1
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Khuda se Mutaliq Sawalat aur Ilm 
al Kalam ka Jawab - PART 2

2
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
by Jawed Ahmad Ghamidi

3
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
[Hassan Ilyas] Yesterday, I asked you a 
question related to hypothetical statements

4
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
that we use in relation to Allah, 
nauzubillah (I seek refuge with Allah)

5
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
That Allah can lie, or he can make a rock
which even he can lift.

6
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
You detailed out your views on these 
kind of discussions.

7
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
There is a relative aspect and doubt, I 
want you to explain us in detail.

8
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
When you are in a discussion related to
the existence of God,

9
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
the argument behind confirmation for 
God's being,

10
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
or the various aspects of atheism or 
agnosticism that are put forward.

11
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
It is said that you logically conclude 
the arguments with intellectual evidence.

12
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
And the other party to the discussion is
puzzled with your style.

13
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
My question to you today is that,
Even you include these

14
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
intellectual evidences and arguments in 
your discussions,

15
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
People often say that a conversation 
with Ghamidi Sahib is very rational,

16
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
logical, enlightened and intellectual.

17
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
So, even your paradigm answers 
these modern suspicion or doubt

18
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
by way of intellectual and logical 
arguments.

19
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Then what about simple and inherent 
arguments given by the Quran

20
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
as you often say?

21
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
[Javed Ahmad Ghamidi] Don't you consider 
the inherent arguments given

22
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
by the Quran as logical?

23
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
What I had earlier mentioned was that,
things that evolve from a specific

24
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
philosophical or logical background and 
people present these questions just to

25
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
?? of the religion.

26
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
These are the things that clearly convey 
that your addressee does not have that

27
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
perceptive attitude to understand or dive
into something of this imperative nature.

28
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
In that case you should follow ??

29
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Arguments will be have there significance.

30
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
The Quran itself is an example of 
reasoning,

31
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
But what sort of argumentation?

32
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
I had explained that reasoning only.

33
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
I often present this reasoning, infact
I have penned it down in my book Meezan.

34
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
If you read the topic of 
"Believe in Allah" in my book,

35
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
I have explained in detail that how
Allah himself has presented arguments

36
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
on his own essence.

37
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
That is the argumentation that I term 
as Fitri "simple" reasoning.

38
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
The argumentation that is based on the
intellect of common people.

39
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Its evident that when we focus our 
attention towards God, and say that

40
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
look around the world, try to comprehend 
what is around you,

41
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
try to look at your own existence, try
to understand how God has bestowed

42
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
different abilities and wisdom to 
different creatures in the world.

43
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
So, are they only trying to find reasons?

44
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
I was actually trying to explain the way 
of reasoning.

45
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
I have never said that you should
accept the religious cases

46
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
without proper reasoning.

47
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Rather, I was trying to throw light on 
how the Quran educates us

48
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
to find logic in the religion and 
religious affairs.

49
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
There are two types of things: the 
first one is the knowledge that is

50
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
limited to our own understanding, and 
the discussion of argument is either

51
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
based on observation or experience.

52
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
In fact this is also the way of 
argumentation

53
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
which is employed in the religion.

54
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
For instance, there are few things that 
have been prohibited in the religion.

55
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Those things that have been prohibited in 
the religion and

56
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
why they have been prohibited in the 
religion.

57
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
If you want to base your argument on 
why certain things are prohibited

58
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
in the religion on experience or observation 
then you can do that.

59
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Certain things are related to the world 
that is hidden from us and

60
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
we cannot see that, We cannot observe 
or experience it.

61
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Similarly, same is the case with the being
of God.

62
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Because it is not possible the God can 
be shown to you or else you can

63
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
be called up into the heavens to observe 
God or his being.

64
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
So here in this case we can make 
logical conclusions.

65
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
How does the Quran educate us as 
to how we can make a

66
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
logical inference in relation to God.

67
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
The methods employed by our eminent 
Scholars and the experts of logic

68
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
do not relate to what has been 
mentioned in the Quran.

69
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Of course I was not having a detailed 
discussion at that point in time you

70
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
had asked me a question and I was 
answering that.

71
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
In reality, ancient philosophy paved the
way for discussions and

72
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
assumptions in this matter.

73
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
If you pay attention, modern 
science has rejected all of these.

74
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
These things were neither based
on experience nor observation,

75
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
then what was the basis of 
these things.

76
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
For instance, look at the philosophy of
idealism by Plato,

77
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
even Aristotle denied it immediately
after him.

78
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
And he clarified that in the philosophy 
of idealism,

79
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
ideas or mental images are considered at
par with reality.

80
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
If we try to culminate all the 
philosophies of metaphysics in one word,

81
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
then this is it (((?))).

82
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
In the philosophy of idealism, majorly 
mental state or circumstances are

83
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
considered as real.

84
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
And there has been such a logical
connection among the mental state

85
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
and the reality which corresponds to that
of a fictional author.

86
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
What does he do?

87
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
He creates the plot, circumstances out of
his own intellectual imagination and

88
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
also tries to visualize the characters 
from his mental images and creates

89
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
such a mutual relationship that while
we read a novel or a story we feel

90
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
like we are living a real world and 
all the characters in it are real.

91
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Therefore, the philosophy of metaphysics
which was even adopted by the masters

92
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
of Sufism was based on these fancy 
imaginative interpretations.

93
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
[Ilyas] Please elaborate about takhayul 
(imagination)?

94
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
[Ghamidi] Those things that do that
encompass your experience or observation,

95
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
it is an imaginative world that you create
on your own.

96
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
All of poetry is based on Takhayul 
(imagination).

97
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Imagination has its own beauty, but
only for poetry.

98
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Not for the discovery of facts and 
reality.

99
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
So, when this method was adopted then
these sort of logical questions were also

100
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
included in it, i.e. to measure the 
divinity of God.

101
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
To reproach the knowledge of God.

102
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
To connect the existence of God
in retain to space and time.

103
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
I have quite often tried to throw some
light and make people pay attention

104
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
to these sort of things.

105
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
"Ayaz Qadr-e-Khud Ba-Shanas"

106
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
The Quran has taught us a great lesson,

107
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
When people started to raise questions
on a very serious issue then the Quran

108
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
gave a response to it in a conflux.

109
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
wama uteetum minal-ilmi illa qaleela

110
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
i.e religion never proclaims that
"come we will show you God"

111
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
You would experience the divinity
of God.

112
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Or else come to us and we have the 
capability to let you observe

113
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
some of the attributes of Allah in 
the heavens.

114
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
We can inscribe the existence of God
by way of a sketch in front of you.

115
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
None of this is real, rather the Quran
clearly states that

116
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Neither is none that can be compared 
with Allah,

117
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
And if there is none like him,
Laysa kamithlihi shay'uw,

118
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
then how can you employ the
concept of similitude?

119
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
And without presumption and similitude,
how can you define something which

120
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
can neither be experienced or
observed?

121
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Therefore, the Quran has guided us that
a person should be taught from a point

122
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
wherein he has developed the innate
qualities of thinking about God.

123
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Like his existence, creatures, 
existence of wisdom in the creatures,

124
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
manifestation of nature,
manifestation of divinity,

125
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
manifestation of mercy in them.

126
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
When a person tries to see this 
world, the more he dives into it,

127
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
the sooner he accepts that there must
be a creator of this world.

128
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
It is pertinent to mention that

129
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
"It does not mean that, there is 
a creator" but there should be creator.

130
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Only after that the call of the
Prophets make sense to him.

131
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
After that he comes to know about 
the inception, power, knowledge

132
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
of Allah, as there is no other 
intellectual method for it.