Cultural value dilemmas | Fernando Lanzer | TEDxLaçador

Fernando Lanzer talks about ways of acting in different cultures.

Fernando is a consultant for companies in matters of leadership and organizational culture. He was an HR executive at Banco Sulbrasileiro and Banco Iochpe. At ABN AMRO, he was responsible for HR in Brazil, Latin America and the Caribbean, and became Executive Vice President, Group Head of Leadership, Development, and Learning of the holding company in Amsterdam.

He is the author of several articles and of the books "Take Off Your Glasses" (2012), translated into Portuguese as "Tire Os Seus Óculos," “Cruzando Culturas Sem Ser Atropelado: Gestão Transcultural Para Um Mundo Globalizado” (2013), and “Clima e Cultura Organizacionais: Entender, Manter e Mudar." For ten years, he has been a member (and then president) of the Supervisory Group of AIESEC International, the largest international organizing organization for internships in the world.

This talk was given at a TEDx event using the TED conference format but independently organized by a local community. Learn more at http://ted.com/tedx

I've lived in the United States,

Brazil, and the Netherlands.

And if I had to summarize
the culture of each country in one word,

this word, for the United States
would be "competition,"

for Brazil, it would be "hope,"

and for the Netherlands,
it would be "respect."

The United States
is a country of competition

because the people there believe
that life is a competition,

and that you have to be a winner.

In the Netherlands,
the important thing is respect -

I'm different than you,
but I respect your opinion,

even if it's different.

We agree to disagree.

We see this respect often,
even in traffic,

where it's normal to stop
and yield to another,

even if you're in the preferential lane.

The pedestrian is always respected,
not only in the crosswalk.

Wherever they want to cross,

the cars stop so the pedestrian can cross.

Brazil is the country of hope.

We live from one crisis to another,

but always with the hope
it will all work out right.

"Brazil is the country of the future!"

"Look, the future's arriving, here we go!"

Some years ago, I moved
with my family to Amsterdam,

and when we got there,
we searched for an apartment to rent.

We saw an ad, put up by a lady

who was renting an apartment
in her same building.

We went to look at the apartment,

and she said,

"The apartment's just down the hall
on this floor, and it's being painted,

but you can see it.

I'll take you there."

We went, knocked on the door,
and a man greeted us,

more or less the same age as her
and covered in paint.

He said, "Ah, please, be welcome.

Come in, make yourselves at home.

I just made some coffee,
would you like some?"

My wife and I politely thanked him,

"No, we only want to see
the apartment, then we have to go."

The owner said, "Sure, I'll have some."

They went into the kitchen,
talking animatedly.

We looked at the apartment,
and when it was time to go,

the painter came
to the door to say goodbye,

and as we were leaving, I asked the owner,

"Is he your husband?"

She said, "No, he's a painter
that I contracted."

We were stunned

because they treated each other as equals.

We thought, "In Brazil,
we wouldn't do this."

In Brazil, we tend
to put the painter, the worker,

into another social class.

We don't treat them as equals,
and they don't treat us as equals.

The Netherlands is extremely egalitarian,

and this awakened my interest in culture.

So I started to research
this issue, culture,

and discovered that different countries
and different communities

teach different versions
of what is right and wrong,

what is appropriate and what isn't.

And in my search for culture,
I discovered an iceberg -

the iceberg of culture.

I discovered that culture
has a visible part

at the iceberg's surface -

rituals, symbols, cultural heroes,

the way people dress, and food.

But there's a much more important part
that stays below the surface

and isn't seen.

This part is values.

The values of each culture determine

how we communicate,

what our style of work is,

and our relationship style.

Researching this cultural iceberg,
I discovered a Dutch researcher,

Geert Hofstede.

Hofstede did statistical research

about values in different cultures.

He concluded there are five basic dilemmas

that all cultures must resolve,

and they resolve them
in one way or another.

These five basic dilemmas are:

hierarchy vs. equality,

individualism vs. collectivism,

performance vs. quality of life
and caring for others,

control of uncertainty
vs. "let things flow,"

and flexibility vs. stability.

Then everything began to make more sense.

With these five dilemmas,
I started to understand culture.

But let's see how this works in practice.

This person here, in white clothes,
is the prime minister of Thailand.

So why is he sitting on the ground?

Because the person behind the little table
is the king of Thailand.

Thailand has a very hierarchical culture,

and, in hierarchical cultures, there is
what is called "power distance."

The power distance is very large.

Status symbols are very apparent.

Difference in status is very apparent,

even between the two most
important positions in the country.

Here

is the prime minister of Sweden.

Sweden has an egalitarian culture.

The Swedish prime minister
is in line for the ATM,

waiting his turn like everyone else.

In egalitarian cultures,
there's also a hierarchy,

but it's more subtle and more discrete.

The power distance is less.

Here

is the princess of Denmark.

Denmark is also an egalitarian society

with little power distance.

So why is this princess
getting the red carpet treatment

with people throwing
flower petals at her feet?

Because she's not in Denmark.

She's visiting Thailand,

and Thai people treat royalty
from other countries

just like they treat their own.

This photo is very important
because it demonstrates

that who determines

if a society is hierarchical
or egalitarian

isn't who's at the top of the pyramid,

but who's at the base of the pyramid.

Who makes a dictatorship
isn't the dictator,

it's the people who accept the dictator,

or who, sometimes, even desire
a dictator or a strong government.

The princess of Denmark never
would be treated this way in Denmark.

Maybe that's why
she likes to visit Thailand.

(Laughter)

This all starts in childhood.

We learn the notion of right and wrong

as it relates to people

before we are 10 years old,

and if there's a power distance or not.

We learn this not from what people say,

but from observation.

We see what our parents, neighbors,

teachers, and colleagues are doing,

and we learn by imitating.

When I was a child, in Porto Alegre,

when my parents were receiving
visitors in the living room,

and my sister and I entered
the living room to play,

they would say,

"Go outside to play;
we're having an adult conversation."

And out we'd go.

We learned that, in this world,

there are some people
who have more power - the adults -

and other people
who have less - the children.

Today, I live in the Netherlands,

and when I visit my neighbor's house,

and his children enter
into the living room to play,

he stops talking with me and includes
the children in the conversation.

So these children
learn that, in this world,

everyone has more or less the same power.

The power is distributed in a more
egalitarian way in this community.

Eventually, in the Netherlands,
we found a house and moved into it.

One day, a person knocked on the door,

and identified himself as being
from the local government.

He said, "There's a playground
at the end of the street,

and the city's going to reform it.

So we're doing research here on the street

to know what kinds of play equipment
are preferred by neighborhood children,

so we can guarantee
this equipment they prefer

will be put into the renewed playground.

Do you have young children at home?"

I said, "Yes. I have two girls,
four and five years old.

They like the slide,
the merry-go-round ... "

And he said, "No.

Please, are they at home?

I want to talk with them."

(Laughter)

You could have knocked
me over with a feather.

This would never happen in Brazil.

They didn't want to talk with me.

They wanted to talk directly
with my daughters.

Now, imagine what kind
of society is created

when this type of attitude
is taken with children?

Children are treated like people
from when they're very small,

not like our project
as we sometimes like to say.

The second cultural dilemma

is individualism vs. collectivism.

In individualism,

people assume more
individual responsibility.

They express their individual opinion,

even if this can injure the other person,

because the most
important thing is to fulfill

your responsibility
to your own conscience,

and a dissenting opinion
is someone else's problem.

In these communities, the task
is more important than the relationship.

In collective societies,
it's the opposite.

The group is more important
than the individual.

People belong to different groups,

and inside each group,

they avoid confrontation
and expressing dissident opinions.

There can be conflict
between one group and another,

but, inside the same group,
conflict is avoided.

The third dilemma I want to mention

is between performance
and quality of life.

The two things are important.

All societies have performance,

and have a need for quality of life
and for taking care of others.

But, if you have to choose

between performance
and quality of life in a situation,

depending on which culture
you're a part of,

you may fall on the side of performance,

or you may fall on the side
of quality of life.

I'm not going to talk
about the other two dilemmas

because I'd never end this talk
short of 18 minutes,

but let's take a little look
at some research data.

This is Brazil's profile.

Brazil is a culture
of high power distance.

It's more collective
than individualistic -

individualism is relatively low.

In terms of performance
and quality of life,

it's more or less balanced.

We have high control of uncertainty
and we have high flexibility.

Let's compare with the United States.

It's quite different.

The United States has low power distance,

and is a more egalitarian
society than Brazil.

The United States has high individualism;

it's the world's
most individualistic country.

Also, the United States

has a stronger orientation
to performance over quality of life

in comparison to Brazil,

has less need to control uncertainty,

and has less flexibility than Brazil.

So let's look at the Netherlands,
only to have another comparison.

Here you can see that the Netherlands

is similar to the United States
in terms of power distance,

it's egalitarian.

Also, it's sufficiently individualistic,
almost as much as the Americans.

Now, in terms of orientation
for performance,

it's much lower.

Clearly, the Dutch prefer

quality of life over performance.

In terms of control of uncertainty,

they're a little higher
than the Americans.

In terms of flexibility,

it's in the middle between Brazil
and the United States.

What does all this mean in practice?

Imagine a meeting at work.

A work meeting in the United States

is driven by action,
discussion, and decision.

And the boss decides who will do what.

In the Netherlands,

the meeting is driven by discovering

what are everyone's opinions.

The result is secondary.

The important thing
is that everybody be heard,

and the boss is more like a coordinator
who helps the whole group to decide.

What is a typical
work meeting like in Brazil?

The meeting is a platform

for the boss to announce the decision
that he already made before the meeting.

And nobody discusses
what the boss already decided.

If you want to influence the decision,

you have to talk with the boss
prior to the meeting.

In the meeting, there
won't be a chance to object.

This results in different styles of work.

Brazil is hierarchical

and since it has a hierarchical culture,

Brazil also tends to think that there
is a hierarchy in all the countries.

So we think that some countries
are cooler than others.

We tend to admire
the United States and Europe,

and we tend to disregard
Africa and the rest of Latin America.

We like to imitate the Americans,

the French, and the Germans.

For example, when we study
college administration,

almost everything we study
comes from the United States.

However, some of the concepts

need to be adapted.

Feedback, for example.

We learn that feedback is a cool thing
that everyone must practice.

In the United States, it works.

In Brazil, feedback is different.

You don't give feedback to your boss.

When your boss gives feedback to you,

it's because of something
you did that he didn't like.

And you won't take the risk
to give feedback to your boss

because if he doesn't like the feedback,
he boots you onto the street.

So things like this need to be adapted

before you do them in another culture.

Brazil doesn't need to imitate the others.

There are many things we do better
than the Americans and the Dutch.

For example, this concept
of "mutirão," joint effort.

If we want to mobilize people,

it's much easier
to mobilize people in Brazil.

If I needed your help here
to rearrange the stage,

take this X from here
and put it there in the back,

I'd only have to ask, and three or four
people would appear to help do this.

If I asked the same in the Netherlands,
people would look at me and say,

"Are you sure this is a good idea?

But why do you want to do this?

Let's discuss it."

(Laughter)

And we would discuss it for two hours
and not come to any conclusion.

So we have many things
to learn from others,

but we also have many things to teach.

There isn't any culture
that is better than the other.

The important thing
is that we keep an open mind.

What I learned,

going from one culture to another,
working in different countries,

is that it's important to ask to learn.

Listen more than talk.

And your questions must be short.

Like: "Why?" and "How?"

In this way, we can put ourselves
in the place of the other,

and really learn.

All this is imporant because we need
to learn to look for the right problem.

If we discuss problems of culture
without looking at values,

we can be looking in the wrong place.

And if we want to change the culture,
we need to reeducate adults,

but we need, especially,
to change the learning style of children.

At home and in school.

As long as we continue educating
children in an authoritative way,

we'll continue creating
a hierarchical society.

If we want a more egalitarian society,

we must change the education style
to be more egalitarian.

For this, we need
to tinker with our values.

Values are the stone path
along which we can change the culture.

Deep down, we're all different,
we're not all equal,

but we have the same value -
we're equivalent.

Thank you.

(Applause)

(Cheers)