1 00:00:00,410 --> 00:00:01,460 Do you think this is. 2 00:00:01,500 --> 00:00:02,810 Maybe the ego shot. 3 00:00:02,850 --> 00:00:03,060 Okay. 4 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:09,390 Welcome to Radio Eco shock this week, 5 00:00:09,390 --> 00:00:13,030 we're going to investigate attempts by the fossil fuel industry to 6 00:00:13,030 --> 00:00:17,150 capture otherwise green thinking ports in the Pacific Northwest of 7 00:00:17,150 --> 00:00:21,450 the United States and Canada to export carbon to Asia. 8 00:00:21,450 --> 00:00:25,370 It's a battle you hardly hear about citizens are lining up against 9 00:00:25,420 --> 00:00:29,690 huge corporations with huge money to fight off giant coal ports 10 00:00:29,950 --> 00:00:34,720 liquefied natural gas ports even propane ports if we commit to 11 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:38,830 that infrastructure we commit to devastating climate change, 12 00:00:38,830 --> 00:00:42,950 not to mention the explosive toxic and polluting impacts of these 13 00:00:42,950 --> 00:00:45,590 big projects on the Pacific coast. 14 00:00:45,590 --> 00:00:49,960 It's species and its people will first hear from activist Kevin 15 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:52,170 Walsh book reporting from Vancouver, 16 00:00:52,170 --> 00:00:56,820 Canada and then from green radio host and activist Daphne why from 17 00:00:56,930 --> 00:00:57,470 Portland, 18 00:00:57,470 --> 00:00:58,590 Oregon. 19 00:00:58,590 --> 00:01:01,220 I'll wrap up with some new science presented at a Harvard 20 00:01:01,220 --> 00:01:05,710 University research talk Dr. James Anderson presents why climate 21 00:01:05,710 --> 00:01:06,790 change is coming, 22 00:01:06,790 --> 00:01:11,040 much faster than anyone thought possible and why it cannot be 23 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:15,650 reversed its eco shocking radio I'm Alex Smith let's roll. 24 00:01:24,210 --> 00:01:27,240 Multinational corporations would like to turn the gorgeous port of 25 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:27,810 Vancouver, 26 00:01:27,810 --> 00:01:32,230 Canada into another fossil fuel colony after call port proposals 27 00:01:32,230 --> 00:01:35,770 were blocked by a public outcry in the American Pacific Northwest 28 00:01:36,070 --> 00:01:39,290 they wanted to call out to Asia through Vancouver there's an 29 00:01:39,290 --> 00:01:42,990 active proposal to steer dirty tar sands oil into hundreds of 30 00:01:43,010 --> 00:01:46,730 tankers through Vancouver's scenic inlets even liquid natural gas 31 00:01:46,730 --> 00:01:50,740 is trying to use Vancouver as an outlet we've reached activist 32 00:01:50,930 --> 00:01:54,620 Kevin wash broken Vancouver he's part of the group voters taking 33 00:01:54,620 --> 00:01:58,730 action on climate change or veto back Kevin welcome to Radio Rico 34 00:01:58,730 --> 00:01:59,080 shock. 35 00:01:59,710 --> 00:02:00,490 I think to be here. 36 00:02:01,150 --> 00:02:04,360 Let's talk about call how big is the export business from 37 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:04,870 Vancouver. 38 00:02:05,980 --> 00:02:06,600 Well, 39 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:10,320 right now we have to fully functioning courts one in North 40 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:14,950 Vancouver internal with which exports exclusively be seen course 41 00:02:15,010 --> 00:02:19,310 in the coup these and then Wes short and so which is the biggest 42 00:02:19,310 --> 00:02:22,980 coal in Canada and depending on you know who was exporting more 43 00:02:22,980 --> 00:02:24,600 it's often the biggest of the business. 44 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:28,350 Call for North America Neptune exports around you know they export 45 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:31,430 around 6 million tons of call the year there, 46 00:02:31,430 --> 00:02:35,440 they're trying to expand that to larger large volumes sure exports 47 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:39,230 in the order 30 to 33 million tons of call the year and about 48 00:02:39,510 --> 00:02:42,810 about 8 million tons of that call is US thermal coal from the 49 00:02:42,870 --> 00:02:43,630 Tiber River Basin. 50 00:02:44,470 --> 00:02:47,880 While so they truck at all or would they train at all the way up 51 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:49,220 from Wyoming. 52 00:02:49,220 --> 00:02:49,960 I guess it is. 53 00:02:50,050 --> 00:02:50,850 It is in there. 54 00:02:50,850 --> 00:02:56,970 So it comes on Warren Buffett's be NSF railroad up through semi 55 00:02:57,780 --> 00:03:00,850 White Rock Crescent Beach all on the water through there and then 56 00:03:00,900 --> 00:03:04,250 up through around Monday and over 2 cops who were shorter. 57 00:03:05,060 --> 00:03:06,710 Why to using American call for. 58 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:07,140 Well, 59 00:03:07,140 --> 00:03:07,440 that's, 60 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:08,940 that's a good question their hair. 61 00:03:08,940 --> 00:03:12,890 They were plans there were plans for 6 coal ports on the US West 62 00:03:12,890 --> 00:03:15,850 Coast is recently you know 3 or 4 years ago. 63 00:03:15,850 --> 00:03:16,350 Yet, 64 00:03:16,350 --> 00:03:19,340 although 2 of those projects have either been completely have been 65 00:03:19,340 --> 00:03:20,880 rejected or abandoned. 66 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:22,560 And the last 2. 67 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:25,750 The one in Oregon on the Columbia River faces serious difficulties 68 00:03:25,870 --> 00:03:29,780 because it's failed to receive keep the last permanent through the 69 00:03:29,780 --> 00:03:32,940 last project and the largest at Cherry Point in Washington. 70 00:03:32,940 --> 00:03:34,750 So just south of the border. 71 00:03:34,750 --> 00:03:36,270 I'm also faces serious opposition, 72 00:03:36,270 --> 00:03:39,120 including from the Lonnie nation which is that right. 73 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:42,870 We reject this year after the so public outcry public opposition 74 00:03:43,230 --> 00:03:45,970 and really strong committee organizing in the state has stopped 75 00:03:46,060 --> 00:03:46,980 all these projects. 76 00:03:46,980 --> 00:03:48,870 So that leaves DC. 77 00:03:48,870 --> 00:03:51,150 You know it's sort of the backdoor. 78 00:03:51,150 --> 00:03:55,470 But the dirty doormat for US call on its way to Asia and so right 79 00:03:55,470 --> 00:03:56,110 now there there. 80 00:03:56,110 --> 00:03:59,860 They have been exporting this 7 million tons a year for some time 81 00:03:59,860 --> 00:04:03,390 70 million tons by way of comparison the the Cherry Point 82 00:04:03,780 --> 00:04:07,410 corporate proposal a delegation would be about 48 million tons of 83 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:11,630 call here and there is this new proposal to build a brand new coal 84 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:15,440 port on the fridge river in Surrey export exclusively American 85 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:16,990 call 4 million times now, 86 00:04:16,990 --> 00:04:17,970 probably more in the future. 87 00:04:18,690 --> 00:04:19,190 Great. 88 00:04:19,190 --> 00:04:23,010 So what problems do Coltrane polls for local communities. 89 00:04:23,430 --> 00:04:23,910 Well, 90 00:04:23,910 --> 00:04:24,200 yeah, 91 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:24,490 that's a, 92 00:04:24,490 --> 00:04:27,540 that's a good point you because in a specially NBC and in Metro 93 00:04:27,590 --> 00:04:30,130 they could because the other support authority that has, 94 00:04:30,130 --> 00:04:31,410 you know it's a federal agency. 95 00:04:31,410 --> 00:04:32,490 It's, 96 00:04:32,490 --> 00:04:32,970 it's sort of, 97 00:04:32,970 --> 00:04:34,270 almost like a Crown corporation. 98 00:04:34,270 --> 00:04:38,670 It's also regulator it has absolute power over decision making on 99 00:04:38,670 --> 00:04:42,730 Port Lands and that's by land basically all along the waterline in 100 00:04:42,730 --> 00:04:46,820 Metro Vancouver so they can approve a coal port but they take no 101 00:04:46,820 --> 00:04:50,410 responsibility for the external impacts that generates in the when 102 00:04:50,410 --> 00:04:54,070 you're mentioning now is key Coltrane so-called trains going to 103 00:04:54,180 --> 00:04:54,770 communities. 104 00:04:54,770 --> 00:04:57,460 You know they're extremely loud and they often travel at night and 105 00:04:57,690 --> 00:05:00,830 the noise levels in these things are over 100 decibels when the 106 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:03,550 but the way things are going and that exceeds you know. 107 00:05:03,550 --> 00:05:05,860 The World Health Organization says nighttime noise levels should 108 00:05:05,860 --> 00:05:09,420 be below 30 decibels for for young people from the elderly for the 109 00:05:09,470 --> 00:05:13,130 SEC others noisy also vibration and you know that there's problems 110 00:05:13,130 --> 00:05:16,930 and White Rock with the the cliff faces slumping because of the 111 00:05:16,930 --> 00:05:17,810 vibration. 112 00:05:17,810 --> 00:05:19,660 There's also a lot of concern over called us, 113 00:05:19,660 --> 00:05:21,990 do you know we don't know how much called us is lost in these 114 00:05:22,020 --> 00:05:25,590 trains and we don't know what the health impacts of law term 115 00:05:25,970 --> 00:05:29,920 exposure to low levels of particular are from the dust. 116 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:30,900 So that's an issue. 117 00:05:30,900 --> 00:05:31,530 The biggest one, 118 00:05:31,530 --> 00:05:33,070 the biggest concerns a diesel exhaust. 119 00:05:33,070 --> 00:05:33,480 We know, 120 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:36,830 diesel exhaust is a carcinogen and if a particular discrimination 121 00:05:37,610 --> 00:05:40,480 and trains run you know within a climate of a number of schools 122 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:42,450 and daycare senior centers, 123 00:05:42,450 --> 00:05:45,760 they're already running now and the planet it run more them so 124 00:05:46,280 --> 00:05:47,890 people are rightly concerned about always look. 125 00:05:48,980 --> 00:05:52,710 How have activist raised Vancouver's dirty coal profile in the 126 00:05:52,710 --> 00:05:53,420 media there. 127 00:05:54,030 --> 00:05:54,260 Yeah, 128 00:05:54,260 --> 00:05:54,870 it's been, 129 00:05:54,870 --> 00:05:56,110 it's been increasing process. 130 00:05:56,110 --> 00:06:00,240 You know it well and in the fall of 2012 a community member in 131 00:06:00,330 --> 00:06:03,850 Surrey told me about these 2 proposals for the expansion at 132 00:06:03,870 --> 00:06:07,840 Neptune and the new call for answer it for his 3 dogs and when I 133 00:06:07,840 --> 00:06:08,570 look at the numbers, 134 00:06:08,570 --> 00:06:11,800 if you added up all the proposed capacity if all of that call is 135 00:06:11,900 --> 00:06:12,660 exported. 136 00:06:12,660 --> 00:06:14,710 It will be more global warming pollution, 137 00:06:14,710 --> 00:06:16,390 then you know the Northern Gateway pipeline. 138 00:06:16,390 --> 00:06:17,440 It's a huge, 139 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:18,440 huge issue, 140 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:20,890 but it's all piecemeal and it was under the radar. 141 00:06:20,890 --> 00:06:25,920 So over the past 2.5 years we've managed to raise the profile 142 00:06:26,060 --> 00:06:29,710 immensely our organization and group based in Surrey called even 143 00:06:29,830 --> 00:06:33,240 call in dog within this year than others it it's process of 144 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:35,700 working with local governments one by one, 145 00:06:35,700 --> 00:06:39,380 getting them on board about the issues having them caller put 146 00:06:39,430 --> 00:06:42,850 forward motions calling for you know proper public assessment or 147 00:06:43,870 --> 00:06:48,080 health risk assessments of these projects and we've actually 148 00:06:48,540 --> 00:06:52,400 presented before Metro Vancouver and the region eventually opposed 149 00:06:52,470 --> 00:06:56,760 this Surrey outright various House leaders you know climate 150 00:06:56,790 --> 00:07:00,370 scientists leaders have all come out saying their post in this for 151 00:07:00,370 --> 00:07:04,070 everything from the BC nurses' union to you then see credit union 152 00:07:04,070 --> 00:07:08,140 to the fishermen's union too you know to groups of said this is a 153 00:07:08,140 --> 00:07:08,800 bad idea. 154 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:10,080 So you know, 155 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:12,780 we've held various rallies and events and we've presented at the 156 00:07:12,780 --> 00:07:14,610 Port Authority AGM and it's, 157 00:07:14,610 --> 00:07:16,120 it's really a simple issue, 158 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:19,320 you know we're saying the Port Authority can't make decisions that 159 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:22,200 affect our future as a region without including Arsenal's decision 160 00:07:22,700 --> 00:07:28,240 and they're an extremely arrogant and remote organization so that 161 00:07:28,290 --> 00:07:31,060 you know that the contrast is is so stark that I think the media 162 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:33,820 understand this in the broader public gets that you know you can't 163 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:37,330 do you think this anymore it's it's you now in the 19th century 164 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:40,070 may not you know captains of industry where we're, 165 00:07:40,070 --> 00:07:41,330 we're a democratic society. 166 00:07:42,260 --> 00:07:42,480 You know, 167 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:45,710 NASA scientist James Hansen famously was arrested protesting 168 00:07:45,710 --> 00:07:47,790 mountaintop removal for coal, 169 00:07:47,790 --> 00:07:51,010 but in Vancouver I was tracked east Simon Fraser University 170 00:07:51,010 --> 00:07:54,130 professor and world energy expert marked a card was arrested 171 00:07:54,300 --> 00:07:55,860 blocking a coal train. 172 00:07:55,860 --> 00:07:58,600 So it sounds like you are getting significant by in there. 173 00:07:58,980 --> 00:07:59,880 Yeah, 174 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:04,320 it's a pretty compelling story because it's a very stark one you 175 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:07,260 know we know that we need to radically reduce the use of fossil 176 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:09,870 fuels to avoid dangerous climate change, 177 00:08:09,870 --> 00:08:13,230 and it's the one study after another is coming out saying that you 178 00:08:13,230 --> 00:08:14,470 know we could probably burn a bit more. 179 00:08:14,470 --> 00:08:15,690 The oil and bit more a gas. 180 00:08:15,730 --> 00:08:18,420 But we absolutely can't burn more coal. 181 00:08:18,420 --> 00:08:21,210 You know 80% or more remain on the ground. 182 00:08:21,210 --> 00:08:24,700 If women avoid blowing past any sort of faith thresholds for 183 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:28,250 climate change and if that's the case and I and I believe it's 184 00:08:28,300 --> 00:08:28,690 true bits, 185 00:08:28,690 --> 00:08:29,730 and I mean I've read, 186 00:08:29,730 --> 00:08:32,830 then there is simply no valid argument for building a new Cold War 187 00:08:32,980 --> 00:08:35,510 anywhere in the world could when she it they're gonna want you 188 00:08:35,540 --> 00:08:36,010 that race. 189 00:08:36,010 --> 00:08:38,900 So it's very black and white from you know many things are in life 190 00:08:38,900 --> 00:08:40,240 , but this is very black and white. 191 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:41,670 A new Cold War in Surrey. 192 00:08:41,670 --> 00:08:42,640 It's a bad idea. 193 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:46,470 US thermal coal exports through measuring Hoover is a bad idea and 194 00:08:46,470 --> 00:08:49,180 it's something that we're standing up and saying no to thing I 195 00:08:49,180 --> 00:08:49,990 don't think this is right. 196 00:08:50,740 --> 00:08:54,080 Trying to stop fossil fuel exports is like playing the game 197 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:56,060 whack-a-mole you find one project, 198 00:08:56,060 --> 00:08:59,520 then another one pops up like the recent proposal to ship out 199 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:03,820 liquid natural gas via the historic Fraser River tell us what's 200 00:09:03,910 --> 00:09:04,600 happening there. 201 00:09:04,970 --> 00:09:05,200 Well, 202 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:06,920 that's another at another interesting thing, 203 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:07,670 I mean you know it, 204 00:09:07,670 --> 00:09:09,240 what's kind of most interesting about this, 205 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:09,420 you know, 206 00:09:09,420 --> 00:09:12,150 I guess I should say most frustrating is that there's no, 207 00:09:12,150 --> 00:09:15,350 there's no real effort by government to make people aware of these 208 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:18,860 things you know I literally stumbled across this proposal because 209 00:09:18,860 --> 00:09:22,740 I was on the BBC if I'm an assessment project or office website, 210 00:09:22,740 --> 00:09:26,600 and there's a new proposal recently posted 4 from this US company 211 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:30,450 Westpac midstream to build an LNG terminal on the afraid and if 212 00:09:30,450 --> 00:09:31,710 you know where to look if you go there, 213 00:09:31,710 --> 00:09:35,180 you can see that and you can make comment but if you don't know. 214 00:09:35,180 --> 00:09:37,330 You know I gonna find out and the government doesn't go along the 215 00:09:37,330 --> 00:09:40,990 Fraser and you know put up things on billboards or or on telephone 216 00:09:41,060 --> 00:09:41,550 poles and say, 217 00:09:41,550 --> 00:09:42,910 are you concerned about this. 218 00:09:42,910 --> 00:09:45,600 The federal government has given us from you know this so that 219 00:09:45,630 --> 00:09:49,520 this when they realize the certain size they have to let the BBC 220 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:51,710 in federal government's now and the government have to decide to 221 00:09:51,710 --> 00:09:54,310 do an assessment or not so auto. 222 00:09:54,310 --> 00:09:58,130 You know it's wisdom on May said okay will accept comments from 223 00:09:58,130 --> 00:10:01,640 the public until June 11 to help us decide if we should even do an 224 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:02,870 assessment or not, 225 00:10:02,870 --> 00:10:06,040 and furthermore if we should substitute the provincial assessment 226 00:10:06,170 --> 00:10:07,460 for the federal one. 227 00:10:07,460 --> 00:10:09,550 So if you didn't go to the sea. 228 00:10:09,550 --> 00:10:10,800 If they see a website. 229 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:14,240 The Canadian run of 72 website and see that notice you would never 230 00:10:14,290 --> 00:10:16,680 even known that there is a comment period. 231 00:10:16,680 --> 00:10:20,160 It's very frustrating because you know he's a big things and we 232 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:23,070 all need to have a say so ways to back up to the proposal. 233 00:10:23,390 --> 00:10:26,510 This is a plan for a brand new LNG terminal on the Fraser River in 234 00:10:26,510 --> 00:10:30,370 Delta BC next in the cement plants Federer across the river and 235 00:10:30,370 --> 00:10:33,780 just up just upstream from if you know Richmond this sort of all 236 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:37,800 water mania and a big movie complex and all that sort of stuff. 237 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:42,660 It would see 120 LNG tankers a year and 90 L&G barges here and 238 00:10:42,680 --> 00:10:45,500 going up and down the Fraser River now in comparison. 239 00:10:45,500 --> 00:10:48,840 Some people are somewhat more aware of this proposal for wood 240 00:10:48,940 --> 00:10:52,160 fiber LNG in squalor should have a lot of press this proposal 241 00:10:52,410 --> 00:10:56,220 Fraser will be 1.5 times as large also in comparison. 242 00:10:56,220 --> 00:11:00,430 The big Petronas Pacific Energy LNG project in Prince Rupert would 243 00:11:00,430 --> 00:11:01,670 be about 7 times larger, 244 00:11:01,670 --> 00:11:03,660 so this is a fairly small project, 245 00:11:03,660 --> 00:11:06,540 but it was they'll see a lot of LNG tankers on the river the 246 00:11:06,540 --> 00:11:08,630 proponent in this to me is typical bear. 247 00:11:08,630 --> 00:11:11,450 You know the project summary description and says we want a bogus 248 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:12,200 facility. 249 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:12,610 It's, 250 00:11:12,610 --> 00:11:13,940 this is the footprint, 251 00:11:13,940 --> 00:11:16,760 we're gonna look at an endangered plants and archeological sites 252 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:18,720 and what not right here. 253 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:23,520 But once we sell that L&G and it goes an LNG tanker it's someone 254 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:26,640 else's responsibility when I can assess those risks a crazy. 255 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:29,280 You know that's absolutely crazy and in the United States. 256 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:31,080 If you want to build an LNG terminal, 257 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:33,780 the Department of Homeland Security and the Coast Guard require 258 00:11:33,890 --> 00:11:37,580 you do connect a waterway suitability assessment on the entire 259 00:11:37,910 --> 00:11:41,170 tanker root out international waters to a distance of 3.5 260 00:11:41,170 --> 00:11:44,870 kilometers on each side because that's how far you know I I think 261 00:11:44,870 --> 00:11:50,070 that it cloud of be approaching travel and still be explosive DC 262 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:51,020 that doesn't happen, 263 00:11:51,020 --> 00:11:53,800 and there is no one asking the fundamental questions. 264 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:54,490 The final question, 265 00:11:54,490 --> 00:11:56,770 is it a good idea to go and LNG terminal in the face. 266 00:11:56,770 --> 00:11:57,000 Really. 267 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:00,060 They just simply must look and see if this will endanger plants or 268 00:12:00,150 --> 00:12:03,040 salmon or sturgeon at the site of the facility. 269 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:06,140 It's a very narrow blinkered approach to assessing these kinds of 270 00:12:06,140 --> 00:12:06,530 projects. 271 00:12:07,020 --> 00:12:10,820 Wait a minute you saying that a cloud can come off of one of those 272 00:12:10,820 --> 00:12:12,270 tankers if they were to leak. 273 00:12:12,270 --> 00:12:12,690 There we go. 274 00:12:12,690 --> 00:12:16,430 3.5 kilometers possibly on either side of the river into an area 275 00:12:16,490 --> 00:12:17,710 where millions of people live. 276 00:12:18,530 --> 00:12:18,790 Yeah, 277 00:12:18,790 --> 00:12:21,840 I know that's no okay so many backup and and quite hot. 278 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:25,090 So in the United States there there is a thing called Sandy 279 00:12:25,300 --> 00:12:29,280 National Laboratory essay and DIA and they conducted a study in 280 00:12:29,300 --> 00:12:30,600 the mid 2000s that. 281 00:12:30,700 --> 00:12:30,950 Said, 282 00:12:30,950 --> 00:12:31,630 you know, 283 00:12:31,630 --> 00:12:34,780 how are we going to assess the risks from LNG tankers and and what 284 00:12:34,810 --> 00:12:35,860 sort of garlands are you, 285 00:12:35,860 --> 00:12:38,870 are we going to create seems so they said. 286 00:12:38,870 --> 00:12:40,890 What's the worst case scenario. 287 00:12:40,890 --> 00:12:41,030 Well, 288 00:12:41,030 --> 00:12:44,150 the worst case scenario is you know an intentional rupture of 289 00:12:44,150 --> 00:12:49,090 containment of Ellen of all the LNG vessels on a tanker from 290 00:12:49,150 --> 00:12:51,450 something like a terrorist attack or an explosion. 291 00:12:51,450 --> 00:12:55,610 So in that worst case scenario what hazards will be created and so 292 00:12:55,610 --> 00:12:57,270 they said well within 5 kilometers. 293 00:12:57,270 --> 00:12:57,570 You know, 294 00:12:57,570 --> 00:13:01,340 everything would be burnt to a crisp and and after 16 and I mean 295 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,780 you have burn hazards and and freezing houses in these things and 296 00:13:04,780 --> 00:13:05,920 he would decline over distance. 297 00:13:06,310 --> 00:13:11,770 But if that cloud of LNG that is free if Allen she didn't ignite 298 00:13:11,810 --> 00:13:13,940 right away as it evaporate. 299 00:13:14,030 --> 00:13:19,080 Soon turns to gas before dispersing it can still be a risk of 300 00:13:19,170 --> 00:13:21,860 producing a fireball up to 3.5 kilometers away, 301 00:13:21,860 --> 00:13:23,510 so for that worst case scenario, 302 00:13:23,510 --> 00:13:27,040 we wouldn't require that L&G proponents examine the risks all 303 00:13:27,110 --> 00:13:29,720 along that 3 and half kilometer route and we want to know if there 304 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:30,650 are people living there. 305 00:13:30,650 --> 00:13:31,520 If there are, 306 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:33,540 you know if they're significant infrastructure there. 307 00:13:33,540 --> 00:13:34,870 If there are, 308 00:13:34,870 --> 00:13:35,460 I know well, 309 00:13:35,460 --> 00:13:38,930 sort of any sort of property or public health and safety risks, 310 00:13:38,930 --> 00:13:41,710 because you know that in the States they say yet explicitly 311 00:13:41,710 --> 00:13:43,440 examine the possibly of a terrorist attack. 312 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:44,950 You've got a look at the worst case scenario. 313 00:13:44,950 --> 00:13:47,890 Don't see what could happen if one of the things went badly wrong 314 00:13:48,420 --> 00:13:51,290 while and with so that that's smart to me you know you why you 315 00:13:51,290 --> 00:13:54,520 wanna know what the risks are before you privy sings before or 316 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:56,630 whoever prism in Canada, 317 00:13:56,630 --> 00:13:59,860 there is no such requirement and although looking at here is the 318 00:13:59,930 --> 00:14:01,070 footprint of this facility. 319 00:14:01,070 --> 00:14:01,860 And it's to me, 320 00:14:01,860 --> 00:14:04,110 that's quite frankly because you know I am, 321 00:14:04,110 --> 00:14:06,610 I am no supporter of the Harper government, 322 00:14:06,610 --> 00:14:10,190 but I do know that they say that the risk of terrorist threats 323 00:14:10,220 --> 00:14:11,750 Israel on our soil. 324 00:14:11,750 --> 00:14:11,900 Well, 325 00:14:11,900 --> 00:14:14,640 if that's the case then why you looking at the risks from 326 00:14:14,740 --> 00:14:17,530 transporting an extremely volatile substance in these battles 327 00:14:18,030 --> 00:14:20,280 through highly populated areas I just make sense. 328 00:14:21,260 --> 00:14:21,560 Well, 329 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:22,430 Kevin washed brick. 330 00:14:22,430 --> 00:14:25,780 We know there are quite a few environmentally conscious voters in 331 00:14:25,780 --> 00:14:28,600 the Vancouver region do you worry though, 332 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:33,620 that your work to stop these proposals will push fossil fuels 333 00:14:33,850 --> 00:14:36,950 further north along the coast to swarms or to northern ports, 334 00:14:36,950 --> 00:14:38,790 like Prince Rupert or killed a man. 335 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:40,250 That's events in question. 336 00:14:40,250 --> 00:14:41,220 I don't think so, 337 00:14:41,220 --> 00:14:43,980 I think you know those projects in the north. 338 00:14:43,980 --> 00:14:46,200 Local people they're gonna make their own assessment, 339 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:49,070 I mean I know my thoughts are in terms of the risks to the climate 340 00:14:49,330 --> 00:14:53,000 from L&G interims of what groups like the CCP in the pen. 341 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:56,840 The news you have figured out but local populations are gonna 342 00:14:57,480 --> 00:14:58,280 Broadway and assess. 343 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:01,220 The local rescue themselves and I and I respect their ability to 344 00:15:01,220 --> 00:15:03,970 do that and their and their interest in the non-I think what's 345 00:15:03,970 --> 00:15:06,600 going on here is that you know people down here are very aware 346 00:15:06,750 --> 00:15:10,260 that there are these big projects proposed up north weather's L&G 347 00:15:11,060 --> 00:15:13,790 you know it's been pipelines and we often don't feel like we can 348 00:15:13,790 --> 00:15:14,730 have any for say, 349 00:15:14,730 --> 00:15:17,060 and in this kind of future for BC, 350 00:15:17,060 --> 00:15:18,520 but in fact metro Vancouver. 351 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:22,630 We really are on the front lines of the fossil fuel debate in 352 00:15:22,630 --> 00:15:24,950 export debate because we have proposals for the Kinder Morgan 353 00:15:24,990 --> 00:15:25,640 pipeline, 354 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:27,660 we've got a proposal for a new coal ports. 355 00:15:27,660 --> 00:15:31,940 Now we have a proposal for well for the L&G Fraser and the LNG and 356 00:15:31,940 --> 00:15:35,720 squeamish so people realize is that there's a lot at stake here 357 00:15:35,770 --> 00:15:38,030 and they are then it's more accessible, 358 00:15:38,030 --> 00:15:40,360 it's here you know you can have more to say you can get engaged in 359 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:40,800 the debate. 360 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:42,290 And you can learn more about it, 361 00:15:42,290 --> 00:15:45,610 so I don't think it'll pushing the way I think there's so many 362 00:15:46,010 --> 00:15:49,840 companies trying to push for so many projects at once that like 363 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:50,100 you said, 364 00:15:50,100 --> 00:15:52,400 it's a bit of a lot more they're gonna pop up where they feel like 365 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:53,580 there's a possibility. 366 00:15:54,110 --> 00:15:57,240 Where editor group voters taking action on climate change. 367 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:00,500 Find most of its support to young people show up just older folks 368 00:16:00,570 --> 00:16:01,950 tell us about your supporters. 369 00:16:02,140 --> 00:16:02,900 That's, 370 00:16:02,900 --> 00:16:03,180 yeah, 371 00:16:03,180 --> 00:16:03,920 it's insane. 372 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:06,300 So you know most of our work is done online, 373 00:16:06,300 --> 00:16:09,950 really we we engage with the public through you know you social 374 00:16:09,950 --> 00:16:10,960 media. 375 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:12,050 When we do events, 376 00:16:12,050 --> 00:16:14,240 I mean we always work with other groups we do events too. 377 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:14,650 So it's, 378 00:16:14,650 --> 00:16:17,330 it's hard to say who's coming from where about it really is a 379 00:16:17,330 --> 00:16:17,950 cross section, 380 00:16:17,950 --> 00:16:20,650 there's a lot of older concerned folks and there's also a lot of 381 00:16:20,650 --> 00:16:22,790 young people we work a lot with a group called Kids for climate 382 00:16:22,860 --> 00:16:24,290 action on events that, 383 00:16:24,290 --> 00:16:26,630 and they'd rather their sort of a high school audience. 384 00:16:26,630 --> 00:16:27,390 I think the. 385 00:16:27,390 --> 00:16:30,510 I think the concern is widespread view whether it's because you're 386 00:16:30,610 --> 00:16:33,040 worried about you know the local environmental whether you're 387 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:35,120 worried about your future. 388 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:38,500 There's something to be concerned about your think I guess for all 389 00:16:38,500 --> 00:16:38,860 ages. 390 00:16:39,370 --> 00:16:41,160 And so the tack. 391 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:44,170 What do you think other communities say in the United States or 392 00:16:44,250 --> 00:16:47,840 Britain or elsewhere could learn from the way you're group has 393 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:49,040 formed and operated. 394 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:50,350 Well, 395 00:16:50,350 --> 00:16:51,480 interesting. 396 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:54,390 I think you know our our whole focus is trying to create 397 00:16:54,420 --> 00:16:56,830 opportunities for the public to express their concern. 398 00:16:56,830 --> 00:17:00,580 The government we train connected off between climate policy and 399 00:17:00,660 --> 00:17:05,260 fossil fuel exports that put climate at risk because the climate 400 00:17:05,290 --> 00:17:07,640 policy discussion are often pretty abstract like the thing that's 401 00:17:07,700 --> 00:17:09,830 happened recently with perhaps Harper have been saying that they 402 00:17:09,940 --> 00:17:14,400 agreed to eliminate fossil fuels by 2100 well 84 years and now no 403 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:16,310 one's gonna be here is alive now and. 404 00:17:16,310 --> 00:17:19,550 And that's just an absurd abstract discussion we have real 405 00:17:19,550 --> 00:17:22,070 products right here right now there are threatening our climate. 406 00:17:22,070 --> 00:17:23,170 So I think, 407 00:17:23,170 --> 00:17:26,070 creating opportunities for the public to engage in explicit 408 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:27,080 concerns are key. 409 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:30,270 And you know we've got a lot through public commenting websites 410 00:17:30,340 --> 00:17:32,940 like right now for the L&G think we've set up a website called 411 00:17:33,500 --> 00:17:37,880 real LNG hearings.org and that brings together all the information 412 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:41,440 on the Fraser River LNG proposal and there's a commenting tool. 413 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:44,500 Also you can send a message directly to the federal and run a 414 00:17:44,500 --> 00:17:45,060 minister, 415 00:17:45,060 --> 00:17:46,330 it's easy to local government. 416 00:17:46,330 --> 00:17:49,870 So my experience is that people care and they want to take action 417 00:17:49,870 --> 00:17:50,480 . You know, 418 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:53,690 they may think that they don't know how or they don't know during 419 00:17:53,690 --> 00:17:56,690 the time so you create an opportunity put all the information. 420 00:17:56,690 --> 00:17:58,110 One place that people want to act. 421 00:17:58,110 --> 00:17:59,590 I guess just empowering people, 422 00:17:59,590 --> 00:18:00,870 that's the key empowering people. 423 00:18:01,430 --> 00:18:04,200 Can you give us your website address or your Facebook page. 424 00:18:04,590 --> 00:18:05,000 Sure. 425 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:09,740 Our website is BT ACC.org that's a website. 426 00:18:09,740 --> 00:18:10,530 But the key, 427 00:18:10,530 --> 00:18:12,660 we're really focusing right now and on LNG. 428 00:18:12,660 --> 00:18:15,640 And so that's 3 real LNG hearings.org. 429 00:18:16,130 --> 00:18:16,440 Great, 430 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:17,090 thank you so much. 431 00:18:17,090 --> 00:18:20,000 I guess Kevin washed Brooke is an activist in Vancouver, 432 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:20,690 Canada. 433 00:18:20,690 --> 00:18:24,180 As part of the group voters taking action on climate change. 434 00:18:24,180 --> 00:18:25,200 I appreciate your time. 435 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:25,480 Kevin. 436 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:26,050 You're welcome. 437 00:18:26,050 --> 00:18:26,200 Take. 438 00:18:28,710 --> 00:18:29,280 We will. 439 00:18:29,950 --> 00:18:32,170 You're listening to shot radio. 440 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:33,570 I don't worry. 441 00:18:35,250 --> 00:18:39,070 I'm Alex meth at all their vehicle shock.org. 442 00:18:40,890 --> 00:18:44,590 What is happening on the US West Coast where fossil fuel companies 443 00:18:44,590 --> 00:18:47,250 raised export carbon to Asia. 444 00:18:47,250 --> 00:18:49,760 Let's tune in with a long-time friend of the environment. 445 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:53,490 Daphne why for 8 years out of Washington DC, 446 00:18:53,490 --> 00:18:54,010 Daphne, 447 00:18:54,010 --> 00:18:57,300 host of the syndicated radio show Earth beat on the Pacifica 448 00:18:57,510 --> 00:19:01,150 network her articles have been published by both mainstream and 449 00:19:01,270 --> 00:19:03,880 alternative media now Japanese in Portland, 450 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:04,660 Oregon. 451 00:19:04,660 --> 00:19:08,250 As the director of the climate and energy program at the Center 452 00:19:08,250 --> 00:19:11,060 for sustainable economy at the same time, 453 00:19:11,060 --> 00:19:14,890 she's an associate fellow at the Institute for Policy Studies. 454 00:19:14,890 --> 00:19:15,330 Daphne. 455 00:19:15,330 --> 00:19:18,230 It's so good to hear your voice again on Radio Echo shock, 456 00:19:18,230 --> 00:19:18,940 welcome back. 457 00:19:19,370 --> 00:19:20,090 Thanks so much. 458 00:19:20,090 --> 00:19:21,260 Alex is going to be here. 459 00:19:22,070 --> 00:19:26,240 You know I were just on post carbon radio on K W M are in Northern 460 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:27,160 California with. 461 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:31,480 Bing Gong and current IOS it was a wide-ranging talk I'd like in 462 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:34,940 this instance to drill down to what's happening in Portland. 463 00:19:34,940 --> 00:19:35,820 The state of Oregon, 464 00:19:35,820 --> 00:19:37,460 maybe the Pacific Northwest. 465 00:19:37,460 --> 00:19:40,910 When it comes to transporting fossil fuels are you up for that. 466 00:19:41,820 --> 00:19:42,400 I dream. 467 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:43,470 All right. 468 00:19:43,470 --> 00:19:46,160 Why don't we start with Portland what battles have been fought 469 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:49,260 their recently against becoming a dirty carbon outlet. 470 00:19:50,670 --> 00:19:50,920 Well, 471 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:54,560 one thing that people may not realize is that not only Portland, 472 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:55,630 Oregon. 473 00:19:55,630 --> 00:19:56,810 Barry hit city. 474 00:19:56,810 --> 00:20:01,120 It also happened to be one of the first cities in the first city 475 00:20:01,120 --> 00:20:04,810 in the United States to put in place a climate action plan back in 476 00:20:04,810 --> 00:20:08,900 the early 1990s Portland decided that it really needed to take the 477 00:20:08,900 --> 00:20:12,530 climate crisis seriously an admirable, 478 00:20:12,530 --> 00:20:16,750 the city had largely been ahead of the curve for the rest of the 479 00:20:16,860 --> 00:20:21,610 country and who has a reputation intact was recognized by the 480 00:20:21,610 --> 00:20:25,930 White House's so-called climate championships last December, 481 00:20:25,930 --> 00:20:30,840 despite its reputation or perhaps in addition to that reputation. 482 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:36,470 The measure decided that it was going to be a good idea to invite 483 00:20:36,690 --> 00:20:40,950 one of the biggest tar sands pipeline operators in the Canadian 484 00:20:41,340 --> 00:20:45,210 out Penn Beantown Pipeline Corporation to set up shop in 485 00:20:45,580 --> 00:20:50,400 Portland's harbors and they wanted to export propane from the 486 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:54,700 terminal here in Portland he welcomed them with open arms. 487 00:20:54,700 --> 00:21:00,130 A lot of us began to organize cried foul and at the time of this 488 00:21:00,550 --> 00:21:01,200 interview. 489 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:05,150 We seem to have one were reluctant to completely declare victory 490 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:09,700 because this corporation have bottomless pockets and is doing all 491 00:21:09,700 --> 00:21:15,020 it can do you fight back but we we need to campaign both based on 492 00:21:15,020 --> 00:21:21,100 both safety issues climate issues and we generated thousands of 493 00:21:21,100 --> 00:21:26,600 letters and very creative involvement from a wide array of folks 494 00:21:26,660 --> 00:21:28,070 here in in the city, 495 00:21:28,070 --> 00:21:33,540 including Rani basically first activists and people taking over 496 00:21:33,570 --> 00:21:38,100 City Council hearings and we finally got our message across and it 497 00:21:38,100 --> 00:21:42,380 appears that time you know it is not going to be welcome anymore 498 00:21:42,590 --> 00:21:44,340 in in the city of Portland. 499 00:21:44,340 --> 00:21:48,000 We want to use this victory though not just to say no one in our 500 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:49,440 backyard, 501 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:54,820 but also to alert people to just how insane. 502 00:21:54,820 --> 00:21:59,370 It is to be pushing forward with fossil fuel infrastructure in the 503 00:21:59,460 --> 00:22:00,790 Pacific Northwest. 504 00:22:00,790 --> 00:22:05,450 They have been the imperative that we begin to ratchet down our 505 00:22:05,610 --> 00:22:07,420 overall greenhouse gas emissions. 506 00:22:07,420 --> 00:22:08,440 Not only the northwest, 507 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:12,740 but globally and to draw attention to the fact that the Pacific 508 00:22:12,740 --> 00:22:17,030 Northwest right now is in the crosshairs of the fossil fuel 509 00:22:17,030 --> 00:22:17,610 industry. 510 00:22:17,610 --> 00:22:23,130 They want to export 5 times the carbon and is now being proposed 511 00:22:23,250 --> 00:22:28,590 for the Keystone XL pipeline through our reports in Oregon and 512 00:22:28,630 --> 00:22:34,310 Washington is and very few people are aware of just how serious 513 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:40,150 this however it is to our economy to iron beautiful rivers and 514 00:22:40,150 --> 00:22:40,820 lakes and 515 00:22:42,390 --> 00:22:46,270 outside of the northwest of course hero at the norms and trying to 516 00:22:46,330 --> 00:22:50,670 take on one proposal after another that comes down the pike. 517 00:22:50,670 --> 00:22:53,780 So rather than just playing whack-a-mole they which is sort of 518 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:56,370 what a lot of groups have been doing it, 519 00:22:56,370 --> 00:23:00,590 you stop one project popped up an unemployed we've decided to 520 00:23:00,590 --> 00:23:06,140 declare a ban on all new fossil fuel infrastructure starting in 521 00:23:06,140 --> 00:23:10,610 Portland and then moving out to the rest of Oregon and the rest of 522 00:23:10,610 --> 00:23:15,930 the northwest and we should be getting a hearing over the coming 523 00:23:15,930 --> 00:23:21,800 year by city officials around this call we want no fossil fuel 524 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,220 exports and no new fossil fuel infrastructure in the city. 525 00:23:25,220 --> 00:23:27,800 So that's our campaign and and I think we have a pretty good 526 00:23:27,860 --> 00:23:28,480 chance of winning. 527 00:23:29,170 --> 00:23:29,390 Yeah, 528 00:23:29,390 --> 00:23:30,830 it would be such a different story. 529 00:23:30,830 --> 00:23:34,620 If you're exporting solar panels in bulk or wind machines. 530 00:23:35,270 --> 00:23:36,010 Sure, 531 00:23:36,010 --> 00:23:36,340 yeah, 532 00:23:36,340 --> 00:23:39,850 I mean we would love to be doing something along those lines, 533 00:23:39,850 --> 00:23:44,530 and in fact that's that's the vision that Portland quite action 534 00:23:44,530 --> 00:23:48,990 plan today called for which is you know I get under way ahead of 535 00:23:48,990 --> 00:23:53,230 the curve trying to push for by Kabul and walkable cities could 536 00:23:53,370 --> 00:23:56,780 drastically reducing greenhouse gas emissions increasing public 537 00:23:56,890 --> 00:23:57,590 transit. 538 00:23:57,590 --> 00:23:59,740 So it just doesn't make sense. 539 00:23:59,740 --> 00:24:03,700 We found that the emissions from Justice Warren propane terminal 540 00:24:03,850 --> 00:24:08,750 alone over several decades would be larger than the entire city of 541 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,920 Portland's emissions if if our missions were to continue to go 542 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:12,350 down. 543 00:24:12,350 --> 00:24:16,640 So I just didn't make sense from a climate action perspective to 544 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:18,940 be proceeding with this this terminal. 545 00:24:19,330 --> 00:24:19,580 Right. 546 00:24:19,580 --> 00:24:22,100 It's almost like changing your light bulbs at home but along a 547 00:24:22,100 --> 00:24:24,080 coal plant to be built next door. 548 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:25,540 So as you know. 549 00:24:25,540 --> 00:24:28,470 Billionaire Warren Buffet is having a hard time finding a place to 550 00:24:28,500 --> 00:24:32,180 unload his call trains for shipping to China, 551 00:24:32,180 --> 00:24:36,120 what have you heard about new coal ports in the Pacific Northwest 552 00:24:36,120 --> 00:24:37,300 . Well, 553 00:24:37,300 --> 00:24:37,550 you know, 554 00:24:37,550 --> 00:24:41,710 there's been quite a few proposals all export terminals in the 555 00:24:41,710 --> 00:24:46,530 Pacific Northwest and almost all of them have been defeated. 556 00:24:46,530 --> 00:24:47,370 We have 2, 557 00:24:47,370 --> 00:24:49,910 there are still on the table, 558 00:24:49,910 --> 00:24:53,830 one in Long View Washington and one in Cherry Point: 559 00:24:53,830 --> 00:24:59,920 both are for over 40 million tons of coal exports per year they 560 00:24:59,920 --> 00:25:04,920 won in Cherry Point Washington is on Native American land on the 561 00:25:04,980 --> 00:25:06,530 only land and they are, 562 00:25:06,530 --> 00:25:11,870 they are fighting and waging a very serious battle against that 563 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,620 call export terminal because they argue that it would violate 564 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:20,430 their treaties and would affect their fisheries the other 565 00:25:20,430 --> 00:25:25,140 proposals that have been tabled by up and down the the Columbia 566 00:25:25,140 --> 00:25:27,680 River have have been withdrawn, 567 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:31,400 essentially by the investors over the past 5 years, 568 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:35,320 you may have to do with the fact that call increasingly has become 569 00:25:35,460 --> 00:25:37,580 less and less profitable, 570 00:25:37,580 --> 00:25:41,470 we also suspect it has something to do with the fact that these 571 00:25:41,550 --> 00:25:47,860 very same terminal began to look attractive for oil exports. 572 00:25:47,860 --> 00:25:52,030 Soon as we get rid of a of a coal terminal an oil terminal as 573 00:25:52,030 --> 00:25:52,790 proposed, 574 00:25:52,790 --> 00:25:56,860 in fact the largest oil terminal in the entire United States is 575 00:25:56,890 --> 00:26:00,630 being proposed right across the river from Portland in the event 576 00:26:00,690 --> 00:26:07,050 Koura Washington and that battle is now being wedged between on 577 00:26:07,050 --> 00:26:08,000 the one hand, 578 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:12,770 there's any plan for a major development on the riverfront that a 579 00:26:12,770 --> 00:26:16,060 lot of people are very excited to see happen with you know 580 00:26:16,260 --> 00:26:20,090 condominiums and businesses ride along the river and should this 581 00:26:20,110 --> 00:26:24,630 oil terminal get built there that project will not go forward. 582 00:26:24,630 --> 00:26:29,380 So there's a lot of tension between those 2 different types of 583 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:30,970 development that have being proposed. 584 00:26:30,970 --> 00:26:31,770 But you know, 585 00:26:31,770 --> 00:26:33,250 over and over again. 586 00:26:33,250 --> 00:26:34,210 These oil, 587 00:26:34,210 --> 00:26:39,430 gas and coal corporations are using very sneaky tactics they'll 588 00:26:39,430 --> 00:26:41,570 claim for example, 589 00:26:41,570 --> 00:26:45,960 one of the ways 30 oil company managed to get the Bakken crude 590 00:26:46,050 --> 00:26:49,520 managed to be exported along the Columbia River, 591 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:51,360 they got me a port, 592 00:26:51,360 --> 00:26:55,500 claiming it was going to be used as a bio refinery the bio 593 00:26:55,630 --> 00:26:58,880 refinery went bankrupt and there and once they had already gotten 594 00:26:58,940 --> 00:27:02,340 the amended for the bio refinery they changed it to an oil 595 00:27:02,340 --> 00:27:05,840 terminal so there's all sorts of tricky schemes that these 596 00:27:05,950 --> 00:27:08,970 industries are using outright lies, 597 00:27:08,970 --> 00:27:10,290 claiming that they are, 598 00:27:10,290 --> 00:27:10,620 you know, 599 00:27:10,620 --> 00:27:13,950 for example in the case of the propane terminal they claimed it 600 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:18,580 was going to be used for the women to cook with him in Asia, 601 00:27:18,580 --> 00:27:22,440 we found that in fact it was on the used to be making proclaiming 602 00:27:22,630 --> 00:27:26,240 and plastics and nothing to do with the alleviating the poverty 603 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:28,640 were women in in Asia. 604 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,760 So you know we have to be on our guard against these companies 605 00:27:31,790 --> 00:27:32,050 there, 606 00:27:32,050 --> 00:27:36,330 they're using every strategy they can Oregon apparently is number 607 00:27:36,330 --> 00:27:40,000 3 nationally as a target for Alex funds, 608 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:44,270 that's one of the right wing anti-environmental and and climate 609 00:27:44,350 --> 00:27:48,410 denialist groups that's been pushing a a very strong legislative 610 00:27:48,410 --> 00:27:52,390 agenda in favor of big energy and they're going up oil you know. 611 00:27:52,390 --> 00:27:52,820 So we're, 612 00:27:52,820 --> 00:27:55,390 we're really fighting on all fronts here in the north. 613 00:27:56,420 --> 00:27:57,730 Now going ask you about that. 614 00:27:57,730 --> 00:28:00,900 I mean whenever big oil money comes into an area. 615 00:28:00,900 --> 00:28:03,370 There's a chance for corruption and certainly you can woo 616 00:28:03,370 --> 00:28:07,200 politicians with the ideas of more jobs and a better economy, 617 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:11,860 and eventually I wonder is it even compatible with local democracy 618 00:28:12,030 --> 00:28:16,000 and and freedom to in your area to allow these companies to come 619 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,240 in and start working the way you're describing. 620 00:28:19,120 --> 00:28:21,130 Well that's that's compared threat. 621 00:28:21,130 --> 00:28:25,080 I think that's that's looming for region is you know it's yet to 622 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:29,570 potentially will change the and not just the political nature of 623 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:30,350 this region, 624 00:28:30,350 --> 00:28:32,810 but you know the entire economy. 625 00:28:32,810 --> 00:28:36,900 It was shaped in a completely different direction when we start 626 00:28:36,900 --> 00:28:41,810 welcoming in trains and trains and terminals and refineries 627 00:28:42,590 --> 00:28:46,350 suddenly start looking a lot more like Texas than Oregon both 628 00:28:46,390 --> 00:28:49,760 politically and you know environmentally and that's certainly not 629 00:28:49,900 --> 00:28:52,430 what a lot of people moved to the Pacific Northwest. 630 00:28:52,430 --> 00:28:56,140 His experience and that the values of the northwest, 631 00:28:56,140 --> 00:29:00,300 but you know we have in addition to the the traditional political 632 00:29:00,300 --> 00:29:00,940 concerns. 633 00:29:00,940 --> 00:29:04,490 There's also of course the concerns that Native Americans have 634 00:29:04,490 --> 00:29:09,240 around preserving their trade is a concern has been without a 635 00:29:09,330 --> 00:29:13,940 court and try to get these treaties upheld for Native Americans is 636 00:29:13,970 --> 00:29:17,750 that in some cases if they lose their truly get weekend. 637 00:29:17,750 --> 00:29:21,890 So it's a great at great risk that they go to court and try to get 638 00:29:21,980 --> 00:29:26,250 these treaties upheld and that's another potential setback that 639 00:29:26,370 --> 00:29:27,630 unfortunately once again. 640 00:29:27,630 --> 00:29:30,720 Native Americans have an awful lot to lose in this battle. 641 00:29:31,510 --> 00:29:35,730 This is Radio Eco shark with Augusta long time Green radio host 642 00:29:35,830 --> 00:29:40,150 and activist Stephanie Weisz another big do you know Darfuris is 643 00:29:40,180 --> 00:29:43,520 to announce massive liquid natural gas terminals. 644 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:45,720 We've got a government in British Columbia, 645 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:49,360 the got elected promising all the jobs in the money and and you 646 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,080 know our budget would be totally balanced once we get these LNG 647 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:52,630 plants, 648 00:29:52,630 --> 00:29:53,970 which have not materialized. 649 00:29:53,970 --> 00:29:55,140 Incidentally, 650 00:29:55,140 --> 00:29:57,810 what about LNG in the Pacific Northwest. 651 00:29:58,450 --> 00:29:58,670 Well, 652 00:29:58,670 --> 00:30:02,550 that's another big battle that we're facing right now we've got 2 653 00:30:02,620 --> 00:30:07,530 major pipelines being proposed just for Oregon one in southern 654 00:30:07,530 --> 00:30:10,410 Oregon that they want to build its over$7 655 00:30:10,420 --> 00:30:15,390 billion pipeline that they want to build through the southern part 656 00:30:15,390 --> 00:30:20,690 of Oregon and then have the export terminal export LNG from coups 657 00:30:20,730 --> 00:30:24,920 they Oregon and another one in northern Oregon and Washington, 658 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:29,470 Oregon and both of these projects would involved. 659 00:30:29,470 --> 00:30:30,280 Of course, 660 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:35,250 massive equation land that a lot of it in private hands. 661 00:30:35,250 --> 00:30:38,310 And in many cases they are claiming, 662 00:30:38,310 --> 00:30:40,910 eminent domain. 663 00:30:40,910 --> 00:30:46,280 You know as an argument in favor of her example 10 about$25,000 664 00:30:46,610 --> 00:30:47,820 per acre, 665 00:30:47,820 --> 00:30:52,590 which is way below the market value due to land borders and the 666 00:30:52,590 --> 00:30:56,370 irony in this is that many of these LNG companies are actually 667 00:30:56,470 --> 00:30:59,570 foreign owned and they're claiming eminent domain, 668 00:30:59,570 --> 00:31:02,060 which is you know of course it's for export. 669 00:31:02,060 --> 00:31:05,770 So a lot of people that I was lifting these LNG terminals are 670 00:31:05,830 --> 00:31:06,060 saying, 671 00:31:06,060 --> 00:31:06,250 you know, 672 00:31:06,250 --> 00:31:06,710 how, 673 00:31:06,710 --> 00:31:11,790 how can he possibly be using a law that was created to develop 674 00:31:11,790 --> 00:31:16,510 infrastructure for people in the United States taking on land away 675 00:31:16,510 --> 00:31:21,120 from us in order to facilitate the profits of foreign corporations 676 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:25,110 that are just bypassing all of our our legal structures in order 677 00:31:25,110 --> 00:31:29,300 to to build this pipeline and exported it to other countries. 678 00:31:29,300 --> 00:31:30,650 So there's a lot of resistance. 679 00:31:30,650 --> 00:31:31,350 But again, 680 00:31:31,350 --> 00:31:35,650 not with so much money on achieve all a lot of politicians are 681 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:37,970 lining up to support this, 682 00:31:37,970 --> 00:31:42,520 and certainly our local paper The Oregonian seems to be 683 00:31:44,100 --> 00:31:47,440 completely in the pocket of the fossil fuel industry which written 684 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,280 editorials saying that climate change is not a concern for 685 00:31:50,310 --> 00:31:54,680 Oregonian Gennaro regularly trumpeting all the benefits of these 686 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:55,980 fossil fuel exports. 687 00:31:55,980 --> 00:31:57,780 So we're in a bit of a, 688 00:31:57,780 --> 00:31:58,190 you know, 689 00:31:58,190 --> 00:32:00,590 in a bit of a of a war here in the northwest. 690 00:32:00,590 --> 00:32:04,780 In terms of both keeping people informed about what's really 691 00:32:04,780 --> 00:32:08,870 happening and and taking you know holding our elected officials 692 00:32:08,980 --> 00:32:09,400 accountable. 693 00:32:10,330 --> 00:32:12,470 Does the state of Oregon allow fracas. 694 00:32:13,430 --> 00:32:20,270 Now it has not banned tracking this actually did come up this 695 00:32:20,270 --> 00:32:24,500 year and that there wasn't a bill that originally was going to ban 696 00:32:24,500 --> 00:32:28,630 for acting and then it sort of morphed into regulating tracking 697 00:32:28,860 --> 00:32:31,550 and that created a huge uproar where people said no we don't want 698 00:32:31,550 --> 00:32:32,120 to regulate it. 699 00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:35,500 We want ban it out outcry currently there as far as I know there's 700 00:32:35,630 --> 00:32:40,240 very little in the way of any sort of gas exploitable gas reserves 701 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:43,620 anywhere in Oregon but I think he would have an awfully hard time 702 00:32:43,860 --> 00:32:44,820 for hacking in Oregon. 703 00:32:45,820 --> 00:32:47,180 Well that's good to hear now Daphne, 704 00:32:47,180 --> 00:32:51,270 I know you continue to keep track of US national policy as well. 705 00:32:51,270 --> 00:32:54,540 What do you make of President Obama taking you know he talks 706 00:32:54,610 --> 00:32:58,120 strongly about climate change and any approves exploration for 707 00:32:58,180 --> 00:33:01,560 more fossil fuels in the fragile Arctic by Shell Oil. 708 00:33:02,210 --> 00:33:04,090 You know you're getting as good as mine. 709 00:33:04,090 --> 00:33:09,090 Alex I'm I'm just mystified at you know how he can not take 710 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:10,650 especially of late. 711 00:33:10,690 --> 00:33:12,400 In his last 2 years in office, 712 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:16,330 where I think it's so much more freely disputed boldly about the 713 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,820 climate crisis and seems to be taking an awful lot of 714 00:33:20,370 --> 00:33:22,370 opportunities to speak out on it. 715 00:33:22,370 --> 00:33:25,700 Why he would on the one hand take these, 716 00:33:25,700 --> 00:33:26,050 you know, 717 00:33:26,050 --> 00:33:29,770 take these actions do for example restrict coal-fired power plant 718 00:33:29,770 --> 00:33:34,120 emissions and and increase energy efficient, 719 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:37,960 fuel-efficient automobiles and then at the same time allow for 720 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:42,170 Arctic drilling and massive oil and gas chemical exports. 721 00:33:42,170 --> 00:33:46,130 I suppose it may have something to do with the fact that he was 722 00:33:46,210 --> 00:33:50,170 the number one recipient of BP's funds when he was running for 723 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:51,550 office. 724 00:33:51,550 --> 00:33:56,200 I don't know if he's still feeling beholden to his donors. 725 00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:00,320 It's really hard to understand why he why he is acting only hears 726 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,130 . And again on the international front. 727 00:34:03,130 --> 00:34:04,080 I was disappointed. 728 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:05,750 The leaders of industrial countries, 729 00:34:05,750 --> 00:34:09,480 the G7 could only promise an end to carbon emissions by the end of 730 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:11,400 this century 85 years away. 731 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,410 That's way too late to avoid catastrophic climate change. 732 00:34:14,410 --> 00:34:15,150 What do you think. 733 00:34:15,870 --> 00:34:16,460 That's right, 734 00:34:16,460 --> 00:34:21,720 I mean we had a proposal that whereas the Germans and the G7 were 735 00:34:21,820 --> 00:34:27,150 trying to you get indeed curb innovation of all other G7 economies 736 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:32,940 by 20-50 and the Canadians and the Japanese pushed back on 737 00:34:32,970 --> 00:34:34,590 urgently and said no, 738 00:34:34,590 --> 00:34:39,660 but we were sign on to do carbon the station by 2100 of course is 739 00:34:39,720 --> 00:34:41,100 a non-binding agreement. 740 00:34:41,100 --> 00:34:44,260 So even if it were 2050 it would be, 741 00:34:44,260 --> 00:34:49,890 wouldn't be all that that exciting but 2100 it is still far out 742 00:34:50,010 --> 00:34:53,930 you know past it the lifetime of any of these folks at the table 743 00:34:54,020 --> 00:34:56,920 and I'm sure they felt very comfortable making this agreement and 744 00:34:57,470 --> 00:34:59,150 kicking the can down the road. 745 00:34:59,150 --> 00:35:03,600 The Japanese apparently are very heavily invested you know coal 746 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:07,560 fire power you know he's learned that explains their reluctance, 747 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:12,920 do you see any decrease in their investments in coal and I I I 748 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:16,780 suppose the Canadians do the tourist town are reluctant to see 749 00:35:17,380 --> 00:35:22,930 decolonization any trying to do but you seem to suggest in in our 750 00:35:22,980 --> 00:35:27,480 last conversation tar sands profits are plummeting as their own. 751 00:35:27,900 --> 00:35:28,690 That's true. 752 00:35:28,690 --> 00:35:31,760 It's just too expensive to produce the tar sands. 753 00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:33,180 You need at least$60 754 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:34,370 to$70 755 00:35:34,460 --> 00:35:38,410 a barrel to do it and they're only getting about 40 to 45 they 756 00:35:38,410 --> 00:35:44,010 don't get world prices because the tires and requires so much work 757 00:35:44,010 --> 00:35:46,870 at the refinery to get a usable product that they get a lower 758 00:35:46,930 --> 00:35:47,250 price. 759 00:35:47,250 --> 00:35:49,940 So they're losing some money and it, 760 00:35:49,940 --> 00:35:54,100 what's happening is this massive layoffs in Alberta and I mean big 761 00:35:54,100 --> 00:35:59,050 big big layoffs and the financing for these companies is getting 762 00:35:59,100 --> 00:36:01,130 hard to get and their stocks, 763 00:36:01,130 --> 00:36:04,830 according to one of our guests went down 70%, 764 00:36:04,830 --> 00:36:07,300 so that's a big drop in their stock value as well. 765 00:36:08,060 --> 00:36:09,390 Interesting. 766 00:36:09,390 --> 00:36:09,550 Well, 767 00:36:09,550 --> 00:36:10,590 that may be. 768 00:36:10,590 --> 00:36:12,950 Let me explain why they're trying to do. 769 00:36:12,950 --> 00:36:19,260 Also some of the same companies cap into the acts Gaston and 770 00:36:19,620 --> 00:36:24,970 propane byproduct of that in the past have been treated as a waste 771 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:25,420 gas, 772 00:36:25,420 --> 00:36:27,440 it's another revenue stream for them. 773 00:36:28,380 --> 00:36:31,360 You now do you expect much concrete to come out of the pair's 774 00:36:31,430 --> 00:36:32,790 climate talks later this year. 775 00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:37,490 Well I'm I'm always hopeful. 776 00:36:37,490 --> 00:36:37,650 Well, 777 00:36:37,650 --> 00:36:41,180 I I had that they haven't been I I went to the climate 778 00:36:41,180 --> 00:36:46,370 negotiations in Kyoto and I went to several others after that and 779 00:36:46,370 --> 00:36:48,420 I haven't been to the last few years, 780 00:36:48,420 --> 00:36:51,990 and I was just feeling very discouraged about all of the 781 00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:56,400 brinksmanship and which which is what you always see it with these 782 00:36:56,480 --> 00:37:00,670 conferences nobody shows their hand until long after midnight on 783 00:37:00,670 --> 00:37:04,340 the final made and finally everybody's scrambling on very little 784 00:37:04,340 --> 00:37:06,710 sleep to come up with an agreement. 785 00:37:06,710 --> 00:37:10,890 It just seemed like you know I dream of of chess with the planets 786 00:37:10,890 --> 00:37:13,940 . The fate of the planet at stake over and over again. 787 00:37:13,940 --> 00:37:16,380 I got I kind of very tiresome. 788 00:37:16,380 --> 00:37:17,800 This time, 789 00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:21,550 you know we do how China coming to the table with an agreement 790 00:37:21,910 --> 00:37:27,780 with the United States that does seem to have potentially at least 791 00:37:27,870 --> 00:37:32,450 broken a logjam between the developing countries and that the 792 00:37:32,470 --> 00:37:35,850 wealthy countries that we saw over and over again played out its 793 00:37:35,950 --> 00:37:36,930 climate negotiations. 794 00:37:36,930 --> 00:37:40,690 So it seems that the dynamics could be different enough to 795 00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:45,370 potentially a shift things moving forward. 796 00:37:45,370 --> 00:37:49,850 But whether we'll see the kind of truly dramatic commitments that 797 00:37:49,950 --> 00:37:52,530 are needed to stabilize the climate earning trying to, 798 00:37:52,530 --> 00:37:52,890 you know, 799 00:37:52,890 --> 00:37:57,230 I'm not that hopeful but I I I do think to think well at least 800 00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:58,810 begin to shift at this next Senate. 801 00:37:58,900 --> 00:37:59,280 Fox. 802 00:37:59,750 --> 00:38:00,080 You know. 803 00:38:00,130 --> 00:38:03,050 Now America has elections coming up eventually, 804 00:38:03,050 --> 00:38:06,010 do you expect the same rogues gallery of Republican climate 805 00:38:06,130 --> 00:38:09,080 deniers to be elected again in Congress. 806 00:38:09,940 --> 00:38:16,020 I think the Republicans have a very slim chances of gaining the 807 00:38:16,020 --> 00:38:16,650 presidency. 808 00:38:16,650 --> 00:38:20,730 I think that they have a higher likelihood of retaining control of 809 00:38:20,730 --> 00:38:23,840 the south and in the house when you have somebody like Hillary 810 00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:24,970 Clinton running for office. 811 00:38:24,970 --> 00:38:30,540 I think you know just given her stature nationally and and 812 00:38:30,630 --> 00:38:31,380 globally. 813 00:38:31,380 --> 00:38:34,930 She probably stand a greater chance than any of the other 814 00:38:35,140 --> 00:38:38,040 candidates they're running but a lot can happen between now and 815 00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:41,600 20-16 that's my prediction at this point in time, 816 00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:46,350 oil processing Bernie Sanders surprisingly gaining on Hillary 817 00:38:46,350 --> 00:38:46,970 Clinton. 818 00:38:46,970 --> 00:38:49,990 He is an independent and a self-proclaimed socialist. 819 00:38:49,990 --> 00:38:53,270 So that's a huge surprise for the United States. 820 00:38:53,270 --> 00:38:54,500 I think what it suggests, 821 00:38:54,500 --> 00:38:59,130 is that people have had enough of either candidate really avoiding 822 00:38:59,170 --> 00:39:03,120 the issue of income inequality and Bernie standard but there is 823 00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:06,550 taking on the corporations in the banks like no other candidate is 824 00:39:06,550 --> 00:39:07,050 right now. 825 00:39:07,700 --> 00:39:10,730 You know I remember after the financial crash that Bernie Sanders 826 00:39:10,940 --> 00:39:14,440 actually came out and described who runs America and it was 827 00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:17,660 revealing he talked for hours and hours and hours on the record. 828 00:39:17,660 --> 00:39:19,640 It was great stuff. 829 00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:20,150 Well, 830 00:39:20,150 --> 00:39:22,020 I see that scientists say. 831 00:39:22,020 --> 00:39:24,770 Climate change will look very different from region to region, 832 00:39:24,770 --> 00:39:27,930 and we saw that again this year in North America with a hot 833 00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:32,390 exceptionally dry western a cool snow rainy east is it a big 834 00:39:32,490 --> 00:39:36,910 problem that citizens experience climate change so locally and yet 835 00:39:36,910 --> 00:39:39,650 the problem demands a global solution. 836 00:39:40,290 --> 00:39:40,880 Well, 837 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,330 I mean in terms of the deserving Northwest, 838 00:39:43,330 --> 00:39:47,480 one of the things that we are preparing for a which is a little 839 00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:48,610 bit alarming is there. 840 00:39:48,610 --> 00:39:52,700 Niger influx of climate refugees to the northwest, 841 00:39:52,700 --> 00:39:55,400 city officials tell us that they're expecting you know the 842 00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:58,300 population in Portland for example to increased by several hundred 843 00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:00,230 thousand in the coming decades. 844 00:40:00,230 --> 00:40:05,710 So I think you know Californian dried up and continues to drag. 845 00:40:05,710 --> 00:40:09,420 We probably will see quite a few people moving north from 846 00:40:09,420 --> 00:40:12,040 California wetter climates. 847 00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:18,150 Is it problematic how climate change out with regard to I I don't 848 00:40:18,150 --> 00:40:20,900 fully understand what what what what you mean by that question can 849 00:40:20,900 --> 00:40:21,370 be retrained. 850 00:40:22,190 --> 00:40:22,920 Well, 851 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:25,880 it's just that you know the old story about the elephant people 852 00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:26,290 come up. 853 00:40:26,290 --> 00:40:29,100 The elephant in one pulls the tail on says that's what an elf. 854 00:40:29,100 --> 00:40:31,920 It looks like the other one grabs a new year and says that's what 855 00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:34,620 the often looks like climate change is kind of like that, 856 00:40:34,620 --> 00:40:38,560 you know you have people who see and experiencing so differently 857 00:40:38,690 --> 00:40:42,450 right around them and yet they're supposed to all unite somehow 858 00:40:42,670 --> 00:40:45,470 and demand an overall great big solution. 859 00:40:46,470 --> 00:40:46,770 Well, 860 00:40:46,770 --> 00:40:51,000 I mean I think that polls suggest that a majority of Americans do 861 00:40:51,290 --> 00:40:53,550 think that the climate crisis. 862 00:40:53,550 --> 00:40:57,570 The areas it's happening and they want to see action taken on it, 863 00:40:57,570 --> 00:40:59,770 regardless of how it manifests in their region. 864 00:40:59,770 --> 00:41:03,030 I think people are increasingly alarmed and are increasingly 865 00:41:03,190 --> 00:41:06,130 wanting to see elected official take action. 866 00:41:06,130 --> 00:41:09,570 Unfortunately our elected officials there you know largely 867 00:41:09,850 --> 00:41:12,260 following the money and most of the money is with the club 868 00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:16,020 brothers and the other oil companies so they're listening to them 869 00:41:16,070 --> 00:41:20,260 and not to that the American people but at least at the moment you 870 00:41:20,260 --> 00:41:23,630 know this is one reason why we need better campaign finance laws 871 00:41:23,690 --> 00:41:24,420 in this country. 872 00:41:24,420 --> 00:41:28,540 But I think what we come to the conclusion here at the Center for 873 00:41:28,540 --> 00:41:32,150 a sustainable economy is that working at the city level working at 874 00:41:32,170 --> 00:41:32,830 the state level, 875 00:41:32,830 --> 00:41:35,810 you can get a lot more done than you can trying to work in 876 00:41:35,890 --> 00:41:38,540 Washington DC things are very broken and Washington, 877 00:41:38,540 --> 00:41:41,210 but you can actually affect policy at the state level, 878 00:41:41,210 --> 00:41:44,290 and eventually hopefully MPs that into some sort. 879 00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:45,360 National strategy. 880 00:41:45,820 --> 00:41:45,970 Yeah. 881 00:41:46,100 --> 00:41:47,110 That's a great point, 882 00:41:47,110 --> 00:41:50,400 are you getting re-energized by regional activism on the west 883 00:41:50,470 --> 00:41:54,400 coast versus the politics of living and working in Washington DC. 884 00:41:54,770 --> 00:41:55,770 Oh yes, 885 00:41:55,770 --> 00:41:57,020 yes. 886 00:41:57,020 --> 00:42:01,020 You know and a hit lots and lots of exclamation points after that 887 00:42:01,530 --> 00:42:06,380 statement I I'm so inspired by and many of the young people that 888 00:42:06,380 --> 00:42:10,370 retirees so level of engagement here in the northwest around the 889 00:42:10,370 --> 00:42:14,730 issue of climate change is so broad and persons here and so 890 00:42:14,930 --> 00:42:16,050 energized. 891 00:42:16,050 --> 00:42:20,720 It's really inspiring to see a lot of people hurt you know just 892 00:42:20,970 --> 00:42:25,720 put their careers completely on hold and are doing nothing but 893 00:42:25,820 --> 00:42:27,600 working on this climate crisis, 894 00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:28,230 one of the people. 895 00:42:28,230 --> 00:42:31,790 That's leading local 350 chapter here in Portland. 896 00:42:31,790 --> 00:42:35,570 It's the former Andy who just decided this was, 897 00:42:35,570 --> 00:42:38,890 this is where she needed to spend her time and energy. 898 00:42:38,890 --> 00:42:41,780 I know a lot of people that have dealt with either early 899 00:42:41,780 --> 00:42:46,640 retirement or living very frugally so that they can devote a 900 00:42:46,670 --> 00:42:50,500 significant amount of time to working on the the fighting at the 901 00:42:50,500 --> 00:42:52,650 fossil fuel industry here in Oregon. 902 00:42:52,650 --> 00:42:53,640 So it's, 903 00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:57,960 it's both inspiring encourages me to work even harder whereas back 904 00:42:57,960 --> 00:42:58,510 in Washington, 905 00:42:58,510 --> 00:42:59,150 DC. 906 00:42:59,150 --> 00:43:03,080 We just feel that no matter how much you through your head against 907 00:43:03,140 --> 00:43:05,860 that that wall you just keeps Nash. 908 00:43:05,860 --> 00:43:09,910 You know how to go through expense and it wasn't going to budge. 909 00:43:09,910 --> 00:43:12,030 But things do actually get done it Thursday. 910 00:43:13,250 --> 00:43:16,860 I wonder if there's a story or experience beyond that you think 911 00:43:16,890 --> 00:43:20,290 could help raise our listeners to an even greater move into 912 00:43:20,350 --> 00:43:21,520 climate activism. 913 00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:23,030 Well, 914 00:43:23,030 --> 00:43:27,470 I mean I think the climate crisis you you know you've covered it 915 00:43:27,500 --> 00:43:28,110 so well, 916 00:43:28,110 --> 00:43:31,730 especially in your recent shows with climate psychologists and 917 00:43:31,850 --> 00:43:37,360 others talking about the ways in which we turn away from just how 918 00:43:37,460 --> 00:43:38,960 serious it is, 919 00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:40,910 it cannot have that result, 920 00:43:40,910 --> 00:43:45,490 but it can also when you are working in coalition with others I 921 00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:49,350 what I found is that the people that end up coming out to join 922 00:43:49,380 --> 00:43:52,720 this coalitions are some of the best members of our society and 923 00:43:52,830 --> 00:43:56,150 mean you know just smart committed, 924 00:43:56,150 --> 00:43:56,900 funny, 925 00:43:56,900 --> 00:43:58,100 creative, 926 00:43:58,100 --> 00:44:01,690 and these are the kinds of people that I would want to have. 927 00:44:01,690 --> 00:44:04,110 By my side fighting any kind of battle. 928 00:44:04,110 --> 00:44:08,480 So I encourage people that are in any way feeling defeated by this 929 00:44:08,660 --> 00:44:13,710 crisis turn that sort of intention to mourn into an into an 930 00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:18,120 organizing intention and to really stick out like-minded folks 931 00:44:18,230 --> 00:44:22,060 because they will energize you and keep you going in the darkest 932 00:44:22,060 --> 00:44:26,700 hours and a lot of us are feeling the grief around. 933 00:44:26,700 --> 00:44:28,700 I know I felt it for quite some time, 934 00:44:28,700 --> 00:44:29,930 but there is, 935 00:44:29,930 --> 00:44:34,630 there are signs that people are really beginning to get it and I 936 00:44:34,700 --> 00:44:39,020 really getting mobilized for example and working with the National 937 00:44:39,430 --> 00:44:42,750 Unitarian General Assembly that's gathering in Portland and 6,000 938 00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:46,390 members of the Unitarian coming from all over the United States 939 00:44:46,410 --> 00:44:49,970 and they'll be focused exclusively on those climate change and 940 00:44:49,970 --> 00:44:53,760 also how best to work in solidarity with native Americans in 941 00:44:53,850 --> 00:44:55,630 facing down this crisis. 942 00:44:55,630 --> 00:44:57,060 It's very exciting. 943 00:44:57,060 --> 00:45:01,650 It feels like we are going to go back to our home communities and 944 00:45:01,690 --> 00:45:03,660 really commit to respond. 945 00:45:03,660 --> 00:45:06,810 In fact there is a website commit to respond and people were going 946 00:45:06,810 --> 00:45:10,460 to be asked to do something along the same lines of what your last 947 00:45:10,490 --> 00:45:14,800 guest asked us to do which is to mobilize towards a World War 2 948 00:45:14,830 --> 00:45:18,720 type mobilization to save you know I think a lot of us recognize 949 00:45:18,720 --> 00:45:22,790 if that's what's required to swim time and we need all of us to be 950 00:45:22,870 --> 00:45:26,440 calling for the same thing both for our economy and for our planet 951 00:45:26,610 --> 00:45:29,050 if were gonna stop this monster in time. 952 00:45:29,580 --> 00:45:29,760 Here. 953 00:45:29,850 --> 00:45:34,410 Our guest Washington hosted the environmental program for 8 years 954 00:45:34,410 --> 00:45:38,380 on the Pacifica Radio network now she's bounced between regional 955 00:45:38,500 --> 00:45:42,550 activism on the West Coast continuing watch over national and 956 00:45:42,580 --> 00:45:44,740 international climate developments. 957 00:45:44,740 --> 00:45:48,080 She is the director of climate and the energy program at the 958 00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:52,370 Center for sustainable economy definitely where the best places to 959 00:45:52,370 --> 00:45:54,240 follow your ongoing work. 960 00:45:54,820 --> 00:45:59,620 Sustainable dash economy of our website and we are getting on 961 00:45:59,930 --> 00:46:01,680 climate and energy program up and running. 962 00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:05,580 There were very excited about a new initiative that you can see an 963 00:46:05,580 --> 00:46:08,870 update on shortly called climate response. 964 00:46:08,870 --> 00:46:12,600 We have a preliminary paper up there and we'll be posting a lot of 965 00:46:12,620 --> 00:46:18,170 our activity on Algerian and other oil and gas and coal exports in 966 00:46:18,170 --> 00:46:19,320 the Pacific Northwest, 967 00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:21,710 we've hired a new political director. 968 00:46:21,710 --> 00:46:23,760 You can join our activist network there, 969 00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:28,200 and we were poured engaging with anyone who wants to preserve what 970 00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:31,420 we call that in green line here in the Pacific Northwest them 971 00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:33,350 these massive fossil fuel. 972 00:46:33,610 --> 00:46:33,870 Well, 973 00:46:33,870 --> 00:46:34,280 from going. 974 00:46:35,020 --> 00:46:35,350 Great. 975 00:46:35,350 --> 00:46:39,100 So listeners just Google center for sustainable economy or look 976 00:46:39,100 --> 00:46:42,400 for links in my blog at could shock.info Daphne. 977 00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:44,160 Thank you so much for joining us again, 978 00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:46,400 please keep in touch as you develop more stories. 979 00:46:46,860 --> 00:46:47,800 Thank you. 980 00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:51,970 And one last thing it it really as websites seemed odd or will 981 00:46:51,970 --> 00:46:55,100 take you right to absolutely and I do I will treat you, 982 00:46:55,100 --> 00:46:55,260 right. 983 00:46:55,590 --> 00:46:56,900 Activist network page. 984 00:46:57,150 --> 00:47:01,730 Beautiful scene.org I'm Alex Smith reporting for Radio Eco shark. 985 00:47:04,650 --> 00:47:08,940 This is Radio Eco shot made up your iPod or computer with tons of 986 00:47:08,970 --> 00:47:14,420 free green audio from our website at W W W.eco shock.org that's 987 00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:17,490 easy oil shock like electric shock.org. 988 00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:23,980 In the short time we have left. 989 00:47:23,980 --> 00:47:27,270 I'd like to pass on some quotes and notes from a deep and 990 00:47:27,270 --> 00:47:31,270 important talk from climate week at Harvard University Center for 991 00:47:31,270 --> 00:47:32,350 the environment, 992 00:47:32,350 --> 00:47:33,030 the speakers. 993 00:47:33,030 --> 00:47:37,240 Dr. James Anderson and the title is coupled feedback in the 994 00:47:37,240 --> 00:47:42,390 climate structure that set the timescale for irreversible change 995 00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:46,230 Arctic isotopes to stratospheric radicals. 996 00:47:46,230 --> 00:47:49,860 That's quite a bit and believe me he covers a lot this talk on 997 00:47:49,860 --> 00:47:54,400 April 8th 20-15 was part of a series of presentations I found this 998 00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:55,380 on video. 999 00:47:55,380 --> 00:47:59,080 Thanks to a tip from a radio equal shock listener and I'm so glad 1000 00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:00,280 I did. 1001 00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:02,040 The talk as Anderson tells us, 1002 00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:03,540 is a fairly high level. 1003 00:48:03,540 --> 00:48:06,510 A presentation of ongoing research into some important 1004 00:48:06,510 --> 00:48:10,180 developments in the climate Anderson covers a wide range of 1005 00:48:10,180 --> 00:48:11,040 science. 1006 00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:13,610 I can only get to a few points here, 1007 00:48:13,610 --> 00:48:14,270 for example, 1008 00:48:14,270 --> 00:48:18,350 research into past ages showed the stratosphere that upper level 1009 00:48:18,350 --> 00:48:22,360 of Earth's atmosphere above the weather was far wetter than today 1010 00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:24,680 , in past greenhouse ages. 1011 00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:28,450 The wording of the stratosphere should be happening now but until 1012 00:48:28,590 --> 00:48:31,350 very recently nobody knew how that could happen. 1013 00:48:31,350 --> 00:48:35,610 Now we do Anderson also points out a key difference between past 1014 00:48:35,720 --> 00:48:38,610 hothouse world and today this time around. 1015 00:48:38,610 --> 00:48:42,890 Humans have also injected chlorinated substances like ozone 1016 00:48:43,070 --> 00:48:47,160 destroying CFCs there were never there in the past ages and how 1017 00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:51,460 does that affect climate change as we'll hear from those opening 1018 00:48:51,460 --> 00:48:55,180 quote scientists are gaining new knowledge on changes we've made 1019 00:48:55,500 --> 00:48:56,790 that cannot be reversed, 1020 00:48:56,790 --> 00:49:00,910 at least not in any timescale that matters to humans here is Dr. 1021 00:49:00,910 --> 00:49:02,420 Anderson speaking at Harvard. 1022 00:49:03,180 --> 00:49:08,450 This is really research talk about 2 aspects of the climate 1023 00:49:08,450 --> 00:49:09,860 structure, 1024 00:49:09,860 --> 00:49:14,890 both of which are coupled through irreversible connective cycles 1025 00:49:15,220 --> 00:49:20,100 and so I'm gonna talk about experiments done 5 meters above the 1026 00:49:20,100 --> 00:49:24,770 surface and then experiments done 20 kilometers above the surface 1027 00:49:24,830 --> 00:49:27,320 and you'll see why those are linked, 1028 00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:31,540 but just in case I basketball over these things I want to 1029 00:49:31,670 --> 00:49:33,900 emphasize some points. 1030 00:49:33,900 --> 00:49:37,450 The first one is that this global climate structure is changing 1031 00:49:37,450 --> 00:49:42,280 far more rapidly than than we believe was possible even even 5 1032 00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:46,720 years ago and I'm gonna show some dominant examples of that the 1033 00:49:46,720 --> 00:49:50,820 next issue is the feedback in the climate structure because it 1034 00:49:50,820 --> 00:49:55,700 seeks feedback sits set the timescale for a reverse ability and 1035 00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:58,980 I'm gonna take a very brief tour through the climate system to 1036 00:49:58,980 --> 00:50:02,040 demonstrate how that functions now: 1037 00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:05,670 a look at the way in which developing technology provides direct 1038 00:50:05,730 --> 00:50:09,580 measurements for example of methane and carbon di-oxide ITA topic 1039 00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:10,900 Fox measurement. 1040 00:50:11,910 --> 00:50:15,910 Next we'll hear about how the fragile Arctic determined so much of 1041 00:50:15,910 --> 00:50:16,550 our weather. 1042 00:50:17,470 --> 00:50:22,600 Then I'm going to look at why these Cryer systems which are so 1043 00:50:22,720 --> 00:50:27,880 delicate because heat of fusion for waters so small that the 1044 00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:34,270 delicacy of of these Cryer systems in a cruel irony link into the 1045 00:50:34,270 --> 00:50:39,770 larger global climate structure and they exhibit inordinate 1046 00:50:39,770 --> 00:50:43,760 control over these global climate systems I'm I'm gonna touch very 1047 00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:48,130 briefly on this pale your record and as Brian talked about on on 1048 00:50:48,130 --> 00:50:54,250 Tuesday that the climate structure depends in in large measure on 1049 00:50:54,250 --> 00:50:58,620 the temperature gradient between the tropics in the polar regions 1050 00:50:58,620 --> 00:51:01,400 and during the EEOC, 1051 00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:04,200 there was a very little temperature difference between the tropics 1052 00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:09,470 and and and the polar regions and in that particular structure of 1053 00:51:09,470 --> 00:51:11,630 the stratosphere had to be wet. 1054 00:51:11,630 --> 00:51:12,440 There's very little 1055 00:51:13,970 --> 00:51:14,380 and fact. 1056 00:51:14,380 --> 00:51:14,840 I don't know, 1057 00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:15,160 Brian, 1058 00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:17,830 I don't think there's any possibility of having that claim a 1059 00:51:17,830 --> 00:51:20,710 structure without a Maurice stratosphere. 1060 00:51:20,710 --> 00:51:24,300 And as we'll see moisture entering the stratosphere today has a 1061 00:51:24,300 --> 00:51:27,240 very different connotation because it triggers catalytic cycles 1062 00:51:27,240 --> 00:51:30,010 involving chlorine in Bromley in that were not present during the 1063 00:51:30,030 --> 00:51:35,330 EEOC so also talk about you active of injection north of the 1064 00:51:35,470 --> 00:51:36,450 subtropical jet, 1065 00:51:36,450 --> 00:51:41,220 which as we saw from from Bryant brands talk is of a potential way 1066 00:51:41,220 --> 00:51:45,080 of transitioning from the current structure of the climate to one 1067 00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:49,450 in which there is a far smaller difference between in temperature 1068 00:51:49,510 --> 00:51:51,630 between the equator in the polar regions, 1069 00:51:51,630 --> 00:51:55,180 so is convicted injection of water, 1070 00:51:55,180 --> 00:52:00,440 it turned out to be unique over the US and it's coupled also to 1071 00:52:00,860 --> 00:52:04,810 any cyclonic flow over the US that that's created by the North 1072 00:52:04,810 --> 00:52:06,050 American monsoon. 1073 00:52:06,050 --> 00:52:10,460 And so we have this convicted injection into this anti cyclonic 1074 00:52:10,460 --> 00:52:11,800 motion, 1075 00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:17,190 which is a hoot demonic combination created by the dynamics. 1076 00:52:17,190 --> 00:52:21,930 But it has very strong good coupling into the catalytic chemical 1077 00:52:22,220 --> 00:52:23,480 structure of the stratosphere. 1078 00:52:24,260 --> 00:52:27,530 Note how Anderson stressed the point made again and again by our 1079 00:52:27,580 --> 00:52:31,190 guest scientist Paul Beckwith when explaining the new disruption 1080 00:52:31,190 --> 00:52:34,510 of weather in the northern hemisphere and that's the temperature 1081 00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:38,400 difference between the tropics in the polls as polar regions warm 1082 00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:41,540 up the difference is declining and the result is a slower and wave 1083 00:52:41,590 --> 00:52:45,390 your jet stream and some really strange weather for all of us in 1084 00:52:45,410 --> 00:52:48,190 the northern world as a side note, 1085 00:52:48,190 --> 00:52:51,370 Anderson explains why both the left and the right may support 1086 00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:55,890 further research into controversial geo engineering first he 1087 00:52:55,890 --> 00:52:58,860 refers to the National Research Council report on climate 1088 00:52:58,860 --> 00:53:02,360 engineering particularly solar radiation management. 1089 00:53:02,550 --> 00:53:06,730 The National Research Council just released a new report on 1090 00:53:06,730 --> 00:53:10,400 climate engineering particularly solar radiation management that 1091 00:53:11,250 --> 00:53:15,980 is being pushed actually in a bipartisan way because the right 1092 00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:21,370 would like to have solar radiation management so more fossil fuels 1093 00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:26,350 can be burned and the left believes that intruding in natural 1094 00:53:26,350 --> 00:53:31,070 systems like this is a very dangerous so research on the topic is 1095 00:53:31,100 --> 00:53:34,300 gaining bilateral support, 1096 00:53:34,300 --> 00:53:36,050 which is highly unusual these days. 1097 00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:38,800 Next we hear why James Anderson, 1098 00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:43,520 thinks global warming is so horribly wrong as a term to describe 1099 00:53:43,540 --> 00:53:44,950 the current climate shift. 1100 00:53:45,550 --> 00:53:45,830 All right, 1101 00:53:45,830 --> 00:53:50,590 so let me start with with a bias this this term global warming 1102 00:53:50,690 --> 00:53:53,040 applied to this problem. 1103 00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:57,200 It makes me shudder because 70% of the globe is covered by the 1104 00:53:57,200 --> 00:53:57,590 ocean, 1105 00:53:57,590 --> 00:53:59,780 with an average depth of 3500 meters, 1106 00:53:59,780 --> 00:54:02,460 and it has massive heat capacity, 1107 00:54:02,460 --> 00:54:06,400 so my mind most degenerate variable you can discusses mean global 1108 00:54:06,680 --> 00:54:10,540 temperature and it also carries a connotation of something that's 1109 00:54:10,540 --> 00:54:14,790 happening slow leak you know one degree centigrade per century 1110 00:54:15,110 --> 00:54:19,540 doesn't carry a huge amount of political imperative behind it. 1111 00:54:19,540 --> 00:54:22,530 It also carries the connotation that you can watch think slowly 1112 00:54:22,530 --> 00:54:23,720 change and if you don't like, 1113 00:54:23,720 --> 00:54:28,630 if you can just slow down the release of carbon dioxide and return 1114 00:54:28,630 --> 00:54:32,270 to the condition and nothing could be further from the truth is, 1115 00:54:32,270 --> 00:54:32,800 as we'll see. 1116 00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:37,460 So I always avoid the term and I cringe every time I hear it. 1117 00:54:38,140 --> 00:54:40,980 We'll never have time to get to all the great science in the stock 1118 00:54:40,980 --> 00:54:42,610 . But I do want you to hear this. 1119 00:54:43,270 --> 00:54:46,500 The next point involves these methane clatter it's either of these 1120 00:54:46,540 --> 00:54:52,490 beautiful structures ice cages within which nature inserts methane 1121 00:54:52,490 --> 00:54:58,320 produced anaerobic by decomposition of organic material and in its 1122 00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:02,430 and it's chirpy that's driving this entirely because it nature of 1123 00:55:02,490 --> 00:55:06,490 course abhors a vacuum and with stuff molecules and every possible 1124 00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:12,960 nook and cranny in order to engage the inclusion of 1125 00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:17,640 energy states and it turns out that methane 5th beautifully into 1126 00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:23,560 these water cages and this is ubiquitous Klatten nothing rates 1127 00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:28,060 contain about 3 times the chemical energy of all known fossil fuel 1128 00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:30,240 reserves include coal, 1129 00:55:30,240 --> 00:55:34,860 petroleum natural gas and they reside not only in the surface 1130 00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:37,090 soils of Siberia northern Alaska but also 1131 00:55:38,620 --> 00:55:42,200 they're ubiquitous across the ocean basins this was pulled up off 1132 00:55:42,240 --> 00:55:46,960 the west coast of about 100m than it is touch of magic to it and 1133 00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:51,780 it it ignites but the numbers as Steve, 1134 00:55:51,780 --> 00:55:53,420 what's the point pointed out, 1135 00:55:53,420 --> 00:55:55,290 are actually quite concerning. 1136 00:55:55,290 --> 00:56:00,600 So here we plot the CO2 emissions from fossil-fuel burning in gig 1137 00:56:00,660 --> 00:56:05,770 tons of carbon per year yet to convert back from CO2 but canonical 1138 00:56:05,950 --> 00:56:10,320 representation is and in carbon per vehicle because of that's 1139 00:56:10,390 --> 00:56:16,310 typically how calibrated so 1990 have about 6 again get tons of of 1140 00:56:16,450 --> 00:56:20,080 carbon was added to the atmosphere by fossil-fuel burning, 1141 00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:24,770 and that was basically a textbook number for for many many years, 1142 00:56:24,770 --> 00:56:26,080 but in 2000, 1143 00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:33,010 it started to take off and when the 2007 IPCC report came out. 1144 00:56:33,010 --> 00:56:34,740 These were the release than area. 1145 00:56:34,740 --> 00:56:38,240 This was the worst possible cases up a red wine, 1146 00:56:38,240 --> 00:56:38,700 and of course, 1147 00:56:38,700 --> 00:56:42,150 we've exceeded that of every year. 1148 00:56:42,150 --> 00:56:46,640 The subsequent to to 2007 but the key point is that just half a 1149 00:56:46,650 --> 00:56:50,310 percent of the labor while carbon in the Earth's surface soils, 1150 00:56:50,310 --> 00:56:55,540 of the North Slope of of Alaska and Siberia just half a percent 1151 00:56:55,610 --> 00:56:59,440 release rate per year gives us around 89 tons per year, 1152 00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:02,860 which doubles the carbon added to the atmosphere by all 1153 00:57:03,240 --> 00:57:05,560 fossil-fuel burning worldwide. 1154 00:57:05,560 --> 00:57:10,440 And so this constitutes for the next exhibit for feedback. 1155 00:57:10,700 --> 00:57:13,730 Anderson gives the example of a class 3 pulled up off the west 1156 00:57:13,790 --> 00:57:16,410 coast from a depth of about 100 meters, 1157 00:57:16,410 --> 00:57:19,190 that could be ignited with old match. 1158 00:57:19,190 --> 00:57:19,470 Well, 1159 00:57:19,470 --> 00:57:22,830 we didn't get to the strange way chlorinated substances playback 1160 00:57:22,830 --> 00:57:26,540 on other climate feedback in the atmosphere plus and this is a 1161 00:57:26,540 --> 00:57:27,630 spoiler alert. 1162 00:57:27,630 --> 00:57:31,110 Scientists have discovered a way the stratosphere can become 1163 00:57:31,110 --> 00:57:35,650 wetter as it did in past greenhouse worlds many many hours flying 1164 00:57:35,650 --> 00:57:38,960 around the world found the stratosphere has the same low amount of 1165 00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:40,440 water vapor. 1166 00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:42,290 But in a kink in the system. 1167 00:57:42,290 --> 00:57:45,900 A collision of weather factors over the continental United States 1168 00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:50,430 creates an almost unique kind of heat funnel that does inject more 1169 00:57:50,430 --> 00:57:52,460 water into the stratosphere. 1170 00:57:52,460 --> 00:57:56,410 There are several other sites like that Anderson says they have 1171 00:57:56,410 --> 00:58:00,370 the mechanism that will wet down the stratosphere over time, 1172 00:58:00,370 --> 00:58:03,800 as I say there's a huge range of cutting science in the stock by 1173 00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:04,950 James Anderson. 1174 00:58:04,950 --> 00:58:08,400 Some of it is a little difficult for the lay person to understand 1175 00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:10,650 , but most of it is very clear. 1176 00:58:10,650 --> 00:58:13,720 We learn of feedback switch make this developing climate shift 1177 00:58:14,180 --> 00:58:18,060 into a major geological event that cannot be reversed. 1178 00:58:18,060 --> 00:58:21,790 We have already gone over the climate cliff he tells us how far we 1179 00:58:21,930 --> 00:58:25,590 fall depends on whether we can rein in our fossil-fuel burning 1180 00:58:25,700 --> 00:58:29,970 emissions before they trigger much much larger carbon or methane 1181 00:58:29,970 --> 00:58:34,940 inputs from the previously frozen land and sea bed in the Arctic 1182 00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:38,940 find an easy link to this video presentation at Harvard University 1183 00:58:39,060 --> 00:58:43,670 April 8 2015 in my shell blog eco shock.info. 1184 00:58:43,670 --> 00:58:46,240 I'll also add my lengthy notes to the blog, 1185 00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:50,840 which includes a few links and explanations we've blown through 1186 00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:55,270 the time barrier again get all past programs as free MP3s from our 1187 00:58:55,270 --> 00:58:59,780 website at shock.org listen any time on the radio shock page on 1188 00:58:59,860 --> 00:59:01,990 sound cloud I'm Alex,