HSS_2019_Q4_EP12

♪ theme music ♪

(Derek) Welcome to Hope Sabbath School,

an in-depth, interactive study

of the Word of God.

We are coming toward the end

of a series on Ezra and Nehemiah,

that's the fifth century, B.C.,

a Jewish priest and a Jewish exile

who was a Persian court official.

God used them to do

some mighty work for Him,

and there are principles

that we will learn for our lives today.

Today, Dealing with Bad Decisions,

particularly related to marriage,

but I'm praying that this

would not be a negative study,

but it would give positive instruction

wherever you are on your journey with God.

So, welcome to Hope Sabbath School.

Good to be together again,

and I'm excited about this topic

because I feel like it's really relevant

for our lives today.

And wherever we are in our journey,

the Word of God is a lamp
to our feet, right?

We're glad you're part

of our Hope Sabbath School family
wherever you are,

always happy to hear from you.

Here's a note from Morgan in Mississippi

in the United States of America.

Morgan says, "I'm writing

because it's long overdue.

I discovered Hope Channel

for the first time on DirecTV 368

in January of 2018.

I must admit I'm learning

more about the Bible than ever before."

(Team) Amen.

(Derek) "I love the interactive
and teaching approach

that you present to all listeners.

It's been a joy and a blessing

since I started watching

Hope Sabbath School.

I live in the U.S. in Mississippi.

I grew up attending

a local Baptist church, sometimes;

however, my family never

honored the Sabbath day

nor were we active, serious followers
of Jesus.

As I became older, I began

to seek Jesus for myself."

(Team) Amen.

(Derek) "And I have not been disappointed.

So I'm still seeking Him everyday.

And when I became aware of Hope Channel,

it was a blessing to me,

especially Hope Sabbath School."

Well, Morgan, we're just glad you're part

of our Hope Sabbath School family, right?

And we're excited that God is leading you

into a fuller understanding of His truth

and His plan for your life.

Here's a note from Joe in Zambia,

"I greet you in the name

of the Lord Jesus."

That wasn't too encouraging.

Greet him in the name
of the Lord Jesus!

"My name's Joseph from Lusaka.

I want to thank you

for Hope Sabbath School

and the work you're doing.

Keep up the good work.

It keeps me glued to the TV

to know more about the Kingdom of Heaven."

(Team) Amen.

(Derek) "The explanations are distinct

and clear for all to understand.

May God keep blessing you

abundantly with wisdom

and spread the Word everywhere. Amen."

(Team) Amen.

(Derek) I want to meet Joe;

He's an enthusiastic fellow.

Banks writes from Canada;
Any Canadians here?

Yes, Adison, a Canadian.

He's on the other side
in Gatineau, Canada.

(Adison) Quebec?

(Derek) Quebec, Banks St. Fleur,

"I'm speaking to you in Gatineau.

I have a great privilege

to find you and your group

in that marvelous work,

an interactive study of the Word of God.

What a beautiful thing to serve Jesus!"

(Team) Amen.

(Derek) "I am praying that Jesus

can help us to stay close to Him,

even with what's happening

around us in the world. Blessings. Amen."

(Team) Amen.

(Derek) I think that may have been

second language, French-speaking Quebec?

(Adison) Oui.

(Derek) We're glad, Banks,

that you could write to us and that you're

part of our Hope Sabbath School family.

Here's a note from a donor,

"I'm enjoying the lessons

on Hope Sabbath School,

learning and understanding more.

You bring things to light

and make it easier

to understand the Bible."

(Team) Amen.

(Derek) "Thank you for all the work

that you do to bring the program

to so many around the world.

I watch Hope Sabbath School

three times every week,"

and a gift of 35 dollars

to help the ministry.

You know, all of us working together

is what makes the miracle happen,
isn't it?

Thanks so much to our donors

for your prayers and your support.

One last note, from Marita in New Zealand,

way on the other side of the world.

"I would like to thank you

for your discussions,

which sometimes make me laugh

and other times make me cry; that's life.

The team, with many different members

from all over the world,

working together for the whole family,

what a great blessing you are.

I would like to give

special thanks to Bodil.

She works behind the scenes,

always in the background, but very present

through her Scripture songs."

(Team) Amen.

(Derek) "To put music to the Bible
is great.

I'm singing often during the day

the songs I learn on Hope Sabbath School."

(Team) Amen.

(Derek) "How easy to remember the Bible

when you put it to music - fantastic!

I look forward to singing

with all the saints

when we are in Heaven."

Well, Marita, we need you

to sing with us right now.

We have a 3,000-year-old Scripture song

my wife, Bodil, put a new tune to,

and it says, "To You, O Lord,

I lift up my soul.

O my God, I trust in You."

Let's sing it together.

♪ music ♪

(Derek) I was just thinking
while we were singing,

maybe we'll be in a difficult situation
somewhere,

and instead of going, "Oh! Oh!"

we'll just start singing,

"To You, O Lord...," and the people

will be like, "Oh!"

God may send an angel

on either side of us.

God is able to care for His children,
isn't He?

And one of the things

that we're learning,

whatever we're facing in life,

is to call upon the name of the Lord.

Today, Dealing with Bad Decisions,

what better thing to do

than call on the name of the Lord.

So let's pray together right now.

To You, O Lord, we lift up our souls.

We want to thank You,

that You, through Your prophets

and most of all through Your Son, Jesus,

have taught us the way to live

and the way of salvation.

And most of all, You've revealed to us
that You love us

with an immeasurable and unfailing love.

And I pray, as we look

at Dealing with Bad Decisions,

that You would give, not only counsel

to redirect our path in a healthy way,

but an awareness of how much

You love us on our journey;
and I thank You.

In the name of Jesus. Amen.

(Team) Amen.

(Derek) Well, I'm sure

there were many bad decisions

that were being made

in the time of Ezra and Nehemiah,

just like there are today,

but both Ezra and Nehemiah

focus on one bad decision

that had broad consequences.

And we're going to start

with Nehemiah's account

in Nehemiah, chapter 13, verses 23 and 24.

And, Stephanie, would you begin our study,

verses 23 and 24 of Nehemiah 13.

(Stephanie) I'll be reading

from the King James Version:

(Derek) So, a problem here

is that there is what?

(Nicole) Intermarriage.

(Derek) Intermarriage with...?

(Team) Nonbelievers.

(Derek) Not just people of other nations,

but people who worship false gods;

that's the real challenge.

And, Adison, look down

in that same chapter for us, in verse 28.

I wouldn't say, "to make matters worse,"

but to compound the problem,

what does Nehemiah tell us

in verse 28 of chapter 13?

(Adison) I'm reading

from the King James Version:

(Derek) Now, you remember

this fellow Sanballat the Horonite.

Summarize his character in a short phrase.

What would you say?

(Travis) Troublemaker.

(Derek) Troublemaker and...?

(Jason) Enemy.

(Derek) Enemy of God!

Opposer of the things of God.

And apparently his relative

married a relative of the high priest.

So, it's all the way up

to the top leadership in the community,

this problem of intermarriage.

Let's see how Nehemiah responds, Gary,

if you'd take us, in the same chapter,
verse 25.

And I know these are startling words,

but what does Nehemiah do?

(Gary) Okay, I'll be reading

from the New King James Version:

(Derek) Now, before we do an evaluation

of whether you think it was a good thing

to curse them, strike some of them,

pull out their hair,

what illustration does he give

of the detrimental effect

of marrying - taking spouses -

who worship pagan gods?

Well, let's look and see.

Travis, would you read,

same chapter for us,

Nehemiah 13, verses 26 and 27.

(Travis) I'll be reading

from the New King James Version:

(Derek) So did God love Solomon?

(Team) Yes.

(Derek) Did marrying pagan spouses
impact his life?

(Team) Yes.

(Derek) Absolutely.

Devastating consequences, right?

Not just setting a poor example,

but building pagan temples

and even, doesn't Scripture say,

drawing his heart away.

And wasn't that a sin?

He says it was a sin, right, to do that.

Why? Because they...?

They knew better; they knew

what God had asked them to do.

But I've got to stop and ask,

how does what Nehemiah did,

how does that reflect

the teaching of Jesus?

In Matthew 5:43-45, that's where it says,

"Love your enemies, bless those
who curse you,

do good to those who spitefully use you
and persecute you."

And isn't there somewhere else

in the Sermon on the Mount

where it says, "Treat others..."?

(Adison) The Golden Rule.

(Derek) The Golden Rule, right,
Matthew 7:12,

the way you would like to be treated.

So, what do you think, Jonathan?

I mean, it's fairly intense,
wouldn't you say?

He struck some; he cursed them.

I'm sure that doesn't mean

he used foul language,

but he said, I guess, what,

"The curse of God be upon you,"

or hit them, he pulled some of the hair

out of their beards?

(Jonathan) I guess, reading it,

it does seem like maybe he's

not acting out of cautious principle,

maybe a little bit out of emotion.

But at the same time, I wonder, okay,

when you have a child or some place

where you need to set down
strong discipline,

there certainly is a time

for maybe doing things

that one might say, "Well,

was that loving your neighbor?"

Well, if you look in the largest sense
of what it was,

destroying these people's lives

and the whole community's lives,

maybe it's a different angle

on how you evaluate that.

(Derek) All right, you might say,

if you saw me heading

down a destructive path,

and you really cared about me,

you might do whatever it takes
to wake me up -

Malaina, what do you think?

(Malaina) I think that sometimes

you need to come at it

with love and care,

but if that approach doesn't work,

and sometimes it doesn't

always work on people,

you kind of need to hold them accountable

and be like, "What you're doing is wrong,

and it's going to lead

to even worse consequences."

And I think that's what Nehemiah

was trying to get at.

And maybe it was a little intense,

but he was really hurt by that, so...

(Derek) We always need to be careful

that we don't judge people

because we don't know

all the details, right?

You know, he might have said,

"I told you last week,"

or, "I told you a month ago,

and you just took

three pagan wives," or whatever.

So, we don't know all the details,

but we would all agree

that he cares about what's happening

and the negative consequence. Stephanie?

(Stephanie) Right, and I guess I would say

we would want to use caution

not to use this as an excuse for abuse

in a relationship or anything
of that nature, your child...

(Derek) Yeah, there is

such a thing, isn't there...

What do they call it

when a spiritual leader abuses...

(Thomas) It's an abuse of power.

(Derek) An abuse of power, that's right,

whether that's abusing people physically

or sexually or psychologically

or, I guess, in a religious way, right?

So you're saying, "Well, he hit people,

and he pulled their hair out,

and it's in the Bible,

so I can do that to people, too."

You would not see that as an example,

but what I hear Malaina saying is,

feeling intense about this

and doing what it will take to stop them,

we maybe need to contextualize that
into our culture?

What do you think, Travis?

(Travis) First off, if I was a leader
in a church or something,

I would never pull someone's hair out
and beat them; I just wouldn't.

I would have to take a different approach.

(Derek) Even if you felt very intense?

(Travis) I just wouldn't.

But we don't know the culture,
as you said.

But then I think about the verse

in the Bible where Jesus says,

"To those I love, I rebuke and chasten."

Nehemiah had a passionate love,

and he knew the consequences of this

would be the death of people.

So, pulling some hair out, you know,

doing something like that might be better

than them dying later on, too,
so I don't know.

(Derek) Maybe he said,

"I love you, brother" (yank).

One thing's clear; go back

to Deuteronomy, chapter 7;

they knew what God had asked them to do.

Deuteronomy, chapter 7,

Heide, if you have that, and you'd read

the first three verses for us

of Deuteronomy, chapter 7.

It had been clearly told to them

that God didn't want them

to do these things.

(Heide) All right, I'll be reading

from the New King James Version,
and it says:

(Derek) Very clear instruction

that God had given,

and they're disregarding that.

Now, before we go on

and see what's happening in Ezra

and what he shares,

let's broaden it out,

dealing with bad decisions.

Let's go beyond just taking

an unbelieving spouse,

and let's say they knew

what God taught, Nicole,

but they did something
completely opposite.

That could happen in many areas of life.

Why do people do that?

Now, we're not talking

about the people that don't know.

We're talking about the people

that know what God's asking them to do,

and they do the exact opposite.

Why do they do that?

Or maybe I should say, why do we
do that sometimes?

(Nicole) I think part of it
is self-gratification.

We believe that we know best

what is good for us and what we like,

and so, therefore, we engage in activities

that God tells us not to engage in

because it gives us gratification
of what we want right now

because we're in a very "microwave,"
we call it, society.

And so, rather than wait on God

to give us the great blessings
He has in store for us,

we want to gratify ourselves today.

(Derek) So, "God, I know
you've given this,

but actually I know better
in this situation"?

And the angels go, "Oh, no!" right? Gary?

(Gary) Just to piggyback

off of what Nicole said,

it's a lack of faith

and a lack of trust in God's words.

I mean, we can't see beyond what we see,

and because of that,

and God can see the future,

He's saying, "Look, you can't see it yet,

but this is going to be really bad.

Just don't entertain it."

And we are just captivated by what we see.

(Derek) And what we've learned

from our whole discussion

is God's direction in our lives
is motivated by...?

(Team) Love.

(Derek) He loves us, right?

He's like, "That is going

to be destructive." Jonathan?

(Jonathan) To his point,

it's hard when you see things

It's like, "Okay, this makes sense to me."

It's very hard to go

based on the small little thing

you can barely see of, "Okay,

God is faithful; He knows,"

and you have to go,

based on things you cannot see,
which takes faith.

(Derek) There is a text in the Proverbs

that says, "There is a way
that seems right."

I didn't really understand this

when I was little.

Now I understand, it actually looks right,

"But the end thereof is the way of death."

We don't see that, and so, sometimes

we may do something directly contrary.
Travis?

(Travis) I think, too, it's good

to remember that we're not

in the Garden of Eden;

Satan isn't limited to a tree;
he's all over.

He's got shiny pearls everywhere.

And so, as we're walking,

you'd said earlier, the Bible

is a lamp and a light.

"Lord, is this okay?" and we need

to be in constant communion,
"Is this decision okay?"

"Is this decision okay?"

As soon as we get away from that,

we start trusting in ourselves,
as Nicole said.

And then we're challenged

with the decisions we made,
or the consequences

of our own decisions without God.

(Derek) And certainly the Bible

has some great principles for us.

How does a community -

Church is a community of loving people -

how does that help us, Chris,

can I say, to protect us from things

we may not see immediately?

(Chris) There are so many

different types of people in a community.

There are people that are older than us,

people that are wiser than us,
people that have

been through different experiences,

people that have made the mistakes
that we might make.

And because of that, they can lead us

and guide us and show us, "Hey,

I've been down that road.

I understand how you feel,

but just realize that your feelings

are going to lead you to this place,

and you don't want to be here."

(Derek) So God may use people, too,

in order to guide us. Evelyn?

(Evelyn) These communities

allow individuals to find mentors.

Everyone needs a mentor in their life.

And so, churches, families,

they should all be accountable

for each other in this way.

Mentors are really the people

you should turn to and say, "Hey, I have

this in front of me; what should I do?"

(Derek) Probably finding a mentor

in a Bible study group

or worshiping community

rather than a bar or a club of some kind,

you know, because you're finding someone

who is at least seeking

the way of God, the Word of God.

We looked at Ezra;

excuse me, we looked at Nehemiah, right?

Now we're going to look at Ezra.

And, by the way, they're

not that far apart in years, right?

They're kind of contemporaries.

In fact, remember at the beginning

of our study we shared that in Judaism

Ezra and Nehemiah, they're together.

Ezra and Nehemiah, right,

and in the Septuagint

they put them together

because they're that same time period,

the second wave, if you will,
of exiles coming.

Let's go to Ezra, chapter 9,

verses 1 and 2, and let's see

a problem reported to the priest Ezra.

Evelyn, if you have that, would you read

the first two verses of chapter 9 of Ezra?

(Evelyn) Yes, I'll be reading

from the New Living Translation:

(Derek) So, did you notice

there's not just one example

of this fellow's grandson

who married this son-in-law,

but it names specifically what...?

(Team Member) The leaders.

(Derek) Yeah, didn't it say

priests and Levites were part of those...?

Not all of them, obviously,

but some of them were also offending.

Now, let's see...and, Malaina,

maybe you could read on

in chapter 9, verses 3 and 4...

Let's see how Ezra responds -

you know what I'm going
to say, don't you? -

how Ezra responds compared

to how Nehemiah responded

because it was serious

in both settings, wasn't it?

And maybe there's no right
or wrong response

except to feel passionate

about following God, right?

Malaina, let's look at verses 3 and 4.

(Malaina) I'll be reading

from the New King James Version:

(Derek) Jonathan?

(Jonathan) It just does seem

that his approach does more

to appeal, maybe, to a motivation

of those, like, all those

that felt the same gathered around him.

Like, maybe it had more of an ability

to draw out their conviction
in a better way?

(Derek) Jason, what do you think?

You saw a difference, obviously, right?

(Jason) Yes, there's this self-reflection.

So, instead of immediately going out
and attacking,

he kind of looks at, "Okay, God,

what's gone on here?

What is the situation,

and how can I respond?"

Kind of, he has this communication

almost, you could say, with God

in spending this time.

(Derek) Uh-huh. Anybody else?

If not, let's go to chapter 10.

Stephanie, I know you're processing that.

You have to say probably there was

no textbook saying, "This is
how to respond."

Different personalities, but both

very passionate, like, "This isn't right."

God said, "Don't do this,"

and all the way up to priests and Levites

are doing it, right?

Chapter 10, verses 5 and 6,

Nicole, do you have...?

We're in Ezra still,

chapter 10, verses 5 and 6.

Let's see how he continues to respond.

(Nicole) The New Living Translation

of Ezra 10, verses 5 and 6 says:

(Derek) When you hear

that "ate and drank nothing,"

what comes to mind?

(Team) Fasting.

(Derek) Fasting and...? And prayer, yeah.

I think, Jason, you kind of described it.

It's very much...He's trying

to deal with this with God.

He's fasting and praying
over this situation.

(Jonathan) It makes me think

of Gandhi in some sense,

not a direct correlation,

but Gandhi went for a long time

without food and water

in a sense trying to appeal

to people's conscience.

And so, maybe in a somewhat similar...

(Derek) Sure, you're thinking

in the 20th century a leader that,

instead of using aggression, he uh...

(Jonathan) Appealed to their conscience.

(Derek) He appealed to them

by how much he was grieving

over the abuse that he saw.

Certainly other places in Scripture

where people ate and drank nothing

in connection with seeking God,

help me, some other stories, Gary?

(Gary) The Ninevites after Jonah came.

(Derek) That's right, after Jonah says,

"God's going to destroy this city,"

they repented with fasting. Yes?

(Team Member) Saul/Paul.

(Derek) Saul, for three days

after he encounters the risen Christ.

And a contemporary of Ezra and Nehemiah,

namely Queen Esther

who asked all of the people,

including her uncle Mordecai,

to eat and drink nothing for three days,

to fast and to pray.

So I don't think it's reading

too much into the text

to say that he wasn't just going
on a health diet,

but this was really fasting

and praying and seeking God.

So here he is, dealing

with a difficult situation.

At this point, I guess he's

done something external, what's he done?

What did you read?

(Team Member) Pull on his beard?

(Derek) No...He's done

some things internally, introspectively...

(Nicole) He told the Israelites
to swear...

(Derek) He did; he called

the leaders, didn't he?

We read that; the leaders

of the priests and Levites,

verse 5 of Ezra 10.

But very much, and I think

we see this with Nehemiah, too,

bathing this whole thing in prayer, right?

Why is that important?

We're talking about trying

to resolve a bad situation.

Why is prayer so important, Evelyn,

when you find yourself

in a situation like that?

(Evelyn) Because we know

that God is the One who stores wisdom,

and we need to be on our knees

and ask Him, "God, give me

that gift of wisdom.

Help me figure out

this terrible situation,

help me know how to handle this."

And God really is Someone

who uses the Holy Spirit to inspire us.

(Derek) Yes, Nicole. Thank you.

(Nicole) I would also say that people

make a decision and they stick to it,

and they want to know

that they're right in their decision.

It's hard to tell them, "You're wrong
for what you've done."

We need to have prayer and the Holy Spirit
helping us with our words

to be able to reach someone
that's made a decision

that they believe is right and that they
want to make.

(Derek) And sometimes,

like Malaina said earlier,

it takes courage to go to someone

and say, "Brother, let me tell you

where you'll end up

if you go down that road."

Like Chris was saying,

"I've been down that road,"

or, "My parents went down that road,"
or whatever.

Sometimes that takes courage,
right? Travis?

(Travis) Desperate times

call for desperate measures.

This is a God-sized problem.

This isn't a leaky faucet

that I need a wrench to go fix.

This is something that he

cannot handle on his own.

So, when you have a God-sized problem,

you have to fall on your knees.

(Derek) Yeah, and seek wisdom

like Evelyn said. Jonathan?

(Jonathan) I think, as well,

that sometimes we, when we're
in situations like that,

we can make things worse

if we're not careful.

I mean, if we start acting out of emotion

and out of trust in ourselves,

we can lay foundations

that can maybe go in directions like...

(Derek) Could we make things worse?

(Jonathan) Oh, yeah.

(Derek) We could make things worse.
Adison?

(Adison) Just to add onto that,

we just need to be praying

for a spirit of tactfulness,

for a winsome spirit,

and, yeah, the ability

to say yea or nay, right,

just the way we handle it...

Just have the discipline

when we approach someone.

(Derek) It appears, from reading the text,

that Ezra holds the leaders,

can I say, at a higher standard?

Maybe not, maybe we all

have the same standard.

But he expects more of them

because they are leaders.

Is that fair? We're all human beings, Tom.

Why have a higher expectation of leaders?

(Thomas) The leaders are the ones

who set the examples

for everybody else to follow.

The question I have is,

why did they listen to him?

(Derek) Why did they listen?

(Thomas) Yeah, like...

(Derek) Good question

because he was a leader, too, right?

What do you think,

in answer to Tom's question?

Why did they listen to him?

They hadn't been listening before.

Why did they listen to John the Baptist

when he told them what to do?

Why did they listen to Jesus?

What's the answer to that question? Heide?

(Heide) I think that they knew
it was true,

and the Holy Spirit convicted them

of that, that it was true.

(Derek) But they'd known that before.

They knew before, didn't they?

Why did they listen to him?

Chris, what do you think?

(Chris) I do think it was

the power of the Holy Spirit.

I think, in terms of the people,

even though they kind of knew before,

I think they were dealing with a situation

where there had been generations
of mistakes

because they had been living in Babylon.

And before that, the generations

that came before them had done wrong,

and that's why they had been living
in Babylon.

So now we're dealing with a set of people

that, even though they know
what the laws are,

they've never seem them applied.

And so you need the power

of the Holy Spirit in those moments

to deal with generational teachings.

And I think that's why it was effective,

because Ezra took the time
to fast and pray

and allow the Lord to speak through him,

so that way, the people,

through all that generational mess

that was in their minds,

could hear what Ezra

was actually trying to say.

(Derek) I mean, it was
clearly supernatural,

but I would respond,

they listened to Him because they saw

that God was with him.

John the Baptist, when he said,

"If you've got two coats,
sell one of them.

If they ask you to go a mile, go two,"

and right after that it says,

"Some even wondered if He was the Christ."

So he lived, right, a credible life

as you would as a woman of God/man of God

that gives you a certain credibility,

authority, which isn't just given
but earned.

They listened to him.

There's one verse in 1 Peter

that I think is helpful for us

about leadership and expecting more
of leaders.

By the way, we are all leaders, right?

We all have a circle of influence, right?

It could be our dorm room.

It could be our family.

It could be we're a supervisor at work.

Adison, would you read

from 1 Peter, chapter 5, verses 1 to 4?

Here, Peter, who used to operate

a fishing business with his brother
Andrew,

so he'd been a leader

in that circle of influence,

let's hear what he says

about expecting something

of those who are in a leadership position.

(Adison) And I'll be reading

from the King James Version:

(Derek) So, your Bible says

"ensamples to the flock."

Does anyone have another translation?

(Travis) Examples.

(Derek) Examples, okay.

It reminds me of what Paul says

where he says, "Follow me

as I follow Christ."

You see, people are going
going to follow the leader.

If you're a mother, a father,

a leader in your community,

people look up to you;

you're an older young lady,

and there are younger girls

that look up to you, right?

And he's saying that's part

of being a leader.

And he's saying, "Your example

is impacting other people." Travis?

(Travis) I think of the verse
we sang as a Scripture song

here at Hope Sabbath School,

"Therefore, I beseech you

to walk worthy of the calling
with which you were called."

We've all been called to walk
worthy of that calling.

(Derek) And the beautiful thing there,
that's not talking

about earning salvation.

You've been saved by God's grace;
live like it.

And that's only by a personal connection
with Jesus, right?

But here we are, this bad decision,

of course, is that they were allowing

their sons to marry unbelieving women

and allowing their daughters

to marry unbelieving men.

The Bible has some more to say.

Well, let's just look

at how Ezra addresses it

before we look at some other counsel.

In Ezra, chapter 10 still,

verses 10 through 12.

Nicole, could you read that for us?

(Nicole) Sure, Ezra 10,

verses 10 through 12,

the New Living Translation says:

(Derek) Is that an easy thing to ask?

(Team) No.

(Derek) "But, Ezra, I've been married

to this lady for...,"

(Nicole) Twenty years.

(Derek) Whatever the number is, right?

What do you think about his...

He spent time fasting and praying.

He's been grieving, right?

He'd been pulling out his own beard.

But now he gives a very straight command.
Jason?

(Jason) I like that even before he

gives the command, though,

he says, "Make confession

to the Lord God of your fathers."

So, before the action

and the separating there,

there's the confession.

There's the individual recognition

of the wrong that has been done.

And so I like that he puts that

before he gives the command.

It shows the process of how God

has been working in this decision.

(Derek) So, how would you respond, Tom,

to someone who might say,

"Well, obviously that was a bad mistake,

but just setting aside that pagan wife,

that's like adding another mistake

to a mistake you've already committed"?

I mean, who's going to care for this lady?

How would you respond to that?

(Thomas) The thing that comes to my mind

is that it's not automatic

that it's going to inevitably be
a separation.

I think what it could mean

is that they're setting a standard

of what they expect of their partners.

Like, just to give you an example,

I think so many people

who are going into relationships

need to have expectations
for their partner.

I remember when my wife,

or who was my girlfriend at the time

and wanted to date me,

she said, "I want to make sure

that you're spiritual first,"

and she said, "I want to see

that you're growing spiritually."

And she set that standard.

And I stepped up because I wanted

to be in that relationship.

And I think so many people

don't realize what they have,

and so they don't value it.

And I think what I'm hearing him say

is, "We really have something;

you need to value it and have expectations

and standards for yourself."

I don't think it necessarily follows

that they have to separate

unless they're not willing to step it up,

but it's possible that many

of them might have.

(Derek) That's a powerful insight.

You know, it may be that you say,

"We can't continue where we're

not in spiritual harmony,"

and that spouse may go and seek God

and be transformed, right?

And say, "You know, I need

to leave the gods."

Can you think of someone in the Bible

who did that, right

(we're going to get to those
in just a minute),

that it's not inevitable

that that would mean

a permanent separation?

But it's drawing clear boundaries

of what God wants to see, right?

So let's broaden it out a little bit,

and let's say, can you name

some other Bible characters besides...

Who was the one that Ezra used

as an example who made

some bad decisions?

(Team) Solomon.

(Derek) Solomon, right?

Actually he made 700 bad decisions

and 300 girlfriends, right?

Yes, that's a thousand.

Now, I suppose some of them

might have been believers

in the true God of Heaven,

so we're not sure,

but certainly he was an example Ezra used.

It was devastating, not only to him,

but to the kingdom.

Think of some other examples

in the Bible, now, where marrying

an unbelieving spouse, a spouse

who was not seeking the God of Heaven,

had really damaging effects. Heide?

(Heide) Samson is a prime example.

(Derek) "But I like her," I mean,

isn't that what he said?

"She looks hot," that's

a rough translation of the Hebrew.

"She looks good to me."

And the parents are like,

"There are lots of good-looking girls
who love God."

Great example. Damaging?

(Team) Yes.

(Derek) I wonder how much

he thought about that

after his eyes had been gouged out, right?

"Wow, I was living for my eyes

and ended up losing them," wow.

Another example besides Samson. Travis?

(Travis) I think of Ahab because...

(Derek) Ahab! You always wonder.

You know, you think of Ahab and think,

well, he was clearly wicked.

What if he had found a godly companion

who, like Thomas' girlfriend

at the time, Hannah,

said, "I need to know

that you're really seeking God"?

And Ahab could have said, "I need to,"

to quote Thomas, "step it up."

Instead, what was the name

of the lady he married?

(Team) Jezebel.

(Derek) You know, famous for her...

(Heide) Wickedness.

(Derek) Wickedness.

I mean, even unbelievers today, they don't

name any of their daughters Jezebel.

It's a name that will live
in infamy, right?

So there are examples.

(Chris) I was commenting on Jezebel.

The Bible says that even though Ahab...

As if Ahab didn't do

enough bad stuff already,

he went and married Jezebel.

That marriage that he did was so bad

that it was worse than any

of the other things that he
had already done.

And it's because of what it
would mean later,

but that's how bad that decision was,

that God held it more than any
of his other sins.

(Derek) So, that's the bad.

Let's go to the good.

Let's go...Who married up?

Who maybe married someone...

I really like what Tom said,

that, when he said, unbelieving spouse,

that doesn't necessarily mean

it was a permanent separation.

You could say, "Here's someone.

I just need to know that their heart

is desiring to follow

the one true God of Heaven."

Some stories of a good example,

can you think of one?

(Adison) Boaz and Ruth.

(Derek) That's right.

Ruth, he goes, "I'm going to marry

this young lady Ruth."

They're like, "Ruth?! She's from..."?

(Team) Moab.

(Derek) That's where they

have gods like Marduk.

I mean, that's where they

sacrifice their children in the fire!

"You're going to marry Ruth?!"

And the answer is...?

(Nicole) "Yes," she demonstrated

that she was a believer in Christ

because when she came back with Naomi,

he could see that she loved Naomi

enough, to be able to understand
that she could be someone

that was going to love God,
and she was going to make

this whole family a better place.

(Derek) Of course, Christ means
the Anointed One

who has not even come, but she's
believing the promise

of the Messiah who will come

who will be the Savior of God's people.

"And your people will be..."?

(Team) "...my people..."

(Derek) "...and your God..."?

(Team) "...my God."

(Derek) And did Boaz make

a mistake in marrying Ruth?

(Team) No/Not at all.

(Derek) You can ask him

when you see him in the Kingdom,

and he'll say, "Best decision
I ever made."

Can you think of another one,

where someone who maybe wasn't

originally part of the family,
was changed?

Anybody else you can think of? Nicole?

(Nicole) My favorite character is Esther.

(Derek) Esther?

(Nicole) She married the king of Persia.

At the time, he was not a God-seeker

or a God-believer,

but I think through her example

of how she looked in the palace
before they got married

and then marrying her and her sacrifice

and just seeing her character...

He may not have been a believer,

but I think he came around

to understand that there was

a power in her that was bigger
than what he was.

(Derek) Very interesting.

Of course, you know, there are

a lot of questions in the story.

But one can only imagine in the harem,

which is what she was part of,

where they were rotating young girls

through, was it every night?

I forget how often they went through.

But I'm sure some of them were thinking,

"What's the most outrageous thing

I could do that would set me apart?"

And Hadassah, who is called Esther,

is thinking, "How do I let

the light of God shine out?"

And you're right, this pagan king,

he sees the light of God,

and God uses a pagan king

to deliver His people, God's people.

So, we ought not to write...

We have an expression

in English, don't we,

to write people off?

We ought not to say,

"Just because you were

born in that family...,"

back to what Tom was saying earlier.

We ought to see what the direction

of the heart is, right?

Oh, boy, but let me hyperspace
over to that.

But someone's contemplating
marrying someone they...

"Oh, but he's so wonderful,"

or, "She's so wonderful.

She doesn't believe in Jesus,

but she's so good to me."

"He's so kind to me."

Stephanie, help us.

There are people watching who are going,

"Oh, he's been reading my emails."

There are several things we might respond,

and there's not going to be one
pat answer, right?

What would you say to her or to him?

(Stephanie) I think the burden

that I would share with them

is that, "Your value is not based

on words of other people,

but it's based on the blood
of Jesus Christ.

So, when you can find your value

and your self-worth in Jesus,

then He will bring you to the person

who also is focusing on Jesus."

(Derek) Okay, so that aspect

then would say, "No matter how sweet

or kind or how often they compliment you,

if their heart hasn't

been surrendered to Jesus...,"

what should they do?

There are several verbs we might use here.

(Team) Run.

(Derek) One might be run, certainly run

if it's an abusive relationship

where they're kind of, what would you say,

dominating you, right?

Run. What other verbs

might we use besides run?

(Heide) Kneel.

(Derek) Kneel, yes, kneel. Others?

(Stephanie) Pray while you're kneeling.

(Derek) Pray. What about wait?

Why could waiting be helpful, Adison?

(Adison) Well, that's sort of the boat

I'm in right now, actually.

(Derek) Okay, tell us the story. No.

(Adison) I think that's

such an important word.

And, you know, the Bible

talks about patience being a virtue.

(Derek) Yes.

(Adison) And good things coming
to those who wait.

And our bodies are the temple of God,

and if we value our bodies as God -

like, God has put...He went to every...

like, He went to the farthest extent

to save each of us -

I think we'd realize how much we are worth

and that we are priceless in God's eyes,

that we are incomparable, irreplaceable,

I think we're a lot more willing

to wait for the right person,

the right spouse for God

to bring into our lives.

He will give us discernment and wisdom

to be able to make those big decisions.

I had a pastor that told me

that the two most important decisions

you could make in your life

is, one, when you give

your heart to Jesus,

when you make that public declaration

of your faith in Jesus as your Savior.

And then the second one,

who you're going to marry.

(Derek) So, if I'm hearing

Adison's testimony clearly,

his wait is not, "I've got
this relationship;

I'm not sure it's of God,

so I'm going to just wait."

You haven't found it yet,

so you're waiting until God shows you.

(Adison) That's right.

(Derek) Could it also be,

"I think this is it; wait"?

(Adison) That could be, too.

(Derek) Because what will waiting do?

(Nicole) Show you what you need to see...

(Jonathan) Demonstrate character.

(Derek) Someone told me that you can

wear a mask for about a year
in a relationship.

This was a marriage counselor, by the way,

who told me, two years for courting.

You rush at your peril.

You say, "But I know someone who rushed,

and it worked out."

But I know a lot who rushed,

and it didn't, right?

So, waiting gives you time to see

the true character of the person,
right? Gary?

(Gary) I was going to say, my wife,

she wasn't originally a Christian.

She was a nominal Christian;

she knew who God was.

But we were friends,

and, long story short,

we started Bible studies,

and then she went and found a pastor.

So, she didn't depend on me.

She found out who Jesus was,

and she wanted to know more.

So she went and did

what she could do to find out

and started going to church.

And eventually, after we waited,
we got married.

But, I mean, I didn't meet her

and say, "Oh, I want to marry her."

She was just my friend

who I was giving studies to.

And she did the rest

of the soul-seeking,

the soul-searching herself

and found the love of Christ.

(Derek) We were going to say,
"What happened?"

but you just called her your wife.

But that didn't happen

in a few weeks, you said?

(Gary) No, no no, it was...

I knew her, like, 2010,

and we were married 2015,
so five years, yeah.

(Derek) Five years, and during that time,

you saw her grow.

I'm sure she was watching you, too, right?

(Gary) Yeah, yeah, she looked

at how I was with my family

and my church family

and my relationship with God,

and she wanted to do that where she was.

We were long distance,

so she was in Kansas, and I was here.

And it just took time, yeah.

(Derek) Amen?

(Team) Amen.

(Derek) Second Corinthians 6:14 says,

"Do not be unequally yoked
with unbelievers."

What is that talking about?

And then I'm going to ask someone to share

who grew up in a family where there was

an unequal yoking together,

what that was like, okay?

Do you think that's talking

about marriage, "Do not

be unequally yoked," Stephanie?

(Stephanie) Sure, but I think
it's broader.

(Derek) Broader, okay, could it

include marriage to an unbeliever?

(Team) Yes.

(Derek) Okay, what else could it include,

"Do not be unequally yoked," Tom?

(Thomas) It could involve doing business

or having a contractual relationship

with somebody who has different values.

(Derek) Where you go, "I can't,"

because two can't walk together

unless they're agreed, right?

So it could be a business,

don't be yoked with a person

who has different values. Jonathan?

(Jonathan) I know a number of families

that I've watched in different churches

I've been where usually the female,

but often somebody, one of the couples,

is just passionate about serving God

and so into it, but they're alone.

And they're not able to share that

with their other half.

(Derek) So, it may include

things that you're passionate about,

goals, not just whether or not

you believe in God--check--right? Tom?

(Thomas) In fact, I was going to say

that just because you have

the same denominational affiliation

doesn't mean you're compatible

or that you even have the same faith

because many people look for somebody

of the same ("Oh, check")...

they've got the same religious beliefs,

but that doesn't necessarily mean

that they are good for you, still.

(Derek) Right.

(Thomas) They could still be abusive;

they could still be,

not in love with Jesus, you know?

(Derek) Tom, you mentioned to me

before the broadcast

that you did grow up in a family,

would you say it was not equally yoked?

(Thomas) Yeah, I just want to say first,

I love my dad, and I have

a lot of respect for him,

so I don't want to talk bad about him.

But he wasn't a believer;
it's just a fact.

He didn't go to church.

And it was really hard

for my family, my mother,

because, you know, every time

we wanted to go to church,

he would stay home.

And I think we just missed out
on the intimacy

and that spiritual connection.

My mother was the spiritual leader

of her family because of that.

And I think that led

to some tension, unfortunately.

I think, personally from that experience

I realized how important it is

to have a relationship that has

a common faith or at least common values.

(Derek) So, may I ask

a personal question in response,

because you are a committed follower
of Jesus.

We know that because you

sought a godly companion, Hannah;

you shared in this program your testimony.

And you've grown, even, spiritually
as a couple,

so who helped you as a mentor

because your dad spiritually

was not that for you?

(Thomas) Well, my mother

was a good influence for me; I learned

a lot about relationships from her.

But she remarried;

my stepdad was a pastor,

and he was a really good role model to me,

and I really appreciated that.

So that was very helpful.

But I think the one Person

that's really made the biggest difference

in our relationship is God or Jesus.

I mean that's the biggest...

(Derek) A personal relationship.

(Thomas) Having that common connection

is really what keeps us together.

(Derek) Is there anyone else here

that was involved in a relationship

where God wasn't at the center? Malaina.

(Malaina) I was actually in a relationship

for like two-and-a-half years
with someone,

and when I started learning
more about God

(I wasn't a follower of Jesus),

they actually became very jealous of that

and spending time with God.

And then I had the opportunity

to go to the ARISE program in Australia

that my stepfather, Travis,

offered for me to go.

He said, "If you go,

we're not staying together."

Like, "You're not going to Australia;

you're not doing that."

And long story short,

I had to end that relationship,

which was really hard

because it was not like I
didn't care for him.

But the result of my ending
that relationship

ended in my going to Australia

and giving my heart to Jesus.

(Team) Amen.

(Malaina) So it was a good decision
in the long run.

(Derek) Not necessarily easy.

(Malaina) No, it was very hard,

and I wrestled with it

for three months, too,

which caused more damage in the long run.

(Derek) Travis, you were quoted

in the previous testimony,

but you've also experienced that

in your own journey.

(Travis) I have, and, you know,

I want to say something positive.

I know we're getting to the end
of the program.

I want to say something positive.

I had a business relationship with someone

who was not from the same denomination,

but we respected each others' beliefs.

We had a beautiful business relationship
for a long time.

And so, when we are equally yoked,

positive things can come from that.

Dan and Billie, my partner's wife
was Billie,

and his name was Dan, and they are two

of the most amazing Christian people
I know.

And it was a beautiful thing

to be in a business relationship with him.

(Derek) So, if we've made
some bad decisions,

we don't have to stay there.

We can set healthy boundaries,

and we can move forward.

If we haven't made bad decisions,

we don't have to make them.

You don't have to do that

in order to know they were bad.

God wants to guide us, my friend,
through His Word.

But what's so important is,

wherever you are, He loves you

with an immeasurable and unfailing love.

And He wants to surround you

with people who love Him and love you -

ve've heard those testimonies,
even today -

to guide your steps

and to help you in that new life.

We've all got times

when we've made bad decisions,

but He can give us a new beginning.

Let's pray for that even today.

Father in Heaven, thank You so much

that You're patient and kind.

You never give up; You can

always give new beginnings

to those who call upon You.

And I thank You that, as we seek You
and find You,

that You will direct our steps each day.

In the name of Jesus. Amen.

(Team) Amen.

(Derek) Thanks for joining us

for Hope Sabbath School.

I know you want to send me

all the bad decisions you've made,

but just praise Jesus

that He will guide you

in better decisions.

And one decision you can make today

is to go out and share the love of Jesus

with those around you.

♪ theme music ♪