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← Are You a Young, Proud, Rude Pharisee? - Ask Pastor Tim

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Showing Revision 3 created 05/31/2018 by Carrie Spradlin.

  1. He says - now follow this.
  2. You have to be discerning.
  3. And I know I've read
    this thing 3 or 4 times,
  4. so sometimes you don't catch everything
  5. in the first time you read it.
  6. "I want to live for Christ
  7. with all that is in me..."
  8. Okay. You get that far...
  9. Again, love assumes the best.
  10. And you take him at his word.
  11. "I attended a youth group
  12. which I no longer attend.
  13. And the youth pastor sent
    me a long message."
  14. So this is the youth pastor
  15. to one of the young
    men that was attending.
  16. "In it, he said I was a Pharisee.
  17. He called me stubborn.
  18. He called me judgmental, rude,
  19. cruel, toxic, and prideful."
  20. I mean, to even get one of those words
  21. is not good,
  22. but when a pastor gives
    you all those words...
  23. "He said this was feedback
  24. he received from others."
  25. And then the guy admits,
  26. "those who aren't Christians
    have told me things like this."
  27. So this isn't the first guy
    that's told him this.
  28. And then he admits this too:
  29. "I'm sure there are just as many
    Christians who think this..."
  30. about him.
  31. And then he says this,
  32. "Obviously, there is a disconnect here.
  33. I've watched you guys at I'll Be Honest.
  34. I read the Puritans.
  35. I read ten chapters a day of Scripture."
  36. And then he says this:
  37. "I don't see how someone
  38. could be saturated with so much truth
  39. and yet be accused of things like this."
  40. If you're discerning, I hope you recognize
  41. there's something really wrong with that.
  42. "I love God.
  43. I love His Word.
  44. And my life has drastically changed
  45. since my conversion."
  46. And then he admits this:
  47. "Prayer is a weak area in my life.
  48. So maybe my problem is there.
  49. If not, where else could it be?
  50. I bear marks of truly being saved,
  51. and those who are calling
    me all these things
  52. don't deny that I'm saved.
  53. But, could it be that I'm still lost?
  54. I don't want to be bringing
  55. so much dishonor to God with these things,
  56. so please help."
  57. Mario, what do you tell him?

  58. (from the room)
  59. That's tough.
  60. Because, those people could be
  61. testifying to right things in his life,
  62. but they could also be resisting truth.
  63. Tim: Let me just ask this question.
  64. Is it likely that multiple
    people telling you -
  65. because he admits that other people
  66. have told him similar things.
  67. When you have multiple people telling you
  68. that you are Pharisaical, stubborn,
  69. judgmental, rude, cruel,
    toxic, and prideful,
  70. is it likely that there's not
    a shred of truth to it?
  71. (from the room)
  72. Sounds like a cage-stager.
  73. Tim: Sounds like what?
  74. (from the room)
    He's in a cage stage a little bit.
  75. Tim: Cage stage?
  76. (from the room)
    In Calvinism, when you first learn
  77. about Calvinism or truths, it's very easy
  78. to be obnoxious about it
  79. and basically beat everybody around you.
  80. Tim: Now, he doesn't
    bring that out specifically.
  81. (from the room)
    the fact he said those
  82. who aren't Christians
    have told me these things -
  83. to me, that holds even more
    weight than the Christians.
  84. That unbelievers are telling
    him these same things -
  85. that he's judgmental, stubborn, toxic...
  86. Tim: But let's pick up on this.
  87. How many of you were, in the beginning
  88. when you came to kind of embrace
  89. the doctrines of grace - if you have -
  90. maybe some of you haven't;
  91. but how many of you were
  92. somewhat obnoxious with it?
  93. Okay, so we've got hands,
    but let me ask you.
  94. Even... and so was I.
  95. Even in that state
  96. as obnoxious as you were,
  97. did people say this about you?
  98. Did they call you Pharisaical, stubborn,
  99. judgmental, rude, cruel,
    toxic, and prideful?
  100. (from the room)
    Not all at the same time.
  101. Tim: Well, see, I actually don't remember
  102. anybody using those words to describe me.
  103. (from the room)
    I just got told that I'm preaching
  104. another Gospel.
  105. Tim: Well, right. That was more the thing.
  106. Well, it can't be true.
  107. Somebody told me,
  108. "I hope you'll be happy
    in heaven by yourself."
  109. Because it seemed so narrow.
  110. (from the room)
    You told me I was judgmental.
  111. But that was after about a year
    and a half of being a Christian.
  112. So we don't know much about this pastor.
  113. He might be solid on
    the same page doctrinally.
  114. Tim: Oh, he could be.
  115. (incomplete thought)
  116. (from the room)
    Did you mention the kids age?
  117. Or did you skip that?
    Tim: I skipped it.
  118. (from the room)
    To me, that's interesting too.
  119. Tim: He's 14.
  120. That softened people.
  121. I purposely left it out for that reason.
  122. But at 14, you're that proud, obnoxious,
  123. toxic? I mean that word!
  124. That's a bad word.
  125. What's that?
  126. (from the room)
    Would it be easier for him
  127. to fall into that because he's so young?
  128. Tim: Perhaps.
  129. (from the room)
    If he was 24, he'd have ten more years
  130. of maturing as a person.
  131. Tim: But here's one of the things he says.
  132. "I watch you guys on I'll Be Honest.
  133. I read the Puritans and I read
  134. ten chapters a day of Scripture."
  135. Now that's kind of
    Pharisaical right there.
  136. It's like throwing out there:
  137. "I read ten chapters a day."
  138. And then to say, "I don't see how
  139. someone could be saturated
    with so much truth
  140. and yet be accused of things like this."
  141. Well, see, that's lacking discernment.
  142. That's very ignorant.
  143. (from the room)
    He's just immature.
  144. But I think he's trying
    to protect himself.
  145. He's 14 in this world.
  146. I don't know what kind
    of school he goes to,
  147. but I think if he goes to public school,
  148. I can see myself trying to
    wrap myself in the Word
  149. and just standing on it.
  150. So he's immature, but at the same time,
  151. I think he's trying to
    stand for what is right.
  152. That's a lot of negative
    words in one sentence.
  153. Tim: He's 14. He's a baby.
  154. So we don't excuse it,
  155. but maybe we are a little softer.
  156. He needs guidance. Okay.
  157. What guidance are we going to give him?
  158. Because he's probably watching.
  159. Or he probably will watch
    if James puts this up.
  160. (unintelligible)
  161. Tim: Well, surrounding himself
  162. with those who are very gracious
  163. would be a good influence;
  164. it would be a good starting point.
  165. And you know, there's a possibility
  166. that he doesn't have saved parents.
  167. He was converted maybe
    not through family means.
  168. (Incomplete thought)
  169. He doesn't talk about
    his parental situation.
  170. But is there anything in Scripture

  171. that would lead us to believe
  172. that we become like those we hang around?
  173. Can anybody quote some place?
  174. (unintelligible)
  175. Well, that's the negative,
  176. but how about the positive?
  177. (unintelligible)
  178. He who walks with the wise is wise.
  179. (unintelligible)
  180. Yeah, it's definitely a biblical reality.
  181. And there's the reality of imitation.
  182. We're to imitate the faith of people.
  183. And we're very much called
  184. to imitate those who imitate Christ.
  185. We're very much called to find people -
  186. you know, it's kind of
    the leaven principle.
  187. Leaven leavens the lump.
  188. But it's amazing when
    you have godly people -
  189. you know how often people
  190. came away from just
    sitting for a little bit
  191. and talking to Martyn Lloyd-Jones?
  192. They said you just felt a
    greater nearness to God.
  193. I remember Charles and Mona said
  194. that they were in Wales,
  195. and a friend of Lloyd-Jones -
  196. and I can't recall his name right off,
  197. was it McMillan?
  198. They spent a little time with him
  199. and they said it was like
  200. the fragrance of Christ
    stayed with them for awhile.
  201. There's impact in being around people.
  202. I noticed at the Denton conference -
  203. you know, I'd look around
  204. and I'd look to see where Jared was.
  205. It wasn't really that I was
    looking to see where he was;
  206. it was just I would notice,
  207. hey, there's Charles. There's Jared.
  208. Hey, there's Geoffrey Thomas.
    There's Jared.
  209. The guy's walking around
    with all the preachers.
  210. Well, you know there's something to that.
  211. And if we surround ourselves
  212. with the godliest people that we can,
  213. it's really going to have
    an impact on our life.
  214. That would be one thing to tell him.
  215. Being in a church where you have
  216. those kind of elders;
  217. men whose faith is worth imitating.
  218. What else would you tell him?
  219. (from the room)
    I would say something that I learned
  220. earlier in my walk.
  221. He mentioned the fact that
    he reads a lot of Puritans.
  222. (unintelligible)
  223. Maybe sometimes you need
    to lay off those books
  224. and go to Scripture and see how
  225. you're supposed to be a Christian.
  226. That helped me because I got into
  227. reading all this, and
    Mack told me one day,
  228. hey, brother, how about you
    just lay off those books
  229. and just focus on the Bible itself
  230. and that greatly helped me.
  231. Tim: And he says, "I don't see how
  232. someone could be saturated
    with so much truth
  233. and yet be accused of things like this."
  234. I would say to him
  235. you can be saturated with a lot of truth,
  236. but if you're not living the truth;
  237. if you actually are being mean and cruel
  238. and toxic and rude and Pharisaical,
  239. that's why you're being accused of it.
  240. How much intake of Puritans
  241. or how much intake of Scripture
  242. isn't the issue.
  243. Because there is a knowledge,
  244. there's a gaining of intellect
    that simply puffs up.
  245. It produces pride.
  246. One of the things that can happen
  247. is we gain information, and
    we become judgmental.
  248. We judge other people.
  249. Or we look down on other people
  250. because they don't know what we know.
  251. But, what we want to aim for
  252. is to be transformed by this truth.
  253. And then he does admit this too.
  254. He admits that his
    prayer life isn't very good.
  255. See, that's another indication of pride,
  256. because desperate people,
  257. needy people pray.
  258. Proud people don't need the Lord.
  259. They don't need to pray.
  260. When people know:
  261. "Lord, I can't do this without You,"
  262. you find them out in the field praying
  263. or in their closet praying.
  264. People who can bypass prayer,
  265. that is a real evidence of weakness,
  266. immaturity, pride,
    self-sufficiency, independence.
  267. Anybody say anything else?
  268. (from the room)
  269. I mean, that balance is difficult.
  270. That balance that James and yourself
  271. were talking about last Sunday.
  272. That's a difficult thing.
  273. And we need a lot of help
    from the Holy Spirit
  274. to find balance. It's tough.
  275. Tim: One of the things
  276. that we need to remember too -
  277. he's not actually saying
    that this has to do
  278. with embracing the sovereignty of God
  279. or the doctrines of grace.
  280. But I will say this,
  281. it's very interesting to me,
  282. when I was studying -
  283. I did a number of messages,
  284. six messages here at GCC
  285. on hyper-Calvinism several years back,
  286. and what was very interesting to me
  287. is that Calvin in his "Institutes" -
  288. he started by having election first
  289. and then the doctrine of justification.
  290. Now think about it -
  291. that's the order in which they happen.
  292. In eternity past, God chooses.
  293. In the course of time, we believe
  294. and are justified by
    faith in Jesus Christ.
  295. So he put them in ordo salutis fashion.
  296. But you know what he recognized?
  297. He recognized the doctrine of election
  298. is a stumbling block for the lost.
  299. And he changed the chapters.
  300. He put justification by
    faith before election.
  301. There's a lot of wisdom to that.
  302. A lot of people come
    across the doctrines of grace
  303. and you know what they want to do?
  304. They want to lost grandma
  305. and start talking Romans 9.
  306. That's not what you want to do.
  307. You want to go to the text you went to.
  308. "Whoever thirsts..."
  309. You want to preach the Gospel to them.
  310. Banging people over the head
    with election doesn't save them.
  311. People need to trust Christ.
  312. You need to show them Christ.
  313. You need to show them
    the beauties of Christ.
  314. You need to put Him up as
    the only hope of mankind.
  315. Because really, when it comes
    to the responsibility of men,
  316. their responsibility is: God commands
    all men everywhere to repent.
  317. That's their responsibility.
  318. Because what happens is
  319. I thank the Lord,
  320. I was not bogged down by election
  321. and predestination.
  322. I came across "The Gospel
    According to Jesus,"
  323. and I was hit full blast with the Gospel
  324. out of Matthew's Gospel primarily.
  325. I didn't know those things
  326. and so they weren't a stumbling block;
  327. they weren't a snare to me.
  328. But I've seen people get
    so ensnared by that.
  329. But it's a non-issue.
  330. You say why? If I'm not
    chosen, I can't be saved!
  331. Technically speaking, yes, that's true.
  332. But, the reality of Scripture
  333. is that if you come to Christ,
  334. He's not going to cast you out.
  335. If you thirst, drink.
  336. That's what Scripture says.
  337. Whosoever... if you're thirsty, drink.
  338. So you don't want to hit people
  339. with this thought -
  340. and you know what Jared was just saying?
  341. This last Sunday he preached out of John 7
  342. and when he was all done,
  343. a woman came up and said,
    "I didn't like that message,
  344. because you didn't emphasize
    the fact that God chooses us."
  345. See, that is the hyper-
    Calvinism right there.
  346. Because you know what happens?
  347. You tell the sinner,
  348. "Well, you can only
    be saved if you're elect."
  349. And so you know what they do?
  350. Now they're going to sit there
  351. and they're going to wait
    to see if they're elect.
  352. And they're going to think it's useless
  353. to do anything else
  354. until I can figure out if I'm elect.
  355. But they're never going to
    figure out if they're elect.
  356. When the reality is,
    Jesus didn't come along
  357. and say you've got to
    figure out if you're elect.
  358. He came along and He said,
    "repent and believe the Gospel."
  359. And we appeal to man's responsibility,
  360. not to God's sovereignty,
  361. not when we're preaching the Gospel.
  362. And it's a snare.
  363. I think Calvin was absolutely
    right in doing what he did.
  364. So we need to be careful.
  365. We come to these doctrines;
  366. we come to the doctrine of
    the sovereignty of God.
  367. But what that ought to do
  368. is not be this club to beat
    people over the head;
  369. it ought to fuel your confidence
  370. that when you take the
    Gospel and preach it,
  371. it's going to be the power
    of God unto salvation.
  372. People are going to get saved.
  373. Because God's going to see
    to it that people get saved.
  374. But they're going to get saved
  375. as you lift up Christ.
  376. Remember what Christ said.
  377. It's just like out there
    in the wilderness,
  378. you've got all these fiery serpents
    and they're biting people
  379. and what happened?
  380. Moses, make a brazen serpent.
  381. And he lifted it up on a pole,
  382. and as many as looked -
  383. and He said in the same way,
  384. the Son of Man is going to be lifted up,
  385. and whoever looks on Him and believes,
  386. they're going to be saved.
  387. That's what we want to show people.
  388. Christ is your only hope.
  389. Scripture does not say
    election is your only hope.
  390. Christ is your only hope.
  391. (incomplete thought)
  392. Yes, in a way, I know you could argue,
  393. well, election does bring hope.
  394. And it does.
  395. It brings certainty to the reality
  396. that our Gospel is going to produce fruit.
  397. (from the room)
  398. Brother, I heard Lloyd-Jones in his book,

  399. "What is an Evangelical?"
  400. And he boldly stated,
    "yes, I'm a Calvinist,
  401. but I wouldn't put predestination
  402. and election under the essentials."
  403. He said it's not essential.
  404. It's the resurrection, being born again,
  405. that's what essential.
  406. Tim: Any other word for young Zechariah?

  407. Okay.
  408. You'd warn him against pride.
  409. (from the room)
  410. Maybe take him the
    Scripture about being humble.
  411. Isaiah 66.
  412. "This is the one to whom I will look,
  413. he who is humble and contrite in spirit
  414. and trembles at My Word."
  415. Tim: The problem with
    pride is that it's blind.
  416. The problem with pride
    is that it exalts self.
  417. And when you're exalting yourself,
  418. you're right in your own eyes.
  419. And so, that's the difficulty.
  420. (from the room)
  421. I'd probably ask him if he's gone
  422. to his youth pastor
  423. and asked him why he said those things.
  424. (unintelligible)
  425. Tim: Well, I have a feeling
  426. there is definitely weight behind it.
  427. There's truth behind it.
  428. And I guess that's one
    of the things I'd say to him
  429. is take these things as being true,
  430. and humble yourself.
  431. Repent of these things.
  432. Humble yourself before the Lord.