WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.851 David Biello: It's now my great honor and privilege 00:00:02.875 --> 00:00:05.393 to introduce Dr. Georges Benjamin, 00:00:05.417 --> 00:00:09.976 who's the executive director of the American Public Health Association, 00:00:10.000 --> 00:00:13.226 who has a long and distinguished career, 00:00:13.250 --> 00:00:17.226 both as a medical professional and as a public health professional. 00:00:17.250 --> 00:00:20.333 Please give a warm welcome to Dr. Georges Benjamin. NOTE Paragraph 00:00:23.292 --> 00:00:25.309 Georges Benjamin: Hey, David, how are you? NOTE Paragraph 00:00:25.333 --> 00:00:27.809 DB: I am good, how are you, Dr. Benjamin? NOTE Paragraph 00:00:27.833 --> 00:00:30.518 GB: I'm here. (Laughs) NOTE Paragraph 00:00:30.542 --> 00:00:32.059 DB: Hanging in there. Good. NOTE Paragraph 00:00:32.083 --> 00:00:33.768 GB: Hanging in. NOTE Paragraph 00:00:33.792 --> 00:00:39.708 DB: We know that the theme of the moment is reopening, I would say. 00:00:40.542 --> 00:00:43.018 We just heard one possibility for that, 00:00:43.042 --> 00:00:44.643 but obviously, 00:00:44.667 --> 00:00:47.934 a lot of countries have already reopened in one form or another, 00:00:47.958 --> 00:00:50.268 and I believe, as of today, 00:00:50.292 --> 00:00:55.083 all 50 states here in the US have reopened in one form or another. 00:00:56.958 --> 00:01:01.208 How do we do that smartly, how do we do that safely? NOTE Paragraph 00:01:02.250 --> 00:01:06.393 GB: Yeah, we really do need to reopen safely and carefully, 00:01:06.417 --> 00:01:13.059 and it means that we have not got to forget these public health measures 00:01:13.083 --> 00:01:15.643 that really brought down the curve to begin with. 00:01:15.667 --> 00:01:18.976 And that means thing such as 00:01:19.000 --> 00:01:21.684 covering up your nose and mouth when you cough or sneeze, 00:01:21.708 --> 00:01:24.309 wearing a mask, washing your hands, 00:01:24.333 --> 00:01:27.625 physically distancing yourself to the extent possible from others. 00:01:28.583 --> 00:01:30.893 Thinking about everything we do, 00:01:30.917 --> 00:01:33.726 you know, before we go to work in the morning, 00:01:33.750 --> 00:01:35.643 while we're at work. 00:01:35.667 --> 00:01:39.893 And being as careful as many of us have been 00:01:39.917 --> 00:01:41.476 in the last two months, 00:01:41.500 --> 00:01:43.643 as we go into the next three months, 00:01:43.667 --> 00:01:45.208 because this thing is not over. NOTE Paragraph 00:01:45.917 --> 00:01:47.184 DB: Right. 00:01:47.208 --> 00:01:52.458 There is the chance of more waves, as Uri [Alon] mentioned. 00:01:53.333 --> 00:01:56.893 It seems like it's kind of incumbent on all of us then 00:01:56.917 --> 00:02:00.393 to take public health as kind of a second job. 00:02:00.417 --> 00:02:02.500 Is that right? NOTE Paragraph 00:02:03.375 --> 00:02:05.684 GB: You know, I've been arguing a lot 00:02:05.708 --> 00:02:09.643 that now that everybody really knows what public health is, 00:02:09.667 --> 00:02:13.851 that everybody should always recognize that their second job is public health, 00:02:13.875 --> 00:02:17.601 whether you're picking up the garbage or working in a grocery store, 00:02:17.625 --> 00:02:20.226 or you are a bus driver, 00:02:20.250 --> 00:02:23.226 or you're, you know, like me, doing public health, 00:02:23.250 --> 00:02:24.643 a physician or a nurse, 00:02:24.667 --> 00:02:28.476 everybody needs to put the public health mantle 00:02:28.500 --> 00:02:30.958 into what they do each and every day. NOTE Paragraph 00:02:32.708 --> 00:02:34.226 DB: What do you think -- 00:02:34.250 --> 00:02:36.434 So we're all public health professionals now, 00:02:36.458 --> 00:02:40.851 what do you think the new normal we might expect, 00:02:40.875 --> 00:02:44.268 as countries reopen? 00:02:44.292 --> 00:02:46.518 What is that going to look like, 00:02:46.542 --> 00:02:50.434 or what do you hope that looks like, as a public health professional? NOTE Paragraph 00:02:50.458 --> 00:02:53.476 GB: If I could wave a magic wand, 00:02:53.500 --> 00:02:56.684 I would clearly recognize 00:02:56.708 --> 00:03:00.184 that people are going to be doing a lot more of the public health things, 00:03:00.208 --> 00:03:02.101 in terms of handwashing 00:03:02.125 --> 00:03:06.684 and thinking about what they do around safety when they go out in public. 00:03:06.708 --> 00:03:09.184 You know, it was not too long ago 00:03:09.208 --> 00:03:12.113 when you got in your car and you didn't put your seat belt on. 00:03:12.137 --> 00:03:13.393 Today we do it, 00:03:13.417 --> 00:03:15.851 and we don't think anything about it. 00:03:15.875 --> 00:03:18.309 Most of us don't smoke, 00:03:18.333 --> 00:03:20.684 because we know that that's bad for us. 00:03:20.708 --> 00:03:24.851 Most of us look both ways before we cross a street. 00:03:24.875 --> 00:03:27.684 Most of us, you know, 00:03:27.708 --> 00:03:31.018 do things in our house, that are -- fix trip hazards. 00:03:31.042 --> 00:03:33.851 So as we go forward with this outbreak, 00:03:33.875 --> 00:03:36.309 I'm hoping that people will pay a lot more attention 00:03:36.333 --> 00:03:39.809 to things that can cause us to get an infection. 00:03:39.833 --> 00:03:43.958 So you know, cleaning things, disinfecting things. 00:03:45.250 --> 00:03:48.726 More importantly, not coming to work if you're sick. 00:03:48.750 --> 00:03:53.268 I'm hoping that employers will put in paid sick leave for everybody, 00:03:53.292 --> 00:03:55.059 so people can stay home. 00:03:55.083 --> 00:03:57.101 Yeah, it’s an additional cost, 00:03:57.125 --> 00:03:59.476 but I can tell you that we've now learned 00:03:59.500 --> 00:04:03.351 that the cost of not doing something like that 00:04:03.375 --> 00:04:06.309 is billions and billions and billions of dollars. 00:04:06.333 --> 00:04:09.518 Paid sick leave is pretty cheap when you do that. NOTE Paragraph 00:04:09.542 --> 00:04:12.684 DB: Yeah, we are, I think, envious in the United States 00:04:12.708 --> 00:04:16.184 of all the countries that perhaps have 00:04:16.208 --> 00:04:19.208 a more all-encompassing health care system than we do. 00:04:20.042 --> 00:04:23.393 Would you agree that masks are kind of the symbol 00:04:23.417 --> 00:04:29.417 of adopting that "public health professional as a second job" mindset? NOTE Paragraph 00:04:30.249 --> 00:04:31.726 GB: Well, you know, it's funny. 00:04:31.750 --> 00:04:36.643 Our colleagues in Asia have had a mask -- 00:04:36.667 --> 00:04:40.042 wearing masks as a culture for many, many years. 00:04:41.250 --> 00:04:44.351 And you know, we've always kind of chuckled at that. 00:04:44.375 --> 00:04:46.101 When I went overseas, 00:04:46.125 --> 00:04:49.559 I would always kind of chuckle when I saw people wearing masks. 00:04:49.583 --> 00:04:51.476 And of course, when this first started, 00:04:51.500 --> 00:04:54.976 you know, we only promoted masks for people that were infected 00:04:55.000 --> 00:04:56.684 or of course, health care workers, 00:04:56.708 --> 00:04:59.351 who we thought were in a higher-risk environment. 00:04:59.375 --> 00:05:01.684 But I think that wearing masks 00:05:01.708 --> 00:05:04.208 is probably going to be part of our culture. 00:05:05.167 --> 00:05:08.434 We've already seen it probably will not be part of our beach culture, 00:05:08.458 --> 00:05:10.476 although it probably should be for now. 00:05:10.500 --> 00:05:14.476 But I do think that we're going to see more and more people wearing masks 00:05:14.500 --> 00:05:16.476 in a variety of settings. 00:05:16.500 --> 00:05:18.893 And I think that makes sense. NOTE Paragraph 00:05:18.917 --> 00:05:22.518 DB: Yeah, wear your mask to show that you care about others. 00:05:22.542 --> 00:05:25.809 And that you have this, kind of, public health spirit. 00:05:25.833 --> 00:05:27.601 So speaking of Asia, 00:05:27.625 --> 00:05:30.643 who has done well? 00:05:30.667 --> 00:05:33.559 Looking around the world, you've been doing this for a while 00:05:33.583 --> 00:05:35.518 and communicated with your peers, 00:05:35.542 --> 00:05:36.809 who has done well 00:05:36.833 --> 00:05:40.726 and what can we learn from those good examples? NOTE Paragraph 00:05:40.750 --> 00:05:43.667 GB: Yeah, South Korea in many ways is the role model. 00:05:44.500 --> 00:05:47.559 You know, China actually, at the end of the day, 00:05:47.583 --> 00:05:49.476 did reasonably well. 00:05:49.500 --> 00:05:51.476 But the secret to all of those countries 00:05:51.500 --> 00:05:54.601 that have had less morbidity and mortality than we have, 00:05:54.625 --> 00:05:58.684 is they did lots of testing very early on, 00:05:58.708 --> 00:06:02.684 they did contact tracing and isolation and quarantine, 00:06:02.708 --> 00:06:06.601 which by the way, is the bedrock of public health practice. 00:06:06.625 --> 00:06:09.351 They did it early, they did a lot of it, 00:06:09.375 --> 00:06:13.184 and by the way, even though they're reopening their society, 00:06:13.208 --> 00:06:16.643 and they're beginning to see episodic surges, 00:06:16.667 --> 00:06:19.309 they then go back to those basic public health practices 00:06:19.333 --> 00:06:24.601 of testing, isolation, contact tracing 00:06:24.625 --> 00:06:28.726 and transparency to the public when they can, 00:06:28.750 --> 00:06:33.434 because it's important for the public to understand how many cases there are, 00:06:33.458 --> 00:06:35.268 where the disease is, 00:06:35.292 --> 00:06:37.833 if you're going to get compliance from the public. NOTE Paragraph 00:06:39.042 --> 00:06:42.434 DB: So testing, contact tracing and isolation. 00:06:42.458 --> 00:06:47.726 That doesn't seem like rocket science, to use that old cliché. 00:06:47.750 --> 00:06:51.934 Why has that been hard for some countries to implement? 00:06:51.958 --> 00:06:53.643 What's holding us back, 00:06:53.667 --> 00:06:55.434 is it electronic medical records, 00:06:55.458 --> 00:06:57.434 is it some fancy doodad, 00:06:57.458 --> 00:07:01.309 or is it just maybe overconfidence, 00:07:01.333 --> 00:07:05.643 based on maybe the public health successes of the last 100 years? NOTE Paragraph 00:07:05.667 --> 00:07:09.101 GB: You know, we are very much a pill society. 00:07:09.125 --> 00:07:11.768 We think there's a pill for everything. 00:07:11.792 --> 00:07:14.268 If we can't give you a pill for it, 00:07:14.292 --> 00:07:16.476 then we can give you surgery and fix it. 00:07:16.500 --> 00:07:19.101 You know, prevention works. 00:07:19.125 --> 00:07:22.726 And we have totally underinvested in prevention. 00:07:22.750 --> 00:07:26.601 We've totally underinvested in a strong, robust 00:07:26.625 --> 00:07:27.976 public health system. 00:07:28.000 --> 00:07:32.018 If you look at the fact that in the America today, 00:07:32.042 --> 00:07:36.643 you can very easily know 00:07:36.667 --> 00:07:39.393 what's coming off the shelf of a grocery store, 00:07:39.417 --> 00:07:43.018 Amazon knows everything there is to know about you, 00:07:43.042 --> 00:07:47.143 but your doctor does not have the same tools. 00:07:47.167 --> 00:07:48.691 At three o'clock in the morning, 00:07:48.715 --> 00:07:52.059 it's still very difficult to get a hold of your electrocardiogram, 00:07:52.083 --> 00:07:55.226 or your medical record, or your list of allergies 00:07:55.250 --> 00:07:57.684 if you can't tell the practitioner what you have. 00:07:57.708 --> 00:08:00.643 And we just haven't invested in robust systems. 00:08:00.667 --> 00:08:03.476 One of the interesting things about this outbreak 00:08:03.500 --> 00:08:05.309 is that it has created an environment 00:08:05.333 --> 00:08:08.643 in which we're now dependent on telemedicine, 00:08:08.667 --> 00:08:10.572 which has been around for several years, 00:08:10.596 --> 00:08:12.643 but we weren't quite into it. 00:08:12.667 --> 00:08:15.208 But now, it's probably going to be the new standard. NOTE Paragraph 00:08:16.083 --> 00:08:17.351 DB: But it also seems -- 00:08:17.375 --> 00:08:18.643 So, obviously, 00:08:18.667 --> 00:08:22.893 those countries with an incredibly robust health care system, 00:08:22.917 --> 00:08:24.809 like Taiwan, have done well, 00:08:24.833 --> 00:08:28.559 but it seems like even countries that perhaps would be considered 00:08:28.583 --> 00:08:33.726 to have a less robust health care system, like a Ghana in Africa, 00:08:33.750 --> 00:08:35.059 have actually done well. 00:08:35.083 --> 00:08:38.684 What has been the, I guess, the secret sauce 00:08:38.708 --> 00:08:40.726 for those kinds of countries? NOTE Paragraph 00:08:40.750 --> 00:08:44.226 GB: Yeah, it's still pretty early in some of their exposures, 00:08:44.250 --> 00:08:48.934 and hopefully, they might not have a wave that comes later, 00:08:48.958 --> 00:08:50.934 that's still a possibility, 00:08:50.958 --> 00:08:52.268 but at the end of the day, 00:08:52.292 --> 00:08:57.226 I think, to the extent you have done good, sound public health practices, 00:08:57.250 --> 00:08:59.643 all of the countries that have done well 00:08:59.667 --> 00:09:00.934 have implemented that. 00:09:00.958 --> 00:09:04.018 Now we're a big country, we're a complex country. 00:09:04.042 --> 00:09:07.809 And yes, we didn't get the testing right to begin with. 00:09:07.833 --> 00:09:12.518 But we should not repeat the mistakes that we had over the last three months, 00:09:12.542 --> 00:09:15.184 because we've still got several months to go. 00:09:15.208 --> 00:09:17.101 And now that we know what we did wrong, 00:09:17.125 --> 00:09:20.143 I'm encouraging us to do it right the next time. NOTE Paragraph 00:09:20.167 --> 00:09:21.601 DB: That seems smart. NOTE Paragraph 00:09:21.625 --> 00:09:23.726 GB: And the next time is tomorrow. NOTE Paragraph 00:09:23.750 --> 00:09:25.268 DB: That's right. 00:09:25.292 --> 00:09:26.726 It's already started. 00:09:26.750 --> 00:09:28.226 I mean, it almost seems to me, 00:09:28.250 --> 00:09:29.559 if I can use this metaphor, 00:09:29.583 --> 00:09:30.976 that some of these countries 00:09:31.000 --> 00:09:33.809 already had the, kind of, antibodies in their system, 00:09:33.833 --> 00:09:38.000 because they had experience with maybe Ebola or the first SARS. 00:09:39.292 --> 00:09:41.809 Is that the key, previous exposure 00:09:41.833 --> 00:09:44.893 to these kind of public health crises? NOTE Paragraph 00:09:44.917 --> 00:09:47.226 GB: Well, this is a very different virus. 00:09:47.250 --> 00:09:50.018 And while there may be some early evidence 00:09:50.042 --> 00:09:53.518 that MERS and SARS one, 00:09:53.542 --> 00:09:57.184 we may have some early protection from that, 00:09:57.208 --> 00:10:00.018 there's some early, early studies looking at that, 00:10:00.042 --> 00:10:01.309 that's not the solution. 00:10:01.333 --> 00:10:06.268 The secret sauce here is good, solid public health practice. 00:10:06.292 --> 00:10:08.101 That's the secret sauce here. 00:10:08.125 --> 00:10:12.143 We should not be looking for anything, any mysticism, 00:10:12.167 --> 00:10:15.434 or anyone to come save us with a special pill. 00:10:15.458 --> 00:10:18.393 This is all about good, solid public health practice, 00:10:18.417 --> 00:10:20.101 because, by the way, look, 00:10:20.125 --> 00:10:22.518 this one was a bad one, 00:10:22.542 --> 00:10:24.809 but it's not the last one. 00:10:24.833 --> 00:10:27.393 And so we need to prepare for the next really big one. 00:10:27.417 --> 00:10:28.976 We think this one was bad, 00:10:29.000 --> 00:10:32.476 imagine what would have happened had Ebola been aerosolized, 00:10:32.500 --> 00:10:35.601 or MERS had been aerosolized. 00:10:35.625 --> 00:10:37.417 You know, pick a TV movie. 00:10:38.875 --> 00:10:40.643 Even though this was a bad one, 00:10:40.667 --> 00:10:44.417 we still dodged a really, really bad one this time. NOTE Paragraph 00:10:45.375 --> 00:10:48.934 DB: Yeah, Middle East Respiratory Syndrome is no joke, 00:10:48.958 --> 00:10:52.018 and we should be thankful that it doesn't spread more easily, 00:10:52.042 --> 00:10:53.351 like SARS-CoV. 00:10:53.375 --> 00:10:54.643 Is this, though -- 00:10:54.667 --> 00:10:56.393 So all these diseases are zoonotic, 00:10:56.417 --> 00:11:00.559 that means they jumped to us from the animals that are out there. 00:11:00.583 --> 00:11:03.643 Obviously, humanity is kind of encroaching on nature 00:11:03.667 --> 00:11:06.601 in an ever more, kind of, urgent way, 00:11:06.625 --> 00:11:11.184 whether that's climate change or going into the forests, what have you. 00:11:11.208 --> 00:11:13.976 Is this just the new normal, 00:11:14.000 --> 00:11:17.417 like, we should expect pandemics every so often? NOTE Paragraph 00:11:18.542 --> 00:11:20.976 GB: Well, they do come periodically, 00:11:21.000 --> 00:11:23.518 so this is not, you know, the first pandemic, right? 00:11:23.542 --> 00:11:26.268 We've had several, 00:11:26.292 --> 00:11:30.768 100 years ago, the 1918 influenza, 00:11:30.792 --> 00:11:34.976 SARS was a significant infection, 00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:37.601 even though it didn't get this bad, SARS one. 00:11:37.625 --> 00:11:39.976 And we had the avian flu, 00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:42.226 which was a challenge, 00:11:42.250 --> 00:11:43.893 and the swine flu. 00:11:43.917 --> 00:11:45.184 We had Zika. 00:11:45.208 --> 00:11:48.684 So no, we've had several new disease outbreaks. 00:11:48.708 --> 00:11:52.643 These emerging diseases happen a lot, 00:11:52.667 --> 00:11:55.143 and in many ways, 00:11:55.167 --> 00:11:56.434 we've been fortunate 00:11:56.458 --> 00:11:59.684 that we have been able to identify them early 00:11:59.708 --> 00:12:01.851 and contain them. 00:12:01.875 --> 00:12:03.643 But we're now in an environment 00:12:03.667 --> 00:12:06.476 where people can, by the way, make some of these things up. 00:12:06.500 --> 00:12:11.184 Now, this one did not happen, as best we can tell, it's not man-made. 00:12:11.208 --> 00:12:13.643 It did not probably come out of a leak in the lab. 00:12:13.667 --> 00:12:18.976 But we know that, when I was in school, 00:12:19.000 --> 00:12:22.184 to grow a bug, you had to be pretty sophisticated. 00:12:22.208 --> 00:12:23.851 That's not the case today. 00:12:23.875 --> 00:12:28.351 And we need to protect ourselves from both naturally occurring infections 00:12:28.375 --> 00:12:31.750 and from those that are created by humans. NOTE Paragraph 00:12:32.625 --> 00:12:35.768 DB: Plus we have other, kind of, threat multipliers, 00:12:35.792 --> 00:12:37.309 like climate change, 00:12:37.333 --> 00:12:40.958 that make pandemics like this that much worse. NOTE Paragraph 00:12:42.042 --> 00:12:45.809 GB: You know, I was saying climate change was the greatest threat human survival 00:12:45.833 --> 00:12:47.101 before this one. 00:12:47.125 --> 00:12:48.851 But this is rivaling climate change. 00:12:48.875 --> 00:12:50.184 But let me tell you, 00:12:50.208 --> 00:12:52.226 the big challenge we have now 00:12:52.250 --> 00:12:55.684 is that we have a pandemic, 00:12:55.708 --> 00:12:57.643 which we have still not contained, 00:12:57.667 --> 00:13:00.809 as we enter hurricane season, 00:13:00.833 --> 00:13:02.268 and we have climate change, 00:13:02.292 --> 00:13:07.643 which is exacerbating the ferocity of the hurricanes that we're having. 00:13:07.667 --> 00:13:11.958 So, you know, we're in for an interesting summer. NOTE Paragraph 00:13:14.667 --> 00:13:18.601 DB: And here's Chris with, I think, a question from our audience. NOTE Paragraph 00:13:18.625 --> 00:13:21.226 Chris Anderson: Many questions, actually. 00:13:21.250 --> 00:13:24.976 People are very interested in what you're saying, Georges. 00:13:25.000 --> 00:13:27.268 Here we go, here's the first one from Jim Young: 00:13:27.292 --> 00:13:31.833 "How do we deal with people who don't believe this is serious?" NOTE Paragraph 00:13:33.250 --> 00:13:40.000 GB: You know, you just have to continue to communicate the truth to folks. 00:13:40.917 --> 00:13:43.393 One of the things about this particular disease 00:13:43.417 --> 00:13:45.226 is that it does not spare anyone. 00:13:45.250 --> 00:13:48.143 It does not recognize political parties, 00:13:48.167 --> 00:13:50.934 it does not recognize geography, 00:13:50.958 --> 00:13:53.851 and we had lots of people, particularly in rural communities, 00:13:53.875 --> 00:13:56.976 that were not seeing it, because it had not yet come to them, 00:13:57.000 --> 00:13:58.851 and they didn't believe it was real. 00:13:58.875 --> 00:14:03.643 And now many of those communities are being ravaged by this disease. 00:14:03.667 --> 00:14:05.917 And so we just have to -- 00:14:06.917 --> 00:14:09.643 You know, it's not appropriate to say "I told you so." 00:14:09.667 --> 00:14:12.476 It is appropriate to say, "Look, now that you see it, 00:14:12.500 --> 00:14:17.434 come on board and help us resolve these problems." 00:14:17.458 --> 00:14:20.351 But this is something that's going to be around for a while. 00:14:20.375 --> 00:14:22.101 And if it becomes endemic, 00:14:22.125 --> 00:14:28.143 meaning that it occurs all the time at some low level, 00:14:28.167 --> 00:14:30.208 everyone is going to have this experience. NOTE Paragraph 00:14:31.583 --> 00:14:32.851 CA: Thank you. 00:14:32.875 --> 00:14:35.750 Here is one from Robert Perkowitz. 00:14:37.000 --> 00:14:41.309 "We seem to have been ignoring and underfunding public health, 00:14:41.333 --> 00:14:44.934 and we were unprepared for this virus." 00:14:44.958 --> 00:14:47.143 Look if the question is going to pop up there, 00:14:47.167 --> 00:14:49.143 I think it should, by some magic. 00:14:49.167 --> 00:14:51.059 "What should our priorities be now 00:14:51.083 --> 00:14:54.208 to prepare for the next public health crisis?" NOTE Paragraph 00:14:55.583 --> 00:14:59.559 GB: Well, we now need to make sure that we've put in the funding, 00:14:59.583 --> 00:15:02.750 resources, training, staffing on the table. 00:15:03.833 --> 00:15:06.351 And by the way, our next public health crisis 00:15:06.375 --> 00:15:10.476 is not 10 years from now, it's not 20 years from now, 00:15:10.500 --> 00:15:13.976 it's the potential co-occurrence 00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:17.143 of influenza, which we know is going to happen this fall, 00:15:17.167 --> 00:15:18.893 because it comes every year, 00:15:18.917 --> 00:15:23.726 with either continued COVID or a spike in COVID. 00:15:23.750 --> 00:15:26.768 And we're going to have a disease process 00:15:26.792 --> 00:15:29.476 which presents very much the same, 00:15:29.500 --> 00:15:33.833 and we're going to have to differentiate COVID from influenza. 00:15:34.875 --> 00:15:38.518 Because we have a vaccine for influenza, 00:15:38.542 --> 00:15:40.768 we don't yet have a vaccine for COVID. 00:15:40.792 --> 00:15:43.434 We hope to have one in about a year. 00:15:43.458 --> 00:15:45.375 But that still remains to be seen. NOTE Paragraph 00:15:46.583 --> 00:15:48.559 DB: So get your flu shots. NOTE Paragraph 00:15:48.583 --> 00:15:50.018 CA: Yeah. 00:15:50.042 --> 00:15:54.393 Indeed, in fact, David Collins asked exactly that question. 00:15:54.417 --> 00:15:59.333 "What is the likelihood of a vaccine before the next wave?" NOTE Paragraph 00:16:00.667 --> 00:16:04.684 GB: Well you know, the fastest vaccine that we've ever developed was measles, 00:16:04.708 --> 00:16:06.684 and that took four years. 00:16:06.708 --> 00:16:10.934 Now, a lot of things are different, right? 00:16:10.958 --> 00:16:13.643 We have started on a SARS-one vaccine. 00:16:13.667 --> 00:16:15.809 So it had gone to a lot of animal trials, 00:16:15.833 --> 00:16:18.976 it had gone to some very, very early human trials. 00:16:19.000 --> 00:16:21.018 As you know, we just got some announcement 00:16:21.042 --> 00:16:25.768 that at least it does seem to work in monkeys, in rhesus monkeys, 00:16:25.792 --> 00:16:30.893 and there's some evidence that at least it may be efficacious and safe 00:16:30.917 --> 00:16:32.775 in a very, very small number of people. 00:16:32.799 --> 00:16:34.934 When I say very, very small number of people, 00:16:34.958 --> 00:16:36.226 handful of people. 00:16:36.250 --> 00:16:39.768 So now it's got to go to phase two and phase three trials. 00:16:39.792 --> 00:16:43.809 So, yeah, [David] held up two hands, 00:16:43.833 --> 00:16:46.518 so yeah, yeah, it's a small number of people. 00:16:46.542 --> 00:16:50.059 What that tells you is either that those folks were very lucky, 00:16:50.083 --> 00:16:51.351 or it works. 00:16:51.375 --> 00:16:55.292 And we won't know until we put this into the arms of thousands of people. NOTE Paragraph 00:16:56.917 --> 00:17:00.208 CA: Here's an important question from a TED Fellow. 00:17:01.208 --> 00:17:04.226 "How do we actually train people about what public health means? 00:17:04.250 --> 00:17:05.893 Especially in the context of folks 00:17:05.917 --> 00:17:08.875 who don't believe they have a responsibility to 'the public?'" NOTE Paragraph 00:17:09.708 --> 00:17:12.726 GB: Well, you know, I remind folks 00:17:12.750 --> 00:17:15.059 that when public health does its best job, 00:17:15.083 --> 00:17:16.684 nothing happens. 00:17:16.708 --> 00:17:19.726 And of course, when nothing happens, we don't get credit for it. 00:17:19.750 --> 00:17:22.184 So the reason that everyone in this country 00:17:22.208 --> 00:17:26.059 does not have to get up every morning and boil their own water 00:17:26.083 --> 00:17:28.268 is because of public health. 00:17:28.292 --> 00:17:32.059 The reason that, if you get into a car accident, 00:17:32.083 --> 00:17:34.101 you know, get into an automobile collision, 00:17:34.125 --> 00:17:37.518 and you wear your seat belt, and you have airbags, 00:17:37.542 --> 00:17:41.726 and you're not killed from that automobile collision, 00:17:41.750 --> 00:17:43.434 is because of public health. 00:17:43.458 --> 00:17:45.476 The reason that the air is safe to breathe, 00:17:45.500 --> 00:17:47.851 the food is safe to eat, 00:17:47.875 --> 00:17:49.226 is because of public health. 00:17:49.250 --> 00:17:54.184 The reason that your kids are not in clothing that ignites 00:17:54.208 --> 00:17:57.184 is because we have fire-retardant clothing. 00:17:57.208 --> 00:17:59.393 And that is a requirement. 00:17:59.417 --> 00:18:02.309 The reason that you don't trip walking down the stairs 00:18:02.333 --> 00:18:06.809 is because we've actually looked at how to build the stair 00:18:06.833 --> 00:18:09.518 so that people don't trip when they go up or down it. 00:18:09.542 --> 00:18:11.684 That's actually a public health intervention. 00:18:11.708 --> 00:18:13.309 So the built environment, 00:18:13.333 --> 00:18:16.018 medicines, all those kinds of things, 00:18:16.042 --> 00:18:17.893 vaccines, those are all public health, 00:18:17.917 --> 00:18:21.809 and that's why public health is there, 00:18:21.833 --> 00:18:25.684 and you may not believe that it's that important, 00:18:25.708 --> 00:18:27.792 but we couldn't live without it. NOTE Paragraph 00:18:29.708 --> 00:18:34.601 CA: Maybe one day we can all envision a health care system in America 00:18:34.625 --> 00:18:37.059 that actually has some incentives 00:18:37.083 --> 00:18:38.684 that point towards public health. 00:18:38.708 --> 00:18:40.809 That would be very nice. 00:18:40.833 --> 00:18:44.405 David, I've got to just keep going with some of these questions, if it's OK, 00:18:44.429 --> 00:18:45.768 because they're pouring in. 00:18:45.792 --> 00:18:48.518 There's one here from Jacqueline Ashby. 00:18:48.542 --> 00:18:50.809 Important question for every parent. 00:18:50.833 --> 00:18:54.143 "What are your recommendations about sending children back to school?" NOTE Paragraph 00:18:54.167 --> 00:18:57.726 GB: Yeah, I'm struggling with this one, I've got three grandkids. 00:18:57.750 --> 00:19:03.018 And the good news is that my grandkids are more technically proficient than I am, 00:19:03.042 --> 00:19:06.458 and right now are getting their lessons remotely. 00:19:07.542 --> 00:19:09.309 I think it's going to be a challenge 00:19:09.333 --> 00:19:11.518 as we think about sending kids back to school. 00:19:11.542 --> 00:19:17.559 We're going to really need to know how infectious kids are 00:19:17.583 --> 00:19:20.893 and how well they do when they get infected. 00:19:20.917 --> 00:19:23.059 Now, right now, it seems, 00:19:23.083 --> 00:19:27.768 except for a very small number of children who get a very rare disease, 00:19:27.792 --> 00:19:30.184 that they tolerate this disease very well. 00:19:30.208 --> 00:19:33.393 But the central question is, 00:19:33.417 --> 00:19:38.101 how many of these germs will these kids bring back to you 00:19:38.125 --> 00:19:40.643 and to grandma and grandpa. 00:19:40.667 --> 00:19:42.268 So that's going to be important. 00:19:42.292 --> 00:19:44.809 And you know, trying to tell an eight-year-old 00:19:44.833 --> 00:19:47.268 not to interact with their friends, 00:19:47.292 --> 00:19:48.559 is a real challenge. 00:19:48.583 --> 00:19:52.393 By the way, trying to tell a 17-year-old not to interact with their friends 00:19:52.417 --> 00:19:54.268 is going to be a real challenge. 00:19:54.292 --> 00:19:57.309 So, we've got to properly educate these kids, 00:19:57.333 --> 00:20:00.434 we've got to figure out how we stagger their schedules. 00:20:00.458 --> 00:20:03.393 Uri's idea for the workforce 00:20:03.417 --> 00:20:06.934 might be an interesting concept for schools, 00:20:06.958 --> 00:20:10.851 because the idea is to try to decompress the number of kids in the classroom. 00:20:10.875 --> 00:20:14.500 By the way, if you get smaller class size, you get better education, anyway. 00:20:15.458 --> 00:20:17.768 So, we've got to have enough teachers, though. 00:20:17.792 --> 00:20:19.750 So that may be the rate limiting step. NOTE Paragraph 00:20:20.667 --> 00:20:24.184 CA: Alright, last question here for now from [Steven] Petranek. 00:20:24.208 --> 00:20:26.893 Masks. Advice on masks -- 00:20:26.917 --> 00:20:28.476 I switched that off, here we go. 00:20:28.500 --> 00:20:30.976 Advice on masks seems to have shifted. 00:20:31.000 --> 00:20:33.518 "Would most Americans who live and work in cities 00:20:33.542 --> 00:20:35.309 be better off wearing masks 00:20:35.333 --> 00:20:37.893 to also help reduce the air pollution particles 00:20:37.917 --> 00:20:40.268 they encounter every day?" NOTE Paragraph 00:20:40.292 --> 00:20:42.417 GB: It may help some, absolutely. 00:20:43.292 --> 00:20:46.018 But let me tell you what I would prefer we stopped doing: 00:20:46.042 --> 00:20:47.893 burning fossil fuels. 00:20:47.917 --> 00:20:50.226 And doing all those terrible things 00:20:50.250 --> 00:20:53.250 that we are doing to destroy our climate. 00:20:54.125 --> 00:20:56.143 You know, everyone's talking about the fact 00:20:56.167 --> 00:20:59.226 that we've had this amazing reduction 00:20:59.250 --> 00:21:03.500 in CO2 because we're not driving cars. 00:21:04.542 --> 00:21:05.809 I've got to tell you, 00:21:05.833 --> 00:21:10.018 that is the best evidence that climate change is man-made. 00:21:10.042 --> 00:21:12.476 All those climate change skeptics 00:21:12.500 --> 00:21:14.934 who don't think climate change is man-made, 00:21:14.958 --> 00:21:18.893 we have just had a worldwide demonstration 00:21:18.917 --> 00:21:22.226 on what people do to create climate change. 00:21:22.250 --> 00:21:25.143 And so what we need to do is stop 00:21:25.167 --> 00:21:27.000 and move to a green economy. NOTE Paragraph 00:21:28.500 --> 00:21:29.768 DB: Here, here. NOTE Paragraph 00:21:29.792 --> 00:21:31.726 CA: Thank you so much for those, 00:21:31.750 --> 00:21:34.273 I'll dip back in at the end with maybe a couple more. 00:21:34.297 --> 00:21:35.893 Thank you for this. NOTE Paragraph 00:21:35.917 --> 00:21:38.768 DB: So we're waving the flag for masks. 00:21:38.792 --> 00:21:42.476 But also, one of the things 00:21:42.500 --> 00:21:44.059 that has become clear from this 00:21:44.083 --> 00:21:50.018 is that COVID-19 is not the great leveler that maybe some had hoped it was. 00:21:50.042 --> 00:21:54.101 Some communities are experiencing much worse, 00:21:54.125 --> 00:21:56.643 significantly worse outcomes than others. 00:21:56.667 --> 00:21:57.917 Why is that? NOTE Paragraph 00:21:59.667 --> 00:22:02.351 GB: We're talking principally about the African American 00:22:02.375 --> 00:22:03.851 and Latino communities 00:22:03.875 --> 00:22:09.559 that seem to be disproportionately impacted if they get the disease. 00:22:09.583 --> 00:22:12.809 And it's because of exposure, primarily. 00:22:12.833 --> 00:22:15.684 Those populations have more public-facing jobs. 00:22:15.708 --> 00:22:18.809 So, you know, bus drivers, 00:22:18.833 --> 00:22:20.101 grocery clerks, 00:22:20.125 --> 00:22:23.351 working in long-term care facilities, 00:22:23.375 --> 00:22:24.643 nursing homes, 00:22:24.667 --> 00:22:27.351 in meatpacking facilities, chicken farms. 00:22:27.375 --> 00:22:31.184 So that's why they're much more -- going to be exposed to the disease. 00:22:31.208 --> 00:22:32.458 Susceptibility. 00:22:33.583 --> 00:22:34.851 Lots of chronic disease. 00:22:34.875 --> 00:22:37.268 So we know that particularly African Americans 00:22:37.292 --> 00:22:42.976 have disproportionate amounts of diabetes, heart disease, 00:22:43.000 --> 00:22:44.268 lung disease, 00:22:44.292 --> 00:22:47.601 and because of those chronic diseases, 00:22:47.625 --> 00:22:51.726 we found early on that that virus 00:22:51.750 --> 00:22:55.518 is more detrimental to those populations that have those diseases. 00:22:55.542 --> 00:22:57.976 And so that's the big issue here. 00:22:58.000 --> 00:23:01.143 That is what's causing those differentiations 00:23:01.167 --> 00:23:03.476 and it's really a challenge, 00:23:03.500 --> 00:23:06.059 because in many ways, 00:23:06.083 --> 00:23:07.851 those are many of the people 00:23:07.875 --> 00:23:10.893 that we have decided are essential employees 00:23:10.917 --> 00:23:12.976 and have to go to work. NOTE Paragraph 00:23:13.000 --> 00:23:14.268 DB: That's right. 00:23:14.292 --> 00:23:16.976 So what is, in your view, the public health intervention 00:23:17.000 --> 00:23:20.768 to protect these essential workers, 00:23:20.792 --> 00:23:23.601 if you have ideas on that front? NOTE Paragraph 00:23:23.625 --> 00:23:24.893 GB: I absolutely do. 00:23:24.917 --> 00:23:30.143 We started this by a testing strategy based on symptoms. 00:23:30.167 --> 00:23:33.101 And now that we have enough tests, 00:23:33.125 --> 00:23:36.934 we need to make sure that not only people get those tests for clinical reasons, 00:23:36.958 --> 00:23:38.559 and people who have symptoms, 00:23:38.583 --> 00:23:42.559 but also begin to prioritize people who are public-facing, 00:23:42.583 --> 00:23:43.851 who are essential workers. 00:23:43.875 --> 00:23:47.768 So, certainly people working in nursing homes, hospitals, etc., 00:23:47.792 --> 00:23:50.809 but bus drivers, security guards, 00:23:50.833 --> 00:23:52.476 grocery store clerks. 00:23:52.500 --> 00:23:53.768 They need to be tested, 00:23:53.792 --> 00:23:56.309 and they need to have testing with the periodicity 00:23:56.333 --> 00:23:58.476 that will secure them, their families, 00:23:58.500 --> 00:24:00.684 and give everyone the trust 00:24:00.708 --> 00:24:02.476 that they're not going to be infected 00:24:02.500 --> 00:24:04.684 and we're not going to infect them. 00:24:04.708 --> 00:24:06.726 People who work in meatpacking plants, 00:24:06.750 --> 00:24:08.018 as an example. 00:24:08.042 --> 00:24:09.559 And we've seen the real tragedy 00:24:09.583 --> 00:24:11.726 of what's going on in the meatpacking plants, 00:24:11.750 --> 00:24:15.434 because they are working in an environment where they're shoulder to shoulder. 00:24:15.458 --> 00:24:17.518 There are some other things they need to do 00:24:17.542 --> 00:24:21.447 in terms of figuring out how to give them physical distancing on the assembly line, 00:24:21.471 --> 00:24:22.893 that's going to be important. 00:24:22.917 --> 00:24:24.976 But again, Uri's idea is not a bad idea 00:24:25.000 --> 00:24:26.559 for this nation to consider, 00:24:26.583 --> 00:24:28.917 for many of those industries to think about. NOTE Paragraph 00:24:29.750 --> 00:24:33.351 DB: Yeah, we have to make sure that these truly are folks 00:24:33.375 --> 00:24:38.393 who are treated as essential workers, not sacrificial workers, it seems to me. 00:24:38.417 --> 00:24:41.875 And obviously, this is not just confined to the US. NOTE Paragraph 00:24:42.792 --> 00:24:44.059 GB: Oh, absolutely. 00:24:44.083 --> 00:24:47.143 We're seeing these disparities not just in the United States, 00:24:47.167 --> 00:24:49.434 but in other countries as well. 00:24:49.458 --> 00:24:53.101 And they have a lot to do with race and class 00:24:53.125 --> 00:24:55.184 and the types of jobs that you do, 00:24:55.208 --> 00:24:57.000 the occupations that you do. 00:24:58.000 --> 00:24:59.976 And quite frankly, 00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:04.768 we should have thought about this when we saw the first data 00:25:04.792 --> 00:25:07.143 that showed that in China 00:25:07.167 --> 00:25:10.851 people with chronic diseases were much more at risk 00:25:10.875 --> 00:25:12.601 and had worse health outcomes. 00:25:12.625 --> 00:25:15.268 We would have sped up our actions right away, 00:25:15.292 --> 00:25:18.226 because, look, that's happened with every new disease 00:25:18.250 --> 00:25:19.917 that's come into the country. NOTE Paragraph 00:25:21.292 --> 00:25:27.101 DB: So it seems like a lot of this goes back to that potential -- 00:25:27.125 --> 00:25:28.393 it's not an oxymoron, 00:25:28.417 --> 00:25:30.643 public health is everybody's job, 00:25:30.667 --> 00:25:32.518 and we need to adopt that. 00:25:32.542 --> 00:25:35.309 What does, in your view, 00:25:35.333 --> 00:25:38.101 a robust public health infrastructure look like? 00:25:38.125 --> 00:25:39.875 What would that look like? NOTE Paragraph 00:25:41.375 --> 00:25:42.643 GB: Well, you know, 00:25:42.667 --> 00:25:44.976 anytime a new health threat enters our community, 00:25:45.000 --> 00:25:47.434 we ought to be able to rapidly identify it, 00:25:47.458 --> 00:25:48.934 contain it, 00:25:48.958 --> 00:25:53.643 and if we can mitigate it, for sure, and eliminate it if possible, 00:25:53.667 --> 00:25:55.684 and then put in all the protective measures 00:25:55.708 --> 00:25:56.976 that we had before. 00:25:57.000 --> 00:26:00.893 So that means having a well-staffed, 00:26:00.917 --> 00:26:04.726 well-trained governmental public health entity, 00:26:04.750 --> 00:26:08.476 just like we have for police, fire, EMS. 00:26:08.500 --> 00:26:11.976 It means that they've got to be well-paid, 00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:15.059 it means that they've got to be well-resourced. 00:26:15.083 --> 00:26:17.768 You know, we still have some of our contact tracers 00:26:17.792 --> 00:26:20.958 out there using pen and pads. 00:26:21.792 --> 00:26:24.809 And sending things to Excel Spreadsheets. 00:26:24.833 --> 00:26:27.768 No, we need the same kind of robust technology 00:26:27.792 --> 00:26:30.768 that the folks at, you know, 00:26:30.792 --> 00:26:35.851 any of the online retailers are using, whether it's Amazon, etc. 00:26:35.875 --> 00:26:39.768 We're still looking at data that's two years in the rear 00:26:39.792 --> 00:26:42.018 to make data-driven decisions. 00:26:42.042 --> 00:26:44.434 We need to be able to make immediate decisions. 00:26:44.458 --> 00:26:45.851 By the way, Taiwan, 00:26:45.875 --> 00:26:47.684 you mentioned them earlier, 00:26:47.708 --> 00:26:49.434 I remember being in Taiwan 00:26:49.458 --> 00:26:53.518 watching data come from infectious diseases, real time, 00:26:53.542 --> 00:26:56.018 from their electronic medical record system. 00:26:56.042 --> 00:27:00.101 So, you know, we can do this, the technology exists. NOTE Paragraph 00:27:00.125 --> 00:27:01.809 DB: Imagine that. 00:27:01.833 --> 00:27:04.059 Wow, real time health information, 00:27:04.083 --> 00:27:06.875 what a difference that would make. 00:27:07.917 --> 00:27:11.309 Do you think that technology can help us here, 00:27:11.333 --> 00:27:14.958 whether that's the Google-Apple collaboration or whatever else? NOTE Paragraph 00:27:16.000 --> 00:27:17.643 GB: Technology can help us, 00:27:17.667 --> 00:27:20.184 but it's not going to replace us. 00:27:20.208 --> 00:27:22.893 We're nowhere near where we can sit back 00:27:22.917 --> 00:27:27.458 and have our electronic avatar do our work for us. 00:27:28.417 --> 00:27:30.434 But the technology can outstrip our work. 00:27:30.458 --> 00:27:33.184 It can give us situational awareness. 00:27:33.208 --> 00:27:35.768 It can give us real time information. 00:27:35.792 --> 00:27:39.268 It allows us to send information from point A to point B 00:27:39.292 --> 00:27:41.434 for data analysis. 00:27:41.458 --> 00:27:43.601 It allows us to do second thinking, 00:27:43.625 --> 00:27:45.518 so we're doing all this modeling, 00:27:45.542 --> 00:27:50.018 it allows others to check our numbers right away. 00:27:50.042 --> 00:27:52.976 So it could speed up research. 00:27:53.000 --> 00:27:56.434 But we have to invest in it, 00:27:56.458 --> 00:27:58.059 and we have to continue it, 00:27:58.083 --> 00:28:02.833 because obsolescence is always the evil part of technology. NOTE Paragraph 00:28:04.250 --> 00:28:07.518 DB: And it looks like Chris is back with more questions. NOTE Paragraph 00:28:07.542 --> 00:28:09.851 CA: Yeah, I guess we're getting close to the end, 00:28:09.875 --> 00:28:11.893 but the questions keep coming in. 00:28:11.917 --> 00:28:15.434 There's one here from Neelay Bhatt. 00:28:15.458 --> 00:28:20.101 "What role do you see parks, trails and open space play 00:28:20.125 --> 00:28:22.875 in assisting larger public health goals?" NOTE Paragraph 00:28:24.042 --> 00:28:29.143 GB: You know, green space is absolutely essential, 00:28:29.167 --> 00:28:32.601 and the ability to get out and walk and exercise, 00:28:32.625 --> 00:28:36.434 having sidewalks, so that you can have communities that are walkable, 00:28:36.458 --> 00:28:40.018 bikeable and green for utilization of all ages, 00:28:40.042 --> 00:28:43.208 it's good for our mental health, it's good for our physical health. 00:28:44.125 --> 00:28:46.268 And I always tell folks, you know, 00:28:46.292 --> 00:28:49.833 it's a great place to go when someone's gotten on your last nerve. NOTE Paragraph 00:28:51.750 --> 00:28:53.351 CA: Indeed. 00:28:53.375 --> 00:28:55.893 Here we have one anonymous question. 00:28:55.917 --> 00:28:58.518 Where possible don't go anonymous, 00:28:58.542 --> 00:29:01.518 because we're all friends here when all said and done. 00:29:01.542 --> 00:29:03.292 Probably someone ... Anyway. 00:29:04.750 --> 00:29:06.559 Let's see, but it's a good question. 00:29:06.583 --> 00:29:10.559 "There are many who are highly suspicious of what the real experts are saying. 00:29:10.583 --> 00:29:13.774 What have you found to be effective in helping the highly suspicious 00:29:13.798 --> 00:29:16.476 be less suspicious and more trusting?" NOTE Paragraph 00:29:16.500 --> 00:29:17.792 GB: Tell the truth. 00:29:19.458 --> 00:29:23.667 If you make a mistake, acknowledge it and correct it right away. 00:29:24.667 --> 00:29:25.917 Be consistent. 00:29:27.792 --> 00:29:32.458 And don't say stupid stuff. 00:29:33.792 --> 00:29:36.934 And far too often that happens. 00:29:36.958 --> 00:29:39.018 And you know, one of the interesting things, 00:29:39.042 --> 00:29:42.226 we've already been through this with the mask discussion. 00:29:42.250 --> 00:29:46.476 You know, traditional wisdom was that we only had people wear the mask 00:29:46.500 --> 00:29:48.184 if they were infectious, 00:29:48.208 --> 00:29:50.101 or you're in a health care environment 00:29:50.125 --> 00:29:52.934 where there was a high risk of getting the disease. 00:29:52.958 --> 00:29:54.518 And then we said, 00:29:54.542 --> 00:29:57.518 no, it's OK for everybody to wear a mask. 00:29:57.542 --> 00:30:00.268 And that's because we learned eventually, 00:30:00.292 --> 00:30:03.393 and became much more believable, 00:30:03.417 --> 00:30:07.684 in the science that we had asymptomatic spreading. 00:30:07.708 --> 00:30:10.351 But we did not communicate it very well. 00:30:10.375 --> 00:30:12.518 We said, oh, no, no, we're changing our minds, 00:30:12.542 --> 00:30:13.851 everybody can wear a mask, 00:30:13.875 --> 00:30:15.851 after telling people not to wear a mask. 00:30:15.875 --> 00:30:19.143 And then we didn't spend enough time explaining to people why. 00:30:19.167 --> 00:30:20.976 So we lost trust. 00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:23.143 So we need to do a better job of that. 00:30:23.167 --> 00:30:26.643 And then our leaders 00:30:26.667 --> 00:30:30.250 need to be very careful what they say when you have a bullhorn. 00:30:31.333 --> 00:30:33.101 And by the way, I've made mistakes, 00:30:33.125 --> 00:30:36.809 I've said things on TV that were just wrong, 00:30:36.833 --> 00:30:38.768 because I was wrong. 00:30:38.792 --> 00:30:41.268 And I've tried very hard to try to correct those 00:30:41.292 --> 00:30:42.684 as quickly as I can. 00:30:42.708 --> 00:30:43.976 All of us do that, 00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:46.643 but you have to be strong enough 00:30:46.667 --> 00:30:50.059 and have a strong enough personality to say when you're wrong 00:30:50.083 --> 00:30:51.893 and then correct it. 00:30:51.917 --> 00:30:55.101 Because at the end of the day, once you've lost trust, 00:30:55.125 --> 00:30:56.667 you've lost everything. NOTE Paragraph 00:30:59.042 --> 00:31:00.351 CA: Well if I might say so, 00:31:00.375 --> 00:31:03.101 just the way in which you're communicating right now, 00:31:03.125 --> 00:31:06.059 I mean, to me, that is a means of communication 00:31:06.083 --> 00:31:07.833 that engenders trust. 00:31:08.875 --> 00:31:11.268 I don't know what magic sauce you have going there, 00:31:11.292 --> 00:31:14.559 but it's very, very compelling listening to you. 00:31:14.583 --> 00:31:17.059 Thank you so much for this. 00:31:17.083 --> 00:31:19.434 David, do you have any other last cues? NOTE Paragraph 00:31:19.458 --> 00:31:21.518 GB: I've made lots of mistakes. NOTE Paragraph 00:31:21.542 --> 00:31:24.684 DB: Yeah, no, but it really has been a real pleasure 00:31:24.708 --> 00:31:27.101 to have you join us, and thank you for that. 00:31:27.125 --> 00:31:29.476 Just one final question if I may. 00:31:29.500 --> 00:31:32.518 You've been doing this for a while, 00:31:32.542 --> 00:31:36.458 what gives you hope looking forward? NOTE Paragraph 00:31:38.042 --> 00:31:39.976 GB: You know, let me tell you something. 00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:41.559 The one thing that gives me hope 00:31:41.583 --> 00:31:45.184 is when I see people taking care of their friends and family members. 00:31:45.208 --> 00:31:48.643 I mean, drive-by birthday parties. 00:31:48.667 --> 00:31:51.059 I saw that on the news today. 00:31:51.083 --> 00:31:52.851 People who are calling their friends. 00:31:52.875 --> 00:31:55.559 I've heard from people that I haven't talked to in years, 00:31:55.583 --> 00:31:57.101 who are just calling me to say, 00:31:57.125 --> 00:31:59.684 "I haven't talked to you for a long time. Are you OK?" 00:31:59.708 --> 00:32:01.393 So do more of that. 00:32:01.417 --> 00:32:03.684 And the trust we've had in one another, 00:32:03.708 --> 00:32:06.559 and the love we've shown, it's just been absolutely amazing, 00:32:06.583 --> 00:32:08.101 so that gives me hope. NOTE Paragraph 00:32:08.125 --> 00:32:10.375 DB: Humanity for the win in the end. NOTE Paragraph 00:32:11.333 --> 00:32:12.934 GB: Yeah. NOTE Paragraph 00:32:12.958 --> 00:32:15.684 DB: Well, thank you so much, Dr. Benjamin, 00:32:15.708 --> 00:32:18.292 for joining us and for sharing your wisdom. NOTE Paragraph 00:32:19.875 --> 00:32:21.143 GB: Glad to be here. NOTE Paragraph 00:32:21.167 --> 00:32:22.601 CA: Yes, thank you. NOTE Paragraph 00:32:22.625 --> 00:32:24.059 GB: You guys be safe. 00:32:24.083 --> 00:32:26.309 Your families be safe. NOTE Paragraph 00:32:26.333 --> 00:32:27.833 DB: Thank you, you too.