Religion, evolution, and the ecstasy of self-transcendence
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0:00 - 0:03I have a question for you:
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0:03 - 0:05Are you religious?
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0:05 - 0:07Please raise your hand right now
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0:07 - 0:10if you think of yourself as a religious person.
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0:10 - 0:13Let's see, I'd say about three or four percent.
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0:13 - 0:16I had no idea there were so many believers at a TED Conference.
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0:16 - 0:18(Laughter)
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0:18 - 0:20Okay, here's another question:
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0:20 - 0:22Do you think of yourself as spiritual
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0:22 - 0:24in any way, shape or form? Raise your hand.
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0:24 - 0:27Okay, that's the majority.
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0:27 - 0:29My Talk today
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0:29 - 0:31is about the main reason, or one of the main reasons,
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0:31 - 0:33why most people consider themselves
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0:33 - 0:35to be spiritual in some way, shape or form.
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0:35 - 0:38My Talk today is about self-transcendence.
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0:38 - 0:41It's just a basic fact about being human
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0:41 - 0:44that sometimes the self seems to just melt away.
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0:44 - 0:46And when that happens,
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0:46 - 0:49the feeling is ecstatic
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0:49 - 0:51and we reach for metaphors of up and down
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0:51 - 0:53to explain these feelings.
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0:53 - 0:55We talk about being uplifted
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0:55 - 0:57or elevated.
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0:57 - 1:00Now it's really hard to think about anything abstract like this
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1:00 - 1:02without a good concrete metaphor.
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1:02 - 1:05So here's the metaphor I'm offering today.
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1:05 - 1:08Think about the mind as being like a house with many rooms,
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1:08 - 1:11most of which we're very familiar with.
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1:11 - 1:14But sometimes it's as though a doorway appears
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1:14 - 1:16from out of nowhere
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1:16 - 1:19and it opens onto a staircase.
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1:19 - 1:21We climb the staircase
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1:21 - 1:25and experience a state of altered consciousness.
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1:25 - 1:27In 1902,
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1:27 - 1:29the great American psychologist William James
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1:29 - 1:32wrote about the many varieties of religious experience.
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1:32 - 1:34He collected all kinds of case studies.
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1:34 - 1:36He quoted the words of all kinds of people
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1:36 - 1:38who'd had a variety of these experiences.
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1:38 - 1:40One of the most exciting to me
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1:40 - 1:42is this young man, Stephen Bradley,
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1:42 - 1:45had an encounter, he thought, with Jesus in 1820.
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1:45 - 1:48And here's what Bradley said about it.
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1:51 - 1:53(Music)
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1:54 - 1:57(Video) Stephen Bradley: I thought I saw the savior in human shape
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1:57 - 1:59for about one second in the room,
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1:59 - 2:01with arms extended,
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2:01 - 2:04appearing to say to me, "Come."
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2:04 - 2:07The next day I rejoiced with trembling.
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2:07 - 2:10My happiness was so great that I said I wanted to die.
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2:10 - 2:13This world had no place in my affections.
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2:13 - 2:15Previous to this time,
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2:15 - 2:17I was very selfish and self-righteous.
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2:17 - 2:20But now I desired the welfare of all mankind
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2:20 - 2:22and could, with a feeling heart,
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2:22 - 2:25forgive my worst enemies.
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2:26 - 2:28JH: So note
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2:28 - 2:30how Bradley's petty, moralistic self
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2:30 - 2:32just dies on the way up the staircase.
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2:32 - 2:34And on this higher level
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2:34 - 2:37he becomes loving and forgiving.
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2:38 - 2:40The world's many religions have found so many ways
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2:40 - 2:42to help people climb the staircase.
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2:42 - 2:44Some shut down the self using meditation.
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2:44 - 2:46Others use psychedelic drugs.
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2:46 - 2:50This is from a 16th century Aztec scroll
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2:50 - 2:53showing a man about to eat a psilocybin mushroom
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2:53 - 2:57and at the same moment get yanked up the staircase by a god.
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2:57 - 2:59Others use dancing, spinning and circling
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2:59 - 3:01to promote self-transcendence.
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3:01 - 3:04But you don't need a religion to get you through the staircase.
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3:04 - 3:07Lots of people find self-transcendence in nature.
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3:07 - 3:10Others overcome their self at raves.
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3:10 - 3:13But here's the weirdest place of all:
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3:13 - 3:15war.
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3:15 - 3:17So many books about war say the same thing,
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3:17 - 3:19that nothing brings people together
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3:19 - 3:21like war.
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3:21 - 3:24And that bringing them together opens up the possibility
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3:24 - 3:27of extraordinary self-transcendent experiences.
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3:27 - 3:29I'm going to play for you an excerpt
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3:29 - 3:31from this book by Glenn Gray.
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3:31 - 3:34Gray was a soldier in the American army in World War II.
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3:34 - 3:37And after the war he interviewed a lot of other soldiers
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3:37 - 3:39and wrote about the experience of men in battle.
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3:39 - 3:41Here's a key passage
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3:41 - 3:44where he basically describes the staircase.
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3:46 - 3:48(Video) Glenn Gray: Many veterans will admit
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3:48 - 3:51that the experience of communal effort in battle
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3:51 - 3:54has been the high point of their lives.
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3:54 - 3:57"I" passes insensibly into a "we,"
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3:57 - 3:59"my" becomes "our"
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3:59 - 4:01and individual faith
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4:01 - 4:04loses its central importance.
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4:04 - 4:06I believe that it is nothing less
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4:06 - 4:09than the assurance of immortality
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4:09 - 4:12that makes self-sacrifice at these moments
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4:12 - 4:15so relatively easy.
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4:15 - 4:18I may fall, but I do not die,
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4:18 - 4:21for that which is real in me goes forward
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4:21 - 4:23and lives on in the comrades
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4:23 - 4:25for whom I gave up my life.
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4:27 - 4:30JH: So what all of these cases have in common
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4:30 - 4:33is that the self seems to thin out, or melt away,
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4:33 - 4:35and it feels good, it feels really good,
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4:35 - 4:38in a way totally unlike anything we feel in our normal lives.
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4:38 - 4:41It feels somehow uplifting.
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4:41 - 4:44This idea that we move up was central in the writing
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4:44 - 4:47of the great French sociologist Emile Durkheim.
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4:47 - 4:49Durkheim even called us Homo duplex,
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4:49 - 4:51or two-level man.
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4:51 - 4:54The lower level he called the level of the profane.
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4:54 - 4:57Now profane is the opposite of sacred.
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4:57 - 4:59It just means ordinary or common.
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4:59 - 5:02And in our ordinary lives we exist as individuals.
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5:02 - 5:05We want to satisfy our individual desires.
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5:05 - 5:07We pursue our individual goals.
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5:07 - 5:09But sometimes something happens
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5:09 - 5:11that triggers a phase change.
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5:11 - 5:13Individuals unite
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5:13 - 5:16into a team, a movement or a nation,
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5:16 - 5:19which is far more than the sum of its parts.
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5:19 - 5:22Durkheim called this level the level of the sacred
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5:22 - 5:24because he believed that the function of religion
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5:24 - 5:26was to unite people into a group,
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5:26 - 5:29into a moral community.
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5:29 - 5:32Durkheim believed that anything that unites us
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5:32 - 5:34takes on an air of sacredness.
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5:34 - 5:36And once people circle around
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5:36 - 5:38some sacred object or value,
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5:38 - 5:41they'll then work as a team and fight to defend it.
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5:41 - 5:43Durkheim wrote
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5:43 - 5:45about a set of intense collective emotions
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5:45 - 5:48that accomplish this miracle of E pluribus unum,
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5:48 - 5:50of making a group out of individuals.
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5:50 - 5:53Think of the collective joy in Britain
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5:53 - 5:56on the day World War II ended.
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5:56 - 5:59Think of the collective anger in Tahrir Square,
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5:59 - 6:02which brought down a dictator.
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6:02 - 6:04And think of the collective grief
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6:04 - 6:06in the United States
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6:06 - 6:09that we all felt, that brought us all together,
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6:09 - 6:12after 9/11.
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6:12 - 6:15So let me summarize where we are.
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6:15 - 6:17I'm saying that the capacity for self-transcendence
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6:17 - 6:20is just a basic part of being human.
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6:20 - 6:22I'm offering the metaphor
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6:22 - 6:24of a staircase in the mind.
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6:24 - 6:26I'm saying we are Homo duplex
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6:26 - 6:29and this staircase takes us up from the profane level
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6:29 - 6:31to the level of the sacred.
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6:31 - 6:33When we climb that staircase,
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6:33 - 6:35self-interest fades away,
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6:35 - 6:37we become just much less self-interested,
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6:37 - 6:39and we feel as though we are better, nobler
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6:39 - 6:42and somehow uplifted.
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6:42 - 6:45So here's the million-dollar question
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6:45 - 6:47for social scientists like me:
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6:47 - 6:49Is the staircase
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6:49 - 6:52a feature of our evolutionary design?
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6:52 - 6:55Is it a product of natural selection,
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6:55 - 6:57like our hands?
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6:57 - 7:00Or is it a bug, a mistake in the system --
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7:00 - 7:02this religious stuff is just something
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7:02 - 7:05that happens when the wires cross in the brain --
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7:05 - 7:07Jill has a stroke and she has this religious experience,
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7:07 - 7:09it's just a mistake?
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7:09 - 7:13Well many scientists who study religion take this view.
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7:13 - 7:15The New Atheists, for example,
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7:15 - 7:17argue that religion is a set of memes,
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7:17 - 7:19sort of parasitic memes,
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7:19 - 7:21that get inside our minds
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7:21 - 7:24and make us do all kinds of crazy religious stuff,
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7:24 - 7:26self-destructive stuff, like suicide bombing.
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7:26 - 7:28And after all,
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7:28 - 7:30how could it ever be good for us
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7:30 - 7:32to lose ourselves?
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7:32 - 7:34How could it ever be adaptive
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7:34 - 7:36for any organism
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7:36 - 7:39to overcome self-interest?
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7:39 - 7:41Well let me show you.
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7:41 - 7:43In "The Descent of Man,"
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7:43 - 7:45Charles Darwin wrote a great deal
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7:45 - 7:47about the evolution of morality --
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7:47 - 7:50where did it come from, why do we have it.
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7:50 - 7:52Darwin noted that many of our virtues
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7:52 - 7:54are of very little use to ourselves,
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7:54 - 7:56but they're of great use to our groups.
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7:56 - 7:58He wrote about the scenario
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7:58 - 8:00in which two tribes of early humans
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8:00 - 8:02would have come in contact and competition.
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8:02 - 8:05He said, "If the one tribe included
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8:05 - 8:07a great number of courageous, sympathetic
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8:07 - 8:09and faithful members
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8:09 - 8:11who are always ready to aid and defend each other,
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8:11 - 8:13this tribe would succeed better
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8:13 - 8:15and conquer the other."
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8:15 - 8:17He went on to say that "Selfish and contentious people
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8:17 - 8:19will not cohere,
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8:19 - 8:21and without coherence
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8:21 - 8:23nothing can be effected."
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8:23 - 8:25In other words,
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8:25 - 8:27Charles Darwin believed
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8:27 - 8:29in group selection.
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8:29 - 8:32Now this idea has been very controversial for the last 40 years,
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8:32 - 8:35but it's about to make a major comeback this year,
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8:35 - 8:38especially after E.O. Wilson's book comes out in April,
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8:38 - 8:40making a very strong case
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8:40 - 8:42that we, and several other species,
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8:42 - 8:44are products of group selection.
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8:44 - 8:46But really the way to think about this
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8:46 - 8:48is as multilevel selection.
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8:48 - 8:50So look at it this way:
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8:50 - 8:53You've got competition going on within groups and across groups.
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8:53 - 8:56So here's a group of guys on a college crew team.
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8:56 - 8:58Within this team
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8:58 - 9:00there's competition.
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9:00 - 9:02There are guys competing with each other.
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9:02 - 9:05The slowest rowers, the weakest rowers, are going to get cut from the team.
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9:05 - 9:07And only a few of these guys are going to go on in the sport.
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9:07 - 9:10Maybe one of them will make it to the Olympics.
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9:10 - 9:12So within the team,
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9:12 - 9:15their interests are actually pitted against each other.
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9:15 - 9:17And sometimes it would be advantageous
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9:17 - 9:19for one of these guys
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9:19 - 9:21to try to sabotage the other guys.
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9:21 - 9:23Maybe he'll badmouth his chief rival
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9:23 - 9:25to the coach.
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9:25 - 9:27But while that competition is going on
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9:27 - 9:29within the boat,
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9:29 - 9:32this competition is going on across boats.
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9:32 - 9:35And once you put these guys in a boat competing with another boat,
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9:35 - 9:37now they've got no choice but to cooperate
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9:37 - 9:40because they're all in the same boat.
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9:40 - 9:42They can only win
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9:42 - 9:44if they all pull together as a team.
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9:44 - 9:46I mean, these things sound trite,
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9:46 - 9:48but they are deep evolutionary truths.
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9:48 - 9:50The main argument against group selection
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9:50 - 9:52has always been
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9:52 - 9:55that, well sure, it would be nice to have a group of cooperators,
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9:55 - 9:57but as soon as you have a group of cooperators,
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9:57 - 10:00they're just going to get taken over by free-riders,
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10:00 - 10:03individuals that are going to exploit the hard work of the others.
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10:03 - 10:05Let me illustrate this for you.
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10:05 - 10:08Suppose we've got a group of little organisms --
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10:08 - 10:11they can be bacteria, they can be hamsters; it doesn't matter what --
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10:11 - 10:14and let's suppose that this little group here, they evolved to be cooperative.
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10:14 - 10:16Well that's great. They graze, they defend each other,
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10:16 - 10:19they work together, they generate wealth.
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10:19 - 10:21And as you'll see in this simulation,
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10:21 - 10:24as they interact they gain points, as it were, they grow,
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10:24 - 10:26and when they've doubled in size, you'll see them split,
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10:26 - 10:28and that's how they reproduce and the population grows.
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10:28 - 10:31But suppose then that one of them mutates.
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10:31 - 10:33There's a mutation in the gene
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10:33 - 10:35and one of them mutates to follow a selfish strategy.
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10:35 - 10:37It takes advantage of the others.
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10:37 - 10:40And so when a green interacts with a blue,
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10:40 - 10:42you'll see the green gets larger and the blue gets smaller.
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10:42 - 10:44So here's how things play out.
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10:44 - 10:46We start with just one green,
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10:46 - 10:48and as it interacts
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10:48 - 10:51it gains wealth or points or food.
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10:51 - 10:54And in short order, the cooperators are done for.
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10:54 - 10:57The free-riders have taken over.
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10:57 - 11:00If a group cannot solve the free-rider problem
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11:00 - 11:03then it cannot reap the benefits of cooperation
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11:03 - 11:06and group selection cannot get started.
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11:06 - 11:08But there are solutions to the free-rider problem.
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11:08 - 11:10It's not that hard a problem.
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11:10 - 11:13In fact, nature has solved it many, many times.
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11:13 - 11:15And nature's favorite solution
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11:15 - 11:18is to put everyone in the same boat.
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11:18 - 11:20For example,
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11:20 - 11:23why is it that the mitochondria in every cell
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11:23 - 11:25has its own DNA,
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11:25 - 11:28totally separate from the DNA in the nucleus?
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11:28 - 11:30It's because they used to be
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11:30 - 11:32separate free-living bacteria
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11:32 - 11:34and they came together
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11:34 - 11:36and became a superorganism.
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11:36 - 11:39Somehow or other -- maybe one swallowed another; we'll never know exactly why --
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11:39 - 11:41but once they got a membrane around them,
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11:41 - 11:43they were all in the same membrane,
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11:43 - 11:46now all the wealth-created division of labor,
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11:46 - 11:48all the greatness created by cooperation,
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11:48 - 11:50stays locked inside the membrane
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11:50 - 11:53and we've got a superorganism.
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11:53 - 11:55And now let's rerun the simulation
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11:55 - 11:57putting one of these superorganisms
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11:57 - 12:00into a population of free-riders, of defectors, of cheaters
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12:00 - 12:03and look what happens.
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12:03 - 12:05A superorganism can basically take what it wants.
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12:05 - 12:08It's so big and powerful and efficient
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12:08 - 12:10that it can take resources
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12:10 - 12:14from the greens, from the defectors, the cheaters.
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12:14 - 12:16And pretty soon the whole population
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12:16 - 12:19is actually composed of these new superorganisms.
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12:19 - 12:21What I've shown you here
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12:21 - 12:23is sometimes called a major transition
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12:23 - 12:26in evolutionary history.
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12:26 - 12:28Darwin's laws don't change,
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12:28 - 12:31but now there's a new kind of player on the field
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12:31 - 12:34and things begin to look very different.
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12:34 - 12:36Now this transition was not a one-time freak of nature
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12:36 - 12:38that just happened with some bacteria.
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12:38 - 12:40It happened again
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12:40 - 12:42about 120 or a 140 million years ago
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12:42 - 12:45when some solitary wasps
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12:45 - 12:47began creating little simple, primitive
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12:47 - 12:50nests, or hives.
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12:50 - 12:53Once several wasps were all together in the same hive,
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12:53 - 12:55they had no choice but to cooperate,
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12:55 - 12:57because pretty soon they were locked into competition
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12:57 - 12:59with other hives.
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12:59 - 13:01And the most cohesive hives won,
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13:01 - 13:03just as Darwin said.
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13:03 - 13:05These early wasps
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13:05 - 13:07gave rise to the bees and the ants
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13:07 - 13:09that have covered the world
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13:09 - 13:11and changed the biosphere.
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13:11 - 13:13And it happened again,
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13:13 - 13:15even more spectacularly,
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13:15 - 13:17in the last half-million years
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13:17 - 13:19when our own ancestors
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13:19 - 13:21became cultural creatures,
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13:21 - 13:24they came together around a hearth or a campfire,
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13:24 - 13:26they divided labor,
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13:26 - 13:29they began painting their bodies, they spoke their own dialects,
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13:29 - 13:32and eventually they worshiped their own gods.
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13:32 - 13:34Once they were all in the same tribe,
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13:34 - 13:37they could keep the benefits of cooperation locked inside.
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13:37 - 13:39And they unlocked the most powerful force
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13:39 - 13:41ever known on this planet,
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13:41 - 13:43which is human cooperation --
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13:43 - 13:45a force for construction
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13:45 - 13:48and destruction.
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13:48 - 13:50Of course, human groups are nowhere near as cohesive
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13:50 - 13:52as beehives.
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13:52 - 13:55Human groups may look like hives for brief moments,
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13:55 - 13:57but they tend to then break apart.
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13:57 - 14:00We're not locked into cooperation the way bees and ants are.
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14:00 - 14:02In fact, often,
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14:02 - 14:04as we've seen happen in a lot of the Arab Spring revolts,
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14:04 - 14:08often those divisions are along religious lines.
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14:08 - 14:11Nonetheless, when people do come together
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14:11 - 14:13and put themselves all into the same movement,
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14:13 - 14:16they can move mountains.
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14:16 - 14:19Look at the people in these photos I've been showing you.
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14:19 - 14:21Do you think they're there
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14:21 - 14:23pursuing their self-interest?
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14:23 - 14:26Or are they pursuing communal interest,
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14:26 - 14:29which requires them to lose themselves
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14:29 - 14:33and become simply a part of a whole?
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14:34 - 14:36Okay, so that was my Talk
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14:36 - 14:38delivered in the standard TED way.
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14:38 - 14:40And now I'm going to give the whole Talk over again
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14:40 - 14:42in three minutes
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14:42 - 14:45in a more full-spectrum sort of way.
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14:45 - 14:47(Music)
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14:47 - 14:49(Video) Jonathan Haidt: We humans have many varieties
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14:49 - 14:51of religious experience,
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14:51 - 14:53as William James explained.
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14:53 - 14:56One of the most common is climbing the secret staircase
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14:56 - 14:58and losing ourselves.
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14:58 - 15:00The staircase takes us
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15:00 - 15:03from the experience of life as profane or ordinary
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15:03 - 15:05upwards to the experience of life as sacred,
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15:05 - 15:07or deeply interconnected.
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15:07 - 15:09We are Homo duplex,
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15:09 - 15:11as Durkheim explained.
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15:11 - 15:13And we are Homo duplex
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15:13 - 15:15because we evolved by multilevel selection,
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15:15 - 15:18as Darwin explained.
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15:18 - 15:20I can't be certain if the staircase is an adaptation
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15:20 - 15:22rather than a bug,
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15:22 - 15:24but if it is an adaptation,
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15:24 - 15:26then the implications are profound.
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15:26 - 15:28If it is an adaptation,
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15:28 - 15:31then we evolved to be religious.
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15:31 - 15:33I don't mean that we evolved
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15:33 - 15:35to join gigantic organized religions.
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15:35 - 15:37Those things came along too recently.
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15:37 - 15:39I mean that we evolved
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15:39 - 15:41to see sacredness all around us
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15:41 - 15:43and to join with others into teams
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15:43 - 15:45and circle around sacred objects,
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15:45 - 15:47people and ideas.
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15:47 - 15:50This is why politics is so tribal.
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15:50 - 15:53Politics is partly profane, it's partly about self-interest,
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15:53 - 15:56but politics is also about sacredness.
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15:56 - 15:58It's about joining with others
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15:58 - 16:00to pursue moral ideas.
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16:00 - 16:03It's about the eternal struggle between good and evil,
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16:03 - 16:06and we all believe we're on the good team.
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16:06 - 16:08And most importantly,
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16:08 - 16:10if the staircase is real,
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16:10 - 16:12it explains the persistent undercurrent
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16:12 - 16:14of dissatisfaction in modern life.
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16:14 - 16:17Because human beings are, to some extent,
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16:17 - 16:19hivish creatures like bees.
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16:19 - 16:22We're bees. We busted out of the hive during the Enlightenment.
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16:22 - 16:25We broke down the old institutions
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16:25 - 16:27and brought liberty to the oppressed.
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16:27 - 16:29We unleashed Earth-changing creativity
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16:29 - 16:32and generated vast wealth and comfort.
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16:32 - 16:34Nowadays we fly around
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16:34 - 16:36like individual bees exulting in our freedom.
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16:36 - 16:38But sometimes we wonder:
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16:38 - 16:40Is this all there is?
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16:40 - 16:42What should I do with my life?
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16:42 - 16:44What's missing?
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16:44 - 16:46What's missing is that we are Homo duplex,
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16:46 - 16:49but modern, secular society was built
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16:49 - 16:52to satisfy our lower, profane selves.
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16:52 - 16:55It's really comfortable down here on the lower level.
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16:55 - 16:58Come, have a seat in my home entertainment center.
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16:58 - 17:00One great challenge of modern life
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17:00 - 17:03is to find the staircase amid all the clutter
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17:03 - 17:06and then to do something good and noble
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17:06 - 17:09once you climb to the top.
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17:09 - 17:12I see this desire in my students at the University of Virginia.
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17:12 - 17:14They all want to find a cause or calling
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17:14 - 17:16that they can throw themselves into.
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17:16 - 17:19They're all searching for their staircase.
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17:19 - 17:21And that gives me hope
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17:21 - 17:23because people are not purely selfish.
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17:23 - 17:25Most people long to overcome pettiness
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17:25 - 17:27and become part of something larger.
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17:27 - 17:30And this explains the extraordinary resonance
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17:30 - 17:32of this simple metaphor
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17:32 - 17:35conjured up nearly 400 years ago.
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17:35 - 17:37"No man is an island
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17:37 - 17:39entire of itself.
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17:39 - 17:42Every man is a piece of the continent,
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17:42 - 17:45a part of the main."
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17:45 - 17:47JH: Thank you.
-
17:47 - 17:55(Applause)
- Title:
- Religion, evolution, and the ecstasy of self-transcendence
- Speaker:
- Jonathan Haidt
- Description:
-
Psychologist Jonathan Haidt asks a simple, but difficult question: why do we search for self-transcendence? Why do we attempt to lose ourselves? In a tour through the science of evolution by group selection, he proposes a provocative answer.
- Video Language:
- English
- Team:
- closed TED
- Project:
- TEDTalks
- Duration:
- 17:56
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