Why rumors about vaccines spread -- and how to rebuild trust
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0:02 - 0:04I study rumors.
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0:04 - 0:05Not tabloid gossip
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0:05 - 0:09or the kind of rumors
that are making stock markets crash -- -
0:09 - 0:10or soar --
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0:10 - 0:13but the kind of rumors
that affect your health ... -
0:13 - 0:15and the world's health.
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0:15 - 0:18Like eating a lot of garlic
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0:18 - 0:19or drinking a lot of water
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0:19 - 0:22is going to help
protect us from coronavirus -- -
0:22 - 0:23if only.
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0:24 - 0:27Rumors have a bad reputation.
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0:27 - 0:29They're seen as not fact,
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0:29 - 0:30wrong,
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0:30 - 0:32or "just a rumor."
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0:33 - 0:36But I've studied rumors for years,
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0:36 - 0:39and one thing I've learned
is that they all have a story, -
0:39 - 0:42and often, an important story.
-
0:42 - 0:48One of the most moving or alarming
rumor episodes that I investigated -
0:48 - 0:51was in northern Nigeria.
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0:51 - 0:54I was working with UNICEF's
Global Immunization programme. -
0:55 - 0:59And it wasn't the rumors themselves
that I found so alarming; -
0:59 - 1:02it was the global impact of those rumors.
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1:03 - 1:05The rumors were suspecting
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1:05 - 1:09that the polio vaccine
was actually a contraceptive. -
1:09 - 1:12It was controlling populations --
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1:12 - 1:15or maybe it caused AIDS.
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1:16 - 1:20No, no, maybe it's the CIA
spying on them or counting them. -
1:20 - 1:26I mean, why else would they have people
knocking on their door again and again -
1:26 - 1:29with the same polio vaccine?
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1:29 - 1:32When children were dying of measles,
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1:32 - 1:35no one was coming with measles vaccines.
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1:38 - 1:41This wasn't about getting the facts right.
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1:41 - 1:43This was about trust.
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1:43 - 1:45It was about broken trust.
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1:45 - 1:48Why so much distrust?
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1:48 - 1:52It wasn't the mothers who were
particularly distrusting, actually. -
1:52 - 1:54It was the local leaders,
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1:54 - 1:55the religious leaders,
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1:55 - 1:57the local political leaders.
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1:57 - 2:00It was the governor of the state of Kano
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2:00 - 2:02who decided to boycott
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2:02 - 2:07the entire polio eradication
effort in that state ... -
2:07 - 2:10for 11 months.
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2:10 - 2:12Why such distrust?
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2:12 - 2:15Well, it was 2003.
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2:15 - 2:18It was two years after 9/11.
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2:18 - 2:22And they were convinced that the West,
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2:22 - 2:24and particularly the United States,
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2:24 - 2:26was at war with Muslims.
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2:26 - 2:28And they knew that the West,
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2:28 - 2:31and particularly the United States,
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2:31 - 2:32was a huge supporter --
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2:32 - 2:34and funder --
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2:34 - 2:37of the global polio
eradication initiative. -
2:37 - 2:38They had their reasoning.
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2:40 - 2:43That lack of trust,
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2:43 - 2:46that "just a rumor or two"
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2:46 - 2:52cost the polio eradication program
500 million dollars -
2:52 - 2:54to reset the clock,
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2:54 - 2:58to regain the progress lost
during those 11 months -
2:58 - 2:59and beyond.
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2:59 - 3:06The Nigerian strain of the polio virus
traveled to over 20 countries, -
3:06 - 3:07as far as Indonesia.
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3:09 - 3:11The cost of a rumor.
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3:12 - 3:16The Nigeria episode was one
of many episodes that I investigated -
3:16 - 3:17when I was with UNICEF
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3:17 - 3:22and earned the title of the "director
of UNICEF's fire department." -
3:23 - 3:24(Laughs)
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3:24 - 3:28We -- at that point I realized
I never really had enough time. -
3:28 - 3:32I was too busy putting out the fires
and not enough time to understand -
3:32 - 3:36what was driving
not just the individual episodes, -
3:36 - 3:41but why was there an epidemic
of these happening around the world. -
3:41 - 3:45I left UNICEF and went back to research --
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3:45 - 3:47applied research --
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3:47 - 3:54and I set up in 2010 what I called
the Vaccine Confidence Project -
3:54 - 3:58at the London School of Hygiene
and Tropical Medicine. -
3:58 - 4:01I convened anthropologists,
epidemiologists, -
4:01 - 4:03psychologists,
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4:03 - 4:06digital media specialists
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4:06 - 4:08and mathematical modelers.
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4:08 - 4:11We set ourselves the task
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4:11 - 4:15to investigate historic episodes of rumors
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4:15 - 4:17and their impacts,
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4:17 - 4:21from trying to figure out
what were the early signals, -
4:21 - 4:23what were the amplifying factors
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4:23 - 4:25and the impacts,
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4:25 - 4:26how did they get traction,
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4:26 - 4:30so we could start to understand
what we should be looking for, -
4:30 - 4:32how we could help governments
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4:32 - 4:37and immunization programs
be more alert and responsive -
4:37 - 4:40to early signals of problems.
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4:40 - 4:43It was an early warning system.
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4:43 - 4:47In 2015, we developed
a vaccine confidence index. -
4:47 - 4:54It's a survey trying to investigate
to what extent do people agree -
4:54 - 4:57or disagree that vaccines are important,
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4:57 - 4:59they're safe, they're effective --
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4:59 - 5:00they work --
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5:00 - 5:04and somehow they're compatible
with my religious beliefs. -
5:04 - 5:08We've run this with over hundreds
of thousands of people around the world, -
5:08 - 5:14trying to get our finger on the pulse
of confidence and trust, -
5:14 - 5:20but also, more importantly, looking
at when that trust goes up or down, -
5:20 - 5:23because we want to see
when it starts to decline, -
5:23 - 5:26that's the time to jump in,
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5:26 - 5:30to get there before there's a crisis
like the Nigerian one. -
5:32 - 5:37We also set up 24-7 media and social media
monitoring around the world -- -
5:37 - 5:38multilanguage --
-
5:38 - 5:43listening for what's going on
in vaccine conversations, -
5:43 - 5:47trying to pick up early concerns
or changes in sentiment -
5:47 - 5:49that we should be paying attention to.
-
5:49 - 5:54We've created an ecosystem
of different types of information -
5:54 - 5:56to try to understand:
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5:56 - 6:00what are the public thinking
and how can we engage? -
6:00 - 6:02We look for early signals.
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6:02 - 6:03When we find one,
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6:03 - 6:07we have a global network of collaborators
in a number of countries -
6:07 - 6:10who have more local
intelligence in that setting -
6:10 - 6:11to try to understand --
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6:12 - 6:14is this signal misinformation,
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6:14 - 6:17or is something brewing
that we should know about? -
6:17 - 6:19In London, we have a bigger picture.
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6:19 - 6:24We watch the swarms of rumors,
not just traveling locally -
6:24 - 6:25but jumping countries.
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6:25 - 6:29We've seen them jump
from Japan over to Colombia, -
6:29 - 6:31through Europe and around.
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6:31 - 6:32They move.
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6:32 - 6:36We live in a hyperconnected environment.
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6:36 - 6:39One of the things
that we found fascinating, -
6:39 - 6:41and we've learned
a lot in the last 10 years -- -
6:41 - 6:44this is our 10th anniversary,
-
6:44 - 6:47this didn't start yesterday,
this rumor problem -- -
6:47 - 6:48and one of the things we've learned
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6:48 - 6:51is in our global monitoring,
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6:51 - 6:55that Europe is the most
skeptical region in the world. -
6:55 - 6:57France won the prize, actually.
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6:58 - 6:59(Laughter)
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6:59 - 7:00By far.
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7:00 - 7:04And actually some of those rumors
have traveled to other parts of the world. -
7:05 - 7:07But we were trying to understand Europe.
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7:07 - 7:09Hmm. Why Europe?
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7:09 - 7:11I thought the US was really --
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7:11 - 7:13had some of the most skepticism,
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7:13 - 7:15but boy, I was wrong.
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7:15 - 7:18And a political scientist,
a colleague we work with, -
7:18 - 7:20Jon Kennedy,
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7:20 - 7:24he took our data
from 28 European countries -
7:24 - 7:26and he looked at it
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7:26 - 7:28and correlated it
with political opinion polling. -
7:29 - 7:31And what did he find?
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7:31 - 7:37He found that people who are most likely
to vote for a populist party -
7:37 - 7:41also were the ones most likely
to strongly disagree -
7:41 - 7:44that vaccines were important,
safe or effective. -
7:44 - 7:46What did we learn?
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7:46 - 7:51Vaccines cannot escape
the political and social turbulence -
7:51 - 7:53that surrounds it.
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7:53 - 7:58Scientists were unprepared
for this tsunami of doubt -
7:58 - 8:01and questions and distrust.
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8:01 - 8:06What -- why are vaccines
so ripe for resistance? -
8:06 - 8:08Well, we identified a number of things,
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8:08 - 8:09but one:
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8:09 - 8:12they're highly mediated by government
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8:12 - 8:18that requires, regulates
and sometimes recommends vaccines -- -
8:18 - 8:21or often recommends
and sometimes requires. -
8:22 - 8:24Big business makes vaccines,
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8:24 - 8:28and neither institution,
government or big business, -
8:28 - 8:31are high in the trust ranks these days.
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8:31 - 8:35And then there's scientists
who discover and develop vaccines, -
8:35 - 8:37and they're pretty elite
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8:37 - 8:39and not accessible to the general public,
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8:39 - 8:42at least the language they speak.
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8:43 - 8:48Third, we're in a hyperconnected
environment with social media these days, -
8:48 - 8:51and people can share
their unfettered views, -
8:51 - 8:55concerns, anxieties and worries
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8:55 - 8:59and find a lot of people
that think the way they do, -
8:59 - 9:05and think maybe their worries
are worth paying attention to. -
9:05 - 9:06And finally,
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9:06 - 9:11vaccines touch every single
life on the planet. -
9:11 - 9:13What other health intervention,
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9:13 - 9:16besides water,
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9:16 - 9:19touches every single life?
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9:19 - 9:22So if you're looking
for something to disrupt, -
9:22 - 9:24it's a perfect stage.
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9:25 - 9:29Perhaps that's one of the reasons
that we need to pay more attention -
9:29 - 9:33and rebuild our trust in issues.
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9:33 - 9:36People are asking all kinds of questions.
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9:36 - 9:38They're asking,
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9:38 - 9:40why are vaccines --
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9:40 - 9:44and these are the kinds of things
we're hearing in our social media -- -
9:44 - 9:50why can't my child have
a personalized vaccination schedule? -
9:50 - 9:53What's the wisdom of so many vaccines?
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9:54 - 9:58What about all those ingredients
and preservatives? -
9:58 - 10:00These are not crazy people,
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10:00 - 10:02they're not uneducated;
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10:02 - 10:04they're actually worried mothers.
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10:05 - 10:10But some of them have come to me
and said, "We feel ignored, -
10:10 - 10:14we feel judged if we ask a question,
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10:14 - 10:15and we even feel demonized
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10:15 - 10:19that maybe we're part of some
antivaccine group." -
10:20 - 10:23So we have some listening to do.
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10:23 - 10:25And maybe that's why last year,
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10:25 - 10:27there was research that found
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10:27 - 10:31that in six months in 2019,
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10:33 - 10:35online --
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10:35 - 10:36this was with hundreds --
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10:36 - 10:40100 million different users
on social media -- -
10:40 - 10:46although the numbers of individuals
who expressed in their online groups, -
10:46 - 10:47they were positive,
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10:47 - 10:49as groups,
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10:49 - 10:51the ones who were the most negative
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10:51 - 10:55were recruiting
the conversations in the middle -
10:55 - 11:00that were undecided about whether
they wanted to get vaccines. -
11:00 - 11:01The highly negative --
-
11:01 - 11:04what we might call
the antivaccine groups -- -
11:04 - 11:06were recruiting the undecided
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11:06 - 11:11at a rate 500 percent faster
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11:11 - 11:14than the provaccine groups.
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11:14 - 11:17500 percent faster.
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11:17 - 11:19They were more nimble,
they were responsive -
11:19 - 11:21and they were listening.
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11:21 - 11:24Most people believe that vaccines are good
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11:24 - 11:26and they believe in their importance.
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11:26 - 11:29But that belief is under attack.
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11:29 - 11:34We need to build in
more opportunities for conversation. -
11:34 - 11:36And there are ways to do it.
-
11:36 - 11:38It's not easy for some
health professionals -
11:38 - 11:42to have conversations
where their authority is questioned. -
11:42 - 11:44It's uncomfortable.
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11:44 - 11:48And they're just too busy
to listen to all these questions. -
11:48 - 11:50But we need to do something about that,
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11:50 - 11:54because we're losing
a lot of concerned parents -
11:54 - 11:57that just want a conversation.
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11:57 - 12:02We should get volunteers
trained to sit in waiting rooms, -
12:02 - 12:04to be on hotlines,
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12:04 - 12:06to have online chat forums,
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12:06 - 12:08to have chat boxes.
-
12:08 - 12:11In younger kids,
with younger kids in school, -
12:11 - 12:14teach them about immune systems
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12:14 - 12:15and teach them that actually,
-
12:16 - 12:18you know that vaccine
your little brother got? -
12:18 - 12:23Well, it just inspired
your natural immune system. -
12:23 - 12:26It's a great thing and this is why.
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12:27 - 12:29We need to build that confidence;
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12:29 - 12:31we need to listen.
-
12:32 - 12:35Despite all this questioning --
-
12:35 - 12:37and there's a lot of it --
-
12:37 - 12:40I hear probably more
than a lot of people -- -
12:41 - 12:42I am an optimist.
-
12:42 - 12:47And my optimism
is with a younger generation. -
12:47 - 12:53The younger generation
who actually now are becoming very aware -
12:53 - 12:55of the risks of social media,
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12:55 - 12:57the false news,
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12:57 - 12:58the false identities,
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13:00 - 13:03and they're starting to embrace science.
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13:03 - 13:08And some of them are a group of children
whose mothers refused to vaccinate them. -
13:10 - 13:13Last spring of 2019,
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13:13 - 13:1718-year-old Ethan Lindenberger
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13:17 - 13:20went on Reddit and put out a post.
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13:22 - 13:25"My mother doesn't believe in vaccines.
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13:25 - 13:27She's really worried they cause autism.
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13:27 - 13:30In fact, she strongly believes that.
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13:30 - 13:32But I'm 18.
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13:32 - 13:34I'm a senior in high school.
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13:34 - 13:36I can drive a car, I can vote
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13:36 - 13:39and I could go get my own vaccine.
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13:39 - 13:41Can someone tell me where to get it?"
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13:41 - 13:44That post went viral.
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13:44 - 13:48It started to get
a whole younger movement going. -
13:49 - 13:52I saw Ethan speak at a conference,
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13:52 - 13:56the Global Vaccine Summit
at the EU last fall. -
13:56 - 13:58He spoke eloquently,
-
13:58 - 14:00and I was impressed,
-
14:00 - 14:02in front of a whole forum.
-
14:03 - 14:05He told his personal story,
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14:05 - 14:06and then he said to the group,
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14:06 - 14:10he said, "You know, everybody
talks about misinformation, -
14:10 - 14:14but I want to tell you about
a different kind of misinformation, -
14:14 - 14:19and that's misinformation
that says that people like my mother, -
14:19 - 14:21who is a loving mother,
-
14:21 - 14:26is a bad person because
she doesn't give me vaccines. -
14:26 - 14:31Well, I want to tell all of you
that she didn't give me a vaccine, -
14:31 - 14:33because she loves me
-
14:33 - 14:38and because she believed
that that was the best thing for me. -
14:38 - 14:39I think differently
-
14:39 - 14:42and I will never change her mind,
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14:42 - 14:44but she's not a bad person."
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14:45 - 14:48That was the message from a teenager.
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14:48 - 14:52Empathy, kindness and understanding.
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14:53 - 14:57We have an abundance
of scientific information -
14:57 - 14:59to debunk false rumors.
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15:00 - 15:02That's not our problem.
-
15:02 - 15:04We have a relationship problem,
-
15:04 - 15:06not a misinformation problem.
-
15:06 - 15:09Misinformation is the symptom,
-
15:09 - 15:11not the cause.
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15:11 - 15:13If people trust,
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15:13 - 15:17they'll put up with a little risk
to avert a much bigger one. -
15:17 - 15:21The one thing that I want and I hope for
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15:21 - 15:25is that we as a medical
and health community -
15:25 - 15:29have the moral courage and humility
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15:29 - 15:31to productively engage,
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15:31 - 15:33like Ethan,
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15:33 - 15:36with those who disagree with us.
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15:36 - 15:37I hope so.
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15:37 - 15:38Thank you.
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15:38 - 15:40(Applause and cheers)
- Title:
- Why rumors about vaccines spread -- and how to rebuild trust
- Speaker:
- Heidi Larson
- Description:
-
Why do people distrust vaccines? Anthropologist Heidi Larson explores how medical rumors originate, spread and fuel resistance to vaccines worldwide. While vaccines cannot escape the "political and social turbulence" that surrounds them, she says, the first step to stopping the spread of disease is to talk to people, listen and build trust.
- Video Language:
- English
- Team:
- closed TED
- Project:
- TEDTalks
- Duration:
- 15:54
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Joanna Pietrulewicz edited English subtitles for Why rumors about vaccines spread -- and how to rebuild trust | ||
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