-
David Biello: It's now
my great honor and privilege
-
to introduce Dr. Georges Benjamin,
-
who's the executive director
of the American Public Health Association,
-
who has a long and distinguished career,
-
both as a medical professional
and as a public health professional.
-
Please give a warm welcome
to Dr. Georges Benjamin.
-
Georges Benjamin: Hey, David, how are you?
-
DB: I am good, how are you, Dr.Benjamin?
-
GB: I'm here. (Laughs)
-
DB: Hanging in there. Good.
-
GB: Hanging in.
-
DB: We know that the theme of the moment
is reopening, I would say.
-
We just heard one possibility for that,
-
but obviously,
-
a lot of countries have already
reopened in one form or another,
-
and I believe, as of today,
-
all 50 states here in the US
have reopened in one form or another.
-
How do we do that smartly,
how do we do that safely?
-
GB: Yeah, we really do need
to reopen safely and carefully,
-
and it means that we have not
got to forget these public health measures
-
that really brought down
the curve to begin with.
-
And that means thing such as
-
covering up your nose and mouth
when you cough or sneeze,
-
wearing a mask, washing your hands,
-
physically distancing yourself
to the extent possible from others.
-
Thinking about everything we do,
-
you know, before we go to work
in the morning,
-
while we're at work.
-
And being as careful
as many of us have been
-
in the last two months,
-
as we go into the next three months,
-
because this thing is not over.
-
DB: Right.
-
There is the chance of more waves,
as Uri mentioned.
-
It seems like it's kind of
incumbent on all of us then
-
to take public health
as kind of second job.
-
Is that right?
-
GB: You know, I've been arguing a lot
-
that now that everybody really knows
what public health is,
-
that everybody should recognize
that their second job is public health,
-
whether you're picking up the garbage
or working in a grocery store,
-
or you are a bus driver,
-
or you're, you know,
like me, doing public health,
-
physician or a nurse,
-
everybody needs to put
the public health [unclear]
-
into what they do each and every day.
-
DB: What do you think --
-
So we're all public health
professionals now,
-
what do you think the new normal
we might expect,
-
as countries reopen?
-
What is that going to look like,
-
or what do you hope that looks like,
as a public health professional?
-
GB: If I could wave a magic wand,
-
I would clearly recognize
-
that people are going to be doing
a lot more of the public health things,
-
in terms of handwashing
-
and thinking about what they do
around safety when they go out in public.
-
You know, it was not too long ago
-
when you got in your car
and you didn't put your seat belt on.
-
Today we do it,
-
and we don't think anything about it.
-
Most of us don't smoke,
-
because we know that it's bad for us.
-
Most of us look both ways
before we cross a street.
-
Most of us, you know,
-
do things in our house,
that are, fix trip hazards.
-
So as we go forward with this outbreak,
-
I'm hoping that people will pay
a lot more attention
-
to things that can cause us
to get an infection.
-
So you know, cleaning things,
disinfecting things.
-
More importantly, not coming
to work if you're sick.
-
I'm hoping that employers
will put in paid sick leave for everybody,
-
so people can stay home.
-
Yeah, it’s an additional cost,
-
but I can tell you that we've now learned
-
that the cost of not doing
something like that
-
is billions and billions
and billions of dollars.
-
Paid sick leave is pretty cheap
when you do that.
-
DB: Yeah, we are, I think,
envious in the United States
-
of all the countries that perhaps have
-
a more all-encompassing
health care system than we do.
-
Would you agree that masks
are kind of the symbol
-
of adopting that "public health
professional as a second job" mindset?
-
GB: Well, you know, it's funny.
-
Our colleagues in Asia have had a mask --
-
Wearing mask as a culture
for many, many years.
-
And you know, we've always
kind of chuckled at that.
-
When I went overseas,
I would always kind of chuckle
-
when I saw people wearing masks.
-
And of course, when this first started,
-
you know, we only promoted masks
for people that were infected
-
or of course, health care workers,
-
who we thought were
in a higher-risk environment.
-
But I think that wearing masks
-
is probably going to be
part of our culture.
-
We've already seen it probably will not be
part of our beach culture,
-
although it probably should be for now.
-
But I do think that we're going to see
more and more people wearing masks
-
in a variety of settings.
-
And I think that makes sense.
-
DB: Yeah, wear your mask
to show that you care about others.
-
And that you have this,
kind of, public health spirit.
-
So speaking of Asia,
-
who has done well?
-
Looking around the world,
you've been doing this for a while,
-
and communicated with your peers,
-
who has done well
-
and what can we learn
from those good examples?
-
GB: Yeah, South Korea
in many ways is the role model.
-
You know, China actually,
at the end of the day,
-
did reasonably well.
-
But the secret to all of those countries
-
that had had less morbidity
and mortality than we have,
-
is they did lots of testing very early on,
-
they did contact tracing
and isolation and quarantine,
-
which by the way, is the bedrock
of public health practice.
-
They did it early, they did a lot of it,
-
and by the way, even though
they're reopening their society,
-
and they're beginning to see
episodic surges,
-
they then go back to those basic
public health practices
-
of testing, isolation, contact tracing
-
and transparency
to the public when they can,
-
because it's important for the public
to understand how many cases there are,
-
where the disease is,
-
if you're going to get
compliance from the public.
-
DB: So testing,
contact tracing and isolation.
-
That doesn't seem like rocket science,
to use that old cliché.
-
Why has that been hard
for some countries to implement?
-
What's holding us back,
-
is it electronic medical records,
-
is it some fancy doodad,
-
or is it just maybe overconfidence,
-
based on maybe the public health
successes of the last 100 years?
-
GB: You know, we are very much
a pill society.
-
We think there's a pill for everything.
-
If we can't give you a pill for it,
-
then we can give you surgery and fix it.
-
You know, prevention works.
-
And we have totally
under invested in prevention.
-
We've totally under invested
in a strong, robust,
-
public health system.
-
If you look at the fact
that in America today,
-
you can very easily know
-
what's coming off the shelf
of a grocery store,
-
Amazon knows everything
there is to know about you,
-
but your doctor does not have
the same tools.
-
At three o’clock in the morning,
-
it's still very difficult
to get a hold of your electrocardiogram
-
or your medical record,
or your list of allergies
-
if you can't tell
the practitioner what you have.
-
And we just haven't invested
in robust systems.
-
One of the interesting things
about this outbreak
-
is that it has created an environment
-
in which we're now dependent
on telemedicine,
-
which has been around for several years,
-
but we weren't quite into it.
-
But now, it's probably
going to be the new standard.
-
DB: But it also seems --
-
So, obviously,
-
those countries with an incredibly
robust health care system,
-
like Taiwan, have done well,
-
but it seems like even countries
that perhaps would be considered
-
to have a less robust health care system,
like Ghana in Africa,
-
have actually done well.
-
What has been the, I guess,
the secret sauce
-
for those kinds of countries?
-
GB: Yeah, it's still pretty early
in some of their exposures,
-
and hopefully, they might not
have a wave that comes later,
-
that's still a possibility,
-
but at the end of the day,
-
I think, to the extent you have done
good, sound public health practices,
-
all of the countries that have done well
-
have implemented that.
-
Now we're a big country,
we're a complex country.
-
And yes, we didn't get
the testing right to begin with.
-
But we should not repeat the mistakes
that we had over the last three months,
-
because we've still got
several months to go.
-
And now that we know what we did wrong,
-
I'm encouraging us
to do it right the next time.
-
DB: That seems smart.
-
GB: And the next time is tomorrow.
-
DB: That's right.
-
It's already started.
-
I mean, it almost seems to me,
-
if I can use this metaphor,
-
that some of these countries
-
already had the kind of,
antibodies in their system,
-
because they had experience
with maybe Ebola or the first SARS.
-
Is that the key, previous exposure
-
to these kind of, public health crises?
-
GB: Well, this is a very different virus.
-
And while there may be some early evidence
-
that MERS and SARS one,
-
we may have some
early protection from that,
-
there's some early,
early studies looking at that,
-
that's not the solution.
-
The secret sauce here
is good, solid, public health practice.
-
That's the secret sauce here.
-
We should not be looking
for anything, any mysticism,
-
or anyone to come [unclear]
with a special pill.
-
This is all about good, solid,
public health practice,
-
because, by the way, look,
-
this was was a bad one,
-
but it's not the last one.
-
And so we need to prepare
for the next really big one.
-
We think this one was bad,
-
imagine what would have happened
had Ebola been aerosolized,
-
or MERS had been earosolized.
-
You know, pick a TV movie.
-
Even though this was a bad one,
-
we still dodged a really,
really bad one this time.
-
DB: Yeah, Middle East
Respiratory Syndrome is no joke,
-
and we should be thankful
that it doesn't spread more easily,
-
like SARS-CoV.
-
Is this though --
-
So all these diseases are zoonotic,
-
that means they jumped to us
from the animals that are out there.
-
Obviously, humanity is kind of,
encroaching on nature
-
in an ever more, kind of, urgent way,
-
whether that's climate change
or going into the forests, what have you.
-
Is this just the new normal,
-
like, we should expect
pandemics every so often?
-
GB: Well, they do come periodically,
-
so this is not, you know,
the first pandemic, right?
-
We've had several,
-
100 years ago, the 1918 influenza,
-
SARS was a significant infection,
-
even though it didn't get
this bad, SARS one.
-
And we had avian flu,
-
which was a challenge,
-
and the swine flu.
-
We had Zika.
-
So no, we've had several
new disease outbreaks.
-
These emerging diseases happen a lot,
-
and in many ways,
-
we've been fortunate
-
that we have been able
to identify them early,
-
and contain them.
-
But we're now in an environment
-
where people can by the way,
make some of these things up.
-
Now, this one did not happen,
as best we can tell, it's not man-made.
-
It did not probably come
out of a leak in the lab.
-
But we know that, when I was in school,
-
to grow a bug, you had to be
pretty sophisticated.
-
That's not the case today.
-
And we need to protect ourselves
from both naturally occurring infections,
-
and from those that are created by humans.
-
DB: Plus we have other
kind of, threat multipliers,
-
like climate change,
-
that make pandemics like this
that much worse.
-
GB: You know, I was saying climate change
was the greatest threat human survival
-
before this one.
-
But this is rivaling climate change.
-
But let me tell you,
-
the big challenge we have now
-
is that we have a pandemic,
-
which we have still not contained,
-
as we enter hurricane season,
-
and we have climate change,
-
which is exacerbating the ferocity
of the hurricanes that we're having.
-
So, you know, we're in
for an interesting summer.
-
DB: And here's Chris, with, I think,
a question from our audience.
-
Chris Anderson: Many questions, actually.
-
People are very interested
in what you're saying, Georges.
-
Here we go, here's the first one
from Jim Young:
-
"How do we deal with people
who don't believe this is serious?"
-
GB: You know, you just have to continue
to communicate the truth to folks.
-
One of the things
about this particular disease
-
is that it does not spare anyone.
-
It does not recognize political parties,
-
it does not recognize geography,
-
and we had lots of people,
particularly in rural communities,
-
that were not seeing it,
because it had not yet come to them,
-
and they didn't believe it was real.
-
And now many of those communities
are being ravaged by this disease.
-
And so we just have to --
-
You know, it's not appropriate
to say "I told you so."
-
It is appropriate to say,
"Look, now that you see it,
-
come on board, and help us
resolve these problems."
-
But this is something
that's going to be around for a while.
-
And if it becomes endemic,
-
meaning that it occurs all the time
at some low level,
-
everyone is going to have this experience.
-
CA: Thank you.
-
Here is one from Robert Perkowitz.
-
"We seem to have been ignoring
and underfunding public health,
-
and we were unprepared for this virus."
-
Look if the question
is going to pop up there,
-
I think it should, it's the magic.
-
"What should our priorities be now
-
to prepare for the next
public health crisis?"
-
GB: Well, we now need to make sure
that we've put in the funding,
-
resources, training,
staffing on the table.
-
And by the way, our next
public health crisis
-
is not 10 years from now,
it's not 20 years from now,
-
it's the potential co-occurrence
-
of influenza, which we know
is going to happen this fall,
-
because it comes every year,
-
with either continued COVID
or a spike in COVID.
-
And we're going to have a disease process
-
which presents very much the same,
-
and we're going to have to differentiate
COVID from influenza.
-
Because we have a vaccine for influenza,
-
we don't yet have a vaccine for COVID.
-
We hope to have one in about a year.
-
But that still remains to be seen.
-
DB: So get your flu shots.
-
CA: Yeah.
-
Indeed, in fact, David Collins
asked exactly that question.
-
"What is the likelihood of a vaccine
before the next wave?"
-
GB: Well you know, the fastest vaccine
that we've ever developed was measles,
-
and that took four years.
-
Now, a lot of things are different, right?
-
We have started on a SARS-one vaccine.
-
So it had gone to a lot of animal trials,
-
it had gone to some very,
very early human trials.
-
As you know, we just got some announcement
-
that at least it does seem
to work in monkeys, in rhesus monkeys,
-
and there's some evidence
that at least it may efficacious and safe
-
in a very, very small number of people.
-
When I say very, very small
number of people,
-
handful of people.
-
So now it's got to go to phase two,
and phase three trials.
-
So, yeah, David held up two hands,
-
so yeah, yeah, it's a small
number of people.
-
What that tells you is either
that those folks were very lucky,
-
or it works.
-
And we won't know until we put this
into the arms of thousands of people.
-
CA: Here's an important question
from a TED Fellow.
-
"How do we actually train people
about what public health means?
-
Especially in the context of folks
-
who don't believe they have
a responsibility to 'the public?'"
-
GB: Well, you know, I remind folks
-
that when public health does its best job,
-
nothing happens.
-
And of course, when nothing happens,
we don't get credit for.
-
So the reason that everyone
in this country
-
does not have to get up every morning
and boil their own water
-
is because of public health.
-
The reason that, if you get
into a car accident,
-
you know, get into
an automobile collision,
-
and you wear your seat belt,
and you have airbags,
-
and you're not killed
from that automobile collision,
-
is because of public health.
-
The reason that the air
is safe to breathe,
-
the food is safe to eat,
-
is because of public health.
-
The reason that your kids
are not in clothing that ignites
-
is because we have
fire-retardant clothing.
-
And that is a requirement.
-
The reason that you don't trip
walking down the stairs
-
is because we've actually looked
at how to build the stair
-
so that people don't trip
when they go up or down it.
-
That's actually a public
health intervention.
-
So the built environment,
-
medicines, all those kinds of things,
-
vaccines, those are all public health,
-
and that's why public health is there,
-
and you may not believe
that it's that important,
-
but we couldn't live without it.
-
CA: Maybe one day we can all
envision a health care system in America
-
that actually has some incentives
-
that point towards public health.
-
That would be very nice.
-
David, I've got to just keep going
with some of these questions, if it's OK,
-
because they're pouring in.
-
There's one here from Jacqueline Ashby.
-
Important question for every parent.
-
"What are your recommendations
about sending children back to school?"
-
GB: Yeah, I'm struggling with this one,
I've got three grand kids.
-
And the good news is that my grand kids
are more technically proficient than I am,
-
and right now are getting
their lessons remotely.
-
I think it's going to be a challenge
-
as we think about sending
kids back to school.
-
We've got to really need to know
how infectious kids are,
-
and how well they do
when they get infected.
-
Now, right now, it seems,
-
except for a very small number
of children who get a very rare disease,
-
that they tolerate this disease very well.
-
But the central question is,
-
how many of these germs
will these kids bring back to you
-
and to grandma and grandpa.
-
So that's going to be important.
-
And you know, trying to tell
an eight-year-old
-
not to interact with their friends,
-
is a real challenge.
-
By the way, trying to tell a 17-year-old
not to interact with their friends
-
is going to be a real challenge.
-
So, we've got to properly
educate these kids,
-
we've got to figure out
how we stagger their schedules.
-
Uri's idea for the workforce
-
might be an interesting
concept for schools,
-
because the idea is to try to decompress
the number of kids in the classroom.
-
By the way, if you get smaller class size,
you get better education, anyway.
-
So, we've got to have
enough teachers, though.
-
So that may be the [limiting step?]
-
CA: Alright, last question here for now
from Steve Petranek.
-
Masks. Advice on mask --
-
I switched that off, here we go.
-
Advice on masks seems to have shifted.
-
"Would most Americans
who live and work in cities
-
be better off wearing masks
-
to also help reduce
the air pollution particles
-
they encounter every day?"
-
GB: It may help some, absolutely.
-
But let me tell you
what I would prefer we stopped doing:
-
burning fossil fuels.
-
And doing all those terrible things
-
that we are doing to destroy our climate.
-
You know, everyone's talking
about the fact
-
that we've had this amazing reduction
-
in CO2 because we're not driving cars.
-
I've got to tell you,
-
that is the best evidence
that climate change is man-made.
-
All those climate change skeptics
-
who don't think climate
change is man-made,
-
we have just had a worldwide demonstration
-
on what people do
to create climate change.
-
And so what we need to do is stop
-
and move to a green economy.
-
DB: Here, here.
-
CA Alright, thank you so much for those,
-
I'll get back at the end
with maybe a couple more.
-
Thank you for this.
-
DB: So we're waving the flag for masks.
-
But also, one of the things
-
that has become clear from this
is that COVID-19
-
is not the great leveler
that maybe some had hoped it was.
-
Some communities
are experiencing much worse,
-
significantly worse outcomes than others.
-
Why is that?
-
GB: We're talking principally
about the African American
-
and Latino communities
-
that seem to be disproportionately
impacted if they get the disease.
-
And it's because of exposure, primarily.
-
Those populations have more
public-facing jobs.
-
So, you know, bus drivers,
-
grocery clerks,
-
working in long-term care facilities,
-
nursing homes,
-
and meatpacking facilities, chicken farms.
-
So that's why they're much more
going to be exposed to the disease.
-
Susceptibility.
-
Lots of chronic disease.
-
So we know that particularly
African Americans
-
have disproportionate amounts
of diabetes, heart disease,
-
lung disease,
-
and because of those chronic diseases,
-
we found early on that that virus
-
is more detrimental to those populations
that have those diseases.
-
And so that's the big issue here.
-
That is what's causing
those differentiations
-
and it's really a challenge,
-
because in many ways,
-
those are many of the people
-
that we have decided
are essential employees,
-
and have to go to work.
-
DB: That's right.
-
So what is, in your view,
the public health intervention
-
to protect these essential workers,
-
if you have ideas on that front?
-
GB: I absolutely do.
-
We started this by a testing strategy
based on symptoms.
-
And now that we have enough tests,
-
we need to make sure that not only people
get those tests for clinical reasons,
-
and people who have symptoms,
-
but also begin to prioritize people
who are public-facing,
-
who are essential workers.
-
So, certainly people working
in nursing homes, hospitals, etc,
-
but bus drivers, security guards,
-
grocery store clerks.
-
They need to be tested,
-
and they need to have testing
with the [unclear]
-
that will secure them, their families,
-
and give everyone the trust
-
that they're not going to be infected
-
and we're not going to infect them.
-
People who work in meatpacking plants,
-
as an example.
-
And we've seen the real tragedy
-
of what’s going on
in the meatpacking plants,
-
because they are working in an environment
where they're shoulder to shoulder.
-
There are some other things
they need to do
-
in terms of figuring out how to give them
physical distancing on the assembly line,
-
that's going to be important.
-
But again, Uri's idea is not a bad idea
-
for this nation to consider,
-
for many of those industries
to think about.
-
DB: Yeah, we have to make sure
that these truly are folks
-
who are treated as essential workers,
not sacrificial workers, it seems to me.
-
And obviously, this is not
just confined to the US.
-
GB: Oh, absolutely.
-
We're seeing these disparities
not just in the United States,
-
but in other countries, as well.
-
And they have a lot to do
with race and class
-
and the types of jobs that you do,
-
the occupations that you do.
-
And quite frankly,
-
we should have though about this
when we saw the first data
-
that showed that in China
-
that people with chronic diseases
were much more at risk
-
and had worse health outcomes.
-
We would have sped up
our actions right away,
-
because, look, that's happened
with every new disease
-
that's come into country.
-
DB: So it seems like a lot of this
goes back to that potential --
-
it's not an oxymoron,
-
public health is everybody's job,
-
and we need to adopt that.
-
What does, in your view,
-
a robust public health
infrastructure look like?
-
What would that look like?
-
GB: Well, you know,
-
anytime a new health threat
enters our community,
-
we ought to be able
to rapidly identify it,
-
contain it,
-
and if we can mitigate it, for sure,
and eliminate it if possible,
-
and then put in all
the protective measures
-
that we've had before.
-
So that means having a well-staffed,
-
well-trained governmental
public health entity,
-
just like we have for police, fire, EMS.
-
It means that they've got to be well-paid,
-
it means that they've got
to be well-resourced.
-
You know, we still have
some of our contact tracers
-
out there using pen and pads.
-
And sending things to Excel Spreadsheets.
-
No, we need the same kind
of robust technology
-
that the folks at, you know,
-
any of the online retailers [unclear],
whether it's Amazon, etc.
-
We're still looking at data
that's two years in the rear,
-
to make data-driven decisions.
-
We need to be able to make
immediate decisions.
-
By the way, Taiwan,
-
you mentioned them earlier,
-
I remember being in Taiwan
-
watching data come
from infectious diseases, real time,
-
from their electronic
medical record system.
-
So, you know, we can do this,
the technology exists.
-
DB: Imagine that.
-
Wow, real time health information,
-
what a difference that would make.
-
Do you think that technology
can help us here,
-
whether that's the Google-Apple
collaboration or whatever else?
-
GB: Technology can help us,
-
but it's not going to replace us.
-
We're nowhere near where we can sit back
-
and have our electronic avatar
do our work for us.
-
But the technology can [unclear] our work.
-
It can give us situational awareness.
-
It can give us real time information.
-
It allows us to send information
from point A to point B
-
for data analysis.
-
It allows us to do second thinking,
-
so we're doing all this modeling,
-
it allows others to check
our numbers right away.
-
So it could speed up research.
-
But we have to invest in it,
-
and we have to continue it,
-
because obsolescence is always
the evil part of technology.
-
DB: And it looks like
Chris is back with more questions.
-
CA: Yeah, I guess we're getting
close to the end,
-
but the questions keep coming in.
-
There's one here from Neelay Bhatt.
-
"What role do you see parks,
trails and open space play
-
in assisting larger public health goals?"
-
GB: You know, green space
is absolutely essential,
-
and ability to get out
and walk and exercise,
-
having sidewalks, so that you can have
communities that are walkable,
-
bikeable and green,
for utilization of all ages,
-
it's good for our mental health,
it's good for our physical health.
-
And I always tell folks, you know,
-
it's a great place to go
when someone's gotten on your last nerve.
-
CA: Indeed.
-
Here we have one anonymous question.
-
Where possible don't go anonymous,
-
because we're all friends here
when all said and done.
-
Probably someone ... Anyway.
-
Let's see, but it's a good question.
-
"There are many who are highly suspicious
of what the real experts are saying.
-
What have you found to be effective
in helping the highly suspicious
-
be less suspicious and more trusting?"
-
GB: Tell the truth.
-
If you make a mistake, acknowledge it
and correct it right away.
-
Be consistent.
-
And don't say stupid stuff.
-
And far too often that happens.
-
And you know, one
of the interesting things,
-
we've already been through this
with the mask discussion.
-
You know, traditional wisdom
was that we only had people wear the mask
-
if they were infectious,
-
or you're in a health care environment
-
where there was a high risk
of getting the disease.
-
And then we said,
-
no, it's OK for everybody to wear a mask.
-
And that's because we learned eventually,
-
and became much more believable,
-
in the science that we had
asymptomatic spreading.
-
But we did not communicate it very well.
-
We said, oh, no, no,
we're changing our minds,
-
everybody can wear a mask,
-
after telling people not to wear a mask.
-
And then we didn't spend enough time
explaining to people why.
-
So we lost trust.
-
So we need to do a better job of that.
-
And then our leaders,
-
need to be very careful
what they say when you have a bull horn.
-
And by the way, I've made mistakes,
-
I've said things on TV
that were just wrong,
-
because I was wrong.
-
And I've tried very hard
to try to correct those
-
as quickly as I can.
-
All of us do that,
-
but you have to be strong enough
-
and have a strong enough personality
to say when you're wrong
-
and then correct it.
-
Because at the end of the day,
once you've lost trust,
-
you've lost everything.
-
CA: Well if I might say so,
-
just the way in which
you're communicating right now,
-
I mean, to me, that is
a means of communication
-
that engenders trust.
-
I don't know what magic sauce
you have going there,
-
but it's very, very compelling
listening to you.
-
Thank you so much for this.
-
David, do you have any other last cues?
-
GB: I've made lots of mistakes.
-
DB: Yeah, no, but it really
has been a real pleasure
-
to have you join us
and thank you for that.
-
Just one final question if I may.
-
You've been doing this for a while,
-
what gives you hope looking forward?
-
GB: You know, let me tell you something.
-
The one thing that gives me hope
-
is when I see people taking care
of their friends and family members.
-
I mean, drive-by birthday parties.
-
I saw that on the news today.
-
People who are calling their friends.
-
I've heard from people
that I haven't talked to in years,
-
who are just calling me to say,
-
"I haven't talked to you
for a long time. Are you OK?"
-
So do more of that.
-
And the trust we've had in one another,
-
and the love we've shown,
it's just been absolutely amazing,
-
so that gives me hope.
-
DB: Humanity for the win in the end.
-
GB: Yeah.
-
DB: Well, thank you so much, Dr. Benjamin,
-
for joining us
and for sharing your wisdom.
-
GB: Glad to be here.
-
CA: Yes, thank you.
-
GB: You guys be safe.
-
Your families be safe.
-
DB: Thank you, you too.