Return to Video

Grooming, virtual abuse? | Sebastián Bortnik | TEDxRíodelaPlata

  • 0:14 - 0:17
    This is Nina Rodriguez' Facebook profile.
  • 0:19 - 0:21
    This person had three different profiles
  • 0:21 - 0:26
    and 890 kids between 9 and 13 years old
    on their list of friends.
  • 0:29 - 0:33
    These are parts of a chat
    with one of those kids.
  • 0:35 - 0:38
    This is an exact copy of the chat
  • 0:38 - 0:41
    and it's part of the case file.
  • 0:43 - 0:46
    This kid started sending private photos
  • 0:46 - 0:48
    until his family noticed it.
  • 0:50 - 0:54
    The police report and
    investigation lead to a house.
  • 0:55 - 0:58
    This was the girl's bedroom.
  • 1:00 - 1:05
    Nina Rodriguez was actually
    a 24-year-old man,
  • 1:05 - 1:08
    that used to do this with lots of kids.
  • 1:11 - 1:13
    Micaela Ortega was 12
  • 1:15 - 1:17
    when she went to meet her
    new Facebook girl friend
  • 1:17 - 1:19
    of her same age.
  • 1:20 - 1:22
    "Rochi de River," was her name.
  • 1:24 - 1:28
    She actually met Jonathan Luna,
    who was 26 years old,
  • 1:28 - 1:30
    who, when he was finally caught,
  • 1:30 - 1:34
    confessed that he killed her because
    the girl didn't want to have sex with him.
  • 1:37 - 1:39
    He had four Facebook profiles
  • 1:40 - 1:43
    and 1,700 women on his contact list.
  • 1:45 - 1:48
    90 percent of them
    were less than 13 years old.
  • 1:50 - 1:53
    These are two different cases of grooming:
  • 1:54 - 1:57
    an adult contacts a kid
    through the Internet,
  • 1:58 - 2:00
    and by manipulating or lying
  • 2:00 - 2:02
    leads that kid to sexual fields.
  • 2:02 - 2:04
    From talking about sex
  • 2:04 - 2:07
    to sharing private photos,
  • 2:07 - 2:09
    recording the kid using a webcam
  • 2:09 - 2:11
    or arranging a meeting.
  • 2:12 - 2:14
    This is grooming.
  • 2:14 - 2:17
    This is happening and it's on the rise.
  • 2:20 - 2:22
    The question is, "What will we do?"
  • 2:22 - 2:25
    because, in the meantime, kids are alone.
  • 2:27 - 2:29
    They finish dinner, go to their rooms,
  • 2:29 - 2:30
    close the door,
  • 2:31 - 2:33
    take their computer, their cell phones
  • 2:33 - 2:35
    and get into a bar,
  • 2:37 - 2:38
    into a club.
  • 2:40 - 2:43
    Think for one second about
    what I've just said;
  • 2:44 - 2:47
    they are in a place full of strangers
  • 2:47 - 2:50
    in a uninhibited environment.
  • 2:52 - 2:54
    Internet broke physical boundaries.
  • 2:54 - 2:57
    When we are alone in our bedroom,
  • 2:57 - 2:58
    and we go online,
  • 2:58 - 3:00
    we're not really alone.
  • 3:03 - 3:08
    There are two reasons why
    we are not taking care of this
  • 3:08 - 3:10
    or at least not in the right way.
  • 3:11 - 3:16
    Firstly, we're sure that everything
    that happens online is "virtual."
  • 3:16 - 3:19
    In fact, we call it "the virtual world"!
  • 3:21 - 3:23
    If you look it up,
  • 3:24 - 3:27
    something virtual is
    something that is not real
  • 3:29 - 3:32
    and we use that word
    to talk about the Internet;
  • 3:33 - 3:34
    something not real.
  • 3:37 - 3:39
    And that's the problem with grooming.
  • 3:39 - 3:40
    It is real.
  • 3:42 - 3:47
    Adults, perverts, use the Internet
    to abuse boys and girls
  • 3:47 - 3:51
    and take advantage of the fact
    that the kids and their parents
  • 3:51 - 3:55
    think that what happens there
    actually doesn't happen.
  • 3:57 - 4:03
    Some years ago, we founded a NGO,
    "Argentina Cibersegura"
  • 4:03 - 4:07
    that works on bringing awareness
    about online safety.
  • 4:09 - 4:12
    On 2013, we attended meetings
  • 4:12 - 4:13
    at the Chamber of Deputies
  • 4:13 - 4:15
    to discuss a law about grooming.
  • 4:18 - 4:20
    I remember that most people thought
  • 4:20 - 4:22
    that grooming was just the previous step
  • 4:22 - 4:26
    to arrange a meeting with
    the kids and have sex with them.
  • 4:28 - 4:31
    But they didn't think about
    what happened with kids
  • 4:31 - 4:35
    that were exposed to talk about sex
    with an adult, without knowing it,
  • 4:36 - 4:40
    sharing private photos thinking
    only another kid will see them
  • 4:40 - 4:41
    or even worse,
  • 4:42 - 4:44
    exposing themselves
    using their web cam.
  • 4:45 - 4:47
    Nobody saw this as raping.
  • 4:49 - 4:54
    I'm sure lots of you find it weird to
    think that one person can abuse another
  • 4:54 - 4:55
    without physical contact.
  • 4:56 - 4:58
    Our mindset is built this way.
  • 4:59 - 5:01
    I know, because I used to think the same.
  • 5:01 - 5:04
    I was just an information technician
  • 5:05 - 5:07
    until this happened to me.
  • 5:09 - 5:11
    By the end of 2011,
  • 5:12 - 5:15
    in a little town in Buenos Aires,
  • 5:15 - 5:17
    I heard about a case for the first time.
  • 5:19 - 5:20
    After giving a talk,
  • 5:21 - 5:26
    I met the parents of an 11-year-old girl
    who had suffered grooming.
  • 5:28 - 5:30
    An adult had manipulated her
  • 5:30 - 5:32
    into masturbate in front of her web cam
  • 5:32 - 5:34
    and had recorded her.
  • 5:34 - 5:37
    And the video was on several websites.
  • 5:39 - 5:41
    That day, her parents asked us, in tears,
  • 5:41 - 5:43
    to tell them
  • 5:43 - 5:45
    how to delete those videos
    from the Internet.
  • 5:48 - 5:50
    That broke my heart,
  • 5:50 - 5:52
    and changed me forever,
  • 5:52 - 5:55
    being their last disappointment,
    telling them it was too late.
  • 5:55 - 5:58
    Once content is online,
  • 5:58 - 6:00
    we've already lost control.
  • 6:03 - 6:06
    Since that day, I think about that girl
  • 6:07 - 6:10
    waking up in the morning,
    having breakfast with her family,
  • 6:11 - 6:12
    which had seen the video,
  • 6:13 - 6:16
    and then walking to school, meeting people
  • 6:16 - 6:18
    that had seen her naked,
  • 6:18 - 6:23
    arriving to school, playing with
    her friends, who had also seen her.
  • 6:24 - 6:26
    That was her life.
  • 6:27 - 6:29
    Exposed.
  • 6:32 - 6:34
    Of course, nobody raped her body,
  • 6:35 - 6:39
    but hasn't her sexuality been abused?
  • 6:41 - 6:45
    We clearly use different standards
    to measure physical and digital things.
  • 6:47 - 6:49
    And we get angry at social networks
  • 6:49 - 6:51
    because being angry with ourselves
  • 6:51 - 6:53
    is more painful and more sincere.
  • 6:55 - 6:59
    And this takes us to another reason why
    we don't take good care of this topic.
  • 7:00 - 7:02
    We believe kids
  • 7:02 - 7:05
    don't need our help,
  • 7:05 - 7:07
    that they "know everything"
    about technology.
  • 7:10 - 7:11
    When I was a kid,
  • 7:12 - 7:15
    my parents at some point started
    letting me walk to school alone.
  • 7:17 - 7:21
    After walking with them
    for many years,
  • 7:22 - 7:24
    one day they talked to me,
  • 7:24 - 7:26
    gave me the house keys
  • 7:26 - 7:30
    and told me: "Be very careful with them,
    don't give them to anyone,
  • 7:30 - 7:34
    take the road we showed you,
    be at home at the time we said,
  • 7:34 - 7:37
    cross the street at the corners
    and look both ways before you cross,
  • 7:37 - 7:42
    and, no matter what,
    don't talk to strangers."
  • 7:43 - 7:45
    I knew everything about walking,
  • 7:45 - 7:48
    however, there was a responsible adult
  • 7:48 - 7:50
    taking care of me.
  • 7:51 - 7:54
    Knowing how to do something
    is not the same
  • 7:54 - 7:55
    as doing it safely.
  • 7:57 - 7:58
    Imagine this situation:
  • 7:58 - 8:01
    I'm 10 or 11 years old,
    I wake up in the morning,
  • 8:01 - 8:03
    my parents give me the keys and say:
  • 8:03 - 8:05
    "Seba, now you can walk to school alone."
  • 8:06 - 8:08
    And when I come back late,
  • 8:09 - 8:13
    they say, "You should arrive
    at the time we said."
  • 8:15 - 8:17
    And two weeks later,
  • 8:17 - 8:20
    they say, by the way, "You know what?
  • 8:20 - 8:22
    You have to cross at the corners
  • 8:22 - 8:24
    and look both ways before crossing."
  • 8:25 - 8:26
    And two years later:
  • 8:27 - 8:31
    "And also, don't talk to strangers."
  • 8:33 - 8:34
    It sounds absurd, right?
  • 8:36 - 8:39
    We have the same absurd behavior
    in relation to technology.
  • 8:40 - 8:43
    We give kids total access
    and we see if one day,
  • 8:43 - 8:45
    sooner or later,
  • 8:45 - 8:48
    they learn how to take care of themselves.
  • 8:49 - 8:51
    Doing something is not the same
  • 8:51 - 8:53
    as doing it safely.
  • 8:54 - 8:57
    When we talk to parents,
  • 8:57 - 8:59
    they often say
  • 8:59 - 9:03
    that they don't care about
    technology and social networks.
  • 9:04 - 9:07
    I always ask them if they
    care about their kids.
  • 9:08 - 9:10
    As adults, getting in touch or not
    with technology,
  • 9:10 - 9:13
    means getting in touch or not
    with the kids.
  • 9:13 - 9:15
    Internet is part of their lives.
  • 9:16 - 9:22
    Technology makes us rethink the
    relationship between adults and kids.
  • 9:23 - 9:26
    Education was always based
    on two main concepts:
  • 9:26 - 9:29
    experience and knowledge.
  • 9:30 - 9:35
    How can we teach to be safe online
  • 9:35 - 9:37
    when we don't have either?
  • 9:38 - 9:41
    Today, as adults, we have to guide kids
  • 9:41 - 9:43
    on fields that sometimes we don't know,
  • 9:43 - 9:46
    and that are more friendly to them.
  • 9:47 - 9:50
    It's impossible to find an answer
  • 9:50 - 9:53
    without doing new and
    uncomfortable things,
  • 9:53 - 9:55
    things we're not used to.
  • 9:57 - 10:00
    A lot of you may think it's easy for me,
  • 10:00 - 10:02
    because I'm quite young,
  • 10:03 - 10:04
    and it used to be like this.
  • 10:05 - 10:06
    It used to.
  • 10:08 - 10:09
    Until last year,
  • 10:10 - 10:14
    when I felt the weight
    of my age on my shoulders
  • 10:15 - 10:20
    the first time I opened Snapchat.
  • 10:20 - 10:22
    (Laughter)
  • 10:23 - 10:25
    (Applause)
  • 10:29 - 10:32
    I didn't understand a thing!
  • 10:33 - 10:35
    I found it unnecessary,
  • 10:36 - 10:39
    useless, hard to understand;
  • 10:39 - 10:40
    it looked like a camera!
  • 10:41 - 10:42
    It didn't have a menu!
  • 10:44 - 10:48
    It was the first time I felt
    the gap that sometimes exists
  • 10:48 - 10:50
    between kids and adults.
  • 10:51 - 10:54
    But it was also an opportunity
    to do the right thing
  • 10:55 - 10:57
    and get out of my comfort zone.
  • 10:59 - 11:02
    I felt I would never use Snapchat,
  • 11:02 - 11:05
    but then I asked my teenage cousin,
  • 11:05 - 11:07
    to show me how she used it.
  • 11:08 - 11:10
    And also why she used it.
  • 11:11 - 11:12
    What was fun about it?
  • 11:13 - 11:15
    We had a really nice talk,
  • 11:16 - 11:18
    she showed me her Snapchat
    and talked about things,
  • 11:18 - 11:21
    we got closer, we laughed.
  • 11:22 - 11:24
    Today, I use it.
  • 11:25 - 11:26
    (Laughter)
  • 11:27 - 11:28
    I don't know if I do it right --
  • 11:28 - 11:33
    but the most important thing is
    that I know it and I understand it.
  • 11:34 - 11:38
    The key was to overcome
    the first impression,
  • 11:38 - 11:40
    and do something new;
  • 11:42 - 11:43
    something new.
  • 11:43 - 11:46
    Today, we have the chance
    to create new conversations.
  • 11:47 - 11:49
    Which is the last app you downloaded?
  • 11:49 - 11:52
    Which social network do you use
    to contact your friends?
  • 11:53 - 11:55
    Which kind of information do you share?
  • 11:56 - 11:59
    Were you approached by any stranger?
  • 12:01 - 12:04
    Could we have these talks
    between kids and adults?
  • 12:05 - 12:07
    We have to make ourselves do it.
  • 12:08 - 12:13
    Today, lots of kids are listening to us.
  • 12:14 - 12:17
    Sometimes when we go
    to schools to give our talks,
  • 12:17 - 12:20
    or through the social networks,
    kids ask or tell us
  • 12:20 - 12:25
    things they didn't tell
    their parents or their teachers...
  • 12:26 - 12:28
    They don't even know us.
  • 12:31 - 12:33
    Those kids need to know
  • 12:34 - 12:36
    which are the risks of being online,
  • 12:38 - 12:40
    to take care of themselves
  • 12:40 - 12:43
    but also that, as almost everything else,
  • 12:43 - 12:46
    they can learn this from any adult.
  • 12:49 - 12:53
    Online safety has to be a topic
  • 12:53 - 12:57
    in every house and in every classroom.
  • 12:58 - 12:59
    We did a survey this year that showed
  • 12:59 - 13:03
    that 15 percent of schools said
    they knew cases of grooming
  • 13:03 - 13:05
    inside the school.
  • 13:05 - 13:07
    And this number is growing.
  • 13:09 - 13:13
    Technology changed
    every aspect of our life,
  • 13:13 - 13:15
    including the risks we face
  • 13:15 - 13:17
    and how we take care of ourselves.
  • 13:18 - 13:22
    Grooming shows us this
    in the most painful way,
  • 13:23 - 13:25
    messing up with the kids.
  • 13:27 - 13:29
    Are we going to do
    something to avoid this?
  • 13:30 - 13:34
    The solution starts with
    something very easy:
  • 13:34 - 13:36
    Talking about it.
  • 13:36 - 13:37
    Thank you.
  • 13:37 - 13:38
    (Applause)
Title:
Grooming, virtual abuse? | Sebastián Bortnik | TEDxRíodelaPlata
Description:

What is grooming? Sebastián Bortnik tells us some of the risks children and teenagers are exposed to through the use of the Internet and a key to confronting them. Sebastián is an expert in Computer Security and President of Argentina Cibersegura. Is he a hacker? No, he's been engaged in education and research on computer attacks in Argentina from more than ten years.

This talk was given at a local TEDx event, produced independently of the TED Conferences. Learn more at http://ted.com/tedx

more » « less
Video Language:
Spanish
Team:
TED
Project:
TEDxTalks
Duration:
13:52

English subtitles

Revisions Compare revisions