Asma Jahangir Ki Samaji Khidmaat - Javed Ahmed Ghamidi

The contributions and influence of
Asma Jehangir.

[Hassan Ilyas] First of all I would like
to know your impressions about

a woman who is the pride of our nation

a defender of freedom of thoughts
and of human rights

she struggled her entire life

fighting for justice

in the same way securing the rights
of people to express their opinions

Ms. Asma Jahangir Sahiba

I would also like to say
this in the beginning that

usually we have seen that religious people

who are interested in scholarly
knowledge, thought and Deen

they do not remember and appreciate
such personalities very much

such personalities come
and leave this world

she is usually criticized for
being a free thinking woman

however, I want to ask you that
the services of Asma Jahangir

how do you view her thoughts and efforts
in an constricted society like Pakistan's

and it was her death anniversary as well

if you can share your thoughts about her

[Javed Ahmed Ghamidi] This attitude
which you have pointed out

is unfortunately present in both groups

that is, religious people
overlook this aspect that

among the followers of
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

or those who are related to him
by faith

or those who call themselves Muslims

not all of them carry
the same point of view

a lot of things have changed

ways of thinking have changed

the way religious people
themselves have explained Deen

people's reaction to it is different

new ideas and new thoughts have also
influenced many people's minds

but they are our brothers

and they our own people

individuals of our community

if they have carried out
any service for humanity

for the country

for the nation

then instead of skirting dialogue with
them on the issues of Deen and religion

or expressing our disagreements

we must recognize these services of theirs

so this is a shortcoming of
religious people as well

and in our society the classes
which call themselves liberal

they too in the matters of religious
people face a similar situation

that is, such people who have not
only made sacrifices for noble values

who have played a great role in politics

but their background was religious

or they were religious scholars

or they were people who were
interested in matters of religion

to view them with respect to their
overall personality

this class is also hesitant
to view them as such

due to this reason it is
a very important thing

and one should certainly
draw attention to this

that we must keep
all our relationships alive

one relationship takes birth
from our home, our family, our community

if you look at Quran-e-Majeed

then how far it has taken
that relationship or its honor

it says that your biggest
relationship is with your parents

if they force you on any occasion
that you must hold a partner to Allah

which is the biggest crime

so you won't obey them but you should
not lack in good treatment towards them

this means that the relationship
which was initiated

due to birth or descent

respect for that relationship
in spite of this

where not only are they committing shirk

but they are also inciting
you to commit shirk

even then in the matter of familial and
social dealings and good manners,

you must not be lacking

this has been told; it means that the way
in which this relationship is unshakeable

in the same way your relationship
with your people, your nation

or the relationship
with collective humanity

when you will look at the world and
people around you with this broad mind

there will be disagreements

disagreements cannot end

there are so many disagreements

in interpretations among
religious people themselves

that is, for the same matter sometimes
you get three or five interpretations

the same situation occurs between
people of the same school of thought

you can gather many schools of thought
under the name ahl-e-sunnat

you can gather many under
the head of ahl-e-tashayyu

you can put many under
the name ahl-e-hadis

so you will get to know that among
the followers of the same path

the kind of disagreements in some academic
and some practical matters which they have

it is the same kind of situation with
those who present themselves as Muslims

but who disagree with you
and me on religious matters

because this situation
is an actual reality

so what can be the right attitude to this?

the right attitude would be this

that those matters in which we disagree

we should express our disagreement
with politeness and respect

never shut the door for dialogue on it

if you have to say something then say it
with the same politeness and respect

make effort to change the mind
and thought of people

even if there is any anxiety
about Islam and its teachings

then make effort to clear it away

that is a separate task of ours

but as long as there is no such change

then can we overlook people's services

their personality and the
values that they lived for

can we overlook them meanwhile?

so if you pay attention to our society

then the way in which

in personal lives

in individual matters

sometimes people have
many extraordinary talents

you can find those talents in people
from every school of thought

but there would be many other matters
in which you would feel

that this is not the right point of view

this is not the right attitude

similarly in political matters

I have said this many times before

that four things hold extraordinary status

if the present times have
given us any gift

then it is these four things
in political matters

one is this

that a trust has taken birth in this world
and it has achieved great significance

that the governments should run states
on the foundations of democracy

this is a great event in human history

that is, you can look at it from any angle
but there was no other way prior to this

that people must establish their
rule with the force of sword

and capture people and nations
through conquests

and after that nothing apart
from despotism remained

and suppose that they
chose a peaceful way

that way would have been of monarchy

so the institutions that
were built for democracy

the way in which different
constitutions were being made

the way in which a people's covenant

came to life as a reality

so this opened the path for us

to establish governments on
the basis of people's opinion

in the same way the right of people
to self-determination

this change came into the world after 1928

that is, it hasn't been a long time

even a hundred years
have not been completed

otherwise, prior to this it used
to be believed in the world that

if I had the strength and
if I conquer any place

then it is my rightful government

but now this has been accepted that

neither the governments
based on conquests are lawful

and nor can you violate the right to
self-determination of a region

if there is any ethnic community or people
in a region and they have a land as well

and they believe that they
should have their own government

so this is their national right and
you will have to accept it

the same is the case with
fundamental human rights

that is, people have had some abstract
sense of fundamental human rights

but it is a great achievement
of present times

that the thing which
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said

on the occasion of sermon during
his farewell Hajj,

it has been transformed into the charter
of fundamental human rights

at a worldwide level

it is obvious that we can trace a relation
between the kernel of the Prophetic saying

and the details that exist today
in world order

there can be disagreements on
some things in this as well

that the rights which were
constituted by Allah's messenger

have been transgressed by
men on some places

nevertheless, it is a big contribution

now you see that those
fundamental human rights

are present in every
constitution of the world

arrangements are made for their protection

the lawcourts do not give any
decision that goes against them

if such a law is made then it can
be repealed on the basis of that

it is not that perfection has been
achieved

but its foundation has been
laid on a large scale

so this is not an ordinary thing

if you look at it closely then
you will get to know that

a great transformation has
occurred in this world

in which the rights even of a common man
has gained this significance

and what is the last thing?

the rule of law

that is, it is no longer a thing that you
are a king and whatever you say

will become law

there should be a process
for the formation of law

and that command which would
be brought into force by any authority

it should come through due
legislative proceedings

only then it is justified

Asma Jahangir Sahiba was incredibly
attuned to these four fundamental values

her services to our society in
this matter are extraordinary

great courage and boldness in
the matters of justice

and with utmost honesty she
used to talk on these matters

and she used to talk such

that when rest of the
people kept mum

she used to be the only one speaking

that is, it used to seem like

that Allah ta'la has made this
woman as if from lightning

and those people with whom
she strongly disagreed

even if they faced any adversity

it used to be she who
raised her voice for them

that is, you can guess that the kind
of terror that was unleashed in our nation

and the way in which
different groups killed people

and on the streets and markets

they did not have any consideration for
children, woman or anyone

so the kinds of emotions that people
had against that

but when against those people

that is, when our army carried out
operation against those terrorists

and in that it came to light that there
have been violation of human rights

so she, who had in a way
did jihad on this matter

she had a particular viewpoint, and the
way she fiercely opposed the terrorists

but on that occasion she was
the only one to raise her voice

and she said that you
do not have this right

though they were the enemies of humanity

but even you cannot
violate their human rights

this is not the job of armies

that they take such steps in
their passion for revenge

so you can guess from this
her courage, strength and integrity

the commitment one should have
to one's path or point of view

the extent to which she had these
qualities

and how she was a great torchbearer
of these political values

therefore, in my view in spite of you or
me disagreeing with any of her views

all of us must salute her greatness

[Hassan] Okay, Ghamidi Sir
please also tell us

our society is generally
under the impression

that in this ideological struggle

a person conducts a press conference

or releases a critical dossier

or walks with a placard
or banner on Mall Road

"so how does this bring change?"

I would like to ask you

she passed away and yesterday
was her death anniversary

a gathering was also arranged

in entire Pakistan those voices which
could not speak up anywhere else

but they knew that it was the occasion of
Asma Jahangir Sahiba's death anniversary

so people said whatever they
had in their hearts openly

so do you think that an individual, an
unarmed woman if she wants then

she can change the course of a
society's vision or give it a new turn

[Ghamidi] There is no doubt in this

you can see that sometimes
the history of the world

has been changed by individual voices

I have always acknowledged that
those who pick up guns and swords

they have always only created
discord in the world

even if they pick them up for a good cause

then the world does not get anything
apart from discord and suffering

but those people who struggle
against oppression in this way

without arms and always with arguments

they strive to put their thought
across through their speech

only they succeed
gradually and effectively

this is not visible during that stage
because man is hasty

so they do not realize that how
the effects reach to the bottom

and what strength they give to people

what changes it brings
in their consciousness

and how do they affect
their way of thinking

it is a very gradual process

for this in my view the transformation
that has taken place in the West

after all, a transformation did
take place there, right?

there was monarchy

there was papacy as well

if you start reading the history
from the time of Holy Roman Empire

then you can guess what was the situation

in spite all of this there are thinkers

there are great philosophers and leaders

in the same way there are some people with
such dervish-like attitude

who have gradually brought that change

that after which the way I have
mentioned all these four things

they became universal political values

that is, today in the matter of nations

these very values operate as the standard

you say that the condition
of human rights is not good somewhere

you say that there is no
rule of law in that nation

in fact anyone can do whatever
they want with anyone else

so these are the standards according
to which nations are judged

how much restraint do the ones who
are judging enforce is a different matter

but at an intellectual level these
standards have been set

and on their basis nations are build

constitutions are made

converstations take place

and in the same way gradually
it becomes very difficult

for tyranny to rise again in a very
open and naked way

you see that in our nation this dilemma
has been there from the very first day

and it is that our establishment does not
want any democratic government there

however, it has to also come and go

and it has to also work behind
some curtains and veils

why does this happen?

we have gone far ahead of
other nations in this matter

as you said it is very constricted

in spite of this constriction there
is also much freedom

and if you compare it
with other nations

you cannot even imagine

(I'm talking of other Muslim nations)

you can go look at the Arab states

you can spend some time
in the Gulf nations

in the same way I have spent
ten years in Malaysia

in our nation there is greater
opportunity for freedom

freedom of expression and democratic
thought in comparison to these nations

who has given rise
to these opportunities?

in actual it is due to these people

someone has done it
in the field of knowledge

someone has done it
in the field of religion

in the same way someone
has achieved it in the field of politics

so it is these people due
to whom you see that

those people who
have the power of guns

they have to hide behind a thousand
curtains in order to rule

and this is that very intellectual power

which gives me the hope that
one day it will change the scenario

and we will get to see a free
democratic government in our nation

[Hassan] Inshallah Ghamidi Saab

it was about the life of Asma
Jahangir Sahiba's life

we got to know your point of view
about her services to our society

May Allah ta'la grant her salvation