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Showing Revision 1 created 06/30/2020 by KikiFebriyanti.

  1. Hi, everybody! This is my small talk show
  2. about people who inspire me
  3. and people who motivate me to do smth
  4. So, today's guest is
  5. Kiki Febriyanti
  6. an independent filmmaker from Indonesia
  7. Hi, Kiki! How are you?
  8. Hi, I'm okay, how are you?
  9. I'm also okay
  10. I'm fine, thank you so much!
  11. Thank you so much for joining me today
  12. I suppose it's very important we have this conversation
  13. because I really want audience
  14. to know your way and your path
  15. and I also would like to ask you
  16. what it is to be an independent filmmaker
  17. today in this era, in this period
  18. but let's start from the beginning
  19. maybe you can tell us a little bit
  20. what urged your interest in filmmaking?
  21. How did you start?
  22. Well, it's long story
  23. haha but let's make it short
  24. because I have to be back to my childhood
  25. so, at the beginning
  26. at first actually I was inspired by
  27. best friend of my grandparents
  28. and he was a photojournalist
  29. so he often showed me his works
  30. and then I was thinking okay
  31. I will become photojournalist too
  32. just like him
  33. also my family loved watching movies
  34. and my parents
  35. my grandma my parents
  36. they often took me to
  37. to watch movies in cinema
  38. just nearby my house
  39. we just took a walk 5 minutes and it's already there
  40. and then
  41. I think
  42. the guy who worked there as cleaner
  43. already got used to
  44. got used to me
  45. like in the cinema, so
  46. usually before the cinema opens
  47. he invited me
  48. to just play inside
  49. just to take a look at the posters
  50. of the movies
  51. and just sit
  52. inside of the cinema before
  53. there are
  54. another audience
  55. so that's how I was interested in film
  56. so, it was from your very childhood
  57. when you were just a kid
  58. and then in 2008 there was
  59. when I was in university there was
  60. documentary filmmaking workshop In-Docs
  61. it came to my university in Jember
  62. East Java. East Java? yeah
  63. and then
  64. I tried to join this event
  65. and then I was selected
  66. my story was selected to
  67. to receive scholarship to be produced
  68. and then
  69. that's how I started filmmaking
  70. so, in 2008
  71. I made my first documentary film
  72. so, it was like 12 years ago
  73. yeah, yes 12 years ago
  74. What was your first film? What was it about?
  75. It was about two persons
  76. who
  77. they were labelized
  78. as they have
  79. mental illness
  80. and
  81. I made the story about them about their feelings
  82. about their life
  83. How they struggle to
  84. to be accepted in society
  85. in their family
  86. and their environment
  87. so, it was about
  88. mental illness and
  89. it was about the place
  90. about the asylum, yes, because
  91. I've watched your film I know a little bit the plot
  92. yes, at the beginning it opened
  93. the founder told me it was just
  94. the place for learning Koran
  95. like reading Koran, but then
  96. many people came just
  97. to shelter these people
  98. so it became this kind of place
  99. like shelter for people
  100. with mental problems
  101. okay so yeah
  102. How did you find this story? How did you find
  103. these people? How did you find your subjects?
  104. actually
  105. I already
  106. was kind of like friends
  107. with the founder
  108. of Islamic boarding house
  109. The Al Ghafur boarding house
  110. because my mom
  111. was working as teacher
  112. in the elementary school
  113. near the boarding house
  114. that's how I knew him
  115. and I often curious
  116. because these people
  117. these people who stay there
  118. people with mental illness
  119. what people said
  120. just freely walked
  121. freely
  122. communicated with people
  123. in neighbourhood
  124. so they are not like in asylum
  125. like we think
  126. inside of the room they cannot go outside
  127. on the contrary, they are
  128. they make interaction
  129. make interaction with locals there
  130. that's what interesting
  131. for me yeah
  132. but I mean that this topic is
  133. quite specific yes and it's
  134. huuuh yeah
  135. like at the beginning
  136. usually we think they are dangerous
  137. they are
  138. we need to avoid them or smth like that
  139. but what I
  140. always learned from my childhood like
  141. they're just like us, they're just
  142. no difference with me
  143. they can communicate with people,
  144. they can socialize
  145. they can work and I'm thinking
  146. How is their life
  147. actually?
  148. facing the situation
  149. facing the society, facing their family
  150. it's interesting for me, it's just like
  151. how I see myself through
  152. through these people, through my subjects
  153. that's how and that's why
  154. I made this film
  155. How did your subjects react
  156. when they saw the camera?
  157. yeah actually it's funny thing
  158. yeah how the subject react to the camera
  159. in my case
  160. in that first film like
  161. the subject was
  162. I tried to make them like to get used to it
  163. with the camera
  164. so during the research I also brought
  165. I brought camera
  166. so they kind of got used to it
  167. and they were like okay with this
  168. like on the contrary
  169. one of the crew
  170. that I brought to the location
  171. who
  172. supposedly was asked to record this
  173. because I was directing
  174. so I tried to communicate with the subject
  175. and he needed to record
  176. he cannot, he's like nervous
  177. so somehow
  178. what unexpected
  179. reaction was not from the subject
  180. but from one of the crew
  181. yeah
  182. well actually this question
  183. always makes me wonder
  184. How do subjects
  185. any subjects react to the camera, yes?
  186. If we're talking about documentary filmmaking
  187. that's why I'm always interested in that
  188. I'm really happy you made this film
  189. and it is open if I'm not mistaken?
  190. so, the audience can watch
  191. yes, it's in the website called
  192. cultureunplugged,com
  193. so we can put it below
  194. sure
  195. and if I'm not mistaken you were selected
  196. with this film at
  197. different film festivals
  198. and you also attended
  199. STEPS International
  200. Film Festival of Human Rights
  201. In Ukraine, in Kharkiv. in Ukraine, yes
  202. in 2013, right?
  203. 2014, if I'm not mistaken
  204. it was long time ago
  205. no no no, it was in 2013, Ki
  206. ahhhh okay
  207. right? it was in 2013
  208. yes yes
  209. You received the award
  210. within that festival
  211. you received an award for being
  212. the best documentary filmmaker
  213. and it was exactly with the film
  214. Jangan bilang aku gila / Don't call me crazy
  215. yeah
  216. Maybe you can tell us a little bit about your experience
  217. My first festival was in India
  218. it was selected in India
  219. for me to screen
  220. my film for the audience
  221. to wider audience it's already
  222. kind of like happiness yeah
  223. cause it is my goal
  224. to give awareness to
  225. people about this situation
  226. about my subject
  227. about the condition yeah
  228. and then when they
  229. I mean the festival gave me this award
  230. it's like a bonus
  231. because for me it's already happiness
  232. that people know the condition there
  233. in my hometown
  234. with these people
  235. so, yeah it's like a bonus
  236. it's like an extra happiness
  237. plus
  238. The Ambassador of Indonesia to Ukraine
  239. also attended Festival
  240. and she and the stuff
  241. also were very supportive
  242. so yeah, I was very happy with that
  243. you were happy to share with the audience, right
  244. to share the story
  245. yes, I can understand you so well
  246. Can I ask you about your second film?
  247. which was also independent and it was
  248. "Yup, it's my body"
  249. yes yeah
  250. How did you choose the topic and the subject?
  251. maybe you can tell us a little bit about that film
  252. So, actually this
  253. the second film "Yup, it's my body"
  254. I made that it's like
  255. a diary
  256. because I was about
  257. to graduate from
  258. my university soon
  259. and all those years I stayed
  260. with them with my subjects
  261. which were also my roommates
  262. my flatmates in boarding house
  263. and I noticed like some habit
  264. of us
  265. of all of us...like
  266. we always discussed about the body image
  267. I try to diet with this way I try to diet this way
  268. and It's like I asked them
  269. Why do you do this? What for?
  270. In my boarding house that time
  271. most of them tried to lose weight
  272. especially one of the closest friend
  273. her name is Sara
  274. she more often to share with me
  275. about her life her way something like that
  276. cause we're like family in that boarding house
  277. so I tried to document that
  278. as kind of like memorabilia
  279. so I recorded
  280. I started recording with
  281. Mini DV
  282. so I used that to record
  283. at the beginning I used to record
  284. the activities and situation in my boarding house
  285. with that handycam
  286. and the cassette
  287. at first I was using
  288. actually recycled
  289. cassette
  290. so I didn't buy
  291. I got the cassette the mini DV
  292. from the recycled wedding shooting
  293. and one of my friend
  294. he was a journalist in television
  295. so the cassette that he already digitize
  296. he gave me
  297. so I kind of like
  298. used that cassette again
  299. and then In-Docs somehow
  300. I read the announcement that
  301. In-Docs opened again scholarship
  302. like for masterclass
  303. so I applied with this story
  304. that actually I'd already recorded before
  305. so, I just went deeper with this topic
  306. about the body image
  307. Nowadays, the topic of body positivity
  308. became an agenda yes
  309. and your film "Yup, it's my body" is 2009?
  310. nine, nine yeah
  311. so it was like 11 years ago
  312. raising the topic of
  313. body positivity, yes
  314. so, you were ahead of the time I suppose
  315. right?
  316. yeah, I suppose this kind of issue like
  317. yeah, it's so bad that for a long time
  318. still we need to
  319. we have still this kind of issue
  320. Kiki, it's very nice
  321. you lead the conversation into cassette way
  322. yes and into
  323. so, as I understand
  324. like 12 years ago you still could witness
  325. the pre-digital era
  326. you still could work exactly with films maybe
  327. maybe you can tell us a little bit about that
  328. Do you see the difference in
  329. analog filmmaking and digital filmmaking
  330. Actually it's kind of like
  331. quite different like
  332. because when it was analog
  333. of course it cost a lot yeah
  334. if we talk about production
  335. because you need to buy cassette mini DV
  336. and one cassette is
  337. approximately like 20 000 IDR
  338. like 2 USD probably that time
  339. and then one cassette
  340. can record like 60 minutes
  341. like 1 hour approximately
  342. and now you can just have
  343. SD Card ...or
  344. just memory card, so all digital
  345. so, anytime you can just record whatever you want
  346. whatever you like
  347. and then you just transfer it to
  348. Harddisk or your computer
  349. and that's it, so
  350. and you can reuse it all the time
  351. yeah, I mean, you just buy
  352. once or twice
  353. or just bring a couple, but you can repeat
  354. using this card like all the time
  355. no need to worry that
  356. in urgent situation
  357. in such kind of situation
  358. that you finish the cassette, right
  359. yeah and also
  360. the thing is
  361. I feel at least myself
  362. I feel like
  363. wth mini dV cassette
  364. it's like
  365. we trained to be more discipline
  366. I trained more discipline
  367. with this because I need to
  368. more precisely think about the budget
  369. think about the time
  370. something like that
  371. I even...
  372. so, you have limitations, I mean like
  373. with analog filmmaking you have some limitations
  374. yes, I have some limitations, but
  375. there are also kind of
  376. like pros and cons, of course, yeah
  377. that time I
  378. I remember because I do everything by myself
  379. I put mark in the
  380. in the cassette because always like sticker there
  381. during the editing and post-production
  382. I sat next to my
  383. editor
  384. I can remember precisely
  385. okay, this footage is
  386. in the cassette number this or this
  387. and the time code is approximately
  388. these kind of minutes, seconds
  389. maybe a little bit different yeah
  390. but I can remember like this
  391. yes, it's easier because we have
  392. yeah, I still save my mini DV cassette, so
  393. sometimes I try to remember
  394. ohh, that time when I shot film I needed to
  395. really remember these things
  396. yeah, that's about the production and then
  397. and then also later about distribution
  398. it was
  399. of course more expensive that time
  400. rather than now, it's much much cheaper
  401. because we can do it online yeah
  402. Kiki, I know also
  403. that you are working as a film crew
  404. in different projects
  405. sometimes you become director
  406. sometimes you become assistant of the director
  407. sometimes you become producer
  408. and you're working not only with documentaries
  409. but with different media
  410. maybe you can share with us
  411. a little bit about the shooting process
  412. the shooting process itself
  413. What is the shooting process for you?
  414. It's different, every production has
  415. has different kind of type
  416. I mean let's make it
  417. something more general like between
  418. documentary and non-documentary, for instance
  419. in non-documentary usually
  420. we have more crew
  421. non-documentary, fiction
  422. fiction or it can be
  423. advertisement or something like that
  424. anything that
  425. which is not documentary
  426. usually we
  427. at least in my situation,
  428. in my case
  429. I had
  430. experience of work with more crew
  431. for non-documentary
  432. and for documentary I prefer
  433. at least so far
  434. I prefer to work
  435. with smaller crew
  436. and usually in documentary
  437. I can choose my own crew
  438. I prefer to choose my own crew
  439. whom I already know
  440. like we already know each other
  441. the pace, the character and everything
  442. because how we communicate
  443. we don't always agree with each other
  444. but we already understand
  445. "the language"
  446. so, it's like in documentaries you prefer
  447. to have a chamber crew
  448. just like a couple
  449. yeah, like more intimacy
  450. yes yes yes, I understand
  451. okay, Kiki and what is
  452. because you know in Facebook and everywhere
  453. I'm following these groups
  454. about filmmaking
  455. funny groups, I mean yes
  456. and a lot of people are saying that it is
  457. very very hard work
  458. you know that I also
  459. took part in some shootings
  460. and
  461. I remember
  462. It was a very big surprise for me
  463. when I came to the shooting location
  464. and
  465. everything ended like in 24 hours
  466. so I had
  467. 24 hours shooting day
  468. and it was a disaster for me
  469. somehow when you're in the shooting process
  470. you don't see the time flies
  471. you don't see that, you don't feel that
  472. somehow it was really amazing for me
  473. and somehow I was really into that
  474. and I suppose if you're working in that field
  475. for already more than 10 years
  476. probably it also gets your attention
  477. and gets your interest in that
  478. maybe you can give advise to young filmmakers
  479. What is it to be in the shooting process?
  480. Do you like that? What is that?
  481. yes, if we talk about
  482. non-documentary, for instance
  483. there is actually always time
  484. we have call sheet, we have schedule
  485. like crew call is at this time
  486. for instance, 6 a.m. or 5 a.m
  487. and then we gather and prepare and evrth
  488. and then
  489. we start shooting at 7 a.m. or smth like that
  490. and we supposedly
  491. finish shooting at this time, for instance
  492. in non-documentary, it's
  493. kind of like actually
  494. more precise about the time
  495. but in documentary we don't have
  496. we don't have this specific time
  497. we shoot based on our research actually
  498. but of course
  499. we got used to it, we know
  500. ohh okay, my character usually
  501. wakes up at this time, usually this time
  502. she goes to school
  503. or at this time usually
  504. she goes to pray, e t.c
  505. but during the shooting it can be different
  506. changing
  507. sometimes changing totally
  508. so, that's how we adjust
  509. if there is unexpected moment
  510. in the middle of the night
  511. or very early in the morning
  512. in documentary I feel that my brain
  513. always stand-by even
  514. while I was sleeping I also feel
  515. like my brain is also working, you know
  516. yes yes
  517. like I need to be aware all the time during the
  518. documentary shooting
  519. because you are following the subject
  520. or the subjects
  521. because you are following your story
  522. many people think when I meet
  523. people, friends or family
  524. or just strangers
  525. who knew that
  526. ohh you're working in film ohh it must be cool
  527. you travel a lot
  528. it will be like red carpet
  529. you met celebrities
  530. must be you have nice
  531. kind of photos
  532. for your
  533. social media like behind the camera
  534. holding clapper board
  535. or something like that yeah
  536. it is cute things about this
  537. but it's not only about that
  538. actually many things happen that
  539. because you need to love and
  540. have passion
  541. in it
  542. because it is not
  543. I would say
  544. it's not easy work, you know
  545. and for me it's not just work
  546. it's just not profession
  547. but it's part of life
  548. so, if you don't love it
  549. it's even harder
  550. probably yes
  551. honestly, I don't really know that
  552. we have like precise
  553. time schedule
  554. time working
  555. like, for instance, if people who work in office
  556. they have specific time like 9 to 5
  557. but in film we don't have this
  558. because sometimes we have to
  559. catch some moment
  560. like we need to shoot
  561. sun goes down or sun goes up
  562. like sunrise, sunset
  563. for instance, yeah , just an example
  564. something that explicit
  565. that is easy to explain
  566. many things like that
  567. and I agree with you absolutely that
  568. if a person has no passion about that
  569. it's very hard
  570. because it is hard for people who have passion in that
  571. yes, who have passion in filmmaking
  572. and maybe you can tell us a little bit about
  573. your independent way of post-production
  574. you go further to post-production
  575. post-production is editing
  576. and then an independent filmmaker
  577. needs to go to distribution
  578. so, what is your way?
  579. What is your treatment in these two positions?
  580. yeah it is different in every filmmaker
  581. they have different goals
  582. some of them not really prefer
  583. I know some people who don't want to distribute
  584. so, they made like
  585. They prefer not to screen in the festival, for instance
  586. but only for the community
  587. some of them only
  588. want to screen in the festival, but
  589. not online, for instance, if we talk about nowadays
  590. but for me
  591. if we talk in general
  592. I want
  593. when I make films
  594. I want to show it to people
  595. to audience
  596. for independent filmmakers
  597. usually we don't have
  598. producer or
  599. we don't have special publicist
  600. or distributor
  601. we usually distribute our films
  602. by ourselves
  603. so, that's what I do
  604. Thank you
  605. How do you usually distribute?
  606. What kind of way do you use?
  607. I mean like
  608. I know there are a lot of platforms nowadays
  609. like Filmfreeway or smth else
  610. you can apply online
  611. maybe you can tell us a little bit about that
  612. actually it's
  613. very big difference if we talk about the past and now
  614. because in the past
  615. we need more cost
  616. to submit our film because we need to make copy
  617. of our film in mini DV or
  618. VCD yeah later we had VCD
  619. and then DVD
  620. we have to
  621. send a copy of our film to the festival
  622. through courier through post-office
  623. or something like that
  624. and if the festival
  625. is abroad, for instance
  626. of course, it cost extra
  627. to use the post services, right?
  628. yes yes
  629. and if they request our film
  630. usually they will cover the cost
  631. but if we submit
  632. our film
  633. it means the cost is on us
  634. Nowadays, it's already online
  635. that you, basically you don't need to pay anything
  636. there are a lot of film festivals
  637. that you don't need to pay
  638. for free, yes
  639. the submission is for free
  640. submission is for free
  641. you just need to upload your film
  642. through internet platform
  643. it's like maybe Dropbox,
  644. Wetransfer, Filmfreeway, Mega
  645. many things
  646. Filmfreeway, Filmdepot
  647. many many platforms nowadays
  648. and also because of this digital way
  649. also more and more
  650. maybe we cannot count
  651. like thousands millions film festivals
  652. as well that we don't know
  653. and it gives more chance
  654. for us to try as well
  655. to distribute our film which is cheaper
  656. and perhaps easier as well
  657. How do you think, Kiki, is it easy and
  658. is it easy to be an independent filmmaker?
  659. How do independent filmmakers
  660. usually search for funds?
  661. because I know that funding films
  662. is not an easy way, yes
  663. yeah
  664. ahh yeah
  665. to make the film that is
  666. really your idea
  667. really you feel
  668. you really want to make
  669. this certain project
  670. it's not easy because
  671. sometimes we apply or submit for some
  672. grant, or people, or organisation
  673. it's not easy because
  674. there are also tons of filmmakers
  675. who also apply to the same programme
  676. Exactly
  677. Sometimes we are not selected
  678. I believe that sometimes
  679. if we are not selected
  680. it doesn't mean that your film is bad
  681. or your project is not good
  682. sometimes it's about the taste as well
  683. Some people also do some business
  684. or do another job like
  685. and they save some money to
  686. to make film
  687. that they like
  688. I know there are some filmmakers who are farmers
  689. I know
  690. another filmmakers who are civil servants actually
  691. or they have another job
  692. or me, like I become
  693. I'm a freelancer as crew
  694. in any kind of department
  695. in film production in Jakarta
  696. I mean if you're really passionate
  697. about film
  698. often sometimes people think
  699. ohh you work in film you must
  700. have a lot of money
  701. it can be yes or no
  702. sometimes the goals of working
  703. when we have money we try to
  704. to pay our rent first, to buy food
  705. like the basic things
  706. we try to provide ourselves
  707. Pyramid of Maslow, yes
  708. yeah
  709. but what, usually, at least me
  710. when I am at work
  711. or when I receive
  712. call for project or smth
  713. what came to my mind usually
  714. okay, I will save some money
  715. it means
  716. if they mention like this is the fee
  717. this is the budget
  718. so usually I think
  719. okay, so this is just enough
  720. for my food, for instance
  721. or this is just enough for my rent
  722. but what comes to my mind always
  723. okay, I need to save money for my
  724. my next project
  725. that's the first thing that comes to my mind
  726. to have even just a little bit
  727. even just like 50 000 IDR to save for
  728. your film, your next project
  729. okay, Kiki, so I understood that
  730. like a lot of independent artists
  731. and independent filmmakers
  732. you are just trying to
  733. make money from your freelance job
  734. but somehow this freelance job turned out
  735. to be filmmaking in your case
  736. so, you are filmmaker
  737. filmmaking crew
  738. working for your own independent films
  739. yeah so it's like...
  740. but that's life, yes
  741. and I would like to ask you
  742. about your latest projects
  743. one of them is
  744. documentary film "Calalai"
  745. yes, documentary film "Calalai"
  746. you can tell us a little bit about that
  747. so, my latest project
  748. one is documentary
  749. the title is "Calalai In-betweenness"
  750. it's about the 5th gender
  751. in Indonesia in Bugis culture
  752. in South Sulawesi island
  753. they believe in five genders
  754. which is written in La Galigo manuscript
  755. that humans consist of five genders
  756. male, female, bissu
  757. they are like shamans, like the priest
  758. and then calabai
  759. and calalai
  760. and I made about Calalai
  761. so, it's like they
  762. I mean the Bugis people they have their own system
  763. which is beyond
  764. like they are very great I think
  765. very interesting for me
  766. yes it is, yes it is
  767. I suppose it is also interesting for
  768. nowadays society, because
  769. the more
  770. like every day the agenda of different roles
  771. the society roles, yes
  772. and gender
  773. we discuss it...
  774. yeah, because nowadays also
  775. I mean not only now
  776. many men actually
  777. they become like
  778. work at home
  779. like taking care of the kid
  780. like become the father
  781. and they are not working in the office, for instance
  782. and the wife who is working in the office
  783. which is in some... society
  784. it's like strange or not common
  785. but for
  786. I mean, as long as I learn,
  787. thats' why I made this film
  788. in Bugis society it's okay
  789. or if women work in construction
  790. women become engineers,
  791. technicians or
  792. filmmakers, journalists, police
  793. police officers or smth like that
  794. or even president
  795. it is not smth like...
  796. strange
  797. for Bugis society
  798. I'm not Bugis but so far
  799. thats's what I learned about them
  800. so, Calalai is smth like that
  801. so, if you are
  802. biologically woman
  803. it's okay
  804. for instance, you now become filmmaker
  805. which some people consider this as men's world
  806. yes, a lot of professions in our world
  807. considered to be "men's"
  808. yes yes
  809. okay, Kiki and I also want to ask you
  810. about your latest project
  811. the film "Roti" that
  812. means 'bread" in English
  813. if I'm not mistaken, it is a
  814. microfilm, right?
  815. yes, the duration is only
  816. 30 seconds
  817. it's a fiction, but based on a true story
  818. oh, but if it's based on a true story, don't tell us the story
  819. because it's only 30 secods
  820. so, don't spoil anything, yeah
  821. no spoilers
  822. yeah
  823. but it will be screened online
  824. actually already screened in
  825. film festival
  826. Feminist Film Festival in Berlin
  827. and during this Corona time they will screen again
  828. the selected films
  829. online
  830. okay, so maybe we can also give any link
  831. or information below the video
  832. okay, Kiki, I think I will
  833. try to finish our conversation
  834. even though it's very interesting
  835. and very useful to get all these
  836. stories from you
  837. What do you...
  838. Are you in the process of smth
  839. during these Coronavirus times?
  840. or smth like this quarantine?
  841. Do you have any plans any future projects?
  842. so, yeah, during this Corona time
  843. which is we're already in quarantine
  844. all of us
  845. perhaps, most of us in quarantine
  846. I'm working on
  847. video project
  848. which is I'm doing it in documentary way
  849. in the treatment
  850. but the result will be like video art
  851. like experimental
  852. so, you like this moving images
  853. language, yes
  854. I actually love it so much as well
  855. yeah, I mean
  856. video, audio-visual I like
  857. I like audio-visual, I like video so much
  858. besides as maker I also
  859. enjoy it as audience
  860. I love to spend my time watching
  861. short short videos or films
  862. or I spend time in..
  863. before the Corona time I liked to spend time
  864. just go to the cinema
  865. yes, yes
  866. I can clearly understand you
  867. so, that's the language that you like to
  868. consume and that you like to produce, right?
  869. yeah yeah
  870. okay, Kiki,
  871. thank you so much for having this conversation with me
  872. I'm really glad about that
  873. I hope we can meet again
  874. and discuss maybe some other topics
  875. and maybe we can discuss your next project
  876. when you're already done
  877. when this Coronavirus is done, yes
  878. hopefully
  879. hopefully, yeah
  880. Thank you so much for having me
  881. Thank you so much, Kiki, for sharing everything
  882. Sampai jumpa! ( See you!)
  883. until we meet again
  884. Bye bye!
  885. and now I need to end the meeting, yes
  886. you see this Coronavirus
  887. gives us different challenges
  888. awkwardness
  889. hahaha awkwardness
  890. it's okay, still recording I know
  891. because we've already said goodbye to each other
  892. but I need to find
  893. alright, okay
  894. the button of Ending the meeting
  895. I think I'm done
  896. thank you so much, bye bye
  897. thank you thank you
  898. Bye bye!