♪ theme music ♪
(Derek) Welcome to Hope Sabbath School,
an in-depth, interactive study
of the Word of God.
We are coming toward the end
of a series on Ezra and Nehemiah,
that's the fifth century, B.C.,
a Jewish priest and a Jewish exile
who was a Persian court official.
God used them to do
some mighty work for Him,
and there are principles
that we will learn for our lives today.
Today, Dealing with Bad Decisions,
particularly related to marriage,
but I'm praying that this
would not be a negative study,
but it would give positive instruction
wherever you are on your journey with God.
So, welcome to Hope Sabbath School.
Good to be together again,
and I'm excited about this topic
because I feel like it's really relevant
for our lives today.
And wherever we are in our journey,
the Word of God is a lamp to our feet, right?
We're glad you're part
of our Hope Sabbath School family wherever you are,
always happy to hear from you.
Here's a note from Morgan in Mississippi
in the United States of America.
Morgan says, "I'm writing
because it's long overdue.
I discovered Hope Channel
for the first time on DirecTV 368
in January of 2018.
I must admit I'm learning
more about the Bible than ever before."
(Team) Amen.
(Derek) "I love the interactive and teaching approach
that you present to all listeners.
It's been a joy and a blessing
since I started watching
Hope Sabbath School.
I live in the U.S. in Mississippi.
I grew up attending
a local Baptist church, sometimes;
however, my family never
honored the Sabbath day
nor were we active, serious followers of Jesus.
As I became older, I began
to seek Jesus for myself."
(Team) Amen.
(Derek) "And I have not been disappointed.
So I'm still seeking Him everyday.
And when I became aware of Hope Channel,
it was a blessing to me,
especially Hope Sabbath School."
Well, Morgan, we're just glad you're part
of our Hope Sabbath School family, right?
And we're excited that God is leading you
into a fuller understanding of His truth
and His plan for your life.
Here's a note from Joe in Zambia,
"I greet you in the name
of the Lord Jesus."
That wasn't too encouraging.
Greet him in the name of the Lord Jesus!
"My name's Joseph from Lusaka.
I want to thank you
for Hope Sabbath School
and the work you're doing.
Keep up the good work.
It keeps me glued to the TV
to know more about the Kingdom of Heaven."
(Team) Amen.
(Derek) "The explanations are distinct
and clear for all to understand.
May God keep blessing you
abundantly with wisdom
and spread the Word everywhere. Amen."
(Team) Amen.
(Derek) I want to meet Joe;
He's an enthusiastic fellow.
Banks writes from Canada; Any Canadians here?
Yes, Adison, a Canadian.
He's on the other side in Gatineau, Canada.
(Adison) Quebec?
(Derek) Quebec, Banks St. Fleur,
"I'm speaking to you in Gatineau.
I have a great privilege
to find you and your group
in that marvelous work,
an interactive study of the Word of God.
What a beautiful thing to serve Jesus!"
(Team) Amen.
(Derek) "I am praying that Jesus
can help us to stay close to Him,
even with what's happening
around us in the world. Blessings. Amen."
(Team) Amen.
(Derek) I think that may have been
second language, French-speaking Quebec?
(Adison) Oui.
(Derek) We're glad, Banks,
that you could write to us and that you're
part of our Hope Sabbath School family.
Here's a note from a donor,
"I'm enjoying the lessons
on Hope Sabbath School,
learning and understanding more.
You bring things to light
and make it easier
to understand the Bible."
(Team) Amen.
(Derek) "Thank you for all the work
that you do to bring the program
to so many around the world.
I watch Hope Sabbath School
three times every week,"
and a gift of 35 dollars
to help the ministry.
You know, all of us working together
is what makes the miracle happen, isn't it?
Thanks so much to our donors
for your prayers and your support.
One last note, from Marita in New Zealand,
way on the other side of the world.
"I would like to thank you
for your discussions,
which sometimes make me laugh
and other times make me cry; that's life.
The team, with many different members
from all over the world,
working together for the whole family,
what a great blessing you are.
I would like to give
special thanks to Bodil.
She works behind the scenes,
always in the background, but very present
through her Scripture songs."
(Team) Amen.
(Derek) "To put music to the Bible is great.
I'm singing often during the day
the songs I learn on Hope Sabbath School."
(Team) Amen.
(Derek) "How easy to remember the Bible
when you put it to music - fantastic!
I look forward to singing
with all the saints
when we are in Heaven."
Well, Marita, we need you
to sing with us right now.
We have a 3,000-year-old Scripture song
my wife, Bodil, put a new tune to,
and it says, "To You, O Lord,
I lift up my soul.
O my God, I trust in You."
Let's sing it together.
♪ music ♪
(Derek) I was just thinking while we were singing,
maybe we'll be in a difficult situation somewhere,
and instead of going, "Oh! Oh!"
we'll just start singing,
"To You, O Lord...," and the people
will be like, "Oh!"
God may send an angel
on either side of us.
God is able to care for His children, isn't He?
And one of the things
that we're learning,
whatever we're facing in life,
is to call upon the name of the Lord.
Today, Dealing with Bad Decisions,
what better thing to do
than call on the name of the Lord.
So let's pray together right now.
To You, O Lord, we lift up our souls.
We want to thank You,
that You, through Your prophets
and most of all through Your Son, Jesus,
have taught us the way to live
and the way of salvation.
And most of all, You've revealed to us that You love us
with an immeasurable and unfailing love.
And I pray, as we look
at Dealing with Bad Decisions,
that You would give, not only counsel
to redirect our path in a healthy way,
but an awareness of how much
You love us on our journey; and I thank You.
In the name of Jesus. Amen.
(Team) Amen.
(Derek) Well, I'm sure
there were many bad decisions
that were being made
in the time of Ezra and Nehemiah,
just like there are today,
but both Ezra and Nehemiah
focus on one bad decision
that had broad consequences.
And we're going to start
with Nehemiah's account
in Nehemiah, chapter 13, verses 23 and 24.
And, Stephanie, would you begin our study,
verses 23 and 24 of Nehemiah 13.
(Stephanie) I'll be reading
from the King James Version:
(Derek) So, a problem here
is that there is what?
(Nicole) Intermarriage.
(Derek) Intermarriage with...?
(Team) Nonbelievers.
(Derek) Not just people of other nations,
but people who worship false gods;
that's the real challenge.
And, Adison, look down
in that same chapter for us, in verse 28.
I wouldn't say, "to make matters worse,"
but to compound the problem,
what does Nehemiah tell us
in verse 28 of chapter 13?
(Adison) I'm reading
from the King James Version:
(Derek) Now, you remember
this fellow Sanballat the Horonite.
Summarize his character in a short phrase.
What would you say?
(Travis) Troublemaker.
(Derek) Troublemaker and...?
(Jason) Enemy.
(Derek) Enemy of God!
Opposer of the things of God.
And apparently his relative
married a relative of the high priest.
So, it's all the way up
to the top leadership in the community,
this problem of intermarriage.
Let's see how Nehemiah responds, Gary,
if you'd take us, in the same chapter, verse 25.
And I know these are startling words,
but what does Nehemiah do?
(Gary) Okay, I'll be reading
from the New King James Version:
(Derek) Now, before we do an evaluation
of whether you think it was a good thing
to curse them, strike some of them,
pull out their hair,
what illustration does he give
of the detrimental effect
of marrying - taking spouses -
who worship pagan gods?
Well, let's look and see.
Travis, would you read,
same chapter for us,
Nehemiah 13, verses 26 and 27.
(Travis) I'll be reading
from the New King James Version:
(Derek) So did God love Solomon?
(Team) Yes.
(Derek) Did marrying pagan spouses impact his life?
(Team) Yes.
(Derek) Absolutely.
Devastating consequences, right?
Not just setting a poor example,
but building pagan temples
and even, doesn't Scripture say,
drawing his heart away.
And wasn't that a sin?
He says it was a sin, right, to do that.
Why? Because they...?
They knew better; they knew
what God had asked them to do.
But I've got to stop and ask,
how does what Nehemiah did,
how does that reflect
the teaching of Jesus?
In Matthew 5:43-45, that's where it says,
"Love your enemies, bless those who curse you,
do good to those who spitefully use you and persecute you."
And isn't there somewhere else
in the Sermon on the Mount
where it says, "Treat others..."?
(Adison) The Golden Rule.
(Derek) The Golden Rule, right, Matthew 7:12,
the way you would like to be treated.
So, what do you think, Jonathan?
I mean, it's fairly intense, wouldn't you say?
He struck some; he cursed them.
I'm sure that doesn't mean
he used foul language,
but he said, I guess, what,
"The curse of God be upon you,"
or hit them, he pulled some of the hair
out of their beards?
(Jonathan) I guess, reading it,
it does seem like maybe he's
not acting out of cautious principle,
maybe a little bit out of emotion.
But at the same time, I wonder, okay,
when you have a child or some place
where you need to set down strong discipline,
there certainly is a time
for maybe doing things
that one might say, "Well,
was that loving your neighbor?"
Well, if you look in the largest sense of what it was,
destroying these people's lives
and the whole community's lives,
maybe it's a different angle
on how you evaluate that.
(Derek) All right, you might say,
if you saw me heading
down a destructive path,
and you really cared about me,
you might do whatever it takes to wake me up -
Malaina, what do you think?
(Malaina) I think that sometimes
you need to come at it
with love and care,
but if that approach doesn't work,
and sometimes it doesn't
always work on people,
you kind of need to hold them accountable
and be like, "What you're doing is wrong,
and it's going to lead
to even worse consequences."
And I think that's what Nehemiah
was trying to get at.
And maybe it was a little intense,
but he was really hurt by that, so...
(Derek) We always need to be careful
that we don't judge people
because we don't know
all the details, right?
You know, he might have said,
"I told you last week,"
or, "I told you a month ago,
and you just took
three pagan wives," or whatever.
So, we don't know all the details,
but we would all agree
that he cares about what's happening
and the negative consequence. Stephanie?
(Stephanie) Right, and I guess I would say
we would want to use caution
not to use this as an excuse for abuse
in a relationship or anything of that nature, your child...
(Derek) Yeah, there is
such a thing, isn't there...
What do they call it
when a spiritual leader abuses...
(Thomas) It's an abuse of power.
(Derek) An abuse of power, that's right,
whether that's abusing people physically
or sexually or psychologically
or, I guess, in a religious way, right?
So you're saying, "Well, he hit people,
and he pulled their hair out,
and it's in the Bible,
so I can do that to people, too."
You would not see that as an example,
but what I hear Malaina saying is,
feeling intense about this
and doing what it will take to stop them,
we maybe need to contextualize that into our culture?
What do you think, Travis?
(Travis) First off, if I was a leader in a church or something,
I would never pull someone's hair out and beat them; I just wouldn't.
I would have to take a different approach.
(Derek) Even if you felt very intense?
(Travis) I just wouldn't.
But we don't know the culture, as you said.
But then I think about the verse
in the Bible where Jesus says,
"To those I love, I rebuke and chasten."
Nehemiah had a passionate love,
and he knew the consequences of this
would be the death of people.
So, pulling some hair out, you know,
doing something like that might be better
than them dying later on, too, so I don't know.
(Derek) Maybe he said,
"I love you, brother" (yank).
One thing's clear; go back
to Deuteronomy, chapter 7;
they knew what God had asked them to do.
Deuteronomy, chapter 7,
Heide, if you have that, and you'd read
the first three verses for us
of Deuteronomy, chapter 7.
It had been clearly told to them
that God didn't want them
to do these things.
(Heide) All right, I'll be reading
from the New King James Version, and it says:
(Derek) Very clear instruction
that God had given,
and they're disregarding that.
Now, before we go on
and see what's happening in Ezra
and what he shares,
let's broaden it out,
dealing with bad decisions.
Let's go beyond just taking
an unbelieving spouse,
and let's say they knew
what God taught, Nicole,
but they did something completely opposite.
That could happen in many areas of life.
Why do people do that?
Now, we're not talking
about the people that don't know.
We're talking about the people
that know what God's asking them to do,
and they do the exact opposite.
Why do they do that?
Or maybe I should say, why do we do that sometimes?
(Nicole) I think part of it is self-gratification.
We believe that we know best
what is good for us and what we like,
and so, therefore, we engage in activities
that God tells us not to engage in
because it gives us gratification of what we want right now
because we're in a very "microwave," we call it, society.
And so, rather than wait on God
to give us the great blessings He has in store for us,
we want to gratify ourselves today.
(Derek) So, "God, I know you've given this,
but actually I know better in this situation"?
And the angels go, "Oh, no!" right? Gary?
(Gary) Just to piggyback
off of what Nicole said,
it's a lack of faith
and a lack of trust in God's words.
I mean, we can't see beyond what we see,
and because of that,
and God can see the future,
He's saying, "Look, you can't see it yet,
but this is going to be really bad.
Just don't entertain it."
And we are just captivated by what we see.
(Derek) And what we've learned
from our whole discussion
is God's direction in our lives is motivated by...?
(Team) Love.
(Derek) He loves us, right?
He's like, "That is going
to be destructive." Jonathan?
(Jonathan) To his point,
it's hard when you see things
It's like, "Okay, this makes sense to me."
It's very hard to go
based on the small little thing
you can barely see of, "Okay,
God is faithful; He knows,"
and you have to go,
based on things you cannot see, which takes faith.
(Derek) There is a text in the Proverbs
that says, "There is a way that seems right."
I didn't really understand this
when I was little.
Now I understand, it actually looks right,
"But the end thereof is the way of death."
We don't see that, and so, sometimes
we may do something directly contrary. Travis?
(Travis) I think, too, it's good
to remember that we're not
in the Garden of Eden;
Satan isn't limited to a tree; he's all over.
He's got shiny pearls everywhere.
And so, as we're walking,
you'd said earlier, the Bible
is a lamp and a light.
"Lord, is this okay?" and we need
to be in constant communion, "Is this decision okay?"
As soon as we get away from that,
we start trusting in ourselves, as Nicole said.
And then we're challenged
with the decisions we made, or the consequences
of our own decisions without God.
(Derek) And certainly the Bible
has some great principles for us.
How does a community -
Church is a community of loving people -
how does that help us, Chris,
can I say, to protect us from things
we may not see immediately?
(Chris) There are so many
different types of people in a community.
There are people that are older than us,
people that are wiser than us, people that have
been through different experiences,
people that have made the mistakes that we might make.
And because of that, they can lead us
and guide us and show us, "Hey,
I've been down that road.
I understand how you feel,
but just realize that your feelings
are going to lead you to this place,
and you don't want to be here."
(Derek) So God may use people, too,
in order to guide us. Evelyn?
(Evelyn) These communities
allow individuals to find mentors.
Everyone needs a mentor in their life.
And so, churches, families,
they should all be accountable
for each other in this way.
Mentors are really the people
you should turn to and say, "Hey, I have
this in front of me; what should I do?"
(Derek) Probably finding a mentor
in a Bible study group
or worshiping community
rather than a bar or a club of some kind,
you know, because you're finding someone
who is at least seeking
the way of God, the Word of God.
We looked at Ezra;
excuse me, we looked at Nehemiah, right?
Now we're going to look at Ezra.
And, by the way, they're
not that far apart in years, right?
They're kind of contemporaries.
In fact, remember at the beginning
of our study we shared that in Judaism
Ezra and Nehemiah, they're together.
Ezra and Nehemiah, right,
and in the Septuagint
they put them together
because they're that same time period,
the second wave, if you will, of exiles coming.
Let's go to Ezra, chapter 9,
verses 1 and 2, and let's see
a problem reported to the priest Ezra.
Evelyn, if you have that, would you read
the first two verses of chapter 9 of Ezra?
(Evelyn) Yes, I'll be reading
from the New Living Translation:
(Derek) So, did you notice
there's not just one example
of this fellow's grandson
who married this son-in-law,
but it names specifically what...?
(Team Member) The leaders.
(Derek) Yeah, didn't it say
priests and Levites were part of those...?
Not all of them, obviously,
but some of them were also offending.
Now, let's see...and, Malaina,
maybe you could read on
in chapter 9, verses 3 and 4...
Let's see how Ezra responds -
you know what I'm going to say, don't you? -
how Ezra responds compared
to how Nehemiah responded
because it was serious
in both settings, wasn't it?
And maybe there's no right or wrong response
except to feel passionate
about following God, right?
Malaina, let's look at verses 3 and 4.
(Malaina) I'll be reading
from the New King James Version:
(Derek) Jonathan?
(Jonathan) It just does seem
that his approach does more
to appeal, maybe, to a motivation
of those, like, all those
that felt the same gathered around him.
Like, maybe it had more of an ability
to draw out their conviction in a better way?
(Derek) Jason, what do you think?
You saw a difference, obviously, right?
(Jason) Yes, there's this self-reflection.
So, instead of immediately going out and attacking,
he kind of looks at, "Okay, God,
what's gone on here?
What is the situation,
and how can I respond?"
Kind of, he has this communication
almost, you could say, with God
in spending this time.
(Derek) Uh-huh. Anybody else?
If not, let's go to chapter 10.
Stephanie, I know you're processing that.
You have to say probably there was
no textbook saying, "This is how to respond."
Different personalities, but both
very passionate, like, "This isn't right."
God said, "Don't do this,"
and all the way up to priests and Levites
are doing it, right?
Chapter 10, verses 5 and 6,
Nicole, do you have...?
We're in Ezra still,
chapter 10, verses 5 and 6.
Let's see how he continues to respond.
(Nicole) The New Living Translation
of Ezra 10, verses 5 and 6 says:
(Derek) When you hear
that "ate and drank nothing,"
what comes to mind?
(Team) Fasting.
(Derek) Fasting and...? And prayer, yeah.
I think, Jason, you kind of described it.
It's very much...He's trying
to deal with this with God.
He's fasting and praying over this situation.
(Jonathan) It makes me think
of Gandhi in some sense,
not a direct correlation,
but Gandhi went for a long time
without food and water
in a sense trying to appeal
to people's conscience.
And so, maybe in a somewhat similar...
(Derek) Sure, you're thinking
in the 20th century a leader that,
instead of using aggression, he uh...
(Jonathan) Appealed to their conscience.
(Derek) He appealed to them
by how much he was grieving
over the abuse that he saw.
Certainly other places in Scripture
where people ate and drank nothing
in connection with seeking God,
help me, some other stories, Gary?
(Gary) The Ninevites after Jonah came.
(Derek) That's right, after Jonah says,
"God's going to destroy this city,"
they repented with fasting. Yes?
(Team Member) Saul/Paul.
(Derek) Saul, for three days
after he encounters the risen Christ.
And a contemporary of Ezra and Nehemiah,
namely Queen Esther
who asked all of the people,
including her uncle Mordecai,
to eat and drink nothing for three days,
to fast and to pray.
So I don't think it's reading
too much into the text
to say that he wasn't just going on a health diet,
but this was really fasting
and praying and seeking God.
So here he is, dealing
with a difficult situation.
At this point, I guess he's
done something external, what's he done?
What did you read?
(Team Member) Pull on his beard?
(Derek) No...He's done
some things internally, introspectively...
(Nicole) He told the Israelites to swear...
(Derek) He did; he called
the leaders, didn't he?
We read that; the leaders
of the priests and Levites,
verse 5 of Ezra 10.
But very much, and I think
we see this with Nehemiah, too,
bathing this whole thing in prayer, right?
Why is that important?
We're talking about trying
to resolve a bad situation.
Why is prayer so important, Evelyn,
when you find yourself
in a situation like that?
(Evelyn) Because we know
that God is the One who stores wisdom,
and we need to be on our knees
and ask Him, "God, give me
that gift of wisdom.
Help me figure out
this terrible situation,
help me know how to handle this."
And God really is Someone
who uses the Holy Spirit to inspire us.
(Derek) Yes, Nicole. Thank you.
(Nicole) I would also say that people
make a decision and they stick to it,
and they want to know
that they're right in their decision.
It's hard to tell them, "You're wrong for what you've done."
We need to have prayer and the Holy Spirit helping us with our words
to be able to reach someone that's made a decision
that they believe is right and that they want to make.
(Derek) And sometimes,
like Malaina said earlier,
it takes courage to go to someone
and say, "Brother, let me tell you
where you'll end up
if you go down that road."
Like Chris was saying,
"I've been down that road,"
or, "My parents went down that road," or whatever.
Sometimes that takes courage, right? Travis?
(Travis) Desperate times
call for desperate measures.
This is a God-sized problem.
This isn't a leaky faucet
that I need a wrench to go fix.
This is something that he
cannot handle on his own.
So, when you have a God-sized problem,
you have to fall on your knees.
(Derek) Yeah, and seek wisdom
like Evelyn said. Jonathan?
(Jonathan) I think, as well,
that sometimes we, when we're in situations like that,
we can make things worse
if we're not careful.
I mean, if we start acting out of emotion
and out of trust in ourselves,
we can lay foundations
that can maybe go in directions like...
(Derek) Could we make things worse?
(Jonathan) Oh, yeah.
(Derek) We could make things worse. Adison?
(Adison) Just to add onto that,
we just need to be praying
for a spirit of tactfulness,
for a winsome spirit,
and, yeah, the ability
to say yea or nay, right,
just the way we handle it...
Just have the discipline
when we approach someone.
(Derek) It appears, from reading the text,
that Ezra holds the leaders,
can I say, at a higher standard?
Maybe not, maybe we all
have the same standard.
But he expects more of them
because they are leaders.
Is that fair? We're all human beings, Tom.
Why have a higher expectation of leaders?
(Thomas) The leaders are the ones
who set the examples
for everybody else to follow.
The question I have is,
why did they listen to him?
(Derek) Why did they listen?
(Thomas) Yeah, like...
(Derek) Good question
because he was a leader, too, right?
What do you think,
in answer to Tom's question?
Why did they listen to him?
They hadn't been listening before.
Why did they listen to John the Baptist
when he told them what to do?
Why did they listen to Jesus?
What's the answer to that question? Heide?
(Heide) I think that they knew it was true,
and the Holy Spirit convicted them
of that, that it was true.
(Derek) But they'd known that before.
They knew before, didn't they?
Why did they listen to him?
Chris, what do you think?
(Chris) I do think it was
the power of the Holy Spirit.
I think, in terms of the people,
even though they kind of knew before,
I think they were dealing with a situation
where there had been generations of mistakes
because they had been living in Babylon.
And before that, the generations
that came before them had done wrong,
and that's why they had been living in Babylon.
So now we're dealing with a set of people
that, even though they know what the laws are,
they've never seem them applied.
And so you need the power
of the Holy Spirit in those moments
to deal with generational teachings.
And I think that's why it was effective,
because Ezra took the time to fast and pray
and allow the Lord to speak through him,
so that way, the people,
through all that generational mess
that was in their minds,
could hear what Ezra
was actually trying to say.
(Derek) I mean, it was clearly supernatural,
but I would respond,
they listened to Him because they saw
that God was with him.
John the Baptist, when he said,
"If you've got two coats, sell one of them.
If they ask you to go a mile, go two,"
and right after that it says,
"Some even wondered if He was the Christ."
So he lived, right, a credible life
as you would as a woman of God/man of God
that gives you a certain credibility,
authority, which isn't just given but earned.
They listened to him.
There's one verse in 1 Peter
that I think is helpful for us
about leadership and expecting more of leaders.
By the way, we are all leaders, right?
We all have a circle of influence, right?
It could be our dorm room.
It could be our family.
It could be we're a supervisor at work.
Adison, would you read
from 1 Peter, chapter 5, verses 1 to 4?
Here, Peter, who used to operate
a fishing business with his brother Andrew,
so he'd been a leader
in that circle of influence,
let's hear what he says
about expecting something
of those who are in a leadership position.
(Adison) And I'll be reading
from the King James Version:
(Derek) So, your Bible says
"ensamples to the flock."
Does anyone have another translation?
(Travis) Examples.
(Derek) Examples, okay.
It reminds me of what Paul says
where he says, "Follow me
as I follow Christ."
You see, people are going going to follow the leader.
If you're a mother, a father,
a leader in your community,
people look up to you;
you're an older young lady,
and there are younger girls
that look up to you, right?
And he's saying that's part
of being a leader.
And he's saying, "Your example
is impacting other people." Travis?
(Travis) I think of the verse we sang as a Scripture song
here at Hope Sabbath School,
"Therefore, I beseech you
to walk worthy of the calling with which you were called."
We've all been called to walk worthy of that calling.
(Derek) And the beautiful thing there, that's not talking
about earning salvation.
You've been saved by God's grace; live like it.
And that's only by a personal connection with Jesus, right?
But here we are, this bad decision,
of course, is that they were allowing
their sons to marry unbelieving women
and allowing their daughters
to marry unbelieving men.
The Bible has some more to say.
Well, let's just look
at how Ezra addresses it
before we look at some other counsel.
In Ezra, chapter 10 still,
verses 10 through 12.
Nicole, could you read that for us?
(Nicole) Sure, Ezra 10,
verses 10 through 12,
the New Living Translation says:
(Derek) Is that an easy thing to ask?
(Team) No.
(Derek) "But, Ezra, I've been married
to this lady for...,"
(Nicole) Twenty years.
(Derek) Whatever the number is, right?
What do you think about his...
He spent time fasting and praying.
He's been grieving, right?
He'd been pulling out his own beard.
But now he gives a very straight command. Jason?
(Jason) I like that even before he
gives the command, though,
he says, "Make confession
to the Lord God of your fathers."
So, before the action
and the separating there,
there's the confession.
There's the individual recognition
of the wrong that has been done.
And so I like that he puts that
before he gives the command.
It shows the process of how God
has been working in this decision.
(Derek) So, how would you respond, Tom,
to someone who might say,
"Well, obviously that was a bad mistake,
but just setting aside that pagan wife,
that's like adding another mistake
to a mistake you've already committed"?
I mean, who's going to care for this lady?
How would you respond to that?
(Thomas) The thing that comes to my mind
is that it's not automatic
that it's going to inevitably be a separation.
I think what it could mean
is that they're setting a standard
of what they expect of their partners.
Like, just to give you an example,
I think so many people
who are going into relationships
need to have expectations for their partner.
I remember when my wife,
or who was my girlfriend at the time
and wanted to date me,
she said, "I want to make sure
that you're spiritual first,"
and she said, "I want to see
that you're growing spiritually."
And she set that standard.
And I stepped up because I wanted
to be in that relationship.
And I think so many people
don't realize what they have,
and so they don't value it.
And I think what I'm hearing him say
is, "We really have something;
you need to value it and have expectations
and standards for yourself."
I don't think it necessarily follows
that they have to separate
unless they're not willing to step it up,
but it's possible that many
of them might have.
(Derek) That's a powerful insight.
You know, it may be that you say,
"We can't continue where we're
not in spiritual harmony,"
and that spouse may go and seek God
and be transformed, right?
And say, "You know, I need
to leave the gods."
Can you think of someone in the Bible
who did that, right
(we're going to get to those in just a minute),
that it's not inevitable
that that would mean
a permanent separation?
But it's drawing clear boundaries
of what God wants to see, right?
So let's broaden it out a little bit,
and let's say, can you name
some other Bible characters besides...
Who was the one that Ezra used
as an example who made
some bad decisions?
(Team) Solomon.
(Derek) Solomon, right?
Actually he made 700 bad decisions
and 300 girlfriends, right?
Yes, that's a thousand.
Now, I suppose some of them
might have been believers
in the true God of Heaven,
so we're not sure,
but certainly he was an example Ezra used.
It was devastating, not only to him,
but to the kingdom.
Think of some other examples
in the Bible, now, where marrying
an unbelieving spouse, a spouse
who was not seeking the God of Heaven,
had really damaging effects. Heide?
(Heide) Samson is a prime example.
(Derek) "But I like her," I mean,
isn't that what he said?
"She looks hot," that's
a rough translation of the Hebrew.
"She looks good to me."
And the parents are like,
"There are lots of good-looking girls who love God."
Great example. Damaging?
(Team) Yes.
(Derek) I wonder how much
he thought about that
after his eyes had been gouged out, right?
"Wow, I was living for my eyes
and ended up losing them," wow.
Another example besides Samson. Travis?
(Travis) I think of Ahab because...
(Derek) Ahab! You always wonder.
You know, you think of Ahab and think,
well, he was clearly wicked.
What if he had found a godly companion
who, like Thomas' girlfriend
at the time, Hannah,
said, "I need to know
that you're really seeking God"?
And Ahab could have said, "I need to,"
to quote Thomas, "step it up."
Instead, what was the name
of the lady he married?
(Team) Jezebel.
(Derek) You know, famous for her...
(Heide) Wickedness.
(Derek) Wickedness.
I mean, even unbelievers today, they don't
name any of their daughters Jezebel.
It's a name that will live in infamy, right?
So there are examples.
(Chris) I was commenting on Jezebel.
The Bible says that even though Ahab...
As if Ahab didn't do
enough bad stuff already,
he went and married Jezebel.
That marriage that he did was so bad
that it was worse than any
of the other things that he had already done.
And it's because of what it would mean later,
but that's how bad that decision was,
that God held it more than any of his other sins.
(Derek) So, that's the bad.
Let's go to the good.
Let's go...Who married up?
Who maybe married someone...
I really like what Tom said,
that, when he said, unbelieving spouse,
that doesn't necessarily mean
it was a permanent separation.
You could say, "Here's someone.
I just need to know that their heart
is desiring to follow
the one true God of Heaven."
Some stories of a good example,
can you think of one?
(Adison) Boaz and Ruth.
(Derek) That's right.
Ruth, he goes, "I'm going to marry
this young lady Ruth."
They're like, "Ruth?! She's from..."?
(Team) Moab.
(Derek) That's where they
have gods like Marduk.
I mean, that's where they
sacrifice their children in the fire!
"You're going to marry Ruth?!"
And the answer is...?
(Nicole) "Yes," she demonstrated
that she was a believer in Christ
because when she came back with Naomi,
he could see that she loved Naomi
enough, to be able to understand that she could be someone
that was going to love God, and she was going to make
this whole family a better place.
(Derek) Of course, Christ means the Anointed One
who has not even come, but she's believing the promise
of the Messiah who will come
who will be the Savior of God's people.
"And your people will be..."?
(Team) "...my people..."
(Derek) "...and your God..."?
(Team) "...my God."
(Derek) And did Boaz make
a mistake in marrying Ruth?
(Team) No/Not at all.
(Derek) You can ask him
when you see him in the Kingdom,
and he'll say, "Best decision I ever made."
Can you think of another one,
where someone who maybe wasn't
originally part of the family, was changed?
Anybody else you can think of? Nicole?
(Nicole) My favorite character is Esther.
(Derek) Esther?
(Nicole) She married the king of Persia.
At the time, he was not a God-seeker
or a God-believer,
but I think through her example
of how she looked in the palace before they got married
and then marrying her and her sacrifice
and just seeing her character...
He may not have been a believer,
but I think he came around
to understand that there was
a power in her that was bigger than what he was.
(Derek) Very interesting.
Of course, you know, there are
a lot of questions in the story.
But one can only imagine in the harem,
which is what she was part of,
where they were rotating young girls
through, was it every night?
I forget how often they went through.
But I'm sure some of them were thinking,
"What's the most outrageous thing
I could do that would set me apart?"
And Hadassah, who is called Esther,
is thinking, "How do I let
the light of God shine out?"
And you're right, this pagan king,
he sees the light of God,
and God uses a pagan king
to deliver His people, God's people.
So, we ought not to write...
We have an expression
in English, don't we,
to write people off?
We ought not to say,
"Just because you were
born in that family...,"
back to what Tom was saying earlier.
We ought to see what the direction
of the heart is, right?
Oh, boy, but let me hyperspace over to that.
But someone's contemplating marrying someone they...
"Oh, but he's so wonderful,"
or, "She's so wonderful.
She doesn't believe in Jesus,
but she's so good to me."
"He's so kind to me."
Stephanie, help us.
There are people watching who are going,
"Oh, he's been reading my emails."
There are several things we might respond,
and there's not going to be one pat answer, right?
What would you say to her or to him?
(Stephanie) I think the burden
that I would share with them
is that, "Your value is not based
on words of other people,
but it's based on the blood of Jesus Christ.
So, when you can find your value
and your self-worth in Jesus,
then He will bring you to the person
who also is focusing on Jesus."
(Derek) Okay, so that aspect
then would say, "No matter how sweet
or kind or how often they compliment you,
if their heart hasn't
been surrendered to Jesus...,"
what should they do?
There are several verbs we might use here.
(Team) Run.
(Derek) One might be run, certainly run
if it's an abusive relationship
where they're kind of, what would you say,
dominating you, right?
Run. What other verbs
might we use besides run?
(Heide) Kneel.
(Derek) Kneel, yes, kneel. Others?
(Stephanie) Pray while you're kneeling.
(Derek) Pray. What about wait?
Why could waiting be helpful, Adison?
(Adison) Well, that's sort of the boat
I'm in right now, actually.
(Derek) Okay, tell us the story. No.
(Adison) I think that's
such an important word.
And, you know, the Bible
talks about patience being a virtue.
(Derek) Yes.
(Adison) And good things coming to those who wait.
And our bodies are the temple of God,
and if we value our bodies as God -
like, God has put...He went to every...
like, He went to the farthest extent
to save each of us -
I think we'd realize how much we are worth
and that we are priceless in God's eyes,
that we are incomparable, irreplaceable,
I think we're a lot more willing
to wait for the right person,
the right spouse for God
to bring into our lives.
He will give us discernment and wisdom
to be able to make those big decisions.
I had a pastor that told me
that the two most important decisions
you could make in your life
is, one, when you give
your heart to Jesus,
when you make that public declaration
of your faith in Jesus as your Savior.
And then the second one,
who you're going to marry.
(Derek) So, if I'm hearing
Adison's testimony clearly,
his wait is not, "I've got this relationship;
I'm not sure it's of God,
so I'm going to just wait."
You haven't found it yet,
so you're waiting until God shows you.
(Adison) That's right.
(Derek) Could it also be,
"I think this is it; wait"?
(Adison) That could be, too.
(Derek) Because what will waiting do?
(Nicole) Show you what you need to see...
(Jonathan) Demonstrate character.
(Derek) Someone told me that you can
wear a mask for about a year in a relationship.
This was a marriage counselor, by the way,
who told me, two years for courting.
You rush at your peril.
You say, "But I know someone who rushed,
and it worked out."
But I know a lot who rushed,
and it didn't, right?
So, waiting gives you time to see
the true character of the person, right? Gary?
(Gary) I was going to say, my wife,
she wasn't originally a Christian.
She was a nominal Christian;
she knew who God was.
But we were friends,
and, long story short,
we started Bible studies,
and then she went and found a pastor.
So, she didn't depend on me.
She found out who Jesus was,
and she wanted to know more.
So she went and did
what she could do to find out
and started going to church.
And eventually, after we waited, we got married.
But, I mean, I didn't meet her
and say, "Oh, I want to marry her."
She was just my friend
who I was giving studies to.
And she did the rest
of the soul-seeking,
the soul-searching herself
and found the love of Christ.
(Derek) We were going to say, "What happened?"
but you just called her your wife.
But that didn't happen
in a few weeks, you said?
(Gary) No, no no, it was...
I knew her, like, 2010,
and we were married 2015, so five years, yeah.
(Derek) Five years, and during that time,
you saw her grow.
I'm sure she was watching you, too, right?
(Gary) Yeah, yeah, she looked
at how I was with my family
and my church family
and my relationship with God,
and she wanted to do that where she was.
We were long distance,
so she was in Kansas, and I was here.
And it just took time, yeah.
(Derek) Amen?
(Team) Amen.
(Derek) Second Corinthians 6:14 says,
"Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers."
What is that talking about?
And then I'm going to ask someone to share
who grew up in a family where there was
an unequal yoking together,
what that was like, okay?
Do you think that's talking
about marriage, "Do not
be unequally yoked," Stephanie?
(Stephanie) Sure, but I think it's broader.
(Derek) Broader, okay, could it
include marriage to an unbeliever?
(Team) Yes.
(Derek) Okay, what else could it include,
"Do not be unequally yoked," Tom?
(Thomas) It could involve doing business
or having a contractual relationship
with somebody who has different values.
(Derek) Where you go, "I can't,"
because two can't walk together
unless they're agreed, right?
So it could be a business,
don't be yoked with a person
who has different values. Jonathan?
(Jonathan) I know a number of families
that I've watched in different churches
I've been where usually the female,
but often somebody, one of the couples,
is just passionate about serving God
and so into it, but they're alone.
And they're not able to share that
with their other half.
(Derek) So, it may include
things that you're passionate about,
goals, not just whether or not
you believe in God--check--right? Tom?
(Thomas) In fact, I was going to say
that just because you have
the same denominational affiliation
doesn't mean you're compatible
or that you even have the same faith
because many people look for somebody
of the same ("Oh, check")...
they've got the same religious beliefs,
but that doesn't necessarily mean
that they are good for you, still.
(Derek) Right.
(Thomas) They could still be abusive;
they could still be,
not in love with Jesus, you know?
(Derek) Tom, you mentioned to me
before the broadcast
that you did grow up in a family,
would you say it was not equally yoked?
(Thomas) Yeah, I just want to say first,
I love my dad, and I have
a lot of respect for him,
so I don't want to talk bad about him.
But he wasn't a believer; it's just a fact.
He didn't go to church.
And it was really hard
for my family, my mother,
because, you know, every time
we wanted to go to church,
he would stay home.
And I think we just missed out on the intimacy
and that spiritual connection.
My mother was the spiritual leader
of her family because of that.
And I think that led
to some tension, unfortunately.
I think, personally from that experience
I realized how important it is
to have a relationship that has
a common faith or at least common values.
(Derek) So, may I ask
a personal question in response,
because you are a committed follower of Jesus.
We know that because you
sought a godly companion, Hannah;
you shared in this program your testimony.
And you've grown, even, spiritually as a couple,
so who helped you as a mentor
because your dad spiritually
was not that for you?
(Thomas) Well, my mother
was a good influence for me; I learned
a lot about relationships from her.
But she remarried;
my stepdad was a pastor,
and he was a really good role model to me,
and I really appreciated that.
So that was very helpful.
But I think the one Person
that's really made the biggest difference
in our relationship is God or Jesus.
I mean that's the biggest...
(Derek) A personal relationship.
(Thomas) Having that common connection
is really what keeps us together.
(Derek) Is there anyone else here
that was involved in a relationship
where God wasn't at the center? Malaina.
(Malaina) I was actually in a relationship
for like two-and-a-half years with someone,
and when I started learning more about God
(I wasn't a follower of Jesus),
they actually became very jealous of that
and spending time with God.
And then I had the opportunity
to go to the ARISE program in Australia
that my stepfather, Travis,
offered for me to go.
He said, "If you go,
we're not staying together."
Like, "You're not going to Australia;
you're not doing that."
And long story short,
I had to end that relationship,
which was really hard
because it was not like I didn't care for him.
But the result of my ending that relationship
ended in my going to Australia
and giving my heart to Jesus.
(Team) Amen.
(Malaina) So it was a good decision in the long run.
(Derek) Not necessarily easy.
(Malaina) No, it was very hard,
and I wrestled with it
for three months, too,
which caused more damage in the long run.
(Derek) Travis, you were quoted
in the previous testimony,
but you've also experienced that
in your own journey.
(Travis) I have, and, you know,
I want to say something positive.
I know we're getting to the end of the program.
I want to say something positive.
I had a business relationship with someone
who was not from the same denomination,
but we respected each others' beliefs.
We had a beautiful business relationship for a long time.
And so, when we are equally yoked,
positive things can come from that.
Dan and Billie, my partner's wife was Billie,
and his name was Dan, and they are two
of the most amazing Christian people I know.
And it was a beautiful thing
to be in a business relationship with him.
(Derek) So, if we've made some bad decisions,
we don't have to stay there.
We can set healthy boundaries,
and we can move forward.
If we haven't made bad decisions,
we don't have to make them.
You don't have to do that
in order to know they were bad.
God wants to guide us, my friend, through His Word.
But what's so important is,
wherever you are, He loves you
with an immeasurable and unfailing love.
And He wants to surround you
with people who love Him and love you -
ve've heard those testimonies, even today -
to guide your steps
and to help you in that new life.
We've all got times
when we've made bad decisions,
but He can give us a new beginning.
Let's pray for that even today.
Father in Heaven, thank You so much
that You're patient and kind.
You never give up; You can
always give new beginnings
to those who call upon You.
And I thank You that, as we seek You and find You,
that You will direct our steps each day.
In the name of Jesus. Amen.
(Team) Amen.
(Derek) Thanks for joining us
for Hope Sabbath School.
I know you want to send me
all the bad decisions you've made,
but just praise Jesus
that He will guide you
in better decisions.
And one decision you can make today
is to go out and share the love of Jesus
with those around you.
♪ theme music ♪