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    Hello everyone and welcome to
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    a different kind of video. Today I'm
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    joined by Dr. Shayla Vradenburgh,
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    who is the founder, what would
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    you call it? Founder of Revolting
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    Science Resources. And I'm gonna
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    let her explain what that is. But today,
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    because I was trained in the UK and
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    Shayla was trained in the US, we are
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    going to talk about the differences
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    between the UK versus US PhD. So
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    Shayla, do you wanna introduce
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    yourself? So, yeah. My name is Dr.
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    Shayla Vradenburgh. I am the founder
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    of Revolting Science Resources,
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    which is a company that's designed
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    to bring the principles of project
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    management to academic scientists
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    and researchers. I realized while
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    I was finishing up my PhD and
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    afterwards when I kind of learned
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    a little more about project management,
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    how vital it is to the work that we
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    do as researchers. And so I created
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    a company that's all about kind of
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    ways that you can implement
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    some of those principles in the
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    work that you do.
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    And Shayla also gives presentations
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    at conferences and at institutions.
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    So, you know, please consider bringing
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    her in. She is great. I did see her
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    present at the National Postdoctoral
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    Association. So yeah, that's a bit
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    about Shayla. You all know me
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    because you are on my YouTube
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    channel. I'm Kate, I'm the founder
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    of EduKatedSTEM, and normally I
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    talk about education and professional
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    development. So this slots in beautifully
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    because at the beginning of your
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    career you might be considering
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    whether you should do a PhD. And
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    also maybe where you should do
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    one because whether you are
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    international, whether you're from
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    the UK, or the US, students come
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    from each country all the time. And
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    there are videos on YouTube already,
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    from various people explaining why
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    they chose various countries or not.
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    So I encourage you to look at those,
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    but Shayla and I will be talking about
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    our personal experiences and also
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    the information that is relevant today,
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    which is in May, 2025 because we
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    did do a little bit of researching
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    around this area. So how about we
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    talk about the application process.
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    Do you wanna go first, Shayla?
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    Yeah. So I will say it's been a few
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    years since I've applied. I applied
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    back in 2017, so it's again, been a
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    few years, but for that application
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    process, most of the time it looks
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    pretty similar for a lot of different
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    universities. And also what I'll say
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    is I got my PhD in neuroscience
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    and in a lot of institutions in the
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    US that can be in kind of different
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    places. For me, most of the places
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    I applied, it was part of the school
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    of medicine, but sometimes you
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    can have it be parts of different
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    biology departments or the college
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    of arts and sciences. And so, sometimes
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    things can vary based off of what
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    department or school that you're
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    applying to. For kind of mostly like
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    these biomedical science school
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    of medicine things, there's also
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    sometimes umbrella programs.
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    So some of the institutions I
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    applied to, you actually apply to
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    an umbrella program and then
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    you kind of select your specialization
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    afterwards. Some of them will let
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    you apply directly to a specialization.
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    So, some of those kind of nuances
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    are a little different. But a lot of the
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    time it requires some sort of cover
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    letter or at least like personal statement,
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    some sort of, you know, like basically
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    talking a little about the things
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    you've accomplished in a CV. Having
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    letters of recommendation and a
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    lot of it is really predicated on how
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    much research experience you have.
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    They really wanna see some tangible
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    ways that you've actually gained
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    some experience that's relevant to
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    the work that you're hoping to do.
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    And then there normally is an
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    application fee. I know when I was
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    applying, I actually went to a national
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    conference called SACNAS, and
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    while I was there, I actually was
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    able to get a lot of waivers for
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    different institutions that I didn't
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    actually have to pay that application
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    fee. But that can be another thing
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    that kind of adds up if you're applying
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    to a lot of different institutions.
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    And yeah, I think those were like
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    most of the components for kind
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    of applying. I think it honestly was
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    a little similar when you're thinking
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    about like applying for undergrad
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    versus applying for grad school.
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    I also know too, like sometimes
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    the GRE, or like the GMAT, was
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    a test you would take. I took
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    the GRE, it was required when
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    I applied, but I think about two
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    years into my grad program,
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    they actually got rid of that
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    requirement at my institution
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    and at a good number of
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    institutions. So something
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    though to keep in mind to
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    definitely think about is whether
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    or not that test might be
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    something you need to include.
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    I will say that having sat on
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    an admissions committee,
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    how you do on the GRE or
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    the GMAT does not indicate
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    how well you do in graduate
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    school which is one of the
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    reasons why we discussed
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    dropping it. Because you
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    couldn't tell it really didn't
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    indicate your success or not.
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    Okay, so the British system is
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    different. You apply to a specific
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    research project with a particular
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    professor. So completely different.
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    You have to find the listings,
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    you find the research that you're
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    interested in, and then you
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    apply specifically to work for
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    that individual. So, you know,
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    we don't normally have rotations
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    like you do in America because
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    you're specifically going for that
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    particular project and professor.
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    Which is good and bad, because
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    what happens if you don't like
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    the professor? You're kind of
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    stuck. That's it. But that also
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    means that you know what
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    your project is as soon as you
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    come in, there's no surprise.
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    You literally applied for it.
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    And at least when I applied,
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    which was a very long time ago,
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    over 20 years ago, there was
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    no application fee. You just
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    sent your materials off. So
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    CV and a cover letter, maybe
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    a personal statement. And
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    definitely your transcripts
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    and letters of recommendation,
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    you just sent those off. I can't
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    remember how many I actually
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    applied for because there was
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    no financial component. So I
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    could have applied for every
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    single one I looked at. And then
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    I definitely had a number of
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    interviews which were all quite
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    different. So Shayla, do you wanna
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    talk about your experience for interviews?
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    Yeah. So I had a couple of interviews
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    that I had scheduled. They look
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    pretty much the same though,
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    where essentially you kind of start
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    by meeting maybe some people
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    for an informal sort of like dinner.
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    You meet some of the grad students
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    or even the faculty that are part
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    of the program. Then the next day
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    it was normally kind of like a full day.
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    You would do interviews with
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    different faculty members.
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    A lot of the time they'd give
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    you the option of people
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    you could select or you can
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    request specific faculty members
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    to meet with. And then they
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    kind of have different grad
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    students or people kind of walk
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    you between all these different
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    faculty interviews. And then
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    there normally was some sort
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    of a panel interview as well, so
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    you would meet with, most of
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    the time, it was mostly faculty
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    with a couple of graduate student
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    representatives. And then essentially
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    you do a panel interview as well
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    and kind of just answer lots of questions
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    about your research, talk about
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    their research. And I think what's
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    also so valuable about this interview
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    process is that it's not only an
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    opportunity for, you know, these
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    institutions to get to know you
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    and why you might be a good
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    fit, but you can also take that
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    opportunity to get to know them
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    and see how kind of the grad
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    students seem to be in this kind
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    of environment or how they seem
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    to support them, and how you
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    might fit in in that space as well.
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    That's a great point. You are
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    interviewing them at the same
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    time because it's a huge commitment
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    and if you choose the wrong
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    school or the wrong program,
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    then you might not enjoy the
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    experience. You might decide
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    to leave the program, which
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    would be terribly sad. So for my
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    interviews, I had to give a scientific
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    presentation at some of them
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    which was incredibly intimidating.
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    I did that for Oxford. And then
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    there's multiple interviews with
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    different professors. Even if you're
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    not wanting to work for them,
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    you still get interviewed by
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    multiple people. And I definitely
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    had a panel interview for the
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    PhD program I ended up going to.
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    I had a panel and it was actually
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    really interesting because there
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    were four professors for four
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    different proposals. And the
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    professor that I interviewed
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    for I actually am very glad
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    he didn't choose me and I
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    didn't get the project. But
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    someone else didn't like
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    any of his candidates, but
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    he liked me. But because
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    we'd all interviewed together,
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    he offered me a position,
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    so yay for the panel!
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    Yes. And also, I guess I'm curious,
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    for the presentation you had
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    to give, was that like a slideshow?
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    I know sometimes you do like
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    kind of chalkboard.
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    No. Full PowerPoint presentation.
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    Like an hour long?
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    God no, it wasn't an hour, maybe
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    10, 15 minutes. Okay. And luckily
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    it was because I had previously
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    done research in America, so
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    I presented on that research. But
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    yes, everyone who was being
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    considered for that particular
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    program, we all have to give
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    PowerPoint presentations.
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    So I assume all of us had
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    previous research experience,
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    otherwise, what would you have presented on?
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    Yeah, I was wondering that too.
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    I was like, hopefully you have.
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    Yeah. Similar to to what you said
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    about people in like if you've done
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    previous research experience,
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    so in America, having those summer
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    internships are really important if
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    you want to move ahead into a PhD program.
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    Yeah, for sure. I did a summer research
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    program at the University of New Mexico,
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    and I think that was one of the most
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    kind of transformative things I could
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    have done I think for my career. I
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    think a) it was just a really hands-on
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    time. I got to spend literally a whole
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    summer just focusing on research,
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    working in a different place, working
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    with different lab members.
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    Figuring out different techniques.
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    And then I got to present that work
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    ultimately too at places like SACNAS
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    which also kind of helped just broaden
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    my range of contacts and different
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    people within kind of different areas
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    of the world. So, yeah, I would highly
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    recommend for anybody who,
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    especially as an undergrad and is
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    thinking about research, like take a
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    summer, there's so many of these
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    different programs and a lot of times
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    they pay you stipends to participate.
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    So yeah, I think it's an incredible experience. Yeah.
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    Yeah. So I did a sandwich undergraduate,
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    which meant that for my third year,
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    my junior year, I had to leave and go
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    and have a proper research job so I
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    could have gone and worked in a
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    pharmaceutical company. But I was
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    selected to come to the University
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    of Virginia to do a year of cancer research,
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    which is how I started off my cancer
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    research kind of career because I
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    realized, oh, I can do that.
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    Yeah, that's,
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    and then because that was on
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    my CV, and at the time it was
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    more unusual in the UK. Because
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    sandwich degrees I don't know
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    how popular they are now, but
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    back then they weren't terribly
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    popular. I mean, I got interviewed
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    at the majority of the places that I applied for.
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    Yeah, I mean, that sounds like an incredible opportunity.
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    It was good. Thank you UVA.
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    Okay. So I think one of the key
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    things about the differences is the
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    duration, because a British PhD
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    is much shorter. Right. So most
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    people finish between three to
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    four years. I actually submitted
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    my PhD thesis or dissertation in
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    under three years, which is unusual,
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    but we get them through quicker.
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    And we can talk about the reason
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    for that in a moment, but Shayla,
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    what's the, how long does an American one last?
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    Yeah, it can typically range
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    somewhere between five to seven
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    years. I've seen people extend
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    beyond that. I think most of the time
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    when you would ask an institution
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    what their average is, they'll
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    probably say like five and a half to six.
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    But yeah, that could definitely be
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    a range. And I think especially after
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    COVID, I think those numbers increased
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    a little bit. But yeah, it's definitely a bit longer.
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    Yeah. I've known a couple of
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    students who've taken nine, so
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    as have I,
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    If your professor is willing to keep
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    paying you, you just kind of hang
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    around which is also not necessarily
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    a good thing because you wanna
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    get out and do a postdoc and move
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    on to the next step of your career.
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    Yeah. I think that's something too
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    people don't talk a lot about is,
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    you know, you generally don't make
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    a lot with these PhD stipends.
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    Really its oodles of money Shayla!
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    I mean, you're right. What am I talking about?
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    But, you know, I think for, if you
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    think about how long this is, like
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    five to seven years, that's a long
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    time to be making not the most
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    amount of money. And then especially
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    if the next step is a postdoc, which
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    they are generally underpaid as well.
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    You know, you're going to, it's gonna
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    take a lot longer before you're actually
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    making a salary that kind of helps
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    support your life and especially
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    the kind of experience that you have.
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    Let's talk money. So back 20 years
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    ago, I got paid 12,000 pounds per
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    year to do my PhD which at the
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    time was a very well funded PhD
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    and unusually. Tell me how you
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    got paid Shayla. I got paid every three months.
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    Interesting.
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    So I had to budget really well for
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    those three months.
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    Yeah. That's interesting. Yeah.
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    And for me, so my PhD was not
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    terribly long ago. We actually saw,
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    I think, two increases during the
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    time I was doing my PhD, but I
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    started at 30,500 and that honestly
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    isn't like, I think that is a generally
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    well-funded PhD. I think Charlottesville
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    is a little bit of a pricier area, but
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    honestly I didn't have a problem
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    living with that stipend. We saw a
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    couple of increases, so I think by
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    the time I finished, I think it ended
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    up around 33,500, somewhere
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    around there. I think you asked me
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    another question though, and I forgot it.
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    No, I just realized, did I just say I
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    did my research at UVA? I did it at VCU.
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    Oh, yeah. Oh, so you did it at VCU?
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    Wait, I just said the wrong university.
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    I was like, I didn't know that you went to UVA.
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    No, no. I've been to, I've visited UVA.
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    No, I was in Richmond.
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    Okay, that's close. It's really,
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    I was like, it had Virginia in the title,
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    but that is so wrong. Amnesia.
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    I was like, I feel like Why, why did
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    we not talk about this before?
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    No, no. I went, it was a VCU. I was
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    at the Massey Cancer Center
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    the Virginia Commonwealth University.
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    I'm going crazy at the grand old
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    age of 45. When you said you, I
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    was like, wait, I didn't go to Charlottesville.
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    I am going nuts. I'm sorry, Shayla.
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    Oh, that's fine.
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    Okay, so, so that's how much you
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    got paid. So how much were you
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    making at the end? Because you
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    started at 30.
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    Yeah, I think it ended up around,
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    I feel like it was 33, but there's a
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    chance it was 35. One of those two numbers.
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    Okay. So it went up a decent
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    amount though, in a couple of years.
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    Yeah. Ultimately it took me six year
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    to complete my PhD. So over the
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    course of six years that's how much we went up.
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    Okay. So a stipend currently in the UK,
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    and this is for 2025 to 2026, you
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    would probably make just under 21,000
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    pounds. And importantly that stipend
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    isn't taxed, so you get all of the money.
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    Yeah. Yes. And how much, how much is
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    an American one? I actually don't
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    know what the current numbers are.
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    That's a good question.
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    I put it in there.
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    There we go. It's like 20 to 50.
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    20 to 50 K. Yeah. I was like,
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    I don't know. I, I think too, it's so
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    varying depending on where you
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    live as well. Like I know that some,
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    you know, places, especially in
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    pricier areas like California or
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    New York, they might be able to
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    give you a better stipend because
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    your cost of living is gonna be
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    significantly more than someone
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    may be in Texas or Tennessee
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    So it is like probably a very wide range.
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    I think that that also is to do with
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    humanities versus STEM because
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    I wasn't necessarily looking just
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    for STEM. Yeah. So I think that
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    might've incorporated some
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    humanities and they are
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    unfortunately paid a lot less
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    than STEM degrees, I don't know why.
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    And Yeah. And being part of the
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    School of Medicine, I think we
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    some of the best paid grad students
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    on the campus.
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    Wouldn't surprise me.
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    Yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately. But yeah,
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    so, but ours is also taxed, so most
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    of the time I think it sometimes can
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    be a little confusing and maybe
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    even frustrating about how the
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    stipend works in America because
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    you generally don't get something
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    like a W2 that you can easily submit
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    to pay your taxes. Nothing's withheld.
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    So you need to withhold yourself
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    and make sure that you're paying
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    it properly. So it can be a little bit
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    more to figure out and not as easy
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    or convenient, but you do have to pay taxes on it.
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    Did your graduate school have
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    like a presentation once a year
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    to help you do your taxes? Because
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    I know some schools do that.
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    No, and that would've been great.
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    I know some do, and I know, I
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    think even mine has started to do
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    things, but when we were starting,
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    they literally had kind of like meetings
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    that were basically like, we will
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    not help you with your taxes. This is
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    your responsibility. You guys figure it out.
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    The don't want to get sued!
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    Like, I don't know what the ultimate goal
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    of that was, but I'm glad they're
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    starting to incorporate work.
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    Yeah. No, we, we definitely did
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    it until we got told that, you know,
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    we could get sued if they got given
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    the wrong information. So we did it for
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    a while and then it stopped at the
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    graduate school I was an associate
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    dean for. Okay. So another big
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    thing is the fees that you pay. So
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    in the UK if you're a domestic student,
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    you are gonna pay just short of 5,000
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    pounds, and that's per year. If you're
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    an international student, you are
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    going to pay significantly more,
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    anywhere between 20 and 35,000
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    pounds. And then in addition to that,
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    we have something called a bench
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    fee or a research support fee, so
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    that basically helps to pay for all
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    of the things that you use in the lab.
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    Which could be anywhere between
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    1000 to 10,000 pounds and that's
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    per year. And then obviously if you
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    get a scholarship or some kind of
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    thing through your program, they
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    might pay for a portion or all of that.
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    So luckily for me, I had to pay
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    zero which is awesome. But some
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    people do have to pay. So what
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    are the fees in America?
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    Yeah, so we also have tuition
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    and I think there generally tends
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    to be things like in-state versus
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    out of state. And then obviously
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    if you're an international student.
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    What I will say is at least in the
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    school of medicine, and when I
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    was in grad school, we got our
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    tuition waived. So no one paid
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    for tuition. We also got free health
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    insurance and yeah, so it, it ended
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    up being something that wasn't
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    really a cost that came out of the
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    stipend that we received. Generally
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    though, how it would work is there's
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    like a period in which the actual,
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    like the school of medicine paid
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    for your stipend until you joined a
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    lab, and then your PI would likely
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    have to take over those tuition
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    costs essentially from, yeah, the school.
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    So even though you aren't gonna
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    have to get it taken out of your,
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    you know, like actual stipend,
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    somebody is likely paying for it
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    in some way, or there might be
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    waivers that exist for portions
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    or all of your kind of schooling
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    or training there. But yeah, I think
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    it totally just kind of depends
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    on the program. And again, like
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    the school of medicine got a
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    lot of perks that other kind of
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    departments and schools did
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    not get so I think in terms of
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    fees and things like that, if you
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    are at universities that aren't
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    going to offer tuition waivers
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    or are gonna require you to pay
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    for some of that, it could range
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    anywhere from, you know, like six
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    to $11,000 for instate up to 25
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    plus for out of state or international
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    students. So could be a big range.
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    Yeah. And I think that it is important
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    to note that if you're out of state,
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    that's the same fee you pay as an
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    international student. Yes.
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    Which to me is incredible because,
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    you know, if you go from, I don't know,
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    Texas to California, it almost feels
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    like you should be paying less than
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    someone who's coming from an
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    international country. So that's a
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    bargain frankly. If you are going out
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    of state, um, it's a little crazy. And
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    then there is a difference between
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    a public institution and a private
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    institution. So did you wanna say
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    what the difference between those are?
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    In terms of the cost?
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    Uh, well, the cost, but also like what
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    is the difference? Like if someone
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    doesn't know the difference between
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    a public institution and a private,
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    so what is the difference between them?
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    Yeah. Most of the time that's generally
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    kind of how they're funded. So a
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    lot of public institutions are gonna
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    be funded by state or even federal
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    funds. Whereas private institutions
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    are generally not, they might still
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    receive them in some capacity, but
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    they generally don't have to follow
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    some of the specific kind of guidelines
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    or rules. They get a little bit more
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    freedom sometimes in the ways
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    that they're able to operate and
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    they generally aren't receiving those
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    state or federal funds. But yeah,
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    in terms of the cost, that generally
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    makes those private institutions a
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    lot more expensive. And so the public
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    institutions tend to be a bit more
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    affordable, especially when you're
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    thinking about the tuition costs.
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    And the way that I think of a public
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    institution is it's usually like the
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    state schools. So like the University
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    of California would be a public
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    institution or the University of Maryland
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    or Virginia, or actually is UVA is that public?
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    Yes, but the one that always trips
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    me up is the University of Pennsylvania.
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    That one is a private institution.
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    Oh, it is? I'm pretty sure someone
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    can come for me, but I'm pretty sure.
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    So I know that if you're interested
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    if you've heard of the Ivy League,
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    that's only for a small portion of the
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    country and it's only a few universities,
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    but there's now lists for different categories.
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    So there's now something called
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    the Public Ivy League table, which
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    comprises of universities across
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    the whole of the country which is
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    awesome. So if you want to go
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    somewhere, which you're still gonna
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    get a great education, but it's
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    not gonna cost the world look up
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    the public list of Ivy Leagues and
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    just to give you a hint, my favorite,
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    the UC's are all in there. So University
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    of California, totally representing.
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    Yeah. I think too, both of the schools
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    I attended, the University of Virginia
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    and the University of Florida think
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    have made the public Ivy list. But
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    yeah, so it's, yeah, you can still
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    a great education and it not cost
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    the world, which I think is something
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    that people sometimes forget. Yeah. Yeah.
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    Sounds, just because prestige doesn't
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    mean that it's necessarily going to
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    give you an amazing it. Remember, it
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    also depends on your professor and
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    the people in the lab who are training you.
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    Yeah. Definitely, and I think, I honestly
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    didn't even know that you could get
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    paid at one point for going to a,
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    especially like a PhD program, especially
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    a lot of the ones in the United States,
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    they tend to at least give you some
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    sort of a stipend and a lot of the times they'll
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    waive your tuition so you don't even
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    have to pay those fees. But you're
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    able to get a good education. You're
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    maybe not making a ton of money,
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    but you are getting that degree from
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    a great institution for not quite as much.
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    Possibly getting more than the Brits.
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    I guess we need to do the, the pound
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    versus dollar conversion. Yeah.
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    That would've been clever for me to
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    do that, but I did not look into that.
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    I guess it depends on the day,
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    so I guess it doesn't matter.
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    True.
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    Okay, so we, should we talk about
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    funding? Because at home in the
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    UK we have a number of different
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    ways that you can get funded.
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    A lot of them are different research
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    councils, depending on your research
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    focus. So a couple of them would
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    be the Biotechnology and Bioscience
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    Research Council, or the BBSRC.
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    You also have the Engineering and
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    Physical Sciences Research Council,
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    or the EPSRC, and then you can get
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    private funding from like Cancer Research
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    UK or someone else. So it depends.
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    You might be able to apply for your
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    own funding, but usually if your professor
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    has put a position out there, they've
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    got the funding for three years.
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    Yeah. So funding is a little different
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    for a lot of the institutions in the US.
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    So part of it is that your PI might
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    have funding, you know, for a project
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    you're working on initially, they might
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    not, but they could still take you.
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    And then on top of that, like you
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    can obviously apply for your own
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    funding. They can apply for other
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    funding for different projects that
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    you work on. The largest funder,
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    especially for biomedical research
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    in the US is the National Institutes
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    of Health at the NIH. So most people
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    have some sort of a grant from the
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    NIH, at especially R1 or kind of like
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    really high level research institutes
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    in the US. Other options are places
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    like the National Science Foundation
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    or NSF, that funds a ton of people
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    as well. There's also private funding
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    and then also there tends to be a
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    lot of internal ways that you can
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    make, you know, basically get scholarships
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    from your institution. So there's
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    normally grants or foundations they
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    also have to do like training grants
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    as well, especially kind of for those
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    first couple years of your PhD that
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    you're able to apply for and get
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    some funding for as well.
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    I will say scholarships are, are
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    kind of fun, at our graduate school
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    we had a few competitions depending
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    on what year you were in. And so
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    first years could win and that was
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    due to their academic performance
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    in courses. And then for later years
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    it might be on a research proposal
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    that they've put in and it was looked
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    at similar to like a mini grant proposal
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    where it got reviewed by a team and
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    then the winners won the scholarship.
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    So look out for those if you are gonna
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    go to school because having those
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    on your CV will definitely help you
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    in the future because they are
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    quite prestigious to win.
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    Yeah, definitely. And also at our
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    institution, if you ever did get
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    some of those bigger grants,
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    especially from the NSF or the NIH,
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    they actually would give you an
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    extra bump in your stipend. So
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    you've got like a little extra bonus
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    for getting awards like the F31.
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    So yeah, those are other ways that
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    you can even just make a little extra.
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    Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So should we talk
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    about the structure? Yeah, because
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    they are quite different.
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    Yes. And I wonder too, I'm curious if
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    this also plays into maybe some
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    of the difference in the timeframes.
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    Oh, it has. It absolutely has to.
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    Yes. But yeah, so at least in kind
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    of the biomedical sciences in
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    particular, but most of the PhD
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    programs, again you're thinking
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    about this in roughly the average
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    of five and a half to six years. And
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    normally those first two years are
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    gonna be really heavy on a lot of
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    different courses and other things
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    that you need to take as requirements.
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    For our institution, the way they
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    did it was actually like you came
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    in as like kind of a group and a
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    cohort from all different, again,
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    kind of disciplines underneath
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    some sort of umbrella of biomedical
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    sciences. We had to take a course
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    altogether that was called the core
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    course. It was kind of just like ultimately
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    like kind of the main things you
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    need to know, but kind of what that
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    looks like can vary so much between
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    different institutions. Like literally
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    between every different program
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    there can be different requirements
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    on what the courses look like. And
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    then we have lots of the required
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    courses like ethics or kind of also
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    just like stats, data courses. But
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    pretty much by the end of your
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    second year, those were all done.
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    There were very few courses you
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    needed to take beyond that.
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    And then you primarily focused
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    on doing research and then that
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    also kind of broke things up as
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    well in terms of like exams and
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    ways that you kind of progressed
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    through the program. So it's like
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    the first two years are kind of course
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    heavy. Then roughly around your
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    second year you need to do a
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    qualifying exam, and that's when
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    you move from a PhD student to
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    a PhD candidate. If you pass, those
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    look also very different. So maybe
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    that's something we can talk about
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    too, is what all these kind of candidacy
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    exams look like. But then you roughly
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    do research for kind of the remainder
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    of those four-ish years, and then that
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    ultimately ends with you defending
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    your dissertation.
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    Okay, so the English system or the
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    British system is quite different.
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    So the way I look at it is because
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    we specialize earlier. So I did an
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    applied biochemistry and molecular
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    biology undergraduate degree. So
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    from the age of 18, that's all I did.
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    So I covered biology, chemistry,
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    maths, statistics. I didn't do do any
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    other language. I didn't do any
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    humanities. It was pure science.
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    And so we don't do any classes,
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    we don't do any courses, presumably
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    because we've covered more of it
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    in our undergrad. And I can tell you
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    that having had British students in
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    the graduate school that I worked in,
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    when they did their courses, they
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    just felt that they were relearning
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    the same information. They weren't
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    stretched in any way. They, you know,
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    felt that it was utter nonsense.
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    But they were forced to basically do
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    it again which they were very
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    disappointed in. So we go straight
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    in because you know what your project
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    is, there's no rotations. You go in
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    on day one, you start doing your
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    literature review, learning your topic,
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    and then get trained by the people
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    in the lab on various techniques
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    and other things. I had a meeting
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    with someone from my university.
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    It was actually in between my
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    second and third year, but they'd
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    essentially forgotten me. It's supposed
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    to be done between the first
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    and second year but because I
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    did my PhD and I wasn't on the
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    university campus, I was at the
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    medical research laboratory, so I was
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    at a completely different place
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    about 30 miles away. So eventually
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    when all of my friends who were
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    the year below me were doing this,
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    I was like, wait, am I supposed to
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    do that? And so I contacted them
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    and they were like, oh, yeah, you are,
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    you know, so write a short paper.
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    It was like, I don't know, 10, 15 pages
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    on my research. And then I had to
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    go in and meet with an internal professor,
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    and we just had a conversation
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    for like an hour on my research. And
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    he asked me lots of questions and
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    it was actually really helpful because
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    he ended up being my examiner. And
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    because of that conversation, I
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    knew that he wasn't gonna ask me
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    questions on the proteins that I was
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    researching. He was gonna ask me
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    the questions on the proteins that
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    he was researching, which were
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    somewhat in the same pathway,
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    but I wasn't researching his proteins.
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    So that definitely helped. And
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    then at three years, I handed in
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    my dissertation and then a few
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    months later, it takes a little longer
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    in the UK to have your exam and
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    we call it, this is gonna sound really
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    funny, we always called it a viva.
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    But when I Googled it, because I have
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    heard it called a viva, and like we used
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    to laugh at people going, viva, that's
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    wrong. It's a viva. But according to
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    Google, the technical term is a viva
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    voce, which is Latin for oral exam.
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    That makes sense.
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    So viva, viva. I'm gonna say viva
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    because that's what we always
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    used to say, but maybe my Latin,
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    which is non-existent is wrong.
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    It's understandable that maybe
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    it's not quite polished.
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    Not really. But no, it was definitely
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    a moment. But I'm very thankful
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    for that mini exam because without
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    it, I wouldn't have known how to
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    handle my proper one because I
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    literally spent weeks before my
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    exam researching his proteins,
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    which had nothing to do with mine.
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    Yeah, that's so interesting.
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    So, yeah. So should we talk about
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    what the defense looks like?
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    Yeah, so I guess too, I can like
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    back up and talk a little about our
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    qualifying exam. So that generally
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    for most programs, essentially
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    looked like creating specific things
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    like specific aims page, and that's
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    what you would send out to a committee
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    that you assemble. And then
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    basically they'd read that and
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    then you do a presentation
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    where you walk through what
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    you're planning to do for your
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    dissertation project. I was in a
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    program that decided to kind of
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    change things up and do something
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    different. So also, again, like things
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    are so dependent on different
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    departments and schools. I actually
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    did, like, after my second year, we
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    wrote a review paper and then that
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    is actually what we did a presentation
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    on, essentially kind of the background
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    of whatever our research project was.
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    Then following our third year, we essentially
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    had to do the specific aims page and talk
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    about our actual research project,
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    which people have mixed opinions about.
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    And then again, that kind of at the
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    end was that dissertation defense,
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    the way also dissertations are written
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    can vary so much between different
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    disciplines, schools, universities,
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    and the requirements that they have.
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    UVA was very relaxed with their
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    requirements for the dissertation.
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    It was essentially, you write kind of
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    an introduction, you write conclusion,
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    but you kind of staple all of your
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    papers and all the work that you've
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    done kind of in between. And I
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    don't know if anybody actually
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    read my whole dissertation. So
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    there was that. I don't think anybody
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    did. I, you essentially give it out to
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    your committee, a bit before you
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    actually defend. But I don't think
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    a single person read the whole thing.
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    How long was it? Because I'm
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    used to people waiting like a few weeks.
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    Yeah. So when they found out that
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    I waited, like I think mine was. I
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    handed mine in in September
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    and I didn't defend until towards
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    the middle to the end of November.
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    So that was definitely two months.
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    Yeah. I think generally it's recommended
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    Yeah. To give like a couple weeks to
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    a month beforehand to let like your
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    committee look at it. But honestly,
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    I, again, like I don't, I don't know how
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    many of them actually take any of
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    that time to read through it. So, the
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    actual defense though, is generally
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    split up between a private and a
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    public defense. And that also can
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    look really different depending on
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    the institution that you're at. The way
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    our university, like my department also,
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    not even just everyone at UVA, but
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    my department did it by first you do
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    a private defense, and so it's just your
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    committee. You do a presentation
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    talking about everything that's basically
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    in your dissertation. They grill you,
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    ask you a bunch of questions, but then
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    if they approve and they think that
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    it kind of meets the standards, then
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    you pass. And then you pretty much
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    set like the last requirement is to do
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    a public defense, but if you've passed
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    your private, you are guaranteed pretty
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    much to pass at that point. And so
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    then you do a public defense. That's when
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    you can invite other people, friends,
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    family, and then do a public defense.
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    Basically the same presentation that
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    you gave to your committee, you do
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    again in public. Some kind of departments
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    do them together. So it's like you'll first
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    do this public defense where everybody
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    comes, you do that presentation and
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    then you have the private defense
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    but right after that and then your
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    whole committee just grills you on
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    what you presented. But generally it
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    looks like one of those two things.
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    And I've heard that for most places,
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    they generally don't even let you get
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    to the point of like scheduling that
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    defense if they don't think that you're
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    ready to pass it. So most people end
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    up passing their dissertation defenses.
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    Yeah. Do you, have you known anyone
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    who got sent back and had to continue
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    working or not?
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    Not for the dissertation defense. I
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    have for the qualifying exam but not
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    for the dissertation defense, no
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    Okay. So yeah, ours is definitely
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    different. So I actually, I think
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    it's because I was based at two
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    different places. because I got
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    my degree from a university, but
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    was based at the medical research
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    council. So I gave a lecture or a
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    presentation at the MRC. And then
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    I went to my university and gave a
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    seminar there which was completely
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    separate. So two completely different
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    days. And then that was before the
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    end of September. And then I had my
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    defense in November. And my defense
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    was just with two people. So I had one
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    external examiner who was an expert
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    in my field, and then I had the same
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    internal examiner who I'd already met
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    with and therefore, you know, prepared for.
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    And normally we always got told
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    that the external examiner is gonna
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    be the worst one because they are
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    the expert in your field. Mine wasn't,
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    it was my internal, and that's purely
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    because he just kept asking me
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    questions related to his research,
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    which was great. Thankfully I had
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    already prepared for that but still
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    it was a struggle. And, then you
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    can have a few different things can
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    come out of that you can pass
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    with no corrections whatsoever,
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    which is incredibly rare. You can
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    pass with some corrections, or I
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    have known people to either fail
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    outright or be sent back to either
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    do more research or to rewrite
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    parts or all of their thesis. So
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    I have known that to happen. And
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    so I had to do some changes, and
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    it was just nitpicky. And it was so
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    funny because when you said that
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    people didn't read your thesis, both
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    of mine had read the entire thing.
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    They had tabs on the various pages,
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    and my exam was basically going
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    through page by page and then them
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    asking me the relevant questions that
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    they'd come up with on that page,
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    I answered them and then we kept going.
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    So they definitely, very different.
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    They'll definitely read it because there
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    were notes and like sometimes they'd
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    be like, we just don't like the way you
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    wrote this. But then there'd be a note.
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    And so I got basically a list of the things
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    that they wanted corrected, and it
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    was so nitpicky. It was because my
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    thesis was on DNA repair. So obviously
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    one of the first publications that I
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    referenced was Watson and Crick right.
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    Except I'd only put in like one initial
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    and they wanted all four. It was, it was
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    great. It was great. And so I had to
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    change them and then I had to email
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    per chapter, to my internal examiner
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    surprise, my internal, so he could check
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    that I had corrected it and then I was
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    allowed to print it out for the final copy
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    and he checked every single one.
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    Yeah. Yeah. I think it totally, it's so
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    variable and I think too, part of it is
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    like the PI that I worked with that was
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    not something that they personally
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    thought was as valuable to like comb
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    through. Like they cared much more
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    about doing that with publications
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    than your dissertation. And especially
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    since the way that ours worked was
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    essentially you putting all of your
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    publications just kind of like in the
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    middle of your dissertation.
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    A lot of that they probably already
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    looked through with the fine tooth comb.
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    But yeah, no, I think that's, that's
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    kind of interesting just how wide a
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    variety there can be in terms of the
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    scrutiny. Yeah. 'cause my publications
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    were at the end. So they were like,
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    we had to read them to get to the
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    publications. And then how about
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    were publications required? Because
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    they weren't required and I don't think
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    there's, they're required in the UK
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    because obviously you may or may not
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    be lucky enough to get a publication
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    if you're depending on how
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    your research pans out.
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    Yeah. And at my particular program,
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    it was required that you had a first
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    author publication to defend.
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    You had to have at least one, you
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    had to be the first author and it had
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    to be published. And I think that is
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    one of the reasons too, for that
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    extended timeline, because like you
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    said, like so often research fails, you
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    do not have positive data that most
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    publications like journals are going
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    to wanna publish. And so it can take
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    a lot more time to just actually create
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    some sort of a story that's going to
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    eventually get published. But yeah,
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    it was a requirement. But to be fair,
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    again, like it's so variable because like
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    even within kind of the different
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    departments that kind of made up
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    overall, like all the biomedical sciences
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    at UVA, like one did not have the
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    requirement, mine did. And so again,
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    it's just kind of like all over the place
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    in terms of what the requirements are.
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    Yeah, I think it's, I think it's a bit harsh
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    because especially nowadays, it can
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    take such a long time for your paper
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    to get reviewed by a journal. And then
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    they might want changes or they might
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    just, you know, reject it and then
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    you've gotta do that process again.
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    Like if you needed that to graduate,
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    you could be spending so many more
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    years just waiting for that paper to
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    get approved and to go through.
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    I know people who have waited
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    years to basically to get a paper
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    That just doesn't seem right to me
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    because you're still making $30,000.
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    You're not getting, you don't
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    paid postdoc salary because you're
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    practically done. Is it? What ABD,
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    all but dissertation is what everyone
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    says. So you're like waiting and you
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    are like, this paper is hopefully going
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    to be coming through. That just seems
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    really unnecessary to me because
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    you've done the work. I mean, I can
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    kind of see both ways and I know
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    that at one time I should have looked
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    into it. I wanna say if you graduate
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    with a PhD from a Scandinavian
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    country, you have to have multiple
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    first author papers. It's not just one.
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    Yeah, I, I had not heard that. That
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    sounds extra brutal, but I agree
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    with a lot of your points. I just think
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    that, especially because grad
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    students don't make a ton of money.
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    It is part of the steps towards getting
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    to kind of like, ultimately kind of
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    where you wanna be in your career.
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    To kind of basically stall it out in this
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    one spot for things that sometimes
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    are not within your control. Like you
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    can't control if everything's gonna
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    work out and your paper's, gonna
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    get published. If it was that easy,
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    then maybe that's fine to make it
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    a requirement, but I think that it can
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    definitely stall things and make it
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    take a lot longer than it's necessary.
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    But also this was a struggle and I'm
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    curious if this also was the case in
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    the UK, but you know, I also knew
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    some people who had their kind of
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    graduations stalled because their
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    PI wanted to publish in a really high
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    impact journal and even though the
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    student was like, we could totally
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    get this accepted if we just knock it
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    down, you know, by the impact factor
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    a little bit, they kind of had to stay
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    around and do extra work so that
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    they could hopefully get into these
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    higher impact journals. And that's
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    another thing too that makes it tricky
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    is when you can't even decide exactly
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    where it's going. Having to spend
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    more time. But is that, was that kind
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    of also the case too in the UK?
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    I think it is a case. I think the problem,
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    the problem is because you have a
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    committee in America, so you are
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    getting annual meetings.
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    Yeah. I think some places do
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    every six months now, but Yeah.
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    Yeah. So you're getting regular
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    meetings with your committee.
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    They know how your research
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    is going. You can go to them for
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    advice, especially if you are having
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    issues with your professor. So
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    whether it's where you publish,
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    or I know some instances where
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    the professor, now that you are
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    really well-trained and you're, you
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    know, doing your research really
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    well, they don't want you to graduate.
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    They're now like, if I get at least
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    another year or two out of you
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    where you're basically a postdoc,
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    but being paid as a graduate student,
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    they save money, but they get
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    great research out of you. And so
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    I've known graduate students who've
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    had to leverage their committee
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    for their committee to say, you know,
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    this isn't right they're ready to graduate.
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    You need to allow them to move forward.
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    And whether that's then involved
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    going to the administration to kind
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    of push that through, that's more
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    of an issue. Whereas in the UK you
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    don't have a committee. You just have
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    your professor, like if something came
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    up, I guess you could go to your
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    department head. But whether they
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    have, they can really do anything
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    because they're not part of the training.
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    You, I guess you could, you could try
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    and go to someone on the educational
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    side and say, you know, this is holding
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    me up. Especially because once you're
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    out of money in the UK, like your
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    funding's gone because the funding is
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    usually for three years with the possibility
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    of like a fourth year extension. There
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    isn't a 5, 6, 7, like if you run out of money,
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    you are literally expected to still pay
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    tuition because obviously there's no
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    more waivers for you. They're not
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    paying for it. So I had a friend who
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    had to continue paying their tuition
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    but they weren't getting paid by the
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    place, whilst they figured out what
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    was going on with their PhD.
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    Wow.
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    So the student is getting penalized
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    because the professor isn't allowing
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    them to move forward. Yeah.
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    So I love the fact that you have a
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    committee. I think that puts the graduate
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    student in a much stronger position,
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    and that's one of the things that I really
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    appreciated when I moved here and
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    saw the strength of the committee
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    because obviously, you know, the
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    committee's advising you for years,
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    so they might suggest other experiments
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    or come up with other ideas that
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    your professor or you haven't even
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    considered. I think the committee is a
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    really important part.
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    Yeah. I agree. Yeah, I think it's interesting,
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    yeah. That you guys don't have
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    committees and I do think they are
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    super valuable. I think that sometimes
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    what people maybe always don't
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    factor in is just the politics of science
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    and the fact that, you know, at the end
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    of the day, your committee is going
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    to be working with your PI for hopefully
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    ever and sometimes that does create
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    strife in just that, you know, what maybe
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    even is best for the grad student, if the
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    PI's really against it. Is everyone, like on
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    your committee going to fight the PI
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    on it? Maybe not. But I do think it's at
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    least nice to have people throughout
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    the process that you get to know.
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    They get to know you, they get to know
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    your project, they get to weigh in and
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    provide insight and I think that that
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    is incredibly valuable.
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    Did you get to pick your committee?
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    Because I know that depending on
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    the PI sometimes they're like, okay,
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    these are my buddies. These should
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    be on your committee or some other
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    people have been like, no, no, you
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    choose, but that creates some issues
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    because what happens if you don't
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    want the people that they've selected
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    or not necessarily suggested maybe.
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    Exactly. And I, yeah, at least for me,
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    it was kind of like a mix of both.
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    There were certain people where he
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    is like, these people should be on the
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    committee. Like they just like should
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    be. But he's like, yeah, but you can pick
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    out who else you want to kind of fill it
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    out. I think for my committee, I think
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    it's five members total. So also what that looks like..
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    And then an external or five including the external?
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    So at my institution, there was no
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    external required. There was essentially
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    a, someone outside of your department.
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    There had to be one person that was
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    not in the same department as you.
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    But there, they didn't have to be from
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    a different university. So all of mine
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    were at the same institution. Just one
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    of them was in biomedical engineering.
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    So that made it different enough.
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    And yeah, then essentially there was a
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    couple that were like, you should have
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    them on your committee. Then I
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    selected the rest, and then they all had
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    some like, sort of roles, like there
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    were, I think like three different roles
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    I had to assign. So one of them was
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    the chair of my committee, and
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    they're like kind of person that just
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    like helps organize everything. They're
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    the ones that I guess like also directly
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    communicate with me and my PI
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    and like figure out how things are going.
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    And then I think there was someone
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    who needed to be in charge of kind
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    of like the scientific rigor of my project.
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    I think they had to like sign off. Sign off
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    on certain things. So yeah, they have like,
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    I think that it totally depends on the
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    institution you're at, the department,
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    the school, again, like pretty much
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    everything I've said, but that's how my.
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    Yeah, no, I've never heard of I think I
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    might have heard of like a chair of a
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    committee, but never like the rigor.
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    I kind of like that. As the person who
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    used to teach responsible conduct
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    of research, I appreciate that. Yeah.
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    Honestly, though, like there are some
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    very valuable parts about having kind
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    of these different roles within a committee
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    and then also just a committee overall.
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    So it is, it was a good idea.
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    Weird question. Did you used to give
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    your committee food and drink
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    whilst you were meeting?
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    Yeah. So for the first year or two I
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    was in grad school this was like the
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    unspoken rule. It's like you bring
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    coffee and you bring some sort of,
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    you know, like snacks for any of your,
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    especially big like qualifying exams
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    and things like that, but also any
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    committee meetings. And then I
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    think my second year they actually
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    sent out an email to everybody in
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    the college, basically the whole school,
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    and was like, we are not going to
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    ask grad students to do this anymore.
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    Like, this is not an expectation. You're
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    obviously welcome to keep doing it
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    if you want, but this is not an expectation
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    that we have of you. Like, please
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    don't waste your money on this, basically.
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    I love and appreciate that fact because
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    there wasn't a written rule in my graduate
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    school, but everybody knew that if you
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    wanted a better committee meeting
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    that you ought to provide coffee and
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    pastries. And there's a famous bakery
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    with numerous locations around the
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    LA area called Porto's and you know,
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    you would see students coming in
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    with Starbucks coffee and very
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    noticeable Porto's boxes. And you
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    just think, and I, I was just appalled
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    because I'm like, oh my gosh, these
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    professors are literally doing their
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    service requirement right now. It's
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    part of their job requirement. And
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    yet the students feel that they need
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    to spend quite a lot of money on
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    these things to kind of make sure their
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    committee meeting goes on. And it
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    was so disheartening because it's
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    just like, you shouldn't have to do that.
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    Like they should just be happy that
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    they're helping you in your career.
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    And it used to really frustrate me
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    because I'm like, you know, these
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    boxes of pastries are coming in and
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    you know that they've spent, you know,
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    maybe $50 or more and you don't
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    get paid a lot as we've discussed.
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    And it would, it traumatize me on
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    so many different levels that, because
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    I'd be like, what happened? What
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    would happen if you didn't give them that?
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    Like, would they literally make your life worse?
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    Which would be awful if they did.
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    But yeah, I honestly was really happy
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    to just, especially as a newer grad
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    student, you know, you're like, I wanna
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    make everybody happy and like, make
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    sure everybody is, you know, like, I'm
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    doing what I'm supposed to be doing
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    because I feel like I don't know what I'm
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    doing. And so it was nice to kind of
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    have some confirmation from kind
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    of more administrators being like,
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    you don't have to do this. And I think
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    I still did. I still would buy like, at least
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    like some bagels or like some good
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    coffee thing. But also like, it didn't feel
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    like a stretch to me. And it was something
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    I was like wanting to do instead of
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    feeling like this is like a rule, like we have to.
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    Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think the only time,
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    so for my first meeting with my internal,
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    obviously zero food, it was an hour.
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    I didn't even consider taking in. I think.
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    And then for my actual defense, it was
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    after lunch. So didn't take anything in,
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    but I know from other friends' experiences
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    if their viva was in the morning. Because
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    I know people who've had like six hour
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    vivas because I go page by page right.
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    So it depends on how long you go.
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    I was lucky mine was only 90 minutes.
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    But I know people who've literally,
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    they've sent out lunch, like they're
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    not finished. So they've asked the
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    department to provide lunch and
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    drinks for everyone and then the
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    exam continues whilst everyone's,
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    which I can't imagine because you
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    can't really eat and answer questions.
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    Yeah. So I'm sure the examiners are
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    all eating and the poor person who's
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    doing their viva is like trying to have the odd bite.
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    Yeah small bites between their words.
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    Yes. I think vivas can definitely go a
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    lot longer than a defense in America.
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    Yeah. Especially because most of the
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    time you need your whole committee
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    to attend and so to get five PIs basically
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    like in the same place at the same time,
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    without another commitment, you don't
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    have that much time. You just don't.
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    Yeah. Yeah. So I guess there's pros and
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    cons of the committee. Yeah. I don't know
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    how I would've felt if I had one because
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    I really didn't have any issue with my PI.
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    He was really awesome. In fact, he was
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    the reason why I could write up so
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    quickly because in my first year he had
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    me writing little documents on all of
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    the different proteins and things that
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    I needed to, and then at the end he wa
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    like, and that's your introduction.
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    Yeah put that together!
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    And you just need to add, you know,
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    the new details as they come in.
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    But realistically your introduction is
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    written. And then all of my friends were
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    like, how did you do that? And it's like,
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    well, remember when you were laughing
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    at my assignments? Well, those are my introduction.
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    Yeah, exactly. That's great. Honestly.
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    He was a clever guy. Okay. And then
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    when you finished, because I have a
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    copy of my thesis in the British Library
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    that, so when we had to get the final
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    product bound, one of them was to go
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    into like my university library. One was
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    to the British library and then, you know,
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    your PI and then family members. So
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    did one of your copies go somewhere fancy?
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    Honestly, no. They had an electronic
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    database essentially where everyone
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    submits their thesis and if you want
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    you can get it printed and like bound
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    and put in a book and things like that
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    but nobody's requesting that. You can
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    also do it just for yourself if you want
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    to, but other than that, it just kind of
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    lives in this electronic database at,
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    Did you print it out?
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    Nope, we didn't print it out. I think
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    that that was something too that
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    was more relatively new. I think
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    because they were also just like
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    these giant documents that nobody's
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    looking at or getting, like all kind
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    of like printed out. He's looking at,
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    See I feel like the thing too is just
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    like, would I even go back and look
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    at this thing? No. And also if I wanted
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    to do it, especially from a scientific
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    standpoint, I feel like it would be
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    nice to have it in a digital format
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    so I could like command f my way
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    through it. So I think that they were
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    just like, the cost of it and like kind
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    of all those components aren't something
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    we're gonna like require, but
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    you can if you want to.
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    Yeah. I don't even know if I have an
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    electronic copy of mine. But bearing
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    in mind, I submitted in 2004, so
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    21 years later I don't think so.
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    Yeah, this was also 2023, so we're
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    like also post COVID. I feel like too,
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    COVID kind of also kind of just made
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    things a little different. It was harder
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    for things to even be in person.
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    Like even my dissertation defense,
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    I kind of like requested that there
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    not be a Zoom option, but most of
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    most things still had Zoom options
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    and you know, like things were not as,
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    I think it was definitely moving in a
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    much more digital format, everything,
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    even meetings and and things like that so.
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    I wonder what happened. Because I
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    know, I remember my professor had
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    like a rack of dissertations behind him
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    and he'd be like, you know, all of these
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    are like my students. So I guess that's
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    kind of sad if that doesn't happen
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    anymore because I would just go and,
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    you know, take a book and because I
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    know when I wrote my acknowledgement
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    section, which was the hardest section
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    to write, I had a bunch of different,
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    you know, versions in front of me from
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    other people and I kinda like, oh, I like
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    the way they said that. And like, just
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    kind of pinch different things. But if it's
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    digital, you can't really do that as easily.
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    Because how did you see digital
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    copies from other people?
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    I did. So yeah, when I was writing mine
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    just to get a sense too of like format
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    or how people kind of did some of their
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    sections and things, I looked through
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    some of the digital like thesises.
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    Okay. So that is a thing.
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    Well, yeah, yeah. You still could, yeah.
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    You still kind of all accessible and you
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    can see things and read them if you want.
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    But yeah, it's not as satisfying. Probably
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    it's like holding a book that someone
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    like really poured themself into, you know,
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    you I feel like you lose a little of
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    that when it's just online.
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    Yeah, I remember handing my mum
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    a copy and her going, okay dear,
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    and putting it on the table. And I
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    don't think, I think she might have
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    looked at the acknowledgements
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    just to make sure she's in there but
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    I very much doubt she has got to
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    like page one while we talk about
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    what DNA is. So, well, I guess that, I
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    mean, there is, there are 20 years
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    in between your submission and mine.
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    Things are so different. I heard of
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    another program kind of at the, like
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    a different institution and they were
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    super specific. First of all, you
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    to pay actually to get your thesis
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    basically like published. And then
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    you had it to have incredibly impeccable
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    formatting if things were not, like,
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    the margins weren't correct and
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    like everything wasn't properly like
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    sectioned off using the correct Roman
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    numerals and like all these different
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    things, they would not accept your
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    thesis and that could even delay people
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    from walking for graduation. So like,
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    I think it's like there's so much variety
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    in how some of these institutions kind
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    of prioritize things and how they
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    wanna, how they wanna do it.
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    Sounds like my internal examiner
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    Yeah.
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    I'm pretty sure if I had messed
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    anything up he would've sent me
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    back because we did have very
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    strict requirements. Yeah. And all
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    of my images had to be on their
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    own page. And then with a, like I
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    had to have a table of figures and
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    a table of, yeah. It was super fun.
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    I feel kind of fortunate that ours
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    was not so nitpicky but I mean,
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    also I feel like you get some, like
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    a really beautiful product at the
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    end of it. Ours was kind of basically
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    just a big giant PDF of everything altogether.
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    Yeah, I dunno. It is what it is. But
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    I think there's definitely pros and
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    cons to the different ways of doing it
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    It is quite nice to be able to just whip
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    it out whenever I want and be like,
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    ta da I've written a book.
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    Yes.
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    Okay. So if you could do it again, and
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    you had the option of doing it in the
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    UK versus America, would you still choose America?
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    This is a good question. I think what's
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    tricky is all the things we don't talk
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    about in this video, right? Just like family,
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    friends, friends, cultural differences,
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    if there are any, you know, just like the,
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    the things that I feel like are. Not
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    just the numbers and facts and figures.
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    That make it feel like I would probably
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    do one in the US still. But I think what
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    is really cool about going abroad and
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    I think a, just like getting to experience
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    other areas of the world, getting to also
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    like, I think have a shorter duration of
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    your PhD sounds great. Like, it sounds
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    like there's a lot of perks for being
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    able to do it in the UK. But I think I
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    might still pick the US but probably
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    more so for all the reasons that were
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    not ones we talked about today.
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    What about you? Would you still
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    do your PhD in the UK?
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    Oh, oh, see, this is the thing. I was
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    an associate dean for years, so I
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    kinda enjoy the American system.
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    I think I'd have been frustrated if I
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    needed to repeat the classes. I
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    mean the English students that I've
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    seen were just pulling the hair out
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    and I couldn't do anything about it.
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    So for that reason, I would probably
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    still do the UK version. But I will
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    admit that because you do rotations
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    and you usually have longer to research,
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    that the American or the, the people
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    who do the American PhD usually
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    would have more research experience
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    by the time they graduate, which I think
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    is important. It's only because I did
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    my year at VCU, got it right that time.
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    That I had four years of research going
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    into my postdoc, because I did see
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    a difference between the people who'd
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    gone through the American system
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    versus the people who'd gone through
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    the British and some of the European
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    systems are longer. So I think there
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    is a little bit of a difference. But no,
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    I enjoyed mine. Luckily I didn't have
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    any issues. But I can see if someone
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    did have issues with the professor,
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    the American system is better in that
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    way. You, I feel like you are more protected.
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    Yeah. Yeah. And there definitely
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    are some extra safeguards there
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    that are nice, but I think that there's
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    like a lot about the UK system that
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    makes a lot of sense. You know, like
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    not repeating all these courses
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    actually training people maybe from
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    the beginning for what they actually
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    wanna do ultimately as a career.
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    Having be a shorter timeframe,
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    especially since you're making less
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    money. So, yeah, I think there's definitely
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    pros and cons on both sides.
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    Okay. Do you think that's everything
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    we wanna cover. I think so, right
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    I think so, yeah.
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    Okay. Well thank you for joining me
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    today, Shayla. It's been a pleasure.
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    We're gonna do a couple of these
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    videos on a variety of different things.
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    We haven't touched Shayla's expertise
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    yet, so wait for the video that's
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    coming on project management and
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    we'll see you next time. Thank
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    you for joining us. Bye bye.
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    Yes. Thanks for having me. Bye.
Title:
www.youtube.com/.../watch?v=V1d6US3QYcQ
Video Language:
English
Duration:
01:03:16

English subtitles

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