Response to 23 Questions - Part 66 - Singing and Music ( Ghina aur Moseeqi ) - Javed Ahmed Ghamidi

Response to 23 Questions Part-66
Singing and Music Episode-9

[Hassan Ilyas] Bismillahir Rahmanir
Rahim, As Salam Alaikum.

Welcome to another Session of
'From the Desk of Ghamidi'.

The series of discussions
continues on the 23 Objections.

We are about to start the
66th Episode of that chain.

The topic of Singing and Music
is under discussion.

And we hereby start
the 9th Session on this topic.

Thank you very much Ghamidi
Sahab for your time.

We begin now.
We have been studying the Narrations.

Although this chain has
continued for long.

There are quite a
number of Narrations,

You have been reading each and every
Narration and explaining its occasion,

backdrop, and their context.

The applications that
have been done by the Prophet (pbuh)

during his life-time,
those have been elaborated too.

I wish you to carry on with that
chain, with an introductory note,

and which may educate people
as well, that such a huge corpus,

about 26 Narrations, and choosing
from hundreds of Narrations,

you have been presenting those which
are on the level of Sahih or Hasan.

In accumulating these Narrations,
the events and circumstances

in the life of the Prophet (pbuh),
his comments and the tradition

of the knowledge and actions
of the Prophet (pbuh)

to even compile them
and convey those to us,

( although today we easily read them)

however, it comprises centuries of
efforts and a constant struggle.

It is also a favour of our elders

that all these applications made by the
Prophet (pbuh) were made to reach us.

Which made it possible for us
to apply the principled guidance of Deen

and tell us as to how the
Prophet himself had understood it?

Hence at the start,
you may also explain to us

what a great blessing this in itself is
with regard to the Deen

that we maintain equilibrium and
stand on its right understanding.

How beautifully do
the Narrations teach this to us!

[Javed Ahmed Ghamidi] What
doubt is there in it?!

You imagine an era where there
are no contemporary historian.

In today's age, there are
incidences, personalities are born.

A lot of information regarding them
gets automatically recorded.

The newspapers get published,
now we have the radio,

television and presently, social media,
and similar means record a lot of things.

However, in that era, when
nothing of this kind existed,

and there wasn't even
a contemporary historian.

For about one and a half-century
we do not find any trace

of a contemporary
Historian among us.

These Narrations, which implies
the statements of people,

where this aspect is there that
obviously, these are not History,

these are raw-material for history.
Another aspect of it is,

had these not been there, then we would
have been deprived of a huge blessing.

Hence it is a great favour of people,
that they met the Prophet (pbuh,)

heard things from him,
transmitted those further,

and then whoever heard from them
they again transmitted those.

Hence all this material came forth in
the first century and a half.

And then those people who
felt that there is some distortion

also being done by people,
there are at times

by disregarding the context and backdrop,
the point made is completely lost.

The people are even making
use of lies in them,

and contaminating them as well.
Giving their own orientation to things.

Then such great people were born who
made an everlasting favor to this Ummah,

that they carried out the work
of their investigation and inquiry.

Its principles were ascertained. They went
deep into this historical record,

even to the point that today
we are in a position

in the 21st Century that keeping
their work in front of us,

{as regards their attribution to the
Prophet pbuh)

we are able to tell a few things to
the people that these qualify

to the level of Hasan and Sahih.

Otherwise, whatever we get
written in books,

if we put all of it in front of people,
then we will be amazed at their themes,

the stories and tales that abound in them,
political affairs, and other prejudices.

A person is totally perplexed.

This has been a huge work done
by Muhaddeseen (Scholars of Hadees)

and this work should always
be appreciated to the fullest.

[Hassan] Right, Ghamidi Sahab,
this point is clear too,

and the significance of this knowledge
that has been highlighted by you as well.

I wish that you connect your discussion
to the point where we had left it.

We are learning about the Narrations
with reference to Singing and Music.

Those sayings that have reached us
with attribution to the Prophet (pbuh).

What does the Corpus of Hadees further
hold with regard to Singing and Music?

[Ghamidi] We have read
22 Narrations till now.

Now I am presenting
to you the 23rd Narration.

Its text is originally taken from
Sahih Bukhari, and its number is 3034.

Baraa Bin Aazim R.A. reports that
on the day of Khandaq,

I saw the Prophet (pbuh)
digging the earth,

and lifting and carrying
it along, just like other people.

Baraa Bin Aazim is
a renowned Sahabi.

During the time of the Battle
of Khandaq

when the Prophet (pbuh) had been
toiling as had been the Sahaba,

he is narrating an incident from
that time.

I saw the Prophet (pbuh)
digging the earth,

lifting and carrying it along, just like
other people.

To the extent that the hair on the
Prophet's chest was covered by that soil.

[Hassan] Okay.
[Ghamidi] And there was

a lot of hair on his body.
The Prophet at that moment

was reading the 'Rajas'
of Abdullah Bin Rawaha.

And he was saying the words,
"O Allah had your blessing

not been there, we wouldn't
have had the Guidance.

Neither would have done
charity nor offered Salah.

So now reveal Peace upon us,
and in the event

of an encounter with the enemy,
then bestow us with steadfastness.

What is the doubt in the fact
that the enemies have attacked us,

if they would wish for mischief
then we would resist them too.

Undoubtedly the enemies
have attacked us,

when they would wish mischief
then we will confront and challenge them.

Then the Prophet (pbuh) declared
the words, "Abaina"

Then the Prophet (pbuh) cried out
'Abaina',

'that we too will confront
and challenge them',

he kept on repeating it loudly.
The original words are,

"Allahumma Laula Anta
Mahtadaina Wala Tasaddaqna

Wala Sallaina Anzalan Sakinatan
Alaina Wa Sabbit al-Aqdaama

Illa Kaina Innal Azaaqad Baghau
Alaina Iza Aradu Fitnatan Abaina"

This is that 'Abaina' regarding
which he said,

and the Prophet (pbuh)
was repeating 'Abaina, Abaina'

Yarfau Biha Sautahu,
i.e. he was repeating

this word again and again
and his voice was getting louder.

i.e. this Rajas was read by
the Prophet (pbuh) himself.

i.e. such words which we
hear from the Sahaba.

or which he used to read
on different occasions,

or earlier we saw that
Hudi used to be sung.

So it wasn't just that the Prophet (pbuh)
had advised for these kinds of things.

It wasn't just that the Sahaba
sang it in front of the Prophet (pbuh),

and the Prophet (pbuh)
had approved it,

rather at times, the Prophet himself
recited such 'Rajas' or couplets.

And this Narration
portrays to us

a very beautiful and
heart-warming picture of it.

Following this is the Narration,
about which you should be aware

that it is from Sahih Muslim,
in essence, from Sahih Muslim.

When I say, 'in essence', it implies
that its text is from Sahih Muslim,

and in some places there has been some
additions as well from some other sources.

And those comply
with the same standards too

or are found in other places
which are related to it.

It is then that they are taken.
[Hassan] i.e. the incident is the same.

[Ghamidi] It is the same incident.

The text of this Narration is,
in essence, from Sahih Muslim,

and its number is 1802.

See here, it is reported by
Salma Bin Aqwa, he states,

"Accompanied by the Prophet (pbuh)
we set out for Khyber.

i.e. this incident is about a journey.

It is reported by Salma Bin Aqwa,
he states,

"Accompanied by the Prophet (pbuh)
we set out for Khyber".

It was a night journey, a person among
the people said to Amir Bin Aqwa,

"Amir, won't you
recite some couplets of yours?"

Obviously, this taste also existed,
Sahaba used to request for these things.

At times we need a
pastime for journeys.

Or to rid its ennui or boredom,
or wish to keep alive some interest in it.

so we sing too,
poetry is also recited.

Obviously, these are the different
aspects of human life.

And with this variety in
life, comes its beauty.

So he said this.

A person among
the people said to Amir Bin Aqwa

"Amir, won't you
recite some couplets of yours?"

Amir R.A. used to write poetry.
i.e. in the times of the Prophet (pbuh)

or among the Sahaba (Companions)
of the Prophet (pbuh),

among those, everybody knows
about Hassan Bin Sabit.

People are also aware of the name
of Abdullah bin Rawaha.

There are some more poets whose
names are mentioned in the Narrations.

He was one among those.
Amir R.A. used to write poetry.

Therefore, he alighted
from his ride,

i.e. on the request from the people,
alighted the ride,

and started to sing
'Hudi' for the people.

There, generally, the
methodology used to be this.

i.e. on alighting, a rein of
a she-camel would be held, and

the person would keep walking like the way
a cameleer walks, and sing Hudi,

or the couplets would be sung.

So this was the common
way among the Arabs.

The Prophet (pbuh) was present and Amir
was reciting

'Rajziya' couplets in front of his Sahaba,

and speeding up the rides.
On that occasion, he was saying,

"O Allah had you not Blessed us,
we would have been deprived of Guidance.

Neither we would have performed
Salah nor would have given Zakah.

The people who have attacked us
if they create mischief,

then we too would resist them.

However, we would always
be in need of your Guidance.

We sacrifice our lives for you.
Hence, excuse us for the sins that

have been committed by us,
keep us steadfast in times

of encountering the enemies
and reveal peace upon us.

We are the ones
who respond to call.

People have called us, for the
reason that they have trusted upon us".

The original words are,

"Allah Humma Laula Anta an Mahtadaina
Wala Tasaddaqna Wala Sallaina

Innal Lazeena Qad Baghau Alaina
Iza Araadu Fitnatan abaina

Wa Nahnu An Fazlika Mastaghnaina
Faghfir Fidaa al-laka Mak Tafaina

Wassabitil Aqdaama inl aakaina
Wa Al Kayan Sakiinatan Alaina

Inna Iza Seeha Bina Aataina
Wa Bis Siahi Awwalu Walaina"

So these are the lines of
the poem, which he was singing.

When the Prophet (pbuh)
heard these couplets he asked,

"Who is he who is making
the camel's race like this?"

i.e. these couplets used to be sung.

There would be an environment
created out of it.

The people would hear them, and
get entertained by them as well.

And the animals too would
start racing as a result of it.

"Who is he who is making
the camel's race like this?"

The Sahaba said,
"It is Amir".

The Prophet (pbuh) said,
"May Allah have Mercy on him".

Hearing this a person said,

"O Messenger of Allah, now the
Mercy has become compulsory!"

This incident has been
stated earlier in brevity.

In different Narrations obviously since
different people state it,

Hence some details vary.
These were the couplets,

a part of which, we saw,
was read by the Prophet (pbuh) himself.

With this, we can guess, that these
couplets had become quite popular.

And many people
use to recite them.

I have a note on it,

"It is the appreciation of the subject
stated in the couplets of Amir R.A.

" i.e. when it was stated
"May Allah have Mercy" on him.

It is not just a Dua, rather an
appreciation is also included in it.

An aspect of
"How beautiful the couplets are".

"Read at an opportune time",
and "delivered in style".

Hence a part of it was
read by the Prophet (pbuh) himself,

and when it was read in this manner,
the Prophet (pbuh) praised them as well.

Now, I am presenting to you
the 25th Narration.

It is a lengthy Narration.

This too has been taken by us
from Sahih Muslim,

i.e. its text is basically from Sahih
Muslim and its number is 1802.

[Hassan] Right.
[Ghamidi] The same Salma Bin Aqwa R.A.

reports, he says,
"On the day of the Battle of Khyber,

my brother Amir fought a tough
fight along with the Prophet (pbuh).

However, at one point in time
it happened that

he hit himself with his own sword,
with which he was martyred.

The Sahaba of the Prophet (pbuh) began
making frivolous comments on this incident

They had a doubt about
his martyrdom.

Since he had died
by his own weapon.

i.e. what aspect was it?
He took part in the battle.

He was by the side of the Prophet (pbuh).
He was appreciated for his courage.

However, he was hit with his own
sword and he departed from the world.

So people started to make
unnecessary comments on this.

They doubted on his martyrdom,

as he had died because
of his own weapon,

and they were casting doubts
about his other affairs too.

i.e. the debate began whether
it was martyrdom or a suicide?

What is the situation?

Salma states that after the
Prophet (pbuh) returned from Khyber,

So on the way, I asked him
"O the Messenger of Allah,

if you permit me then I will recite
some 'Rajziya' couplets to you.

When the Prophet (pbuh) allowed him
then Umar Bin Khattab R.A. said,

"Salma whatever you say, you must do so
after due reflection.'

i.e. it was a warning from him,
that you are seeking permission

from the Prophet (pbuh).
These couplets will be recited

in the holy presence of the
Prophet (pbuh), then be careful,

there shouldn't be any content, which
offends the nature of the Prophet.

When the Prophet (pbuh)
allowed him then Umar R.A. said,

"Salma what ever you say
should be after due consideration".

Hence I recited these couplets,
"By Allah, had His Blessings

not been there, we would neither
have had His Guidance

nor ​offered Salah
or given Zakah".

The same couplets.
When the Prophet listened to this

he said, "True". He read further,
"Reveal Peace upon us

and in case of an encounter
with the enemy,

keep us steadfast, the Mushrikeen
(Polytheists) have attacked us.

They demanded 'disbelief' from us,
like they had done.

However, we declined their
demand, there is no doubt that

the people who have attacked us
when they would create mischief,

we would confront them too".
These couplets have been read earlier

and I am reading
just their translation.

Salma told us that when he was
done with the reading of this 'Rajas',

then the Prophet asked him
"Whose couplets are these?"

I said, "These couplets were sung
by my brother Amir R.A."

The Prophet (pbuh) stated,
"May Allah have Mercy on him".

Salma says that I said,
"O Messenger of Allah,

some people had been hesitant
even to offer his funeral Salah!"

They opined that this is
a person killed by his own weapon.

When the Prophet (pbuh)
listened to this point from me,

he said, "People are absolutely wrong,
rather he was a true 'Mujahid',

and has attained martyrdom
fighting in the path of Allah.

Hence there is
double reward for him,

and while saying this the Prophet (pbuh)
also gestured with his two fingers.

Hence here too
the same topic is there.

i.e. in all three there
is just the same point,

i.e. the Prophet (pbuh) requested
to recite some 'Rajzia' couplets,

on an occasion he read
a part of it himself,

on some occasions,
the request was made,

so the Prophet not only listened to them,
rather, after its recital,

he even delivered words
of appreciation too.

[Hassan] Right.
[Ghamidi] I presented these

Narrations to you.
Now I will, in this chain,

present to you
the last Narration.

This is the most important
Narration of this chain.

[Hassan] Okay, from which aspect?
[Ghamidi] The points

that have come under discussion
in these narrations,

we learned various realities
in their different aspects.

We learned that the Prophet (pbuh)
was himself listening to these.

Was making others listen to it. At times
he himself provided an instrument

by providing a 'salver' (or platter).

At times it is only Singing
which has been mentioned.

Similarly, we looked into
their intricacies.

We tried to understand them, if some
comments are made

in them, and their context.
However, in all these,

what had been the point
which is under discussion?

It is the same premise which
I had said at the beginning,

that all the Fine Arts, i.e. Singing
and Music, Poetry, Painting,

all of the Fine Arts, in essence,
are completely Permissible.

These are adornment and
beautifications created by Allah.

Nothing among them should be
declared unconditionally forbidden.

It is their use or in some cases
ocassions of their overuse,

which at times are made
the targets of criticism.

The fundamental argument is not
just captured by this Narration,

rather it states them explicity in words.
Hence, I had kept it for the last

that I will read it to you.

We have taken this Narration from
Sahih Ibn-e Habban

We have taken this Narration
from Sahih Ibn-e Habban

and its number is 6272.

The Narration is, Syedna Ali R.A. reports,

"I have heard the
Prophet (pbuh) saying,

"I had never intended to commit
any of the vices

in which the people
of the pagan age indulged in".

[Hassan] Okay.
[Ghamidi] The word

that should be pondered
upon is, "Indulgence in vices".

Obviously, what had been those
vices will be made clear further ahead.

i.e. from it the Prophet (pbuh)
himself is stating,

that so and so is a vice.
The word itself is telling that

the Prophet (pbuh) is about
to mention the name of some vice.

Hence the original Arabic words
of this are,

"Ma Hamamtu Bi Qabihim Mimma
Yahummu Bi Ahlul Jahiliya"

"I have never intended to commit
any of the vices that

the people of the pagan age indulged in".
I have drawn attention for the reason

that the point that
will be stated ahead,

and when he will enumerate
the vices that they indulged in

then obviously there are
a lot of vices that could be there.

Many people were adulterous, stole too,
were dacoits and burglars as well.

Would bully the travelers too.

What are the vices that
are under discussion here?

And when the Prophet (pbuh)
is pronouncing them as vices,

then it becomes absolutely clear
that those really are vices.

"Vices indulged by the people
of the pagan age".

"I have never ever intended
for any of those vices"

i.e. the Prophet (pbuh)
said this about himself.

That all the vices that you hear of,
whether it is Shirk, or Adultery,

or it is drinking alcohol, I never
ever intended any such thing.

i.e. the Prophet (pbuh) had spent
this pure life even before Prophethood.

He is narrating
incidents about that.

"I had never intended
any of the vices that

the people of the
pagan age indulged in".

Except on two occasions.

i.e. the exception has been stated by
the Prophet that

on two occasions,
there had been an inclination.

And on both the occasions
Allah (swt) safeguarded me.

[Hassan] Subhanallah!
[Ghamidi] Now you make a note

of this sentence.
i.e. the Prophet (pbuh) is stating,

"Never have I intended for any vice",
and which vices are these?

Those vices in which the
people indulged in the pagan ages.

After that, the exception has been stated
that on two occasions,

the intention did develop.
And along with was elaborated

that just the intention developed,
Allah (swt) protected me from it!

How did Allah (swt) safeguard him?

Obviously, if the intention
grew for a vice,

then the vice got defined.

Right in the language of the
last Messenger of Allah himself,

it was known that a
particular act is a vice,

and when it was stated
that Allah (swt) safeguarded me,

then it implied that the means
through which the protection was done,

not only will we see that that particular
thing was Permissible,

not only that the act will be placed
at the point of appreciation,

and will be brought
under discussion here.

This complete point would
be clear that this is the act

by which Allah (swt) protected it.
And in this manner,

as I have stated earlier that
from the response of the Prophet (pbuh)

it would become clear, as to
how to see such matters

and from which angle it
should be looked upon?

[Hassan] A very
important point.

[Ghamidi] It was said, that
the story of the first instant is this.

i.e. twice had there been a temptation.
Hence the story of the first one is,

"I was with a Quraishi young man"

We were grazing goats of our
family in the elevated valleys of Makkah.

This is the period of youth.

Hence the story of the first one is,

"I was along with
a Quraishi young man"

We were grazing goats of our
family in the elevated valleys of Makkah.

I told my colleague to
take care of my goats.

So that I spend the night today in
Makkah, the way our young men do.

[Hassan] Okay.
The way our young men do.

So what is meant by it?

Those who are aware of the
Arabic poetry or literature,

are aware of the history
of the Arabs,

especially the history
of the pagan Arabs,

they are aware that with it, is meant
those night parties of pagan Arabia

which were quite
common in that era.

i.e. when the people used to get
leisure at night,

so a night party used
to be organized.

This happens even nowadays.
The moment the friends get together,

there are certain specific
places for such parties.

We are aware that they
have their different names

in different cultures and societies.

We have an extreme form
of them like the nightclubs.

Or people go and sit in the pubs.
Or they go into some other gatherings.

Hence among the Arabs too,
there used to be night parties,

and what would
the people do sitting there?

That was quite prevalent
in that age

and where the people would
sit and listen to singing

and music being played,
or enjoy storytelling.

i.e. they used to be young,
and you are aware

what type of songs would
these young men listen to?

What would be the
type of their conversation?

Among them, at times, the
slave-girls would also dance.

In the same way, such talks
would also occur,

which possibly won't
be liked by any gentleman.

Even in the villages,
such parties are organized.

so this had existed
even among the Arabs.

This was interpreted as a
vice by the Prophet (pbuh).

[Hassan] Okay.
[Ghamidi] i.e. sitting like this,

narrating mythological tales,
to sit and recount baseless stories.

To be in such company and
sing and play music,

and the absurd talks and
vulgarity practiced in it,

just imagine all those things.

So this was the vice declared
by the Prophet (pbuh)

which was intentioned by him.
With this is implied those night parties

of the pagan Arabs which were quite
prevalent in those times,

and in which people would
sit to hear songs and music

as well as stories and tales.
In the pagan poetry

pictures of such parties could
be seen at multiple places.

The Prophet (pbuh) says that
during the time of his youth,

he intended to attend such a party.
Since the Prophet (pbuh) has stated,

the vices which the people used to
indulge in during the pagan times,

so this too was a vice
among those vices.

Hence it became clear that
since this party would constitute

of music and song or if there
used to be the storytelling

or non-sensical talks, so all
these constituted the vices

as interpreted
by the Prophet (pbuh).

[Hassan] Absolutely right.
[Ghamidi] I said to my colleague,

take care of my goats, so
that I too spend tonight in Makkah

in the same way, as our youth spend.
This too was made clear,

that these parties mostly
were attended by the youth.

They would come to these gatherings

and would indulge in absurdities
and nonsensical talks.

He said, "it's okay",
i.e. he is a companion,

so handing him over his goats,
the Prophet was going.

He said, "Okay",
Hence I set out with this intention.

i.e. this was the vice for which
the Prophet said that he intended for.

I wished to attend that. I too
become an attendee of that party.

Hence, I set out with this intention,
then when I reached the point

from where the houses
of Makkah began.

i.e. this party was inside the
town of Makkah somewhere.

However, he had been grazing goats
in the elevated region outside of Makkah.

When he moved out from there then
first,

the peripheral part of the town
will appear.

So he says that when he
reached the point from where

the dwellings of Makkah started,
i.e. the place from which the town

or the city of Makkah would start.
Hence I heard the sound of songs,

Daf, and other instruments of music.

Now you see what are the words here?

The words are that the moment
I reached near the dwellings of Makkah,

"Same'etu Ghina'an Wa Sauta
Dafufin Wa Mazameer".

Now there isn't any doubt left,
what was heard by him?

I heard singing, i.e. the sound
of singing was heard by me,

"Wa Sauta Dafuf", and heard
the playing of Daf.

"Wa Mazameer", and heard the sounds
of other musical instruments.

[Hassan] Okay.
[Ghamidi] In every way,

it was known as to
what is the occasion?

And what is being heard.
Do keep in mind that

the party in which the
Prophet (pbuh) had intended to go

that is further down the way.
So he says,

"When I reached the place where the houses
of Makkah began,

then I heard the sounds of singing,
Daf and of other musical instruments.

i.e. you were repeatedly
asking about Daf being incuded,

so now you may note the mention
of other musical instruments.

i.e. all the things that are under
discussion are included here in this.

What are those things?
Listen once more,

singing, Daf, and other musical
instruments' sounds were heard,

"I asked the people
what is going on?"

Obviously, he knew
about that place,

where the youth would gather
and night parties would be organized?

However, these were unusual
sounds that were heard,

therefore he asked what is going on?
They informed, i.e. the people

informed him about a
person among the Quraish,

who had married a Quraish woman,

i.e. so and so has married
such and such woman.

"When I heard this
I sat down to watch".

i.e. now you see what has happened?
i.e. the Prophet has been told that

the sounds that you are
hearing are the songs

being sung at a marriage party,
Daf is being played,

and other musical instruments
are being played too.

This was heard by the Prophet (pbuh).
On hearing, he asked the people.

He became aware that it wasn't that
night party which he had intended for.

Actually, it is a house of a Quraish,
a marriage has taken place,

and on that occasion,
a flute-like instrument is being played,

or there are other musical
instruments or songs are being sung.

This was heard by him.
"When I heard this, I sat down to watch".

[Hassan] Okay.
[Ghamidi] i.e. the Prophet (pbuh)

instead of heading towards that
night party, sat down there itself.

And sat there to watch it.

Hence I was so engrossed
with the sounds of singing

and music to the extent that
I took a nap and slept there.

[Hassan] Okay.
[Ghamidi] i.e. I was watching it,

and kept on listening to it till the
time I felt sleepy and finally slept.

Only to be woken up by
the bright sunshine of the following day.

Now you listen to the
original words used, which are,

"Fa Jalastu Anzur Fa Lahautu
Bi Zaalikal Ghina Wa Bi Zaalika

Saut Hatta Ghalabat Ni Aini Wa Nimtu
Wa Ma Aikazani Illa Massush Shams"

Listen again to it,
"Therefore I got so engrossed

with the Sound of singing and music".
It has been stated above that

there had been singing, Daf was
also being played,

and there were other musical
instruments being played as well.

He sat down to listen to them.
That nightly party which

the Prophet (pbuh) had
termed as a vice,

he did not go there.
However, what was happening here?

Singing and music
were being played.

There were music and
the playing of musical instruments.

The Daf was being played too.
This was happening.

Hence I got so engrossed
with the melodies of singing

and music that I felt sleepy
and slept there itself,

only to be woken up by the bright
sunshine of the following morning".

"On waking up, I returned to
my colleague." i.e. he didn't go there,

firstly, he kept listening, then got
so engrossed with it and felt sleepy.

The Prophet (pbuh) says that
I slept there.

When he woke up
it was bright sunshine.

"When I woke up I returned
to my colleague.

who asked about
my business during last night?"

"Hence, I narrated
this tale to him".

The same thing happened
the following night.

What had the Prophet
(pbuh) said in the beginning?

"I had intended twice".
[Hassan] Yes.

[Ghamidi] Now the fact is,

the vice that the
Prophet (pbuh) had intended,

he (pbuh) did not reach there at all.
On the way, heard the sounds of singing,

Daf, and other
musical instruments.

When he enquired, he learned that
some marriage is being solemnized.

There he got so very engrossed
that firstly he kept on listening

and later on slept there.
When he woke up in the morning

he returned. Obviously, that desire
still exists about going

to the night party,
as he never reached there.

I narrated this tale to him, and the same
happened the following night.

I got out from there and like
I had heard the sounds the last night,

the same voices were heard,
and regarding them,

the same point was told to me
which I was told the last night.

Hence I got busy
listening to them.

[Hassan] Okay, i.e. the
same marriage party.

[Ghamidi] The same marriage party.
It is possible that

the same house was having the same
affair on the following day.

[Hassan] Yes.
[Ghamidi] Therefore I got engrossed

in listening to them, to the
extent sleep overcame me.

And then only the heat
of the sun woke me up.

On waking up when
I returned to my colleague

he enquired again about
the night's experience?

I said, "Nothing".
The Prophet (pbuh) said,

"By Allah, post this, I have never
ever intended any such vice

which the people indulged in
during the pagan eras,

till the extent Allah (swt) bestowed
His Prophethood upon me".

Now you see what do we
learn from this complete Narration?

That which the Prophet declared as a vice
was the nightly Party of the youth.

Singing and music
happened there too.

The stories and and telling of
tales were the pastimes there too.

What was it termed by him (pbuh)?
Vices.

And this gathering where the Prophet pbuh
had been sitting, what was it termed?

He is saying that through it,

Allah (swt) saved me from
committing that vice.

[Hassan] i.e. if this had been Prohibited
how could Allah (swt) use

a Prohibited thing to safeguard
from another Prohibition?

Hence this is
a help from Allah.

[Ghamidi] You see, this
is Allah's help.

The words with which this has been
stated by the Prophet (pbuh) are,

"Kiltaahuma Asamanillahu Minhuma",

i.e. where I had wished to
go was the place of vice.

How did Allah safeguard me?

The moment I had reached
the periphery of the town,

the time I saw that the dwelling places
of Makkah are visible,

the party in Makkah where I had
intended to reach was farther ahead.

I heard the sound of music,
of Daf, of singing there,

and got attracted to them,
and when I asked people,

I was told it was a marriage party,
I kept listening to it.

I kept watching it. The same thing
took place on both nights.

[Hassan] Amaziing.
[Ghamidi] You note that

each and every point is
made clear in the Narration.

That music, Instruments of Music, Daf,
Singing and playing of music,

in essence, are not at all Prohibited.
Rather, through them,

if they are rightly done,
then at times,

Allah (swt) makes them
a means to safeguard people

from frequenting
to wrong places.

[Hassan] Okay.
[Ghamidi] I have written on it,

"It implies that the party intended to be
attended, those two parties,

the night parties, where
the youths used to visit,

where there would be
vulgarity as well.

It implies that the parties
for which the attendance was intended,

I did not even reach those, and in
a marriage party, in a marriage party,

obviously, there wasn't
any question of vulgarity there.

"And listening to the songs
and music of a marriage party

I have returned in the same
way as I had the last night".

This is the interpretation
for the words

which the Prophet (pbuh)
said to his colleague.

When the Prophet spent the first night
and returned in the morning,

he asked, "What did you there?"
Hence he narrated here the same tale

which he had narrated
about the first night.

It meant that the Parties that I had
intended to go for, I did not reach them.

And after listening to the
singing

and the musical orchestra
of a marriage ceremony,

I have returned back in the
same way as I had the last night.

This Narration makes clear
absolutely that singing and music,

and the instruments of music,
not only that, in essence,

they are not forbidden, rather,
may even become a means

to keep away from temptations towards
Prohibited activities by Allah (swt).

[Hassan] Subhanallah.
[Ghamidi] i.e. there are many things

in ths world which actually
are activities of sin,

there are many things in this world
which actually are things of sin,

there are many actions that
in reality are actions of sin.

It is quite natural for
a human being,

the type of his/her personality
composed and constituted by Allah (swt)

leads him/her towards
temptations for them.

Their intention also
develops in them.

This develops in the greatest of people,
however, Allah (swt) safeguards them.

When Allah (swt) safeguards,
it also happens that

the Prophet (pbuh) goes
and sleeps midway.

And it also happens that
he gets engrossed in some

permitted aspect of that activity.

[Hassan] Okay.
[Ghamidi] There was some pure form

of that activity and getting
engrossed in it became the reason.

And as a result, the act of
safeguarding took place.

Hence the Prophet (pbuh) himself stated
that thus Allah (swt) protected me.

Hence, you see, the words of

"Kiltahuma Asamanillahu Minhuma"

The Prophet (pbuh) was
engrossed in this activity,

i.e. what was this in
which he got engrossed?

There was singing and music,
the instruments of music as well,

however, there wasn't any
absurdity, any vulgar activity.

There wasn't any
propagation of obscenity.

There weren't any interactions
that was usual among the youth.

Rather, during an occasion
of a marriage ceremony,

there were songs of mirth
and music of that same kind.

Hence you see that from
the words of

"Kiltahuma Asamanillahu Minhuma"

the Prophet (pbuh) remaining
engrossed in such an activity,

and saving his participation
in the nonsensical activity

of the pagan era
has been termed as

the safeguarding done
by Allah (swt).

It is clear from the Narration
that this point was stated by him

after his appointment as
the Prophet (pbuh) as he says

at the end of the Narration

"To the extent that Allah (swt)
bestowed His Prophethood upon me".

It is clear from the Narration that
this point was stated

after his appointment
as a Prophet

and in this way,

he approved this even after
attaining his status as a Prophet.

[Hassan] Okay.
[Ghamidi] i.e. one may not think

that this is some
earlier impression of his.

This is being stated by the
Prophet after achieving Prophethood.

And every point has been discussed in it.

It has been told what are the parties
of singing and music, conversations,

which should be termed as vice.
It has been told

what are the parties of singing

and playing of music,

and such activities which are
Permissible in every way

and in them even I took
part or listened to,

then there was no harm in it,

rather Allah (swt) actually
got me engaged in them

so that I am protected
from those other vices.

Hence the whole picture
comes right in front of us,

after which I don't think there remains
a further scope for a discussion.

That this Music, and
this Singing,

on which we are discussing,
none of these,

in essence, are Prohibited.

These are actually that
environment, the conditions

in which such a party, if organized.

In the same way, there are
those themes or topics

which at times to propagate
them to others,

we make use of this effective medium.

Those are the ones
that should be criticized.

The attention should also
be drawn towards them.

If the people are to be barred
from them then that too should be done.

Otherwise, in essence, none
of these activities are Prohibited.

[Hassan] Ghamidi Saab, this Narration
which you have read in the end,

seems quite decisive and
with beauty and excellence,

it presents clearly like 2 and 2 make 4
the complete preface

which you had
presented at the beginning.

A question was coming to mind
as to why did you present it in the last?

If you had presented this
Narration in the beginning

then the complete debate
that is done that okay

if it isn't proved from the Quran,
it is proved by Hadees,

then this Narration singly should
have been sufficient for it?

[Ghamidi] In this gathering,

where you are presenting
the objections to me,

I take care of the point that
the complete argument should be analyzed.

Hence to review the
complete arguments,

it was necessary that whatever
is there in the Quran

or whatever is there
in the Narrations,

that should come in front of
the people at a glance.

They should see for themselves
what are the points

that are made the basis of arguments,
then they should be told in the end that

the inferences which have been done,
the opinion that has been formed

and those are based on
clear injunctions

i.e. what are the five principles for
Prohibitions mentioned in the Quran?

When the Prophet of Allah
states the Prohibitions

then what is the style
and methodology for it?

If something is to be declared
as 'Prohibited' then

what are the clear pieces of
evidence that are to be presented?

All this training is necessary
for the reason that till the time

we are not ready to look into all the
material which

constitutes the Deen in this way,

we will be facing a similar situation,
which we come across,

and at times such
things enter Deen,

the existence of which corrpupts
the whole concept of the Deen.

[Hassan] The last question
for today's session.

Let us try and close in
the whole discussion.

Each and every Narration came under
discussion spanning several sessions.

We explored the
whole corpus of Hadees.

Tell me in the end,
that which you explained

that in all there are about 26 incidents,
those have occurred in hundreds of books,

And I would like to mention

here that this complete work
has been published.

It is available on the website
of Ghamidi Sahab,

this work has been carried
out under the Hadees Project,

and the app is available there as well.
People may study there too.

We would also provide
its link in the description.

Do tell us, it is said that there still
are some more Hadees

some 'Zayeef' Narrations,

some Narrations which
have some discussion on music too.

Were you aware of those and
you did not present them purposely?

[Ghamidi] Such are there
on every subject.

You pick any subject,
the subject of Salah, Sawm,

you will find many such things.
However, I have stated earlier,

that in their attribution to the Prophet,
when such points were stated

then there had often
been many exaggerations.

Many points were stated out
of their context and situations.

There had been many alterations.
Many of the things were such

in which there was the blending
of their beliefs, views, and concepts.

Hence the Muhaddeseen made
use of the art

which we call the specialized study of
Hadees. And then they chalked out

its principles and fundamentals. and
under which the regulations were formed

under which the Narrations are selected.

Hence from the complete
corpus of Narrations,

those Narrations have been
chosen and presented

which comply with
the standards of Hasan And Sahih.

Which can be attributed
to the Prophet (pbuh).

Other than these, the Zayeef
and Mauzu Narrations,

nobody should even bring them
to their lips, for the reason that

is it a simple thing that such things are
made attributable to the Prophet (pbuh)?

The Narrations which I have
presented them to you,

regarding them, all the
scholars of the Muslims

have unanimously decided,
barring one or two exceptions

that the knowledge sourced from
them is 'Zann-e Ghalib' (Most Likely).

i.e. with complete certainty,
we may not even say about these

that any point or deed
or any approval of the Prophet (pbuh),

has reached us with complete finality.

Regarding them, the
knowledge of Muslims

has concluded to the point
that 'Most Likely' knowledge

is available from these.

A 'most probable idea' is apprehended
by these sources.

That possibly this is the saying
of the Prophet (pbuh).

Over and above this,

even these should not
be placed .beyond this status.

Leave aside that 'Mauzu'' and 'Zayeef'
Narrations should be presented,

and those are mentioned
attributed to the Prophet (pbuh)?

This is not appropriate
under any circumstance.

Previously too and even
now this point is stated that

whenever we are reading
these Narrations,

obviously the Narration is read,

and the reference is given
for the original text taken.

It was nice that you
made the people aware

of the availability of this
complete work with us.

Here the notes that
have been written

on the translation of the Narration,
in the same way,

very distinct explanations
have been written on the text too.

There it has been told about
the whereabouts of the Narration,

in which books are these found,
in which all forms it is mentioned

and where there are some
controversies related to their text.

All those points have been
mentioned there.

If people are seekers
of the true knowledge,

then they may
refer all these there.

[Hassan] Ghamidi Sahab, I will say
"Jazakumullah Khair"

(May Allah reward you) on this occasion.

There have been 9 episodes
so far

on the topic of Singing and Music,
then your points of view on them.

The arguments presented
by the Quran,

those places in the Quran
which are presented

for the Prohibition of Music,
each of these came under discussion.

And then we explored in a scholarly way
the whole corpus of Hadees along with you.

And tried to learn honestly
what do the Narrations say

of the knowledge and action
of the Prophet (pbuh) himself?

What has been the example
of the Sahab (Companions)?

We have completed this session.
Our time is completed.

However, inshaAllah, some related
questions and the doubts of the people,

while summarizing the points
of this complete discussion

will also be presented to you.

The time is up.
Thank you very much for your time.

[Ghamidi] Thank you very much.