0:00:00.410,0:00:01.460
Do you think this is.

0:00:01.500,0:00:02.810
Maybe the ego shot.

0:00:02.850,0:00:03.060
Okay.

0:00:06.680,0:00:09.390
Welcome to Radio Eco shock this week,

0:00:09.390,0:00:13.030
we're going to investigate attempts [br]by the fossil fuel industry to

0:00:13.030,0:00:17.150
capture otherwise green thinking ports [br]in the Pacific Northwest of

0:00:17.150,0:00:21.450
the United States and Canada [br]to export carbon to Asia.

0:00:21.450,0:00:25.370
It's a battle you hardly hear about [br]citizens are lining up against

0:00:25.420,0:00:29.690
huge corporations with huge money [br]to fight off giant coal ports

0:00:29.950,0:00:34.720
liquefied natural gas ports even [br]propane ports if we commit to

0:00:34.720,0:00:38.830
that infrastructure we commit to [br]devastating climate change,

0:00:38.830,0:00:42.950
not to mention the explosive toxic [br]and polluting impacts of these

0:00:42.950,0:00:45.590
big projects on the Pacific coast.

0:00:45.590,0:00:49.960
It's species and its people will [br]first hear from activist Kevin

0:00:49.960,0:00:52.170
Walsh book reporting from Vancouver,

0:00:52.170,0:00:56.820
Canada and then from green radio host [br]and activist Daphne why from

0:00:56.930,0:00:57.470
Portland,

0:00:57.470,0:00:58.590
Oregon.

0:00:58.590,0:01:01.220
I'll wrap up with some new science [br]presented at a Harvard

0:01:01.220,0:01:05.710
University research talk Dr. James [br]Anderson presents why climate

0:01:05.710,0:01:06.790
change is coming,

0:01:06.790,0:01:11.040
much faster than anyone thought [br]possible and why it cannot be

0:01:11.040,0:01:15.650
reversed its eco shocking radio [br]I'm Alex Smith let's roll.

0:01:24.210,0:01:27.240
Multinational corporations would like [br]to turn the gorgeous port of

0:01:27.240,0:01:27.810
Vancouver,

0:01:27.810,0:01:32.230
Canada into another fossil fuel colony [br]after call port proposals

0:01:32.230,0:01:35.770
were blocked by a public outcry in [br]the American Pacific Northwest

0:01:36.070,0:01:39.290
they wanted to call out to Asia [br]through Vancouver there's an

0:01:39.290,0:01:42.990
active proposal to steer dirty [br]tar sands oil into hundreds of

0:01:43.010,0:01:46.730
tankers through Vancouver's scenic [br]inlets even liquid natural gas

0:01:46.730,0:01:50.740
is trying to use Vancouver as an [br]outlet we've reached activist

0:01:50.930,0:01:54.620
Kevin wash broken Vancouver he's [br]part of the group voters taking

0:01:54.620,0:01:58.730
action on climate change or veto [br]back Kevin welcome to Radio Rico

0:01:58.730,0:01:59.080
shock.

0:01:59.710,0:02:00.490
I think to be here.

0:02:01.150,0:02:04.360
Let's talk about call how big [br]is the export business from

0:02:04.360,0:02:04.870
Vancouver.

0:02:05.980,0:02:06.600
Well,

0:02:06.600,0:02:10.320
right now we have to fully functioning [br]courts one in North

0:02:10.360,0:02:14.950
Vancouver internal with which exports [br]exclusively be seen course

0:02:15.010,0:02:19.310
in the coup these and then Wes short [br]and so which is the biggest

0:02:19.310,0:02:22.980
coal in Canada and depending on [br]you know who was exporting more

0:02:22.980,0:02:24.600
it's often the biggest of the business.

0:02:24.600,0:02:28.350
Call for North America Neptune exports [br]around you know they export

0:02:28.440,0:02:31.430
around 6 million tons of [br]call the year there,

0:02:31.430,0:02:35.440
they're trying to expand that to larger [br]large volumes sure exports

0:02:35.440,0:02:39.230
in the order 30 to 33 million tons [br]of call the year and about

0:02:39.510,0:02:42.810
about 8 million tons of that call [br]is US thermal coal from the

0:02:42.870,0:02:43.630
Tiber River Basin.

0:02:44.470,0:02:47.880
While so they truck at all or would [br]they train at all the way up

0:02:48.000,0:02:49.220
from Wyoming.

0:02:49.220,0:02:49.960
I guess it is.

0:02:50.050,0:02:50.850
It is in there.

0:02:50.850,0:02:56.970
So it comes on Warren Buffett's [br]be NSF railroad up through semi

0:02:57.780,0:03:00.850
White Rock Crescent Beach all on [br]the water through there and then

0:03:00.900,0:03:04.250
up through around Monday and over [br]2 cops who were shorter.

0:03:05.060,0:03:06.710
Why to using American call for.

0:03:07.040,0:03:07.140
Well,

0:03:07.140,0:03:07.440
that's,

0:03:07.440,0:03:08.940
that's a good question their hair.

0:03:08.940,0:03:12.890
They were plans there were plans [br]for 6 coal ports on the US West

0:03:12.890,0:03:15.850
Coast is recently you know [br]3 or 4 years ago.

0:03:15.850,0:03:16.350
Yet,

0:03:16.350,0:03:19.340
although 2 of those projects have [br]either been completely have been

0:03:19.340,0:03:20.880
rejected or abandoned.

0:03:20.880,0:03:22.560
And the last 2.

0:03:22.560,0:03:25.750
The one in Oregon on the Columbia [br]River faces serious difficulties

0:03:25.870,0:03:29.780
because it's failed to receive keep [br]the last permanent through the

0:03:29.780,0:03:32.940
last project and the largest at [br]Cherry Point in Washington.

0:03:32.940,0:03:34.750
So just south of the border.

0:03:34.750,0:03:36.270
I'm also faces serious opposition,

0:03:36.270,0:03:39.120
including from the Lonnie nation [br]which is that right.

0:03:39.120,0:03:42.870
We reject this year after the so [br]public outcry public opposition

0:03:43.230,0:03:45.970
and really strong committee organizing [br]in the state has stopped

0:03:46.060,0:03:46.980
all these projects.

0:03:46.980,0:03:48.870
So that leaves DC.

0:03:48.870,0:03:51.150
You know it's sort of the backdoor.

0:03:51.150,0:03:55.470
But the dirty doormat for US call [br]on its way to Asia and so right

0:03:55.470,0:03:56.110
now there there.

0:03:56.110,0:03:59.860
They have been exporting this 7 million [br]tons a year for some time

0:03:59.860,0:04:03.390
70 million tons by way of comparison [br]the the Cherry Point

0:04:03.780,0:04:07.410
corporate proposal a delegation would [br]be about 48 million tons of

0:04:07.440,0:04:11.630
call here and there is this new proposal [br]to build a brand new coal

0:04:11.680,0:04:15.440
port on the fridge river in Surrey [br]export exclusively American

0:04:15.440,0:04:16.990
call 4 million times now,

0:04:16.990,0:04:17.970
probably more in the future.

0:04:18.690,0:04:19.190
Great.

0:04:19.190,0:04:23.010
So what problems do Coltrane [br]polls for local communities.

0:04:23.430,0:04:23.910
Well,

0:04:23.910,0:04:24.200
yeah,

0:04:24.200,0:04:24.490
that's a,

0:04:24.490,0:04:27.540
that's a good point you because [br]in a specially NBC and in Metro

0:04:27.590,0:04:30.130
they could because the other [br]support authority that has,

0:04:30.130,0:04:31.410
you know it's a federal agency.

0:04:31.410,0:04:32.490
It's,

0:04:32.490,0:04:32.970
it's sort of,

0:04:32.970,0:04:34.270
almost like a Crown corporation.

0:04:34.270,0:04:38.670
It's also regulator it has absolute [br]power over decision making on

0:04:38.670,0:04:42.730
Port Lands and that's by land basically [br]all along the waterline in

0:04:42.730,0:04:46.820
Metro Vancouver so they can approve [br]a coal port but they take no

0:04:46.820,0:04:50.410
responsibility for the external impacts [br]that generates in the when

0:04:50.410,0:04:54.070
you're mentioning now is key Coltrane [br]so-called trains going to

0:04:54.180,0:04:54.770
communities.

0:04:54.770,0:04:57.460
You know they're extremely loud and [br]they often travel at night and

0:04:57.690,0:05:00.830
the noise levels in these things [br]are over 100 decibels when the

0:05:00.960,0:05:03.550
but the way things are going [br]and that exceeds you know.

0:05:03.550,0:05:05.860
The World Health Organization says [br]nighttime noise levels should

0:05:05.860,0:05:09.420
be below 30 decibels for for young [br]people from the elderly for the

0:05:09.470,0:05:13.130
SEC others noisy also vibration and [br]you know that there's problems

0:05:13.130,0:05:16.930
and White Rock with the the cliff [br]faces slumping because of the

0:05:16.930,0:05:17.810
vibration.

0:05:17.810,0:05:19.660
There's also a lot of concern [br]over called us,

0:05:19.660,0:05:21.990
do you know we don't know how much [br]called us is lost in these

0:05:22.020,0:05:25.590
trains and we don't know what the [br]health impacts of law term

0:05:25.970,0:05:29.920
exposure to low levels of particular [br]are from the dust.

0:05:29.920,0:05:30.900
So that's an issue.

0:05:30.900,0:05:31.530
The biggest one,

0:05:31.530,0:05:33.070
the biggest concerns a diesel exhaust.

0:05:33.070,0:05:33.480
We know,

0:05:33.480,0:05:36.830
diesel exhaust is a carcinogen and [br]if a particular discrimination

0:05:37.610,0:05:40.480
and trains run you know within a [br]climate of a number of schools

0:05:40.480,0:05:42.450
and daycare senior centers,

0:05:42.450,0:05:45.760
they're already running now and [br]the planet it run more them so

0:05:46.280,0:05:47.890
people are rightly concerned [br]about always look.

0:05:48.980,0:05:52.710
How have activist raised Vancouver's [br]dirty coal profile in the

0:05:52.710,0:05:53.420
media there.

0:05:54.030,0:05:54.260
Yeah,

0:05:54.260,0:05:54.870
it's been,

0:05:54.870,0:05:56.110
it's been increasing process.

0:05:56.110,0:06:00.240
You know it well and in the fall [br]of 2012 a community member in

0:06:00.330,0:06:03.850
Surrey told me about these 2 proposals [br]for the expansion at

0:06:03.870,0:06:07.840
Neptune and the new call for answer [br]it for his 3 dogs and when I

0:06:07.840,0:06:08.570
look at the numbers,

0:06:08.570,0:06:11.800
if you added up all the proposed [br]capacity if all of that call is

0:06:11.900,0:06:12.660
exported.

0:06:12.660,0:06:14.710
It will be more global warming pollution,

0:06:14.710,0:06:16.390
then you know the Northern [br]Gateway pipeline.

0:06:16.390,0:06:17.440
It's a huge,

0:06:17.440,0:06:18.440
huge issue,

0:06:18.440,0:06:20.890
but it's all piecemeal and [br]it was under the radar.

0:06:20.890,0:06:25.920
So over the past 2.5 years we've [br]managed to raise the profile

0:06:26.060,0:06:29.710
immensely our organization and group [br]based in Surrey called even

0:06:29.830,0:06:33.240
call in dog within this year than [br]others it it's process of

0:06:33.240,0:06:35.700
working with local governments one by one,

0:06:35.700,0:06:39.380
getting them on board about the [br]issues having them caller put

0:06:39.430,0:06:42.850
forward motions calling for you know [br]proper public assessment or

0:06:43.870,0:06:48.080
health risk assessments of these [br]projects and we've actually

0:06:48.540,0:06:52.400
presented before Metro Vancouver and [br]the region eventually opposed

0:06:52.470,0:06:56.760
this Surrey outright various House [br]leaders you know climate

0:06:56.790,0:07:00.370
scientists leaders have all come out [br]saying their post in this for

0:07:00.370,0:07:04.070
everything from the BC nurses' union [br]to you then see credit union

0:07:04.070,0:07:08.140
to the fishermen's union too you [br]know to groups of said this is a

0:07:08.140,0:07:08.800
bad idea.

0:07:08.800,0:07:10.080
So you know,

0:07:10.080,0:07:12.780
we've held various rallies and events [br]and we've presented at the

0:07:12.780,0:07:14.610
Port Authority AGM and it's,

0:07:14.610,0:07:16.120
it's really a simple issue,

0:07:16.120,0:07:19.320
you know we're saying the Port Authority [br]can't make decisions that

0:07:19.320,0:07:22.200
affect our future as a region without [br]including Arsenal's decision

0:07:22.700,0:07:28.240
and they're an extremely arrogant [br]and remote organization so that

0:07:28.290,0:07:31.060
you know that the contrast is is [br]so stark that I think the media

0:07:31.160,0:07:33.820
understand this in the broader public [br]gets that you know you can't

0:07:34.120,0:07:37.330
do you think this anymore it's it's [br]you now in the 19th century

0:07:37.400,0:07:40.070
may not you know captains [br]of industry where we're,

0:07:40.070,0:07:41.330
we're a democratic society.

0:07:42.260,0:07:42.480
You know,

0:07:42.480,0:07:45.710
NASA scientist James Hansen famously [br]was arrested protesting

0:07:45.710,0:07:47.790
mountaintop removal for coal,

0:07:47.790,0:07:51.010
but in Vancouver I was tracked [br]east Simon Fraser University

0:07:51.010,0:07:54.130
professor and world energy expert [br]marked a card was arrested

0:07:54.300,0:07:55.860
blocking a coal train.

0:07:55.860,0:07:58.600
So it sounds like you are getting [br]significant by in there.

0:07:58.980,0:07:59.880
Yeah,

0:07:59.880,0:08:04.320
it's a pretty compelling story because [br]it's a very stark one you

0:08:04.320,0:08:07.260
know we know that we need to radically [br]reduce the use of fossil

0:08:07.320,0:08:09.870
fuels to avoid dangerous climate change,

0:08:09.870,0:08:13.230
and it's the one study after another [br]is coming out saying that you

0:08:13.230,0:08:14.470
know we could probably burn a bit more.

0:08:14.470,0:08:15.690
The oil and bit more a gas.

0:08:15.730,0:08:18.420
But we absolutely can't burn more coal.

0:08:18.420,0:08:21.210
You know 80% or more remain on the ground.

0:08:21.210,0:08:24.700
If women avoid blowing past any [br]sort of faith thresholds for

0:08:24.880,0:08:28.250
climate change and if that's the [br]case and I and I believe it's

0:08:28.300,0:08:28.690
true bits,

0:08:28.690,0:08:29.730
and I mean I've read,

0:08:29.730,0:08:32.830
then there is simply no valid argument [br]for building a new Cold War

0:08:32.980,0:08:35.510
anywhere in the world could when [br]she it they're gonna want you

0:08:35.540,0:08:36.010
that race.

0:08:36.010,0:08:38.900
So it's very black and white from [br]you know many things are in life

0:08:38.900,0:08:40.240
, but this is very black and white.

0:08:40.240,0:08:41.670
A new Cold War in Surrey.

0:08:41.670,0:08:42.640
It's a bad idea.

0:08:42.640,0:08:46.470
US thermal coal exports through measuring [br]Hoover is a bad idea and

0:08:46.470,0:08:49.180
it's something that we're standing [br]up and saying no to thing I

0:08:49.180,0:08:49.990
don't think this is right.

0:08:50.740,0:08:54.080
Trying to stop fossil fuel exports [br]is like playing the game

0:08:54.160,0:08:56.060
whack-a-mole you find one project,

0:08:56.060,0:08:59.520
then another one pops up like the [br]recent proposal to ship out

0:08:59.720,0:09:03.820
liquid natural gas via the historic [br]Fraser River tell us what's

0:09:03.910,0:09:04.600
happening there.

0:09:04.970,0:09:05.200
Well,

0:09:05.200,0:09:06.920
that's another at another [br]interesting thing,

0:09:06.920,0:09:07.670
I mean you know it,

0:09:07.670,0:09:09.240
what's kind of most interesting [br]about this,

0:09:09.240,0:09:09.420
you know,

0:09:09.420,0:09:12.150
I guess I should say most frustrating [br]is that there's no,

0:09:12.150,0:09:15.350
there's no real effort by government [br]to make people aware of these

0:09:15.400,0:09:18.860
things you know I literally stumbled [br]across this proposal because

0:09:18.860,0:09:22.740
I was on the BBC if I'm an assessment [br]project or office website,

0:09:22.740,0:09:26.600
and there's a new proposal recently [br]posted 4 from this US company

0:09:26.600,0:09:30.450
Westpac midstream to build an LNG [br]terminal on the afraid and if

0:09:30.450,0:09:31.710
you know where to look if you go there,

0:09:31.710,0:09:35.180
you can see that and you can make [br]comment but if you don't know.

0:09:35.180,0:09:37.330
You know I gonna find out and the [br]government doesn't go along the

0:09:37.330,0:09:40.990
Fraser and you know put up things [br]on billboards or or on telephone

0:09:41.060,0:09:41.550
poles and say,

0:09:41.550,0:09:42.910
are you concerned about this.

0:09:42.910,0:09:45.600
The federal government has given [br]us from you know this so that

0:09:45.630,0:09:49.520
this when they realize the certain [br]size they have to let the BBC

0:09:49.640,0:09:51.710
in federal government's now and the [br]government have to decide to

0:09:51.710,0:09:54.310
do an assessment or not so auto.

0:09:54.310,0:09:58.130
You know it's wisdom on May said [br]okay will accept comments from

0:09:58.130,0:10:01.640
the public until June 11 to help us [br]decide if we should even do an

0:10:01.640,0:10:02.870
assessment or not,

0:10:02.870,0:10:06.040
and furthermore if we should substitute [br]the provincial assessment

0:10:06.170,0:10:07.460
for the federal one.

0:10:07.460,0:10:09.550
So if you didn't go to the sea.

0:10:09.550,0:10:10.800
If they see a website.

0:10:10.800,0:10:14.240
The Canadian run of 72 website and [br]see that notice you would never

0:10:14.290,0:10:16.680
even known that there is a comment period.

0:10:16.680,0:10:20.160
It's very frustrating because you [br]know he's a big things and we

0:10:20.160,0:10:23.070
all need to have a say so ways [br]to back up to the proposal.

0:10:23.390,0:10:26.510
This is a plan for a brand new LNG [br]terminal on the Fraser River in

0:10:26.510,0:10:30.370
Delta BC next in the cement plants [br]Federer across the river and

0:10:30.370,0:10:33.780
just up just upstream from if you [br]know Richmond this sort of all

0:10:34.440,0:10:37.800
water mania and a big movie complex [br]and all that sort of stuff.

0:10:37.800,0:10:42.660
It would see 120 LNG tankers a year [br]and 90 L&G barges here and

0:10:42.680,0:10:45.500
going up and down the Fraser [br]River now in comparison.

0:10:45.500,0:10:48.840
Some people are somewhat more aware [br]of this proposal for wood

0:10:48.940,0:10:52.160
fiber LNG in squalor should have [br]a lot of press this proposal

0:10:52.410,0:10:56.220
Fraser will be 1.5 times as [br]large also in comparison.

0:10:56.220,0:11:00.430
The big Petronas Pacific Energy LNG [br]project in Prince Rupert would

0:11:00.430,0:11:01.670
be about 7 times larger,

0:11:01.670,0:11:03.660
so this is a fairly small project,

0:11:03.660,0:11:06.540
but it was they'll see a lot of [br]LNG tankers on the river the

0:11:06.540,0:11:08.630
proponent in this to me is typical bear.

0:11:08.630,0:11:11.450
You know the project summary description [br]and says we want a bogus

0:11:11.600,0:11:12.200
facility.

0:11:12.200,0:11:12.610
It's,

0:11:12.610,0:11:13.940
this is the footprint,

0:11:13.940,0:11:16.760
we're gonna look at an endangered [br]plants and archeological sites

0:11:16.760,0:11:18.720
and what not right here.

0:11:18.720,0:11:23.520
But once we sell that L&G and it [br]goes an LNG tanker it's someone

0:11:23.520,0:11:26.640
else's responsibility when I can [br]assess those risks a crazy.

0:11:26.640,0:11:29.280
You know that's absolutely crazy [br]and in the United States.

0:11:29.280,0:11:31.080
If you want to build an LNG terminal,

0:11:31.080,0:11:33.780
the Department of Homeland Security [br]and the Coast Guard require

0:11:33.890,0:11:37.580
you do connect a waterway suitability [br]assessment on the entire

0:11:37.910,0:11:41.170
tanker root out international [br]waters to a distance of 3.5

0:11:41.170,0:11:44.870
kilometers on each side because that's [br]how far you know I I think

0:11:44.870,0:11:50.070
that it cloud of be approaching travel [br]and still be explosive DC

0:11:50.240,0:11:51.020
that doesn't happen,

0:11:51.020,0:11:53.800
and there is no one asking [br]the fundamental questions.

0:11:53.800,0:11:54.490
The final question,

0:11:54.490,0:11:56.770
is it a good idea to go and [br]LNG terminal in the face.

0:11:56.770,0:11:57.000
Really.

0:11:57.000,0:12:00.060
They just simply must look and see [br]if this will endanger plants or

0:12:00.150,0:12:03.040
salmon or sturgeon at the [br]site of the facility.

0:12:03.040,0:12:06.140
It's a very narrow blinkered approach [br]to assessing these kinds of

0:12:06.140,0:12:06.530
projects.

0:12:07.020,0:12:10.820
Wait a minute you saying that a cloud [br]can come off of one of those

0:12:10.820,0:12:12.270
tankers if they were to leak.

0:12:12.270,0:12:12.690
There we go.

0:12:12.690,0:12:16.430
3.5 kilometers possibly on either [br]side of the river into an area

0:12:16.490,0:12:17.710
where millions of people live.

0:12:18.530,0:12:18.790
Yeah,

0:12:18.790,0:12:21.840
I know that's no okay so many [br]backup and and quite hot.

0:12:21.840,0:12:25.090
So in the United States there [br]there is a thing called Sandy

0:12:25.300,0:12:29.280
National Laboratory essay and DIA [br]and they conducted a study in

0:12:29.300,0:12:30.600
the mid 2000s that.

0:12:30.700,0:12:30.950
Said,

0:12:30.950,0:12:31.630
you know,

0:12:31.630,0:12:34.780
how are we going to assess the risks [br]from LNG tankers and and what

0:12:34.810,0:12:35.860
sort of garlands are you,

0:12:35.860,0:12:38.870
are we going to create seems so they said.

0:12:38.870,0:12:40.890
What's the worst case scenario.

0:12:40.890,0:12:41.030
Well,

0:12:41.030,0:12:44.150
the worst case scenario is you [br]know an intentional rupture of

0:12:44.150,0:12:49.090
containment of Ellen of all the [br]LNG vessels on a tanker from

0:12:49.150,0:12:51.450
something like a terrorist [br]attack or an explosion.

0:12:51.450,0:12:55.610
So in that worst case scenario what [br]hazards will be created and so

0:12:55.610,0:12:57.270
they said well within 5 kilometers.

0:12:57.270,0:12:57.570
You know,

0:12:57.570,0:13:01.340
everything would be burnt to a crisp [br]and and after 16 and I mean

0:13:01.440,0:13:04.780
you have burn hazards and and freezing [br]houses in these things and

0:13:04.780,0:13:05.920
he would decline over distance.

0:13:06.310,0:13:11.770
But if that cloud of LNG that is [br]free if Allen she didn't ignite

0:13:11.810,0:13:13.940
right away as it evaporate.

0:13:14.030,0:13:19.080
Soon turns to gas before dispersing [br]it can still be a risk of

0:13:19.170,0:13:21.860
producing a fireball up [br]to 3.5 kilometers away,

0:13:21.860,0:13:23.510
so for that worst case scenario,

0:13:23.510,0:13:27.040
we wouldn't require that L&G proponents [br]examine the risks all

0:13:27.110,0:13:29.720
along that 3 and half kilometer route [br]and we want to know if there

0:13:29.760,0:13:30.650
are people living there.

0:13:30.650,0:13:31.520
If there are,

0:13:31.520,0:13:33.540
you know if they're significant [br]infrastructure there.

0:13:33.540,0:13:34.870
If there are,

0:13:34.870,0:13:35.460
I know well,

0:13:35.460,0:13:38.930
sort of any sort of property or [br]public health and safety risks,

0:13:38.930,0:13:41.710
because you know that in the States [br]they say yet explicitly

0:13:41.710,0:13:43.440
examine the possibly of [br]a terrorist attack.

0:13:43.440,0:13:44.950
You've got a look at the [br]worst case scenario.

0:13:44.950,0:13:47.890
Don't see what could happen if one [br]of the things went badly wrong

0:13:48.420,0:13:51.290
while and with so that that's smart [br]to me you know you why you

0:13:51.290,0:13:54.520
wanna know what the risks are before [br]you privy sings before or

0:13:54.520,0:13:56.630
whoever prism in Canada,

0:13:56.630,0:13:59.860
there is no such requirement and [br]although looking at here is the

0:13:59.930,0:14:01.070
footprint of this facility.

0:14:01.070,0:14:01.860
And it's to me,

0:14:01.860,0:14:04.110
that's quite frankly because [br]you know I am,

0:14:04.110,0:14:06.610
I am no supporter of the [br]Harper government,

0:14:06.610,0:14:10.190
but I do know that they say that [br]the risk of terrorist threats

0:14:10.220,0:14:11.750
Israel on our soil.

0:14:11.750,0:14:11.900
Well,

0:14:11.900,0:14:14.640
if that's the case then why you [br]looking at the risks from

0:14:14.740,0:14:17.530
transporting an extremely volatile [br]substance in these battles

0:14:18.030,0:14:20.280
through highly populated [br]areas I just make sense.

0:14:21.260,0:14:21.560
Well,

0:14:21.560,0:14:22.430
Kevin washed brick.

0:14:22.430,0:14:25.780
We know there are quite a few environmentally [br]conscious voters in

0:14:25.780,0:14:28.600
the Vancouver region do you worry though,

0:14:28.600,0:14:33.620
that your work to stop these proposals [br]will push fossil fuels

0:14:33.850,0:14:36.950
further north along the coast to [br]swarms or to northern ports,

0:14:36.950,0:14:38.790
like Prince Rupert or killed a man.

0:14:39.080,0:14:40.250
That's events in question.

0:14:40.250,0:14:41.220
I don't think so,

0:14:41.220,0:14:43.980
I think you know those [br]projects in the north.

0:14:43.980,0:14:46.200
Local people they're gonna [br]make their own assessment,

0:14:46.200,0:14:49.070
I mean I know my thoughts are in terms [br]of the risks to the climate

0:14:49.330,0:14:53.000
from L&G interims of what groups [br]like the CCP in the pen.

0:14:53.000,0:14:56.840
The news you have figured out but [br]local populations are gonna

0:14:57.480,0:14:58.280
Broadway and assess.

0:14:58.320,0:15:01.220
The local rescue themselves and I [br]and I respect their ability to

0:15:01.220,0:15:03.970
do that and their and their interest [br]in the non-I think what's

0:15:03.970,0:15:06.600
going on here is that you know people [br]down here are very aware

0:15:06.750,0:15:10.260
that there are these big projects [br]proposed up north weather's L&G

0:15:11.060,0:15:13.790
you know it's been pipelines and [br]we often don't feel like we can

0:15:13.790,0:15:14.730
have any for say,

0:15:14.730,0:15:17.060
and in this kind of future for BC,

0:15:17.060,0:15:18.520
but in fact metro Vancouver.

0:15:18.520,0:15:22.630
We really are on the front lines [br]of the fossil fuel debate in

0:15:22.630,0:15:24.950
export debate because we have proposals [br]for the Kinder Morgan

0:15:24.990,0:15:25.640
pipeline,

0:15:25.640,0:15:27.660
we've got a proposal for a new coal ports.

0:15:27.660,0:15:31.940
Now we have a proposal for well for [br]the L&G Fraser and the LNG and

0:15:31.940,0:15:35.720
squeamish so people realize is that [br]there's a lot at stake here

0:15:35.770,0:15:38.030
and they are then it's more accessible,

0:15:38.030,0:15:40.360
it's here you know you can have more [br]to say you can get engaged in

0:15:40.360,0:15:40.800
the debate.

0:15:40.800,0:15:42.290
And you can learn more about it,

0:15:42.290,0:15:45.610
so I don't think it'll pushing the [br]way I think there's so many

0:15:46.010,0:15:49.840
companies trying to push for so [br]many projects at once that like

0:15:49.840,0:15:50.100
you said,

0:15:50.100,0:15:52.400
it's a bit of a lot more they're gonna [br]pop up where they feel like

0:15:52.400,0:15:53.580
there's a possibility.

0:15:54.110,0:15:57.240
Where editor group voters taking [br]action on climate change.

0:15:57.240,0:16:00.500
Find most of its support to young [br]people show up just older folks

0:16:00.570,0:16:01.950
tell us about your supporters.

0:16:02.140,0:16:02.900
That's,

0:16:02.900,0:16:03.180
yeah,

0:16:03.180,0:16:03.920
it's insane.

0:16:03.920,0:16:06.300
So you know most of our [br]work is done online,

0:16:06.300,0:16:09.950
really we we engage with the public [br]through you know you social

0:16:09.950,0:16:10.960
media.

0:16:10.960,0:16:12.050
When we do events,

0:16:12.050,0:16:14.240
I mean we always work with other [br]groups we do events too.

0:16:14.240,0:16:14.650
So it's,

0:16:14.650,0:16:17.330
it's hard to say who's coming from [br]where about it really is a

0:16:17.330,0:16:17.950
cross section,

0:16:17.950,0:16:20.650
there's a lot of older concerned [br]folks and there's also a lot of

0:16:20.650,0:16:22.790
young people we work a lot with [br]a group called Kids for climate

0:16:22.860,0:16:24.290
action on events that,

0:16:24.290,0:16:26.630
and they'd rather their sort [br]of a high school audience.

0:16:26.630,0:16:27.390
I think the.

0:16:27.390,0:16:30.510
I think the concern is widespread [br]view whether it's because you're

0:16:30.610,0:16:33.040
worried about you know the local [br]environmental whether you're

0:16:33.120,0:16:35.120
worried about your future.

0:16:35.120,0:16:38.500
There's something to be concerned [br]about your think I guess for all

0:16:38.500,0:16:38.860
ages.

0:16:39.370,0:16:41.160
And so the tack.

0:16:41.160,0:16:44.170
What do you think other communities [br]say in the United States or

0:16:44.250,0:16:47.840
Britain or elsewhere could learn [br]from the way you're group has

0:16:47.840,0:16:49.040
formed and operated.

0:16:49.920,0:16:50.350
Well,

0:16:50.350,0:16:51.480
interesting.

0:16:51.480,0:16:54.390
I think you know our our whole [br]focus is trying to create

0:16:54.420,0:16:56.830
opportunities for the public [br]to express their concern.

0:16:56.830,0:17:00.580
The government we train connected [br]off between climate policy and

0:17:00.660,0:17:05.260
fossil fuel exports that put climate [br]at risk because the climate

0:17:05.290,0:17:07.640
policy discussion are often pretty [br]abstract like the thing that's

0:17:07.700,0:17:09.830
happened recently with perhaps Harper [br]have been saying that they

0:17:09.940,0:17:14.400
agreed to eliminate fossil fuels [br]by 2100 well 84 years and now no

0:17:14.400,0:17:16.310
one's gonna be here is alive now and.

0:17:16.310,0:17:19.550
And that's just an absurd abstract [br]discussion we have real

0:17:19.550,0:17:22.070
products right here right now there [br]are threatening our climate.

0:17:22.070,0:17:23.170
So I think,

0:17:23.170,0:17:26.070
creating opportunities for the [br]public to engage in explicit

0:17:26.160,0:17:27.080
concerns are key.

0:17:27.080,0:17:30.270
And you know we've got a lot through [br]public commenting websites

0:17:30.340,0:17:32.940
like right now for the L&G think [br]we've set up a website called

0:17:33.500,0:17:37.880
real LNG hearings.org and that brings [br]together all the information

0:17:37.880,0:17:41.440
on the Fraser River LNG proposal [br]and there's a commenting tool.

0:17:41.440,0:17:44.500
Also you can send a message directly [br]to the federal and run a

0:17:44.500,0:17:45.060
minister,

0:17:45.060,0:17:46.330
it's easy to local government.

0:17:46.330,0:17:49.870
So my experience is that people care [br]and they want to take action

0:17:49.870,0:17:50.480
. You know,

0:17:50.480,0:17:53.690
they may think that they don't know [br]how or they don't know during

0:17:53.690,0:17:56.690
the time so you create an opportunity [br]put all the information.

0:17:56.690,0:17:58.110
One place that people want to act.

0:17:58.110,0:17:59.590
I guess just empowering people,

0:17:59.590,0:18:00.870
that's the key empowering people.

0:18:01.430,0:18:04.200
Can you give us your website address [br]or your Facebook page.

0:18:04.590,0:18:05.000
Sure.

0:18:05.000,0:18:09.740
Our website is BT ACC.org [br]that's a website.

0:18:09.740,0:18:10.530
But the key,

0:18:10.530,0:18:12.660
we're really focusing [br]right now and on LNG.

0:18:12.660,0:18:15.640
And so that's 3 real LNG hearings.org.

0:18:16.130,0:18:16.440
Great,

0:18:16.440,0:18:17.090
thank you so much.

0:18:17.090,0:18:20.000
I guess Kevin washed Brooke is [br]an activist in Vancouver,

0:18:20.000,0:18:20.690
Canada.

0:18:20.690,0:18:24.180
As part of the group voters taking [br]action on climate change.

0:18:24.180,0:18:25.200
I appreciate your time.

0:18:25.200,0:18:25.480
Kevin.

0:18:25.520,0:18:26.050
You're welcome.

0:18:26.050,0:18:26.200
Take.

0:18:28.710,0:18:29.280
We will.

0:18:29.950,0:18:32.170
You're listening to shot radio.

0:18:32.960,0:18:33.570
I don't worry.

0:18:35.250,0:18:39.070
I'm Alex meth at all their [br]vehicle shock.org.

0:18:40.890,0:18:44.590
What is happening on the US West Coast [br]where fossil fuel companies

0:18:44.590,0:18:47.250
raised export carbon to Asia.

0:18:47.250,0:18:49.760
Let's tune in with a long-time [br]friend of the environment.

0:18:49.760,0:18:53.490
Daphne why for 8 years [br]out of Washington DC,

0:18:53.490,0:18:54.010
Daphne,

0:18:54.010,0:18:57.300
host of the syndicated radio show [br]Earth beat on the Pacifica

0:18:57.510,0:19:01.150
network her articles have been published [br]by both mainstream and

0:19:01.270,0:19:03.880
alternative media now [br]Japanese in Portland,

0:19:03.880,0:19:04.660
Oregon.

0:19:04.660,0:19:08.250
As the director of the climate and [br]energy program at the Center

0:19:08.250,0:19:11.060
for sustainable economy at the same time,

0:19:11.060,0:19:14.890
she's an associate fellow at the [br]Institute for Policy Studies.

0:19:14.890,0:19:15.330
Daphne.

0:19:15.330,0:19:18.230
It's so good to hear your voice [br]again on Radio Echo shock,

0:19:18.230,0:19:18.940
welcome back.

0:19:19.370,0:19:20.090
Thanks so much.

0:19:20.090,0:19:21.260
Alex is going to be here.

0:19:22.070,0:19:26.240
You know I were just on post carbon [br]radio on K W M are in Northern

0:19:26.240,0:19:27.160
California with.

0:19:27.200,0:19:31.480
Bing Gong and current IOS it was [br]a wide-ranging talk I'd like in

0:19:31.480,0:19:34.940
this instance to drill down to [br]what's happening in Portland.

0:19:34.940,0:19:35.820
The state of Oregon,

0:19:35.820,0:19:37.460
maybe the Pacific Northwest.

0:19:37.460,0:19:40.910
When it comes to transporting fossil [br]fuels are you up for that.

0:19:41.820,0:19:42.400
I dream.

0:19:43.040,0:19:43.470
All right.

0:19:43.470,0:19:46.160
Why don't we start with Portland [br]what battles have been fought

0:19:46.160,0:19:49.260
their recently against becoming [br]a dirty carbon outlet.

0:19:50.670,0:19:50.920
Well,

0:19:50.920,0:19:54.560
one thing that people may not realize [br]is that not only Portland,

0:19:54.560,0:19:55.630
Oregon.

0:19:55.630,0:19:56.810
Barry hit city.

0:19:56.810,0:20:01.120
It also happened to be one of the [br]first cities in the first city

0:20:01.120,0:20:04.810
in the United States to put in place [br]a climate action plan back in

0:20:04.810,0:20:08.900
the early 1990s Portland decided that [br]it really needed to take the

0:20:08.900,0:20:12.530
climate crisis seriously an admirable,

0:20:12.530,0:20:16.750
the city had largely been ahead of [br]the curve for the rest of the

0:20:16.860,0:20:21.610
country and who has a reputation [br]intact was recognized by the

0:20:21.610,0:20:25.930
White House's so-called climate [br]championships last December,

0:20:25.930,0:20:30.840
despite its reputation or perhaps [br]in addition to that reputation.

0:20:30.840,0:20:36.470
The measure decided that it was going [br]to be a good idea to invite

0:20:36.690,0:20:40.950
one of the biggest tar sands pipeline [br]operators in the Canadian

0:20:41.340,0:20:45.210
out Penn Beantown Pipeline Corporation [br]to set up shop in

0:20:45.580,0:20:50.400
Portland's harbors and they wanted [br]to export propane from the

0:20:50.520,0:20:54.700
terminal here in Portland he welcomed [br]them with open arms.

0:20:54.700,0:21:00.130
A lot of us began to organize cried [br]foul and at the time of this

0:21:00.550,0:21:01.200
interview.

0:21:01.200,0:21:05.150
We seem to have one were reluctant [br]to completely declare victory

0:21:05.280,0:21:09.700
because this corporation have bottomless [br]pockets and is doing all

0:21:09.700,0:21:15.020
it can do you fight back but we we [br]need to campaign both based on

0:21:15.020,0:21:21.100
both safety issues climate issues [br]and we generated thousands of

0:21:21.100,0:21:26.600
letters and very creative involvement [br]from a wide array of folks

0:21:26.660,0:21:28.070
here in in the city,

0:21:28.070,0:21:33.540
including Rani basically first activists [br]and people taking over

0:21:33.570,0:21:38.100
City Council hearings and we finally [br]got our message across and it

0:21:38.100,0:21:42.380
appears that time you know it is [br]not going to be welcome anymore

0:21:42.590,0:21:44.340
in in the city of Portland.

0:21:44.340,0:21:48.000
We want to use this victory though [br]not just to say no one in our

0:21:48.040,0:21:49.440
backyard,

0:21:49.440,0:21:54.820
but also to alert people [br]to just how insane.

0:21:54.820,0:21:59.370
It is to be pushing forward with fossil [br]fuel infrastructure in the

0:21:59.460,0:22:00.790
Pacific Northwest.

0:22:00.790,0:22:05.450
They have been the imperative that [br]we begin to ratchet down our

0:22:05.610,0:22:07.420
overall greenhouse gas emissions.

0:22:07.420,0:22:08.440
Not only the northwest,

0:22:08.440,0:22:12.740
but globally and to draw attention [br]to the fact that the Pacific

0:22:12.740,0:22:17.030
Northwest right now is in the [br]crosshairs of the fossil fuel

0:22:17.030,0:22:17.610
industry.

0:22:17.610,0:22:23.130
They want to export 5 times the carbon [br]and is now being proposed

0:22:23.250,0:22:28.590
for the Keystone XL pipeline through [br]our reports in Oregon and

0:22:28.630,0:22:34.310
Washington is and very few people [br]are aware of just how serious

0:22:34.520,0:22:40.150
this however it is to our economy [br]to iron beautiful rivers and

0:22:40.150,0:22:40.820
lakes and

0:22:42.390,0:22:46.270
outside of the northwest of course [br]hero at the norms and trying to

0:22:46.330,0:22:50.670
take on one proposal after another [br]that comes down the pike.

0:22:50.670,0:22:53.780
So rather than just playing whack-a-mole [br]they which is sort of

0:22:53.880,0:22:56.370
what a lot of groups have been doing it,

0:22:56.370,0:23:00.590
you stop one project popped up [br]an unemployed we've decided to

0:23:00.590,0:23:06.140
declare a ban on all new fossil [br]fuel infrastructure starting in

0:23:06.140,0:23:10.610
Portland and then moving out to the [br]rest of Oregon and the rest of

0:23:10.610,0:23:15.930
the northwest and we should be getting [br]a hearing over the coming

0:23:15.930,0:23:21.800
year by city officials around this [br]call we want no fossil fuel

0:23:21.920,0:23:25.220
exports and no new fossil fuel [br]infrastructure in the city.

0:23:25.220,0:23:27.800
So that's our campaign and and [br]I think we have a pretty good

0:23:27.860,0:23:28.480
chance of winning.

0:23:29.170,0:23:29.390
Yeah,

0:23:29.390,0:23:30.830
it would be such a different story.

0:23:30.830,0:23:34.620
If you're exporting solar panels [br]in bulk or wind machines.

0:23:35.270,0:23:36.010
Sure,

0:23:36.010,0:23:36.340
yeah,

0:23:36.340,0:23:39.850
I mean we would love to be doing [br]something along those lines,

0:23:39.850,0:23:44.530
and in fact that's that's the vision [br]that Portland quite action

0:23:44.530,0:23:48.990
plan today called for which is you [br]know I get under way ahead of

0:23:48.990,0:23:53.230
the curve trying to push for by [br]Kabul and walkable cities could

0:23:53.370,0:23:56.780
drastically reducing greenhouse [br]gas emissions increasing public

0:23:56.890,0:23:57.590
transit.

0:23:57.590,0:23:59.740
So it just doesn't make sense.

0:23:59.740,0:24:03.700
We found that the emissions from [br]Justice Warren propane terminal

0:24:03.850,0:24:08.750
alone over several decades would be [br]larger than the entire city of

0:24:08.840,0:24:11.920
Portland's emissions if if our missions [br]were to continue to go

0:24:11.920,0:24:12.350
down.

0:24:12.350,0:24:16.640
So I just didn't make sense from [br]a climate action perspective to

0:24:16.680,0:24:18.940
be proceeding with this this terminal.

0:24:19.330,0:24:19.580
Right.

0:24:19.580,0:24:22.100
It's almost like changing your light [br]bulbs at home but along a

0:24:22.100,0:24:24.080
coal plant to be built next door.

0:24:24.080,0:24:25.540
So as you know.

0:24:25.540,0:24:28.470
Billionaire Warren Buffet is having [br]a hard time finding a place to

0:24:28.500,0:24:32.180
unload his call trains [br]for shipping to China,

0:24:32.180,0:24:36.120
what have you heard about new coal [br]ports in the Pacific Northwest

0:24:36.120,0:24:37.300
. Well,

0:24:37.300,0:24:37.550
you know,

0:24:37.550,0:24:41.710
there's been quite a few proposals [br]all export terminals in the

0:24:41.710,0:24:46.530
Pacific Northwest and almost all [br]of them have been defeated.

0:24:46.530,0:24:47.370
We have 2,

0:24:47.370,0:24:49.910
there are still on the table,

0:24:49.910,0:24:53.830
one in Long View Washington [br]and one in Cherry Point:

0:24:53.830,0:24:59.920
both are for over 40 million tons [br]of coal exports per year they

0:24:59.920,0:25:04.920
won in Cherry Point Washington is [br]on Native American land on the

0:25:04.980,0:25:06.530
only land and they are,

0:25:06.530,0:25:11.870
they are fighting and waging a very [br]serious battle against that

0:25:12.000,0:25:15.620
call export terminal because they [br]argue that it would violate

0:25:15.720,0:25:20.430
their treaties and would affect [br]their fisheries the other

0:25:20.430,0:25:25.140
proposals that have been tabled [br]by up and down the the Columbia

0:25:25.140,0:25:27.680
River have have been withdrawn,

0:25:27.680,0:25:31.400
essentially by the investors [br]over the past 5 years,

0:25:31.400,0:25:35.320
you may have to do with the fact that [br]call increasingly has become

0:25:35.460,0:25:37.580
less and less profitable,

0:25:37.580,0:25:41.470
we also suspect it has something [br]to do with the fact that these

0:25:41.550,0:25:47.860
very same terminal began to look [br]attractive for oil exports.

0:25:47.860,0:25:52.030
Soon as we get rid of a of a coal [br]terminal an oil terminal as

0:25:52.030,0:25:52.790
proposed,

0:25:52.790,0:25:56.860
in fact the largest oil terminal [br]in the entire United States is

0:25:56.890,0:26:00.630
being proposed right across the river [br]from Portland in the event

0:26:00.690,0:26:07.050
Koura Washington and that battle [br]is now being wedged between on

0:26:07.050,0:26:08.000
the one hand,

0:26:08.000,0:26:12.770
there's any plan for a major development [br]on the riverfront that a

0:26:12.770,0:26:16.060
lot of people are very excited [br]to see happen with you know

0:26:16.260,0:26:20.090
condominiums and businesses ride [br]along the river and should this

0:26:20.110,0:26:24.630
oil terminal get built there that [br]project will not go forward.

0:26:24.630,0:26:29.380
So there's a lot of tension between [br]those 2 different types of

0:26:29.480,0:26:30.970
development that have being proposed.

0:26:30.970,0:26:31.770
But you know,

0:26:31.770,0:26:33.250
over and over again.

0:26:33.250,0:26:34.210
These oil,

0:26:34.210,0:26:39.430
gas and coal corporations are using [br]very sneaky tactics they'll

0:26:39.430,0:26:41.570
claim for example,

0:26:41.570,0:26:45.960
one of the ways 30 oil company managed [br]to get the Bakken crude

0:26:46.050,0:26:49.520
managed to be exported along [br]the Columbia River,

0:26:49.520,0:26:51.360
they got me a port,

0:26:51.360,0:26:55.500
claiming it was going to be used [br]as a bio refinery the bio

0:26:55.630,0:26:58.880
refinery went bankrupt and there [br]and once they had already gotten

0:26:58.940,0:27:02.340
the amended for the bio refinery [br]they changed it to an oil

0:27:02.340,0:27:05.840
terminal so there's all sorts [br]of tricky schemes that these

0:27:05.950,0:27:08.970
industries are using outright lies,

0:27:08.970,0:27:10.290
claiming that they are,

0:27:10.290,0:27:10.620
you know,

0:27:10.620,0:27:13.950
for example in the case of the propane [br]terminal they claimed it

0:27:14.000,0:27:18.580
was going to be used for the women [br]to cook with him in Asia,

0:27:18.580,0:27:22.440
we found that in fact it was on the [br]used to be making proclaiming

0:27:22.630,0:27:26.240
and plastics and nothing to do with [br]the alleviating the poverty

0:27:26.800,0:27:28.640
were women in in Asia.

0:27:28.640,0:27:31.760
So you know we have to be on our [br]guard against these companies

0:27:31.790,0:27:32.050
there,

0:27:32.050,0:27:36.330
they're using every strategy they [br]can Oregon apparently is number

0:27:36.330,0:27:40.000
3 nationally as a target for Alex funds,

0:27:40.000,0:27:44.270
that's one of the right wing anti-environmental [br]and and climate

0:27:44.350,0:27:48.410
denialist groups that's been pushing [br]a a very strong legislative

0:27:48.410,0:27:52.390
agenda in favor of big energy and [br]they're going up oil you know.

0:27:52.390,0:27:52.820
So we're,

0:27:52.820,0:27:55.390
we're really fighting on all [br]fronts here in the north.

0:27:56.420,0:27:57.730
Now going ask you about that.

0:27:57.730,0:28:00.900
I mean whenever big oil money [br]comes into an area.

0:28:00.900,0:28:03.370
There's a chance for corruption [br]and certainly you can woo

0:28:03.370,0:28:07.200
politicians with the ideas of more [br]jobs and a better economy,

0:28:07.200,0:28:11.860
and eventually I wonder is it even [br]compatible with local democracy

0:28:12.030,0:28:16.000
and and freedom to in your area to [br]allow these companies to come

0:28:16.000,0:28:18.240
in and start working the [br]way you're describing.

0:28:19.120,0:28:21.130
Well that's that's compared threat.

0:28:21.130,0:28:25.080
I think that's that's looming for [br]region is you know it's yet to

0:28:25.080,0:28:29.570
potentially will change the and not [br]just the political nature of

0:28:29.600,0:28:30.350
this region,

0:28:30.350,0:28:32.810
but you know the entire economy.

0:28:32.810,0:28:36.900
It was shaped in a completely different [br]direction when we start

0:28:36.900,0:28:41.810
welcoming in trains and trains [br]and terminals and refineries

0:28:42.590,0:28:46.350
suddenly start looking a lot more [br]like Texas than Oregon both

0:28:46.390,0:28:49.760
politically and you know environmentally [br]and that's certainly not

0:28:49.900,0:28:52.430
what a lot of people moved [br]to the Pacific Northwest.

0:28:52.430,0:28:56.140
His experience and that the [br]values of the northwest,

0:28:56.140,0:29:00.300
but you know we have in addition [br]to the the traditional political

0:29:00.300,0:29:00.940
concerns.

0:29:00.940,0:29:04.490
There's also of course the concerns [br]that Native Americans have

0:29:04.490,0:29:09.240
around preserving their trade is [br]a concern has been without a

0:29:09.330,0:29:13.940
court and try to get these treaties [br]upheld for Native Americans is

0:29:13.970,0:29:17.750
that in some cases if they lose [br]their truly get weekend.

0:29:17.750,0:29:21.890
So it's a great at great risk that [br]they go to court and try to get

0:29:21.980,0:29:26.250
these treaties upheld and that's [br]another potential setback that

0:29:26.370,0:29:27.630
unfortunately once again.

0:29:27.630,0:29:30.720
Native Americans have an awful [br]lot to lose in this battle.

0:29:31.510,0:29:35.730
This is Radio Eco shark with Augusta [br]long time Green radio host

0:29:35.830,0:29:40.150
and activist Stephanie Weisz another [br]big do you know Darfuris is

0:29:40.180,0:29:43.520
to announce massive liquid [br]natural gas terminals.

0:29:43.520,0:29:45.720
We've got a government [br]in British Columbia,

0:29:45.720,0:29:49.360
the got elected promising all the [br]jobs in the money and and you

0:29:49.360,0:29:52.080
know our budget would be totally [br]balanced once we get these LNG

0:29:52.160,0:29:52.630
plants,

0:29:52.630,0:29:53.970
which have not materialized.

0:29:53.970,0:29:55.140
Incidentally,

0:29:55.140,0:29:57.810
what about LNG in the Pacific Northwest.

0:29:58.450,0:29:58.670
Well,

0:29:58.670,0:30:02.550
that's another big battle that we're [br]facing right now we've got 2

0:30:02.620,0:30:07.530
major pipelines being proposed just [br]for Oregon one in southern

0:30:07.530,0:30:10.410
Oregon that they want to build its over$7

0:30:10.420,0:30:15.390
billion pipeline that they want to [br]build through the southern part

0:30:15.390,0:30:20.690
of Oregon and then have the export [br]terminal export LNG from coups

0:30:20.730,0:30:24.920
they Oregon and another one in northern [br]Oregon and Washington,

0:30:24.920,0:30:29.470
Oregon and both of these [br]projects would involved.

0:30:29.470,0:30:30.280
Of course,

0:30:30.280,0:30:35.250
massive equation land that a [br]lot of it in private hands.

0:30:35.250,0:30:38.310
And in many cases they are claiming,

0:30:38.310,0:30:40.910
eminent domain.

0:30:40.910,0:30:46.280
You know as an argument in favor [br]of her example 10 about$25,000

0:30:46.610,0:30:47.820
per acre,

0:30:47.820,0:30:52.590
which is way below the market value [br]due to land borders and the

0:30:52.590,0:30:56.370
irony in this is that many of these [br]LNG companies are actually

0:30:56.470,0:30:59.570
foreign owned and they're [br]claiming eminent domain,

0:30:59.570,0:31:02.060
which is you know of course [br]it's for export.

0:31:02.060,0:31:05.770
So a lot of people that I was lifting [br]these LNG terminals are

0:31:05.830,0:31:06.060
saying,

0:31:06.060,0:31:06.250
you know,

0:31:06.250,0:31:06.710
how,

0:31:06.710,0:31:11.790
how can he possibly be using a law [br]that was created to develop

0:31:11.790,0:31:16.510
infrastructure for people in the United [br]States taking on land away

0:31:16.510,0:31:21.120
from us in order to facilitate the [br]profits of foreign corporations

0:31:21.280,0:31:25.110
that are just bypassing all of our [br]our legal structures in order

0:31:25.110,0:31:29.300
to to build this pipeline and exported [br]it to other countries.

0:31:29.300,0:31:30.650
So there's a lot of resistance.

0:31:30.650,0:31:31.350
But again,

0:31:31.350,0:31:35.650
not with so much money on achieve [br]all a lot of politicians are

0:31:36.160,0:31:37.970
lining up to support this,

0:31:37.970,0:31:42.520
and certainly our local paper [br]The Oregonian seems to be

0:31:44.100,0:31:47.440
completely in the pocket of the fossil [br]fuel industry which written

0:31:47.440,0:31:50.280
editorials saying that climate [br]change is not a concern for

0:31:50.310,0:31:54.680
Oregonian Gennaro regularly trumpeting [br]all the benefits of these

0:31:54.720,0:31:55.980
fossil fuel exports.

0:31:55.980,0:31:57.780
So we're in a bit of a,

0:31:57.780,0:31:58.190
you know,

0:31:58.190,0:32:00.590
in a bit of a of a war [br]here in the northwest.

0:32:00.590,0:32:04.780
In terms of both keeping people [br]informed about what's really

0:32:04.780,0:32:08.870
happening and and taking you know [br]holding our elected officials

0:32:08.980,0:32:09.400
accountable.

0:32:10.330,0:32:12.470
Does the state of Oregon allow fracas.

0:32:13.430,0:32:20.270
Now it has not banned tracking [br]this actually did come up this

0:32:20.270,0:32:24.500
year and that there wasn't a bill [br]that originally was going to ban

0:32:24.500,0:32:28.630
for acting and then it sort of morphed [br]into regulating tracking

0:32:28.860,0:32:31.550
and that created a huge uproar where [br]people said no we don't want

0:32:31.550,0:32:32.120
to regulate it.

0:32:32.120,0:32:35.500
We want ban it out outcry currently [br]there as far as I know there's

0:32:35.630,0:32:40.240
very little in the way of any sort [br]of gas exploitable gas reserves

0:32:40.240,0:32:43.620
anywhere in Oregon but I think he [br]would have an awfully hard time

0:32:43.860,0:32:44.820
for hacking in Oregon.

0:32:45.820,0:32:47.180
Well that's good to hear now Daphne,

0:32:47.180,0:32:51.270
I know you continue to keep track [br]of US national policy as well.

0:32:51.270,0:32:54.540
What do you make of President Obama [br]taking you know he talks

0:32:54.610,0:32:58.120
strongly about climate change and [br]any approves exploration for

0:32:58.180,0:33:01.560
more fossil fuels in the fragile [br]Arctic by Shell Oil.

0:33:02.210,0:33:04.090
You know you're getting as good as mine.

0:33:04.090,0:33:09.090
Alex I'm I'm just mystified at [br]you know how he can not take

0:33:09.560,0:33:10.650
especially of late.

0:33:10.690,0:33:12.400
In his last 2 years in office,

0:33:12.400,0:33:16.330
where I think it's so much more freely [br]disputed boldly about the

0:33:16.400,0:33:19.820
climate crisis and seems to [br]be taking an awful lot of

0:33:20.370,0:33:22.370
opportunities to speak out on it.

0:33:22.370,0:33:25.700
Why he would on the one hand take these,

0:33:25.700,0:33:26.050
you know,

0:33:26.050,0:33:29.770
take these actions do for example [br]restrict coal-fired power plant

0:33:29.770,0:33:34.120
emissions and and increase [br]energy efficient,

0:33:34.120,0:33:37.960
fuel-efficient automobiles and then [br]at the same time allow for

0:33:37.960,0:33:42.170
Arctic drilling and massive oil [br]and gas chemical exports.

0:33:42.170,0:33:46.130
I suppose it may have something [br]to do with the fact that he was

0:33:46.210,0:33:50.170
the number one recipient of BP's [br]funds when he was running for

0:33:50.320,0:33:51.550
office.

0:33:51.550,0:33:56.200
I don't know if he's still feeling [br]beholden to his donors.

0:33:56.200,0:34:00.320
It's really hard to understand why [br]he why he is acting only hears

0:34:00.320,0:34:03.130
. And again on the international front.

0:34:03.130,0:34:04.080
I was disappointed.

0:34:04.080,0:34:05.750
The leaders of industrial countries,

0:34:05.750,0:34:09.480
the G7 could only promise an end to [br]carbon emissions by the end of

0:34:09.480,0:34:11.400
this century 85 years away.

0:34:11.400,0:34:14.410
That's way too late to avoid [br]catastrophic climate change.

0:34:14.410,0:34:15.150
What do you think.

0:34:15.870,0:34:16.460
That's right,

0:34:16.460,0:34:21.720
I mean we had a proposal that whereas [br]the Germans and the G7 were

0:34:21.820,0:34:27.150
trying to you get indeed curb innovation [br]of all other G7 economies

0:34:27.480,0:34:32.940
by 20-50 and the Canadians and [br]the Japanese pushed back on

0:34:32.970,0:34:34.590
urgently and said no,

0:34:34.590,0:34:39.660
but we were sign on to do carbon [br]the station by 2100 of course is

0:34:39.720,0:34:41.100
a non-binding agreement.

0:34:41.100,0:34:44.260
So even if it were 2050 it would be,

0:34:44.260,0:34:49.890
wouldn't be all that that exciting [br]but 2100 it is still far out

0:34:50.010,0:34:53.930
you know past it the lifetime of [br]any of these folks at the table

0:34:54.020,0:34:56.920
and I'm sure they felt very comfortable [br]making this agreement and

0:34:57.470,0:34:59.150
kicking the can down the road.

0:34:59.150,0:35:03.600
The Japanese apparently are very [br]heavily invested you know coal

0:35:03.600,0:35:07.560
fire power you know he's learned [br]that explains their reluctance,

0:35:07.560,0:35:12.920
do you see any decrease in their [br]investments in coal and I I I

0:35:12.920,0:35:16.780
suppose the Canadians do the tourist [br]town are reluctant to see

0:35:17.380,0:35:22.930
decolonization any trying to do but [br]you seem to suggest in in our

0:35:22.980,0:35:27.480
last conversation tar sands profits [br]are plummeting as their own.

0:35:27.900,0:35:28.690
That's true.

0:35:28.690,0:35:31.760
It's just too expensive to [br]produce the tar sands.

0:35:31.760,0:35:33.180
You need at least$60

0:35:33.320,0:35:34.370
to$70

0:35:34.460,0:35:38.410
a barrel to do it and they're only [br]getting about 40 to 45 they

0:35:38.410,0:35:44.010
don't get world prices because the [br]tires and requires so much work

0:35:44.010,0:35:46.870
at the refinery to get a usable [br]product that they get a lower

0:35:46.930,0:35:47.250
price.

0:35:47.250,0:35:49.940
So they're losing some money and it,

0:35:49.940,0:35:54.100
what's happening is this massive layoffs [br]in Alberta and I mean big

0:35:54.100,0:35:59.050
big big layoffs and the financing [br]for these companies is getting

0:35:59.100,0:36:01.130
hard to get and their stocks,

0:36:01.130,0:36:04.830
according to one of our [br]guests went down 70%,

0:36:04.830,0:36:07.300
so that's a big drop in their [br]stock value as well.

0:36:08.060,0:36:09.390
Interesting.

0:36:09.390,0:36:09.550
Well,

0:36:09.550,0:36:10.590
that may be.

0:36:10.590,0:36:12.950
Let me explain why they're trying to do.

0:36:12.950,0:36:19.260
Also some of the same companies [br]cap into the acts Gaston and

0:36:19.620,0:36:24.970
propane byproduct of that in the past [br]have been treated as a waste

0:36:25.040,0:36:25.420
gas,

0:36:25.420,0:36:27.440
it's another revenue stream for them.

0:36:28.380,0:36:31.360
You now do you expect much concrete [br]to come out of the pair's

0:36:31.430,0:36:32.790
climate talks later this year.

0:36:34.120,0:36:37.490
Well I'm I'm always hopeful.

0:36:37.490,0:36:37.650
Well,

0:36:37.650,0:36:41.180
I I had that they haven't been [br]I I went to the climate

0:36:41.180,0:36:46.370
negotiations in Kyoto and I went [br]to several others after that and

0:36:46.370,0:36:48.420
I haven't been to the last few years,

0:36:48.420,0:36:51.990
and I was just feeling very discouraged [br]about all of the

0:36:52.200,0:36:56.400
brinksmanship and which which is what [br]you always see it with these

0:36:56.480,0:37:00.670
conferences nobody shows their hand [br]until long after midnight on

0:37:00.670,0:37:04.340
the final made and finally everybody's [br]scrambling on very little

0:37:04.340,0:37:06.710
sleep to come up with an agreement.

0:37:06.710,0:37:10.890
It just seemed like you know I dream [br]of of chess with the planets

0:37:10.890,0:37:13.940
. The fate of the planet at [br]stake over and over again.

0:37:13.940,0:37:16.380
I got I kind of very tiresome.

0:37:16.380,0:37:17.800
This time,

0:37:17.800,0:37:21.550
you know we do how China coming [br]to the table with an agreement

0:37:21.910,0:37:27.780
with the United States that does seem [br]to have potentially at least

0:37:27.870,0:37:32.450
broken a logjam between the developing [br]countries and that the

0:37:32.470,0:37:35.850
wealthy countries that we saw over [br]and over again played out its

0:37:35.950,0:37:36.930
climate negotiations.

0:37:36.930,0:37:40.690
So it seems that the dynamics [br]could be different enough to

0:37:41.000,0:37:45.370
potentially a shift things moving forward.

0:37:45.370,0:37:49.850
But whether we'll see the kind of [br]truly dramatic commitments that

0:37:49.950,0:37:52.530
are needed to stabilize the [br]climate earning trying to,

0:37:52.530,0:37:52.890
you know,

0:37:52.890,0:37:57.230
I'm not that hopeful but I I I do [br]think to think well at least

0:37:57.280,0:37:58.810
begin to shift at this next Senate.

0:37:58.900,0:37:59.280
Fox.

0:37:59.750,0:38:00.080
You know.

0:38:00.130,0:38:03.050
Now America has elections [br]coming up eventually,

0:38:03.050,0:38:06.010
do you expect the same rogues [br]gallery of Republican climate

0:38:06.130,0:38:09.080
deniers to be elected again in Congress.

0:38:09.940,0:38:16.020
I think the Republicans have a very [br]slim chances of gaining the

0:38:16.020,0:38:16.650
presidency.

0:38:16.650,0:38:20.730
I think that they have a higher likelihood [br]of retaining control of

0:38:20.730,0:38:23.840
the south and in the house when [br]you have somebody like Hillary

0:38:23.840,0:38:24.970
Clinton running for office.

0:38:24.970,0:38:30.540
I think you know just given her [br]stature nationally and and

0:38:30.630,0:38:31.380
globally.

0:38:31.380,0:38:34.930
She probably stand a greater [br]chance than any of the other

0:38:35.140,0:38:38.040
candidates they're running but a [br]lot can happen between now and

0:38:38.040,0:38:41.600
20-16 that's my prediction [br]at this point in time,

0:38:41.600,0:38:46.350
oil processing Bernie Sanders surprisingly [br]gaining on Hillary

0:38:46.350,0:38:46.970
Clinton.

0:38:46.970,0:38:49.990
He is an independent and a [br]self-proclaimed socialist.

0:38:49.990,0:38:53.270
So that's a huge surprise [br]for the United States.

0:38:53.270,0:38:54.500
I think what it suggests,

0:38:54.500,0:38:59.130
is that people have had enough of [br]either candidate really avoiding

0:38:59.170,0:39:03.120
the issue of income inequality and [br]Bernie standard but there is

0:39:03.160,0:39:06.550
taking on the corporations in the [br]banks like no other candidate is

0:39:06.550,0:39:07.050
right now.

0:39:07.700,0:39:10.730
You know I remember after the financial [br]crash that Bernie Sanders

0:39:10.940,0:39:14.440
actually came out and described [br]who runs America and it was

0:39:14.600,0:39:17.660
revealing he talked for hours and [br]hours and hours on the record.

0:39:17.660,0:39:19.640
It was great stuff.

0:39:19.640,0:39:20.150
Well,

0:39:20.150,0:39:22.020
I see that scientists say.

0:39:22.020,0:39:24.770
Climate change will look very different [br]from region to region,

0:39:24.770,0:39:27.930
and we saw that again this year [br]in North America with a hot

0:39:28.040,0:39:32.390
exceptionally dry western a cool [br]snow rainy east is it a big

0:39:32.490,0:39:36.910
problem that citizens experience climate [br]change so locally and yet

0:39:36.910,0:39:39.650
the problem demands a global solution.

0:39:40.290,0:39:40.880
Well,

0:39:40.880,0:39:43.330
I mean in terms of the [br]deserving Northwest,

0:39:43.330,0:39:47.480
one of the things that we are preparing [br]for a which is a little

0:39:47.480,0:39:48.610
bit alarming is there.

0:39:48.610,0:39:52.700
Niger influx of climate refugees [br]to the northwest,

0:39:52.700,0:39:55.400
city officials tell us that they're [br]expecting you know the

0:39:55.520,0:39:58.300
population in Portland for example [br]to increased by several hundred

0:39:58.360,0:40:00.230
thousand in the coming decades.

0:40:00.230,0:40:05.710
So I think you know Californian [br]dried up and continues to drag.

0:40:05.710,0:40:09.420
We probably will see quite a [br]few people moving north from

0:40:09.420,0:40:12.040
California wetter climates.

0:40:12.040,0:40:18.150
Is it problematic how climate change [br]out with regard to I I don't

0:40:18.150,0:40:20.900
fully understand what what what what [br]you mean by that question can

0:40:20.900,0:40:21.370
be retrained.

0:40:22.190,0:40:22.920
Well,

0:40:22.920,0:40:25.880
it's just that you know the old [br]story about the elephant people

0:40:25.880,0:40:26.290
come up.

0:40:26.290,0:40:29.100
The elephant in one pulls the tail [br]on says that's what an elf.

0:40:29.100,0:40:31.920
It looks like the other one grabs [br]a new year and says that's what

0:40:31.920,0:40:34.620
the often looks like climate [br]change is kind of like that,

0:40:34.620,0:40:38.560
you know you have people who see [br]and experiencing so differently

0:40:38.690,0:40:42.450
right around them and yet they're [br]supposed to all unite somehow

0:40:42.670,0:40:45.470
and demand an overall great big solution.

0:40:46.470,0:40:46.770
Well,

0:40:46.770,0:40:51.000
I mean I think that polls suggest [br]that a majority of Americans do

0:40:51.290,0:40:53.550
think that the climate crisis.

0:40:53.550,0:40:57.570
The areas it's happening and they [br]want to see action taken on it,

0:40:57.570,0:40:59.770
regardless of how it manifests [br]in their region.

0:40:59.770,0:41:03.030
I think people are increasingly [br]alarmed and are increasingly

0:41:03.190,0:41:06.130
wanting to see elected [br]official take action.

0:41:06.130,0:41:09.570
Unfortunately our elected officials [br]there you know largely

0:41:09.850,0:41:12.260
following the money and most of [br]the money is with the club

0:41:12.360,0:41:16.020
brothers and the other oil companies [br]so they're listening to them

0:41:16.070,0:41:20.260
and not to that the American people [br]but at least at the moment you

0:41:20.260,0:41:23.630
know this is one reason why we need [br]better campaign finance laws

0:41:23.690,0:41:24.420
in this country.

0:41:24.420,0:41:28.540
But I think what we come to the conclusion [br]here at the Center for

0:41:28.540,0:41:32.150
a sustainable economy is that working [br]at the city level working at

0:41:32.170,0:41:32.830
the state level,

0:41:32.830,0:41:35.810
you can get a lot more done than [br]you can trying to work in

0:41:35.890,0:41:38.540
Washington DC things are very [br]broken and Washington,

0:41:38.540,0:41:41.210
but you can actually affect [br]policy at the state level,

0:41:41.210,0:41:44.290
and eventually hopefully [br]MPs that into some sort.

0:41:44.440,0:41:45.360
National strategy.

0:41:45.820,0:41:45.970
Yeah.

0:41:46.100,0:41:47.110
That's a great point,

0:41:47.110,0:41:50.400
are you getting re-energized by [br]regional activism on the west

0:41:50.470,0:41:54.400
coast versus the politics of living [br]and working in Washington DC.

0:41:54.770,0:41:55.770
Oh yes,

0:41:55.770,0:41:57.020
yes.

0:41:57.020,0:42:01.020
You know and a hit lots and lots [br]of exclamation points after that

0:42:01.530,0:42:06.380
statement I I'm so inspired by and [br]many of the young people that

0:42:06.380,0:42:10.370
retirees so level of engagement here [br]in the northwest around the

0:42:10.370,0:42:14.730
issue of climate change is so [br]broad and persons here and so

0:42:14.930,0:42:16.050
energized.

0:42:16.050,0:42:20.720
It's really inspiring to see a lot [br]of people hurt you know just

0:42:20.970,0:42:25.720
put their careers completely on [br]hold and are doing nothing but

0:42:25.820,0:42:27.600
working on this climate crisis,

0:42:27.600,0:42:28.230
one of the people.

0:42:28.230,0:42:31.790
That's leading local 350 chapter [br]here in Portland.

0:42:31.790,0:42:35.570
It's the former Andy who [br]just decided this was,

0:42:35.570,0:42:38.890
this is where she needed to [br]spend her time and energy.

0:42:38.890,0:42:41.780
I know a lot of people that have [br]dealt with either early

0:42:41.780,0:42:46.640
retirement or living very frugally [br]so that they can devote a

0:42:46.670,0:42:50.500
significant amount of time to working [br]on the the fighting at the

0:42:50.500,0:42:52.650
fossil fuel industry here in Oregon.

0:42:52.650,0:42:53.640
So it's,

0:42:53.640,0:42:57.960
it's both inspiring encourages me [br]to work even harder whereas back

0:42:57.960,0:42:58.510
in Washington,

0:42:58.510,0:42:59.150
DC.

0:42:59.150,0:43:03.080
We just feel that no matter how much [br]you through your head against

0:43:03.140,0:43:05.860
that that wall you just keeps Nash.

0:43:05.860,0:43:09.910
You know how to go through expense [br]and it wasn't going to budge.

0:43:09.910,0:43:12.030
But things do actually [br]get done it Thursday.

0:43:13.250,0:43:16.860
I wonder if there's a story or experience [br]beyond that you think

0:43:16.890,0:43:20.290
could help raise our listeners [br]to an even greater move into

0:43:20.350,0:43:21.520
climate activism.

0:43:22.680,0:43:23.030
Well,

0:43:23.030,0:43:27.470
I mean I think the climate crisis [br]you you know you've covered it

0:43:27.500,0:43:28.110
so well,

0:43:28.110,0:43:31.730
especially in your recent shows [br]with climate psychologists and

0:43:31.850,0:43:37.360
others talking about the ways in [br]which we turn away from just how

0:43:37.460,0:43:38.960
serious it is,

0:43:38.960,0:43:40.910
it cannot have that result,

0:43:40.910,0:43:45.490
but it can also when you are working [br]in coalition with others I

0:43:45.520,0:43:49.350
what I found is that the people [br]that end up coming out to join

0:43:49.380,0:43:52.720
this coalitions are some of the [br]best members of our society and

0:43:52.830,0:43:56.150
mean you know just smart committed,

0:43:56.150,0:43:56.900
funny,

0:43:56.900,0:43:58.100
creative,

0:43:58.100,0:44:01.690
and these are the kinds of people [br]that I would want to have.

0:44:01.690,0:44:04.110
By my side fighting any kind of battle.

0:44:04.110,0:44:08.480
So I encourage people that are in [br]any way feeling defeated by this

0:44:08.660,0:44:13.710
crisis turn that sort of intention [br]to mourn into an into an

0:44:13.760,0:44:18.120
organizing intention and to really [br]stick out like-minded folks

0:44:18.230,0:44:22.060
because they will energize you and [br]keep you going in the darkest

0:44:22.060,0:44:26.700
hours and a lot of us are [br]feeling the grief around.

0:44:26.700,0:44:28.700
I know I felt it for quite some time,

0:44:28.700,0:44:29.930
but there is,

0:44:29.930,0:44:34.630
there are signs that people are really [br]beginning to get it and I

0:44:34.700,0:44:39.020
really getting mobilized for example [br]and working with the National

0:44:39.430,0:44:42.750
Unitarian General Assembly that's [br]gathering in Portland and 6,000

0:44:43.040,0:44:46.390
members of the Unitarian coming [br]from all over the United States

0:44:46.410,0:44:49.970
and they'll be focused exclusively [br]on those climate change and

0:44:49.970,0:44:53.760
also how best to work in solidarity [br]with native Americans in

0:44:53.850,0:44:55.630
facing down this crisis.

0:44:55.630,0:44:57.060
It's very exciting.

0:44:57.060,0:45:01.650
It feels like we are going to go [br]back to our home communities and

0:45:01.690,0:45:03.660
really commit to respond.

0:45:03.660,0:45:06.810
In fact there is a website commit [br]to respond and people were going

0:45:06.810,0:45:10.460
to be asked to do something along [br]the same lines of what your last

0:45:10.490,0:45:14.800
guest asked us to do which is to [br]mobilize towards a World War 2

0:45:14.830,0:45:18.720
type mobilization to save you know [br]I think a lot of us recognize

0:45:18.720,0:45:22.790
if that's what's required to swim [br]time and we need all of us to be

0:45:22.870,0:45:26.440
calling for the same thing both for [br]our economy and for our planet

0:45:26.610,0:45:29.050
if were gonna stop this monster in time.

0:45:29.580,0:45:29.760
Here.

0:45:29.850,0:45:34.410
Our guest Washington hosted the environmental [br]program for 8 years

0:45:34.410,0:45:38.380
on the Pacifica Radio network now [br]she's bounced between regional

0:45:38.500,0:45:42.550
activism on the West Coast continuing [br]watch over national and

0:45:42.580,0:45:44.740
international climate developments.

0:45:44.740,0:45:48.080
She is the director of climate [br]and the energy program at the

0:45:48.080,0:45:52.370
Center for sustainable economy definitely [br]where the best places to

0:45:52.370,0:45:54.240
follow your ongoing work.

0:45:54.820,0:45:59.620
Sustainable dash economy of our [br]website and we are getting on

0:45:59.930,0:46:01.680
climate and energy program up and running.

0:46:01.680,0:46:05.580
There were very excited about a new [br]initiative that you can see an

0:46:05.580,0:46:08.870
update on shortly called climate response.

0:46:08.870,0:46:12.600
We have a preliminary paper up there [br]and we'll be posting a lot of

0:46:12.620,0:46:18.170
our activity on Algerian and other [br]oil and gas and coal exports in

0:46:18.170,0:46:19.320
the Pacific Northwest,

0:46:19.320,0:46:21.710
we've hired a new political director.

0:46:21.710,0:46:23.760
You can join our activist network there,

0:46:23.760,0:46:28.200
and we were poured engaging with anyone [br]who wants to preserve what

0:46:28.200,0:46:31.420
we call that in green line here [br]in the Pacific Northwest them

0:46:31.560,0:46:33.350
these massive fossil fuel.

0:46:33.610,0:46:33.870
Well,

0:46:33.870,0:46:34.280
from going.

0:46:35.020,0:46:35.350
Great.

0:46:35.350,0:46:39.100
So listeners just Google center [br]for sustainable economy or look

0:46:39.100,0:46:42.400
for links in my blog at could [br]shock.info Daphne.

0:46:42.400,0:46:44.160
Thank you so much for joining us again,

0:46:44.160,0:46:46.400
please keep in touch as you [br]develop more stories.

0:46:46.860,0:46:47.800
Thank you.

0:46:47.800,0:46:51.970
And one last thing it it really [br]as websites seemed odd or will

0:46:51.970,0:46:55.100
take you right to absolutely [br]and I do I will treat you,

0:46:55.100,0:46:55.260
right.

0:46:55.590,0:46:56.900
Activist network page.

0:46:57.150,0:47:01.730
Beautiful scene.org I'm Alex Smith [br]reporting for Radio Eco shark.

0:47:04.650,0:47:08.940
This is Radio Eco shot made up your [br]iPod or computer with tons of

0:47:08.970,0:47:14.420
free green audio from our website [br]at W W W.eco shock.org that's

0:47:14.520,0:47:17.490
easy oil shock like electric shock.org.

0:47:22.320,0:47:23.980
In the short time we have left.

0:47:23.980,0:47:27.270
I'd like to pass on some quotes [br]and notes from a deep and

0:47:27.270,0:47:31.270
important talk from climate week [br]at Harvard University Center for

0:47:31.270,0:47:32.350
the environment,

0:47:32.350,0:47:33.030
the speakers.

0:47:33.030,0:47:37.240
Dr. James Anderson and the title [br]is coupled feedback in the

0:47:37.240,0:47:42.390
climate structure that set the timescale [br]for irreversible change

0:47:42.840,0:47:46.230
Arctic isotopes to stratospheric radicals.

0:47:46.230,0:47:49.860
That's quite a bit and believe me [br]he covers a lot this talk on

0:47:49.860,0:47:54.400
April 8th 20-15 was part of a series [br]of presentations I found this

0:47:54.400,0:47:55.380
on video.

0:47:55.380,0:47:59.080
Thanks to a tip from a radio equal [br]shock listener and I'm so glad

0:47:59.080,0:48:00.280
I did.

0:48:00.280,0:48:02.040
The talk as Anderson tells us,

0:48:02.040,0:48:03.540
is a fairly high level.

0:48:03.540,0:48:06.510
A presentation of ongoing research [br]into some important

0:48:06.510,0:48:10.180
developments in the climate Anderson [br]covers a wide range of

0:48:10.180,0:48:11.040
science.

0:48:11.040,0:48:13.610
I can only get to a few points here,

0:48:13.610,0:48:14.270
for example,

0:48:14.270,0:48:18.350
research into past ages showed the [br]stratosphere that upper level

0:48:18.350,0:48:22.360
of Earth's atmosphere above the weather [br]was far wetter than today

0:48:22.360,0:48:24.680
, in past greenhouse ages.

0:48:24.680,0:48:28.450
The wording of the stratosphere should [br]be happening now but until

0:48:28.590,0:48:31.350
very recently nobody knew [br]how that could happen.

0:48:31.350,0:48:35.610
Now we do Anderson also points out [br]a key difference between past

0:48:35.720,0:48:38.610
hothouse world and today this time around.

0:48:38.610,0:48:42.890
Humans have also injected chlorinated [br]substances like ozone

0:48:43.070,0:48:47.160
destroying CFCs there were never [br]there in the past ages and how

0:48:47.160,0:48:51.460
does that affect climate change as [br]we'll hear from those opening

0:48:51.460,0:48:55.180
quote scientists are gaining new [br]knowledge on changes we've made

0:48:55.500,0:48:56.790
that cannot be reversed,

0:48:56.790,0:49:00.910
at least not in any timescale that [br]matters to humans here is Dr.

0:49:00.910,0:49:02.420
Anderson speaking at Harvard.

0:49:03.180,0:49:08.450
This is really research talk about [br]2 aspects of the climate

0:49:08.450,0:49:09.860
structure,

0:49:09.860,0:49:14.890
both of which are coupled through [br]irreversible connective cycles

0:49:15.220,0:49:20.100
and so I'm gonna talk about experiments [br]done 5 meters above the

0:49:20.100,0:49:24.770
surface and then experiments done [br]20 kilometers above the surface

0:49:24.830,0:49:27.320
and you'll see why those are linked,

0:49:27.320,0:49:31.540
but just in case I basketball [br]over these things I want to

0:49:31.670,0:49:33.900
emphasize some points.

0:49:33.900,0:49:37.450
The first one is that this global [br]climate structure is changing

0:49:37.450,0:49:42.280
far more rapidly than than we believe [br]was possible even even 5

0:49:42.280,0:49:46.720
years ago and I'm gonna show some [br]dominant examples of that the

0:49:46.720,0:49:50.820
next issue is the feedback in the [br]climate structure because it

0:49:50.820,0:49:55.700
seeks feedback sits set the timescale [br]for a reverse ability and

0:49:55.840,0:49:58.980
I'm gonna take a very brief tour [br]through the climate system to

0:49:58.980,0:50:02.040
demonstrate how that functions now:

0:50:02.040,0:50:05.670
a look at the way in which developing [br]technology provides direct

0:50:05.730,0:50:09.580
measurements for example of methane [br]and carbon di-oxide ITA topic

0:50:10.120,0:50:10.900
Fox measurement.

0:50:11.910,0:50:15.910
Next we'll hear about how the fragile [br]Arctic determined so much of

0:50:15.910,0:50:16.550
our weather.

0:50:17.470,0:50:22.600
Then I'm going to look at why these [br]Cryer systems which are so

0:50:22.720,0:50:27.880
delicate because heat of fusion [br]for waters so small that the

0:50:27.880,0:50:34.270
delicacy of of these Cryer systems [br]in a cruel irony link into the

0:50:34.270,0:50:39.770
larger global climate structure [br]and they exhibit inordinate

0:50:39.770,0:50:43.760
control over these global climate [br]systems I'm I'm gonna touch very

0:50:43.760,0:50:48.130
briefly on this pale your record [br]and as Brian talked about on on

0:50:48.130,0:50:54.250
Tuesday that the climate structure [br]depends in in large measure on

0:50:54.250,0:50:58.620
the temperature gradient between [br]the tropics in the polar regions

0:50:58.620,0:51:01.400
and during the EEOC,

0:51:01.400,0:51:04.200
there was a very little temperature [br]difference between the tropics

0:51:04.200,0:51:09.470
and and and the polar regions and [br]in that particular structure of

0:51:09.470,0:51:11.630
the stratosphere had to be wet.

0:51:11.630,0:51:12.440
There's very little

0:51:13.970,0:51:14.380
and fact.

0:51:14.380,0:51:14.840
I don't know,

0:51:14.840,0:51:15.160
Brian,

0:51:15.160,0:51:17.830
I don't think there's any possibility [br]of having that claim a

0:51:17.830,0:51:20.710
structure without a Maurice stratosphere.

0:51:20.710,0:51:24.300
And as we'll see moisture entering [br]the stratosphere today has a

0:51:24.300,0:51:27.240
very different connotation because [br]it triggers catalytic cycles

0:51:27.240,0:51:30.010
involving chlorine in Bromley in [br]that were not present during the

0:51:30.030,0:51:35.330
EEOC so also talk about you active [br]of injection north of the

0:51:35.470,0:51:36.450
subtropical jet,

0:51:36.450,0:51:41.220
which as we saw from from Bryant brands [br]talk is of a potential way

0:51:41.220,0:51:45.080
of transitioning from the current [br]structure of the climate to one

0:51:45.080,0:51:49.450
in which there is a far smaller difference [br]between in temperature

0:51:49.510,0:51:51.630
between the equator in the polar regions,

0:51:51.630,0:51:55.180
so is convicted injection of water,

0:51:55.180,0:52:00.440
it turned out to be unique over [br]the US and it's coupled also to

0:52:00.860,0:52:04.810
any cyclonic flow over the US that [br]that's created by the North

0:52:04.810,0:52:06.050
American monsoon.

0:52:06.050,0:52:10.460
And so we have this convicted injection [br]into this anti cyclonic

0:52:10.460,0:52:11.800
motion,

0:52:11.800,0:52:17.190
which is a hoot demonic combination [br]created by the dynamics.

0:52:17.190,0:52:21.930
But it has very strong good coupling [br]into the catalytic chemical

0:52:22.220,0:52:23.480
structure of the stratosphere.

0:52:24.260,0:52:27.530
Note how Anderson stressed the point [br]made again and again by our

0:52:27.580,0:52:31.190
guest scientist Paul Beckwith when [br]explaining the new disruption

0:52:31.190,0:52:34.510
of weather in the northern hemisphere [br]and that's the temperature

0:52:34.600,0:52:38.400
difference between the tropics in [br]the polls as polar regions warm

0:52:38.400,0:52:41.540
up the difference is declining and [br]the result is a slower and wave

0:52:41.590,0:52:45.390
your jet stream and some really strange [br]weather for all of us in

0:52:45.410,0:52:48.190
the northern world as a side note,

0:52:48.190,0:52:51.370
Anderson explains why both the [br]left and the right may support

0:52:51.560,0:52:55.890
further research into controversial [br]geo engineering first he

0:52:55.890,0:52:58.860
refers to the National Research [br]Council report on climate

0:52:58.860,0:53:02.360
engineering particularly solar [br]radiation management.

0:53:02.550,0:53:06.730
The National Research Council [br]just released a new report on

0:53:06.730,0:53:10.400
climate engineering particularly [br]solar radiation management that

0:53:11.250,0:53:15.980
is being pushed actually in a bipartisan [br]way because the right

0:53:16.040,0:53:21.370
would like to have solar radiation [br]management so more fossil fuels

0:53:21.400,0:53:26.350
can be burned and the left believes [br]that intruding in natural

0:53:26.350,0:53:31.070
systems like this is a very dangerous [br]so research on the topic is

0:53:31.100,0:53:34.300
gaining bilateral support,

0:53:34.300,0:53:36.050
which is highly unusual these days.

0:53:36.800,0:53:38.800
Next we hear why James Anderson,

0:53:38.800,0:53:43.520
thinks global warming is so horribly [br]wrong as a term to describe

0:53:43.540,0:53:44.950
the current climate shift.

0:53:45.550,0:53:45.830
All right,

0:53:45.830,0:53:50.590
so let me start with with a bias [br]this this term global warming

0:53:50.690,0:53:53.040
applied to this problem.

0:53:53.040,0:53:57.200
It makes me shudder because 70% [br]of the globe is covered by the

0:53:57.200,0:53:57.590
ocean,

0:53:57.590,0:53:59.780
with an average depth of 3500 meters,

0:53:59.780,0:54:02.460
and it has massive heat capacity,

0:54:02.460,0:54:06.400
so my mind most degenerate variable [br]you can discusses mean global

0:54:06.680,0:54:10.540
temperature and it also carries a [br]connotation of something that's

0:54:10.540,0:54:14.790
happening slow leak you know one [br]degree centigrade per century

0:54:15.110,0:54:19.540
doesn't carry a huge amount of political [br]imperative behind it.

0:54:19.540,0:54:22.530
It also carries the connotation [br]that you can watch think slowly

0:54:22.530,0:54:23.720
change and if you don't like,

0:54:23.720,0:54:28.630
if you can just slow down the release [br]of carbon dioxide and return

0:54:28.630,0:54:32.270
to the condition and nothing could [br]be further from the truth is,

0:54:32.270,0:54:32.800
as we'll see.

0:54:32.800,0:54:37.460
So I always avoid the term and [br]I cringe every time I hear it.

0:54:38.140,0:54:40.980
We'll never have time to get to all [br]the great science in the stock

0:54:40.980,0:54:42.610
. But I do want you to hear this.

0:54:43.270,0:54:46.500
The next point involves these methane [br]clatter it's either of these

0:54:46.540,0:54:52.490
beautiful structures ice cages within [br]which nature inserts methane

0:54:52.490,0:54:58.320
produced anaerobic by decomposition [br]of organic material and in its

0:54:58.320,0:55:02.430
and it's chirpy that's driving this [br]entirely because it nature of

0:55:02.490,0:55:06.490
course abhors a vacuum and with stuff [br]molecules and every possible

0:55:06.520,0:55:12.960
nook and cranny in order to [br]engage the inclusion of

0:55:13.680,0:55:17.640
energy states and it turns out that [br]methane 5th beautifully into

0:55:17.680,0:55:23.560
these water cages and this is ubiquitous [br]Klatten nothing rates

0:55:23.560,0:55:28.060
contain about 3 times the chemical [br]energy of all known fossil fuel

0:55:28.320,0:55:30.240
reserves include coal,

0:55:30.240,0:55:34.860
petroleum natural gas and they [br]reside not only in the surface

0:55:34.960,0:55:37.090
soils of Siberia northern Alaska but also

0:55:38.620,0:55:42.200
they're ubiquitous across the ocean [br]basins this was pulled up off

0:55:42.240,0:55:46.960
the west coast of about 100m than [br]it is touch of magic to it and

0:55:46.960,0:55:51.780
it it ignites but the numbers as Steve,

0:55:51.780,0:55:53.420
what's the point pointed out,

0:55:53.420,0:55:55.290
are actually quite concerning.

0:55:55.290,0:56:00.600
So here we plot the CO2 emissions [br]from fossil-fuel burning in gig

0:56:00.660,0:56:05.770
tons of carbon per year yet to convert [br]back from CO2 but canonical

0:56:05.950,0:56:10.320
representation is and in carbon [br]per vehicle because of that's

0:56:10.390,0:56:16.310
typically how calibrated so 1990 have [br]about 6 again get tons of of

0:56:16.450,0:56:20.080
carbon was added to the atmosphere [br]by fossil-fuel burning,

0:56:20.080,0:56:24.770
and that was basically a textbook [br]number for for many many years,

0:56:24.770,0:56:26.080
but in 2000,

0:56:26.080,0:56:33.010
it started to take off and when [br]the 2007 IPCC report came out.

0:56:33.010,0:56:34.740
These were the release than area.

0:56:34.740,0:56:38.240
This was the worst possible [br]cases up a red wine,

0:56:38.240,0:56:38.700
and of course,

0:56:38.700,0:56:42.150
we've exceeded that of every year.

0:56:42.150,0:56:46.640
The subsequent to to 2007 but the [br]key point is that just half a

0:56:46.650,0:56:50.310
percent of the labor while carbon [br]in the Earth's surface soils,

0:56:50.310,0:56:55.540
of the North Slope of of Alaska [br]and Siberia just half a percent

0:56:55.610,0:56:59.440
release rate per year gives [br]us around 89 tons per year,

0:56:59.440,0:57:02.860
which doubles the carbon added [br]to the atmosphere by all

0:57:03.240,0:57:05.560
fossil-fuel burning worldwide.

0:57:05.560,0:57:10.440
And so this constitutes for the [br]next exhibit for feedback.

0:57:10.700,0:57:13.730
Anderson gives the example of a [br]class 3 pulled up off the west

0:57:13.790,0:57:16.410
coast from a depth of about 100 meters,

0:57:16.410,0:57:19.190
that could be ignited with old match.

0:57:19.190,0:57:19.470
Well,

0:57:19.470,0:57:22.830
we didn't get to the strange way [br]chlorinated substances playback

0:57:22.830,0:57:26.540
on other climate feedback in the [br]atmosphere plus and this is a

0:57:26.540,0:57:27.630
spoiler alert.

0:57:27.630,0:57:31.110
Scientists have discovered a way [br]the stratosphere can become

0:57:31.110,0:57:35.650
wetter as it did in past greenhouse [br]worlds many many hours flying

0:57:35.650,0:57:38.960
around the world found the stratosphere [br]has the same low amount of

0:57:38.960,0:57:40.440
water vapor.

0:57:40.440,0:57:42.290
But in a kink in the system.

0:57:42.290,0:57:45.900
A collision of weather factors over [br]the continental United States

0:57:46.240,0:57:50.430
creates an almost unique kind of heat [br]funnel that does inject more

0:57:50.430,0:57:52.460
water into the stratosphere.

0:57:52.460,0:57:56.410
There are several other sites like [br]that Anderson says they have

0:57:56.410,0:58:00.370
the mechanism that will wet down [br]the stratosphere over time,

0:58:00.370,0:58:03.800
as I say there's a huge range of [br]cutting science in the stock by

0:58:03.800,0:58:04.950
James Anderson.

0:58:04.950,0:58:08.400
Some of it is a little difficult [br]for the lay person to understand

0:58:08.400,0:58:10.650
, but most of it is very clear.

0:58:10.650,0:58:13.720
We learn of feedback switch make [br]this developing climate shift

0:58:14.180,0:58:18.060
into a major geological event [br]that cannot be reversed.

0:58:18.060,0:58:21.790
We have already gone over the climate [br]cliff he tells us how far we

0:58:21.930,0:58:25.590
fall depends on whether we can rein [br]in our fossil-fuel burning

0:58:25.700,0:58:29.970
emissions before they trigger much [br]much larger carbon or methane

0:58:29.970,0:58:34.940
inputs from the previously frozen [br]land and sea bed in the Arctic

0:58:35.600,0:58:38.940
find an easy link to this video presentation [br]at Harvard University

0:58:39.060,0:58:43.670
April 8 2015 in my shell [br]blog eco shock.info.

0:58:43.670,0:58:46.240
I'll also add my lengthy [br]notes to the blog,

0:58:46.240,0:58:50.840
which includes a few links and explanations [br]we've blown through

0:58:50.840,0:58:55.270
the time barrier again get all past [br]programs as free MP3s from our

0:58:55.270,0:58:59.780
website at shock.org listen any [br]time on the radio shock page on

0:58:59.860,0:59:01.990
sound cloud I'm Alex,