselves.
-
36:58 - 37:02It's hard to see that they're really going
to prove these allegations in court, but the -
37:02 - 37:07litigation is definitely going to get the
DNC and DNC Chair Tom Perez in the news. -
37:07 - 37:10And I think that it's going to fire up a ton
of people to open up their checkbooks. -
37:10 - 37:14So, in that sense, I think it is a very shrewd
move for the DNC. -
37:14 - 37:16For Democrats more broadly, we will see.
-
37:16 - 37:17I'm skeptical.
-
37:17 - 37:18(CROSSTALK)
-
37:18 - 37:19JUDY WOODRUFF: Excuse me.
-
37:19 - 37:20I wanted to let you finish your thought.
-
37:20 - 37:24All this coming, Mark, in a week when we're
hearing so much about James Comey, his book, -
37:24 - 37:31and then today -- or last night, I guess,
the -- after urging by Republicans on Capitol -
37:31 - 37:36Hill, the Comey memos that he wrote after
his conversations with the president before -
37:36 - 37:39Comey was fired have now been made public.
-
37:39 - 37:42You have had a chance -- both of you have
had a chance to look at them. -
37:42 - 37:43Do they change anything?
-
37:43 - 37:49MARK SHIELDS: I can't -- other than perhaps
your opinion of the three chairmen who pushed -
37:49 - 37:51for their publication.
-
37:51 - 37:59They in no way conflict, at least in my reading
of them, with James Comey's own testimony. -
37:59 - 38:03They reinforce what he has said and what he
has written. -
38:03 - 38:10Now, I think Congressman Gowdy has said that
they're exhibit A for the defense for the -
38:10 - 38:15White House for any case of obstruction of
justice on the part of the president. -
38:15 - 38:19They're certainly not complimentary of the
president. -
38:19 - 38:21They're not inspiring.
-
38:21 - 38:24But they do reinforce what Comey has said.
-
38:24 - 38:28JUDY WOODRUFF: What do you see there, Reihan,
and also with the book -- coming out the same -
38:28 - 38:29week as the book?
-
38:29 - 38:35As Mark said, most people are saying they
are affirming what's in the book. -
38:35 - 38:38REIHAN SALAM: I agree with Mark's remarks.
-
38:38 - 38:42I think that, basically, this is entirely
consistent with what James Comey had said -
38:42 - 38:43before.
-
38:43 - 38:48Clearly, James Comey had serious misgivings
about President Trump long before he was elected. -
38:48 - 38:53And, also, it's -- now openly campaigning
against President Trump's reelection. -
38:53 - 38:56He's telling people that he wants American
voters to throw him out. -
38:56 - 38:58And the trouble here is this.
-
38:58 - 39:03If you are James Comey and you really want
to convince folks that President Trump should -
39:03 - 39:07be voted out of office, et cetera, the thing
is that you have to find persuadable people. -
39:07 - 39:11You have to find people who might be favorably
disposed to the president and persuade them -
39:11 - 39:12not to be.
-
39:12 - 39:14And the thing is that I'm not sure why he's
really doing that. -
39:14 - 39:18What we know now is that he's always had misgivings
about the president. -
39:18 - 39:21So, I think that that tends to reinforce this
narrative that he wasn't favorably disposed. -
39:21 - 39:23JUDY WOODRUFF: How do you see this?
-
39:23 - 39:26MARK SHIELDS: I will say this about James
Comey. -
39:26 - 39:29And he's certainly gotten criticism from a
number of quarters. -
39:29 - 39:34And I think he's earned it by including the
rather snide remarks about the president's -
39:34 - 39:40appearance and suntanning and hair color and
all the rest of it, which was petty. -
39:40 - 39:45It was mud-wrestling, getting down where Donald
Trump mud-wrestles. -
39:45 - 39:55But his statement uncontradicted in any way,
before the election, he revealed that Hillary -
39:55 - 40:04Clinton's personal e-mails were going to be
reopened, at a time when he and virtually -
40:04 - 40:08everybody in shoe leather and a majority of
people in the Trump campaign firmly believed -
40:08 - 40:10that Hillary Clinton was going to win.
-
40:10 - 40:13And he put that election in some suspense.
-
40:13 - 40:15The Clinton people blame him for it.
-
40:15 - 40:17The Trump people acknowledge what he did.
-
40:17 - 40:23And I have to say, it certainly wasn't -- it
was an act of some integrity, professional -
40:23 - 40:25integrity, for him to do that.
-
40:25 - 40:33The safe thing would have been to not say
anything at the time and, in fact, let it -
40:33 - 40:35happen and be reappointed.
-
40:35 - 40:39He was certainly putting at jeopardy his own
position, if, in fact, Hillary Clinton did -
40:39 - 40:45win, that he had tried to sabotage and submarine
her chances in the last week of the campaign. -
40:45 - 40:51So I think, right now, Judy, what we have
seen in the first week is that the two tribes -
40:51 - 40:58have formed, on the one side those who don't
believe James Comey, and those who do. -
40:58 - 41:01I don't know how many people are persuadable
on this issue at this point. -
41:01 - 41:09JUDY WOODRUFF: I want to ask you both, finally,
about former first lady Barbara Bush, who -
41:09 - 41:15was a remarkable figure, somebody with a sense
of humor, passed away this week. -
41:15 - 41:17Her funeral is tomorrow.
-
41:17 - 41:21Reihan, why do you think there's been such
a -- it seems to me -- there would have, of -
41:21 - 41:24course, been a lot of attention, but why do
you think there is particular attention right -
41:24 - 41:25now?
-
41:25 - 41:29REIHAN SALAM: Well, I have a little theory,
which is that a lot of us have women in our -
41:29 - 41:33lives, particularly mothers and grandmothers,
who came of age at a time when women's contributions -
41:33 - 41:37weren't necessarily all that valued, and the
way that women made that mark was in part -
41:37 - 41:41by serving their families, putting others
ahead of themselves. -
41:41 - 41:47And I think people looked at Barbara Bush
and see a very formidable woman, a very sharp-tongued -
41:47 - 41:53woman with an acid wit and also a lot of warmth,
who really helped build a political dynasty, -
41:53 - 41:57was an incredibly important part of that,
who didn't necessarily get all the spotlight -
41:57 - 42:00that she would have gotten otherwise, maybe
had she come of age at a different time. -
42:00 - 42:02So, I think that that resonates with a lot
of folks. -
42:02 - 42:07They see that this was a major talent who
had really a pretty big and deep effect on -
42:07 - 42:08the country.
-
42:08 - 42:12JUDY WOODRUFF: She was a -- Mark, she was
a wife and a mother, a mother of a president, -
42:12 - 42:13the wife of a president.
-
42:13 - 42:14MARK SHIELDS: That's right.
-
42:14 - 42:16JUDY WOODRUFF: We followed her over decades.
-
42:16 - 42:23So, she played the traditional role, as Reihan
said, but she did it with very much her own -
42:23 - 42:24identity.
-
42:24 - 42:25MARK SHIELDS: She did.
-
42:25 - 42:29And her death has, I think, touched something
in the nation that has surprised me. -
42:29 - 42:32I think the response has been national.
-
42:32 - 42:34I think there's a couple of factors, Judy.
-
42:34 - 42:41At a time when the debate about character
and fitness for office and the president rages -
42:41 - 42:49and continues to rage in the country, she
reminds us, as does her husband, of a time -
42:49 - 42:53when noblesse oblige, that sense of moral
obligation of those of advantage, those of -
42:53 - 43:00privilege to act generously and compassionately
toward those not so gifted, not so blessed -
43:00 - 43:04was central to our national leadership.
-
43:04 - 43:10At the same time, I agree Reihan's points
about she was -- she did have an acid tongue. -
43:10 - 43:12She was capable of that.
-
43:12 - 43:20But I remember the act of courage, a time
when the AIDS epidemic we had -- we were seized -
43:20 - 43:25in this country by ignorance and by fear,
if you shook hands with somebody with AIDS, -
43:25 - 43:26you could contract the illness.
-
43:26 - 43:27JUDY WOODRUFF: Back in the 1980s.
-
43:27 - 43:28MARK SHIELDS: That's right.
-
43:28 - 43:34And her predecessor, Ronald Reagan, the Reagans,
had been more than arm's length on this issue. -
43:34 - 43:40And, in fact, she left the White House and
went to a Grandma's House, which is a hospice -
43:40 - 43:45for infants afflicted with AIDS, and held
and caressed and comforted children. -
43:45 - 43:47And it was an act of just enormous courage.
-
43:47 - 43:53But I just think we yearn, there's a yearning
for what they represented, the marriage, the -
43:53 - 43:58family, that sense of duty, the sense of responsibility
that each of us has to our country. -
43:58 - 43:59And I think she just touched it.
-
43:59 - 44:02JUDY WOODRUFF: And we have gotten away from
that, haven't we? -
44:02 - 44:04REIHAN SALAM: We certainly have.
-
44:04 - 44:07JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, we certainly think of
her, we think of the entire Bush family at -
44:07 - 44:08this moment.
-
44:08 - 44:11Thank you both, Reihan Salam, Mark Shields.
-
44:11 - 44:12MARK SHIELDS: Thank you, Judy.
-
44:12 - 44:29JUDY WOODRUFF: Finally tonight, a story about
the power of man's best friend. -
44:29 - 44:35In a new memoir, poet and author Stephen Kuusisto
details his life-altering connection with -
44:35 - 44:36a guide dog.
-
44:36 - 44:42And, as Jeffrey Brown discovered, it was a
change that affected him both as a blind man -
44:42 - 44:43and as a writer.
-
44:43 - 44:46It is the latest from our "NewsHour" Bookshelf.
-
44:46 - 44:53JEFFREY BROWN: On the campus of Syracuse University,
a brisk wind and a very brisk walk. -
44:53 - 44:56STEPHEN KUUSISTO, Author, "Have Dog, Will
Travel": You know, most of my friends, even -
44:56 - 44:59my wife, who's very athletic, they can't keep
up with it. -
44:59 - 45:00(LAUGHTER)
-
45:00 - 45:05JEFFREY BROWN: It's a perfect match of man
and dog, 63-year-old Stephen Kuusisto, poet -
45:05 - 45:11and professor, and Caitlyn, a 4-year-old yellow
lab trained as a guide dog. -
45:11 - 45:16STEPHEN KUUSISTO: University campuses in general
are easier than strange cities. -
45:16 - 45:22JEFFREY BROWN: Kuusisto was born with a condition
that left him legally blind. -
45:22 - 45:26He describes his vision as having Vaseline
smeared on a lens. -
45:26 - 45:32The author of two volumes of poetry, his new
memoir, "Have Dog, Will Travel," traces his -
45:32 - 45:36own path, one that began as a child whose
mother wanted his blindness hidden. -
45:36 - 45:44STEPHEN KUUSISTO: My job was to really just
live without the kinds of assistance and accommodations -
45:44 - 45:47that I needed and to make it seem OK.
-
45:47 - 45:52JEFFREY BROWN: But the way you write, it at
least came off as a little worse than that, -
45:52 - 45:55as in, she made it feel shameful.
-
45:55 - 45:57STEPHEN KUUSISTO: She did.
-
45:57 - 46:04And you can't emerge with a good sense of
self-regard and become your own self-advocate -
46:04 - 46:05in that kind of dynamic.
-
46:05 - 46:09"The kid who couldn't see, he flew right up.
-
46:09 - 46:12His parents came.
-
46:12 - 46:15They banged on pots and pans.
-
46:15 - 46:22They hoped to get him back to earth, but they
were far below, and the boy was in the sky -
46:22 - 46:23of verities."
-
46:23 - 46:30JEFFREY BROWN: He describes a limited, small
life, a fear of anything new, including new -
46:30 - 46:31places.
-
46:31 - 46:35It wasn't until his late 30s, after losing
a job, that he came to a realization. -
46:35 - 46:39STEPHEN KUUSISTO: I'm not going to make it
in the larger world unless I know how to actually -
46:39 - 46:42navigate the larger world, and this is really
a crisis. -
46:42 - 46:47JEFFREY BROWN: The opening came through a
New York-based training school, where Kuusisto -
46:47 - 46:53was introduced to his first guide dog, Corky,
and embarked on a weeks-long process of learning -
46:53 - 46:54to work together.
-
46:54 - 46:57STEPHEN KUUSISTO: At first, I thought, well,
this will be easy. -
46:57 - 47:03You show up, they give you a smart dog, and
it's like picking up a car, and then you leave, -
47:03 - 47:04right?
-
47:04 - 47:05That's what I thought.
-
47:05 - 47:10And I didn't realize that you learn more about
dogs than you ever knew possible, one, and, -
47:10 - 47:18two, they are building you up, the trainers,
to feel not only that you can do this, but -
47:18 - 47:21that this was the life you were always meant
to have. -
47:21 - 47:26JEFFREY BROWN: As Kuusisto writes in his book,
the benefits of guide dogs arose from the -
47:26 - 47:29horrors of war, the First World War.
-
47:29 - 47:34Think of the famous John Singer Sargent painting
"Gassed," showing a line of soldiers, their -
47:34 - 47:35eyes bandaged.
-
47:35 - 47:40A German doctor, Gerhard Stalling, seeing
how dogs had performed under pressure on the -
47:40 - 47:44battlefield, began training them to help blind
soldiers. -
47:44 - 47:51The first guide dog school in the U.S., The
Seeing Eye, was started by Morris Frank in -
47:51 - 47:521929.
-
47:52 - 47:56The movement transformed many lives, including
Kuusisto's. -
47:56 - 48:02You describe the first time, when you were
just getting Corky, your first guide dog, -
48:02 - 48:03going into Manhattan.
-
48:03 - 48:04STEPHEN KUUSISTO: Right.
-
48:04 - 48:05Yes.
-
48:05 - 48:06It was amazing.
-
48:06 - 48:08That defied my capacity as a writer to fully
explain. -
48:08 - 48:13That feeling was so immense, to be able to
go to a jazz club, hop on the subway and go -
48:13 - 48:14see the Mets.
-
48:14 - 48:16JEFFREY BROWN: All things that you would not
have been able to do. -
48:16 - 48:18STEPHEN KUUSISTO: No.
-
48:18 - 48:19And I felt secure.
-
48:19 - 48:24JEFFREY BROWN: In the harness, Caitlyn is
all business, but the moment it comes off -
48:24 - 48:28at home, she's all play.
-
48:28 - 48:29Look at this.
-
48:29 - 48:30STEPHEN KUUSISTO: Get him.
-
48:30 - 48:31Get him.
-
48:31 - 48:34JEFFREY BROWN: In addition to his writing
and teaching, Kuusisto is also a strong advocate -
48:34 - 48:50for disability rights, working at Syracuse's
famed Burton Blatt Institute. -
48:50 - 48:55He regularly meets with other faculty and
students to discuss issues of the day. -
48:55 - 48:59MAN: People with disabilities doesn't mean
they're not capable of doing something. -
48:59 - 49:04JEFFREY BROWN: One topic during our visit,
the terminology associated with disabilities. -
49:04 - 49:09STEPHEN KUUSISTO: But this is why I don't
believe in the term assistive technology. -
49:09 - 49:11It's not just technology for the disabled.
-
49:11 - 49:14All technology is assistive technology.
-
49:14 - 49:19JEFFREY BROWN: Kuusisto himself uses a computer
program when he writes. -
49:19 - 49:25A voice reads his words back to him.
-
49:25 - 49:31And he recognizes a clear connection between
his poetry and the new world he found with -
49:31 - 49:32guide dogs.
-
49:32 - 49:36STEPHEN KUUSISTO: We all know, I think, those
of us who read and love poetry, that one of -
49:36 - 49:42the things poetry does well is to chart awakenings.
-
49:42 - 49:48There's that spiritual aspect to poetry that
is slowing down and a coming to real clarity -
49:48 - 49:50about something.
-
49:50 - 49:56And, as this book proceeded, as I'm writing
about what Corky and I did together, right, -
49:56 - 50:02I began to realize, this is about my opening
up and becoming a larger, more courageous, -
50:02 - 50:10open, curious, flexible, and outgoing person,
a person who I didn't know existed. -
50:10 - 50:14JEFFREY BROWN: Caitlyn is Kuusisto's fourth
guide dog. -
50:14 - 50:20In "Have Dog, Will Travel," he writes movingly
of the death of Corky, his original four-legged -
50:20 - 50:23companion, who died at age 13 in 2005.
-
50:23 - 50:29STEPHEN KUUSISTO: This is one thing I'm proud
of, that when she was lying there on the gurney -
50:29 - 50:35in the vet's office, and it was the final
moment, and I was about to burst into tears, -
50:35 - 50:42I realized this is a dog who has cared for
me and been concerned for me at every turn. -
50:42 - 50:46And I held her, and I sang to her our favorite
little walking song. -
50:46 - 50:49So, she died while hearing that.
-
50:49 - 50:51And then I fell apart.
-
50:51 - 50:58JEFFREY BROWN: For the "PBS NewsHour," I'm
Jeffrey Brown in Syracuse, New York. -
50:58 - 51:00JUDY WOODRUFF: Oh, my.
-
51:00 - 51:02Thank you.
-
51:02 - 51:08And before we go: Missouri Governor Eric Greitens
has been charged with felony for computer -
51:08 - 51:11data tampering during his 2016 political campaign.
-
51:11 - 51:17Charges filed today allege that Greitens used
the donor list from the charity The Mission -
51:17 - 51:20Continues without its permission.
-
51:20 - 51:24Greitens is already facing trial for invasion
of privacy for allegations that he took a -
51:24 - 51:30nonconsensual nude photo of a woman with whom
he was having an affair. -
51:30 - 51:34Later tonight on "Washington Week," Robert
Costa will be in charge. -
51:34 - 51:40He and his guests are going to discuss another
wild ride of a week in politics. -
51:40 - 51:45And that will be followed by "In Principle,"
where President George W. Bush recalls his -
51:45 - 51:51mother, Barbara Bush, and discusses his ongoing
work against AIDS in Africa, as well as whether -
51:51 - 51:56compassionate conservatism still has a place
in today's Republican Party. -
51:56 - 52:02Tomorrow, on "PBS NewsHour Weekend": the wave
of women running for public office, many of -
52:02 - 52:04them as Republicans.
-
52:04 - 52:10And, finally tonight, we want to welcome a
new addition to the extended "NewsHour" family. -
52:10 - 52:17NPR's Tamara Keith, part of our Politics Monday
team, delivered a newborn son early this morning. -
52:17 - 52:19Welcome to the world, Gibson.
-
52:19 - 52:20We cannot wait to meet you.
-
52:20 - 52:24Congratulations to Tamara and the whole family.
-
52:24 - 52:25And that is the "NewsHour" for tonight.
-
52:25 - 52:26I'm Judy Woodruff.
-
52:26 - 52:28Have a great weekend.
-
52:28 - 52:30Thank you, and good night.
- Title:
- PBS NewsHour full episode April 20, 2018
- Description:
-
Friday on the NewsHour, the Democratic National Committee sues Russia, the Trump campaign and WikiLeaks for meddling in the 2016 election. Also: James Comey’s memos released, The UN human rights chief on crises in Yemen and Syria, students stage another walkout to protest gun violence, Shields and Salam analyze the week's news and a blind poet details life with his guide dog.
Find more from PBS NewsHour at https://www.pbs.org/newshour
Subscribe to our YouTube channel: https://bit.ly/2HfsCD6
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PBS NewsHour podcasts: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/podcasts
Newsletters: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/subscribe - Video Language:
- English
- Duration:
- 53:06
![]() |
Alexandre Clemente edited English subtitles for PBS NewsHour full episode April 20, 2018 | |
![]() |
Alexandre Clemente edited English subtitles for PBS NewsHour full episode April 20, 2018 |