< Return to Video

34C3 - Think big or care for yourself

  • 0:00 - 0:01
    *33C3 preroll music*
  • 0:01 - 0:22
    Karen: Thank you all for coming. We are
    about to start the next talk. Think big or
  • 0:22 - 0:26
    care for yourself on the obstacles to
    think of emergent technologies in the
  • 0:26 - 0:32
    field of nursing science. Our speakers are
    Hanna Wüller and Anne Koppenburger. They
  • 0:32 - 0:38
    both work on the use and development of
    technology in nursing. Hanna is examining
  • 0:38 - 0:43
    which parts of nursing should be supported
    by technological solutions. She does
  • 0:43 - 0:49
    research on augmented reality used in
    nursing. Anna works on feminist science
  • 0:49 - 0:55
    and technological studies, as well as
    critique of the political economy. She is
  • 0:55 - 1:02
    the editor of a book that just came out
    here in 2017: The Cybernetic Capitalism
  • 1:02 - 1:07
    Revolution - The Emancipatory Perspective
    in technological change. I hope you will
  • 1:07 - 1:15
    listen to their talk with great interest.
    There is translations into English and
  • 1:15 - 1:20
    German on the website that you can find on
    the site. Enjoy the talk.
  • 1:20 - 1:26
    *applause*
  • 1:26 - 1:31
    Thank you, Karen, for this nice
    introduction. Welcome to our talk: Think
  • 1:31 - 1:38
    big or care for yourself. On the obstacles
    to think of emerging technologies in the
  • 1:38 - 1:46
    field of nursing science. We're very proud
    to talk here on CCC. My name is Anne
  • 1:46 - 1:54
    Koppenburger. This is Hanna Wüller. Let me
    shortly say something about the
  • 1:54 - 2:01
    perspective that I will take in this talk.
    As I did in the book that was just showed,
  • 2:01 - 2:07
    I will do it again to give you time, maybe
    to write it down or something. I'm
  • 2:07 - 2:11
    interested in the understanding of
    technologies, especially in the
  • 2:11 - 2:17
    understandings of technological change. I
    am looking at how different societal
  • 2:17 - 2:23
    agents relate themself within this change.
    And in that book, we did it with some
  • 2:23 - 2:31
    different agents like DIY technology
    friendly initiatives, industrial players
  • 2:31 - 2:38
    or trade unions. Today, we want to talk
    about care and the relation to technology.
  • 2:38 - 2:48
    And we will do this in three steps. And I
    should say that it will take around 25
  • 2:48 - 2:55
    minutes, then we will have five minutes
    left. We would be happy to get one or two
  • 2:55 - 3:00
    questions from the audience. But however,
    for those of you who will not get the
  • 3:00 - 3:06
    possibility to talk to us or to contribute
    something to our talk, please feel free to
  • 3:06 - 3:12
    reproach us afterwards or to check out our
    university web pages and get in touch with
  • 3:12 - 3:19
    us. OK, the following 25 minutes we will
    talk about the relation of nursing,
  • 3:19 - 3:25
    science and technology in order to expose
    it as problematic. First, I would talk
  • 3:25 - 3:29
    about nursing science and what we actually
    talk about when we say nursing science,
  • 3:29 - 3:37
    and I will link this to the question of
    what we mean when we talk in nursing
  • 3:37 - 3:44
    science about technology. Afterwards,
    Hanna will introduce you in a current
  • 3:44 - 3:52
    research project on augmented reality. She
    will talk about what is going on right now
  • 3:52 - 4:04
    in this field of research. OK. I would
    start with the first part. I want to argue
  • 4:04 - 4:13
    that social struggles for making care work
    visible are a consequential requirement to
  • 4:13 - 4:18
    conceptualize the application of different
    technologies and nursing science. It's
  • 4:18 - 4:23
    like that: You cannot take it for granted
    to talk about care. It is thanks to the
  • 4:23 - 4:29
    extraordinary work of feminist political
    activists, artist, writers and theorists
  • 4:29 - 4:36
    that today we are in the situation to talk
    about care work as a structured and
  • 4:36 - 4:42
    structuring activity at all. I mean, to
    talk about care apart from it as being a
  • 4:42 - 4:49
    labor of love. It was embedded in the new
    left social movements in the 1960s and
  • 4:49 - 4:55
    some countries around the world that
    materialist feminist were struggling to
  • 4:55 - 5:02
    expose care work as a notable part of
    social reproduction. In these efforts, the
  • 5:02 - 5:09
    relation between productive labor and
    reproductive labor has been exposed as
  • 5:09 - 5:15
    interdependent, as dependent on each
    other. And this emancipatory struggles
  • 5:15 - 5:21
    have made care work visible by the
    naturalizing as care work has been
  • 5:21 - 5:26
    revealed as an essential precondition of a
    bourgeois society's capitalist production.
  • 5:27 - 5:33
    However, being visible, of course, is not
    the same as being recognized and still
  • 5:33 - 5:39
    today care work lags of societal
    appreciation. Those circumstances comes,
  • 5:39 - 5:45
    for example, with low wages and poor
    working conditions. Who wants to learn
  • 5:45 - 5:49
    more about the ongoing struggle is
    recommended to check out, for instance,
  • 5:49 - 5:54
    the work of Helen Hester. She's a member
    of the technology-friendly xeno-feminist
  • 5:54 - 6:00
    collective Laboria Cuboniks. She's an
    associate professor for media and
  • 6:00 - 6:04
    communication at the University of West
    London, and she emphasizes on the task to
  • 6:04 - 6:11
    continue the discussion of making care
    work visible. Visible as a part - as a
  • 6:11 - 6:17
    notable part - of social reproduction, she
    proposes to rethink living arrangements,
  • 6:17 - 6:25
    living standards and the role of domestic
    technology. Therefore, she opens up a
  • 6:25 - 6:31
    discussion on automatisation of certain
    aspects of health care. Despite a lot of
  • 6:31 - 6:37
    controversies around this, she says the
    opening to automatisation is a refusal to
  • 6:37 - 6:45
    naturalize this work. OK, back to nursing
    science. Yeah, we can see how these
  • 6:47 - 6:51
    social, political, economic movements that
    I just have mentioned, those emancipatory
  • 6:51 - 6:57
    struggles, they obviously affect the
    theoretical horizon of nursing science,
  • 6:57 - 7:01
    which in turn influences the
    conceptualization of technology and care
  • 7:01 - 7:07
    work settings. Speaking for a German
    context of nursing science, contemporary
  • 7:07 - 7:11
    nursing scientists, they are still
    overwhelmingly busy with the
  • 7:11 - 7:17
    professionalization of health care. They
    are partly still engaged in establishing
  • 7:17 - 7:22
    nursing science as a scientific discipline
    that describes and develops reasonable
  • 7:22 - 7:26
    caring practice on the basis of
    independent nursing research.
  • 7:28 - 7:33
    Distinguishing nursing science as
    independent from medicine is seen as a
  • 7:33 - 7:38
    cornerstone in these struggles. Medicine
    as a life science discipline is probably
  • 7:38 - 7:43
    rightly accused of being pervaded by
    strongly functionalist, partly mechanic,
  • 7:43 - 7:56
    partly cybernetic paradigm. This formal
    and mathematical paradigm might be seen as
  • 7:56 - 8:02
    a reflexive background against which this
    young and ambitious discipline has
  • 8:02 - 8:08
    constituted itself, at least in the German
    context. Oh, sorry. By drawing on critical
  • 8:08 - 8:19
    theories, nursing scientists rejected a
    purely medical approach to bodily
  • 8:19 - 8:24
    processes, which often those medical
    approaches, they often comes in
  • 8:24 - 8:29
    explanatory modes of, for example,
    quantifying rationalizing technologizing.
  • 8:29 - 8:35
    Nursing practice, in contrast, is supposed
    to approach human beings' experiences of
  • 8:35 - 8:40
    health and sickness and modes of
    comprehension of a fully understanding,
  • 8:40 - 8:46
    for example, by phenomenologically
    reconstructing individual meaning and
  • 8:46 - 8:52
    collective sense structures. So in
    comparison, medicine and nursing, medicine
  • 8:52 - 8:58
    prefers to explain diseases by formalize
    events, a formalized thinking, a linear
  • 8:58 - 9:04
    thinking. Whereas nursing science is
    supposed to comprehend being healthy or
  • 9:04 - 9:11
    being sick by mimetic faculty, by, I say,
    simply and playing, by feel it. That is
  • 9:11 - 9:17
    why nursing sciences draw on highly
    controversial constructs like intuition or
  • 9:17 - 9:24
    implicit knowledge. Here, we still witness
    the movement of making visible what was
  • 9:24 - 9:29
    made invisible before socially,
    politically, theoretically. Exactly at
  • 9:29 - 9:33
    this point, we find a particular strong
    rejection of different technologies and
  • 9:33 - 9:38
    care work by nursing scientists. Since
    technology, especially information
  • 9:38 - 9:42
    technology, are conceived as means of
    explanation, these technologies are
  • 9:42 - 9:47
    identified with the formalistic paradigm
    that supposedly cannot comprehend the
  • 9:47 - 9:52
    implicit part of human beings' experience.
    Here, the different struggles that I have
  • 9:52 - 9:59
    mentioned meet each other. They both are
    targeting at onto-epistemological regimes
  • 9:59 - 10:06
    of capitalizing, rationalizing
    technologizing. They kind of attack on
  • 10:06 - 10:14
    this processes just in order, which is an
    important work also to include the
  • 10:14 - 10:21
    excluded, to qualify the quantified, and
    also to de-technologize the technologized.
  • 10:21 - 10:27
    So just to sum up this first part, it is
    important to keep in mind that both the
  • 10:27 - 10:30
    histories of feminists efforts to make
    care work visible and the academic
  • 10:30 - 10:36
    struggle of establishing nursing science
    as a scientific discipline, they are both
  • 10:36 - 10:41
    interlinked. They go parallel in their
    ambition to emancipate themselves from
  • 10:41 - 10:46
    formalizing, thinking and acting. They
    also share basic parts of their
  • 10:46 - 10:53
    theoretical foundation. As a result, an
    always mysteriously indetermined part of
  • 10:53 - 10:59
    the human being's existence is supposed to
    be a crucial counterpoint of technological
  • 10:59 - 11:00
    formations.
    *mumbles*
  • 11:00 - 11:08
    But the question, of course, is what are
  • 11:08 - 11:14
    those or these technological formations
    and how to situate nursing practices
  • 11:14 - 11:21
    within them. So for this, let me tell you
    what technology means when we as a nursing
  • 11:21 - 11:27
    science talk about it. So technology -
    What do we talk about it? I already said
  • 11:27 - 11:32
    that the human being is depicted in
    different critical theories as the
  • 11:32 - 11:37
    counterpart of technology. It is this
    image, actually, what right now seems to
  • 11:37 - 11:43
    be increasingly challenged. For example,
    when we think of technological operations
  • 11:43 - 11:49
    on micro-temporal levels as sensor
    technologies too, we are confronted with
  • 11:49 - 11:54
    an entity that act beyond human beings'
    sensational perception. When we first
  • 11:54 - 11:59
    think of technology's power to control us,
    meaning the regulating sense of control,
  • 11:59 - 12:04
    then we cannot but conclude that it's not
    just a human being's action that makes
  • 12:04 - 12:09
    sense to us. The existence and operations
    of contemporary smart objects are
  • 12:09 - 12:15
    increasingly unraveling the image of the
    human as an exceptional sense maker. This
  • 12:15 - 12:21
    is the technological condition that for
    some decades now challenges particularly
  • 12:21 - 12:27
    the humanities to come to grasp with. And
    it was Erich Hörl who described this
  • 12:27 - 12:32
    ongoing basically technologically
    influenced displacement of sense as a
  • 12:32 - 12:37
    representational sense. He - Erich Hörl -
    is a professor of media philosophy at
  • 12:37 - 12:42
    Lüneburg Leuphana university in Germany.
    He has claimed that after an organic and
  • 12:42 - 12:49
    after a mechanical state of nature, we
    were entering a cybernetic state of nature
  • 12:49 - 12:57
    by the end of the 18th century. As a
    heuristic, the cybernetic state of nature
  • 12:57 - 13:04
    finally describes an era where objects in
    different disciplines - academic
  • 13:04 - 13:09
    disciplines - and theories are
    increasingly exposed as active,
  • 13:09 - 13:16
    intelligent and communicating. A growing
    object-orientation proves the
  • 13:16 - 13:24
    environmentalization of agency, as well as
    even environmentalized ways of being. As a
  • 13:24 - 13:32
    reminder, I should shortly say that
    against this - this environmentalization
  • 13:32 - 13:38
    of agency with those objects in our
    environment are just an example of this
  • 13:38 - 13:43
    environmentalization - against this
    background, the hermeneutic tradition of
  • 13:43 - 13:49
    critical theories that I mentioned - for
    them, objects are merely conceived as
  • 13:49 - 13:54
    means which the human subject
    intentionally uses to transform its
  • 13:54 - 14:00
    reality. That means in those critical
    theories, human beings' tool use is
  • 14:00 - 14:07
    conceptualized as a mean that serves
    certain ends. Of course, only the humans
  • 14:07 - 14:15
    set up those ends. Tools are used in order
    to supplement and to cope with the
  • 14:15 - 14:21
    indigence and neediness of human beings.
    It is in this way that technological
  • 14:21 - 14:28
    artifacts are always conceived as the
    other side, the outside of the human. So,
  • 14:28 - 14:33
    and exactly from this point - I will come
    to my end, to the end - and from exactly
  • 14:33 - 14:39
    this point, we propose to rethink the role
    of technology in health care and nursing
  • 14:39 - 14:45
    science via a challenge to enlarge our
    methodological horizon, new forms and
  • 14:45 - 14:50
    modes of interactions, which I just
    somehow point up as those
  • 14:50 - 14:55
    environmentalizations, so new forms and
    modes and this environmentalizations,
  • 14:55 - 14:59
    modes of interaction has to be
    conceptualized. We might see
  • 14:59 - 15:04
    technologically mediated relations between
    a patient and a nurse, which allows also
  • 15:04 - 15:09
    for wellbeing, as, for example, Jeannette
    Pols has put it in her book Care at a
  • 15:09 - 15:15
    Distance from 2012. It would be ignorant
    to think that phenomenons like, for
  • 15:15 - 15:20
    instance, ubiquitous computing leave
    already established relations untouched.
  • 15:20 - 15:25
    Additionally, taking relational operations
    of technological artifacts and human
  • 15:25 - 15:33
    entities not into account would be somehow
    shortsighted and also anthropocentric. The
  • 15:33 - 15:39
    new ecological paradigm, a term that also
    Erich Hörl has coined, seems for us to be
  • 15:39 - 15:44
    necessarily entered also by nudging
    science in order to conceptualize health
  • 15:44 - 15:48
    care as taking place in social
    technological environments, not at least
  • 15:48 - 15:53
    to find a place from where also a capital
    valuarization of health care and
  • 15:53 - 15:58
    everything might be rejected, a place
    where technological systems might be
  • 15:58 - 16:03
    conversed and used in an emancipatory and
    self-determined way. So here I'd like to
  • 16:03 - 16:10
    finish and ask Hanna to show us how
    contemporary ecologies of care would look
  • 16:10 - 16:13
    like.
    Hanna: Now we get to the second part of
  • 16:13 - 16:18
    the presentation, which is quite different
    from the first one because the first one
  • 16:18 - 16:24
    was how we could think about technology
    and what's going on in nursing science.
  • 16:24 - 16:32
    And when I came to Osnabrück University, I
    experienced that - oh, technology, you
  • 16:32 - 16:38
    should be careful. And before this, I
    studied business computer science, and I
  • 16:38 - 16:44
    was just not used to the thinking. So it
    strikes me a lot. And now I'm working in a
  • 16:44 - 16:52
    research project where these both sides
    are struggling all the time. So it's like,
  • 16:52 - 17:00
    be careful and try to think about how to
    conceptualize technology and how this can
  • 17:00 - 17:06
    change nursing and the daily work of
    nurses, and at the same time, it's like
  • 17:06 - 17:12
    you have this research project and you
    have kind of the goal of creating
  • 17:12 - 17:18
    prototypes and evaluating them, and doing
    practical research, empirical research,
  • 17:18 - 17:23
    and bringing the technology into the
    practice and look how it's going to work.
  • 17:24 - 17:30
    So kind of the argumentation to do this is
    the demographical change. People claim
  • 17:30 - 17:37
    that this change - people are getting
    older and there will be not enough carers
  • 17:37 - 17:45
    - that could be solved by a technological
    solution. Just yesterday, in the talk
  • 17:45 - 17:50
    about China's social credit system, we
    also heard just technological solutions
  • 17:50 - 17:55
    for social problems that may be not the
    best solution, not the best way to do it.
  • 17:56 - 18:05
    But we still do take a look at how could
    augmented reality in nursing look like. An
  • 18:05 - 18:10
    augmented reality, I think the most of you
    may know, it's like displaying virtual
  • 18:10 - 18:17
    objects into the reality - this is one of
    the marketing pictures. They promise you a
  • 18:17 - 18:22
    lot of things are possible and augmented
    reality can be really useful in a lot of
  • 18:22 - 18:27
    fields, you can community communicate with
    your colleague, you are in a different
  • 18:27 - 18:35
    room and still work on the same virtual
    artifacts. But we have the question - what
  • 18:35 - 18:45
    can be into that for nursing? So we took
    some workshops with nurses and nursing
  • 18:45 - 18:53
    managers, and we came up with a lot of use
    cases and currently we are examining two
  • 18:53 - 19:03
    prototypes. One is on wound care
    management. We have this with different
  • 19:03 - 19:11
    devices as well. We are trying -
    evaluating a prototype on the Vuzix M100
  • 19:11 - 19:16
    and a prototype on the Microsoft HoloLens.
    And they both have in common that they
  • 19:16 - 19:23
    should support the nurse and doing the
    documentation for the wound. So the nurse
  • 19:23 - 19:29
    can do the documentation while caring for
    the patient. That means the interaction
  • 19:29 - 19:34
    between the nurse and the patient may
    change here, but it could be possible to
  • 19:34 - 19:41
    save some time. And it also could enhance
    the quality of the documentation because
  • 19:41 - 19:47
    the documentation is being done by the
    time the nurse is there and has to see the
  • 19:47 - 19:54
    wound. This is what both prototypes have
    in common. The HoloLens prototype allows
  • 19:54 - 20:01
    to support the measuring of the wound as
    well. With the Vuzix prototype, you have
  • 20:01 - 20:08
    to measure the length and the width of the
    wound on your own, and then you can use
  • 20:08 - 20:13
    voice commands to put it into the
    documentation. With the HoloLens
  • 20:13 - 20:19
    prototype, this is what you see right here
    when you look through the glass, you get
  • 20:19 - 20:26
    this image and you can make a point on the
    edge of the wound and a point on the upper
  • 20:26 - 20:32
    side edge, and the measurement is done
    automatically. So the number you see is
  • 20:32 - 20:39
    the measured number, and the blue dots are
    the edges of the wound. Actually, this
  • 20:39 - 20:45
    prototype cannot detect the edges of the
    wound automatically, but this could be
  • 20:45 - 20:51
    under further consideration. And the
    second prototype we are actually
  • 20:51 - 21:02
    evaluating is on drug management. So I
    will show you a short video (if it's going
  • 21:02 - 21:11
    to work). Yeah,here you can see 10
    dispensers, so dispensers for medication
  • 21:11 - 21:20
    for 10 patients at the same time. It's
    like for morning, midday, noon and
  • 21:20 - 21:28
    evening, or evening and night, I'm sorry.
    And you can put the pill into the right
  • 21:28 - 21:38
    box by the app showing you how to do it.
    If you can see here on the smartphone, the
  • 21:38 - 21:45
    app shows you how many pills you have to
    put into one box and you have to scan the
  • 21:45 - 21:51
    medication first, and if you scan the
    wrong one, you get this sign that it's the
  • 21:51 - 21:59
    wrong one. So you have some way of error
    prevention integrated as well. For this
  • 21:59 - 22:05
    prototype, you could also think of a lot
    of attention, like it could get the
  • 22:05 - 22:10
    information which medication has to be
    taken automatically, or it could detect if
  • 22:10 - 22:17
    the pill is taken into the right box. But
    this is actually not what we have right
  • 22:17 - 22:27
    now. Yeah. So it looks a bit less fancy
    than the picture from the advertisements,
  • 22:27 - 22:33
    but maybe it can save nurses some time and
    maybe it can do some error correctness.
  • 22:33 - 22:41
    And for these prototypes and some more
    which are currently evaluated by other
  • 22:41 - 22:46
    researchers or which have been evaluated,
    there are still a lot of challenges like
  • 22:46 - 22:53
    technical challenges and the challenge how
    to deal with the small display size and
  • 22:53 - 23:03
    short battery life, for sure. And it can
    be easy to focus in these details and
  • 23:03 - 23:10
    forget the big picture, forget what - how
    can we think technology? How can we think
  • 23:12 - 23:19
    the interaction of the technology and the
    humans? And what will this do with us? So
  • 23:19 - 23:28
    this is part of what the research funding
    policy could lead us to do. I still think
  • 23:28 - 23:33
    it's very interesting and maybe there will
    be some good things to do with this
  • 23:33 - 23:39
    technology, and this technology can enable
    us to change the structure of care work.
  • 23:41 - 23:49
    But it cannot be. We shouldn't forget
    everything else. So that's like our
  • 23:49 - 23:55
    conclusion. We identified basically two
    obstacles to think about emergent
  • 23:55 - 24:00
    technology in the field of nursing science
    right now. One is the way to think about
  • 24:00 - 24:10
    technology these days. This is what Hanna
    explained. We had to struggle in nursing
  • 24:10 - 24:17
    science to establish this discipline, and
    there had to be good arguments and the
  • 24:17 - 24:22
    struggle is still going on. So a lot of
    nursing science are still busy defending
  • 24:22 - 24:29
    with nursing from medicine. And sometimes
    this is kind of projected on defending
  • 24:29 - 24:34
    nursing from technology because technology
    is also perceived to be naturalistic,
  • 24:34 - 24:43
    binary, and doesn't feel the differences
    in the touch or doesn't get all the small
  • 24:43 - 24:50
    things. And yeah, the second thing is the
    research funding policy, which should lead
  • 24:50 - 24:58
    you to develop technological solutions,
    but in the best, you know, the solution
  • 24:58 - 25:09
    before you really had the question,
    because this is how you try to - how you
  • 25:09 - 25:15
    argument that you need some money to do
    something for this, you know, you know,
  • 25:15 - 25:22
    which solution you want to have. So thank
    you for your attention.
  • 25:32 - 25:43
    *applause*
  • 25:43 - 25:46
    Herald: We have about 5 Minutes for Q&As,
    so there are microphones *unintelligible*
  • 25:46 - 25:46
    microphones, we'll take some questions
    from listeners as well, *unintelligible*
  • 25:46 - 25:46
    and the signal angel is 'Naughty'. We'll
    take questions from microphone number 4
  • 25:46 - 25:47
    and then the signal angel.
    Audience member: Thank you for your
  • 25:47 - 25:58
    presentation. If I get this right, you
    said that there is a big research gap of
  • 25:58 - 26:05
    how new technologies influence the
    relationships between caretakers and the
  • 26:05 - 26:12
    persons who are being taken care of, who
    need help. And is there some research
  • 26:12 - 26:20
    going on about this? Like what effects
    have you - caretaking technology
  • 26:20 - 26:25
    introduced into nursing, yeah, on the
    human side?
  • 26:25 - 26:31
    Anne: Should I answer to this? Yeah, I
    will answer to this question. Thank you
  • 26:31 - 26:42
    for this. I mentioned in the last part a
    Dutch anthropologist who was also working
  • 26:42 - 26:49
    in the field of nursing science. It was
    Jeanette Pols. Her research on Telecare
  • 26:50 - 26:57
    might be that what you're looking for. She
    is - to continue the work, which was
  • 26:57 - 27:07
    started by Annemarie Mol, which is also
    quite important name in this field, and I
  • 27:07 - 27:13
    recommend you to check this out because
    her research, for example, is one of Janet
  • 27:13 - 27:20
    Pol reports. It's just, it's kind of new,
    and in the German context of nursing
  • 27:20 - 27:26
    science, it is not really recognized,
    especially not in this hermeneutical
  • 27:26 - 27:34
    tradition of nursing science that we refer
    to that we also work with. But as far as I
  • 27:34 - 27:44
    can tell from her research, there is the
    idea of new modes of interaction and that
  • 27:44 - 27:51
    the well-being, for example, of
    oncological patients that are cared at a
  • 27:51 - 27:58
    distance by a telecare technology or by
    certain interactive technologies, that
  • 27:58 - 28:04
    those well-being is always a question of
    how you measure well-being. I know, and
  • 28:04 - 28:10
    she also knows this problem. But her first
    research results, which are presented in
  • 28:10 - 28:17
    that book, are not showing anything what
    we could - what should make us step back
  • 28:17 - 28:24
    from this. So it more or less affirms that
    the well-being is like secured also by
  • 28:24 - 28:31
    this care at a distance. Is that an answer
    to your question?
  • 28:31 - 28:36
    Audience member: Yeah, kind of. I cannot
    ask another question, so thank you.
  • 28:36 - 28:39
    Herald: We'll take the question from the
    signal angel from the internet.
  • 28:39 - 28:44
    Signal Angel: Hi. OK, so which parts of
    nursing do you think will change first and
  • 28:44 - 28:47
    how do you think elder people will adapt
    to that?
  • 28:47 - 28:52
    Herald: And would it be OK to take two
    questions at a time, because we have three
  • 28:52 - 28:55
    more questions left?
    *people talking over each other*
  • 28:55 - 29:01
    Herald: Microphone number one.
    Audience meber: Uh, hello. Thank you for
  • 29:01 - 29:08
    your talk. I'm a nurse and I see the
    problem - I think technology is very
  • 29:08 - 29:12
    important in nursing, but I see the
    problem in the network between the nurses.
  • 29:12 - 29:17
    When you make the research of politics,
    it's very difficult to reach the nurses to
  • 29:17 - 29:23
    get a voice from them. Have you ideas also
    to find a solution for this?
  • 29:23 - 29:26
    Anne: Should I answer? Shall I answer
    this? Thank you for this really, really
  • 29:26 - 29:37
    important question because that is kind of
    a basic problem that we see in that field
  • 29:37 - 29:46
    of nursing science that is somehow even
    kind of divided - we have nursing science
  • 29:46 - 29:53
    and we have nursing practice, even though
    our association is based on both. But the
  • 29:53 - 30:01
    degree of organization and caring practice
    is extremely low, which makes it really
  • 30:01 - 30:10
    hard to reach them - to reach out to them.
    As you said, we can see in the Lower
  • 30:10 - 30:18
    Saxony, for example, a newly established
    Pflegekammer come out, which is an
  • 30:18 - 30:26
    organization form which is kind of step
    forward, but it's also like controversial
  • 30:26 - 30:34
    because of this centralistic structure. I
    guess there's a lot of work to be done,
  • 30:34 - 30:40
    organizing work, and we can learn, for
    example, from examples from Switzerland.
  • 30:40 - 30:47
    They are kind of better organized.
    Yeah, you're right with that hint that
  • 30:47 - 30:59
    this should happen on the same time, this
    question of organization to be really in
  • 30:59 - 31:07
    the position to have a - to take a
    critical stance on technology and also to
  • 31:07 - 31:12
    develop a self-determined way in order to
    say we want to use it like this and not
  • 31:12 - 31:18
    like in another way, in a, like, in a
    formalizing way only. So it just has to be
  • 31:18 - 31:23
    done. Organization of care workers. Thank
    you. Thank you.
  • 31:23 - 31:28
    Herald: We were basically out of time. So
    do you have like two second replies to the
  • 31:28 - 31:33
    internet question as well?
    Hanna: Yes. I think it's really difficult
  • 31:33 - 31:41
    to answer how part of nursing is changing
    first. There's a lot of change going on in
  • 31:41 - 31:49
    doing the documentation, like on computers
    and not on paper. And there's a lot of
  • 31:49 - 31:56
    change. And what else is going on will -
    may happen on financial structures as
  • 31:56 - 31:58
    well.
    Herald: Excellent. Thank you very much for
  • 31:58 - 32:01
    both the presentation and the questions.
    For the two questions that weren't able to
  • 32:01 - 32:05
    be asked over the microphones, I'm sure
    you can find Hannah and Anna just next to
  • 32:05 - 32:08
    the stage after the talk. Thank you very
    much.
  • 32:08 - 32:34
    Hanna: Thank you.
  • 32:34 - 32:37
    *postroll music*
Title:
34C3 - Think big or care for yourself
Description:

more » « less
Video Language:
English
Duration:
32:33

English subtitles

Incomplete

Revisions Compare revisions