Nature's internet: how trees talk to each other in a healthy forest | Suzanne Simard | TEDxSeattle
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0:13 - 0:15The Coast Salish people say, "We are one."
-
0:15 - 0:17[nə́c̓aʔmat ct]
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0:17 - 0:19For thousands of years they lived it.
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0:20 - 0:22But we didn't pay any attention.
-
0:23 - 0:26Most of us have forgotten
that we're connected to each other, -
0:26 - 0:27and to nature,
-
0:27 - 0:29that we are one.
-
0:29 - 0:34But nature is not some separate thing,
but an intimate part of us. -
0:34 - 0:38And what we do on this Earth
ripples through our ecosystems, -
0:38 - 0:39our web of connections.
-
0:40 - 0:42Now, the signs are undeniable:
-
0:43 - 0:44climate change,
-
0:45 - 0:46species extinctions,
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0:47 - 0:49human suffering.
-
0:49 - 0:50We have forgotten.
-
0:51 - 0:56But for their faith, the people
are connected through spirit to forests, -
0:56 - 0:59and oceans and rivers
and bears and salmon, -
0:59 - 1:02the Coast Salish people were ignored.
-
1:02 - 1:05But truly, it does come down
to a matter of faith, -
1:06 - 1:11to trust and respect the relationships
that make up the complexity of nature. -
1:13 - 1:16But we said that's unscientific.
-
1:16 - 1:19Western science
requires exact measurements, -
1:20 - 1:21visible proof,
-
1:21 - 1:23statistics.
-
1:23 - 1:25But make no mistake,
-
1:25 - 1:28the Coast Salish people
were deeply scientific. -
1:29 - 1:33How else could they have lived here
for over 10,000 years in such prosperity? -
1:33 - 1:36In fact, they were more
scientific than we. -
1:36 - 1:40For us to look any deeper,
that would have hampered progress. -
1:40 - 1:44"There are trees in those forests,
and our buildings need wood, -
1:44 - 1:46and our printers need paper.
-
1:46 - 1:49We need to cut down the forests
and replant those trees." -
1:52 - 1:53Now, how do I fit into this?
-
1:54 - 1:57Well, I come from a family of loggers.
-
1:57 - 1:59And while my family
was up on the mountainsides -
1:59 - 2:02cutting down trees, one here, one there,
-
2:02 - 2:04I was playing in the forest below,
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2:05 - 2:07in the places that are seen and unseen,
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2:09 - 2:12in the trees and the logs
and the forest floor. -
2:12 - 2:15And I believed that fairies lived there.
-
2:17 - 2:21And their job was to live in
and protect the forest, just like my job. -
2:21 - 2:23But the fairies couldn't save that forest,
-
2:24 - 2:27and neither could I;
actually, nobody could. -
2:27 - 2:31Because the owner of the patch
had to cut it down to feed his family. -
2:31 - 2:33And that moment changed me forever.
-
2:34 - 2:36Actually, it motivated me.
-
2:36 - 2:39And I went to school to study forestry.
-
2:39 - 2:45I wanted to understand the mystery
of why forests felt so powerful to me. -
2:45 - 2:46I wanted to save forests.
-
2:48 - 2:51Ironically though, the first job I got
coming out of forestry school -
2:51 - 2:55was to mark old growth trees
for clearcutting, -
2:55 - 2:59and then to replant those clearcuts
with fast-growing firs and pines, -
2:59 - 3:04and to weed out the unwanted species -
the alders, the birches, the aspens. -
3:05 - 3:07And you know what?
-
3:07 - 3:10Well, it's because
we considered them competitors, -
3:10 - 3:12interfering with our profits.
-
3:13 - 3:16And I got pretty good at creating
these shiny new monocultures. -
3:17 - 3:20But you know,
the questions kept piling up. -
3:21 - 3:24Why was disease spreading
through these plantations? -
3:25 - 3:28Why was cutting out birch
making the fir so sick? -
3:29 - 3:34And I was also increasingly worried
about the increasing rate of clearcutting. -
3:35 - 3:38You see, I'd learned in school
that about a century ago, -
3:38 - 3:42that in Canada, in British Columbia,
they developed this cutting plan -
3:42 - 3:45to cut down all of the old growth trees
in the working forest. -
3:46 - 3:48I knew about it, I'd learned it in school.
-
3:48 - 3:53But it took me a long time to realize
that the cutting was not going to stop. -
3:53 - 3:58Nor the attitude that we could convert
these old growth forests -
3:58 - 4:02into nice marketable, neat plantations.
-
4:03 - 4:06It seemed to me that there was more
to the forest than meets the eye. -
4:07 - 4:09So, I returned to graduate school
-
4:10 - 4:13and I became fascinated
with the underground, -
4:13 - 4:17I wanted to understand the mystery of why
these old growth forests were so powerful. -
4:17 - 4:20So, I looked at this UK study,
-
4:20 - 4:24and they were examining seedlings
growing in the laboratory, -
4:24 - 4:28and colonized them with this fungus,
a mycorrhizal fungus. -
4:28 - 4:31The fungus connected
the seedlings in a web, -
4:31 - 4:35and they transmitted carbon
from one seedling to the other. -
4:37 - 4:40A mycorrhiza is literally a fungus-root.
-
4:41 - 4:44In this symbiotic association
the fungus grows through the soil -
4:44 - 4:48picking up nutrients and water,
and bringing them back to the plant, -
4:48 - 4:50and trading them
for photosynthetic carbon. -
4:51 - 4:55It's a symbiotic, mutualistic,
reciprocal relationship. -
4:55 - 4:57And most fascinating to me,
-
4:57 - 5:01these fungi could
connect plants below ground. -
5:02 - 5:05So, I wondered, I thought back
to my fir forests, and I wondered, -
5:05 - 5:09could the fungi colonizing birch
-
5:09 - 5:12actually connect with fir and protect it?
-
5:13 - 5:15So, I did some research,
I wanted to find out. -
5:15 - 5:19My first question
came back to that faith thing again. -
5:19 - 5:20Even though we can't see it,
-
5:21 - 5:25could these mycorrhizal fungi
be connecting trees below ground? -
5:26 - 5:29Well, it turns out
that they can in real forests. -
5:29 - 5:33Using DNA microsatellites,
we uncovered this network -
5:33 - 5:35in an old growth Douglas fir forest.
-
5:36 - 5:40In this picture, these circles
represent Douglas fir trees. -
5:40 - 5:44And the bigger and darker the circle,
the bigger and older the tree. -
5:44 - 5:47And those small,
light circles in the middle, -
5:47 - 5:50those are the seedlings
growing in the understory. -
5:50 - 5:53And these lines
that are linking the circles, -
5:53 - 5:56those are the interlinking
mycorrhizal fungal highways. -
5:57 - 5:59And you'll notice
that the biggest, darkest circles, -
5:59 - 6:02the biggest, oldest trees,
are the most highly connected. -
6:03 - 6:05So, we call these 'hub trees.'
-
6:05 - 6:09and later, more fondly,
we started to call them 'mother trees.' -
6:10 - 6:12Because as it turns out,
those mother trees -
6:12 - 6:15are nurturing the young
seedlings in the understory. -
6:17 - 6:19Now, this map is of only two
-
6:19 - 6:23of what we think are
100 fungal species in the forest. -
6:23 - 6:28Could you imagine if we'd been able
to map all 100 species? -
6:29 - 6:33Next I wanted to know, what might be
flowing through this network? -
6:34 - 6:38Well, it turns out, the very things
that plants need to survive and grow. -
6:38 - 6:43Things like carbon,
and nutrients, and water. -
6:43 - 6:46So, we use isotopes, carbon isotopes,
and we label plants, -
6:46 - 6:48and we were able to see the carbon
-
6:48 - 6:51transmix back and forth
through this network, -
6:51 - 6:54like messages transmitting
through the internet. -
6:55 - 6:59And when one seedling is under stress,
if it's small, or shaded, -
6:59 - 7:04or nutrient poor, or senescing,
the other plant sends more carbon. -
7:04 - 7:09We figured out that it follows
what's called a source-sink gradient. -
7:09 - 7:13From a robust source plant
like an illuminated birch tree -
7:13 - 7:16to a needful sink plant
like an understory fir tree, -
7:17 - 7:20and all this without
harming the source plants. -
7:21 - 7:23The next thing we wanted to know was,
-
7:23 - 7:27so this happens, but what does
it really matter in forests? -
7:27 - 7:30Well, it turns out
if you shade one of the plants, -
7:30 - 7:36if Douglas fir's shaded in the understory,
birch will send ten percent of its carbon, -
7:36 - 7:38and that's a lot of carbon.
-
7:39 - 7:42That's enough for Douglas fir
actually to make seeds. -
7:42 - 7:45Now, we haven't figured out
precisely what the amounts mean, -
7:45 - 7:50but we do know that this transfer
increases their survival and growth, -
7:50 - 7:53and health of the seedlings
growing in the understory. -
7:55 - 7:58Now, I published this work
in some pretty good journals. -
7:59 - 8:03This particular article struck a chord.
-
8:04 - 8:06Lots of people were enthused.
-
8:07 - 8:10In fact, there is a whole bunch
of new research all around the world -
8:10 - 8:12that was inspired by this paper.
-
8:13 - 8:17But there were also critics
who tried to discredit my work. -
8:18 - 8:20In fact, there were
a lot of papers written, -
8:20 - 8:22keynote addresses given,
-
8:23 - 8:24press releases.
-
8:24 - 8:26And back home,
-
8:26 - 8:30a professional ethics letter
was actually put on my file. -
8:30 - 8:33And my work was called
"a dog's breakfast." -
8:34 - 8:38Now, I know that you know
that this kind of intimidation -
8:38 - 8:41is actually not that uncommon
with breakthrough science, -
8:41 - 8:44especially if it challenges
the status quo. -
8:46 - 8:49Knowing this, this didn't stop me.
-
8:49 - 8:52I knew that my science
was sound and rigorous, -
8:52 - 8:55and I knew that one day it could change
the way we view the environment. -
8:56 - 9:00So, really motivated,
I returned to my original question, -
9:00 - 9:03because I still
hadn't quite answered it yet. -
9:03 - 9:07And I wondered,
could these webs, these networks, -
9:07 - 9:11serve as more than just avenues
of exchange of carbon and nutrients -
9:11 - 9:12and water.
-
9:12 - 9:15Could a tree
that's under stress, diseased, -
9:15 - 9:18actually benefit
from the health of its neighbors? -
9:18 - 9:20Could birch be helping fir?
-
9:20 - 9:24So, I did some more experiments,
and it turns out, it does. -
9:25 - 9:27When Douglas fir
is under stress or disease, -
9:27 - 9:30it sends warning signals to its neighbors,
-
9:30 - 9:35and the neighbors respond by increasing
production of their defense enzymes, -
9:35 - 9:37and they're more resistant to disease.
-
9:38 - 9:40And if that neighbor is a birch tree,
-
9:40 - 9:44the fir benefits from
the antibiotic-producing bacteria -
9:44 - 9:46that are associated
with this shared network. -
9:47 - 9:49It's like a public immunization system.
-
9:50 - 9:53And I wondered, could there be more
than defense signals moving? -
9:53 - 9:57Well, it turns out that trees
can actually recognize, -
9:57 - 9:59transmit messages to their relatives.
-
10:01 - 10:07A mother tree can recognize
whether seedlings in her neighborhood -
10:07 - 10:09are her kin or strangers.
-
10:09 - 10:13She sends more carbon
to kin seedlings than to strangers. -
10:14 - 10:16And if the mother tree is injured,
-
10:16 - 10:19she sends even more carbon
to her kin seedlings. -
10:20 - 10:25It's as though she's passing her energy,
her legacy, to the next generation. -
10:26 - 10:28Now, when I look at all this together,
-
10:29 - 10:32it's as though these trees
are sharing their deepest secrets. -
10:33 - 10:35This is breakthrough stuff.
-
10:36 - 10:38It's pretty exciting.
-
10:38 - 10:42You know, at the time,
there were actually many articles written, -
10:42 - 10:44Popular Science,
-
10:44 - 10:46documentary films,
-
10:46 - 10:51the word was getting out,
and I was really, really excited. -
10:53 - 10:54But I got cancer.
-
10:58 - 10:59And that was really awful.
-
11:02 - 11:04But you know,
the beautiful thing about this -
11:04 - 11:08is that it re-connected me with my people.
-
11:09 - 11:14My people, my family, looked after me.
-
11:14 - 11:16They held me.
-
11:17 - 11:18They helped me up the stairs.
-
11:18 - 11:20They cooked my meals.
-
11:21 - 11:23They looked after my children.
-
11:23 - 11:24They saved me.
-
11:26 - 11:31And back in the hospital,
I made even more connections, -
11:31 - 11:33strong ones,
-
11:33 - 11:36with other women fighting breast cancer.
-
11:37 - 11:39And we were really afraid,
-
11:40 - 11:42and we cried.
-
11:43 - 11:45But we also laughed.
-
11:46 - 11:48We still do every day.
-
11:49 - 11:52We've become so tight,
we're like this tapestry -
11:53 - 11:55that's knit together in a tight weave.
-
11:55 - 12:00When one of us stumbles or bends,
the others are right there to pick her up. -
12:03 - 12:05What I've learned through all this,
-
12:05 - 12:09is what my forests
have been trying to tell me all along - -
12:09 - 12:12that these connections
are crucial to our well-being. -
12:13 - 12:15They're not easily seen,
-
12:15 - 12:16but they're real.
-
12:17 - 12:19And you know what? I'm living proof.
-
12:20 - 12:21And I'm really grateful.
-
12:21 - 12:23(Applause)
-
12:30 - 12:31Thank you.
-
12:32 - 12:36Now that I'm strong and healthy again,
I've returned to my science, -
12:37 - 12:39and I'm asking other questions.
-
12:40 - 12:43My first, and the most important
question to me is, -
12:43 - 12:48what can our discoveries tell us
about how to deal with our biggest threat? -
12:48 - 12:49Climate change.
-
12:50 - 12:52Yeah, climate change is no hoax.
-
12:52 - 12:54In fact, we can't kid ourselves,
-
12:54 - 12:58there is no fancy engineering
that's going to get us out of this mess. -
13:00 - 13:05What my discoveries have shown me,
is that the answer, the solution, -
13:05 - 13:08lies in our relationship with nature.
-
13:09 - 13:13And in doing this research,
I went to the Aboriginal people. -
13:13 - 13:15I'm doing my research
with Aboriginal people -
13:15 - 13:19who are, as you know,
dependent on the salmon, -
13:19 - 13:22have a long relationship
of stewardship of the salmon -
13:22 - 13:27which then helps with their livelihood,
it is crucial to their livelihood. -
13:27 - 13:30So, in the fall, when the salmon
are spawning in the rivers, -
13:31 - 13:33the bears come down to the river,
-
13:33 - 13:36and the wolves, and they feed
on the salmon in the spawning rivers, -
13:36 - 13:40and they carry the salmon
up into the forest. -
13:40 - 13:42And underneath the big, old mother trees,
-
13:42 - 13:45under the sheltering crowns
of the mother trees, -
13:45 - 13:46they feed on the salmon.
-
13:46 - 13:51And in the fall, the leftovers decay
and seep into the ground. -
13:51 - 13:53And we think
-
13:53 - 13:56that the big mycorrhizal networks
of those mother trees -
13:56 - 13:57soak up that nitrogen.
-
13:57 - 14:01And scientists have discovered
traces of salmon nitrogen -
14:01 - 14:04in the tree rings,
stored there for centuries. -
14:05 - 14:09And what we're going to do this summer
is go back to these forests, -
14:09 - 14:13and we're going to trace whether nitrogen
- and we think this is happening - -
14:13 - 14:15moves from mother trees
to their neighbors, -
14:15 - 14:19from tree to tree to tree,
deep into the forest. -
14:19 - 14:22And we think this is tied
to the health of the forest, -
14:22 - 14:25which of course is tied
to the health of the rivers, -
14:25 - 14:30which of course is linked to the salmon,
and the health of the salmon populations, -
14:30 - 14:35which of course, feeds back to the oceans,
and comes back to us, the people. -
14:36 - 14:38Now, this circle of life,
-
14:39 - 14:43what our Aboriginal ancestors
have called 'reciprocity,' -
14:43 - 14:45is the trading of mutual respect.
-
14:47 - 14:51And this is a really good example
of what scientists are calling -
14:51 - 14:53'complex adaptive systems.'
-
14:54 - 14:58Now look, forests
are built on relationships. -
14:59 - 15:03In a healthy forest, everything
is connected, and communicating. -
15:03 - 15:06Here, these nodes represent the species.
-
15:07 - 15:09And they're constantly
relating to each other. -
15:09 - 15:14And it's out of their interactions
that emerges what scientists are calling -
15:14 - 15:16'complex adaptive behaviors,'
-
15:16 - 15:19or higher system level properties.
-
15:19 - 15:21Things like resilience and health,
-
15:21 - 15:24the cycling of clean air and clean water.
-
15:25 - 15:29But you know, in modern society,
we view ourselves separate from this, -
15:30 - 15:34somehow entitled, or superior,
-
15:34 - 15:38or at the minimum, we take it for granted.
-
15:39 - 15:41But the thing is,
when we take out key parts, -
15:41 - 15:42like the grizzly bears,
-
15:43 - 15:45and we trash the salmon populations,
-
15:45 - 15:48these systems rapidly degrade
-
15:48 - 15:51into what we're calling
'wicked stable states.' -
15:51 - 15:54Now, this is not somewhere we want to go.
-
15:54 - 15:57Wicked stable states are unpredictable,
-
15:57 - 15:58they're contradictory.
-
15:58 - 16:02When you try to fix one problem,
another problem shows up over here. -
16:03 - 16:05And the way things are going, right now,
-
16:06 - 16:08with our forests
dying from climate change, -
16:08 - 16:11which feeds back to more climate change,
-
16:11 - 16:13this is happening really fast.
-
16:16 - 16:18But here's the beautiful thing:
-
16:18 - 16:22It's precisely because
they're complex adaptive systems -
16:22 - 16:24poised for change,
-
16:24 - 16:28that we can change this trajectory
from negative to positive. -
16:29 - 16:30Here's how we do this.
-
16:31 - 16:38First, we've got to re-imagine ourselves
as part of this network. -
16:38 - 16:42Imagine yourself listening
to all the other creatures. -
16:42 - 16:48We can tap into that below-ground network
and become part of the conversation. -
16:50 - 16:54If we'd done this, we would never
have cut birch out of those forests, -
16:54 - 16:55the Douglas fir forests,
-
16:55 - 16:58because we would have known it undermines
the resilience of the forest. -
16:59 - 17:00But we're still doing that.
-
17:02 - 17:04But I'm still very hopeful,
-
17:04 - 17:07because I know that once we tap into
this complex adaptive system, -
17:07 - 17:09into our role in it,
-
17:09 - 17:13we can change our thinking,
we can change our behavior. -
17:13 - 17:16We can become part of this great system.
-
17:17 - 17:21Remember when birch
was sending nutrients to fir, -
17:22 - 17:24and fir was sending them
back to birch, remember that? -
17:25 - 17:29Well, this just proves
that in ecosystems, there is no bigotry, -
17:29 - 17:31there's only reciprocity,
-
17:31 - 17:33only mutual respect.
-
17:34 - 17:36Just like in my cancer support network.
-
17:37 - 17:38That's what we practice.
-
17:41 - 17:42So finally, thirdly,
-
17:43 - 17:45I know that once we understand
-
17:46 - 17:51that we are deeply part of nature,
-
17:51 - 17:52really part of nature,
-
17:53 - 17:54not separate,
-
17:55 - 17:59that we can become
part of the great strengthening, -
17:59 - 18:01that positive trajectory.
-
18:01 - 18:06We have to stop treating nature
as our shopping mall, -
18:07 - 18:10and once we do that,
we can change the arc of the future. -
18:13 - 18:17Once, I thought that fairies
connected and protected the forest, -
18:17 - 18:21and now with my science,
I know I wasn't that far off. -
18:21 - 18:23(Laughter)
-
18:26 - 18:32Using science, I've shown that precisely,
these unseen connections exist, -
18:32 - 18:36just like the Coast Salish
have been telling us all along. -
18:37 - 18:40They've shown, the science has shown,
that everything is connected -
18:40 - 18:41and communicating,
-
18:41 - 18:44with respect and reciprocity.
-
18:44 - 18:48And out of this comes balance
in our communities and our ecosystems. -
18:48 - 18:51And it's based on principles like kinship,
-
18:51 - 18:53respect of elders,
-
18:53 - 18:56and this gives rise
to complexity and adaptability. -
18:56 - 19:00And out of this, of course,
we have resilience. -
19:00 - 19:04Resilience to deal with things
like climate change. -
19:06 - 19:09So, I want to leave you
with one final, hopeful message. -
19:12 - 19:18I know, based on my experience,
and in my science, -
19:18 - 19:20that you, too, can own this,
-
19:21 - 19:22that we are one.
-
19:23 - 19:24Thank you very much.
-
19:24 - 19:27(Applause)
- Title:
- Nature's internet: how trees talk to each other in a healthy forest | Suzanne Simard | TEDxSeattle
- Description:
-
This fascinating talk presents the scientific research that shows the interconnectedness of life in the forest ecosystem. It takes us beneath the forest floor where we learn how trees are communicating and exchanging resources. Going beyond the simple view of a forest as a resource to be exploited, it presents the forest as a complex network of life. Her examination of the relationships that make up the complexity of nature present compelling support for the idea that “We are all one.”
Suzanne Simard studies the surprising and delicate complexity in nature. Her main focus is on the below-ground fungal networks that connect trees and facilitate underground inter-tree communication and interaction. Her team's analysis revealed that the fungi networks move water, carbon and nutrients such as nitrogen between and among trees as well as across species. The research has demonstrated that these complex, symbiotic networks in our forests -- at the hub of which stand what she calls the "mother trees" -- mimic our own neural and social networks. This groundbreaking work on symbiotic plant communication has far-reaching implications in both the forestry and agricultural industries, in particular concerning sustainable stewardship of forest's and the plant’s resistance to pathogens. She works primarily in forests, but also grasslands, wetlands, tundra and alpine ecosystems.
This talk was given at a TEDx event using the TED conference format but independently organized by a local community. Learn more at http://ted.com/tedx
- Video Language:
- English
- Team:
- closed TED
- Project:
- TEDxTalks
- Duration:
- 19:33