WEBVTT

00:00:00.410 --> 00:00:01.460
Do you think this is.

00:00:01.500 --> 00:00:02.810
Maybe the ego shot.

00:00:02.850 --> 00:00:03.060
Okay.

00:00:06.680 --> 00:00:09.390
Welcome to Radio Eco shock this week,

00:00:09.390 --> 00:00:13.030
we're going to investigate attempts 
by the fossil fuel industry to

00:00:13.030 --> 00:00:17.150
capture otherwise green thinking ports 
in the Pacific Northwest of

00:00:17.150 --> 00:00:21.450
the United States and Canada 
to export carbon to Asia.

00:00:21.450 --> 00:00:25.370
It's a battle you hardly hear about 
citizens are lining up against

00:00:25.420 --> 00:00:29.690
huge corporations with huge money 
to fight off giant coal ports

00:00:29.950 --> 00:00:34.720
liquefied natural gas ports even 
propane ports if we commit to

00:00:34.720 --> 00:00:38.830
that infrastructure we commit to 
devastating climate change,

00:00:38.830 --> 00:00:42.950
not to mention the explosive toxic 
and polluting impacts of these

00:00:42.950 --> 00:00:45.590
big projects on the Pacific coast.

00:00:45.590 --> 00:00:49.960
It's species and its people will 
first hear from activist Kevin

00:00:49.960 --> 00:00:52.170
Walsh book reporting from Vancouver,

00:00:52.170 --> 00:00:56.820
Canada and then from green radio host 
and activist Daphne why from

00:00:56.930 --> 00:00:57.470
Portland,

00:00:57.470 --> 00:00:58.590
Oregon.

00:00:58.590 --> 00:01:01.220
I'll wrap up with some new science 
presented at a Harvard

00:01:01.220 --> 00:01:05.710
University research talk Dr. James 
Anderson presents why climate

00:01:05.710 --> 00:01:06.790
change is coming,

00:01:06.790 --> 00:01:11.040
much faster than anyone thought 
possible and why it cannot be

00:01:11.040 --> 00:01:15.650
reversed its eco shocking radio 
I'm Alex Smith let's roll.

00:01:24.210 --> 00:01:27.240
Multinational corporations would like 
to turn the gorgeous port of

00:01:27.240 --> 00:01:27.810
Vancouver,

00:01:27.810 --> 00:01:32.230
Canada into another fossil fuel colony 
after call port proposals

00:01:32.230 --> 00:01:35.770
were blocked by a public outcry in 
the American Pacific Northwest

00:01:36.070 --> 00:01:39.290
they wanted to call out to Asia 
through Vancouver there's an

00:01:39.290 --> 00:01:42.990
active proposal to steer dirty 
tar sands oil into hundreds of

00:01:43.010 --> 00:01:46.730
tankers through Vancouver's scenic 
inlets even liquid natural gas

00:01:46.730 --> 00:01:50.740
is trying to use Vancouver as an 
outlet we've reached activist

00:01:50.930 --> 00:01:54.620
Kevin wash broken Vancouver he's 
part of the group voters taking

00:01:54.620 --> 00:01:58.730
action on climate change or veto 
back Kevin welcome to Radio Rico

00:01:58.730 --> 00:01:59.080
shock.

00:01:59.710 --> 00:02:00.490
I think to be here.

00:02:01.150 --> 00:02:04.360
Let's talk about call how big 
is the export business from

00:02:04.360 --> 00:02:04.870
Vancouver.

00:02:05.980 --> 00:02:06.600
Well,

00:02:06.600 --> 00:02:10.320
right now we have to fully functioning 
courts one in North

00:02:10.360 --> 00:02:14.950
Vancouver internal with which exports 
exclusively be seen course

00:02:15.010 --> 00:02:19.310
in the coup these and then Wes short 
and so which is the biggest

00:02:19.310 --> 00:02:22.980
coal in Canada and depending on 
you know who was exporting more

00:02:22.980 --> 00:02:24.600
it's often the biggest of the business.

00:02:24.600 --> 00:02:28.350
Call for North America Neptune exports 
around you know they export

00:02:28.440 --> 00:02:31.430
around 6 million tons of 
call the year there,

00:02:31.430 --> 00:02:35.440
they're trying to expand that to larger 
large volumes sure exports

00:02:35.440 --> 00:02:39.230
in the order 30 to 33 million tons 
of call the year and about

00:02:39.510 --> 00:02:42.810
about 8 million tons of that call 
is US thermal coal from the

00:02:42.870 --> 00:02:43.630
Tiber River Basin.

00:02:44.470 --> 00:02:47.880
While so they truck at all or would 
they train at all the way up

00:02:48.000 --> 00:02:49.220
from Wyoming.

00:02:49.220 --> 00:02:49.960
I guess it is.

00:02:50.050 --> 00:02:50.850
It is in there.

00:02:50.850 --> 00:02:56.970
So it comes on Warren Buffett's 
be NSF railroad up through semi

00:02:57.780 --> 00:03:00.850
White Rock Crescent Beach all on 
the water through there and then

00:03:00.900 --> 00:03:04.250
up through around Monday and over 
2 cops who were shorter.

00:03:05.060 --> 00:03:06.710
Why to using American call for.

00:03:07.040 --> 00:03:07.140
Well,

00:03:07.140 --> 00:03:07.440
that's,

00:03:07.440 --> 00:03:08.940
that's a good question their hair.

00:03:08.940 --> 00:03:12.890
They were plans there were plans 
for 6 coal ports on the US West

00:03:12.890 --> 00:03:15.850
Coast is recently you know 
3 or 4 years ago.

00:03:15.850 --> 00:03:16.350
Yet,

00:03:16.350 --> 00:03:19.340
although 2 of those projects have 
either been completely have been

00:03:19.340 --> 00:03:20.880
rejected or abandoned.

00:03:20.880 --> 00:03:22.560
And the last 2.

00:03:22.560 --> 00:03:25.750
The one in Oregon on the Columbia 
River faces serious difficulties

00:03:25.870 --> 00:03:29.780
because it's failed to receive keep 
the last permanent through the

00:03:29.780 --> 00:03:32.940
last project and the largest at 
Cherry Point in Washington.

00:03:32.940 --> 00:03:34.750
So just south of the border.

00:03:34.750 --> 00:03:36.270
I'm also faces serious opposition,

00:03:36.270 --> 00:03:39.120
including from the Lonnie nation 
which is that right.

00:03:39.120 --> 00:03:42.870
We reject this year after the so 
public outcry public opposition

00:03:43.230 --> 00:03:45.970
and really strong committee organizing 
in the state has stopped

00:03:46.060 --> 00:03:46.980
all these projects.

00:03:46.980 --> 00:03:48.870
So that leaves DC.

00:03:48.870 --> 00:03:51.150
You know it's sort of the backdoor.

00:03:51.150 --> 00:03:55.470
But the dirty doormat for US call 
on its way to Asia and so right

00:03:55.470 --> 00:03:56.110
now there there.

00:03:56.110 --> 00:03:59.860
They have been exporting this 7 million 
tons a year for some time

00:03:59.860 --> 00:04:03.390
70 million tons by way of comparison 
the the Cherry Point

00:04:03.780 --> 00:04:07.410
corporate proposal a delegation would 
be about 48 million tons of

00:04:07.440 --> 00:04:11.630
call here and there is this new proposal 
to build a brand new coal

00:04:11.680 --> 00:04:15.440
port on the fridge river in Surrey 
export exclusively American

00:04:15.440 --> 00:04:16.990
call 4 million times now,

00:04:16.990 --> 00:04:17.970
probably more in the future.

00:04:18.690 --> 00:04:19.190
Great.

00:04:19.190 --> 00:04:23.010
So what problems do Coltrane 
polls for local communities.

00:04:23.430 --> 00:04:23.910
Well,

00:04:23.910 --> 00:04:24.200
yeah,

00:04:24.200 --> 00:04:24.490
that's a,

00:04:24.490 --> 00:04:27.540
that's a good point you because 
in a specially NBC and in Metro

00:04:27.590 --> 00:04:30.130
they could because the other 
support authority that has,

00:04:30.130 --> 00:04:31.410
you know it's a federal agency.

00:04:31.410 --> 00:04:32.490
It's,

00:04:32.490 --> 00:04:32.970
it's sort of,

00:04:32.970 --> 00:04:34.270
almost like a Crown corporation.

00:04:34.270 --> 00:04:38.670
It's also regulator it has absolute 
power over decision making on

00:04:38.670 --> 00:04:42.730
Port Lands and that's by land basically 
all along the waterline in

00:04:42.730 --> 00:04:46.820
Metro Vancouver so they can approve 
a coal port but they take no

00:04:46.820 --> 00:04:50.410
responsibility for the external impacts 
that generates in the when

00:04:50.410 --> 00:04:54.070
you're mentioning now is key Coltrane 
so-called trains going to

00:04:54.180 --> 00:04:54.770
communities.

00:04:54.770 --> 00:04:57.460
You know they're extremely loud and 
they often travel at night and

00:04:57.690 --> 00:05:00.830
the noise levels in these things 
are over 100 decibels when the

00:05:00.960 --> 00:05:03.550
but the way things are going 
and that exceeds you know.

00:05:03.550 --> 00:05:05.860
The World Health Organization says 
nighttime noise levels should

00:05:05.860 --> 00:05:09.420
be below 30 decibels for for young 
people from the elderly for the

00:05:09.470 --> 00:05:13.130
SEC others noisy also vibration and 
you know that there's problems

00:05:13.130 --> 00:05:16.930
and White Rock with the the cliff 
faces slumping because of the

00:05:16.930 --> 00:05:17.810
vibration.

00:05:17.810 --> 00:05:19.660
There's also a lot of concern 
over called us,

00:05:19.660 --> 00:05:21.990
do you know we don't know how much 
called us is lost in these

00:05:22.020 --> 00:05:25.590
trains and we don't know what the 
health impacts of law term

00:05:25.970 --> 00:05:29.920
exposure to low levels of particular 
are from the dust.

00:05:29.920 --> 00:05:30.900
So that's an issue.

00:05:30.900 --> 00:05:31.530
The biggest one,

00:05:31.530 --> 00:05:33.070
the biggest concerns a diesel exhaust.

00:05:33.070 --> 00:05:33.480
We know,

00:05:33.480 --> 00:05:36.830
diesel exhaust is a carcinogen and 
if a particular discrimination

00:05:37.610 --> 00:05:40.480
and trains run you know within a 
climate of a number of schools

00:05:40.480 --> 00:05:42.450
and daycare senior centers,

00:05:42.450 --> 00:05:45.760
they're already running now and 
the planet it run more them so

00:05:46.280 --> 00:05:47.890
people are rightly concerned 
about always look.

00:05:48.980 --> 00:05:52.710
How have activist raised Vancouver's 
dirty coal profile in the

00:05:52.710 --> 00:05:53.420
media there.

00:05:54.030 --> 00:05:54.260
Yeah,

00:05:54.260 --> 00:05:54.870
it's been,

00:05:54.870 --> 00:05:56.110
it's been increasing process.

00:05:56.110 --> 00:06:00.240
You know it well and in the fall 
of 2012 a community member in

00:06:00.330 --> 00:06:03.850
Surrey told me about these 2 proposals 
for the expansion at

00:06:03.870 --> 00:06:07.840
Neptune and the new call for answer 
it for his 3 dogs and when I

00:06:07.840 --> 00:06:08.570
look at the numbers,

00:06:08.570 --> 00:06:11.800
if you added up all the proposed 
capacity if all of that call is

00:06:11.900 --> 00:06:12.660
exported.

00:06:12.660 --> 00:06:14.710
It will be more global warming pollution,

00:06:14.710 --> 00:06:16.390
then you know the Northern 
Gateway pipeline.

00:06:16.390 --> 00:06:17.440
It's a huge,

00:06:17.440 --> 00:06:18.440
huge issue,

00:06:18.440 --> 00:06:20.890
but it's all piecemeal and 
it was under the radar.

00:06:20.890 --> 00:06:25.920
So over the past 2.5 years we've 
managed to raise the profile

00:06:26.060 --> 00:06:29.710
immensely our organization and group 
based in Surrey called even

00:06:29.830 --> 00:06:33.240
call in dog within this year than 
others it it's process of

00:06:33.240 --> 00:06:35.700
working with local governments one by one,

00:06:35.700 --> 00:06:39.380
getting them on board about the 
issues having them caller put

00:06:39.430 --> 00:06:42.850
forward motions calling for you know 
proper public assessment or

00:06:43.870 --> 00:06:48.080
health risk assessments of these 
projects and we've actually

00:06:48.540 --> 00:06:52.400
presented before Metro Vancouver and 
the region eventually opposed

00:06:52.470 --> 00:06:56.760
this Surrey outright various House 
leaders you know climate

00:06:56.790 --> 00:07:00.370
scientists leaders have all come out 
saying their post in this for

00:07:00.370 --> 00:07:04.070
everything from the BC nurses' union 
to you then see credit union

00:07:04.070 --> 00:07:08.140
to the fishermen's union too you 
know to groups of said this is a

00:07:08.140 --> 00:07:08.800
bad idea.

00:07:08.800 --> 00:07:10.080
So you know,

00:07:10.080 --> 00:07:12.780
we've held various rallies and events 
and we've presented at the

00:07:12.780 --> 00:07:14.610
Port Authority AGM and it's,

00:07:14.610 --> 00:07:16.120
it's really a simple issue,

00:07:16.120 --> 00:07:19.320
you know we're saying the Port Authority 
can't make decisions that

00:07:19.320 --> 00:07:22.200
affect our future as a region without 
including Arsenal's decision

00:07:22.700 --> 00:07:28.240
and they're an extremely arrogant 
and remote organization so that

00:07:28.290 --> 00:07:31.060
you know that the contrast is is 
so stark that I think the media

00:07:31.160 --> 00:07:33.820
understand this in the broader public 
gets that you know you can't

00:07:34.120 --> 00:07:37.330
do you think this anymore it's it's 
you now in the 19th century

00:07:37.400 --> 00:07:40.070
may not you know captains 
of industry where we're,

00:07:40.070 --> 00:07:41.330
we're a democratic society.

00:07:42.260 --> 00:07:42.480
You know,

00:07:42.480 --> 00:07:45.710
NASA scientist James Hansen famously 
was arrested protesting

00:07:45.710 --> 00:07:47.790
mountaintop removal for coal,

00:07:47.790 --> 00:07:51.010
but in Vancouver I was tracked 
east Simon Fraser University

00:07:51.010 --> 00:07:54.130
professor and world energy expert 
marked a card was arrested

00:07:54.300 --> 00:07:55.860
blocking a coal train.

00:07:55.860 --> 00:07:58.600
So it sounds like you are getting 
significant by in there.

00:07:58.980 --> 00:07:59.880
Yeah,

00:07:59.880 --> 00:08:04.320
it's a pretty compelling story because 
it's a very stark one you

00:08:04.320 --> 00:08:07.260
know we know that we need to radically 
reduce the use of fossil

00:08:07.320 --> 00:08:09.870
fuels to avoid dangerous climate change,

00:08:09.870 --> 00:08:13.230
and it's the one study after another 
is coming out saying that you

00:08:13.230 --> 00:08:14.470
know we could probably burn a bit more.

00:08:14.470 --> 00:08:15.690
The oil and bit more a gas.

00:08:15.730 --> 00:08:18.420
But we absolutely can't burn more coal.

00:08:18.420 --> 00:08:21.210
You know 80% or more remain on the ground.

00:08:21.210 --> 00:08:24.700
If women avoid blowing past any 
sort of faith thresholds for

00:08:24.880 --> 00:08:28.250
climate change and if that's the 
case and I and I believe it's

00:08:28.300 --> 00:08:28.690
true bits,

00:08:28.690 --> 00:08:29.730
and I mean I've read,

00:08:29.730 --> 00:08:32.830
then there is simply no valid argument 
for building a new Cold War

00:08:32.980 --> 00:08:35.510
anywhere in the world could when 
she it they're gonna want you

00:08:35.540 --> 00:08:36.010
that race.

00:08:36.010 --> 00:08:38.900
So it's very black and white from 
you know many things are in life

00:08:38.900 --> 00:08:40.240
, but this is very black and white.

00:08:40.240 --> 00:08:41.670
A new Cold War in Surrey.

00:08:41.670 --> 00:08:42.640
It's a bad idea.

00:08:42.640 --> 00:08:46.470
US thermal coal exports through measuring 
Hoover is a bad idea and

00:08:46.470 --> 00:08:49.180
it's something that we're standing 
up and saying no to thing I

00:08:49.180 --> 00:08:49.990
don't think this is right.

00:08:50.740 --> 00:08:54.080
Trying to stop fossil fuel exports 
is like playing the game

00:08:54.160 --> 00:08:56.060
whack-a-mole you find one project,

00:08:56.060 --> 00:08:59.520
then another one pops up like the 
recent proposal to ship out

00:08:59.720 --> 00:09:03.820
liquid natural gas via the historic 
Fraser River tell us what's

00:09:03.910 --> 00:09:04.600
happening there.

00:09:04.970 --> 00:09:05.200
Well,

00:09:05.200 --> 00:09:06.920
that's another at another 
interesting thing,

00:09:06.920 --> 00:09:07.670
I mean you know it,

00:09:07.670 --> 00:09:09.240
what's kind of most interesting 
about this,

00:09:09.240 --> 00:09:09.420
you know,

00:09:09.420 --> 00:09:12.150
I guess I should say most frustrating 
is that there's no,

00:09:12.150 --> 00:09:15.350
there's no real effort by government 
to make people aware of these

00:09:15.400 --> 00:09:18.860
things you know I literally stumbled 
across this proposal because

00:09:18.860 --> 00:09:22.740
I was on the BBC if I'm an assessment 
project or office website,

00:09:22.740 --> 00:09:26.600
and there's a new proposal recently 
posted 4 from this US company

00:09:26.600 --> 00:09:30.450
Westpac midstream to build an LNG 
terminal on the afraid and if

00:09:30.450 --> 00:09:31.710
you know where to look if you go there,

00:09:31.710 --> 00:09:35.180
you can see that and you can make 
comment but if you don't know.

00:09:35.180 --> 00:09:37.330
You know I gonna find out and the 
government doesn't go along the

00:09:37.330 --> 00:09:40.990
Fraser and you know put up things 
on billboards or or on telephone

00:09:41.060 --> 00:09:41.550
poles and say,

00:09:41.550 --> 00:09:42.910
are you concerned about this.

00:09:42.910 --> 00:09:45.600
The federal government has given 
us from you know this so that

00:09:45.630 --> 00:09:49.520
this when they realize the certain 
size they have to let the BBC

00:09:49.640 --> 00:09:51.710
in federal government's now and the 
government have to decide to

00:09:51.710 --> 00:09:54.310
do an assessment or not so auto.

00:09:54.310 --> 00:09:58.130
You know it's wisdom on May said 
okay will accept comments from

00:09:58.130 --> 00:10:01.640
the public until June 11 to help us 
decide if we should even do an

00:10:01.640 --> 00:10:02.870
assessment or not,

00:10:02.870 --> 00:10:06.040
and furthermore if we should substitute 
the provincial assessment

00:10:06.170 --> 00:10:07.460
for the federal one.

00:10:07.460 --> 00:10:09.550
So if you didn't go to the sea.

00:10:09.550 --> 00:10:10.800
If they see a website.

00:10:10.800 --> 00:10:14.240
The Canadian run of 72 website and 
see that notice you would never

00:10:14.290 --> 00:10:16.680
even known that there is a comment period.

00:10:16.680 --> 00:10:20.160
It's very frustrating because you 
know he's a big things and we

00:10:20.160 --> 00:10:23.070
all need to have a say so ways 
to back up to the proposal.

00:10:23.390 --> 00:10:26.510
This is a plan for a brand new LNG 
terminal on the Fraser River in

00:10:26.510 --> 00:10:30.370
Delta BC next in the cement plants 
Federer across the river and

00:10:30.370 --> 00:10:33.780
just up just upstream from if you 
know Richmond this sort of all

00:10:34.440 --> 00:10:37.800
water mania and a big movie complex 
and all that sort of stuff.

00:10:37.800 --> 00:10:42.660
It would see 120 LNG tankers a year 
and 90 L&G barges here and

00:10:42.680 --> 00:10:45.500
going up and down the Fraser 
River now in comparison.

00:10:45.500 --> 00:10:48.840
Some people are somewhat more aware 
of this proposal for wood

00:10:48.940 --> 00:10:52.160
fiber LNG in squalor should have 
a lot of press this proposal

00:10:52.410 --> 00:10:56.220
Fraser will be 1.5 times as 
large also in comparison.

00:10:56.220 --> 00:11:00.430
The big Petronas Pacific Energy LNG 
project in Prince Rupert would

00:11:00.430 --> 00:11:01.670
be about 7 times larger,

00:11:01.670 --> 00:11:03.660
so this is a fairly small project,

00:11:03.660 --> 00:11:06.540
but it was they'll see a lot of 
LNG tankers on the river the

00:11:06.540 --> 00:11:08.630
proponent in this to me is typical bear.

00:11:08.630 --> 00:11:11.450
You know the project summary description 
and says we want a bogus

00:11:11.600 --> 00:11:12.200
facility.

00:11:12.200 --> 00:11:12.610
It's,

00:11:12.610 --> 00:11:13.940
this is the footprint,

00:11:13.940 --> 00:11:16.760
we're gonna look at an endangered 
plants and archeological sites

00:11:16.760 --> 00:11:18.720
and what not right here.

00:11:18.720 --> 00:11:23.520
But once we sell that L&G and it 
goes an LNG tanker it's someone

00:11:23.520 --> 00:11:26.640
else's responsibility when I can 
assess those risks a crazy.

00:11:26.640 --> 00:11:29.280
You know that's absolutely crazy 
and in the United States.

00:11:29.280 --> 00:11:31.080
If you want to build an LNG terminal,

00:11:31.080 --> 00:11:33.780
the Department of Homeland Security 
and the Coast Guard require

00:11:33.890 --> 00:11:37.580
you do connect a waterway suitability 
assessment on the entire

00:11:37.910 --> 00:11:41.170
tanker root out international 
waters to a distance of 3.5

00:11:41.170 --> 00:11:44.870
kilometers on each side because that's 
how far you know I I think

00:11:44.870 --> 00:11:50.070
that it cloud of be approaching travel 
and still be explosive DC

00:11:50.240 --> 00:11:51.020
that doesn't happen,

00:11:51.020 --> 00:11:53.800
and there is no one asking 
the fundamental questions.

00:11:53.800 --> 00:11:54.490
The final question,

00:11:54.490 --> 00:11:56.770
is it a good idea to go and 
LNG terminal in the face.

00:11:56.770 --> 00:11:57.000
Really.

00:11:57.000 --> 00:12:00.060
They just simply must look and see 
if this will endanger plants or

00:12:00.150 --> 00:12:03.040
salmon or sturgeon at the 
site of the facility.

00:12:03.040 --> 00:12:06.140
It's a very narrow blinkered approach 
to assessing these kinds of

00:12:06.140 --> 00:12:06.530
projects.

00:12:07.020 --> 00:12:10.820
Wait a minute you saying that a cloud 
can come off of one of those

00:12:10.820 --> 00:12:12.270
tankers if they were to leak.

00:12:12.270 --> 00:12:12.690
There we go.

00:12:12.690 --> 00:12:16.430
3.5 kilometers possibly on either 
side of the river into an area

00:12:16.490 --> 00:12:17.710
where millions of people live.

00:12:18.530 --> 00:12:18.790
Yeah,

00:12:18.790 --> 00:12:21.840
I know that's no okay so many 
backup and and quite hot.

00:12:21.840 --> 00:12:25.090
So in the United States there 
there is a thing called Sandy

00:12:25.300 --> 00:12:29.280
National Laboratory essay and DIA 
and they conducted a study in

00:12:29.300 --> 00:12:30.600
the mid 2000s that.

00:12:30.700 --> 00:12:30.950
Said,

00:12:30.950 --> 00:12:31.630
you know,

00:12:31.630 --> 00:12:34.780
how are we going to assess the risks 
from LNG tankers and and what

00:12:34.810 --> 00:12:35.860
sort of garlands are you,

00:12:35.860 --> 00:12:38.870
are we going to create seems so they said.

00:12:38.870 --> 00:12:40.890
What's the worst case scenario.

00:12:40.890 --> 00:12:41.030
Well,

00:12:41.030 --> 00:12:44.150
the worst case scenario is you 
know an intentional rupture of

00:12:44.150 --> 00:12:49.090
containment of Ellen of all the 
LNG vessels on a tanker from

00:12:49.150 --> 00:12:51.450
something like a terrorist 
attack or an explosion.

00:12:51.450 --> 00:12:55.610
So in that worst case scenario what 
hazards will be created and so

00:12:55.610 --> 00:12:57.270
they said well within 5 kilometers.

00:12:57.270 --> 00:12:57.570
You know,

00:12:57.570 --> 00:13:01.340
everything would be burnt to a crisp 
and and after 16 and I mean

00:13:01.440 --> 00:13:04.780
you have burn hazards and and freezing 
houses in these things and

00:13:04.780 --> 00:13:05.920
he would decline over distance.

00:13:06.310 --> 00:13:11.770
But if that cloud of LNG that is 
free if Allen she didn't ignite

00:13:11.810 --> 00:13:13.940
right away as it evaporate.

00:13:14.030 --> 00:13:19.080
Soon turns to gas before dispersing 
it can still be a risk of

00:13:19.170 --> 00:13:21.860
producing a fireball up 
to 3.5 kilometers away,

00:13:21.860 --> 00:13:23.510
so for that worst case scenario,

00:13:23.510 --> 00:13:27.040
we wouldn't require that L&G proponents 
examine the risks all

00:13:27.110 --> 00:13:29.720
along that 3 and half kilometer route 
and we want to know if there

00:13:29.760 --> 00:13:30.650
are people living there.

00:13:30.650 --> 00:13:31.520
If there are,

00:13:31.520 --> 00:13:33.540
you know if they're significant 
infrastructure there.

00:13:33.540 --> 00:13:34.870
If there are,

00:13:34.870 --> 00:13:35.460
I know well,

00:13:35.460 --> 00:13:38.930
sort of any sort of property or 
public health and safety risks,

00:13:38.930 --> 00:13:41.710
because you know that in the States 
they say yet explicitly

00:13:41.710 --> 00:13:43.440
examine the possibly of 
a terrorist attack.

00:13:43.440 --> 00:13:44.950
You've got a look at the 
worst case scenario.

00:13:44.950 --> 00:13:47.890
Don't see what could happen if one 
of the things went badly wrong

00:13:48.420 --> 00:13:51.290
while and with so that that's smart 
to me you know you why you

00:13:51.290 --> 00:13:54.520
wanna know what the risks are before 
you privy sings before or

00:13:54.520 --> 00:13:56.630
whoever prism in Canada,

00:13:56.630 --> 00:13:59.860
there is no such requirement and 
although looking at here is the

00:13:59.930 --> 00:14:01.070
footprint of this facility.

00:14:01.070 --> 00:14:01.860
And it's to me,

00:14:01.860 --> 00:14:04.110
that's quite frankly because 
you know I am,

00:14:04.110 --> 00:14:06.610
I am no supporter of the 
Harper government,

00:14:06.610 --> 00:14:10.190
but I do know that they say that 
the risk of terrorist threats

00:14:10.220 --> 00:14:11.750
Israel on our soil.

00:14:11.750 --> 00:14:11.900
Well,

00:14:11.900 --> 00:14:14.640
if that's the case then why you 
looking at the risks from

00:14:14.740 --> 00:14:17.530
transporting an extremely volatile 
substance in these battles

00:14:18.030 --> 00:14:20.280
through highly populated 
areas I just make sense.

00:14:21.260 --> 00:14:21.560
Well,

00:14:21.560 --> 00:14:22.430
Kevin washed brick.

00:14:22.430 --> 00:14:25.780
We know there are quite a few environmentally 
conscious voters in

00:14:25.780 --> 00:14:28.600
the Vancouver region do you worry though,

00:14:28.600 --> 00:14:33.620
that your work to stop these proposals 
will push fossil fuels

00:14:33.850 --> 00:14:36.950
further north along the coast to 
swarms or to northern ports,

00:14:36.950 --> 00:14:38.790
like Prince Rupert or killed a man.

00:14:39.080 --> 00:14:40.250
That's events in question.

00:14:40.250 --> 00:14:41.220
I don't think so,

00:14:41.220 --> 00:14:43.980
I think you know those 
projects in the north.

00:14:43.980 --> 00:14:46.200
Local people they're gonna 
make their own assessment,

00:14:46.200 --> 00:14:49.070
I mean I know my thoughts are in terms 
of the risks to the climate

00:14:49.330 --> 00:14:53.000
from L&G interims of what groups 
like the CCP in the pen.

00:14:53.000 --> 00:14:56.840
The news you have figured out but 
local populations are gonna

00:14:57.480 --> 00:14:58.280
Broadway and assess.

00:14:58.320 --> 00:15:01.220
The local rescue themselves and I 
and I respect their ability to

00:15:01.220 --> 00:15:03.970
do that and their and their interest 
in the non-I think what's

00:15:03.970 --> 00:15:06.600
going on here is that you know people 
down here are very aware

00:15:06.750 --> 00:15:10.260
that there are these big projects 
proposed up north weather's L&G

00:15:11.060 --> 00:15:13.790
you know it's been pipelines and 
we often don't feel like we can

00:15:13.790 --> 00:15:14.730
have any for say,

00:15:14.730 --> 00:15:17.060
and in this kind of future for BC,

00:15:17.060 --> 00:15:18.520
but in fact metro Vancouver.

00:15:18.520 --> 00:15:22.630
We really are on the front lines 
of the fossil fuel debate in

00:15:22.630 --> 00:15:24.950
export debate because we have proposals 
for the Kinder Morgan

00:15:24.990 --> 00:15:25.640
pipeline,

00:15:25.640 --> 00:15:27.660
we've got a proposal for a new coal ports.

00:15:27.660 --> 00:15:31.940
Now we have a proposal for well for 
the L&G Fraser and the LNG and

00:15:31.940 --> 00:15:35.720
squeamish so people realize is that 
there's a lot at stake here

00:15:35.770 --> 00:15:38.030
and they are then it's more accessible,

00:15:38.030 --> 00:15:40.360
it's here you know you can have more 
to say you can get engaged in

00:15:40.360 --> 00:15:40.800
the debate.

00:15:40.800 --> 00:15:42.290
And you can learn more about it,

00:15:42.290 --> 00:15:45.610
so I don't think it'll pushing the 
way I think there's so many

00:15:46.010 --> 00:15:49.840
companies trying to push for so 
many projects at once that like

00:15:49.840 --> 00:15:50.100
you said,

00:15:50.100 --> 00:15:52.400
it's a bit of a lot more they're gonna 
pop up where they feel like

00:15:52.400 --> 00:15:53.580
there's a possibility.

00:15:54.110 --> 00:15:57.240
Where editor group voters taking 
action on climate change.

00:15:57.240 --> 00:16:00.500
Find most of its support to young 
people show up just older folks

00:16:00.570 --> 00:16:01.950
tell us about your supporters.

00:16:02.140 --> 00:16:02.900
That's,

00:16:02.900 --> 00:16:03.180
yeah,

00:16:03.180 --> 00:16:03.920
it's insane.

00:16:03.920 --> 00:16:06.300
So you know most of our 
work is done online,

00:16:06.300 --> 00:16:09.950
really we we engage with the public 
through you know you social

00:16:09.950 --> 00:16:10.960
media.

00:16:10.960 --> 00:16:12.050
When we do events,

00:16:12.050 --> 00:16:14.240
I mean we always work with other 
groups we do events too.

00:16:14.240 --> 00:16:14.650
So it's,

00:16:14.650 --> 00:16:17.330
it's hard to say who's coming from 
where about it really is a

00:16:17.330 --> 00:16:17.950
cross section,

00:16:17.950 --> 00:16:20.650
there's a lot of older concerned 
folks and there's also a lot of

00:16:20.650 --> 00:16:22.790
young people we work a lot with 
a group called Kids for climate

00:16:22.860 --> 00:16:24.290
action on events that,

00:16:24.290 --> 00:16:26.630
and they'd rather their sort 
of a high school audience.

00:16:26.630 --> 00:16:27.390
I think the.

00:16:27.390 --> 00:16:30.510
I think the concern is widespread 
view whether it's because you're

00:16:30.610 --> 00:16:33.040
worried about you know the local 
environmental whether you're

00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:35.120
worried about your future.

00:16:35.120 --> 00:16:38.500
There's something to be concerned 
about your think I guess for all

00:16:38.500 --> 00:16:38.860
ages.

00:16:39.370 --> 00:16:41.160
And so the tack.

00:16:41.160 --> 00:16:44.170
What do you think other communities 
say in the United States or

00:16:44.250 --> 00:16:47.840
Britain or elsewhere could learn 
from the way you're group has

00:16:47.840 --> 00:16:49.040
formed and operated.

00:16:49.920 --> 00:16:50.350
Well,

00:16:50.350 --> 00:16:51.480
interesting.

00:16:51.480 --> 00:16:54.390
I think you know our our whole 
focus is trying to create

00:16:54.420 --> 00:16:56.830
opportunities for the public 
to express their concern.

00:16:56.830 --> 00:17:00.580
The government we train connected 
off between climate policy and

00:17:00.660 --> 00:17:05.260
fossil fuel exports that put climate 
at risk because the climate

00:17:05.290 --> 00:17:07.640
policy discussion are often pretty 
abstract like the thing that's

00:17:07.700 --> 00:17:09.830
happened recently with perhaps Harper 
have been saying that they

00:17:09.940 --> 00:17:14.400
agreed to eliminate fossil fuels 
by 2100 well 84 years and now no

00:17:14.400 --> 00:17:16.310
one's gonna be here is alive now and.

00:17:16.310 --> 00:17:19.550
And that's just an absurd abstract 
discussion we have real

00:17:19.550 --> 00:17:22.070
products right here right now there 
are threatening our climate.

00:17:22.070 --> 00:17:23.170
So I think,

00:17:23.170 --> 00:17:26.070
creating opportunities for the 
public to engage in explicit

00:17:26.160 --> 00:17:27.080
concerns are key.

00:17:27.080 --> 00:17:30.270
And you know we've got a lot through 
public commenting websites

00:17:30.340 --> 00:17:32.940
like right now for the L&G think 
we've set up a website called

00:17:33.500 --> 00:17:37.880
real LNG hearings.org and that brings 
together all the information

00:17:37.880 --> 00:17:41.440
on the Fraser River LNG proposal 
and there's a commenting tool.

00:17:41.440 --> 00:17:44.500
Also you can send a message directly 
to the federal and run a

00:17:44.500 --> 00:17:45.060
minister,

00:17:45.060 --> 00:17:46.330
it's easy to local government.

00:17:46.330 --> 00:17:49.870
So my experience is that people care 
and they want to take action

00:17:49.870 --> 00:17:50.480
. You know,

00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:53.690
they may think that they don't know 
how or they don't know during

00:17:53.690 --> 00:17:56.690
the time so you create an opportunity 
put all the information.

00:17:56.690 --> 00:17:58.110
One place that people want to act.

00:17:58.110 --> 00:17:59.590
I guess just empowering people,

00:17:59.590 --> 00:18:00.870
that's the key empowering people.

00:18:01.430 --> 00:18:04.200
Can you give us your website address 
or your Facebook page.

00:18:04.590 --> 00:18:05.000
Sure.

00:18:05.000 --> 00:18:09.740
Our website is BT ACC.org 
that's a website.

00:18:09.740 --> 00:18:10.530
But the key,

00:18:10.530 --> 00:18:12.660
we're really focusing 
right now and on LNG.

00:18:12.660 --> 00:18:15.640
And so that's 3 real LNG hearings.org.

00:18:16.130 --> 00:18:16.440
Great,

00:18:16.440 --> 00:18:17.090
thank you so much.

00:18:17.090 --> 00:18:20.000
I guess Kevin washed Brooke is 
an activist in Vancouver,

00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:20.690
Canada.

00:18:20.690 --> 00:18:24.180
As part of the group voters taking 
action on climate change.

00:18:24.180 --> 00:18:25.200
I appreciate your time.

00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:25.480
Kevin.

00:18:25.520 --> 00:18:26.050
You're welcome.

00:18:26.050 --> 00:18:26.200
Take.

00:18:28.710 --> 00:18:29.280
We will.

00:18:29.950 --> 00:18:32.170
You're listening to shot radio.

00:18:32.960 --> 00:18:33.570
I don't worry.

00:18:35.250 --> 00:18:39.070
I'm Alex meth at all their 
vehicle shock.org.

00:18:40.890 --> 00:18:44.590
What is happening on the US West Coast 
where fossil fuel companies

00:18:44.590 --> 00:18:47.250
raised export carbon to Asia.

00:18:47.250 --> 00:18:49.760
Let's tune in with a long-time 
friend of the environment.

00:18:49.760 --> 00:18:53.490
Daphne why for 8 years 
out of Washington DC,

00:18:53.490 --> 00:18:54.010
Daphne,

00:18:54.010 --> 00:18:57.300
host of the syndicated radio show 
Earth beat on the Pacifica

00:18:57.510 --> 00:19:01.150
network her articles have been published 
by both mainstream and

00:19:01.270 --> 00:19:03.880
alternative media now 
Japanese in Portland,

00:19:03.880 --> 00:19:04.660
Oregon.

00:19:04.660 --> 00:19:08.250
As the director of the climate and 
energy program at the Center

00:19:08.250 --> 00:19:11.060
for sustainable economy at the same time,

00:19:11.060 --> 00:19:14.890
she's an associate fellow at the 
Institute for Policy Studies.

00:19:14.890 --> 00:19:15.330
Daphne.

00:19:15.330 --> 00:19:18.230
It's so good to hear your voice 
again on Radio Echo shock,

00:19:18.230 --> 00:19:18.940
welcome back.

00:19:19.370 --> 00:19:20.090
Thanks so much.

00:19:20.090 --> 00:19:21.260
Alex is going to be here.

00:19:22.070 --> 00:19:26.240
You know I were just on post carbon 
radio on K W M are in Northern

00:19:26.240 --> 00:19:27.160
California with.

00:19:27.200 --> 00:19:31.480
Bing Gong and current IOS it was 
a wide-ranging talk I'd like in

00:19:31.480 --> 00:19:34.940
this instance to drill down to 
what's happening in Portland.

00:19:34.940 --> 00:19:35.820
The state of Oregon,

00:19:35.820 --> 00:19:37.460
maybe the Pacific Northwest.

00:19:37.460 --> 00:19:40.910
When it comes to transporting fossil 
fuels are you up for that.

00:19:41.820 --> 00:19:42.400
I dream.

00:19:43.040 --> 00:19:43.470
All right.

00:19:43.470 --> 00:19:46.160
Why don't we start with Portland 
what battles have been fought

00:19:46.160 --> 00:19:49.260
their recently against becoming 
a dirty carbon outlet.

00:19:50.670 --> 00:19:50.920
Well,

00:19:50.920 --> 00:19:54.560
one thing that people may not realize 
is that not only Portland,

00:19:54.560 --> 00:19:55.630
Oregon.

00:19:55.630 --> 00:19:56.810
Barry hit city.

00:19:56.810 --> 00:20:01.120
It also happened to be one of the 
first cities in the first city

00:20:01.120 --> 00:20:04.810
in the United States to put in place 
a climate action plan back in

00:20:04.810 --> 00:20:08.900
the early 1990s Portland decided that 
it really needed to take the

00:20:08.900 --> 00:20:12.530
climate crisis seriously an admirable,

00:20:12.530 --> 00:20:16.750
the city had largely been ahead of 
the curve for the rest of the

00:20:16.860 --> 00:20:21.610
country and who has a reputation 
intact was recognized by the

00:20:21.610 --> 00:20:25.930
White House's so-called climate 
championships last December,

00:20:25.930 --> 00:20:30.840
despite its reputation or perhaps 
in addition to that reputation.

00:20:30.840 --> 00:20:36.470
The measure decided that it was going 
to be a good idea to invite

00:20:36.690 --> 00:20:40.950
one of the biggest tar sands pipeline 
operators in the Canadian

00:20:41.340 --> 00:20:45.210
out Penn Beantown Pipeline Corporation 
to set up shop in

00:20:45.580 --> 00:20:50.400
Portland's harbors and they wanted 
to export propane from the

00:20:50.520 --> 00:20:54.700
terminal here in Portland he welcomed 
them with open arms.

00:20:54.700 --> 00:21:00.130
A lot of us began to organize cried 
foul and at the time of this

00:21:00.550 --> 00:21:01.200
interview.

00:21:01.200 --> 00:21:05.150
We seem to have one were reluctant 
to completely declare victory

00:21:05.280 --> 00:21:09.700
because this corporation have bottomless 
pockets and is doing all

00:21:09.700 --> 00:21:15.020
it can do you fight back but we we 
need to campaign both based on

00:21:15.020 --> 00:21:21.100
both safety issues climate issues 
and we generated thousands of

00:21:21.100 --> 00:21:26.600
letters and very creative involvement 
from a wide array of folks

00:21:26.660 --> 00:21:28.070
here in in the city,

00:21:28.070 --> 00:21:33.540
including Rani basically first activists 
and people taking over

00:21:33.570 --> 00:21:38.100
City Council hearings and we finally 
got our message across and it

00:21:38.100 --> 00:21:42.380
appears that time you know it is 
not going to be welcome anymore

00:21:42.590 --> 00:21:44.340
in in the city of Portland.

00:21:44.340 --> 00:21:48.000
We want to use this victory though 
not just to say no one in our

00:21:48.040 --> 00:21:49.440
backyard,

00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:54.820
but also to alert people 
to just how insane.

00:21:54.820 --> 00:21:59.370
It is to be pushing forward with fossil 
fuel infrastructure in the

00:21:59.460 --> 00:22:00.790
Pacific Northwest.

00:22:00.790 --> 00:22:05.450
They have been the imperative that 
we begin to ratchet down our

00:22:05.610 --> 00:22:07.420
overall greenhouse gas emissions.

00:22:07.420 --> 00:22:08.440
Not only the northwest,

00:22:08.440 --> 00:22:12.740
but globally and to draw attention 
to the fact that the Pacific

00:22:12.740 --> 00:22:17.030
Northwest right now is in the 
crosshairs of the fossil fuel

00:22:17.030 --> 00:22:17.610
industry.

00:22:17.610 --> 00:22:23.130
They want to export 5 times the carbon 
and is now being proposed

00:22:23.250 --> 00:22:28.590
for the Keystone XL pipeline through 
our reports in Oregon and

00:22:28.630 --> 00:22:34.310
Washington is and very few people 
are aware of just how serious

00:22:34.520 --> 00:22:40.150
this however it is to our economy 
to iron beautiful rivers and

00:22:40.150 --> 00:22:40.820
lakes and

00:22:42.390 --> 00:22:46.270
outside of the northwest of course 
hero at the norms and trying to

00:22:46.330 --> 00:22:50.670
take on one proposal after another 
that comes down the pike.

00:22:50.670 --> 00:22:53.780
So rather than just playing whack-a-mole 
they which is sort of

00:22:53.880 --> 00:22:56.370
what a lot of groups have been doing it,

00:22:56.370 --> 00:23:00.590
you stop one project popped up 
an unemployed we've decided to

00:23:00.590 --> 00:23:06.140
declare a ban on all new fossil 
fuel infrastructure starting in

00:23:06.140 --> 00:23:10.610
Portland and then moving out to the 
rest of Oregon and the rest of

00:23:10.610 --> 00:23:15.930
the northwest and we should be getting 
a hearing over the coming

00:23:15.930 --> 00:23:21.800
year by city officials around this 
call we want no fossil fuel

00:23:21.920 --> 00:23:25.220
exports and no new fossil fuel 
infrastructure in the city.

00:23:25.220 --> 00:23:27.800
So that's our campaign and and 
I think we have a pretty good

00:23:27.860 --> 00:23:28.480
chance of winning.

00:23:29.170 --> 00:23:29.390
Yeah,

00:23:29.390 --> 00:23:30.830
it would be such a different story.

00:23:30.830 --> 00:23:34.620
If you're exporting solar panels 
in bulk or wind machines.

00:23:35.270 --> 00:23:36.010
Sure,

00:23:36.010 --> 00:23:36.340
yeah,

00:23:36.340 --> 00:23:39.850
I mean we would love to be doing 
something along those lines,

00:23:39.850 --> 00:23:44.530
and in fact that's that's the vision 
that Portland quite action

00:23:44.530 --> 00:23:48.990
plan today called for which is you 
know I get under way ahead of

00:23:48.990 --> 00:23:53.230
the curve trying to push for by 
Kabul and walkable cities could

00:23:53.370 --> 00:23:56.780
drastically reducing greenhouse 
gas emissions increasing public

00:23:56.890 --> 00:23:57.590
transit.

00:23:57.590 --> 00:23:59.740
So it just doesn't make sense.

00:23:59.740 --> 00:24:03.700
We found that the emissions from 
Justice Warren propane terminal

00:24:03.850 --> 00:24:08.750
alone over several decades would be 
larger than the entire city of

00:24:08.840 --> 00:24:11.920
Portland's emissions if if our missions 
were to continue to go

00:24:11.920 --> 00:24:12.350
down.

00:24:12.350 --> 00:24:16.640
So I just didn't make sense from 
a climate action perspective to

00:24:16.680 --> 00:24:18.940
be proceeding with this this terminal.

00:24:19.330 --> 00:24:19.580
Right.

00:24:19.580 --> 00:24:22.100
It's almost like changing your light 
bulbs at home but along a

00:24:22.100 --> 00:24:24.080
coal plant to be built next door.

00:24:24.080 --> 00:24:25.540
So as you know.

00:24:25.540 --> 00:24:28.470
Billionaire Warren Buffet is having 
a hard time finding a place to

00:24:28.500 --> 00:24:32.180
unload his call trains 
for shipping to China,

00:24:32.180 --> 00:24:36.120
what have you heard about new coal 
ports in the Pacific Northwest

00:24:36.120 --> 00:24:37.300
. Well,

00:24:37.300 --> 00:24:37.550
you know,

00:24:37.550 --> 00:24:41.710
there's been quite a few proposals 
all export terminals in the

00:24:41.710 --> 00:24:46.530
Pacific Northwest and almost all 
of them have been defeated.

00:24:46.530 --> 00:24:47.370
We have 2,

00:24:47.370 --> 00:24:49.910
there are still on the table,

00:24:49.910 --> 00:24:53.830
one in Long View Washington 
and one in Cherry Point:

00:24:53.830 --> 00:24:59.920
both are for over 40 million tons 
of coal exports per year they

00:24:59.920 --> 00:25:04.920
won in Cherry Point Washington is 
on Native American land on the

00:25:04.980 --> 00:25:06.530
only land and they are,

00:25:06.530 --> 00:25:11.870
they are fighting and waging a very 
serious battle against that

00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:15.620
call export terminal because they 
argue that it would violate

00:25:15.720 --> 00:25:20.430
their treaties and would affect 
their fisheries the other

00:25:20.430 --> 00:25:25.140
proposals that have been tabled 
by up and down the the Columbia

00:25:25.140 --> 00:25:27.680
River have have been withdrawn,

00:25:27.680 --> 00:25:31.400
essentially by the investors 
over the past 5 years,

00:25:31.400 --> 00:25:35.320
you may have to do with the fact that 
call increasingly has become

00:25:35.460 --> 00:25:37.580
less and less profitable,

00:25:37.580 --> 00:25:41.470
we also suspect it has something 
to do with the fact that these

00:25:41.550 --> 00:25:47.860
very same terminal began to look 
attractive for oil exports.

00:25:47.860 --> 00:25:52.030
Soon as we get rid of a of a coal 
terminal an oil terminal as

00:25:52.030 --> 00:25:52.790
proposed,

00:25:52.790 --> 00:25:56.860
in fact the largest oil terminal 
in the entire United States is

00:25:56.890 --> 00:26:00.630
being proposed right across the river 
from Portland in the event

00:26:00.690 --> 00:26:07.050
Koura Washington and that battle 
is now being wedged between on

00:26:07.050 --> 00:26:08.000
the one hand,

00:26:08.000 --> 00:26:12.770
there's any plan for a major development 
on the riverfront that a

00:26:12.770 --> 00:26:16.060
lot of people are very excited 
to see happen with you know

00:26:16.260 --> 00:26:20.090
condominiums and businesses ride 
along the river and should this

00:26:20.110 --> 00:26:24.630
oil terminal get built there that 
project will not go forward.

00:26:24.630 --> 00:26:29.380
So there's a lot of tension between 
those 2 different types of

00:26:29.480 --> 00:26:30.970
development that have being proposed.

00:26:30.970 --> 00:26:31.770
But you know,

00:26:31.770 --> 00:26:33.250
over and over again.

00:26:33.250 --> 00:26:34.210
These oil,

00:26:34.210 --> 00:26:39.430
gas and coal corporations are using 
very sneaky tactics they'll

00:26:39.430 --> 00:26:41.570
claim for example,

00:26:41.570 --> 00:26:45.960
one of the ways 30 oil company managed 
to get the Bakken crude

00:26:46.050 --> 00:26:49.520
managed to be exported along 
the Columbia River,

00:26:49.520 --> 00:26:51.360
they got me a port,

00:26:51.360 --> 00:26:55.500
claiming it was going to be used 
as a bio refinery the bio

00:26:55.630 --> 00:26:58.880
refinery went bankrupt and there 
and once they had already gotten

00:26:58.940 --> 00:27:02.340
the amended for the bio refinery 
they changed it to an oil

00:27:02.340 --> 00:27:05.840
terminal so there's all sorts 
of tricky schemes that these

00:27:05.950 --> 00:27:08.970
industries are using outright lies,

00:27:08.970 --> 00:27:10.290
claiming that they are,

00:27:10.290 --> 00:27:10.620
you know,

00:27:10.620 --> 00:27:13.950
for example in the case of the propane 
terminal they claimed it

00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:18.580
was going to be used for the women 
to cook with him in Asia,

00:27:18.580 --> 00:27:22.440
we found that in fact it was on the 
used to be making proclaiming

00:27:22.630 --> 00:27:26.240
and plastics and nothing to do with 
the alleviating the poverty

00:27:26.800 --> 00:27:28.640
were women in in Asia.

00:27:28.640 --> 00:27:31.760
So you know we have to be on our 
guard against these companies

00:27:31.790 --> 00:27:32.050
there,

00:27:32.050 --> 00:27:36.330
they're using every strategy they 
can Oregon apparently is number

00:27:36.330 --> 00:27:40.000
3 nationally as a target for Alex funds,

00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:44.270
that's one of the right wing anti-environmental 
and and climate

00:27:44.350 --> 00:27:48.410
denialist groups that's been pushing 
a a very strong legislative

00:27:48.410 --> 00:27:52.390
agenda in favor of big energy and 
they're going up oil you know.

00:27:52.390 --> 00:27:52.820
So we're,

00:27:52.820 --> 00:27:55.390
we're really fighting on all 
fronts here in the north.

00:27:56.420 --> 00:27:57.730
Now going ask you about that.

00:27:57.730 --> 00:28:00.900
I mean whenever big oil money 
comes into an area.

00:28:00.900 --> 00:28:03.370
There's a chance for corruption 
and certainly you can woo

00:28:03.370 --> 00:28:07.200
politicians with the ideas of more 
jobs and a better economy,

00:28:07.200 --> 00:28:11.860
and eventually I wonder is it even 
compatible with local democracy

00:28:12.030 --> 00:28:16.000
and and freedom to in your area to 
allow these companies to come

00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:18.240
in and start working the 
way you're describing.

00:28:19.120 --> 00:28:21.130
Well that's that's compared threat.

00:28:21.130 --> 00:28:25.080
I think that's that's looming for 
region is you know it's yet to

00:28:25.080 --> 00:28:29.570
potentially will change the and not 
just the political nature of

00:28:29.600 --> 00:28:30.350
this region,

00:28:30.350 --> 00:28:32.810
but you know the entire economy.

00:28:32.810 --> 00:28:36.900
It was shaped in a completely different 
direction when we start

00:28:36.900 --> 00:28:41.810
welcoming in trains and trains 
and terminals and refineries

00:28:42.590 --> 00:28:46.350
suddenly start looking a lot more 
like Texas than Oregon both

00:28:46.390 --> 00:28:49.760
politically and you know environmentally 
and that's certainly not

00:28:49.900 --> 00:28:52.430
what a lot of people moved 
to the Pacific Northwest.

00:28:52.430 --> 00:28:56.140
His experience and that the 
values of the northwest,

00:28:56.140 --> 00:29:00.300
but you know we have in addition 
to the the traditional political

00:29:00.300 --> 00:29:00.940
concerns.

00:29:00.940 --> 00:29:04.490
There's also of course the concerns 
that Native Americans have

00:29:04.490 --> 00:29:09.240
around preserving their trade is 
a concern has been without a

00:29:09.330 --> 00:29:13.940
court and try to get these treaties 
upheld for Native Americans is

00:29:13.970 --> 00:29:17.750
that in some cases if they lose 
their truly get weekend.

00:29:17.750 --> 00:29:21.890
So it's a great at great risk that 
they go to court and try to get

00:29:21.980 --> 00:29:26.250
these treaties upheld and that's 
another potential setback that

00:29:26.370 --> 00:29:27.630
unfortunately once again.

00:29:27.630 --> 00:29:30.720
Native Americans have an awful 
lot to lose in this battle.

00:29:31.510 --> 00:29:35.730
This is Radio Eco shark with Augusta 
long time Green radio host

00:29:35.830 --> 00:29:40.150
and activist Stephanie Weisz another 
big do you know Darfuris is

00:29:40.180 --> 00:29:43.520
to announce massive liquid 
natural gas terminals.

00:29:43.520 --> 00:29:45.720
We've got a government 
in British Columbia,

00:29:45.720 --> 00:29:49.360
the got elected promising all the 
jobs in the money and and you

00:29:49.360 --> 00:29:52.080
know our budget would be totally 
balanced once we get these LNG

00:29:52.160 --> 00:29:52.630
plants,

00:29:52.630 --> 00:29:53.970
which have not materialized.

00:29:53.970 --> 00:29:55.140
Incidentally,

00:29:55.140 --> 00:29:57.810
what about LNG in the Pacific Northwest.

00:29:58.450 --> 00:29:58.670
Well,

00:29:58.670 --> 00:30:02.550
that's another big battle that we're 
facing right now we've got 2

00:30:02.620 --> 00:30:07.530
major pipelines being proposed just 
for Oregon one in southern

00:30:07.530 --> 00:30:10.410
Oregon that they want to build its over$7

00:30:10.420 --> 00:30:15.390
billion pipeline that they want to 
build through the southern part

00:30:15.390 --> 00:30:20.690
of Oregon and then have the export 
terminal export LNG from coups

00:30:20.730 --> 00:30:24.920
they Oregon and another one in northern 
Oregon and Washington,

00:30:24.920 --> 00:30:29.470
Oregon and both of these 
projects would involved.

00:30:29.470 --> 00:30:30.280
Of course,

00:30:30.280 --> 00:30:35.250
massive equation land that a 
lot of it in private hands.

00:30:35.250 --> 00:30:38.310
And in many cases they are claiming,

00:30:38.310 --> 00:30:40.910
eminent domain.

00:30:40.910 --> 00:30:46.280
You know as an argument in favor 
of her example 10 about$25,000

00:30:46.610 --> 00:30:47.820
per acre,

00:30:47.820 --> 00:30:52.590
which is way below the market value 
due to land borders and the

00:30:52.590 --> 00:30:56.370
irony in this is that many of these 
LNG companies are actually

00:30:56.470 --> 00:30:59.570
foreign owned and they're 
claiming eminent domain,

00:30:59.570 --> 00:31:02.060
which is you know of course 
it's for export.

00:31:02.060 --> 00:31:05.770
So a lot of people that I was lifting 
these LNG terminals are

00:31:05.830 --> 00:31:06.060
saying,

00:31:06.060 --> 00:31:06.250
you know,

00:31:06.250 --> 00:31:06.710
how,

00:31:06.710 --> 00:31:11.790
how can he possibly be using a law 
that was created to develop

00:31:11.790 --> 00:31:16.510
infrastructure for people in the United 
States taking on land away

00:31:16.510 --> 00:31:21.120
from us in order to facilitate the 
profits of foreign corporations

00:31:21.280 --> 00:31:25.110
that are just bypassing all of our 
our legal structures in order

00:31:25.110 --> 00:31:29.300
to to build this pipeline and exported 
it to other countries.

00:31:29.300 --> 00:31:30.650
So there's a lot of resistance.

00:31:30.650 --> 00:31:31.350
But again,

00:31:31.350 --> 00:31:35.650
not with so much money on achieve 
all a lot of politicians are

00:31:36.160 --> 00:31:37.970
lining up to support this,

00:31:37.970 --> 00:31:42.520
and certainly our local paper 
The Oregonian seems to be

00:31:44.100 --> 00:31:47.440
completely in the pocket of the fossil 
fuel industry which written

00:31:47.440 --> 00:31:50.280
editorials saying that climate 
change is not a concern for

00:31:50.310 --> 00:31:54.680
Oregonian Gennaro regularly trumpeting 
all the benefits of these

00:31:54.720 --> 00:31:55.980
fossil fuel exports.

00:31:55.980 --> 00:31:57.780
So we're in a bit of a,

00:31:57.780 --> 00:31:58.190
you know,

00:31:58.190 --> 00:32:00.590
in a bit of a of a war 
here in the northwest.

00:32:00.590 --> 00:32:04.780
In terms of both keeping people 
informed about what's really

00:32:04.780 --> 00:32:08.870
happening and and taking you know 
holding our elected officials

00:32:08.980 --> 00:32:09.400
accountable.

00:32:10.330 --> 00:32:12.470
Does the state of Oregon allow fracas.

00:32:13.430 --> 00:32:20.270
Now it has not banned tracking 
this actually did come up this

00:32:20.270 --> 00:32:24.500
year and that there wasn't a bill 
that originally was going to ban

00:32:24.500 --> 00:32:28.630
for acting and then it sort of morphed 
into regulating tracking

00:32:28.860 --> 00:32:31.550
and that created a huge uproar where 
people said no we don't want

00:32:31.550 --> 00:32:32.120
to regulate it.

00:32:32.120 --> 00:32:35.500
We want ban it out outcry currently 
there as far as I know there's

00:32:35.630 --> 00:32:40.240
very little in the way of any sort 
of gas exploitable gas reserves

00:32:40.240 --> 00:32:43.620
anywhere in Oregon but I think he 
would have an awfully hard time

00:32:43.860 --> 00:32:44.820
for hacking in Oregon.

00:32:45.820 --> 00:32:47.180
Well that's good to hear now Daphne,

00:32:47.180 --> 00:32:51.270
I know you continue to keep track 
of US national policy as well.

00:32:51.270 --> 00:32:54.540
What do you make of President Obama 
taking you know he talks

00:32:54.610 --> 00:32:58.120
strongly about climate change and 
any approves exploration for

00:32:58.180 --> 00:33:01.560
more fossil fuels in the fragile 
Arctic by Shell Oil.

00:33:02.210 --> 00:33:04.090
You know you're getting as good as mine.

00:33:04.090 --> 00:33:09.090
Alex I'm I'm just mystified at 
you know how he can not take

00:33:09.560 --> 00:33:10.650
especially of late.

00:33:10.690 --> 00:33:12.400
In his last 2 years in office,

00:33:12.400 --> 00:33:16.330
where I think it's so much more freely 
disputed boldly about the

00:33:16.400 --> 00:33:19.820
climate crisis and seems to 
be taking an awful lot of

00:33:20.370 --> 00:33:22.370
opportunities to speak out on it.

00:33:22.370 --> 00:33:25.700
Why he would on the one hand take these,

00:33:25.700 --> 00:33:26.050
you know,

00:33:26.050 --> 00:33:29.770
take these actions do for example 
restrict coal-fired power plant

00:33:29.770 --> 00:33:34.120
emissions and and increase 
energy efficient,

00:33:34.120 --> 00:33:37.960
fuel-efficient automobiles and then 
at the same time allow for

00:33:37.960 --> 00:33:42.170
Arctic drilling and massive oil 
and gas chemical exports.

00:33:42.170 --> 00:33:46.130
I suppose it may have something 
to do with the fact that he was

00:33:46.210 --> 00:33:50.170
the number one recipient of BP's 
funds when he was running for

00:33:50.320 --> 00:33:51.550
office.

00:33:51.550 --> 00:33:56.200
I don't know if he's still feeling 
beholden to his donors.

00:33:56.200 --> 00:34:00.320
It's really hard to understand why 
he why he is acting only hears

00:34:00.320 --> 00:34:03.130
. And again on the international front.

00:34:03.130 --> 00:34:04.080
I was disappointed.

00:34:04.080 --> 00:34:05.750
The leaders of industrial countries,

00:34:05.750 --> 00:34:09.480
the G7 could only promise an end to 
carbon emissions by the end of

00:34:09.480 --> 00:34:11.400
this century 85 years away.

00:34:11.400 --> 00:34:14.410
That's way too late to avoid 
catastrophic climate change.

00:34:14.410 --> 00:34:15.150
What do you think.

00:34:15.870 --> 00:34:16.460
That's right,

00:34:16.460 --> 00:34:21.720
I mean we had a proposal that whereas 
the Germans and the G7 were

00:34:21.820 --> 00:34:27.150
trying to you get indeed curb innovation 
of all other G7 economies

00:34:27.480 --> 00:34:32.940
by 20-50 and the Canadians and 
the Japanese pushed back on

00:34:32.970 --> 00:34:34.590
urgently and said no,

00:34:34.590 --> 00:34:39.660
but we were sign on to do carbon 
the station by 2100 of course is

00:34:39.720 --> 00:34:41.100
a non-binding agreement.

00:34:41.100 --> 00:34:44.260
So even if it were 2050 it would be,

00:34:44.260 --> 00:34:49.890
wouldn't be all that that exciting 
but 2100 it is still far out

00:34:50.010 --> 00:34:53.930
you know past it the lifetime of 
any of these folks at the table

00:34:54.020 --> 00:34:56.920
and I'm sure they felt very comfortable 
making this agreement and

00:34:57.470 --> 00:34:59.150
kicking the can down the road.

00:34:59.150 --> 00:35:03.600
The Japanese apparently are very 
heavily invested you know coal

00:35:03.600 --> 00:35:07.560
fire power you know he's learned 
that explains their reluctance,

00:35:07.560 --> 00:35:12.920
do you see any decrease in their 
investments in coal and I I I

00:35:12.920 --> 00:35:16.780
suppose the Canadians do the tourist 
town are reluctant to see

00:35:17.380 --> 00:35:22.930
decolonization any trying to do but 
you seem to suggest in in our

00:35:22.980 --> 00:35:27.480
last conversation tar sands profits 
are plummeting as their own.

00:35:27.900 --> 00:35:28.690
That's true.

00:35:28.690 --> 00:35:31.760
It's just too expensive to 
produce the tar sands.

00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:33.180
You need at least$60

00:35:33.320 --> 00:35:34.370
to$70

00:35:34.460 --> 00:35:38.410
a barrel to do it and they're only 
getting about 40 to 45 they

00:35:38.410 --> 00:35:44.010
don't get world prices because the 
tires and requires so much work

00:35:44.010 --> 00:35:46.870
at the refinery to get a usable 
product that they get a lower

00:35:46.930 --> 00:35:47.250
price.

00:35:47.250 --> 00:35:49.940
So they're losing some money and it,

00:35:49.940 --> 00:35:54.100
what's happening is this massive layoffs 
in Alberta and I mean big

00:35:54.100 --> 00:35:59.050
big big layoffs and the financing 
for these companies is getting

00:35:59.100 --> 00:36:01.130
hard to get and their stocks,

00:36:01.130 --> 00:36:04.830
according to one of our 
guests went down 70%,

00:36:04.830 --> 00:36:07.300
so that's a big drop in their 
stock value as well.

00:36:08.060 --> 00:36:09.390
Interesting.

00:36:09.390 --> 00:36:09.550
Well,

00:36:09.550 --> 00:36:10.590
that may be.

00:36:10.590 --> 00:36:12.950
Let me explain why they're trying to do.

00:36:12.950 --> 00:36:19.260
Also some of the same companies 
cap into the acts Gaston and

00:36:19.620 --> 00:36:24.970
propane byproduct of that in the past 
have been treated as a waste

00:36:25.040 --> 00:36:25.420
gas,

00:36:25.420 --> 00:36:27.440
it's another revenue stream for them.

00:36:28.380 --> 00:36:31.360
You now do you expect much concrete 
to come out of the pair's

00:36:31.430 --> 00:36:32.790
climate talks later this year.

00:36:34.120 --> 00:36:37.490
Well I'm I'm always hopeful.

00:36:37.490 --> 00:36:37.650
Well,

00:36:37.650 --> 00:36:41.180
I I had that they haven't been 
I I went to the climate

00:36:41.180 --> 00:36:46.370
negotiations in Kyoto and I went 
to several others after that and

00:36:46.370 --> 00:36:48.420
I haven't been to the last few years,

00:36:48.420 --> 00:36:51.990
and I was just feeling very discouraged 
about all of the

00:36:52.200 --> 00:36:56.400
brinksmanship and which which is what 
you always see it with these

00:36:56.480 --> 00:37:00.670
conferences nobody shows their hand 
until long after midnight on

00:37:00.670 --> 00:37:04.340
the final made and finally everybody's 
scrambling on very little

00:37:04.340 --> 00:37:06.710
sleep to come up with an agreement.

00:37:06.710 --> 00:37:10.890
It just seemed like you know I dream 
of of chess with the planets

00:37:10.890 --> 00:37:13.940
. The fate of the planet at 
stake over and over again.

00:37:13.940 --> 00:37:16.380
I got I kind of very tiresome.

00:37:16.380 --> 00:37:17.800
This time,

00:37:17.800 --> 00:37:21.550
you know we do how China coming 
to the table with an agreement

00:37:21.910 --> 00:37:27.780
with the United States that does seem 
to have potentially at least

00:37:27.870 --> 00:37:32.450
broken a logjam between the developing 
countries and that the

00:37:32.470 --> 00:37:35.850
wealthy countries that we saw over 
and over again played out its

00:37:35.950 --> 00:37:36.930
climate negotiations.

00:37:36.930 --> 00:37:40.690
So it seems that the dynamics 
could be different enough to

00:37:41.000 --> 00:37:45.370
potentially a shift things moving forward.

00:37:45.370 --> 00:37:49.850
But whether we'll see the kind of 
truly dramatic commitments that

00:37:49.950 --> 00:37:52.530
are needed to stabilize the 
climate earning trying to,

00:37:52.530 --> 00:37:52.890
you know,

00:37:52.890 --> 00:37:57.230
I'm not that hopeful but I I I do 
think to think well at least

00:37:57.280 --> 00:37:58.810
begin to shift at this next Senate.

00:37:58.900 --> 00:37:59.280
Fox.

00:37:59.750 --> 00:38:00.080
You know.

00:38:00.130 --> 00:38:03.050
Now America has elections 
coming up eventually,

00:38:03.050 --> 00:38:06.010
do you expect the same rogues 
gallery of Republican climate

00:38:06.130 --> 00:38:09.080
deniers to be elected again in Congress.

00:38:09.940 --> 00:38:16.020
I think the Republicans have a very 
slim chances of gaining the

00:38:16.020 --> 00:38:16.650
presidency.

00:38:16.650 --> 00:38:20.730
I think that they have a higher likelihood 
of retaining control of

00:38:20.730 --> 00:38:23.840
the south and in the house when 
you have somebody like Hillary

00:38:23.840 --> 00:38:24.970
Clinton running for office.

00:38:24.970 --> 00:38:30.540
I think you know just given her 
stature nationally and and

00:38:30.630 --> 00:38:31.380
globally.

00:38:31.380 --> 00:38:34.930
She probably stand a greater 
chance than any of the other

00:38:35.140 --> 00:38:38.040
candidates they're running but a 
lot can happen between now and

00:38:38.040 --> 00:38:41.600
20-16 that's my prediction 
at this point in time,

00:38:41.600 --> 00:38:46.350
oil processing Bernie Sanders surprisingly 
gaining on Hillary

00:38:46.350 --> 00:38:46.970
Clinton.

00:38:46.970 --> 00:38:49.990
He is an independent and a 
self-proclaimed socialist.

00:38:49.990 --> 00:38:53.270
So that's a huge surprise 
for the United States.

00:38:53.270 --> 00:38:54.500
I think what it suggests,

00:38:54.500 --> 00:38:59.130
is that people have had enough of 
either candidate really avoiding

00:38:59.170 --> 00:39:03.120
the issue of income inequality and 
Bernie standard but there is

00:39:03.160 --> 00:39:06.550
taking on the corporations in the 
banks like no other candidate is

00:39:06.550 --> 00:39:07.050
right now.

00:39:07.700 --> 00:39:10.730
You know I remember after the financial 
crash that Bernie Sanders

00:39:10.940 --> 00:39:14.440
actually came out and described 
who runs America and it was

00:39:14.600 --> 00:39:17.660
revealing he talked for hours and 
hours and hours on the record.

00:39:17.660 --> 00:39:19.640
It was great stuff.

00:39:19.640 --> 00:39:20.150
Well,

00:39:20.150 --> 00:39:22.020
I see that scientists say.

00:39:22.020 --> 00:39:24.770
Climate change will look very different 
from region to region,

00:39:24.770 --> 00:39:27.930
and we saw that again this year 
in North America with a hot

00:39:28.040 --> 00:39:32.390
exceptionally dry western a cool 
snow rainy east is it a big

00:39:32.490 --> 00:39:36.910
problem that citizens experience climate 
change so locally and yet

00:39:36.910 --> 00:39:39.650
the problem demands a global solution.

00:39:40.290 --> 00:39:40.880
Well,

00:39:40.880 --> 00:39:43.330
I mean in terms of the 
deserving Northwest,

00:39:43.330 --> 00:39:47.480
one of the things that we are preparing 
for a which is a little

00:39:47.480 --> 00:39:48.610
bit alarming is there.

00:39:48.610 --> 00:39:52.700
Niger influx of climate refugees 
to the northwest,

00:39:52.700 --> 00:39:55.400
city officials tell us that they're 
expecting you know the

00:39:55.520 --> 00:39:58.300
population in Portland for example 
to increased by several hundred

00:39:58.360 --> 00:40:00.230
thousand in the coming decades.

00:40:00.230 --> 00:40:05.710
So I think you know Californian 
dried up and continues to drag.

00:40:05.710 --> 00:40:09.420
We probably will see quite a 
few people moving north from

00:40:09.420 --> 00:40:12.040
California wetter climates.

00:40:12.040 --> 00:40:18.150
Is it problematic how climate change 
out with regard to I I don't

00:40:18.150 --> 00:40:20.900
fully understand what what what what 
you mean by that question can

00:40:20.900 --> 00:40:21.370
be retrained.

00:40:22.190 --> 00:40:22.920
Well,

00:40:22.920 --> 00:40:25.880
it's just that you know the old 
story about the elephant people

00:40:25.880 --> 00:40:26.290
come up.

00:40:26.290 --> 00:40:29.100
The elephant in one pulls the tail 
on says that's what an elf.

00:40:29.100 --> 00:40:31.920
It looks like the other one grabs 
a new year and says that's what

00:40:31.920 --> 00:40:34.620
the often looks like climate 
change is kind of like that,

00:40:34.620 --> 00:40:38.560
you know you have people who see 
and experiencing so differently

00:40:38.690 --> 00:40:42.450
right around them and yet they're 
supposed to all unite somehow

00:40:42.670 --> 00:40:45.470
and demand an overall great big solution.

00:40:46.470 --> 00:40:46.770
Well,

00:40:46.770 --> 00:40:51.000
I mean I think that polls suggest 
that a majority of Americans do

00:40:51.290 --> 00:40:53.550
think that the climate crisis.

00:40:53.550 --> 00:40:57.570
The areas it's happening and they 
want to see action taken on it,

00:40:57.570 --> 00:40:59.770
regardless of how it manifests 
in their region.

00:40:59.770 --> 00:41:03.030
I think people are increasingly 
alarmed and are increasingly

00:41:03.190 --> 00:41:06.130
wanting to see elected 
official take action.

00:41:06.130 --> 00:41:09.570
Unfortunately our elected officials 
there you know largely

00:41:09.850 --> 00:41:12.260
following the money and most of 
the money is with the club

00:41:12.360 --> 00:41:16.020
brothers and the other oil companies 
so they're listening to them

00:41:16.070 --> 00:41:20.260
and not to that the American people 
but at least at the moment you

00:41:20.260 --> 00:41:23.630
know this is one reason why we need 
better campaign finance laws

00:41:23.690 --> 00:41:24.420
in this country.

00:41:24.420 --> 00:41:28.540
But I think what we come to the conclusion 
here at the Center for

00:41:28.540 --> 00:41:32.150
a sustainable economy is that working 
at the city level working at

00:41:32.170 --> 00:41:32.830
the state level,

00:41:32.830 --> 00:41:35.810
you can get a lot more done than 
you can trying to work in

00:41:35.890 --> 00:41:38.540
Washington DC things are very 
broken and Washington,

00:41:38.540 --> 00:41:41.210
but you can actually affect 
policy at the state level,

00:41:41.210 --> 00:41:44.290
and eventually hopefully 
MPs that into some sort.

00:41:44.440 --> 00:41:45.360
National strategy.

00:41:45.820 --> 00:41:45.970
Yeah.

00:41:46.100 --> 00:41:47.110
That's a great point,

00:41:47.110 --> 00:41:50.400
are you getting re-energized by 
regional activism on the west

00:41:50.470 --> 00:41:54.400
coast versus the politics of living 
and working in Washington DC.

00:41:54.770 --> 00:41:55.770
Oh yes,

00:41:55.770 --> 00:41:57.020
yes.

00:41:57.020 --> 00:42:01.020
You know and a hit lots and lots 
of exclamation points after that

00:42:01.530 --> 00:42:06.380
statement I I'm so inspired by and 
many of the young people that

00:42:06.380 --> 00:42:10.370
retirees so level of engagement here 
in the northwest around the

00:42:10.370 --> 00:42:14.730
issue of climate change is so 
broad and persons here and so

00:42:14.930 --> 00:42:16.050
energized.

00:42:16.050 --> 00:42:20.720
It's really inspiring to see a lot 
of people hurt you know just

00:42:20.970 --> 00:42:25.720
put their careers completely on 
hold and are doing nothing but

00:42:25.820 --> 00:42:27.600
working on this climate crisis,

00:42:27.600 --> 00:42:28.230
one of the people.

00:42:28.230 --> 00:42:31.790
That's leading local 350 chapter 
here in Portland.

00:42:31.790 --> 00:42:35.570
It's the former Andy who 
just decided this was,

00:42:35.570 --> 00:42:38.890
this is where she needed to 
spend her time and energy.

00:42:38.890 --> 00:42:41.780
I know a lot of people that have 
dealt with either early

00:42:41.780 --> 00:42:46.640
retirement or living very frugally 
so that they can devote a

00:42:46.670 --> 00:42:50.500
significant amount of time to working 
on the the fighting at the

00:42:50.500 --> 00:42:52.650
fossil fuel industry here in Oregon.

00:42:52.650 --> 00:42:53.640
So it's,

00:42:53.640 --> 00:42:57.960
it's both inspiring encourages me 
to work even harder whereas back

00:42:57.960 --> 00:42:58.510
in Washington,

00:42:58.510 --> 00:42:59.150
DC.

00:42:59.150 --> 00:43:03.080
We just feel that no matter how much 
you through your head against

00:43:03.140 --> 00:43:05.860
that that wall you just keeps Nash.

00:43:05.860 --> 00:43:09.910
You know how to go through expense 
and it wasn't going to budge.

00:43:09.910 --> 00:43:12.030
But things do actually 
get done it Thursday.

00:43:13.250 --> 00:43:16.860
I wonder if there's a story or experience 
beyond that you think

00:43:16.890 --> 00:43:20.290
could help raise our listeners 
to an even greater move into

00:43:20.350 --> 00:43:21.520
climate activism.

00:43:22.680 --> 00:43:23.030
Well,

00:43:23.030 --> 00:43:27.470
I mean I think the climate crisis 
you you know you've covered it

00:43:27.500 --> 00:43:28.110
so well,

00:43:28.110 --> 00:43:31.730
especially in your recent shows 
with climate psychologists and

00:43:31.850 --> 00:43:37.360
others talking about the ways in 
which we turn away from just how

00:43:37.460 --> 00:43:38.960
serious it is,

00:43:38.960 --> 00:43:40.910
it cannot have that result,

00:43:40.910 --> 00:43:45.490
but it can also when you are working 
in coalition with others I

00:43:45.520 --> 00:43:49.350
what I found is that the people 
that end up coming out to join

00:43:49.380 --> 00:43:52.720
this coalitions are some of the 
best members of our society and

00:43:52.830 --> 00:43:56.150
mean you know just smart committed,

00:43:56.150 --> 00:43:56.900
funny,

00:43:56.900 --> 00:43:58.100
creative,

00:43:58.100 --> 00:44:01.690
and these are the kinds of people 
that I would want to have.

00:44:01.690 --> 00:44:04.110
By my side fighting any kind of battle.

00:44:04.110 --> 00:44:08.480
So I encourage people that are in 
any way feeling defeated by this

00:44:08.660 --> 00:44:13.710
crisis turn that sort of intention 
to mourn into an into an

00:44:13.760 --> 00:44:18.120
organizing intention and to really 
stick out like-minded folks

00:44:18.230 --> 00:44:22.060
because they will energize you and 
keep you going in the darkest

00:44:22.060 --> 00:44:26.700
hours and a lot of us are 
feeling the grief around.

00:44:26.700 --> 00:44:28.700
I know I felt it for quite some time,

00:44:28.700 --> 00:44:29.930
but there is,

00:44:29.930 --> 00:44:34.630
there are signs that people are really 
beginning to get it and I

00:44:34.700 --> 00:44:39.020
really getting mobilized for example 
and working with the National

00:44:39.430 --> 00:44:42.750
Unitarian General Assembly that's 
gathering in Portland and 6,000

00:44:43.040 --> 00:44:46.390
members of the Unitarian coming 
from all over the United States

00:44:46.410 --> 00:44:49.970
and they'll be focused exclusively 
on those climate change and

00:44:49.970 --> 00:44:53.760
also how best to work in solidarity 
with native Americans in

00:44:53.850 --> 00:44:55.630
facing down this crisis.

00:44:55.630 --> 00:44:57.060
It's very exciting.

00:44:57.060 --> 00:45:01.650
It feels like we are going to go 
back to our home communities and

00:45:01.690 --> 00:45:03.660
really commit to respond.

00:45:03.660 --> 00:45:06.810
In fact there is a website commit 
to respond and people were going

00:45:06.810 --> 00:45:10.460
to be asked to do something along 
the same lines of what your last

00:45:10.490 --> 00:45:14.800
guest asked us to do which is to 
mobilize towards a World War 2

00:45:14.830 --> 00:45:18.720
type mobilization to save you know 
I think a lot of us recognize

00:45:18.720 --> 00:45:22.790
if that's what's required to swim 
time and we need all of us to be

00:45:22.870 --> 00:45:26.440
calling for the same thing both for 
our economy and for our planet

00:45:26.610 --> 00:45:29.050
if were gonna stop this monster in time.

00:45:29.580 --> 00:45:29.760
Here.

00:45:29.850 --> 00:45:34.410
Our guest Washington hosted the environmental 
program for 8 years

00:45:34.410 --> 00:45:38.380
on the Pacifica Radio network now 
she's bounced between regional

00:45:38.500 --> 00:45:42.550
activism on the West Coast continuing 
watch over national and

00:45:42.580 --> 00:45:44.740
international climate developments.

00:45:44.740 --> 00:45:48.080
She is the director of climate 
and the energy program at the

00:45:48.080 --> 00:45:52.370
Center for sustainable economy definitely 
where the best places to

00:45:52.370 --> 00:45:54.240
follow your ongoing work.

00:45:54.820 --> 00:45:59.620
Sustainable dash economy of our 
website and we are getting on

00:45:59.930 --> 00:46:01.680
climate and energy program up and running.

00:46:01.680 --> 00:46:05.580
There were very excited about a new 
initiative that you can see an

00:46:05.580 --> 00:46:08.870
update on shortly called climate response.

00:46:08.870 --> 00:46:12.600
We have a preliminary paper up there 
and we'll be posting a lot of

00:46:12.620 --> 00:46:18.170
our activity on Algerian and other 
oil and gas and coal exports in

00:46:18.170 --> 00:46:19.320
the Pacific Northwest,

00:46:19.320 --> 00:46:21.710
we've hired a new political director.

00:46:21.710 --> 00:46:23.760
You can join our activist network there,

00:46:23.760 --> 00:46:28.200
and we were poured engaging with anyone 
who wants to preserve what

00:46:28.200 --> 00:46:31.420
we call that in green line here 
in the Pacific Northwest them

00:46:31.560 --> 00:46:33.350
these massive fossil fuel.

00:46:33.610 --> 00:46:33.870
Well,

00:46:33.870 --> 00:46:34.280
from going.

00:46:35.020 --> 00:46:35.350
Great.

00:46:35.350 --> 00:46:39.100
So listeners just Google center 
for sustainable economy or look

00:46:39.100 --> 00:46:42.400
for links in my blog at could 
shock.info Daphne.

00:46:42.400 --> 00:46:44.160
Thank you so much for joining us again,

00:46:44.160 --> 00:46:46.400
please keep in touch as you 
develop more stories.

00:46:46.860 --> 00:46:47.800
Thank you.

00:46:47.800 --> 00:46:51.970
And one last thing it it really 
as websites seemed odd or will

00:46:51.970 --> 00:46:55.100
take you right to absolutely 
and I do I will treat you,

00:46:55.100 --> 00:46:55.260
right.

00:46:55.590 --> 00:46:56.900
Activist network page.

00:46:57.150 --> 00:47:01.730
Beautiful scene.org I'm Alex Smith 
reporting for Radio Eco shark.

00:47:04.650 --> 00:47:08.940
This is Radio Eco shot made up your 
iPod or computer with tons of

00:47:08.970 --> 00:47:14.420
free green audio from our website 
at W W W.eco shock.org that's

00:47:14.520 --> 00:47:17.490
easy oil shock like electric shock.org.

00:47:22.320 --> 00:47:23.980
In the short time we have left.

00:47:23.980 --> 00:47:27.270
I'd like to pass on some quotes 
and notes from a deep and

00:47:27.270 --> 00:47:31.270
important talk from climate week 
at Harvard University Center for

00:47:31.270 --> 00:47:32.350
the environment,

00:47:32.350 --> 00:47:33.030
the speakers.

00:47:33.030 --> 00:47:37.240
Dr. James Anderson and the title 
is coupled feedback in the

00:47:37.240 --> 00:47:42.390
climate structure that set the timescale 
for irreversible change

00:47:42.840 --> 00:47:46.230
Arctic isotopes to stratospheric radicals.

00:47:46.230 --> 00:47:49.860
That's quite a bit and believe me 
he covers a lot this talk on

00:47:49.860 --> 00:47:54.400
April 8th 20-15 was part of a series 
of presentations I found this

00:47:54.400 --> 00:47:55.380
on video.

00:47:55.380 --> 00:47:59.080
Thanks to a tip from a radio equal 
shock listener and I'm so glad

00:47:59.080 --> 00:48:00.280
I did.

00:48:00.280 --> 00:48:02.040
The talk as Anderson tells us,

00:48:02.040 --> 00:48:03.540
is a fairly high level.

00:48:03.540 --> 00:48:06.510
A presentation of ongoing research 
into some important

00:48:06.510 --> 00:48:10.180
developments in the climate Anderson 
covers a wide range of

00:48:10.180 --> 00:48:11.040
science.

00:48:11.040 --> 00:48:13.610
I can only get to a few points here,

00:48:13.610 --> 00:48:14.270
for example,

00:48:14.270 --> 00:48:18.350
research into past ages showed the 
stratosphere that upper level

00:48:18.350 --> 00:48:22.360
of Earth's atmosphere above the weather 
was far wetter than today

00:48:22.360 --> 00:48:24.680
, in past greenhouse ages.

00:48:24.680 --> 00:48:28.450
The wording of the stratosphere should 
be happening now but until

00:48:28.590 --> 00:48:31.350
very recently nobody knew 
how that could happen.

00:48:31.350 --> 00:48:35.610
Now we do Anderson also points out 
a key difference between past

00:48:35.720 --> 00:48:38.610
hothouse world and today this time around.

00:48:38.610 --> 00:48:42.890
Humans have also injected chlorinated 
substances like ozone

00:48:43.070 --> 00:48:47.160
destroying CFCs there were never 
there in the past ages and how

00:48:47.160 --> 00:48:51.460
does that affect climate change as 
we'll hear from those opening

00:48:51.460 --> 00:48:55.180
quote scientists are gaining new 
knowledge on changes we've made

00:48:55.500 --> 00:48:56.790
that cannot be reversed,

00:48:56.790 --> 00:49:00.910
at least not in any timescale that 
matters to humans here is Dr.

00:49:00.910 --> 00:49:02.420
Anderson speaking at Harvard.

00:49:03.180 --> 00:49:08.450
This is really research talk about 
2 aspects of the climate

00:49:08.450 --> 00:49:09.860
structure,

00:49:09.860 --> 00:49:14.890
both of which are coupled through 
irreversible connective cycles

00:49:15.220 --> 00:49:20.100
and so I'm gonna talk about experiments 
done 5 meters above the

00:49:20.100 --> 00:49:24.770
surface and then experiments done 
20 kilometers above the surface

00:49:24.830 --> 00:49:27.320
and you'll see why those are linked,

00:49:27.320 --> 00:49:31.540
but just in case I basketball 
over these things I want to

00:49:31.670 --> 00:49:33.900
emphasize some points.

00:49:33.900 --> 00:49:37.450
The first one is that this global 
climate structure is changing

00:49:37.450 --> 00:49:42.280
far more rapidly than than we believe 
was possible even even 5

00:49:42.280 --> 00:49:46.720
years ago and I'm gonna show some 
dominant examples of that the

00:49:46.720 --> 00:49:50.820
next issue is the feedback in the 
climate structure because it

00:49:50.820 --> 00:49:55.700
seeks feedback sits set the timescale 
for a reverse ability and

00:49:55.840 --> 00:49:58.980
I'm gonna take a very brief tour 
through the climate system to

00:49:58.980 --> 00:50:02.040
demonstrate how that functions now:

00:50:02.040 --> 00:50:05.670
a look at the way in which developing 
technology provides direct

00:50:05.730 --> 00:50:09.580
measurements for example of methane 
and carbon di-oxide ITA topic

00:50:10.120 --> 00:50:10.900
Fox measurement.

00:50:11.910 --> 00:50:15.910
Next we'll hear about how the fragile 
Arctic determined so much of

00:50:15.910 --> 00:50:16.550
our weather.

00:50:17.470 --> 00:50:22.600
Then I'm going to look at why these 
Cryer systems which are so

00:50:22.720 --> 00:50:27.880
delicate because heat of fusion 
for waters so small that the

00:50:27.880 --> 00:50:34.270
delicacy of of these Cryer systems 
in a cruel irony link into the

00:50:34.270 --> 00:50:39.770
larger global climate structure 
and they exhibit inordinate

00:50:39.770 --> 00:50:43.760
control over these global climate 
systems I'm I'm gonna touch very

00:50:43.760 --> 00:50:48.130
briefly on this pale your record 
and as Brian talked about on on

00:50:48.130 --> 00:50:54.250
Tuesday that the climate structure 
depends in in large measure on

00:50:54.250 --> 00:50:58.620
the temperature gradient between 
the tropics in the polar regions

00:50:58.620 --> 00:51:01.400
and during the EEOC,

00:51:01.400 --> 00:51:04.200
there was a very little temperature 
difference between the tropics

00:51:04.200 --> 00:51:09.470
and and and the polar regions and 
in that particular structure of

00:51:09.470 --> 00:51:11.630
the stratosphere had to be wet.

00:51:11.630 --> 00:51:12.440
There's very little

00:51:13.970 --> 00:51:14.380
and fact.

00:51:14.380 --> 00:51:14.840
I don't know,

00:51:14.840 --> 00:51:15.160
Brian,

00:51:15.160 --> 00:51:17.830
I don't think there's any possibility 
of having that claim a

00:51:17.830 --> 00:51:20.710
structure without a Maurice stratosphere.

00:51:20.710 --> 00:51:24.300
And as we'll see moisture entering 
the stratosphere today has a

00:51:24.300 --> 00:51:27.240
very different connotation because 
it triggers catalytic cycles

00:51:27.240 --> 00:51:30.010
involving chlorine in Bromley in 
that were not present during the

00:51:30.030 --> 00:51:35.330
EEOC so also talk about you active 
of injection north of the

00:51:35.470 --> 00:51:36.450
subtropical jet,

00:51:36.450 --> 00:51:41.220
which as we saw from from Bryant brands 
talk is of a potential way

00:51:41.220 --> 00:51:45.080
of transitioning from the current 
structure of the climate to one

00:51:45.080 --> 00:51:49.450
in which there is a far smaller difference 
between in temperature

00:51:49.510 --> 00:51:51.630
between the equator in the polar regions,

00:51:51.630 --> 00:51:55.180
so is convicted injection of water,

00:51:55.180 --> 00:52:00.440
it turned out to be unique over 
the US and it's coupled also to

00:52:00.860 --> 00:52:04.810
any cyclonic flow over the US that 
that's created by the North

00:52:04.810 --> 00:52:06.050
American monsoon.

00:52:06.050 --> 00:52:10.460
And so we have this convicted injection 
into this anti cyclonic

00:52:10.460 --> 00:52:11.800
motion,

00:52:11.800 --> 00:52:17.190
which is a hoot demonic combination 
created by the dynamics.

00:52:17.190 --> 00:52:21.930
But it has very strong good coupling 
into the catalytic chemical

00:52:22.220 --> 00:52:23.480
structure of the stratosphere.

00:52:24.260 --> 00:52:27.530
Note how Anderson stressed the point 
made again and again by our

00:52:27.580 --> 00:52:31.190
guest scientist Paul Beckwith when 
explaining the new disruption

00:52:31.190 --> 00:52:34.510
of weather in the northern hemisphere 
and that's the temperature

00:52:34.600 --> 00:52:38.400
difference between the tropics in 
the polls as polar regions warm

00:52:38.400 --> 00:52:41.540
up the difference is declining and 
the result is a slower and wave

00:52:41.590 --> 00:52:45.390
your jet stream and some really strange 
weather for all of us in

00:52:45.410 --> 00:52:48.190
the northern world as a side note,

00:52:48.190 --> 00:52:51.370
Anderson explains why both the 
left and the right may support

00:52:51.560 --> 00:52:55.890
further research into controversial 
geo engineering first he

00:52:55.890 --> 00:52:58.860
refers to the National Research 
Council report on climate

00:52:58.860 --> 00:53:02.360
engineering particularly solar 
radiation management.

00:53:02.550 --> 00:53:06.730
The National Research Council 
just released a new report on

00:53:06.730 --> 00:53:10.400
climate engineering particularly 
solar radiation management that

00:53:11.250 --> 00:53:15.980
is being pushed actually in a bipartisan 
way because the right

00:53:16.040 --> 00:53:21.370
would like to have solar radiation 
management so more fossil fuels

00:53:21.400 --> 00:53:26.350
can be burned and the left believes 
that intruding in natural

00:53:26.350 --> 00:53:31.070
systems like this is a very dangerous 
so research on the topic is

00:53:31.100 --> 00:53:34.300
gaining bilateral support,

00:53:34.300 --> 00:53:36.050
which is highly unusual these days.

00:53:36.800 --> 00:53:38.800
Next we hear why James Anderson,

00:53:38.800 --> 00:53:43.520
thinks global warming is so horribly 
wrong as a term to describe

00:53:43.540 --> 00:53:44.950
the current climate shift.

00:53:45.550 --> 00:53:45.830
All right,

00:53:45.830 --> 00:53:50.590
so let me start with with a bias 
this this term global warming

00:53:50.690 --> 00:53:53.040
applied to this problem.

00:53:53.040 --> 00:53:57.200
It makes me shudder because 70% 
of the globe is covered by the

00:53:57.200 --> 00:53:57.590
ocean,

00:53:57.590 --> 00:53:59.780
with an average depth of 3500 meters,

00:53:59.780 --> 00:54:02.460
and it has massive heat capacity,

00:54:02.460 --> 00:54:06.400
so my mind most degenerate variable 
you can discusses mean global

00:54:06.680 --> 00:54:10.540
temperature and it also carries a 
connotation of something that's

00:54:10.540 --> 00:54:14.790
happening slow leak you know one 
degree centigrade per century

00:54:15.110 --> 00:54:19.540
doesn't carry a huge amount of political 
imperative behind it.

00:54:19.540 --> 00:54:22.530
It also carries the connotation 
that you can watch think slowly

00:54:22.530 --> 00:54:23.720
change and if you don't like,

00:54:23.720 --> 00:54:28.630
if you can just slow down the release 
of carbon dioxide and return

00:54:28.630 --> 00:54:32.270
to the condition and nothing could 
be further from the truth is,

00:54:32.270 --> 00:54:32.800
as we'll see.

00:54:32.800 --> 00:54:37.460
So I always avoid the term and 
I cringe every time I hear it.

00:54:38.140 --> 00:54:40.980
We'll never have time to get to all 
the great science in the stock

00:54:40.980 --> 00:54:42.610
. But I do want you to hear this.

00:54:43.270 --> 00:54:46.500
The next point involves these methane 
clatter it's either of these

00:54:46.540 --> 00:54:52.490
beautiful structures ice cages within 
which nature inserts methane

00:54:52.490 --> 00:54:58.320
produced anaerobic by decomposition 
of organic material and in its

00:54:58.320 --> 00:55:02.430
and it's chirpy that's driving this 
entirely because it nature of

00:55:02.490 --> 00:55:06.490
course abhors a vacuum and with stuff 
molecules and every possible

00:55:06.520 --> 00:55:12.960
nook and cranny in order to 
engage the inclusion of

00:55:13.680 --> 00:55:17.640
energy states and it turns out that 
methane 5th beautifully into

00:55:17.680 --> 00:55:23.560
these water cages and this is ubiquitous 
Klatten nothing rates

00:55:23.560 --> 00:55:28.060
contain about 3 times the chemical 
energy of all known fossil fuel

00:55:28.320 --> 00:55:30.240
reserves include coal,

00:55:30.240 --> 00:55:34.860
petroleum natural gas and they 
reside not only in the surface

00:55:34.960 --> 00:55:37.090
soils of Siberia northern Alaska but also

00:55:38.620 --> 00:55:42.200
they're ubiquitous across the ocean 
basins this was pulled up off

00:55:42.240 --> 00:55:46.960
the west coast of about 100m than 
it is touch of magic to it and

00:55:46.960 --> 00:55:51.780
it it ignites but the numbers as Steve,

00:55:51.780 --> 00:55:53.420
what's the point pointed out,

00:55:53.420 --> 00:55:55.290
are actually quite concerning.

00:55:55.290 --> 00:56:00.600
So here we plot the CO2 emissions 
from fossil-fuel burning in gig

00:56:00.660 --> 00:56:05.770
tons of carbon per year yet to convert 
back from CO2 but canonical

00:56:05.950 --> 00:56:10.320
representation is and in carbon 
per vehicle because of that's

00:56:10.390 --> 00:56:16.310
typically how calibrated so 1990 have 
about 6 again get tons of of

00:56:16.450 --> 00:56:20.080
carbon was added to the atmosphere 
by fossil-fuel burning,

00:56:20.080 --> 00:56:24.770
and that was basically a textbook 
number for for many many years,

00:56:24.770 --> 00:56:26.080
but in 2000,

00:56:26.080 --> 00:56:33.010
it started to take off and when 
the 2007 IPCC report came out.

00:56:33.010 --> 00:56:34.740
These were the release than area.

00:56:34.740 --> 00:56:38.240
This was the worst possible 
cases up a red wine,

00:56:38.240 --> 00:56:38.700
and of course,

00:56:38.700 --> 00:56:42.150
we've exceeded that of every year.

00:56:42.150 --> 00:56:46.640
The subsequent to to 2007 but the 
key point is that just half a

00:56:46.650 --> 00:56:50.310
percent of the labor while carbon 
in the Earth's surface soils,

00:56:50.310 --> 00:56:55.540
of the North Slope of of Alaska 
and Siberia just half a percent

00:56:55.610 --> 00:56:59.440
release rate per year gives 
us around 89 tons per year,

00:56:59.440 --> 00:57:02.860
which doubles the carbon added 
to the atmosphere by all

00:57:03.240 --> 00:57:05.560
fossil-fuel burning worldwide.

00:57:05.560 --> 00:57:10.440
And so this constitutes for the 
next exhibit for feedback.

00:57:10.700 --> 00:57:13.730
Anderson gives the example of a 
class 3 pulled up off the west

00:57:13.790 --> 00:57:16.410
coast from a depth of about 100 meters,

00:57:16.410 --> 00:57:19.190
that could be ignited with old match.

00:57:19.190 --> 00:57:19.470
Well,

00:57:19.470 --> 00:57:22.830
we didn't get to the strange way 
chlorinated substances playback

00:57:22.830 --> 00:57:26.540
on other climate feedback in the 
atmosphere plus and this is a

00:57:26.540 --> 00:57:27.630
spoiler alert.

00:57:27.630 --> 00:57:31.110
Scientists have discovered a way 
the stratosphere can become

00:57:31.110 --> 00:57:35.650
wetter as it did in past greenhouse 
worlds many many hours flying

00:57:35.650 --> 00:57:38.960
around the world found the stratosphere 
has the same low amount of

00:57:38.960 --> 00:57:40.440
water vapor.

00:57:40.440 --> 00:57:42.290
But in a kink in the system.

00:57:42.290 --> 00:57:45.900
A collision of weather factors over 
the continental United States

00:57:46.240 --> 00:57:50.430
creates an almost unique kind of heat 
funnel that does inject more

00:57:50.430 --> 00:57:52.460
water into the stratosphere.

00:57:52.460 --> 00:57:56.410
There are several other sites like 
that Anderson says they have

00:57:56.410 --> 00:58:00.370
the mechanism that will wet down 
the stratosphere over time,

00:58:00.370 --> 00:58:03.800
as I say there's a huge range of 
cutting science in the stock by

00:58:03.800 --> 00:58:04.950
James Anderson.

00:58:04.950 --> 00:58:08.400
Some of it is a little difficult 
for the lay person to understand

00:58:08.400 --> 00:58:10.650
, but most of it is very clear.

00:58:10.650 --> 00:58:13.720
We learn of feedback switch make 
this developing climate shift

00:58:14.180 --> 00:58:18.060
into a major geological event 
that cannot be reversed.

00:58:18.060 --> 00:58:21.790
We have already gone over the climate 
cliff he tells us how far we

00:58:21.930 --> 00:58:25.590
fall depends on whether we can rein 
in our fossil-fuel burning

00:58:25.700 --> 00:58:29.970
emissions before they trigger much 
much larger carbon or methane

00:58:29.970 --> 00:58:34.940
inputs from the previously frozen 
land and sea bed in the Arctic

00:58:35.600 --> 00:58:38.940
find an easy link to this video presentation 
at Harvard University

00:58:39.060 --> 00:58:43.670
April 8 2015 in my shell 
blog eco shock.info.

00:58:43.670 --> 00:58:46.240
I'll also add my lengthy 
notes to the blog,

00:58:46.240 --> 00:58:50.840
which includes a few links and explanations 
we've blown through

00:58:50.840 --> 00:58:55.270
the time barrier again get all past 
programs as free MP3s from our

00:58:55.270 --> 00:58:59.780
website at shock.org listen any 
time on the radio shock page on

00:58:59.860 --> 00:59:01.990
sound cloud I'm Alex,