The dark side of literary translation | Ilya Odegov | TEDxAlmaty
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0:09 - 0:11Hello everyone.
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0:11 - 0:12My name is Ilya Odegov.
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0:12 - 0:15I am a writer, a literary translator,
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0:15 - 0:18and a reader, of course, a keen reader.
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0:18 - 0:19I started reading at age three,
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0:19 - 0:21and over the years, obviously,
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0:21 - 0:23I've found my favourite authors.
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0:23 - 0:27And what is interesting,
only about 20% of these authors -
0:27 - 0:30wrote or write in my native language,
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0:30 - 0:32in Russian.
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0:32 - 0:35The other 80% write
in all languages of the world. -
0:36 - 0:38Tolkien and Selinger,
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0:38 - 0:41Kobo Abe and Murakami,
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0:42 - 0:44Kafka and Pavish -
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0:44 - 0:46all these people wrote
in their own language, -
0:46 - 0:48but we read them in translation.
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0:48 - 0:53We read them, often without realizing
the titanic work that is behind it all. -
0:53 - 0:55Often we don't even bother
looking inside the cover, -
0:55 - 0:58at the title page,
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0:58 - 1:00to see the translator's name.
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1:01 - 1:05Yet, the world we are holding in our hands
depends on this person. -
1:05 - 1:08Our perception of a book
depends on the translator. -
1:08 - 1:12So, today I would like
to talk about literary translation. -
1:13 - 1:15I remember how, when a child,
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1:15 - 1:16I realized for the first time
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1:16 - 1:19that my favourite books
had been written in other languages, -
1:19 - 1:22and I wanted badly to peak
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1:23 - 1:26at the other side,
at the other side of the moon, -
1:26 - 1:27to see what was there.
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1:27 - 1:30I started my research and soon found out
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1:30 - 1:34that Peppi Longstocking
was "Pippi" and not "Peppi", -
1:34 - 1:37that Russian translators
had named her "Peppi" -
1:37 - 1:39to make it sound better in Russian.
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1:39 - 1:42Or that Junior from "Junior and Karlson"
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1:43 - 1:45in the original Swedish was "Lillebror",
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1:45 - 1:47meaning "little brother",
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1:48 - 1:51so, translating the book title literally,
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1:51 - 1:53we'll have "Little Brother and Karlson".
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1:55 - 1:57There have been many similar discoveries,
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1:57 - 2:01and every discovery has made
my world a little more complex, -
2:01 - 2:02a little more complete.
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2:02 - 2:06It's like you've been saying
"galstuk" [neck tie] your whole life, -
2:06 - 2:08and then at some point you discover
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2:08 - 2:11that the German "Hals"
translates to "neck", -
2:11 - 2:12and "Tuch" to "cloth",
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2:12 - 2:14so, "galstuk" is not just
a set of letters, -
2:14 - 2:16but "neck cloth".
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2:16 - 2:19A word starts to make sense,
and it's great. -
2:20 - 2:21The thing I liked the most when a kid
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2:23 - 2:27was when the original was printed
alongside the Russian translation. -
2:27 - 2:30I remember in Lewis Carroll's
"Alice Through the Looking Glass", -
2:30 - 2:32a poem called "Jabberwocky".
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2:32 - 2:33The translated version was:
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2:33 - 2:35"Varkalalos. Hleevkeeye shorkee
Pyryalees po naveh, -
2:35 - 2:38Ee hryukotalee zyelyukee,
Kak mjumzeekee v moveh. -
2:38 - 2:40And next to it was the original:
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2:40 - 2:44"Twas bryllyg, and y_e slythy toves
Did gyre and gymble in y_e wabe: -
2:44 - 2:49All mimsy were y_e borogoves;
And y_e mome raths outgrabe." -
2:49 - 2:51Of course, it's a nonsense verse.
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2:51 - 2:53Although, I question
this translation a lot, -
2:54 - 2:58as a child, I found it so cool
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2:58 - 3:01to be able to see the original
and the translated versions together. -
3:01 - 3:04So, the first piece of advice
I want to give you is: -
3:04 - 3:06if you have the opportunity,
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3:06 - 3:08always compare the translation
with the original. -
3:08 - 3:10Even if you don't know the language,
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3:10 - 3:12don't understand the meaning,
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3:12 - 3:16at least you will be able to read,
to see, what the letters look like, -
3:16 - 3:20feel the rhythm, feel the phonetics,
the melody of the language, -
3:20 - 3:23that was put into the piece
by the author himself. -
3:25 - 3:26Some time passed, I grew up,
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3:26 - 3:29I dedicated myself to literature,
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3:29 - 3:33started to write books,
attend festivals, get awards, -
3:33 - 3:35and I continued to study
foreign languages. -
3:36 - 3:38At some point,
a thought came into my head: -
3:38 - 3:40"Why not combine these two activities
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3:41 - 3:44and start doing literary
translations yourself?" -
3:45 - 3:48I started with poems because I thought
that for one thing, a poem, -
3:48 - 3:52it can be a short and easy to work with,
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3:52 - 3:55and for another thing,
a poem is not just text in a column, -
3:56 - 4:00it can say a lot succinctly
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4:00 - 4:04with rhyme, rhythm, and metre,
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4:04 - 4:08and metaphors and cultural allusions,
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4:08 - 4:10wordplay, and so on.
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4:11 - 4:16So, despite its size, it has
a lot of entertaining work to offer. -
4:16 - 4:22I used to translate Robert Frost,
Blake, Kipling, from English; -
4:23 - 4:24Lorca from Spanish;
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4:24 - 4:27Abai, Magzhan Zhumabayev,
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4:27 - 4:30Ybyrai Altynsarin,
Kuandyk Shangitbayev, from Kazakh; -
4:31 - 4:34Gunnar Ekelöf from Swedish, and so on.
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4:34 - 4:37And each time I came to
this or that author, -
4:37 - 4:41familiarizing myself with available
translations of his poems, -
4:41 - 4:46I soon realized that very often
those translations were pretty free, -
4:46 - 4:49already to be found, rather inaccurate,
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4:49 - 4:52while I always wanted to avoid this,
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4:52 - 4:53because it always seemed to me
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4:53 - 4:58that I was a mere translator,
just an intermediary conduit, -
4:58 - 5:01taking from one language
and delivering into another. -
5:01 - 5:06What right did I have
to mess with an author's thoughts, -
5:06 - 5:09even if I don't like
a certain technique used by the author, -
5:09 - 5:11even if it’s not accurate in my opinion,
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5:11 - 5:13not entirely appropriate?
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5:13 - 5:15But do I have a right to make it better,
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5:15 - 5:17better in my opinion?
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5:17 - 5:19I think that I don't.
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5:19 - 5:21I tried to make translations
as accurate as possible, -
5:21 - 5:22as concise as possible,
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5:22 - 5:25conveying exactly what the author
had put into them. -
5:25 - 5:27And this turned out to be a lot.
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5:28 - 5:31If we are talking
about meaning, for instance, -
5:31 - 5:34I will give you some examples
of inaccuracies in translation. -
5:34 - 5:37There is a poem by Robert Frost,
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5:37 - 5:39one of his most famous ones,
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5:39 - 5:41"Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening".
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5:41 - 5:44This is a poem about a man
who is riding a horse; -
5:45 - 5:47he's been on his way for a long time,
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5:47 - 5:49and his home is still far away.
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5:49 - 5:53There is a lake on one side of him
and a forest on the other. -
5:53 - 5:56It's late evening, almost night,
the sky above him is enormous. -
5:56 - 5:58Suddenly, he stops his horse,
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5:58 - 6:01and he feels terribly tiny
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6:01 - 6:04in this huge, dark world
cowered with snow. -
6:06 - 6:10And he calls his horse, his companion,
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6:10 - 6:13"my little horse".
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6:13 - 6:16This translates directly into Russian -
so really just meaning "his horse". -
6:17 - 6:20In half of the translations I've read,
and I've seen about 10, -
6:20 - 6:23in half of the translations,
the translator writes "my steed". -
6:24 - 6:27You'll agree they are
exactly the same animal, -
6:27 - 6:29but the way we think about it
differs greatly. -
6:29 - 6:32A steed is like that of Peter the Great
in the poem "Poltava": -
6:32 - 6:34"Someone brings his horse.
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6:34 - 6:35His steed is ardent and resolved,
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6:35 - 6:37Atremble as his nostrils sense
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6:37 - 6:39The battle flames. Through martial dust
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6:39 - 6:40He flies, his eyes attentive, sly,
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6:40 - 6:42And proudly bears his mighty burden."
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6:42 - 6:43This is a steed.
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6:43 - 6:47But here we have "my little horse"
and a huge world around me. -
6:47 - 6:49The difference is colossal.
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6:49 - 6:52Abai, for example, wrote a wonderful poem
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6:53 - 6:55which I translated.
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6:55 - 6:57Its first lines are:
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6:57 - 6:59(Reads first two lines in Kazakh)
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7:02 - 7:06This is what these lines sound like
in a classic Soviet translation -
7:06 - 7:08that can be found in many textbooks:
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7:09 - 7:12(Reads first two lines
of Soviet Russian translation) -
7:13 - 7:16Not only is the original rhythm lost,
but also the meaning. -
7:16 - 7:20The original poem is not about shadows,
but about only one shadow. -
7:22 - 7:24And there's nothing there that is merging;
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7:25 - 7:28it's about a shadow getting longer
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7:28 - 7:31and hiding everything further away.
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7:31 - 7:34And if you look
at the context of the poem, -
7:34 - 7:38you will realize that it's about
getting older, age; -
7:38 - 7:40and it isn't the shadow
of a tree or a mountain; -
7:40 - 7:43it's the shadow of the author himself,
basically, of an old man. -
7:43 - 7:46The shadow lengthening
is him becoming older, -
7:46 - 7:50old memories become hidden,
people forgotten, -
7:50 - 7:52people he's met, in childhood perhaps.
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7:52 - 7:55He no longer remembers all this,
the shadow is too long. -
7:55 - 7:58So, basically, by changing
the first two lines of the poem, -
7:58 - 8:02we change its main metaphor
and the original meaning completely. -
8:02 - 8:05We, in fact, read
these poems, these translations, -
8:05 - 8:06we're brought up on them,
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8:06 - 8:10and we think that they are exactly
what an author wanted to convey. -
8:10 - 8:13That's why my next piece
of advice to you is: -
8:14 - 8:17Don't blame the author
when you read a translation. -
8:17 - 8:20It's highly likely
that the translation is bad. -
8:20 - 8:22Look for others, compare them,
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8:22 - 8:25and when you find
a good translator, stay with him, -
8:25 - 8:28because good translators
are few and far between. -
8:28 - 8:30When they're to be found,
watch out for them, -
8:30 - 8:31remember their names,
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8:31 - 8:33check if they are working on a new one,
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8:33 - 8:36let them be guiding stars for you.
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8:37 - 8:41That was about meaning,
but there's also form, -
8:41 - 8:42there's rhythm, metre.
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8:43 - 8:46For Kazakh poetry, for example,
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8:46 - 8:48a traditionally adopted verse structure
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8:49 - 8:51is where the first, second,
and fourth lines -
8:51 - 8:55have the same length and rhyme,
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8:55 - 9:00while the third line is different
in length and doesn't rhyme. -
9:01 - 9:05If we look at the poems
of Magzhan Zhumabayev, -
9:05 - 9:09we find he used to experiment
with this traditional form, -
9:09 - 9:12ultimately creating
his own totally new forms, -
9:12 - 9:14non-standard, innovative ones;
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9:14 - 9:16trying to introduce new patterns,
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9:16 - 9:18destroying the old, conventional one.
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9:20 - 9:23Here is one of his poems,
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9:25 - 9:27"Eski qala" [Old Town]:
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9:28 - 9:30(Reads poem in Kazakh)
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9:58 - 10:01And here's how I translate it,
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10:01 - 10:03trying to conserve the same rhythm,
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10:03 - 10:05which is not easy to do.
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10:05 - 10:07Can you hear it's non-traditional?
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10:07 - 10:10(Reads his Russian translation)
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10:38 - 10:40Do you hear how unusual the rhythm is?
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10:40 - 10:42(Applause)
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10:43 - 10:45That's how you can change
a rhythm like that. -
10:45 - 10:47What do some other translators do?
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10:47 - 10:48How can you change something
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10:48 - 10:52that, basically, underlines
a poem or a work of literature? -
10:52 - 10:55It's an important aspect
that requires attention, -
10:55 - 10:57but not the only one.
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10:57 - 10:58Meaning and form are important,
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10:58 - 11:01but there are some other aspects of poetry
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11:02 - 11:04that call for careful attention
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11:04 - 11:10and often a firm decision
by the translator. -
11:10 - 11:13I'll give you an example
from modern poetry, -
11:13 - 11:15an example with cultural allusions.
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11:17 - 11:19Aigerim Tazhi, a contemporary poet,
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11:19 - 11:21is one of the most famous
outside our country, -
11:21 - 11:25her poems having been translated
into a number of languages, -
11:25 - 11:27into English by the former president
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11:27 - 11:30of the American Literary
Translators Association, Jim Kates. -
11:30 - 11:35These poems and translations
have already won a number of awards. -
11:37 - 11:39And I remember once,
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11:39 - 11:42when, in one of Aigerim's poems,
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11:42 - 11:45there was the phrase "koshcheyeva zhizn",
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11:47 - 11:51and Jim was not sure
how to translate it into English. -
11:51 - 11:53You could say "Koschei’s life",
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11:54 - 11:57but English speakers
wouldn't understand it. -
11:57 - 12:04It's possible to include a reference,
a footnote, and explain -
12:04 - 12:06that Koschei is a mythological creature.
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12:06 - 12:08But it's in the middle of the poem:
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12:08 - 12:10you need to stop, look, read the note,
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12:10 - 12:12return to the text ... and you're lost.
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12:12 - 12:16Finally, after much reflection,
the decision was made -
12:16 - 12:20to find an equivalent in the mythology
of the English-speaking world -
12:20 - 12:24closest to Koschei.
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12:24 - 12:28"Ghoul’s life" was chosen.
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12:28 - 12:32A ghoul is some kind of creature
that looks like Koschei. -
12:32 - 12:35But every time things like this arise,
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12:35 - 12:38the translator has to make
an important decision. -
12:38 - 12:40You cannot give a precise translation;
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12:40 - 12:42you have to find a way around.
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12:42 - 12:44Phonetics is also important.
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12:46 - 12:49In many poems,
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12:49 - 12:52poets use some kinds of
special phonetic technique. -
12:53 - 12:59For example, I have been translating
the Swedish poet Gunnar Ekelöf. -
12:59 - 13:05Very often he uses an emphasis
on sounds in his poems: -
13:06 - 13:08"drömde", "öden", "ödet", "dödar".
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13:08 - 13:10You hear a recurrent "d".
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13:10 - 13:12There was a phrase in one of his poems:
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13:12 - 13:15"Leva farligt! Dess mer
förtjänte du återfödsel." -
13:16 - 13:18Do you hear how it sounds?
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13:18 - 13:20If you look more closely,
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13:20 - 13:22you'll notice that the sound "f"
repeats three times: -
13:23 - 13:26"Leva farligt! Dess mer
förtjänte du återfödsel." -
13:27 - 13:29Translating it into Russian,
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13:29 - 13:36I was trying to conserve the metre,
the rhyme, and the meaning, -
13:36 - 13:37and to play with phonetics,
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13:37 - 13:40to play with sounds as the author did,
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13:40 - 13:42because it's my duty as a translator,
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13:42 - 13:44my obligation, to follow
what an author does. -
13:44 - 13:45My translation was:
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13:45 - 13:48"Zheevee opasno! Pyeryerozhdyene
eteem zasluzheesh." -
13:49 - 13:52Instead of "f", I used "zh" three times,
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13:52 - 13:55the same way Gunnar Ekelöf
had played with phonetics. -
13:56 - 14:00There are hundreds and thousands
of similar examples, -
14:00 - 14:05and, for sure, as good
as a translation is, -
14:05 - 14:09it's impossible to make it
exactly the same as the original. -
14:10 - 14:11But we can try very hard.
-
14:11 - 14:15We can try to make a translation
as transparent as possible, -
14:15 - 14:20so that when we read a poem
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14:20 - 14:22translated from Kazakh into Russian,
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14:22 - 14:26we can hear Kazakh phonetics
through the Russian, -
14:26 - 14:29so that we hear the sound
of the Kazakh language, -
14:29 - 14:31its melody,
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14:31 - 14:35as well as, the meaning
and form of it, of course, -
14:35 - 14:37so we can hear one language
through the other. -
14:37 - 14:40I think that this is that
to which we must always strive. -
14:40 - 14:41Of course, it's difficult,
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14:41 - 14:43that's why such translations are rare.
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14:44 - 14:46But I want to believe
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14:46 - 14:51that the importance and the value
of literary translation in Russia -
14:51 - 14:53will be recognized,
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14:53 - 14:57and, who knows, maybe one of you here
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14:57 - 15:00will be impressed and inspired by my talk,
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15:00 - 15:02and dedicates him- or herself
to this profession. -
15:02 - 15:04Thank you.
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15:04 - 15:06(Applause)
- Title:
- The dark side of literary translation | Ilya Odegov | TEDxAlmaty
- Description:
-
Ilya Odegov is a writer and a literary translator who has translated works of R. Frost, R. Kipling, F.G. Lorca, Abai, Gunnar Ekelöf as well as works of other writers and poets into Russian. In this talk, he tells us about what things translators need to pay attention to and how drastically the meaning of a poem changes with inaccurate, free translation.
This talk was given at a TEDx event using the TED conference format but independently organized by a local community. Learn more at http://ted.com/tedx
- Video Language:
- Russian
- Team:
- closed TED
- Project:
- TEDxTalks
- Duration:
- 15:16
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