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People from Here
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Welcome back to People from Here.
What we want to tell you today
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is the story of two young people,
of two young people with high hopes.
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There is Adelina,
a brilliant lawyer who worked
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at a prestigious legal firm in Milan.
Then there is Ettore,
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an industrial chemist.
The future can only smile
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upon Adelina and Ettore.
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Actually,
their future will be more turbulent
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than they could have ever imagined.
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In fact,
in 1938 Ettore
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and Adelina are Jewish.
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On September 18th,
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from the balcony
of Trieste's town hall,
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Benito Mussolini announced
for the first time the Racial Laws
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for the defense of the race.
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The world of those two young people
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suddenly collapses under their feet.
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We will tell this story
about Ettore and Adelina
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on the eve of the day.
We will tell it with the son
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of Ettore and Adelina,
Daniele Finzi, who in 2011,
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decided to donate
his parents letters and documents
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to The Archives of Pieve Santo Stefano.
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Shortly we will also discuss why
this choice was made.
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Now I would like to start
with September 1938.
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with Mussolini's announcement
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of the laws for the defense of the race.
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Ettore and Adelina immediately started
to understand that there wasn't
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a future for them in that country.
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Deciding to leave was
was a difficult decision to make.
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It was a difficult decision,
but one that will save their lives.
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Yes, Ettore Finzi, my father,
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was very knowledgable about history.
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Also because he knew German very well.
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He had two aunts, aunt Genie
and aunt Lazigudita Gentiluomo,
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who both lived in Vienna.
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He had followed
all the Nazi antisemitism
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up to March 1938.
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So, in July 1938,
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when the Race Manifesto was published,
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he didn't expect it.
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He knew what it was about,
although he hoped
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that Italy would be
a little different than Germany.
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And my father, more than my mother,
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made quick and immediate decisions.
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He was also very intuitive.
He had known my mom only a few months,
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and he returns
to these months in April 1938.
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It was love at first sight,
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and because of the Race Manifesto
and the Racial Laws,
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they decided to get married.
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They were married in Milan
on December 1, 1938.
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In 1938 and now we arrive in 1939.
- Yes.
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An ominous date for many.
- Yes.
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Very unjust, but there is a turning point.
- There is a...
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Ettore and Adelina decide to leave.
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Or rather, how do they depart?
Because, in a way,
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they leave informed.
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Yes and no.
The problem is immediate
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and that of money.
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Because the White Paper of the British,
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from perhaps February
or March of 1939,
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had mandated
a total of 75,000 Jews
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that could enter Palestine for five years.
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However, to qualify to enter,
every person needed to have 1,000 stars.
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Because, like we said, they had chosen.
- To go to Palestine.
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The goal was Palestine.
- Yes.
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The choice was not a coincidence,
because my father had also thought
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about Latin America.
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But the idea of going
to Palestine was because it was nearby.
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He was from Trieste so it was close.
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He also hoped his parents could join him.
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In any case,
the issue of money was really
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a huge problem
because they didn't have any.
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So, thanks to the lawyer Gianni Morandi,
who was the owner of the firm
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where my mom worked,
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they went to Zurich for their honeymoon.
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Then they went to Lugano
to gather a large sum
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of money from the lawyer's clients.
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And I still remember two leather bags
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with thousands of stars inside.
They were gold little stars.
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At this point, they reach Palestine.
A tangent about Palestine.
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The State of Israel still didn't exist.
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There wasn't any money to protect them.
Therefore, they had to start from scratch.
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Yes, and so, they started all over again
from January to April 1, 1939.
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They arrived in Haifa on April 6th.
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Yes, because as of 1922,
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the British controlled Palestine.
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There were Palestinian Arabs.
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The Jewish Palestinians were organized
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by the Yishuv,
who were more concerned
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with the kibbutz,
and wanted to dedicate themselves
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to agriculture, etc.
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But the foundation,
the political one,
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was led by the Jewish agency.
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The Jewish agency was, well,
I'll give you an example.
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Okay,
so they arrived in Tel Aviv
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on April 7th.
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Twenty days later they were
in school learning modern Hebrew,
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because there were various Jews
in Tel Aviv
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from every part of Europe.
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So it was necessary
to learn this common language.
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There was some organization,
but there were a lot of problems.
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In any case, where they mentally find...
- Ah yes.
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this small amount of protection.
However, they had to start...
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Yes, they had to restart.
- from scratch.
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On the other hand, however,
there was a lot of bitterness
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that was left behind by the fact
of having to abandon...
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Yes.
- Italy.
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Having to leave Italy was stressful.
- Yes.
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In regard to this,
I will also read an excerpt
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from the letters
that have been donated to the archive.
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Diaries in which Ettore specifically tells
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about what he was feeling shortly after
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the time in which he abandoned Italy.
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We will read this excerpt:
"When I left Italy four months ago,
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"feeling more disgusted by the burden
of having to leave the country
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"than for the imminent danger,
many of my colleagues
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"and friends were quick
to express to me their discontent
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"about what was happening.
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"Through their conversations,
I felt they knew about condolences
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"and they ended up
only making me withdraw.
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"They were whispered conversations,
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"only because they knew me
and they valued me.
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"For many, being an example against
the persecution of Jews not being born
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"in Italy, could also be considered fair,
because it is understood that they came
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"to the country to make a fortune
by going behind other's backs.
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"They had some expert political views.
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"The Fascist government's right
to persecute people that it had let into
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"the country was generally recognized."
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So Ettore felt betrayed by Italy?
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Without a doubt.
Also because, as I was saying prior,
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my father was from Trieste.
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From his father, my grandfather,
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he also received an irredentist
and nationalist upbringing.
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Trieste had always been divided
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between people from Trieste, Austria...
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Let's say Austriacanti.
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Rather than irredentists,
who loved Italy, the Italian culture,
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the Italian language,
like my grandfather and the Slovenians.
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He had received this upbringing
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and so he was an irredentist nationalist.
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Additionally, he was a genius official,
and he felt like an Italian.
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He loved Italy
and he felt betrayed by this terrible law.
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In addition, in Ettore's letters,
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in this text,
it also draws attention
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to a responsibility
by the Italian people themselves
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for what was happening.
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He writes:
"The political maturity
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"of the Italian people
is apparently that of government rule
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"that it has and that it deserves."
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There is a precise responsibility
by the people.
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Well, the Italian people's problem...
(Laughter)
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(Interview talking)
- Like saying living today like yesterday.
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In other words,
the lack of personal responsibility
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and this...
Well yes, accepting anything,
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like a leader or a guide,
that which is of
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an uglier appearance, if you will.
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And that Trieste...
Not coincidentally Mussolini
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and September 18, 1938,
where they were
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at the Unity of Italy Square
to present the Racial Laws.
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Not only because of
the nationalism that was there,
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but because Trieste was
a very multiethnic, multicultural city.
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There were more than two centuries
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in which ethnic groups were diverse.
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They coexisted.
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But at the very moment
in which Mussolini showed his cruelty
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towards Jews, who were Italian,
and felt as such,
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and had also fought
for Italy during the First World War...
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At the point,
everyone was inclined
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to accept the rule of Fascism.
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We return to Ettore and Adelina,
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who, because of their decisions,
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leave the Second World War behind,
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in which the persecution of Jews
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and the holocaust are about to start.
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They leave behind the errors of the war,
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however, as it is said,
they face a life
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that is not easy.
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Like we said,
Adelina was a lawyer with a great career.
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She finds herself having
to start her work up again.
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Yes, because the main difficulty was
a work shortage.
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There was an excess of workers
(Laughter)
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from Tel Aviv.
And then, there were few jobs
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or they were completely insecure.
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Another big problem was
a housing shortage.
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So much so that my parents were forced
to live with a family,
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with a Polish family in an apartment.
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Above all,
the main difficulty was the work shortage.
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Also because the two bags
of the two thousand stars were not
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to be touched at all.
My father was not flexible.
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Then my mom,
as long as my father remained in Tel Aviv
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until August 23, 1944,
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when he went to work
at the British oil refinery...
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(Interviewer Talking)
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No, he was also with my mom
because they then had my sister first,
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and then I was born in 1942.
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So when my father left,
he felt the need
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to work to support the family.
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He also liked the idea
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of having money to freely spend.
(Laughter)
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As mentioned, your mother was liberated...
- Yes, liberated.
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in Palestine.
- Yes.
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Your father Ettore, on the other hand,
had to move abroad to Persia
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because, meanwhile, he found work
with an oil company.
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So two lovers
who find themselves far apart
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in foreign lands,
and the only point of contact
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between these two people becomes
the writing,
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the letters
that will then become so important
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for documenting, for their memories.
- Yes.
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In fact, my father accepted
this two year contract
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with the Iranian company.
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He was in Abadan in Persia.
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And indeed it was a military zone.
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He did his work there
as an industrial chemist.
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Naturally, he had to detach
and leave his wife
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and his children in Tel Aviv.
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Then, although very tired,
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every evening my mom wrote
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and reported what had happened
during her workday,
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because she had found work
with a company that was part
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of the Tel Aviv pharmaceutical industry.
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After then being fired,
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she went to work at a house to iron.
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So, she could do any job.
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She reported with great ability,
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descriptive, careful about everything
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that went on during the day.
Rather, my father sometimes wrote letters
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with extensive description.
He explained to her a bit about his duty,
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weather problems because it was very hot,
relations with the British
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and with the local population
that was in truly devastating conditions.
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They were letters that,
among other things...
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If you permit me a tangent.
- (Interviewer) Of course.
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They were things one absolutely knew
but I didn't know
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the letters even existed.
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Then perhaps we can also elaborate
on how they were found.
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Then also about how the decision
to publish them came about.
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Let's go back.
We had said that while Ettore
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and Adelina were in Palestine,
their children were born.
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Yes, my sister...
- You were born
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and your sister Ana was born.
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It is fitting that the future
of these two children was often focused on
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in these letters that Ettore
and Adelina exchange.
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I would like to read another
particularly significant passage
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that is again written by Ettore
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from Abadan in February 23, 1945:
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"If on one hand, the war tends
to be nearing its end, on the other,
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"the situation in Palestine
is taking a favorable turn for us.
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"These days, I am overthinking
and continuously thinking
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"about the problem and worried,
not so much about our personal future,
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"but the future of our children.
I feel irresistibly taken towards
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"a solution that,
although never once explored,
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"today seems inevitable to me.
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"Perhaps in a year's time,
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"we will find the need
to return to Italy."
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"Then they will become
one hundred percent Italians."
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Probably if your father could have chosen,
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he would have never wanted
to return to Italy.
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I would have said the same.
But, quite the opposite
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because my father,
due to having been betrayed by Italy,
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deeply desired to return to Italy.
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Apart from the experience in Abadan,
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also because life
in Palestine was truly very hard
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and very difficult,
because of the work problem
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and the problem of the lack of apartments.
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However, we can't forget
that the attention
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from the Palestinian Arabs
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and the British made life difficult.
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If we could return back in time.
- Yes.
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In September 1940,
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Tel Aviv was bombed
by Italian planes, right.
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Yes.
- They bombed Tel Aviv
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and it seems like there were one hundred
and fifty two deaths.
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So life was very hard.
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Another tangent.
In other words,
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one of the big problems was also food.
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For example,
my sister and I went to the gan,
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which was like kindergarten.
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To help you understand, at lunch they used
to give us half an egg to eat.
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On the other hand,
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while facing this situation,
there continuously remained
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the hope of returning to Italy.
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And how did Adelina live
with the hope of returning?
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I will read another significant passage:
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"I will never ask who is taking that step.
Here I undoubtedly feel hesitant
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"by instinct and by force of tradition.
And I won't ever ask myself,
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"not only out of obedience,
but because, more than anything else,
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"I am concerned
about doing everything possible
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"for the future of our children."
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(Interviewer) It's like saying,
she was also willing to do her part.
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There was a sense of pride
of returning to Italy,
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that country that had dismissed them,
in order to guarantee
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a future for you children.
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Here there is a...
(Laughter)
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There are many letters.
In any case, when my father says
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that they will become
one hundred percent Italians,
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he also suggested
to my mom the idea
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of us converting to Catholicism,
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because we were Jews.
- (Interviewer) Of course.
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Then, meanwhile,
the Finzi of Trieste were
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almost completely assimilated.
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That is to say,
they went to the synagogue twice a year.
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Instead, my mom was
from a much more orthodox family,
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They came from the Parrdo lineage,
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which was a very important Iberian family.
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Parrdo which used to be Prado.
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They came from Spain after the expulsion.
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So my father proposes this idea
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of converting to Catholicism.
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in order for his children to resolve...
- (Interviewer) To become...
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Yes, to become entirely Italian,
even as a religion.
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However my mom...
Here it says that she was reluctant.
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Not because she was personally orthodox,
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but because,
when it was known what was happening
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in Europe with the extermination camps
or some other difficult situation,
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they absolutely didn't know
where my paternal
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and maternal grandparents were.
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However, the news arrived,
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even betraying the origin and...
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(Interviewer) It was quite heavy.
- Yes, very heavy.
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Speaking of, how did the news
about the war arrive meanwhile
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it continued in Europe?
Was there just an awareness
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of what was happening?
Was there an awareness
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of the existence
of the extermination camps?
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Above all, how did they also live
with these dual feelings?
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Because, on the one hand,
there was this hope
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of being able to return
to a normal life in Italy one day.
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On the other hand,
there was a lot of fear
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also for the fate of loved ones.
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They knew everything.
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Both about the Jewish agency
and about the British.
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The news arrived quite detailed.
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I don't want to forget
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that there was a noteworthy group
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of young Jews
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that were part of the Jewish brigade.
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They fought alongside the British
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and they also fought in Italy.
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Then in all of Europe.
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They were the ones that said
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that they made it known in great deal
what was going to happen.
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So, they knew about everything
that was coming
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to Italy and Europe.
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The concerns were precisely
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that my paternal grandparents,
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who later died in Auschwitz,
didn't...
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The last official news was transmitted
by a type of telegram
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by the Red Cross
in July of 1943.
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My father knew absolutely nothing.
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My mom didn't know either.
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She knew that her parents were in hiding.
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Her brother was in Switzerland.
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But they had absolutely no news.
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They couldn't say or write anything,
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because the mail was altered.
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Both the outgoing
and the incoming mail was altered.
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I found that some of the letters...
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(Interviewer talking)
- Yes, details.
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They were deleted
by the person that made the changes.
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So, dad needed to be attentive,
because they were altered by the British.
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They were altered by the Persians.
(Laughter)
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Then they were altered
on arrival in Palestine.
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So, they were...
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In this situation,
they also found themselves
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in a state
of uncertainty being far from Europe.
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Being far
from what was happening in Europe.
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Far from the war.
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For a moment, Adelina perhaps had hoped,
from what Ledi writes,
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that her family would have an advantage
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over the immense tragedy
that afflicted the Jews of Europe.
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That they would all find themselves
reunited upon their return.
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There was almost this illusion, this hope.
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Having high hopes is often the last idea.
They did have hope.
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They hadn't had detailed news,
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even though then my dad's brother,
who was...
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He was a doctor who lived in Bologna,
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but in the mountain area
of Monghidoro and Loiano.
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He knew
that his parents had been arrested
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and had been deported.
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However, he had not communicated anything.
Even though assuming,
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that they went to Auschwitz,
there could have always been
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the hope of their return
Therefore, they hoped.
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Unfortunately, however,
the terrible news arrived.
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They also arrived in Palestine while
the war by now...
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It was over.
- By now it was over.
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And like you said,
the terrible news arrived by mail.
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News so terrible
that Adelina cannot even transcribe them
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in a letter to Ettore.
She writes:
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"My dear, unfortunately,
the dreary news has arrived.
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"I am sending you the letter
because I don't have the courage
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"to write about it."
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It's terrible.
Unfortunately, they were effects
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(Interviewer) of what just happened
in the war in Europe.
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(Daniele) In a letter separate
from the international cross.
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(Interviewer) Maybe in that exact moment
is when Ettore and Adelina understood
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what they had escaped from?
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Yes without a doubt.
I will also tell you
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that when dad had
the great idea of going to Palestine,
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everyone criticized him;
friends, parents, brothers, the sister,
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because they said:
"You are always pessimistic".
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He would rather have wanted them all
to also come with him.
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However,
we can say that he expected it,
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also because the war
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in Europe ended on May 8, 1945.
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The news gets to him in August.
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Given that months go by
where he doesn't receive
-
positive news,
he feared for the lives of his parents.
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Excuse me, if you allow me...
(Interviewer) Sure.
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But before the communication
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about the deaths of his parents,
-
he received communication from Sweden
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that said his sister had been saved.
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Then my aunt Yolanda Clara was part
of that group of prisoners
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that were moved
from Auschwitz in December 1944.
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They were moved west
because the Red Army was coming.
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Since they didn't want them to see
-
a mass of prisoners in Auschwitz,
they were moved.
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She was then liberated
in the north of Ravensbrück
-
in April 1945.
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She was then transferred
to Sweden to recover.
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We have said that at this point,
the war had ended and Ettore and Adelina
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along with their children decide
to return to Italy.
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How difficult was it once again to start
from scratch because they actually had
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to start from scratch.
-
Ah yes.
It was difficult.
-
My father's brother helped him obtain
a job at his work in Sansepolcro.
-
He spoke with Mr. Marco Vittoni,
who said:
-
"I am willing to hire your brother
because he is a chemist.
-
"Also, I want a change of pace
for the company, etc".
-
But when we arrived in Italy in May 1946,
-
with a short stop in Bologna
and then to Parma
-
with my maternal grandparents,
-
and then to Sansepolcro precisely
-
in November of 1946,
we had absolutely nothing.
-
And there was nothing...
(Laughter)
-
(Interviewer) Without a doubt,
a country in devastation.
-
Yes, a country in devastation.
-
I remember the pathway with holes.
I remember the Tower of Berta Square
-
in a pile of ruins.
- The Tower of Berta Square was destroyed.
-
I repeat, it was also a problem to eat.
-
I remember my dad rented
a furnished apartment
-
in Saint Claire Square
in which the conditions were really...
-
Insecure.
- Very insecure.
-
But they were young
and they wanted to start over.
-
There was my sister and myself.
-
They wanted to put a painful time
-
of their lives behind them and start over.
-
You have previously already answered
that there was resentment towards
-
that country that made them escape
and also towards those friends
-
that...
- No.
-
were against the idea
of the Racial Laws.
-
No, absolutely not.
-
Other than it being something
that is part of our DNA,
-
resentment is useless.
-
I was taught
that it's best to let things go,
-
move forward,
-
have the will to start again,
and to overcome difficulties.
-
Not resentment.
-
I never heard my father
nor my mother speak ill
-
of Italians.
-
Yes, it was upsetting to have lost.
-
(Interviewer talking)
- Yes.
-
To having lost parents.
To having lost years of work.
-
My mom could not return to work
in Milan because there was no way
-
to find a home.
-
In 2011,
the epistolary
-
of Ettore Finzi and Adelina was donated
-
to the Pieve diary archives.
It's awarded the Premio Pieve.
-
First and foremost, how were you able
to find these letters again,
-
because they were made public
by the decision of donating them.
-
My father died on June 18, 2002.
-
He lived in an apartment
in Parma and in August,
-
I was ready to let go
of the apartment.
-
By chance, I found a bag in his office,
-
a leather one with straps
that holds documents.
-
There were letters inside
this document holder.
-
And there were two notebooks,
black ones with a red border
-
that were used in the past,
and inside was his diary.
-
I understood right away
because I have done historical research
-
for many years, so I understood
it was something interesting.
-
I found it strange
that my father never told me anything,
-
because he didn't say to me:
"Listen,
-
"there are letters and diaries".
-
And so I took them all to my house,
to my office and I left them there
-
for a year, a year and a half.
-
Then I gradually began
to read them with a bit of fear.
-
Because with diaries and letters...
- (Interviewer) One will find...
-
always find something intimate.
Then I think in my family,
-
nothing would ever be talked about.
No one had ever commented,
-
or made any references.
-
Then I gradually began
to transcribe these letters.
-
I can't tell you how I did so,
because they were written...
-
(Interviewer) No doubt handwritten.
-
Yes, handwritten with a fountain pen,
on tissue paper,
-
because back then it was airmail paper.
-
In short,
it was a type of job
-
that strained the eyes.
-
In any case, I did this transcription job
of the diary, of the letters, etc.
-
I had the idea of publishing
-
the copy or, in other words,
the full version
-
of this diary, of these letters.
-
Just to be certain...
I was already collaborating
-
with the diary archives
for some time for my own research
-
in the topics of Rinisci, Paganini, etc.
-
Just to be certain,
I went to Pieve Santo Stefano
-
and I had the volume in hand.
-
It was Cristina Cangi,
who you will meet.
-
And she asked me:
"What is that professor"?
-
"It's work that I did".
- "Why don't you submit it for the award"?
-
I said I really had not thought
about wanting to publish it.
-
Then I start reading
some very interesting things,
-
and then I submit it.
-
They asked me for the archive
and also for the letters,
-
but I wasn't going to do that.
-
It's possible
to read this publication
-
that is titled Transparenti,
in which the documentation
-
is presented,
and published by Il Mulino.
-
Our arrangement time has ended,
although we would like to talk for hours
-
about this story that is a bit similar,
by certain passages and elements,
-
to the story
of many other families.
-
Also similar to the province of Arezzo.
-
Perhaps there will be a way
to talk more about it in the future.
-
Thank you Daniele Finzi.
-
Thanks to all of you
who have followed our episode,
-
a special episode
that was made possible
-
in collaboration
with The Archives of Pieve Santo Stefano.
-
I naturally thank The Archives.
-
The archives
for this episode were made available
-
by Nadia Frulli.
-
Thank you to all of you
for watching the program.