(8) The Zorro of Zen: Two Levels of Truth | by Thich Nhat Hanh, 2014 06 17 (Plum Village, France)

The other day we spoke about two kinds of
truth,

the conventional and the ultimate.

On the level of the conventional,

we see there is a beginning,
there is an end to everything.

There is birth, there is death,

there is being and nonbeing.

And we know that these notions are useful also.

We spoke about the date of birth,

birthday.

And without a beginning, a day of birth,

we cannot establish an identity card.

So birth and death is important.

Above and below is important.

Left and right is important.

They are useful on the level of the
conventional truth.

Politically, you have to know whether you are
on the right or on the left.

But there is another dimension of truth,

it's called the ultimate.

And scientists of our time, they are trying
to touch the ultimate.

Because when they go into the world of the
subatomic reality,

they have to abandon their notions and their ideas.

They learn to release the appearance,

the sign.

The particle is a sign,
the wave is also a sign.

And if a scientist is called in the sign of
particle or wave,

they cannot see the real nature of the electron.

On the conventional level,

a particle can only be a particle,

it cannot be a wave.

Because they have two different forms,

like the cloud and the tea.

They have different forms.

But looking deeply they are the same.

A particle can be at the same time a wave.

And if you cannot see it,

you have not been able to understand the nature of either

the wave or the particle.

A particle has a specific location in space.

But when you see it as a wave, that specific
place in space disappears.

And if you go deeply, one thing can be everywhere
at the same time.

The principle of non-locality.

So we are leaving the world of conventional
truth in order to go to a deeper level.

And our scientists have spent a lot of time
struggling in order to be able to release

their notions, their ideas, their sign in
order to be able to begin to understand

the world of… subatomic world.

There is the classical science
represented by Newton.

And there's a lot of truth in that science.

But that cannot explain everything.

That is why you have to go to modern science,
to quantum physics.

And quantum physics has stated many things
that contradict…that seem to contradict

the things stated by classical science.

So modern physics is something like the ultimate
truth.

And there is a difficulty in connecting the
two kinds of science,

the classical science and the modern science.

We recognize that there is truth in the
classical science,

and there is truth in the modern science.

But on the appearance, they contradict each
other.

And we need some kind of link in order to
connect the two.

But in the Buddhist tradition, that something
that can help us connect from one level of truth

to another level of truth is very clear.

And that kind of distinction, that kind of
connection, may be helpful for us to see

the true nature of birth and death.

This is the level of the conventional truth.

And we can see in it the notion of
beginning, ending,

birth and death,

being and nonbeing,

sameness and otherness.

There are pairs of opposites everywhere.

There is you and me, there are father and
son, and they are not each other.

They are distinct from each other.

Man is different from animals.

Animals are different from vegetals [plants].

Vegetals [plants] are different from minerals.

And there's a separation like that,

and things are outside of each other.

But when we observe closely,
we don't see it anymore.

We see that things are inside of each other.

Father is inside of the son,
son is inside of the father;

you cannot remove father from son.

So you go to the second level of truth.

It's called the ultimate truth.

And on this level there is no beginning,
there is no end.

There is no birth, there is no death.

And the notions of being and nonbeing

are removed.

And there is absolute freedom in that.

Here we see the extinction, the removal of
all notions and concepts.

And the two kinds of truth
seem to contradict each other.

But there is a link, a way, connecting

the conventional truth with the ultimate truth.

So we draw something like a "z" of Zorro.

[Thay
drawing on board, everyone laughing]

And it is this line, representing the practice of meditation,

that can lead us from the conventional truth
to the ultimate truth.

This [pointing to bottom line of the
"z"] represents the insight of emptiness.

Emptiness.

And we know that emptiness does not mean nothingness.

Look at this glass.

It's empty.

But...

The glass is empty,

but that does not mean
that the glass is not there, right?

So emptiness is quite different from nothingness.

And emptiness is always emptiness of something.

It is empty of tea, I agree.

But it is not empty of air.

It's full of air.

So to be empty means to be empty of something.

That is why when we hear the Bodhisattva Avalokita
say that everything is empty, we have to ask,

"Mr. Bodhisattva, you say that everything
is empty, but empty of what?"

And he will tell us that everything is empty
of a separate existence.

Like that flower.

The flower is full of the
cosmos.

When you look into a flower,
you see the whole cosmos in it--

time, space,

sunshine, Earth, consciousness

--everything in the cosmos has
to come together

in order to help a flower manifest as a wonder of life.

And the flower belongs to the Kingdom of God.

It is full of the cosmos, but it is empty
of a separate self.

Because if we remove all the non-flower elements,
there is no flower left.

So the nature of the flower is emptiness.

Emptiness means the fullness of everything,
but empty of a separate existence.

You cannot be by yourself alone.

You have to inter-be with all of us.

And that is the meaning of emptiness.

If we remove ancestors, father, mother, education,
food, tradition,

mother, education, food, tradition

there's no "us" left.

We are made of non-us elements.

It does not mean that we are not there.

We are [very] well there.

But we don't have a separate existence.

So that's why the word "to be"
can be misleading.

In fact, that is to inter-be.

To be is impossible.

To inter-be is the truth.

When you look at the son,

you see that the
son cannot be without the father.

The son has to inter-be with the father, with
the mother, with the grandfather, with the

grandmother, with everything else.

And that is emptiness.

So emptiness represents the ultimate truth.