120308 コミュニティ・パワー会議 セッション2 オーナーシップと市民参加

コミュニティ・パワー会議 セッション2
2012/3/8

基調講演資料
http://www.scribd.com/doc/84684001

ディスカッション資料
http://www.scribd.com/doc/84684534

開催趣旨
固定価格買取制の施行を控え、国内各地で自然エネルギーに取り組む動きが加速しつつあります。小規模分散型の自然エネルギーは地域のさまざまな人々が協力し、ボトムアップで取り組みを進めていくことが重要となります。また、地域の資源を利用したエネルギーの利益が地域の人々に還元されるような仕組みを導入していくことも重要となります。このような地域エネルギーの考え方や取り組み方は、「コミュニティ・パワー」として世界的にも新たな潮流を創り出しています。コミュニティ・パワー会議では、国内外のコミュニティ・パワーの実践者や専門家と、これからコミュニティ・パワーに取り組む人々の対話を通じて今後の手がかりを探ります。
http://isep.or.jp/news/2328

基調講演
Stefan Gsänger（ステファン・ゼンガー：世界風力エネルギー協会、事務局長）

原 亮弘（おひさま進歩エネルギー株式会社、代表取締役）
保坂 展人（世田谷区、区長）
丸山 康司（名古屋大学大学院、准教授）
田宮 麻友美（casane・tsumugu、プランナー）

山下 紀明（環境エネルギー政策研究所、主任研究員）
http://isep.or.jp

Now I would like to start the second session,
the afternoon session.

We have two sessions in the afternoon.

Firstly, we have the second session

with the theme of
"Ownership and Public Participation".

Now we would like to have a keynote
for 20 minutes by Mr. Stefan Gsänger

who is the Secretary General of
the World Wind Energy Association.

After that, we are going to have
a panel discussion

with panelists like the previous session.

Now, I would like to introduce Stefan briefly.

Stefan is the Secretary General of the World Wind Energy Association

and has been playing the leader role of the development

of wind power penetration in the world.

World Wind Energy Association holds
the wind power conference every year

and there is an important session
or a working group

which is to increase the renewable energy

democratically in the region from now on

sharing experiences and achievements

of the communities around the world

with the theme of "Community Power".

He has been committing this group
where they have discussed

how to achieve it and what
concept we should have.

Please welcome the speaker,
Mr. Stephan Gsänger.

Now we are going to start the panel discussion.

So we would like to have the panelists on stage.

We enter the panel discussion
of the second session.

I am the moderator, Noriaki Yamashita,
Senior Research Fellow

of Institute for Sustainable
Energy Policies.

I am also enrolled doctoral program at
the Free University of Berlin in Berlin

although I live in Japan.

So Stefan and I might speak in German

but I will do my best
so that it might not happen.

The theme of the second session is
"Ownership and Public Participation".

We have asked him to speak as a keynote

concerning the community power movement
as seen from wind power.

And I want to have a discussion focused
on "Ownership and Public Participation"

with the people who have involved
various projects

in various positions and in various
areas not limited to wind power.

I think we have audience of about 85
at this conference today.

We are broadcasting this conference
on Ustream.

If you have anyone who wants to look
at today's conference later,

please inform him or her
to check the home page of

ISEP (Institute for
Sustainable Energy Policies).

The video of this conference
will be archived

as well as the past Ustream casts.

I want to go into the discussion
in the second session.

I think I want each panelist
to do self-introduction

concerning what he or she involves
in each region first.

We have panelists from
various regions in Japan.

Mr. Hara of the Ohisama Shimpo Energy
is from Nagano Prefecture,

and Professor Maruyama
who came from Nagoya today

involved in the project
in Aomori Prefecture.

We also have a Mayor, Mr. Hosaka
of Setagaya-ku in Tokyo.

And we have Mis Tamiya
from Akita Prefecture

who is a planner and has launched
a group called Kasane-Tsumugu.

I think we would like to have panelists
to introduce themselves

and what they have been doing.
And after that

we want to discuss from the viewpoint
of "Ownership and Public Participation".

First, we would like to have Mr. Hara.

Hello everyone.
Thank you for the introduction.

My name is Hara of
Ohisama Shimpo Energy.

I am from Iida City
in Nagano Prefecture,

in the south of the Shinshu.

The living area of Iida City is populated
by more than 105,000 people

and located around 500 meters above sea level.

This is an area of approximately
170,000 people

and of 1920 square kilometers

including neighboring towns and villages

so we have 170,000 people approximately

in the same area as Osaka Prefecture
or Kagawa Prefecture.

In fiscal 2004, in effect we might have
entered the fiscal year 2005,

we started the business in
the mechanism called citizen investment

raising funds and investing it to
projects to reduce CO2 emissions

and reduce to the investors
the profit produced from the projects.

We have used the mechanism of
the citizen windmill and citizen investment

which were launched
by Mr. Suzuki in Hokkaido

who has paneled in the previous
session in the morning

and we have raised five funds so far
by using these knowledge.

It has been 840 million yen approximately.

We have projects mainly of solar power

including energy conservation
and biomass so far

and we have installed solar power

of close to 1,440 kW at 210 sites
excluding ones under construction now.

The projects have been distributed
in various areas to reduce CO2 emissions

and to distribute the profit to
the people who have invested.

We have been promoting citizen investors
to come on the places

rather than simply investing

so that the business is working together
with local stakeholders and citizens

and we are doing business such that
local government is involved properly.

Thank you.
Next, Professor Maruyama, please.

My name is Maruyama.
Thank you for inviting me today.

As profession I have been involved
in research and teaching of sociology

in the Graduate School
of Nagoya University.

My theme of research is
how to have renewable energy

rooted better in the community.

Beside the research as profession
I aim to increase

the best practices of it
properly in Japan.

For me, this is as important
as the research as profession.

Not primarily because of this,
I am the board chairman of an NPO

which have built a so-called citizen windmill
in Aomori Prefecture.

I think I am a director of
power producer formally

So I am a sole social scientist in the world, I guess,

who is at the same time a director
of power producer.

I just mentioned the best practices
and good practices, im my opinion,

have to satisfy a lot of and
a wider variety of people.

Actually wind power is not
a terribly profitable business.

Of course it is possible
to earn a stable course.

But it is not yet incredibly lucrative.

So we focus on how to
produce value-added

besides a direct economic effect.

In our case of wind power in Aomori,

roughly half of the investment is local
public investment in terms of prefecture-level.

The remaining 50% is from large cities
such as Tokyo or Osaka.

In that sense it is half and half and
makes connections well among people.

Not only to return simply
the money of investment,

we have activities focused on
an effort to create a ripple effect

triggered by the windmill such as
the sale of agricultural products

of the region where windmill is located.

Thank you very much.
Next, Mayor Hosaka please.

I would like to explain it
using some of the powerpoint.

I am Nobuto Hosaka,
Mayor of Setagaya-ku.

Could you show the fifth page.

I became the mayor in April (2011)

after the accident of Fukushima
Daiichi Nuclear Power Station

of Tokyo Electric Power Company

when power saving has been
said to be crucial.

Can you see it?
It is something strange a little.

Sorry, I will fix it.
Yes, I continue disregarding it.

It has been said that
the power saving is crucial

and power outage might
happen at any time.

We wanted to know the actual usage
at a moment in Setagaya-ku

and the amount of electricity
TEOCO was able to supply.

I just tried to show people
so-called electricity forecast

which TEPCO is still doing

and can be seen on a computer screen
or on a smartphone .

We asked TEPCO to inform us
how much electricity

we were actually using in Setagaya-ku
in the electricity forecast.

We did various interactions
and they finally decided to give us

the total data of 23 wards of Tokyo and

we put it up to the home page
of Setagaya-ku.

This means that, oh, this is it.

Would you show the next page?

This is the data sent from TEPCO
to Setagaya-ku.

This is August 31 last year
at the height of summer.

It was pretty hot though.
This is the peak of 13.36 million kW

and the reduction target is the green line
and the blue line here is the actual usage.

It was clealy found in July already
that there was much room

even with the data of a fairly
wider district of 23 wards.

Known these above,
Setagaya-ku began considering

the introduction of PPS.
And page 9, please.

I made proposals to Mr. Edano,
the Minister of Economy, Trade and Industry.

We decided to change
the electricity company to PPS fromTEPCO

and the sum of the electricity
was 670 million yen.

There were reactions from the residents

saying they wanted to do the same thing at home
and wondered how they could do it.

I proposed to Ministar Edano that there must be
the reform of the so-called system

that generated electricity is distributed to homes

through the transmission line.

I also proposed him to expand
retail market liberalization

on which debate must continue
at this very moment

and to assist the affected areas
by means of renewable energy.

Setagaya-ku has interchange with Minami-Sanriku Town
and Minami-Soma City, for example,

and was determined to seek such institutional reform.
These are activities so far.

Something like that at the moment.

Thank you, Mayor Hosaka.

As the last panelist, we would like Mis Tamiya
to introduce herself

and to tell us about activities these days.

My name is Mayumi Tamiya and
I came from Akita Prefecture.

Thank you for inviting me.

First, I would like to introduce the situation
regarding renewable energy in Akita Prefecture.

When I tried to arrange all prefectures in the country

in abundance or potential of renewable energy,

I found potential of renewable energy of Akita Prefecture

is so big that it was the second place excluding Hokkaido.

Firstly it includes wind because very strong wind blows

in the coast of Akita Prefecture, and geothermal.

It also contains biomass of abundant forest resources

and the other biomass such as rice straw
and rice husk because

agriculture is also very popular
in Akita Prefecture.

Although winter is long actually,
the sun shines strongly in summer.

So solar PV has a very big potential. It is said at the prefectural level

that they consider to send electricity generated by renewables

directly to Tokyo in inter-regional cooperation.

I will talk about the situation of the region's population.

As I've looked at look at the numbers at hand,

the population of Akita Prefecture was 1.1 million in 2008.

Almost 10,000 people are declining every year.

Increasing decline of population has continued,

such as one municipality disappears every year.

Rapid decline of population
and aging are progressing.

Of course, There are some people who are very worried

about the survival of the village.

I returned to Akita two years ago after working in Tokyo

in the environment-related sector.

One of the big reason that young people
are not able to return is the fact that

there aren't sufficient jobs for young people
even if they want to do so.

Now I would like to talk about
my energy-related business activities.

In order to connect the regional industries
with consumers,

we are trying to make proposals
with original products of new design

using regional resources
such as food or forestry resources

in cooperation with designers and creators.

The sake industry in Tohoku area as a whole

was severely impacted
after the earthquake of March 11 last year.

There were a lot of 'kuramoto', sake breweries,

which were threatened to be out of business

under the influence of the accident of Fukushima nuclear plant.

In these circumstances, there was an idea

among the people especially among kuramoto
in Akita Prefecture

to organize an event to talk about sake

and to hear from kuramoto.

Some kuramoto wanted to talk
abount energy as well as sake.

I was happy to coordinate
to ask Mr. Tetsunari Iida of the ISEP

to appear at the talk event.

I don't think many people are quite interested
both in sake and in such things

like survival of sake and renewable energy.

By combining them together,
we managed to create a place

where sake lovers could think about
renewable energy and also

where people interested in renewable energy
could drink sake for the first time.

I might have contributed to it a bit.

In this kind of relationships
we started the seminar last month

mainly in Akita City in Akita Prefecture to learn

how to expand the regional ownership
of renewable energy.

It has just begun. It really has.
This is the situation right now.

Thank you, everybody.

I would like to have some comments
from Mr. Gsänger

concerning the four stories up to now.

He mentioned earlier that there were
also various types of citizen windmills.

Could you comment on this as well?

I want to go further into discussion.

It was mentioned in the first session today
that it was a matter of people.

The theme of the first session was
"Vision and Realization".

In order to think something and to achieve it, we have to think

who and how to do it and how to involve people.

The theme of this session is
"Ownership and Public Participation".

I think however that there is
considerable overlap between the two.

It is still quite worthwhile to hear
about each and every case.

So I want to do so
even if we have to repeat.

I would like to present these three
as the themes of today.

Firstly, difficulty and significance
of public participation

which has been discussed
much in the first session.

It is prone to talk a beautiful story
when we mention public participation however,

we want to share their experience in
various processes until it will be achieved.

Secondly, the importance of
human resources and networks

which were also discussed
in the first session.

Can you show the power point?

I talk with a lot of people at various
meetings in different places like this.

In every successful case there was
always the person at the very front,

like the one who is standing in front
of all the rest in this figure

who is dedicating 100% of time and
passion of life of his or her own.

But there must be the ones

who have been helping him or her
from behind

such as bankers, for example,
who are not in front.

People of municipality does not come in front either

and does not do with 100%
but support from behind.

Then there are others further behind
who help him or her with 10%,

like the ones who have
different professions

or the domestic workers

who help him or her in their spare time.

And much further behind, come also the ones

who are using 1% of
their own time and money.

I think the connection like this
is also very important.

Hopefully I want to hear about
not only the ones in front

but also the human resources
behind the scene,

like such a person was
unexpectedly helpful.

Thirdly, it can not be done
only by the strength of will.

It can be probably done with
the strength of will in most cases

to a certain extent,
but not in some cases.

Then we need mechanisms to help people
who are willing to make it done.

So what can be done by the government
or how can the government help?

We want to hear on these three points.

Please turn off the powerpoint.

Firstly, the significance and
the difficulty of public participation.

There are different perceptions
towards public participation.

So tell us your thought
about public participation

followed by the significance
and the difficulty.

I want to hear about raw experience
as much as possible

and it is much appreciated if it is
a lively and compelling story.

I think you inform us about it briefly
in about a couple of minutes.

A difficult question, though,
but as mentioned earlier,

a hundred people think in a hundred
different way, I think.

This is absolutely so.

Even though we share the same goal
to spread the renewable energy,

I think each and every person
surely thinks differently.

I think renewable energy is also
an important regional public goods.

Tons of people in the region,
local citizens,

are not only aware of it.
It is really not.

If I happen to be the one in front,

what I think I have to do by doing this

is to have them know it and notice

that it is to exploit the important
resources of their own.

I think I have to do that but
they are not quite aware of it.

That's what I have found difficult.

Professor Maruyama, please.

Speaking of the difficulties
of public participation,

it is terribly time-consuming.

In order to form a consensus,
or before that,

what people are thinking
for example basically?

it is a time-consuming process
to know it itself.

So that is a terribly difficult point.

And of course people are
not always favorable to us

and there are difficulties
in that sense.

Difficulty and significance
are two sides of coin.

We can not to tell what people think important
without asking them directly.

In my previous case, our aim
is to help the promotion

of the area with a windmill.

We may not know what they really want

without listening to them
over a decent time and effort.

Finally I found that they are
happy with windmills

only if it does help their agriculture

even though windmills
mean nothing to them.

I would not have known that
without doing it.

According to the network
mentioned earlier,

the part of 50%, in other words,

the mechanisms that support
operations such as

the finance, the maintenance
or the development,

I think they are very important.
Those who are supposed

to support the business
are often doing it by themselves actually.

Rather than helping the person in front

who are trying to promote
the region from behind,

they themselves are doing the business.

The fact that such projects
are increasing,

it is quite a difficult problem.

We will talk it later.
Thank you.

According to Mr. Takemoto
from Bizen City

who paneled in the first session,

there were people who listen to him
by no means.

In that case, all he did was
just to listen to anything they say.

You would find the path
to follow by doing so, he said.

I think that what
Professor Maruyama said

was meant to be exactly the same thing.

Next, Mayor Hosaka, please.

Setagaya-ku has a population
of 880,000 people,

but I think it now probably
exceeds 90 million.

It is very populous, though.

This is a large power consumption area.

Its residents' awareness
of the electricity is very high.

We decided to buy electricity from PPS

slightly cheaper than from
Tokyo Electric Power Company.

There are also a considerable number
of such people in this area

who want to buy renewable
energy power in their houses

or in apartments as a whole
where he or she lives

or wanted to buy in the joint
purchase if possible.

The strength we think we have
as a municipality is trust.

I'm willing to open a window
of opportunities

taking advantage of this trust.

We have launched a regional forum

that promotes the use
of renewable energy.

This is a framework which includes
all financial institutions,

all universities, which present
in the wards,

agricultural cooperative which
we actually have in Setagaya-ku

and various co-ops as well.

On one hand, there are people

who want to do the business
of renewable energy

which might be mainly solar PV panels
and solar thermal panels in Setagaya-ku

or might be in the form
of bulk purchase to spread it.

On the other hand, we would like to
support and cheer up the disaster areas

such as Akita Prefecture or
Nagano Prefecture, for example,

who are trying to launch
renewable energy power business

as employment measures as well,

by purchasing their
electricity selectively.

I think these two are our
mainstream at the moment.

The local government should rather
provide the precise information

than become a business principal.

I think information is very important
at this moment

because it's not obvious yet actual and

particularly detailed condition
of feed-in tariffs.

We think from the government's
perspective that we will support

the spread of renewable energy
as a whole

while holding forums or
symposiums frequently

which citizens can access freely.

Thank you.

I think only the cases of small
municipalities are often discussed

at a symposium like this
to promote renewable energy.

I believe that you have been
really motivated to hear Søren

in the first session.

I think you might not be able
to find what to do

when you come home in Tokyo.

I think that was often
the case up to now.

I think a lot of things are
visible recently what you can do

even you live in urban areas
as Mayor Hosaka mentioned.

He said they propose those things
playing a modest role

behind the scene in a decent manner

rather than playing the lead, I think.
Thank you.

Then, Ms Tamiya, please.

We will talk a very fresh story.

We began learning the concept
of "Community Power" in Akita

receiving lectures by people from ISEP.

We learned that benefit of projects of
renewable energy would rather go

to companies of large capital

headquartered in Tokyo or overseas
than fall in the local communities

without this concept of community power
even if there is potential much.

We noticed that large companies
withdraw if economy worsens

and we loose employment
even we have attracted them.

We began noticing that
the same thing would happen

without implementing the concept of
"Community Power"

and that we need local ownership.

This kind of discussion begins
to come out especially on wind power

but the leaders of the discussion
are often much larger senior

perhaps because the whole
communit is aging.

Assuming that the average age
of the team are the age of 60's now,

I consider that the main leaders
would be in their 70's

when the business starts successfully
in something like ten years time.

I have a sense of crisis that
the 30's would have to work

when I imagine the year 2050.

A lot of people have been increasingly
coming back strangely in sync

whom I can share
this sense of crisis with.

They don't know much
about renewable energy first

but I find their motivation is high

when we have the study session
or town planning.

I do not know what can be
done right now

but I am trying to involve people
younger than me as many as possible

while learning and sharing
information with them.

I have a big concern
that the form of community power

would be completely different
and that it would be determined

by the direction in which
the leaders choose.

I am very grateful to receive
this opportunity like this,

but the best and newest models
in the world

would not perhaps work and
even could not to be imitated as they are.

So there must be a lot of discussions
and twists and turns,

and even conflicts, which I
really don't want to call them so.

I think we have to take our time

because there are various people
with various opinions.

Thank you very much.

I would like Stefan to introduce
good examples overseas

of public participation regardless
of the size of municipalities.

I think I want to talk about human resources
and the network as second question.

Those who panel here might be in front
and speak out in various places.

Among their supporters there might be someone
whom they found unexpectedly important

or whose help had been very grateful.

I would like them to talk about these people
without mentioning their personal names.

I think the business entity doing 100% and the local
government are the two important actors, of course.

Who comes up in addition? This might be
the key people in the administration of course.

I think it can be organized into two.

First, this might be a very local story.

When I tried to launch the business
with the assistance of many people, I remember,

there were much more people of the opposition
including the municipality than those in favor of it.

I was advised to quit it and was
informed that it would be impossible.

But there were several people of the region or among
my drinking buddy entirely unrelated to this business,

who kindly told me that they would support me if I did it.

I think these words of them boosted my feelings.

Secondly, it is natural that people of the business
region work hard when you start it

but Is there anybody who has a wealth of knowledge
of renewable energy in the city of 100,000 people?

Or is anyone with such knowledge of legal issues
when you try to raise the investment or civil investment?

I am afraid there aren't unfortunately.

A person with such knowledge is
or should be always, but in Japan.

I have got the cooperation of those people
to be allowed to use their knowledge.

I think that these two above were very important

and they might be the big factors
that I might be able to stand in front.

Thank you. When speaking about town revitalization,
it is often said that there must be 'Three Actors'.

Outsiders, Young People and a Fool.
I am afraid that Mr. Hara might be a Fool in this context.

He would do it despite the opposite of all, it is a Fool.

There must be also those who support
from outside like us, Outsiders.

I think that people with young heart in the region would
also satisfy the condition of young people above,

actually people are helping him in his office now.

This can be applied to renewable energy projects
as to town revitalization. I thought it to hear him.

Professor Maruyama, please.

What I am going to tell you overlaps with the previous story.

People who are expected to play supporting roles
of business are very important, I think,

and they often play the lead in Japan
rather than supporting roles.

I think it is one of the circumstances
that makes the situation has become so difficult.

It might be the case in biomass
or small hydro or wind power,

it is often well done up to
construction phase,

but not in the following phase, especiall the maintenance
and business decision making

as well as managing business risks
are often surprisingly neglected.

I think those things are important.

Then I will talk about network and human resources.

Mr. Hara has been doing business locally
where he lives in his native town.

I was born in Tokyo and happened to live in
Aomori City at the time I stated the project.

The project was in a place called Ajigasawa
while I lived in Aomori City away from the site.

Human resources in the regional core city
like the prefectural capital are important,

and those networks are being maintained well also
in Aomori Prefecture like in Akita Prefecture, I think.

I think it is applicable without exception to all areas
that there surely exists such people

who can work for the region focusing on the future
of the region rather than self-interest.

Probably it is important to support them
creating mechanisms

or in terms of practical business matters.

I think the roles of citizens living in the prefectural capital
or universities they are considerably important.

They are described as
local public human resources recently.

There are people who can still help
in the local community.

Mr. Suzuki of Hokkaido mentioned
earlier in the first session

that you should do it anyway,

but those people are surely necessary
in business perspective

even if there are the one who dares to do it.

It is desirable this can be done in the region.

Next, Mayor Hosaka, please.

I think you are going to start now,
so I would like you to comment

also on the type of human resources you are seeking
or on the kind of people you want to find.

It is not yet obvious that the Japanese society
is either changed at a first glance

after the nuclear accident
and the earthquake of March 11

but I think it is because the next thing
has not come in the clear form.

I feel the sign of change from the ground up.

because attention to the regional forum of
renewable energy I mentioned earlier is very high.

Since I have been active as a politician
close to NPOs or civic movements,

I think that the achievements of people
who have come to open up

in tough conditions in NPOs
or civic movements are quite large.

Among 880,000 residents of Setagaya-ku,
there are several kind of people.

In the economic community of
the district, for example,

those whose ancestors had actually
lived in Setagaya in the Edo era

are influential men representing economic
organizations or agricultural cooperatives.

In that sense, there are influential people
in the old region of Setagaya.

Interest to renewable energy is high
even among those people.

Compared with those mentioned above,

there are new business entities
such as co-op, NPOs or citizen businesses,

while some of them lives in Setagaya-ku
for thirty or forty years

even they are said to be new,

each of these two are doing business in different shapes
sharing the same goal or cooperating each other.

As human resources, those who can surely
talk to the people of different positions

not having someone monopolize the information

but providing information fairly
are very important.

From the viewpoint of government,
in order to provide information impartially

to those of citizen business or of pure business,

government could by no means provide
exclusive information to a certain company.

I think this is a huge opportunity
regarding the market size.

In that sense those
who can connect government

with the business entities
and can properly communicate

with people of different social position
are fairly important.

Perhaps one of the reasons
why Mr. Hara could have done the business until today

is the fact that he lives in Iida City,

There are a lot of people who say good things
waving the flag and do not process practical matters.

If there are some who could do both of them
and do not seek self-interest,

our society might change drastically.

Thank you. Mentioned in the first session
when talking how to spread renewables,

there are opinion leaders even among this audience.

There must be about five opinion leaders among
a hundred people today. Søren Hermansen said so.

I think that it is also important to find such people
regardless of the scale, if it is small or big.

And he mentioned public mind.

Our director, Mr. Iida writes recently observing
Mr. Hara about three requirements of the leader.

First comes the public mind,
not to seek self-interest,

next comes a certain
proper sense of business

and third comes the confidence
earned in the region.

I think these are also important, how to find it.
We talk while drinking with something in mind.

I think we have it spread through briefings in various forms.
Then Ms Tamiya, please.

You talk about what people you want
or you can recruit through Ustream.

I want help from outside among the three which are
trust, business sense and public mind is business sense.

It is a practical matter. But I guess a practical matter

can supplement in the business base,
so it in fact does not come first.

I think that I want someone who could run with us
regardless from which region he or she is.

We can be connected a lot through social networks
and it is desirable to spread such a circle, I think.

There was a figure of followers
behind their leader shown earlier.

One of the reasons I was invited here, I believe,
was that there were greater leaders in the region.

They have been continuously appealing the potential
of renewable energies since before 311.

There are three citizen windmills even in Akita Prefecture
and they are said to be increasing.

There are those who have been doing such things
by very small number of people.

I have been frequently consulting them or talking
with them about various dreams such as

building at least one 100% citizen invested windmill
even in Akita City since about two years before

The fact I can follow them as their followers along
with other younger people, I owe it to them much.

I believe such people are important.

I am running a seminar with a help from young
people voluntarily who say it is very interesting.

They are much interested in being connected
with the world with the concept of "Community Power"

and they find so-called frontier of knowledge.
There are people who are frustrated with daily routine work

and are unhappy with their daily life in Akita
and have an intention to go out if they had a chance.

They come and help us.
I find they are very much helpful.

Thank you.

There is a phrase "Think Globally, Act Locally".

On the other hand Søren says "Think Locally, Act Locally"
and I think they are all linked.

We have about twenty minutes remaining,
so we would like to talk about mechanisms.

Besides the business risks
which you have to take by yourselves,

there must have been, among
the business activities until now,

various problems or obstacles related to the rules
of administrative rules both in local and national level.

I think that they have the experience so far
in overcoming those above.

I think there must be a wall and
there are many ways to overcome

such as smashing from the front
or taking a detour.

In addition to these above, I would like to hear about
such mechanisms which make things easier

or about mechanisms without which things might be easier.

We have heard much about
the role of local governments.

If you have something to add,
we are happy to hear that.

I would like to hear from Stefan
after hearing from every panelist around.

First we would like to have Mr. Hara.

I think collaboration with the local
government is absolutely necessary.

In our case, for example, I think there must have been
a lot of discussions in Iida City

when the local government
gives us the first permission

to use roofs of public properties
for the purpose outside.

The government have permitted us the long-term
outside purpose use for twenty years

for the business plan of our fund.
I think this was very large.

Iida City did not spend any money actually
but supported the citizen business

by such a mechanism. That was pretty significant.

We want to continue working on
similar renewable energy projects,

we have to extract business risks
and take measures to them

but there are known risks which cannot be
measured in business base.

It is also very important for the government

how to make mechanisms to support
the business on such risks.

I would like Mayor Hosaka to comment on this.

Speaking of the case of Iida City,
we often mention this long-term permission

for twenty years which is the first case.

Do you have experienced
the bureaucracy so-called vertical wall?

We have a lot.
It will be a concrete example.

Seven years after installation of solar panels,

unexpected re-roofing became necessary
which was not originally planned.

We had an agreement to cope with
these things like re-roofing

including prior discussions. But that has often
not been shared within the municipality.

The department in charge of the building and
technical department such as construction department

arbitrarily discussed and informed us
right before removing panels.

The new roofing they planned made
re-installing of solar panels impossible.

We talk with the government of Iida City
to share such information.

Thank you. Next, Professor Maruyama please

The most important rule, I think,
the government have to follow,

is that it will not do its own energy business.

With respect to the business like this,

a lot of know-how on the local natural
conditions should be accumulated.

This is not only technically but also socially.

It should not do it because officials in charge
are reassigned too often.

Mechanisms to encourage competition to promote
socially good business widely is another point.

Regarding wind power, impact
on the environment, for example,

can be reduced as close to zero as possible
if you spend time and money infinitely.

On the other hand, wind power business is no longer viable
as a business if you spend time and money infinitely.

There exists a mechanism at the moment

that the business would become profitable
if you ease up environmental measures.

It is important to make mechanisms such that
making agreement carefully and investigating carefully

make the business more profitable.

For example in Denmark, they ranks each area
based on the data present in public.

The area of a certain rank where the assessment is unnecessary

or that of another rank where one can venture
but might be opposed.

A decent business entity selects
the area of less impact.

It is very important to implement
a mechanism to promote good business.

I guess it is also important to support a good energy
from the market side such that, for example,

Setagaya-ku won't buy even the renewable energy
from the business entity who ignore the region.

In a certain sense Japan has accumulated
the experiences of organic farming or thereabouts

and those can be applied quite a lot actually to renewable energies.

Thank you.
The local government rather support

from behind by providing information,
for example, than do their own business.

And we can support by selecting the good one.

Mayor Hosaka, please.

How disastrous results the local government had
brought so far by doing their own businesses,

I often heard it from Mr. Iida.

Subsidy of 100,000 yen for
installing one solar panel unit

was actually abolished
from this year in Setagaya-ku.

Some people might think that we take one
step backwards from viewpoint of budget.

As I said earlier, we will try not to loose trust
by always providing accurate and timely information

and by holding regional forums of renewable energy
to share such information and by continuing these above.

There will be various deployments
quite probably after this coming summer

such as specialty shops of solar panels
advertising loudly opened by various companies

who think the opportunities are coming.

Some people say they don't know at all
how to determine when and where to buy.

There are some places like a consumer information
center in Setagaya-ku.

But for now, they don't have such knowledge
to be able to provide fair information

such as what to see to know good and bad points.

We have to train them so that
they could point out the check point

or the problem on the time of purchase
from consumers' perspective.

From now on we should offer rather space to
ambitious people or businesses than subsidies.

We should also offer space to venture companies
of energy conservation even it is not of renewable energy.

Space is crucial for companies in the launch phase,
especially in the location like Setagaya-ku.

I think if they could do this as an industrial policy
and for the utilization of vacant store or vacant house.

There is already a certain activity called
Town Planning Trust Fund

and this raises funds for other
ambitious businesses or citizens.

I think we can consider a fund to support
such citizen businesses in this field.

The administratives mechanism
to cover at the time of such disaster

should be built-in in the stage like now.

It is absolutely impossible to cover only a certain field
when something disastrous has happened.

So we are happy to hear you from the field and
we will have to find a way in various means.

Thank you.

Speaking of information, I am also
a part-time lecturer at a university.

I asked to students for ideas of mechanisms
to promote renewable energy,

and one of the ideas was a renewable energy electricity
version of "Kakaku.com (a price comparison site)."

It is still important to organize information.

What mentioned at the end might become
the renewable-energy-related town planning.

It is very important because it could become
the opportunity to remove the vertical wall.

Lastly, Ms Tamiya, please.

We don't have a direct relationship much
with local governments yet.

I think it might be a challenge in the future
we have to accept.

But I think municipalities which happen to have
mayors like the mayor of Setagaya-ku

who can lead the people in the area
could make much progress.

But there are many municipalities
which don't have such leaders.

I want to seek good ideas from a variety of people
to approach the latter municipalities.

I have spoken as Mayor of Setagaya-ku while ago
but I forgot to say something.

I believe there must be many municipalities throughout
the country which are preparing something in this field

and people of ISEP are supposed to know the best
which municipalities are preparing what.

Basic municipalities have to work
together to exchange ideas

from both power producers and
consumer sides which are different.

I think a so-called exchange forum
could be fairly helpful.

I think we take it as our homework.
Thank you.

I would like to hear from Stefan in response to
the efforts we have heard until now.

There are mechanisms which support renewable
energy projects in the region, for example,

a condition of investments in Denmark that investors
must be from local municipalities.

Could you comment on such mechanisms
or a role of local governments

to promote local renewable energy projects if any?

Thank you. We have only five minutes remaining.

So please alIow me to cancel the questions
from the floor in this session.

Lastly, we have been doing this session
with the theme of "Ownership and Public Participation".

I would like to hear someone who have
something else to do from now on,

or something in terms of public participation.
Is there anyone to speak up?

It is a future outlook.

This might be a plan you want to do,
or the next business or project.

Is this too difficult all of a sudden?

Do you have anything, Mr. Hara?

In this fiscal year, we have expanded so-called
zero yen system a little beyond Iida City

and I hope we could promote this across
the region of south Shinshu.

Until now in case with subsidies or using
so-called zero yen systems with no subsidies,

it has been limited to individual housing.

After this coming July when feed-in tariffs begins,

we are going to try so-called
distributed megawatts system

which several sites collectively generate megawatts
in cooperation with the leading companies of the region.

That is the goal at the moment.

At the start of feed-in tariffs finally,
I think we will try a lot of things

to increase momentum taking advantage
of the timing at least in Setagaya-ku.

It includes Symposiums held by the private sector.

Of course, what we are talking here is quite hard
for general residents to grasp precisely.

The most obvious point is the fact
that the municipal office is connected

to the electricity company other than
Tokyo Electric Power Company.

This made people think whether they
might be able to do the same.

We are just asking the Ministry
of Economy, Trade and Industry

to let us do the test model case of
joint purchasing of renewable energy

which might be just an experimental project ahead of schedule.

If it becomes visible that general households elaborate
how to choose electricity

and eventually choose green power, it would spreads out fast.

We will do our best because I think
that wall is also a little thick.

In this session we have received feedback from a variety of
positions in a variety of information about cases.

On the figure shown at the beginning of the session,
there are people like Mr. Hara and Professor Maruyama

who dedicate a hundred percent.

And there are also those who support from behind
and there were a wide variety of positions,

of various professions in a variety of relationships.

It is possible not because they
are in smaller municipalities.

They also have difficulties to some extent

and have been done amazingly.
On the other hand,

it does not mean that there is nothing we can do
because we live in the city.

I think that we could have shown the fact that
we have a variety of choice using various information

and that we can participate in various proportion
of renewable energy projects in this regard.

Stefan has demonstrated the global trend,
then that "Ownership and Public Participation"

affect much not only the flow of money
but also that of feeling,

and that the community is very important
for the project of renewable energy.

I would like to end this session now.
I hope the applause for the participants, please.