GV Face: Happy 25th Birthday, Web!

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It's the 25th birthday of the World Wide Web this week! In this edition of GV Face, Global Voices veterans will talk about their early experiences with the web and all it has enabled us to do in our (nearly) ten years as an organization. We'll also speak with GV community leader Renata Avila and Free Press Internet Campaign Director Josh Levy, two founding members of the Web We Want campaign, a new initiative that promotes global conversation about human rights and the Internet.

our weekly video hangout series.

I think... let's see, we started a little bit off
time so I'll say it again.

Welcome to GV Face, our weekly video hangout series.

Today we are celebrating the 25th birthday

of the World Wide Web. Pretty exciting.
That was on Wednesday.

We've got a really all-star lineup of guests

on today's program.

Moving from left to right we have

Alan Emtage, a very special guest who is

gonna talk to us about his

very special creation of

the first web browser.

We have Jeremy Clark in Montreal. Jeremy is a technical director at Global Voices.

Josh Levy from Free Press

in Massachusetts in the U.S., and Renata Avila,

campaign manager for The Web We Want

Creative Commons extraordinaire, and

[?] Starr who is joining us from Berlin. Welcome, everybody!

So we wanna just start today's

show by talking a little bit about

the World Wide Web and the Internet, 'cause a lot of people think that they're the same thing

when actually that's not quite true

wanna first turn to Jeremy I'm

and just ask chair could you break it
down for us

like I thought that the internet was
invented in the seventies but

if it's the 25th birthday have the
weapons

what does that mean okay

well the best place to start I think is

the internet who has existed in various
formats

since the 1970s as he say up but it was
the web that made it really enter our

homes

and so understanding the relationship is
important

so the internet was invented by the US
government in a lot of sense is

a mix of military in science funding I
that developed the network at the actual

computers

that can communicate with each other
over wires

arm now another related technology that
is

also comprise that built into the bad

is called hypertext and that is the
notion

out documents that can link between each
other immediately

without having I to go and fetch a
separate document

arm so there were lots of system since
the nineteen sixties

that we're trying to implement hypertext
like that to do with an example

up but all of them where commercial
expensive closed

and none of them were very popular so
Tim berners-lee

who is the inventor of the Internet I I

though web obviously the World Wide Web
arm

put those two things together by
building a service that runs

on top of the Internet and he called it
the World Wide Web

soul what the World Wide Web is is

be decentralized hypertext I

engine that we used I to communicate
between

computers our web pages so

what makes up web is three things

URL's or you our eyes universal Resource
Locator

which are the addresses we use to find
things on the web

Bob HTML which is the Hypertext Markup
Language

I which is the way that be information
is stored and sent

so that we can then used browsers to

view HTML and then all the documents

can be understood and then also

they display the links so that the
Hypertext part if it works and we can

jump around from page to page

I'm the final part is HTTP which is the
Hypertext Transfer Protocol

which is the communication method by
which the different computers

can talk to each other and send be

I HTML documents back and forth
depending on the URL's

arm so when he built it there were some
very important things that he built into

this system

that didn't exist before and the main
one is

universal of worship so he always
intended

that anyone would be able to access
these web pages

and anyone would be able to add their
own web pages without asking for

permission

I with the X very explicit special
condition that anyone can link to any

other web page

without permission previous hypertext
systems

required that basically for you to link
to me I have to accept that link can

probably create a link back to you

and that was the required on the web
which gives us a lot of freedom to make

the people we who wit wouldn't want us

to be able to link them for example so
no one can say I'm putting up tree

content but you

can't send your readers here because I
hate you et cetera

are the other one is that you made it
completely completely 3

so in the world a mentor in world them
programming

the most free thing is generally
considered to be the GPL

open source free software licenses and
Tim berners-lee actually almost use the

GPL because he wanted that what web
software he was building to be free

but at the last minute yes he changed
his mind made it call public domain

because in certain ways the GPL is
actually more respect

restrictive because it forces other
people like certain commercial actors

wouldn't have wanted to use

web technology if it were GPL so he made
a full public domain

and then from there when I'm to make all
of the standard size

open and I general and three as possible

are so that's my extremely brief history
internet if anyone is curious

he wrote a wonderful book called weaving
the web about his experiences

as you can see its short and he

highlighted interesting technical
information in it without

I'll it being overwhelming it's very
approachable and he's a really

interesting person ended the book is
much better than his tweets which are

usually

in procuring all

crowded thank coach that's great chair

I mean I think that that helps on in
conversations about

internet policy in Internet governance
there's a lot of emphasis

on the ability to kinda creepy

innovate without permission like for
everybody to

be able to build parks a the web and

and what you just laid out for us makes
it clear how important

a web peace up the infrastructure is for
that

for that capacity to become a real
tangible thing and somebody that

something that now we can do you know we
don't have to have

technical expertise to kindness build
our own

our own spaces there I'm so I'm

if I can add just one more thing sorry I
as want to give a couple examples the

things that happen over the internet
that arent to bad

because that was the actual I miss a
question so

one example would be torrents where York
the cookie to computers connect to each

other

and stream information directly without
any URL's

being mixed into the process I'm another
one is email at its core

is its own communication protocol that
doesn't have to use the web although we

often use

web sites to access and manage our now

arm and then another one was the one
right before the web came out

them a very popular protocol was called
go for which

people liked and sort it worked like the
where'd you just surf around and find

things

but it actually became commercial right
around the time

that the web came out so people have
would have had to start paying and

instead of having to pay

they switched to using HTTP a shemale
and the world but

thank you so I want to move to Alan now

I'm how I couldn't bill the first

search engine

and I'm kinda like

overwhelmed and feel sort of like giddy
and nervous

having apparently speaker her big deal

I'm salome just I

you could tell us cuz I think a lot of
people don't know about archie

on it would be really cool just to hear
about

E all you sir what you were doing that
made you decide

should to do this and kinda what it was
like and then

mean everything you've seen sense
unfortunately

where time limited but welcome you know
therapy

well arm I well that was lacking that

19 I 89 and

a I was working out as a system and
mentorship therefore I am getting worse

there's no cracks chips

McGill University and I'm I A

was responsible for getting all software
for one on my responsibilities

getting software for the faculty and the
students

are and at that time there it three
major protocols on the internet this is

pretty where

I'll was I world's

telnet which would allow you to log into
a remote machine

email I which allow you to communicate

I with one what we do know 10

me more machines your and

FTP which was the File Transfer Protocol
which allowed you to move

Wow data files or file was from one
which

one sheet to another and at the time
what we had was

people had me it remember it was a non
commercial Internet

time actually commercial traffic was
forbidden on the Internet

time because it was run by the National
Science Foundation

was using educational money and
therefore

other than companies with research arms
like ID and I'll

and HD and those kinds of things we
didn't have any commercial traffic on

the Internet which

why would a seems kinda amazing to even
think about

and I so what people who did

were out to provide are three states on
your machine

remember you know at the time a big a
big

this will be a megabyte you know I'll
and so people would provide

common a or depositary still

that that you could deposit I'm

programs that you had written and I'll
data files

and documents back in stock into the
central repositories

that will spread around the internet
that other people can then

you cheaper and so I spend a lot of my
time trying to locate software

or the information that means that
students in the Faculty are trying to

find

and I got tired and since I'm easy and
the geek

I A arm I A I

automated the process a got instead of
doing it manually

I had a bunch in scripts wake up in the
middle of the night every night

and go all index these files

now remember all of this was just file
listings it's not like we will it's not

like a

I'll search engine will be today I if
yes

just I just found it's all it was bonds

and so what they would do with it would
go out every night

yes all the file names and all the
repositories allow you to search

those lists a plummets I only used it
for myself

I only used it I'm for my own

for my own personal use on at one point
my eyeballs was also

all students at your grad student at
University I'll

let peter deutsch lettin you know that

I'm somebody was asking for you know to
date could

somebody tell them where arm

emails pretty creepy software was and

I we from we see

you know he came in ASCII you at this
database iniki mostly

if I I could help out tonight gave it to
him in it you know

Pakistan pack a minute later I had the
information and so he put this

yeah posting online and I'll

people then started asking well you know

can you find this from Ian in all these
manual request

basically either through email or Usenet
postings which is what we're using

time and he thought was a silly that's
not quite doing these things manually

one week just allow people access

to the database itself and in a moment
of insanity

I we have to come up with a name for it
and I said okay well let's just call it

archie which is our client without be
and dad are

and with a no vote so out both here for
months

we were consuming what's happened all
high quality traffic to Eastern Canada

on as this search engine became his
people

you know work now I you you know people
who know RGR

generally people up a certain age I
won't mention what what ages but

and it's generally people who were in
university or working

on the internet so it would have been
researched people people in academia

I in the early 90s orgiastic for

about I am a.m.

five years for five years %uh and

only in next st PE archives it never

I'll index where now I went on

as or TJ popular and I got one ball in
the standards policies not gonna stop I

worked

of very closely with Tim berners-lee to
I am

to standardize for example I did the and
Graham

media the standard-setting body to the
Internet DCI 88

I to standardize URL's because

10 had come up with a set of above rules
the world and the

as me looked at expanding that's larger
range

out %uh resources we realize that what
rules did not

on a ver all cases so we worked

for our 10 brought that specification
his original specification to the

to group and we worked on it for I don't
remember

might not see a year or so it come up
with a standard for you or else so all

of those you're also use

day in and day out world were
standardized as a result

all what many so it was I it was a
really exciting time

it was at time out by you know the
question I always get is why did

I make a billion dollars of a bit and I
keep reminding people that

are mostly people who are pioneers with
the accepted Mr

edmark and Jason arm or

didn't make a whole lot of money off
with the squirrel

the switch in the plains we were working
in an environment which

I'll put a premium on I'll

you're getting the technology out there
making it is widely available as

possible

I tens big coup with Sharon which is the

organization that work for when we first
develop where

was two guests earned to put I'll

the the HDD where software that he
agreed

into the public to me all so it wasn't
even choose to give away

it was surgeons property as it as an
employee

he it was actually belong to Sir and
down

I she he actually convince them to be
able to

but in the public domain what's what
really all

17 Center with a firearm with the whole

so I'll at the time the the

philosophy behind it it's really let's
get this out there this is a brave new

world we don't know what's what all this
technology can be used for

I don't think any of us including 10
imagine what it would become

a you know he he always had a much
grander vision a bit

but I don't I I can guarantee you I
spent many many many many in our

and I with David sandbar is changing it
then and I can't guarantee you that

he did not suit anymore certain

I'm I should dare and

you know he even he I don't think having
idea that it would

a CD take over the world attack the
world's population will be using this

system or

he created twenty years later to anybody

or thank you so much I mean so

speaking and threats yeah it has I'm

changed and I guess

taken over in a way I that me

that mean I'm sure wouldn't have
expected a

I wanted to now move to Josh

and judge were not I'll cool are both

perini I'll who

very committed involves

leaders and what is now become

a global at for two

mean the way it was surprising in to
save the Internet or preserve and

protect

to open this on and all up to

right to tree expression access

on and up also privacy that have

that me all would feel are embedded
actually

in the way that it was bill so

Josh I wonder if you could explain to us
really briefly what

your where your role is in your
organization and then also

on tell us about the web we want
campaign

and explain you know how you think this

rights movement is is shaping up and

and if you can kinda link it with
everything that Allen just laid out for

us

out to be really wonderful although my
best so

my name's Josh levy I'm from Free Press
where

us-based organization we advocate for

better technology media policy that
allows

or an open Internet or better
representation

people in the media including in and an
immediate

thats online and for open access

information and this Asian ever talk
method

anniversary at the web has really
central to our work because we've been

fighting

for example to you at past

strong mentality policies here in the US
for years

at basically ever since the issue first
came up with the mid 2000's

missile big internet service providers
blocking

trafficking coming from their
destinations and

that fight is ongoing the FCC to better
communications commission here in the US

which

is charged with overseeing
communications and technology policy

past rules in 2010 they were intended to
protect me chali but we're passing our

in a way that we knew what was gonna
hold up in court

anywhere as unfortunately we saw that

happened earlier this year when I court
in Washington DC

throughout those roles effectively
throwing out any net neutrality

protections that people have

and so this gets back kinda but Jeremy
were saying

the internet versus the web right so
when we're talking about net neutrality

which I have a lot of people

heard about this on Sat that you should
be able to access

any information on why online without
anybody getting in the way

out with it that's a big company or the
government

an that is essentially

that's it a policy that applies to the
Internet to the ways in which all are

computers connect with each other and we
have this basic understanding

that the internet should be reno it
meaning that my computer should be able

next yours into this well networked
computers without any entity

inspecting the traffic trying to
understand what you're trying to access

and based on that are in a blog so it
doesn't like the video watching slowing

it down our

denied application using walking it that
that should be totally unacceptable we

should be able to net

to whatever we want in whatever way we
want and that includes using the web

rights to the web

is basically an application that ride
over the Internet

the internet says global network the
weather is just one application that

uses that

or network and so it is essential net
challenged essential using where the

as as we've seen today using the web is
so essential to all our lives

and big companies and governments have
so much power over it

bad at the inn block alright things
political speech

video that you want to watch features a
cat there so

I'm anyway so that's what the press is
doing in large part is trying to protect

that notion

net neutrality and wall added that fight

came a number campaign link their at me

stock so it was that bad copyright
they'll your get your the US

and after that you know realization I
think here the US around the world that

we are needed

I each other a little bit or those of us
who have been

advocating for reopen it for a long time
and so we started doing that

repressed led the development and
wrapping up something called the

decoration etc reno

which was a simple statement of
principles out they are right to access

information online

and Adam backing up really fruitful
relationship with Tim berners-lee

organization the world wide web
foundation

and we discussed ways in which we could
move that effort

forward this you that declaration effort

to involve more troops around the world
more people around the world

and shit guarantee that we all have
access to information

and that that access and the principles
behind it

are not a demanded any one country or
anyone

it also added that in this great project
the web we want which we're not going to

tell you more about

which is seeking to do just that to you

pass laws around the world that will
protect people's right to access the

internet

into to access content on the web
without anybody getting in the way

and its its building steam very very
quickly

we are working with countries around the
world developed their own set of

principles regarding the webinar rights
on it

and organizing lot smarter organizations
that it really excited

by getting involved in this effort and
art remote uniting

gross we're all fighting the same by
departs the world is

had come to light so I let me not to
tell you more about that

and hello everyone everybody'd 3d

want me here a solo the way we want

it would be set luncheon of a

a very important group of organizations
FMC society and we'll

mention other then and Eve access

that many of us are from you every EPC

athlete Brett from the US its leader in
jordan Eberle

the open-source Association dorgan as
well

and a consumers international

and article nineteen that's the only
thing about God's mercy O

I V 40 gb/s public knowledge she in the
US

and me we have the we got the
confirmation that

Open Knowledge Foundation which has
affiliate is over

war doing this book ASO

basically they can be what we are trying
to achieve a here

you do and more from their reactions
because the

reactions that lets users say you you
outcropping approach

you have a positive agenda like this a
first

in different countries and a note so
nobody

and what happens is usually the we got
together let me know and we reacted

badly to his nation be

alls a everybody either and

specific purpose a interest what very
creative

but not so well-informed legislator

and in so you the last

let's say five years we have seen so
many mobile stations

against against against so we think that

yeses want to have a a reaction bad
legislation but he's much more effective

the

also people to use the Site a nobody

XTS is a be understood us the whole

18 works Bentley FB you should be using
the Internet government but seems as a

few

moline everyone enough I well rights

and so and we would have a deeper and

DVD sandifer Nationals it to achieve
that

their personal be in Ben's work in
specific countries

wieder it we a you get all the Advisory
Committee

so that there's something going on there
some movement in society in there so

action there it is sOooo believe the
country's between the

week at that decided you get that first
it

and got to use a button and more
stronger support

from the one a what we won by Jenson
would be

just bad Indonesia Philippines India
found that they expressed to you

it with your YouTube the UK Nisha aunty
react Kenya

and so happy so as you see each other

mostly condition that no one cell
outside the UK be good you

a saw an opportunity there yes well so
that every Christian

rights and be very interesting to see
how the deterioration

rights in the country even had been
taken in a democratic country villa

in years has been very extreme is that
is really

affecting the region Anna apart from you

a in Ben's work that we have blended
national dialogue scene is going to say

warm it well and we have also and we are
left

1820 parts of March a meeting routes as
well

at the meeting Lance %uh it for everyone
to apply

so you don't need to be an NGO you don't
need to be a

a an expert like that for these plants
when we will these

normal people Archies musicians everyone

it to be involved in the simple a.m.
request once the celebrated are key

or working with but at the same time
that was celebrated with

the start a conversation on what we do
what we want what he's in what do you

think that

what a which by any means and which a.m.

for we want it you which way we want to
protect it with no

wanted that free and open when and so it
can be something

ass as a symbol that that screen and in
the published

week space it can be something more
elaborate it like that like a

well at your local library it can be
anything you want you can be given that

spoke during the meeting love with Celia

a it dozen people whether whether a
person's

in it for you and what also

we know that we can know the bottom a
those fighting against

so we have a but it would response a

grants and these rapid response plans
have for

it we it have I didn't buy that
sometimes the make some be

happened in its own resources especially
in some punches in the levels out so

for example did think about that very
bad surveillance local

last Ian nicaragua so these rapid
response

a which will be open during the whole
give me love activist see

nascent me very bad things happen

and we think that if we it got another
Google

people together and we read the

and it lets in the evening get assure PD
about that

we have a good chance to as she that
their opinion

our site there's decided rights and so
that would be open as well

it would be that would be up in the or
so at my and March

and you will be we may not be too late
for year

and what we will at she but the end of
the year is that very interesting

and when it should have experience we
will see it

and that web it went well

people won't in a specific country with
more intense the

follow-up mechanism and I N O win as a
scene which techniques

I did this for rapid response went their
separate you know of any Burnett

it by adding the collection experiences
from the rapid response plans

and as a wee wee letter from at ways to
engage

uploader Monique use a in our topics in
our issues

so I I am very hopeful that especially
artists

very creative activists it went for

I'm ways to engage in a broader public
because the

need a he's ours and their

future eat the Benson also Serafini and
more

it people invited me despite more was
the strong and you get

a a at last I i will.

and we'll elected by everyone to

to being a slick here the way that you
can gauge to use

i'm nina and need to apply for these
grants will

not only pure bedford is Lansing to make
in 20

I it you only if you want to write an
article

you are an expert in specific topics it
he's great articles

News shared knowledge with people and
peace it engage in that

them yet but that the egos headed

here where author sauce and the Internet
offers those

use them for two people communicate and
panicking and borders and they've been

there

it's lonely here a.m. the list that
phone

it which is not that a website but he
said that

on and made of the connecti that he's
ready to

jumper and and do

think actions to say that with any
moment that using in the

let so yes

what's it you well

thanks that's really I think it's great
to serve to have that out there for

people to understand

all the way so they can get involved

wanting right so in thinking about how
can we make

a little show today that would celebrate
the web

I couldn't help but think about Global
Voices

because that's what brings us all
together here

and I think that our community and so
many ways

I mean we couldn't exist we wouldn't
exist without the web

but doctor also so many on particular

attributes ovett in when it comes to
access and openness that

allow us to do all the things that we do
like including this

hang out right now I'm so I wanted to
ask

although we're really short on time so
I'm gonna have to asking to be super

presh

but chair you I kinda I said is there
could you talk

a little bit about what with if you look
at Global Voices

answered the way that it's grown-up on

with the Internet you've been here since
the beginning so you can kinda wish

just tell us tell us a bit

okay well I I actually haven't been

where at Global Voices since the very
beginning

but I joined near the start so maybe you
can see on my screen

Global Voices we started actually in
2005

I and one of the great things about the
story

is that it was started

quickly in easily I by ethan Zuckerman

arm who set up the original site I

along with Rebecca MacKinnon who out
worked on the idea content and so

they actually used word press which is
this system we still use today

and which is very similar to the web in
a lot of sense is

I because it's a distributed project
people all around the world develop it

its open source and it's free and it is
so

not by convenience but by very explicit
philosophy and they're very active in

defending Mac

arm and also in another way I originally

I at the time there was a very popular
free software called movable type

which became commercial and instead sign
a paper at people

switch to Word Press I'm so this was our
original website

we later redesigned it several times I

and over the years we have grown with

I Word Press to at take advantage of the
new features

and I keep running our site and sell
running are

our whole infrastructure on this very
decentralized open source model has been

I really rewarding experience for us are
just as

using the web has then obviously I there
what are the most interesting

things is that Global Voices is all
about the web without the web without

that

decentralized of the ship anyone can
write to it there would be no Global

Voices

the whole point in little ways as well
as to recognize that people all over the

world were taking advantage of the
benefits of the web

and create one place where you can find
it sort of like a archie wise

I with GE pre web telnet days

a archive things happening all around

I've got Google Voice is dead arm

so yeah no and

you know we've tried a lot of different
infrastructure based around the web over

the years

I we you strip all reviews a lot of
different online service that is

obviously like everyone else

the temptation to take advantage of
Google's free offerings has always been

are part of Global Voices DNA we use
Google mailing lists we use

I all the different things that they
make for free

which is an interesting part of the web
because it's not the web that Google

just happening to give it away but at
the company they have a tendency to

follow the spirit of the web

I even though they're doing so for
commercial reasons

up but yeah that Mike

it very brief summary of the history
always given how to parallel the web

thank you I'm afraid we're gonna have to
wrap up now but

just to do that I wanted to ask for

a couple love kinda final thoughts um

from from Allen and perhaps also Josh
just

I'm Alan I guess I'm I'm especially

interested in if there are kinda
thoughts that you have on all of the

activism and advocacy that's taking
place around

fundamental rights on the internet kinda
from from

your own

unique historical perspective and then

I wanted to close on by asking or not
it's just tell

ass very little bit about Basle

I'm since there's also an important
anniversary this weekend

%uh so I'm gonna just let you guys go
and then we will

close-up won't end well arm

you know I'll I have I haven't been
involved

awesome activists for a for a quite some
time now

year a sort of bernard hogan-howe patrol
biatch

I'll lying around the globe and and at
the mall except maybe the nineties

I but I certainly is its to pay a lot of
attention to that stuff

a I am currently in Barbados right now

and down it has been really interesting
to

trying out for one example trying to
access content

from United States om all your
entertainment content action star

and II manual to study read but

a real it but in in practice the

antiquated models I'll %uh of content
distribution

that we are still holding onto om in
this day in age

where no geographical boundaries and
national boundaries not

on Sat are still very much at once
entropies business models

a get you know our are not things like

but our internet esta whiten way at it
on

well I see no music industry a seamless
happen now for

ethnic I'm I would certainly from the
actors

on you in terms of keeping the the
Internet I'm freaking

and unavailable its are it's going to be
a real challenge I mean it's such a

important technology now and you have
things like a great

wall are the Great Firewall of China
Omni power

you know russia recently as a while
yesterday today

shutting down I'll using got new laws to
shut down access to

guess at I against hooting I'll

you know this getting reelected are I'm

egypt was a real wake-up call for a lot
of people on the use of social

networking

I'll juju organize an activity on

people and bring them up onto the sheets
so governments are scared this

technology

and it's important that we worked really
hard to keep it is

this reason is because they realize that
not for me chin

are you talking to mention you control
the people so I'm

I think it is a strange journey partner
people I

let's just do not want to continue to
work are very hard to you

to stop the battle Austin form below the
Legislature's

summer just another eight rats I mean
you know never ascribe to malice what

will be

ascribed to incompetence and on these
people are just incompetent not not

malicious

I'll but they are people who are
malicious as well so we have to deal

with them as well

but top it's you know it's vitally
important the yes

I nowadays not be these technologies
reset

at the core or culture and the way we
communicate on may

I me others at 10 quickly at

I think that we read in your interesting
moment where

so many basic knowledge the

importance on the internet and no
nowhere ands

be impact it's had a on every aspect of
our

culture and and because of that I think
we as the

users at the where into the internet
have

a duty to hold the government

governments around the world in
companies around the world accountable

and to you its

urge them and pressure them to protect
the openness

that lies at the core I'll this entire

name and to protect not just openness
but

also this notion 0 comments thats

I in our opinion quickly being lost

this notion that the that the internet
and that the web are

I'll are publicly on and that

it the activity that takes place on them
as activity that we

undertake net me it that is ours and
that is not baby

mean up the big companies on his
platforms

me undertake the activity so for example

google has allowed us to do a lot of
things Google

lost by a lot of information extremely
quickly

to connect to each other extremely well
he is not working at

are doing right now but Google's doing
all this and

at while mining the data to get

selling of that data that data is also
creating this historic all

record up everything then search
warrants a online which has been no

exploited by governments but also by
companies as I think it's time for us to

think about that relationship between us

and these big companies which is
becoming essential part of our

online experience and have to me the
centralized that happen we

decouple ourselves from these giant
companies and take back

or should I wear so that we are all in
this experience in a deeper way and that

it's not and experience is purely
commercial and a commercial transaction

between us and

and if a company so that that's a big
question spent eight years for travel it

right solutions but we're hoping that we
can start it our station now

well now now I'm not and now and we go
back to something that

germs set and he left a but that he met
means that you did in the

border Canadian border because the
happier

and now with a while I want to talk
about the set that up

at the end of the day yourself we've
reduced

a number of people who can actually

eat some countries and not control the
internet but you see

Eden you understand the infrastructure
and use it in a way

that the weekend increase public who and
they can

to help people in extreme situations and
10 did

it these people he said my friend but he
kept happy

battle back to lead the Internet
basically

Mathai said a and palestinian Syrian
activities

and he said i think is the food culture
and your clothes he said you know he's

not that he had not super nationalist

you keep keep he had trouble lol
extensively

here Rams over two were and he liked
that he likes to spend time

and learning how things water I'll in
separate so that you think will

the computers and he has learned it
himself healthy

up to the gold that it brings the own
goal

then he was a he knows a lot about
hardware as well and he knows and

about we coach or and and he said I'm

and when he so hey there You or was he
so all these

wonderful things happen and and said he
thought the

Britain's the create hacker space in the
baskets

I don't know how translation what's what
in the

apparently hackerspace what's a very
scary Lord forgive CBN

as is to be and you don't answer me
this:

and they saw it as a threat the people
in power grid technology acid great

who don't plan to control people paso's

here on the 15 up December

two years ago they hackerspace with
greater

all the computers where they cannot wait
all the things with this month opened

him up

and united in wanna be set up Syrian
please looking at that

reedy reader only goal well the nato the
delaney

nuclear weapons or something like that
%uh and

73 he have enough a weighty and he had
been

recently was that he see West the

in a very very bad reason so did

orchard treatment but then he was a
things through that book I feel

at thousands of people he was it we
passed

her back to his VM recent we each

you can imagine how even deep is the
civilian prison

how is this looks like and you he said a

the conditions get but worse

a that goes by and the Syrian government
once

out all were resources the last people
really

feed the last people they would take
care all are the prisoners

on the book that last release it has a a
health condition

he's all relief that but

me yeah what we me happy intrepid
building at least it two years

is the keeping baseball and didn't keep
reminding him that we haven't forgotten

and to keep reminded you that we yeah

in braided values that he embraces the
that support the cause is that he

seen supports school a been up to

think you know the you know just been
saddened but nothing

we have been deeply baffled they the 15
of March

what some things are already starting
today and what we want is that joint

action

a Bleezy mean and

you can be it do remember bottle and not
only battle

but remember Syria because it seems that
because if the new laws media's

it we don't we don't be a hear about
Syria and more

I mean it's is like good in December
been on the popular

and we we will if we got some timely

were OK and something is good but
neither the symbol

have well but then a vote no on the
suffering and together we to

wood bats and I'm not sober system
administrators

computer experts and had a fierce

what I recent so that we only care about
journalists in others lots of people

that somebody will people

for the future Syria and who would
increase in our

what the we need our solidarity

I mean let's elect to even you're
leaving a gun T

air which has received a Syrian refugees

you show your solidarity I know that
share on your computer

mind some appealing but maybe go won the
nineteen a computer

with internet access this refugee camp
so they can

stay in touch with their reluctance that
growth may be

do enough to shark tall coach ashore
gathering

your day I think that that there was no
with ways who

help battle because that's what what but
it probably will be between if you must

be

so my feeling is that not forget Syria

not forget that so that free internet if
the

up the internet with the bath and this
year and that's

we might want action what is the web she
wants

where many about on so there is a lot of
work to do

I'm and there are lots of ways to get
involved

Street right about I think you everybody
so much

for coming on today and um

we hope to see you everybody here and

out there next week on GB face thanks so
much