0:06:50.000,0:07:41.000
Do you think this is.

0:08:21.000,0:13:32.000
Maybe the ego shot.

0:14:12.000,0:01:03.000
Okay.

0:11:26.000,0:06:39.000
Welcome to Radio Eco shock this week,

0:06:39.000,0:00:43.000
we're going to investigate attempts [br]by the fossil fuel industry to

0:00:43.000,0:02:47.000
capture otherwise green thinking ports [br]in the Pacific Northwest of

0:02:47.000,0:07:51.000
the United States and Canada [br]to export carbon to Asia.

0:07:51.000,0:06:35.000
It's a battle you hardly hear about [br]citizens are lining up against

0:07:25.000,0:11:59.000
huge corporations with huge money [br]to fight off giant coal ports

0:16:19.000,0:12:34.000
liquefied natural gas ports even [br]propane ports if we commit to

0:12:34.000,0:14:28.000
that infrastructure we commit to [br]devastating climate change,

0:14:28.000,0:16:32.000
not to mention the explosive toxic [br]and polluting impacts of these

0:16:32.000,0:10:35.000
big projects on the Pacific coast.

0:10:35.000,0:16:49.000
It's species and its people will [br]first hear from activist Kevin

0:16:49.000,0:03:42.000
Walsh book reporting from Vancouver,

0:03:42.000,0:14:36.000
Canada and then from green radio host [br]and activist Daphne why from

0:16:26.000,0:08:47.000
Portland,

0:08:47.000,0:10:48.000
Oregon.

0:10:48.000,0:04:41.000
I'll wrap up with some new science [br]presented at a Harvard

0:04:41.000,0:12:55.000
University research talk Dr. James [br]Anderson presents why climate

0:12:55.000,0:14:16.000
change is coming,

0:14:16.000,0:01:51.000
much faster than anyone thought [br]possible and why it cannot be

0:01:51.000,0:12:05.000
reversed its eco shocking radio [br]I'm Alex Smith let's roll.

0:04:54.000,0:05:27.000
Multinational corporations would like [br]to turn the gorgeous port of

0:05:27.000,0:14:57.000
Vancouver,

0:14:57.000,0:05:22.000
Canada into another fossil fuel colony [br]after call port proposals

0:05:22.000,0:14:25.000
were blocked by a public outcry in [br]the American Pacific Northwest

0:02:46.000,0:06:29.000
they wanted to call out to Asia [br]through Vancouver there's an

0:06:29.000,0:18:12.000
active proposal to steer dirty [br]tar sands oil into hundreds of

0:01:53.000,0:13:56.000
tankers through Vancouver's scenic [br]inlets even liquid natural gas

0:13:56.000,0:14:10.000
is trying to use Vancouver as an [br]outlet we've reached activist

0:17:20.000,0:12:14.000
Kevin wash broken Vancouver he's [br]part of the group voters taking

0:12:14.000,0:14:08.000
action on climate change or veto [br]back Kevin welcome to Radio Rico

0:14:08.000,0:03:19.000
shock.

0:13:49.000,0:10:10.000
I think to be here.

0:04:31.000,0:08:04.000
Let's talk about call how big [br]is the export business from

0:08:04.000,0:16:34.000
Vancouver.

0:18:25.000,0:12:06.000
Well,

0:12:06.000,0:07:30.000
right now we have to fully functioning [br]courts one in North

0:08:10.000,0:18:04.000
Vancouver internal with which exports [br]exclusively be seen course

0:02:25.000,0:07:29.000
in the coup these and then Wes short [br]and so which is the biggest

0:07:29.000,0:18:42.000
coal in Canada and depending on [br]you know who was exporting more

0:18:42.000,0:12:24.000
it's often the biggest of the business.

0:12:24.000,0:08:18.000
Call for North America Neptune exports [br]around you know they export

0:09:48.000,0:09:41.000
around 6 million tons of [br]call the year there,

0:09:41.000,0:09:55.000
they're trying to expand that to larger [br]large volumes sure exports

0:09:55.000,0:06:29.000
in the order 30 to 33 million tons [br]of call the year and about

0:11:09.000,0:16:12.000
about 8 million tons of that call [br]is US thermal coal from the

0:17:12.000,0:13:13.000
Tiber River Basin.

0:10:34.000,0:17:27.000
While so they truck at all or would [br]they train at all the way up

0:02:48.000,0:06:29.000
from Wyoming.

0:06:29.000,0:18:49.000
I guess it is.

0:03:40.000,0:17:00.000
It is in there.

0:17:00.000,0:19:06.000
So it comes on Warren Buffett's [br]be NSF railroad up through semi

0:15:57.000,0:17:10.000
White Rock Crescent Beach all on [br]the water through there and then

0:18:00.000,0:07:14.000
up through around Monday and over [br]2 cops who were shorter.

0:04:05.000,0:14:56.000
Why to using American call for.

0:03:47.000,0:05:27.000
Well,

0:05:27.000,0:10:27.000
that's,

0:10:27.000,0:18:48.000
that's a good question their hair.

0:18:48.000,0:18:02.000
They were plans there were plans [br]for 6 coal ports on the US West

0:18:02.000,0:17:25.000
Coast is recently you know [br]3 or 4 years ago.

0:17:25.000,0:09:06.000
Yet,

0:09:06.000,0:08:59.000
although 2 of those projects have [br]either been completely have been

0:08:59.000,0:18:00.000
rejected or abandoned.

0:18:00.000,0:12:42.000
And the last 2.

0:12:42.000,0:15:55.000
The one in Oregon on the Columbia [br]River faces serious difficulties

0:17:55.000,0:16:29.000
because it's failed to receive keep [br]the last permanent through the

0:16:29.000,0:19:12.000
last project and the largest at [br]Cherry Point in Washington.

0:19:12.000,0:16:04.000
So just south of the border.

0:16:04.000,0:08:06.000
I'm also faces serious opposition,

0:08:06.000,0:05:39.000
including from the Lonnie nation [br]which is that right.

0:05:39.000,0:18:12.000
We reject this year after the so [br]public outcry public opposition

0:07:33.000,0:19:55.000
and really strong committee organizing [br]in the state has stopped

0:04:46.000,0:20:06.000
all these projects.

0:20:06.000,0:18:18.000
So that leaves DC.

0:18:18.000,0:06:21.000
You know it's sort of the backdoor.

0:06:21.000,0:11:45.000
But the dirty doormat for US call [br]on its way to Asia and so right

0:11:45.000,0:05:46.000
now there there.

0:05:46.000,0:18:19.000
They have been exporting this 7 million [br]tons a year for some time

0:18:19.000,0:10:33.000
70 million tons by way of comparison [br]the the Cherry Point

0:17:03.000,0:10:57.000
corporate proposal a delegation would [br]be about 48 million tons of

0:11:27.000,0:14:41.000
call here and there is this new proposal [br]to build a brand new coal

0:15:31.000,0:11:35.000
port on the fridge river in Surrey [br]export exclusively American

0:11:35.000,0:20:46.000
call 4 million times now,

0:20:46.000,0:20:27.000
probably more in the future.

0:15:48.000,0:07:29.000
Great.

0:07:29.000,0:04:33.000
So what problems do Coltrane [br]polls for local communities.

0:11:33.000,0:19:33.000
Well,

0:19:33.000,0:07:44.000
yeah,

0:07:44.000,0:12:34.000
that's a,

0:12:34.000,0:13:27.000
that's a good point you because [br]in a specially NBC and in Metro

0:14:17.000,0:06:40.000
they could because the other [br]support authority that has,

0:06:40.000,0:11:21.000
you know it's a federal agency.

0:11:21.000,0:12:42.000
It's,

0:12:42.000,0:20:42.000
it's sort of,

0:20:42.000,0:09:04.000
almost like a Crown corporation.

0:09:04.000,0:15:48.000
It's also regulator it has absolute [br]power over decision making on

0:15:48.000,0:16:52.000
Port Lands and that's by land basically [br]all along the waterline in

0:16:52.000,0:18:26.000
Metro Vancouver so they can approve [br]a coal port but they take no

0:18:26.000,0:11:40.000
responsibility for the external impacts [br]that generates in the when

0:11:40.000,0:06:04.000
you're mentioning now is key Coltrane [br]so-called trains going to

0:07:54.000,0:17:44.000
communities.

0:17:44.000,0:12:37.000
You know they're extremely loud and [br]they often travel at night and

0:16:27.000,0:18:50.000
the noise levels in these things [br]are over 100 decibels when the

0:21:00.000,0:14:13.000
but the way things are going [br]and that exceeds you know.

0:14:13.000,0:19:25.000
The World Health Organization says [br]nighttime noise levels should

0:19:25.000,0:12:09.000
be below 30 decibels for for young [br]people from the elderly for the

0:12:59.000,0:07:23.000
SEC others noisy also vibration and [br]you know that there's problems

0:07:23.000,0:20:46.000
and White Rock with the the cliff [br]faces slumping because of the

0:20:46.000,0:18:47.000
vibration.

0:18:47.000,0:16:19.000
There's also a lot of concern [br]over called us,

0:16:19.000,0:21:51.000
do you know we don't know how much [br]called us is lost in these

0:05:42.000,0:15:15.000
trains and we don't know what the [br]health impacts of law term

0:21:35.000,0:20:49.000
exposure to low levels of particular [br]are from the dust.

0:20:49.000,0:20:30.000
So that's an issue.

0:20:30.000,0:14:21.000
The biggest one,

0:14:21.000,0:06:43.000
the biggest concerns a diesel exhaust.

0:06:43.000,0:13:33.000
We know,

0:13:33.000,0:19:26.000
diesel exhaust is a carcinogen and [br]if a particular discrimination

0:15:47.000,0:13:40.000
and trains run you know within a [br]climate of a number of schools

0:13:40.000,0:13:12.000
and daycare senior centers,

0:13:12.000,0:18:25.000
they're already running now and [br]the planet it run more them so

0:10:26.000,0:20:37.000
people are rightly concerned [br]about always look.

0:22:08.000,0:17:42.000
How have activist raised Vancouver's [br]dirty coal profile in the

0:17:42.000,0:12:53.000
media there.

0:06:24.000,0:10:14.000
Yeah,

0:10:14.000,0:20:24.000
it's been,

0:20:24.000,0:07:46.000
it's been increasing process.

0:07:46.000,0:10:00.000
You know it well and in the fall [br]of 2012 a community member in

0:11:30.000,0:20:13.000
Surrey told me about these 2 proposals [br]for the expansion at

0:20:33.000,0:20:07.000
Neptune and the new call for answer [br]it for his 3 dogs and when I

0:20:07.000,0:15:38.000
look at the numbers,

0:15:38.000,0:19:31.000
if you added up all the proposed [br]capacity if all of that call is

0:21:11.000,0:17:12.000
exported.

0:17:12.000,0:18:04.000
It will be more global warming pollution,

0:18:04.000,0:12:46.000
then you know the Northern [br]Gateway pipeline.

0:12:46.000,0:13:37.000
It's a huge,

0:13:37.000,0:13:38.000
huge issue,

0:13:38.000,0:21:10.000
but it's all piecemeal and [br]it was under the radar.

0:21:10.000,0:21:45.000
So over the past 2.5 years we've [br]managed to raise the profile

0:07:26.000,0:18:19.000
immensely our organization and group [br]based in Surrey called even

0:20:19.000,0:10:33.000
call in dog within this year than [br]others it it's process of

0:10:33.000,0:18:15.000
working with local governments one by one,

0:18:15.000,0:12:59.000
getting them on board about the [br]issues having them caller put

0:13:49.000,0:20:52.000
forward motions calling for you know [br]proper public assessment or

0:21:13.000,0:08:08.000
health risk assessments of these [br]projects and we've actually

0:15:48.000,0:13:32.000
presented before Metro Vancouver and [br]the region eventually opposed

0:14:42.000,0:19:36.000
this Surrey outright various House [br]leaders you know climate

0:20:06.000,0:13:10.000
scientists leaders have all come out [br]saying their post in this for

0:13:10.000,0:08:14.000
everything from the BC nurses' union [br]to you then see credit union

0:08:14.000,0:09:28.000
to the fishermen's union too you [br]know to groups of said this is a

0:09:28.000,0:20:28.000
bad idea.

0:20:28.000,0:08:30.000
So you know,

0:08:30.000,0:20:12.000
we've held various rallies and events [br]and we've presented at the

0:20:12.000,0:17:24.000
Port Authority AGM and it's,

0:17:24.000,0:09:16.000
it's really a simple issue,

0:09:16.000,0:12:39.000
you know we're saying the Port Authority [br]can't make decisions that

0:12:39.000,0:10:42.000
affect our future as a region without [br]including Arsenal's decision

0:19:02.000,0:11:28.000
and they're an extremely arrogant [br]and remote organization so that

0:12:18.000,0:08:31.000
you know that the contrast is is [br]so stark that I think the media

0:10:11.000,0:21:13.000
understand this in the broader public [br]gets that you know you can't

0:09:34.000,0:13:07.000
do you think this anymore it's it's [br]you now in the 19th century

0:14:17.000,0:08:50.000
may not you know captains [br]of industry where we're,

0:08:50.000,0:13:11.000
we're a democratic society.

0:12:02.000,0:15:42.000
You know,

0:15:42.000,0:19:35.000
NASA scientist James Hansen famously [br]was arrested protesting

0:19:35.000,0:20:57.000
mountaintop removal for coal,

0:20:57.000,0:08:01.000
but in Vancouver I was tracked [br]east Simon Fraser University

0:08:01.000,0:10:04.000
professor and world energy expert [br]marked a card was arrested

0:12:54.000,0:22:15.000
blocking a coal train.

0:22:15.000,0:17:58.000
So it sounds like you are getting [br]significant by in there.

0:24:18.000,0:22:39.000
Yeah,

0:22:39.000,0:13:24.000
it's a pretty compelling story because [br]it's a very stark one you

0:13:24.000,0:12:27.000
know we know that we need to radically [br]reduce the use of fossil

0:13:27.000,0:22:39.000
fuels to avoid dangerous climate change,

0:22:39.000,0:12:03.000
and it's the one study after another [br]is coming out saying that you

0:12:03.000,0:16:04.000
know we could probably burn a bit more.

0:16:04.000,0:19:45.000
The oil and bit more a gas.

0:20:25.000,0:15:18.000
But we absolutely can't burn more coal.

0:15:18.000,0:11:51.000
You know 80% or more remain on the ground.

0:11:51.000,0:20:04.000
If women avoid blowing past any [br]sort of faith thresholds for

0:23:04.000,0:12:38.000
climate change and if that's the [br]case and I and I believe it's

0:13:28.000,0:19:58.000
true bits,

0:19:58.000,0:20:39.000
and I mean I've read,

0:20:39.000,0:22:22.000
then there is simply no valid argument [br]for building a new Cold War

0:24:52.000,0:17:05.000
anywhere in the world could when [br]she it they're gonna want you

0:17:35.000,0:08:46.000
that race.

0:08:46.000,0:23:38.000
So it's very black and white from [br]you know many things are in life

0:23:38.000,0:12:40.000
, but this is very black and white.

0:12:40.000,0:19:51.000
A new Cold War in Surrey.

0:19:51.000,0:19:22.000
It's a bad idea.

0:19:22.000,0:16:36.000
US thermal coal exports through measuring [br]Hoover is a bad idea and

0:16:36.000,0:11:49.000
it's something that we're standing [br]up and saying no to thing I

0:11:49.000,0:25:19.000
don't think this is right.

0:21:10.000,0:10:14.000
Trying to stop fossil fuel exports [br]is like playing the game

0:11:34.000,0:09:56.000
whack-a-mole you find one project,

0:09:56.000,0:17:39.000
then another one pops up like the [br]recent proposal to ship out

0:20:59.000,0:22:43.000
liquid natural gas via the historic [br]Fraser River tell us what's

0:24:13.000,0:19:04.000
happening there.

0:25:14.000,0:12:25.000
Well,

0:12:25.000,0:24:26.000
that's another at another [br]interesting thing,

0:24:26.000,0:20:17.000
I mean you know it,

0:20:17.000,0:13:09.000
what's kind of most interesting [br]about this,

0:13:09.000,0:16:09.000
you know,

0:16:09.000,0:11:42.000
I guess I should say most frustrating [br]is that there's no,

0:11:42.000,0:15:05.000
there's no real effort by government [br]to make people aware of these

0:15:55.000,0:23:38.000
things you know I literally stumbled [br]across this proposal because

0:23:38.000,0:21:42.000
I was on the BBC if I'm an assessment [br]project or office website,

0:21:42.000,0:19:26.000
and there's a new proposal recently [br]posted 4 from this US company

0:19:26.000,0:17:00.000
Westpac midstream to build an LNG [br]terminal on the afraid and if

0:17:00.000,0:21:21.000
you know where to look if you go there,

0:21:21.000,0:12:35.000
you can see that and you can make [br]comment but if you don't know.

0:12:35.000,0:15:07.000
You know I gonna find out and the [br]government doesn't go along the

0:15:07.000,0:26:10.000
Fraser and you know put up things [br]on billboards or or on telephone

0:10:41.000,0:18:51.000
poles and say,

0:18:51.000,0:24:52.000
are you concerned about this.

0:24:52.000,0:19:45.000
The federal government has given [br]us from you know this so that

0:20:15.000,0:18:29.000
this when they realize the certain [br]size they have to let the BBC

0:20:29.000,0:21:41.000
in federal government's now and the [br]government have to decide to

0:21:41.000,0:15:04.000
do an assessment or not so auto.

0:15:04.000,0:12:08.000
You know it's wisdom on May said [br]okay will accept comments from

0:12:08.000,0:20:41.000
the public until June 11 to help us [br]decide if we should even do an

0:20:41.000,0:24:32.000
assessment or not,

0:24:32.000,0:10:46.000
and furthermore if we should substitute [br]the provincial assessment

0:12:56.000,0:17:47.000
for the federal one.

0:17:47.000,0:19:19.000
So if you didn't go to the sea.

0:19:19.000,0:23:30.000
If they see a website.

0:23:30.000,0:14:14.000
The Canadian run of 72 website and [br]see that notice you would never

0:15:04.000,0:21:36.000
even known that there is a comment period.

0:21:36.000,0:13:00.000
It's very frustrating because you [br]know he's a big things and we

0:13:00.000,0:11:33.000
all need to have a say so ways [br]to back up to the proposal.

0:16:53.000,0:18:56.000
This is a plan for a brand new LNG [br]terminal on the Fraser River in

0:18:56.000,0:16:40.000
Delta BC next in the cement plants [br]Federer across the river and

0:16:40.000,0:23:33.000
just up just upstream from if you [br]know Richmond this sort of all

0:17:54.000,0:23:57.000
water mania and a big movie complex [br]and all that sort of stuff.

0:23:57.000,0:21:42.000
It would see 120 LNG tankers a year [br]and 90 L&G barges here and

0:22:02.000,0:19:05.000
going up and down the Fraser [br]River now in comparison.

0:19:05.000,0:24:48.000
Some people are somewhat more aware [br]of this proposal for wood

0:26:28.000,0:13:32.000
fiber LNG in squalor should have [br]a lot of press this proposal

0:17:42.000,0:14:36.000
Fraser will be 1.5 times as [br]large also in comparison.

0:14:36.000,0:18:10.000
The big Petronas Pacific Energy LNG [br]project in Prince Rupert would

0:18:10.000,0:22:11.000
be about 7 times larger,

0:22:11.000,0:22:03.000
so this is a fairly small project,

0:22:03.000,0:20:06.000
but it was they'll see a lot of [br]LNG tankers on the river the

0:20:06.000,0:21:38.000
proponent in this to me is typical bear.

0:21:38.000,0:18:41.000
You know the project summary description [br]and says we want a bogus

0:21:11.000,0:14:32.000
facility.

0:14:32.000,0:21:22.000
It's,

0:21:22.000,0:26:53.000
this is the footprint,

0:26:53.000,0:23:56.000
we're gonna look at an endangered [br]plants and archeological sites

0:23:56.000,0:23:18.000
and what not right here.

0:23:18.000,0:20:03.000
But once we sell that L&G and it [br]goes an LNG tanker it's someone

0:20:03.000,0:22:06.000
else's responsibility when I can [br]assess those risks a crazy.

0:22:06.000,0:16:09.000
You know that's absolutely crazy [br]and in the United States.

0:16:09.000,0:12:51.000
If you want to build an LNG terminal,

0:12:51.000,0:24:33.000
the Department of Homeland Security [br]and the Coast Guard require

0:26:23.000,0:21:17.000
you do connect a waterway suitability [br]assessment on the entire

0:26:47.000,0:14:31.000
tanker root out international [br]waters to a distance of 3.5

0:14:31.000,0:26:14.000
kilometers on each side because that's [br]how far you know I I think

0:26:14.000,0:13:00.000
that it cloud of be approaching travel [br]and still be explosive DC

0:15:50.000,0:12:11.000
that doesn't happen,

0:12:11.000,0:25:13.000
and there is no one asking [br]the fundamental questions.

0:25:13.000,0:20:04.000
The final question,

0:20:04.000,0:24:46.000
is it a good idea to go and [br]LNG terminal in the face.

0:24:46.000,0:11:57.000
Really.

0:11:57.000,0:13:00.000
They just simply must look and see [br]if this will endanger plants or

0:14:30.000,0:12:43.000
salmon or sturgeon at the [br]site of the facility.

0:12:43.000,0:14:26.000
It's a very narrow blinkered approach [br]to assessing these kinds of

0:14:26.000,0:20:56.000
projects.

0:12:27.000,0:25:50.000
Wait a minute you saying that a cloud [br]can come off of one of those

0:25:50.000,0:16:42.000
tankers if they were to leak.

0:16:42.000,0:23:42.000
There we go.

0:23:42.000,0:19:26.000
3.5 kilometers possibly on either [br]side of the river into an area

0:20:26.000,0:24:07.000
where millions of people live.

0:21:08.000,0:25:28.000
Yeah,

0:25:28.000,0:26:21.000
I know that's no okay so many [br]backup and and quite hot.

0:26:21.000,0:13:55.000
So in the United States there [br]there is a thing called Sandy

0:17:25.000,0:17:09.000
National Laboratory essay and DIA [br]and they conducted a study in

0:17:29.000,0:22:30.000
the mid 2000s that.

0:24:10.000,0:28:20.000
Said,

0:28:20.000,0:23:01.000
you know,

0:23:01.000,0:25:34.000
how are we going to assess the risks [br]from LNG tankers and and what

0:26:04.000,0:26:55.000
sort of garlands are you,

0:26:55.000,0:27:08.000
are we going to create seems so they said.

0:27:08.000,0:27:30.000
What's the worst case scenario.

0:27:30.000,0:13:11.000
Well,

0:13:11.000,0:15:14.000
the worst case scenario is you [br]know an intentional rupture of

0:15:14.000,0:14:19.000
containment of Ellen of all the [br]LNG vessels on a tanker from

0:15:19.000,0:20:21.000
something like a terrorist [br]attack or an explosion.

0:20:21.000,0:23:05.000
So in that worst case scenario what [br]hazards will be created and so

0:23:05.000,0:17:27.000
they said well within 5 kilometers.

0:17:27.000,0:22:27.000
You know,

0:22:27.000,0:18:41.000
everything would be burnt to a crisp [br]and and after 16 and I mean

0:20:21.000,0:26:04.000
you have burn hazards and and freezing [br]houses in these things and

0:26:04.000,0:28:25.000
he would decline over distance.

0:18:16.000,0:26:01.000
But if that cloud of LNG that is [br]free if Allen she didn't ignite

0:26:41.000,0:28:53.000
right away as it evaporate.

0:13:44.000,0:14:39.000
Soon turns to gas before dispersing [br]it can still be a risk of

0:16:09.000,0:27:41.000
producing a fireball up [br]to 3.5 kilometers away,

0:27:41.000,0:21:53.000
so for that worst case scenario,

0:21:53.000,0:14:07.000
we wouldn't require that L&G proponents [br]examine the risks all

0:15:17.000,0:25:29.000
along that 3 and half kilometer route [br]and we want to know if there

0:26:09.000,0:24:20.000
are people living there.

0:24:20.000,0:22:11.000
If there are,

0:22:11.000,0:22:33.000
you know if they're significant [br]infrastructure there.

0:22:33.000,0:28:04.000
If there are,

0:28:04.000,0:21:15.000
I know well,

0:21:15.000,0:29:08.000
sort of any sort of property or [br]public health and safety risks,

0:29:08.000,0:25:31.000
because you know that in the States [br]they say yet explicitly

0:25:31.000,0:21:03.000
examine the possibly of [br]a terrorist attack.

0:21:03.000,0:29:34.000
You've got a look at the [br]worst case scenario.

0:29:34.000,0:28:37.000
Don't see what could happen if one [br]of the things went badly wrong

0:20:48.000,0:18:41.000
while and with so that that's smart [br]to me you know you why you

0:18:41.000,0:22:34.000
wanna know what the risks are before [br]you privy sings before or

0:22:34.000,0:24:26.000
whoever prism in Canada,

0:24:26.000,0:28:19.000
there is no such requirement and [br]although looking at here is the

0:29:29.000,0:15:11.000
footprint of this facility.

0:15:11.000,0:28:21.000
And it's to me,

0:28:21.000,0:15:54.000
that's quite frankly because [br]you know I am,

0:15:54.000,0:24:16.000
I am no supporter of the [br]Harper government,

0:24:16.000,0:17:20.000
but I do know that they say that [br]the risk of terrorist threats

0:17:50.000,0:26:41.000
Israel on our soil.

0:26:41.000,0:29:11.000
Well,

0:29:11.000,0:24:54.000
if that's the case then why you [br]looking at the risks from

0:26:34.000,0:23:07.000
transporting an extremely volatile [br]substance in these battles

0:14:48.000,0:19:00.000
through highly populated [br]areas I just make sense.

0:18:41.000,0:23:41.000
Well,

0:23:41.000,0:21:32.000
Kevin washed brick.

0:21:32.000,0:27:25.000
We know there are quite a few environmentally [br]conscious voters in

0:27:25.000,0:24:28.000
the Vancouver region do you worry though,

0:24:28.000,0:24:53.000
that your work to stop these proposals [br]will push fossil fuels

0:28:43.000,0:30:26.000
further north along the coast to [br]swarms or to northern ports,

0:30:26.000,0:27:48.000
like Prince Rupert or killed a man.

0:15:59.000,0:18:50.000
That's events in question.

0:18:50.000,0:18:21.000
I don't think so,

0:18:21.000,0:31:03.000
I think you know those [br]projects in the north.

0:31:03.000,0:18:06.000
Local people they're gonna [br]make their own assessment,

0:18:06.000,0:15:59.000
I mean I know my thoughts are in terms [br]of the risks to the climate

0:20:19.000,0:14:53.000
from L&G interims of what groups [br]like the CCP in the pen.

0:14:53.000,0:28:56.000
The news you have figured out but [br]local populations are gonna

0:22:57.000,0:19:38.000
Broadway and assess.

0:20:18.000,0:18:41.000
The local rescue themselves and I [br]and I respect their ability to

0:18:41.000,0:31:13.000
do that and their and their interest [br]in the non-I think what's

0:31:13.000,0:25:06.000
going on here is that you know people [br]down here are very aware

0:27:36.000,0:19:30.000
that there are these big projects [br]proposed up north weather's L&G

0:16:11.000,0:28:23.000
you know it's been pipelines and [br]we often don't feel like we can

0:28:23.000,0:27:24.000
have any for say,

0:27:24.000,0:16:17.000
and in this kind of future for BC,

0:16:17.000,0:23:58.000
but in fact metro Vancouver.

0:23:58.000,0:25:52.000
We really are on the front lines [br]of the fossil fuel debate in

0:25:52.000,0:31:14.000
export debate because we have proposals [br]for the Kinder Morgan

0:31:54.000,0:26:05.000
pipeline,

0:26:05.000,0:26:27.000
we've got a proposal for a new coal ports.

0:26:27.000,0:31:11.000
Now we have a proposal for well for [br]the L&G Fraser and the LNG and

0:31:11.000,0:27:35.000
squeamish so people realize is that [br]there's a lot at stake here

0:28:25.000,0:16:08.000
and they are then it's more accessible,

0:16:08.000,0:21:40.000
it's here you know you can have more [br]to say you can get engaged in

0:21:40.000,0:29:00.000
the debate.

0:29:00.000,0:20:32.000
And you can learn more about it,

0:20:32.000,0:25:55.000
so I don't think it'll pushing the [br]way I think there's so many

0:15:56.000,0:29:49.000
companies trying to push for so [br]many projects at once that like

0:29:49.000,0:17:30.000
you said,

0:17:30.000,0:22:32.000
it's a bit of a lot more they're gonna [br]pop up where they feel like

0:22:32.000,0:25:33.000
there's a possibility.

0:17:44.000,0:19:57.000
Where editor group voters taking [br]action on climate change.

0:19:57.000,0:24:20.000
Find most of its support to young [br]people show up just older folks

0:25:30.000,0:31:51.000
tell us about your supporters.

0:18:22.000,0:31:02.000
That's,

0:31:02.000,0:19:03.000
yeah,

0:19:03.000,0:31:23.000
it's insane.

0:31:23.000,0:21:06.000
So you know most of our [br]work is done online,

0:21:06.000,0:31:59.000
really we we engage with the public [br]through you know you social

0:31:59.000,0:32:10.000
media.

0:32:10.000,0:17:02.000
When we do events,

0:17:02.000,0:20:14.000
I mean we always work with other [br]groups we do events too.

0:20:14.000,0:27:04.000
So it's,

0:27:04.000,0:21:47.000
it's hard to say who's coming from [br]where about it really is a

0:21:47.000,0:32:07.000
cross section,

0:32:07.000,0:27:10.000
there's a lot of older concerned [br]folks and there's also a lot of

0:27:10.000,0:29:32.000
young people we work a lot with [br]a group called Kids for climate

0:30:42.000,0:21:14.000
action on events that,

0:21:14.000,0:26:56.000
and they'd rather their sort [br]of a high school audience.

0:26:56.000,0:22:57.000
I think the.

0:22:57.000,0:25:00.000
I think the concern is widespread [br]view whether it's because you're

0:26:40.000,0:17:13.000
worried about you know the local [br]environmental whether you're

0:18:33.000,0:18:35.000
worried about your future.

0:18:35.000,0:24:58.000
There's something to be concerned [br]about your think I guess for all

0:24:58.000,0:30:58.000
ages.

0:22:49.000,0:19:21.000
And so the tack.

0:19:21.000,0:19:34.000
What do you think other communities [br]say in the United States or

0:20:54.000,0:30:47.000
Britain or elsewhere could learn [br]from the way you're group has

0:30:47.000,0:17:29.000
formed and operated.

0:32:09.000,0:22:40.000
Well,

0:22:40.000,0:24:51.000
interesting.

0:24:51.000,0:23:24.000
I think you know our our whole [br]focus is trying to create

0:23:54.000,0:30:46.000
opportunities for the public [br]to express their concern.

0:30:46.000,0:26:40.000
The government we train connected [br]off between climate policy and

0:28:00.000,0:21:25.000
fossil fuel exports that put climate [br]at risk because the climate

0:21:55.000,0:27:47.000
policy discussion are often pretty [br]abstract like the thing that's

0:28:47.000,0:30:59.000
happened recently with perhaps Harper [br]have been saying that they

0:32:49.000,0:23:54.000
agreed to eliminate fossil fuels [br]by 2100 well 84 years and now no

0:23:54.000,0:22:26.000
one's gonna be here is alive now and.

0:22:26.000,0:26:29.000
And that's just an absurd abstract [br]discussion we have real

0:26:29.000,0:18:32.000
products right here right now there [br]are threatening our climate.

0:18:32.000,0:20:13.000
So I think,

0:20:13.000,0:18:36.000
creating opportunities for the [br]public to engage in explicit

0:20:06.000,0:18:47.000
concerns are key.

0:18:47.000,0:22:00.000
And you know we've got a lot through [br]public commenting websites

0:23:10.000,0:33:12.000
like right now for the L&G think [br]we've set up a website called

0:25:53.000,0:32:17.000
real LNG hearings.org and that brings [br]together all the information

0:32:17.000,0:25:01.000
on the Fraser River LNG proposal [br]and there's a commenting tool.

0:25:01.000,0:26:04.000
Also you can send a message directly [br]to the federal and run a

0:26:04.000,0:18:45.000
minister,

0:18:45.000,0:23:16.000
it's easy to local government.

0:23:16.000,0:32:19.000
So my experience is that people care [br]and they want to take action

0:32:19.000,0:25:50.000
. You know,

0:25:50.000,0:29:23.000
they may think that they don't know [br]how or they don't know during

0:29:23.000,0:29:26.000
the time so you create an opportunity [br]put all the information.

0:29:26.000,0:19:48.000
One place that people want to act.

0:19:48.000,0:27:49.000
I guess just empowering people,

0:27:49.000,0:32:30.000
that's the key empowering people.

0:25:11.000,0:21:24.000
Can you give us your website address [br]or your Facebook page.

0:27:54.000,0:18:05.000
Sure.

0:18:05.000,0:30:29.000
Our website is BT ACC.org [br]that's a website.

0:30:29.000,0:27:00.000
But the key,

0:27:00.000,0:29:12.000
we're really focusing [br]right now and on LNG.

0:29:12.000,0:28:55.000
And so that's 3 real LNG hearings.org.

0:20:26.000,0:25:36.000
Great,

0:25:36.000,0:19:47.000
thank you so much.

0:19:47.000,0:18:20.000
I guess Kevin washed Brooke is [br]an activist in Vancouver,

0:18:20.000,0:29:50.000
Canada.

0:29:50.000,0:21:24.000
As part of the group voters taking [br]action on climate change.

0:21:24.000,0:21:45.000
I appreciate your time.

0:21:45.000,0:26:25.000
Kevin.

0:27:05.000,0:19:16.000
You're welcome.

0:19:16.000,0:21:46.000
Take.

0:30:18.000,0:23:09.000
We will.

0:34:19.000,0:21:22.000
You're listening to shot radio.

0:34:32.000,0:28:03.000
I don't worry.

0:22:45.000,0:19:49.000
I'm Alex meth at all their [br]vehicle shock.org.

0:33:30.000,0:28:34.000
What is happening on the US West Coast [br]where fossil fuel companies

0:28:34.000,0:22:57.000
raised export carbon to Asia.

0:22:57.000,0:31:29.000
Let's tune in with a long-time [br]friend of the environment.

0:31:29.000,0:27:03.000
Daphne why for 8 years [br]out of Washington DC,

0:27:03.000,0:19:04.000
Daphne,

0:19:04.000,0:23:57.000
host of the syndicated radio show [br]Earth beat on the Pacifica

0:27:27.000,0:21:31.000
network her articles have been published [br]by both mainstream and

0:23:31.000,0:33:43.000
alternative media now [br]Japanese in Portland,

0:33:43.000,0:30:04.000
Oregon.

0:30:04.000,0:23:18.000
As the director of the climate and [br]energy program at the Center

0:23:18.000,0:20:11.000
for sustainable economy at the same time,

0:20:11.000,0:34:04.000
she's an associate fellow at the [br]Institute for Policy Studies.

0:34:04.000,0:24:45.000
Daphne.

0:24:45.000,0:23:08.000
It's so good to hear your voice [br]again on Radio Echo shock,

0:23:08.000,0:34:58.000
welcome back.

0:25:29.000,0:20:50.000
Thanks so much.

0:20:50.000,0:23:41.000
Alex is going to be here.

0:20:32.000,0:23:26.000
You know I were just on post carbon [br]radio on K W M are in Northern

0:23:26.000,0:22:07.000
California with.

0:22:47.000,0:27:31.000
Bing Gong and current IOS it was [br]a wide-ranging talk I'd like in

0:27:31.000,0:35:14.000
this instance to drill down to [br]what's happening in Portland.

0:35:14.000,0:33:15.000
The state of Oregon,

0:33:15.000,0:27:17.000
maybe the Pacific Northwest.

0:27:17.000,0:34:50.000
When it comes to transporting fossil [br]fuels are you up for that.

0:33:21.000,0:26:22.000
I dream.

0:20:23.000,0:27:33.000
All right.

0:27:33.000,0:22:26.000
Why don't we start with Portland [br]what battles have been fought

0:22:26.000,0:24:09.000
their recently against becoming [br]a dirty carbon outlet.

0:31:00.000,0:35:10.000
Well,

0:35:10.000,0:29:14.000
one thing that people may not realize [br]is that not only Portland,

0:29:14.000,0:30:25.000
Oregon.

0:30:25.000,0:33:26.000
Barry hit city.

0:33:26.000,0:22:01.000
It also happened to be one of the [br]first cities in the first city

0:22:01.000,0:33:34.000
in the United States to put in place [br]a climate action plan back in

0:33:34.000,0:35:08.000
the early 1990s Portland decided that [br]it really needed to take the

0:35:08.000,0:29:02.000
climate crisis seriously an admirable,

0:29:02.000,0:32:46.000
the city had largely been ahead of [br]the curve for the rest of the

0:34:36.000,0:30:31.000
country and who has a reputation [br]intact was recognized by the

0:30:31.000,0:35:55.000
White House's so-called climate [br]championships last December,

0:35:55.000,0:34:30.000
despite its reputation or perhaps [br]in addition to that reputation.

0:34:30.000,0:28:26.000
The measure decided that it was going [br]to be a good idea to invite

0:32:06.000,0:36:30.000
one of the biggest tar sands pipeline [br]operators in the Canadian

0:26:21.000,0:24:15.000
out Penn Beantown Pipeline Corporation [br]to set up shop in

0:30:25.000,0:27:30.000
Portland's harbors and they wanted [br]to export propane from the

0:29:30.000,0:32:34.000
terminal here in Portland he welcomed [br]them with open arms.

0:32:34.000,0:23:10.000
A lot of us began to organize cried [br]foul and at the time of this

0:30:10.000,0:24:21.000
interview.

0:24:21.000,0:23:35.000
We seem to have one were reluctant [br]to completely declare victory

0:25:45.000,0:32:49.000
because this corporation have bottomless [br]pockets and is doing all

0:32:49.000,0:21:35.000
it can do you fight back but we we [br]need to campaign both based on

0:21:35.000,0:23:01.000
both safety issues climate issues [br]and we generated thousands of

0:23:01.000,0:31:26.000
letters and very creative involvement [br]from a wide array of folks

0:32:26.000,0:22:38.000
here in in the city,

0:22:38.000,0:30:33.000
including Rani basically first activists [br]and people taking over

0:31:03.000,0:23:18.000
City Council hearings and we finally [br]got our message across and it

0:23:18.000,0:28:02.000
appears that time you know it is [br]not going to be welcome anymore

0:31:32.000,0:27:24.000
in in the city of Portland.

0:27:24.000,0:21:48.000
We want to use this victory though [br]not just to say no one in our

0:22:28.000,0:29:09.000
backyard,

0:29:09.000,0:35:34.000
but also to alert people [br]to just how insane.

0:35:34.000,0:28:09.000
It is to be pushing forward with fossil [br]fuel infrastructure in the

0:29:39.000,0:35:10.000
Pacific Northwest.

0:35:10.000,0:29:35.000
They have been the imperative that [br]we begin to ratchet down our

0:32:15.000,0:29:07.000
overall greenhouse gas emissions.

0:29:07.000,0:29:28.000
Not only the northwest,

0:29:28.000,0:34:32.000
but globally and to draw attention [br]to the fact that the Pacific

0:34:32.000,0:22:47.000
Northwest right now is in the [br]crosshairs of the fossil fuel

0:22:47.000,0:32:27.000
industry.

0:32:27.000,0:24:33.000
They want to export 5 times the carbon [br]and is now being proposed

0:26:33.000,0:32:18.000
for the Keystone XL pipeline through [br]our reports in Oregon and

0:32:58.000,0:27:44.000
Washington is and very few people [br]are aware of just how serious

0:31:14.000,0:25:10.000
this however it is to our economy [br]to iron beautiful rivers and

0:25:10.000,0:36:20.000
lakes and

0:29:12.000,0:27:16.000
outside of the northwest of course [br]hero at the norms and trying to

0:28:16.000,0:34:00.000
take on one proposal after another [br]that comes down the pike.

0:34:00.000,0:35:53.000
So rather than just playing whack-a-mole [br]they which is sort of

0:37:33.000,0:29:06.000
what a lot of groups have been doing it,

0:29:06.000,0:32:50.000
you stop one project popped up [br]an unemployed we've decided to

0:32:50.000,0:25:26.000
declare a ban on all new fossil [br]fuel infrastructure starting in

0:25:26.000,0:33:20.000
Portland and then moving out to the [br]rest of Oregon and the rest of

0:33:20.000,0:38:45.000
the northwest and we should be getting [br]a hearing over the coming

0:38:45.000,0:36:41.000
year by city officials around this [br]call we want no fossil fuel

0:38:41.000,0:27:05.000
exports and no new fossil fuel [br]infrastructure in the city.

0:27:05.000,0:36:47.000
So that's our campaign and and [br]I think we have a pretty good

0:37:47.000,0:31:28.000
chance of winning.

0:26:19.000,0:29:59.000
Yeah,

0:29:59.000,0:37:20.000
it would be such a different story.

0:37:20.000,0:33:54.000
If you're exporting solar panels [br]in bulk or wind machines.

0:28:05.000,0:23:46.000
Sure,

0:23:46.000,0:29:16.000
yeah,

0:29:16.000,0:37:49.000
I mean we would love to be doing [br]something along those lines,

0:37:49.000,0:32:34.000
and in fact that's that's the vision [br]that Portland quite action

0:32:34.000,0:40:18.000
plan today called for which is you [br]know I get under way ahead of

0:40:18.000,0:27:43.000
the curve trying to push for by [br]Kabul and walkable cities could

0:30:03.000,0:36:56.000
drastically reducing greenhouse [br]gas emissions increasing public

0:38:46.000,0:33:47.000
transit.

0:33:47.000,0:36:19.000
So it just doesn't make sense.

0:36:19.000,0:35:43.000
We found that the emissions from [br]Justice Warren propane terminal

0:38:13.000,0:36:38.000
alone over several decades would be [br]larger than the entire city of

0:38:08.000,0:39:31.000
Portland's emissions if if our missions [br]were to continue to go

0:39:31.000,0:30:02.000
down.

0:30:02.000,0:34:56.000
So I just didn't make sense from [br]a climate action perspective to

0:35:36.000,0:39:58.000
be proceeding with this this terminal.

0:29:49.000,0:33:59.000
Right.

0:33:59.000,0:26:02.000
It's almost like changing your light [br]bulbs at home but along a

0:26:02.000,0:25:44.000
coal plant to be built next door.

0:25:44.000,0:33:25.000
So as you know.

0:33:25.000,0:32:18.000
Billionaire Warren Buffet is having [br]a hard time finding a place to

0:32:48.000,0:27:32.000
unload his call trains [br]for shipping to China,

0:27:32.000,0:26:36.000
what have you heard about new coal [br]ports in the Pacific Northwest

0:26:36.000,0:29:37.000
. Well,

0:29:37.000,0:33:47.000
you know,

0:33:47.000,0:36:31.000
there's been quite a few proposals [br]all export terminals in the

0:36:31.000,0:33:36.000
Pacific Northwest and almost all [br]of them have been defeated.

0:33:36.000,0:30:57.000
We have 2,

0:30:57.000,0:39:59.000
there are still on the table,

0:39:59.000,0:38:43.000
one in Long View Washington [br]and one in Cherry Point:

0:38:43.000,0:40:19.000
both are for over 40 million tons [br]of coal exports per year they

0:40:19.000,0:40:24.000
won in Cherry Point Washington is [br]on Native American land on the

0:41:24.000,0:33:56.000
only land and they are,

0:33:56.000,0:39:41.000
they are fighting and waging a very [br]serious battle against that

0:25:12.000,0:35:35.000
call export terminal because they [br]argue that it would violate

0:37:15.000,0:32:30.000
their treaties and would affect [br]their fisheries the other

0:32:30.000,0:27:45.000
proposals that have been tabled [br]by up and down the the Columbia

0:27:45.000,0:36:47.000
River have have been withdrawn,

0:36:47.000,0:32:11.000
essentially by the investors [br]over the past 5 years,

0:32:11.000,0:30:55.000
you may have to do with the fact that [br]call increasingly has become

0:33:15.000,0:35:17.000
less and less profitable,

0:35:17.000,0:33:31.000
we also suspect it has something [br]to do with the fact that these

0:34:51.000,0:40:07.000
very same terminal began to look [br]attractive for oil exports.

0:40:07.000,0:26:22.000
Soon as we get rid of a of a coal [br]terminal an oil terminal as

0:26:22.000,0:39:02.000
proposed,

0:39:02.000,0:40:16.000
in fact the largest oil terminal [br]in the entire United States is

0:40:46.000,0:36:30.000
being proposed right across the river [br]from Portland in the event

0:37:30.000,0:26:57.000
Koura Washington and that battle [br]is now being wedged between on

0:26:57.000,0:26:08.000
the one hand,

0:26:08.000,0:39:02.000
there's any plan for a major development [br]on the riverfront that a

0:39:02.000,0:27:16.000
lot of people are very excited [br]to see happen with you know

0:30:36.000,0:27:50.000
condominiums and businesses ride [br]along the river and should this

0:28:10.000,0:36:54.000
oil terminal get built there that [br]project will not go forward.

0:36:54.000,0:32:49.000
So there's a lot of tension between [br]those 2 different types of

0:34:29.000,0:42:40.000
development that have being proposed.

0:42:40.000,0:39:21.000
But you know,

0:39:21.000,0:30:43.000
over and over again.

0:30:43.000,0:30:04.000
These oil,

0:30:04.000,0:33:49.000
gas and coal corporations are using [br]very sneaky tactics they'll

0:33:49.000,0:36:11.000
claim for example,

0:36:11.000,0:42:45.000
one of the ways 30 oil company managed [br]to get the Bakken crude

0:27:36.000,0:35:29.000
managed to be exported along [br]the Columbia River,

0:35:29.000,0:32:51.000
they got me a port,

0:32:51.000,0:35:15.000
claiming it was going to be used [br]as a bio refinery the bio

0:37:25.000,0:41:38.000
refinery went bankrupt and there [br]and once they had already gotten

0:42:38.000,0:32:42.000
the amended for the bio refinery [br]they changed it to an oil

0:32:42.000,0:41:05.000
terminal so there's all sorts [br]of tricky schemes that these

0:42:55.000,0:43:18.000
industries are using outright lies,

0:43:18.000,0:32:00.000
claiming that they are,

0:32:00.000,0:37:30.000
you know,

0:37:30.000,0:43:03.000
for example in the case of the propane [br]terminal they claimed it

0:27:14.000,0:36:58.000
was going to be used for the women [br]to cook with him in Asia,

0:36:58.000,0:34:42.000
we found that in fact it was on the [br]used to be making proclaiming

0:37:52.000,0:31:26.000
and plastics and nothing to do with [br]the alleviating the poverty

0:40:46.000,0:38:08.000
were women in in Asia.

0:38:08.000,0:40:11.000
So you know we have to be on our [br]guard against these companies

0:40:41.000,0:28:22.000
there,

0:28:22.000,0:33:06.000
they're using every strategy they [br]can Oregon apparently is number

0:33:06.000,0:27:40.000
3 nationally as a target for Alex funds,

0:27:40.000,0:32:14.000
that's one of the right wing anti-environmental [br]and and climate

0:33:34.000,0:34:38.000
denialist groups that's been pushing [br]a a very strong legislative

0:34:38.000,0:34:22.000
agenda in favor of big energy and [br]they're going up oil you know.

0:34:22.000,0:41:32.000
So we're,

0:41:32.000,0:34:25.000
we're really fighting on all [br]fronts here in the north.

0:34:56.000,0:40:07.000
Now going ask you about that.

0:40:07.000,0:43:00.000
I mean whenever big oil money [br]comes into an area.

0:43:00.000,0:34:13.000
There's a chance for corruption [br]and certainly you can woo

0:34:13.000,0:31:27.000
politicians with the ideas of more [br]jobs and a better economy,

0:31:27.000,0:42:31.000
and eventually I wonder is it even [br]compatible with local democracy

0:28:42.000,0:28:16.000
and and freedom to in your area to [br]allow these companies to come

0:28:16.000,0:32:18.000
in and start working the [br]way you're describing.

0:30:19.000,0:30:31.000
Well that's that's compared threat.

0:30:31.000,0:29:45.000
I think that's that's looming for [br]region is you know it's yet to

0:29:45.000,0:37:59.000
potentially will change the and not [br]just the political nature of

0:38:29.000,0:34:20.000
this region,

0:34:20.000,0:42:02.000
but you know the entire economy.

0:42:02.000,0:43:36.000
It was shaped in a completely different [br]direction when we start

0:43:36.000,0:42:11.000
welcoming in trains and trains [br]and terminals and refineries

0:38:32.000,0:34:36.000
suddenly start looking a lot more [br]like Texas than Oregon both

0:35:16.000,0:41:29.000
politically and you know environmentally [br]and that's certainly not

0:43:49.000,0:36:02.000
what a lot of people moved [br]to the Pacific Northwest.

0:36:02.000,0:31:16.000
His experience and that the [br]values of the northwest,

0:31:16.000,0:34:00.000
but you know we have in addition [br]to the the traditional political

0:34:00.000,0:44:40.000
concerns.

0:44:40.000,0:37:14.000
There's also of course the concerns [br]that Native Americans have

0:37:14.000,0:33:09.000
around preserving their trade is [br]a concern has been without a

0:34:39.000,0:44:53.000
court and try to get these treaties [br]upheld for Native Americans is

0:45:23.000,0:41:47.000
that in some cases if they lose [br]their truly get weekend.

0:41:47.000,0:44:11.000
So it's a great at great risk that [br]they go to court and try to get

0:45:41.000,0:33:36.000
these treaties upheld and that's [br]another potential setback that

0:35:36.000,0:39:57.000
unfortunately once again.

0:39:57.000,0:41:30.000
Native Americans have an awful [br]lot to lose in this battle.

0:38:01.000,0:41:45.000
This is Radio Eco shark with Augusta [br]long time Green radio host

0:43:25.000,0:32:10.000
and activist Stephanie Weisz another [br]big do you know Darfuris is

0:32:40.000,0:38:23.000
to announce massive liquid [br]natural gas terminals.

0:38:23.000,0:41:45.000
We've got a government [br]in British Columbia,

0:41:45.000,0:35:49.000
the got elected promising all the [br]jobs in the money and and you

0:35:49.000,0:31:12.000
know our budget would be totally [br]balanced once we get these LNG

0:32:32.000,0:40:22.000
plants,

0:40:22.000,0:46:03.000
which have not materialized.

0:46:03.000,0:32:15.000
Incidentally,

0:32:15.000,0:43:27.000
what about LNG in the Pacific Northwest.

0:37:28.000,0:41:08.000
Well,

0:41:08.000,0:39:12.000
that's another big battle that we're [br]facing right now we've got 2

0:40:22.000,0:38:57.000
major pipelines being proposed just [br]for Oregon one in southern

0:38:57.000,0:37:00.000
Oregon that they want to build its over$7

0:37:10.000,0:36:45.000
billion pipeline that they want to [br]build through the southern part

0:36:45.000,0:41:50.000
of Oregon and then have the export [br]terminal export LNG from coups

0:42:30.000,0:45:44.000
they Oregon and another one in northern [br]Oregon and Washington,

0:45:44.000,0:38:19.000
Oregon and both of these [br]projects would involved.

0:38:19.000,0:35:10.000
Of course,

0:35:10.000,0:34:45.000
massive equation land that a [br]lot of it in private hands.

0:34:45.000,0:35:48.000
And in many cases they are claiming,

0:35:48.000,0:45:50.000
eminent domain.

0:45:50.000,0:35:26.000
You know as an argument in favor [br]of her example 10 about$25,000

0:40:56.000,0:44:27.000
per acre,

0:44:27.000,0:40:42.000
which is way below the market value [br]due to land borders and the

0:40:42.000,0:37:06.000
irony in this is that many of these [br]LNG companies are actually

0:38:46.000,0:40:29.000
foreign owned and they're [br]claiming eminent domain,

0:40:29.000,0:32:02.000
which is you know of course [br]it's for export.

0:32:02.000,0:43:55.000
So a lot of people that I was lifting [br]these LNG terminals are

0:44:55.000,0:32:06.000
saying,

0:32:06.000,0:35:16.000
you know,

0:35:16.000,0:42:56.000
how,

0:42:56.000,0:44:21.000
how can he possibly be using a law [br]that was created to develop

0:44:21.000,0:39:46.000
infrastructure for people in the United [br]States taking on land away

0:39:46.000,0:33:21.000
from us in order to facilitate the [br]profits of foreign corporations

0:36:01.000,0:33:15.000
that are just bypassing all of our [br]our legal structures in order

0:33:15.000,0:36:29.000
to to build this pipeline and exported [br]it to other countries.

0:36:29.000,0:42:20.000
So there's a lot of resistance.

0:42:20.000,0:37:21.000
But again,

0:37:21.000,0:42:25.000
not with so much money on achieve [br]all a lot of politicians are

0:34:16.000,0:47:47.000
lining up to support this,

0:47:47.000,0:40:22.000
and certainly our local paper [br]The Oregonian seems to be

0:33:24.000,0:39:07.000
completely in the pocket of the fossil [br]fuel industry which written

0:39:07.000,0:36:30.000
editorials saying that climate [br]change is not a concern for

0:37:00.000,0:43:14.000
Oregonian Gennaro regularly trumpeting [br]all the benefits of these

0:43:54.000,0:48:15.000
fossil fuel exports.

0:48:15.000,0:44:57.000
So we're in a bit of a,

0:44:57.000,0:35:08.000
you know,

0:35:08.000,0:41:50.000
in a bit of a of a war [br]here in the northwest.

0:41:50.000,0:45:04.000
In terms of both keeping people [br]informed about what's really

0:45:04.000,0:46:38.000
happening and and taking you know [br]holding our elected officials

0:48:28.000,0:38:49.000
accountable.

0:37:40.000,0:40:02.000
Does the state of Oregon allow fracas.

0:39:23.000,0:36:50.000
Now it has not banned tracking [br]this actually did come up this

0:36:50.000,0:40:44.000
year and that there wasn't a bill [br]that originally was going to ban

0:40:44.000,0:42:58.000
for acting and then it sort of morphed [br]into regulating tracking

0:46:48.000,0:41:41.000
and that created a huge uproar where [br]people said no we don't want

0:41:41.000,0:34:32.000
to regulate it.

0:34:32.000,0:40:55.000
We want ban it out outcry currently [br]there as far as I know there's

0:43:05.000,0:36:40.000
very little in the way of any sort [br]of gas exploitable gas reserves

0:36:40.000,0:43:03.000
anywhere in Oregon but I think he [br]would have an awfully hard time

0:47:03.000,0:46:24.000
for hacking in Oregon.

0:46:25.000,0:35:47.000
Well that's good to hear now Daphne,

0:35:47.000,0:37:21.000
I know you continue to keep track [br]of US national policy as well.

0:37:21.000,0:41:54.000
What do you make of President Obama [br]taking you know he talks

0:43:04.000,0:34:58.000
strongly about climate change and [br]any approves exploration for

0:35:58.000,0:42:21.000
more fossil fuels in the fragile [br]Arctic by Shell Oil.

0:36:32.000,0:34:34.000
You know you're getting as good as mine.

0:34:34.000,0:34:39.000
Alex I'm I'm just mystified at [br]you know how he can not take

0:42:29.000,0:44:00.000
especially of late.

0:44:40.000,0:39:52.000
In his last 2 years in office,

0:39:52.000,0:38:46.000
where I think it's so much more freely [br]disputed boldly about the

0:39:56.000,0:46:59.000
climate crisis and seems to [br]be taking an awful lot of

0:39:30.000,0:39:32.000
opportunities to speak out on it.

0:39:32.000,0:45:05.000
Why he would on the one hand take these,

0:45:05.000,0:34:16.000
you know,

0:34:16.000,0:46:19.000
take these actions do for example [br]restrict coal-fired power plant

0:46:19.000,0:35:34.000
emissions and and increase [br]energy efficient,

0:35:34.000,0:49:37.000
fuel-efficient automobiles and then [br]at the same time allow for

0:49:37.000,0:36:32.000
Arctic drilling and massive oil [br]and gas chemical exports.

0:36:32.000,0:35:56.000
I suppose it may have something [br]to do with the fact that he was

0:37:16.000,0:36:40.000
the number one recipient of BP's [br]funds when he was running for

0:39:10.000,0:43:01.000
office.

0:43:01.000,0:37:16.000
I don't know if he's still feeling [br]beholden to his donors.

0:37:16.000,0:39:20.000
It's really hard to understand why [br]he why he is acting only hears

0:39:20.000,0:36:13.000
. And again on the international front.

0:36:13.000,0:35:24.000
I was disappointed.

0:35:24.000,0:46:35.000
The leaders of industrial countries,

0:46:35.000,0:42:09.000
the G7 could only promise an end to [br]carbon emissions by the end of

0:42:09.000,0:40:51.000
this century 85 years away.

0:40:51.000,0:41:04.000
That's way too late to avoid [br]catastrophic climate change.

0:41:04.000,0:36:45.000
What do you think.

0:48:45.000,0:41:56.000
That's right,

0:41:56.000,0:46:21.000
I mean we had a proposal that whereas [br]the Germans and the G7 were

0:48:01.000,0:36:57.000
trying to you get indeed curb innovation [br]of all other G7 economies

0:42:27.000,0:50:12.000
by 20-50 and the Canadians and [br]the Japanese pushed back on

0:50:42.000,0:44:24.000
urgently and said no,

0:44:24.000,0:45:39.000
but we were sign on to do carbon [br]the station by 2100 of course is

0:46:39.000,0:36:21.000
a non-binding agreement.

0:36:21.000,0:39:04.000
So even if it were 2050 it would be,

0:39:04.000,0:49:39.000
wouldn't be all that that exciting [br]but 2100 it is still far out

0:35:00.000,0:50:23.000
you know past it the lifetime of [br]any of these folks at the table

0:35:14.000,0:50:16.000
and I'm sure they felt very comfortable [br]making this agreement and

0:42:47.000,0:37:29.000
kicking the can down the road.

0:37:29.000,0:45:03.000
The Japanese apparently are very [br]heavily invested you know coal

0:45:03.000,0:44:27.000
fire power you know he's learned [br]that explains their reluctance,

0:44:27.000,0:50:32.000
do you see any decrease in their [br]investments in coal and I I I

0:50:32.000,0:48:16.000
suppose the Canadians do the tourist [br]town are reluctant to see

0:41:37.000,0:50:52.000
decolonization any trying to do but [br]you seem to suggest in in our

0:51:42.000,0:43:27.000
last conversation tar sands profits [br]are plummeting as their own.

0:50:27.000,0:46:58.000
That's true.

0:46:58.000,0:48:11.000
It's just too expensive to [br]produce the tar sands.

0:48:11.000,0:38:33.000
You need at least$60

0:40:53.000,0:41:44.000
to$70

0:43:14.000,0:42:28.000
a barrel to do it and they're only [br]getting about 40 to 45 they

0:42:28.000,0:35:54.000
don't get world prices because the [br]tires and requires so much work

0:35:54.000,0:50:16.000
at the refinery to get a usable [br]product that they get a lower

0:51:16.000,0:39:57.000
price.

0:39:57.000,0:51:29.000
So they're losing some money and it,

0:51:29.000,0:37:34.000
what's happening is this massive layoffs [br]in Alberta and I mean big

0:37:34.000,0:36:49.000
big big layoffs and the financing [br]for these companies is getting

0:37:39.000,0:38:11.000
hard to get and their stocks,

0:38:11.000,0:49:54.000
according to one of our [br]guests went down 70%,

0:49:54.000,0:41:07.000
so that's a big drop in their [br]stock value as well.

0:37:08.000,0:42:39.000
Interesting.

0:42:39.000,0:45:19.000
Well,

0:45:19.000,0:46:00.000
that may be.

0:46:00.000,0:52:02.000
Let me explain why they're trying to do.

0:52:02.000,0:40:39.000
Also some of the same companies [br]cap into the acts Gaston and

0:46:39.000,0:52:34.000
propane byproduct of that in the past [br]have been treated as a waste

0:37:05.000,0:43:25.000
gas,

0:43:25.000,0:43:47.000
it's another revenue stream for them.

0:42:48.000,0:42:31.000
You now do you expect much concrete [br]to come out of the pair's

0:43:41.000,0:49:42.000
climate talks later this year.

0:38:34.000,0:44:47.000
Well I'm I'm always hopeful.

0:44:47.000,0:47:27.000
Well,

0:47:27.000,0:39:41.000
I I had that they haven't been [br]I I went to the climate

0:39:41.000,0:42:56.000
negotiations in Kyoto and I went [br]to several others after that and

0:42:56.000,0:43:48.000
I haven't been to the last few years,

0:43:48.000,0:53:21.000
and I was just feeling very discouraged [br]about all of the

0:40:12.000,0:43:36.000
brinksmanship and which which is what [br]you always see it with these

0:44:56.000,0:48:10.000
conferences nobody shows their hand [br]until long after midnight on

0:48:10.000,0:42:44.000
the final made and finally everybody's [br]scrambling on very little

0:42:44.000,0:48:56.000
sleep to come up with an agreement.

0:48:56.000,0:52:00.000
It just seemed like you know I dream [br]of of chess with the planets

0:52:00.000,0:52:53.000
. The fate of the planet at [br]stake over and over again.

0:52:53.000,0:43:36.000
I got I kind of very tiresome.

0:43:36.000,0:50:37.000
This time,

0:50:37.000,0:46:31.000
you know we do how China coming [br]to the table with an agreement

0:52:31.000,0:50:27.000
with the United States that does seem [br]to have potentially at least

0:51:57.000,0:45:02.000
broken a logjam between the developing [br]countries and that the

0:45:22.000,0:51:45.000
wealthy countries that we saw over [br]and over again played out its

0:53:25.000,0:53:06.000
climate negotiations.

0:53:06.000,0:49:10.000
So it seems that the dynamics [br]could be different enough to

0:37:41.000,0:43:55.000
potentially a shift things moving forward.

0:43:55.000,0:51:59.000
But whether we'll see the kind of [br]truly dramatic commitments that

0:53:39.000,0:46:42.000
are needed to stabilize the [br]climate earning trying to,

0:46:42.000,0:52:42.000
you know,

0:52:42.000,0:41:47.000
I'm not that hopeful but I I I do [br]think to think well at least

0:42:37.000,0:51:28.000
begin to shift at this next Senate.

0:52:58.000,0:42:39.000
Fox.

0:50:29.000,0:39:20.000
You know.

0:40:10.000,0:38:53.000
Now America has elections [br]coming up eventually,

0:38:53.000,0:38:16.000
do you expect the same rogues [br]gallery of Republican climate

0:40:16.000,0:39:29.000
deniers to be elected again in Congress.

0:53:49.000,0:38:36.000
I think the Republicans have a very [br]slim chances of gaining the

0:38:36.000,0:49:06.000
presidency.

0:49:06.000,0:50:30.000
I think that they have a higher likelihood [br]of retaining control of

0:50:30.000,0:52:23.000
the south and in the house when [br]you have somebody like Hillary

0:52:23.000,0:54:34.000
Clinton running for office.

0:54:34.000,0:47:30.000
I think you know just given her [br]stature nationally and and

0:49:00.000,0:44:51.000
globally.

0:44:51.000,0:54:04.000
She probably stand a greater [br]chance than any of the other

0:40:55.000,0:39:18.000
candidates they're running but a [br]lot can happen between now and

0:39:18.000,0:48:41.000
20-16 that's my prediction [br]at this point in time,

0:48:41.000,0:44:36.000
oil processing Bernie Sanders surprisingly [br]gaining on Hillary

0:44:36.000,0:54:56.000
Clinton.

0:54:56.000,0:55:19.000
He is an independent and a [br]self-proclaimed socialist.

0:55:19.000,0:43:23.000
So that's a huge surprise [br]for the United States.

0:43:23.000,0:47:14.000
I think what it suggests,

0:47:14.000,0:41:09.000
is that people have had enough of [br]either candidate really avoiding

0:41:49.000,0:41:03.000
the issue of income inequality and [br]Bernie standard but there is

0:41:43.000,0:48:16.000
taking on the corporations in the [br]banks like no other candidate is

0:48:16.000,0:39:57.000
right now.

0:50:47.000,0:51:20.000
You know I remember after the financial [br]crash that Bernie Sanders

0:54:50.000,0:46:34.000
actually came out and described [br]who runs America and it was

0:49:14.000,0:50:17.000
revealing he talked for hours and [br]hours and hours on the record.

0:50:17.000,0:49:59.000
It was great stuff.

0:49:59.000,0:41:50.000
Well,

0:41:50.000,0:39:42.000
I see that scientists say.

0:39:42.000,0:52:14.000
Climate change will look very different [br]from region to region,

0:52:14.000,0:54:57.000
and we saw that again this year [br]in North America with a hot

0:40:08.000,0:46:02.000
exceptionally dry western a cool [br]snow rainy east is it a big

0:47:42.000,0:54:46.000
problem that citizens experience climate [br]change so locally and yet

0:54:46.000,0:50:29.000
the problem demands a global solution.

0:44:30.000,0:54:20.000
Well,

0:54:20.000,0:45:13.000
I mean in terms of the [br]deserving Northwest,

0:45:13.000,0:47:47.000
one of the things that we are preparing [br]for a which is a little

0:47:47.000,0:49:58.000
bit alarming is there.

0:49:58.000,0:51:32.000
Niger influx of climate refugees [br]to the northwest,

0:51:32.000,0:46:35.000
city officials tell us that they're [br]expecting you know the

0:48:35.000,0:44:58.000
population in Portland for example [br]to increased by several hundred

0:45:58.000,0:43:50.000
thousand in the coming decades.

0:43:50.000,0:51:55.000
So I think you know Californian [br]dried up and continues to drag.

0:51:55.000,0:47:09.000
We probably will see quite a [br]few people moving north from

0:47:09.000,0:40:52.000
California wetter climates.

0:40:52.000,0:42:48.000
Is it problematic how climate change [br]out with regard to I I don't

0:42:48.000,0:55:20.000
fully understand what what what what [br]you mean by that question can

0:55:20.000,0:46:31.000
be retrained.

0:43:32.000,0:55:42.000
Well,

0:55:42.000,0:55:05.000
it's just that you know the old [br]story about the elephant people

0:55:05.000,0:45:16.000
come up.

0:45:16.000,0:42:09.000
The elephant in one pulls the tail [br]on says that's what an elf.

0:42:09.000,0:55:51.000
It looks like the other one grabs [br]a new year and says that's what

0:55:51.000,0:50:54.000
the often looks like climate [br]change is kind of like that,

0:50:54.000,0:49:58.000
you know you have people who see [br]and experiencing so differently

0:52:08.000,0:48:12.000
right around them and yet they're [br]supposed to all unite somehow

0:51:52.000,0:48:35.000
and demand an overall great big solution.

0:48:36.000,0:53:36.000
Well,

0:53:36.000,0:40:51.000
I mean I think that polls suggest [br]that a majority of Americans do

0:45:41.000,0:50:03.000
think that the climate crisis.

0:50:03.000,0:50:27.000
The areas it's happening and they [br]want to see action taken on it,

0:50:27.000,0:53:49.000
regardless of how it manifests [br]in their region.

0:53:49.000,0:41:33.000
I think people are increasingly [br]alarmed and are increasingly

0:44:13.000,0:43:16.000
wanting to see elected [br]official take action.

0:43:16.000,0:50:39.000
Unfortunately our elected officials [br]there you know largely

0:55:19.000,0:45:32.000
following the money and most of [br]the money is with the club

0:47:12.000,0:41:36.000
brothers and the other oil companies [br]so they're listening to them

0:42:26.000,0:45:40.000
and not to that the American people [br]but at least at the moment you

0:45:40.000,0:51:53.000
know this is one reason why we need [br]better campaign finance laws

0:52:53.000,0:48:24.000
in this country.

0:48:24.000,0:50:28.000
But I think what we come to the conclusion [br]here at the Center for

0:50:28.000,0:44:02.000
a sustainable economy is that working [br]at the city level working at

0:44:22.000,0:55:22.000
the state level,

0:55:22.000,0:55:05.000
you can get a lot more done than [br]you can trying to work in

0:56:25.000,0:50:38.000
Washington DC things are very [br]broken and Washington,

0:50:38.000,0:45:11.000
but you can actually affect [br]policy at the state level,

0:45:11.000,0:46:34.000
and eventually hopefully [br]MPs that into some sort.

0:49:04.000,0:47:45.000
National strategy.

0:55:25.000,0:57:55.000
Yeah.

0:43:26.000,0:43:37.000
That's a great point,

0:43:37.000,0:48:30.000
are you getting re-energized by [br]regional activism on the west

0:49:40.000,0:48:34.000
coast versus the politics of living [br]and working in Washington DC.

0:54:44.000,0:54:45.000
Oh yes,

0:54:45.000,0:42:17.000
yes.

0:42:17.000,0:42:21.000
You know and a hit lots and lots [br]of exclamation points after that

0:50:51.000,0:48:26.000
statement I I'm so inspired by and [br]many of the young people that

0:48:26.000,0:48:20.000
retirees so level of engagement here [br]in the northwest around the

0:48:20.000,0:54:24.000
issue of climate change is so [br]broad and persons here and so

0:57:44.000,0:43:06.000
energized.

0:43:06.000,0:54:20.000
It's really inspiring to see a lot [br]of people hurt you know just

0:58:30.000,0:54:25.000
put their careers completely on [br]hold and are doing nothing but

0:56:05.000,0:52:27.000
working on this climate crisis,

0:52:27.000,0:46:18.000
one of the people.

0:46:18.000,0:55:41.000
That's leading local 350 chapter [br]here in Portland.

0:55:41.000,0:52:05.000
It's the former Andy who [br]just decided this was,

0:52:05.000,0:57:28.000
this is where she needed to [br]spend her time and energy.

0:57:28.000,0:55:41.000
I know a lot of people that have [br]dealt with either early

0:55:41.000,0:53:26.000
retirement or living very frugally [br]so that they can devote a

0:53:56.000,0:51:10.000
significant amount of time to working [br]on the the fighting at the

0:51:10.000,0:53:42.000
fossil fuel industry here in Oregon.

0:53:42.000,0:53:33.000
So it's,

0:53:33.000,0:58:57.000
it's both inspiring encourages me [br]to work even harder whereas back

0:58:57.000,0:51:28.000
in Washington,

0:51:28.000,0:45:29.000
DC.

0:45:29.000,0:44:23.000
We just feel that no matter how much [br]you through your head against

0:45:23.000,0:57:25.000
that that wall you just keeps Nash.

0:57:25.000,0:58:19.000
You know how to go through expense [br]and it wasn't going to budge.

0:58:19.000,0:43:42.000
But things do actually [br]get done it Thursday.

0:47:23.000,0:57:36.000
I wonder if there's a story or experience [br]beyond that you think

0:58:06.000,0:48:10.000
could help raise our listeners [br]to an even greater move into

0:49:10.000,0:52:01.000
climate activism.

0:54:42.000,0:43:53.000
Well,

0:43:53.000,0:51:17.000
I mean I think the climate crisis [br]you you know you've covered it

0:51:47.000,0:45:18.000
so well,

0:45:18.000,0:55:41.000
especially in your recent shows [br]with climate psychologists and

0:57:41.000,0:49:37.000
others talking about the ways in [br]which we turn away from just how

0:51:17.000,0:59:38.000
serious it is,

0:59:38.000,0:58:50.000
it cannot have that result,

0:58:50.000,0:51:55.000
but it can also when you are working [br]in coalition with others I

0:52:25.000,0:49:39.000
what I found is that the people [br]that end up coming out to join

0:50:09.000,0:55:52.000
this coalitions are some of the [br]best members of our society and

0:57:42.000,0:46:26.000
mean you know just smart committed,

0:46:26.000,0:58:56.000
funny,

0:58:56.000,0:45:38.000
creative,

0:45:38.000,0:55:31.000
and these are the kinds of people [br]that I would want to have.

0:55:31.000,0:45:54.000
By my side fighting any kind of battle.

0:45:54.000,0:52:08.000
So I encourage people that are in [br]any way feeling defeated by this

0:55:08.000,0:56:03.000
crisis turn that sort of intention [br]to mourn into an into an

0:56:53.000,0:46:18.000
organizing intention and to really [br]stick out like-minded folks

0:48:08.000,0:45:22.000
because they will energize you and [br]keep you going in the darkest

0:45:22.000,0:56:06.000
hours and a lot of us are [br]feeling the grief around.

0:56:06.000,0:56:08.000
I know I felt it for quite some time,

0:56:08.000,0:59:59.000
but there is,

0:59:59.000,0:55:04.000
there are signs that people are really [br]beginning to get it and I

0:56:14.000,0:44:59.000
really getting mobilized for example [br]and working with the National

0:51:49.000,0:57:12.000
Unitarian General Assembly that's [br]gathering in Portland and 6,000

0:45:23.000,0:51:16.000
members of the Unitarian coming [br]from all over the United States

0:51:36.000,1:00:59.000
and they'll be focused exclusively [br]on those climate change and

1:00:59.000,0:57:33.000
also how best to work in solidarity [br]with native Americans in

0:59:03.000,0:55:25.000
facing down this crisis.

0:55:25.000,0:45:57.000
It's very exciting.

0:45:57.000,0:55:51.000
It feels like we are going to go [br]back to our home communities and

0:56:31.000,0:56:03.000
really commit to respond.

0:56:03.000,0:58:36.000
In fact there is a website commit [br]to respond and people were going

0:58:36.000,0:52:50.000
to be asked to do something along [br]the same lines of what your last

0:53:20.000,0:58:34.000
guest asked us to do which is to [br]mobilize towards a World War 2

0:59:04.000,0:57:18.000
type mobilization to save you know [br]I think a lot of us recognize

0:57:18.000,0:58:32.000
if that's what's required to swim [br]time and we need all of us to be

0:59:52.000,0:52:46.000
calling for the same thing both for [br]our economy and for our planet

0:55:36.000,0:46:19.000
if were gonna stop this monster in time.

0:55:09.000,0:58:09.000
Here.

0:59:39.000,0:52:24.000
Our guest Washington hosted the environmental [br]program for 8 years

0:52:24.000,0:51:58.000
on the Pacifica Radio network now [br]she's bounced between regional

0:53:58.000,0:54:52.000
activism on the West Coast continuing [br]watch over national and

0:55:22.000,0:58:04.000
international climate developments.

0:58:04.000,0:47:08.000
She is the director of climate [br]and the energy program at the

0:47:08.000,0:52:02.000
Center for sustainable economy definitely [br]where the best places to

0:52:02.000,0:49:54.000
follow your ongoing work.

0:59:34.000,0:56:19.000
Sustainable dash economy of our [br]website and we are getting on

1:01:29.000,0:57:21.000
climate and energy program up and running.

0:57:21.000,0:55:45.000
There were very excited about a new [br]initiative that you can see an

0:55:45.000,1:00:38.000
update on shortly called climate response.

1:00:38.000,0:56:12.000
We have a preliminary paper up there [br]and we'll be posting a lot of

0:56:32.000,0:49:08.000
our activity on Algerian and other [br]oil and gas and coal exports in

0:49:08.000,0:51:39.000
the Pacific Northwest,

0:51:39.000,0:58:11.000
we've hired a new political director.

0:58:11.000,0:59:03.000
You can join our activist network there,

0:59:03.000,0:49:48.000
and we were poured engaging with anyone [br]who wants to preserve what

0:49:48.000,0:53:31.000
we call that in green line here [br]in the Pacific Northwest them

0:55:51.000,0:52:23.000
these massive fossil fuel.

0:56:43.000,1:01:03.000
Well,

1:01:03.000,0:51:14.000
from going.

0:46:55.000,0:52:25.000
Great.

0:52:25.000,0:48:19.000
So listeners just Google center [br]for sustainable economy or look

0:48:19.000,0:53:22.000
for links in my blog at could [br]shock.info Daphne.

0:53:22.000,0:49:24.000
Thank you so much for joining us again,

0:49:24.000,0:53:26.000
please keep in touch as you [br]develop more stories.

1:01:06.000,1:00:07.000
Thank you.

1:00:07.000,1:03:01.000
And one last thing it it really [br]as websites seemed odd or will

1:03:01.000,0:48:35.000
take you right to absolutely [br]and I do I will treat you,

0:48:35.000,0:51:15.000
right.

0:56:45.000,1:01:56.000
Activist network page.

0:49:27.000,0:59:11.000
Beautiful scene.org I'm Alex Smith [br]reporting for Radio Eco shark.

0:57:54.000,1:02:48.000
This is Radio Eco shot made up your [br]iPod or computer with tons of

1:03:18.000,0:54:14.000
free green audio from our website [br]at W W W.eco shock.org that's

0:55:54.000,0:55:27.000
easy oil shock like electric shock.org.

0:52:42.000,1:03:43.000
In the short time we have left.

1:03:43.000,0:51:57.000
I'd like to pass on some quotes [br]and notes from a deep and

0:51:57.000,0:52:01.000
important talk from climate week [br]at Harvard University Center for

0:52:01.000,0:53:22.000
the environment,

0:53:22.000,0:48:03.000
the speakers.

0:48:03.000,0:51:37.000
Dr. James Anderson and the title [br]is coupled feedback in the

0:51:37.000,0:54:12.000
climate structure that set the timescale [br]for irreversible change

1:01:42.000,0:51:36.000
Arctic isotopes to stratospheric radicals.

0:51:36.000,1:02:09.000
That's quite a bit and believe me [br]he covers a lot this talk on

1:02:09.000,0:54:34.000
April 8th 20-15 was part of a series [br]of presentations I found this

0:54:34.000,0:54:15.000
on video.

0:54:15.000,0:49:19.000
Thanks to a tip from a radio equal [br]shock listener and I'm so glad

0:49:19.000,0:52:40.000
I did.

0:52:40.000,0:48:42.000
The talk as Anderson tells us,

0:48:42.000,0:57:03.000
is a fairly high level.

0:57:03.000,0:56:36.000
A presentation of ongoing research [br]into some important

0:56:36.000,0:51:10.000
developments in the climate Anderson [br]covers a wide range of

0:51:10.000,0:48:51.000
science.

0:48:51.000,0:58:23.000
I can only get to a few points here,

0:58:23.000,0:52:44.000
for example,

0:52:44.000,0:54:08.000
research into past ages showed the [br]stratosphere that upper level

0:54:08.000,0:54:22.000
of Earth's atmosphere above the weather [br]was far wetter than today

0:54:22.000,0:59:44.000
, in past greenhouse ages.

0:59:44.000,0:55:58.000
The wording of the stratosphere should [br]be happening now but until

0:58:18.000,0:54:21.000
very recently nobody knew [br]how that could happen.

0:54:21.000,0:58:45.000
Now we do Anderson also points out [br]a key difference between past

1:00:35.000,0:58:48.000
hothouse world and today this time around.

0:58:48.000,1:03:32.000
Humans have also injected chlorinated [br]substances like ozone

0:49:53.000,0:51:27.000
destroying CFCs there were never [br]there in the past ages and how

0:51:27.000,0:56:31.000
does that affect climate change as [br]we'll hear from those opening

0:56:31.000,0:51:55.000
quote scientists are gaining new [br]knowledge on changes we've made

0:57:15.000,1:02:06.000
that cannot be reversed,

1:02:06.000,1:04:10.000
at least not in any timescale that [br]matters to humans here is Dr.

1:04:10.000,0:56:02.000
Anderson speaking at Harvard.

0:52:03.000,0:56:38.000
This is really research talk about [br]2 aspects of the climate

0:56:38.000,1:03:29.000
structure,

1:03:29.000,1:04:04.000
both of which are coupled through [br]irreversible connective cycles

0:52:55.000,0:51:00.000
and so I'm gonna talk about experiments [br]done 5 meters above the

0:51:00.000,1:02:14.000
surface and then experiments done [br]20 kilometers above the surface

1:03:14.000,0:54:47.000
and you'll see why those are linked,

0:54:47.000,0:58:31.000
but just in case I basketball [br]over these things I want to

1:00:41.000,1:04:33.000
emphasize some points.

1:04:33.000,0:57:07.000
The first one is that this global [br]climate structure is changing

0:57:07.000,0:54:22.000
far more rapidly than than we believe [br]was possible even even 5

0:54:22.000,1:01:46.000
years ago and I'm gonna show some [br]dominant examples of that the

1:01:46.000,1:03:30.000
next issue is the feedback in the [br]climate structure because it

1:03:30.000,1:01:35.000
seeks feedback sits set the timescale [br]for a reverse ability and

1:03:55.000,1:06:18.000
I'm gonna take a very brief tour [br]through the climate system to

1:06:18.000,0:50:42.000
demonstrate how that functions now:

0:50:42.000,1:01:15.000
a look at the way in which developing [br]technology provides direct

1:02:15.000,0:59:49.000
measurements for example of methane [br]and carbon di-oxide ITA topic

0:52:10.000,1:05:10.000
Fox measurement.

1:05:21.000,1:05:25.000
Next we'll hear about how the fragile [br]Arctic determined so much of

1:05:25.000,0:59:26.000
our weather.

0:58:07.000,1:00:22.000
Then I'm going to look at why these [br]Cryer systems which are so

1:02:22.000,1:05:07.000
delicate because heat of fusion [br]for waters so small that the

1:05:07.000,0:55:04.000
delicacy of of these Cryer systems [br]in a cruel irony link into the

0:55:04.000,1:03:29.000
larger global climate structure [br]and they exhibit inordinate

1:03:29.000,1:03:23.000
control over these global climate [br]systems I'm I'm gonna touch very

1:03:23.000,0:52:58.000
briefly on this pale your record [br]and as Brian talked about on on

0:52:58.000,0:55:04.000
Tuesday that the climate structure [br]depends in in large measure on

0:55:04.000,1:01:18.000
the temperature gradient between [br]the tropics in the polar regions

1:01:18.000,0:57:41.000
and during the EEOC,

0:57:41.000,0:54:24.000
there was a very little temperature [br]difference between the tropics

0:54:24.000,0:58:59.000
and and and the polar regions and [br]in that particular structure of

0:58:59.000,1:01:41.000
the stratosphere had to be wet.

1:01:41.000,0:58:32.000
There's very little

1:07:23.000,0:57:34.000
and fact.

0:57:34.000,1:05:14.000
I don't know,

1:05:14.000,0:53:55.000
Brian,

0:53:55.000,1:05:07.000
I don't think there's any possibility [br]of having that claim a

1:05:07.000,1:03:10.000
structure without a Maurice stratosphere.

1:03:10.000,0:56:24.000
And as we'll see moisture entering [br]the stratosphere today has a

0:56:24.000,0:55:27.000
very different connotation because [br]it triggers catalytic cycles

0:55:27.000,0:51:40.000
involving chlorine in Bromley in [br]that were not present during the

0:52:00.000,0:57:05.000
EEOC so also talk about you active [br]of injection north of the

0:59:25.000,0:59:06.000
subtropical jet,

0:59:06.000,0:55:21.000
which as we saw from from Bryant brands [br]talk is of a potential way

0:55:21.000,0:53:05.000
of transitioning from the current [br]structure of the climate to one

0:53:05.000,0:59:19.000
in which there is a far smaller difference [br]between in temperature

1:00:19.000,1:02:21.000
between the equator in the polar regions,

1:02:21.000,0:54:55.000
so is convicted injection of water,

0:54:55.000,0:59:20.000
it turned out to be unique over [br]the US and it's coupled also to

1:06:20.000,1:05:34.000
any cyclonic flow over the US that [br]that's created by the North

1:05:34.000,0:52:56.000
American monsoon.

0:52:56.000,0:59:50.000
And so we have this convicted injection [br]into this anti cyclonic

0:59:50.000,1:05:31.000
motion,

1:05:31.000,0:55:27.000
which is a hoot demonic combination [br]created by the dynamics.

0:55:27.000,1:07:51.000
But it has very strong good coupling [br]into the catalytic chemical

0:56:02.000,1:00:23.000
structure of the stratosphere.

0:56:44.000,1:01:17.000
Note how Anderson stressed the point [br]made again and again by our

1:02:07.000,0:55:41.000
guest scientist Paul Beckwith when [br]explaining the new disruption

0:55:41.000,1:01:04.000
of weather in the northern hemisphere [br]and that's the temperature

1:02:34.000,0:59:18.000
difference between the tropics in [br]the polls as polar regions warm

0:59:18.000,1:01:41.000
up the difference is declining and [br]the result is a slower and wave

1:02:31.000,0:59:15.000
your jet stream and some really strange [br]weather for all of us in

0:59:35.000,0:55:58.000
the northern world as a side note,

0:55:58.000,0:59:01.000
Anderson explains why both the [br]left and the right may support

1:02:11.000,1:07:45.000
further research into controversial [br]geo engineering first he

1:07:45.000,1:07:18.000
refers to the National Research [br]Council report on climate

1:07:18.000,0:59:02.000
engineering particularly solar [br]radiation management.

1:02:12.000,1:05:16.000
The National Research Council [br]just released a new report on

1:05:16.000,0:59:50.000
climate engineering particularly [br]solar radiation management that

0:57:21.000,1:09:35.000
is being pushed actually in a bipartisan [br]way because the right

0:53:56.000,0:59:31.000
would like to have solar radiation [br]management so more fossil fuels

1:00:01.000,0:59:16.000
can be burned and the left believes [br]that intruding in natural

0:59:16.000,0:54:41.000
systems like this is a very dangerous [br]so research on the topic is

0:55:11.000,0:58:34.000
gaining bilateral support,

0:58:34.000,0:54:26.000
which is highly unusual these days.

1:06:56.000,1:06:58.000
Next we hear why James Anderson,

1:06:58.000,1:02:23.000
thinks global warming is so horribly [br]wrong as a term to describe

1:02:43.000,1:09:34.000
the current climate shift.

1:02:55.000,1:07:35.000
All right,

1:07:35.000,1:03:40.000
so let me start with with a bias [br]this this term global warming

1:05:20.000,0:54:33.000
applied to this problem.

0:54:33.000,0:57:17.000
It makes me shudder because 70% [br]of the globe is covered by the

0:57:17.000,1:03:47.000
ocean,

1:03:47.000,1:06:59.000
with an average depth of 3500 meters,

1:06:59.000,1:01:42.000
and it has massive heat capacity,

1:01:42.000,1:00:46.000
so my mind most degenerate variable [br]you can discusses mean global

1:05:26.000,1:03:10.000
temperature and it also carries a [br]connotation of something that's

1:03:10.000,1:07:24.000
happening slow leak you know one [br]degree centigrade per century

0:56:05.000,1:03:19.000
doesn't carry a huge amount of political [br]imperative behind it.

1:03:19.000,1:03:12.000
It also carries the connotation [br]that you can watch think slowly

1:03:12.000,1:06:23.000
change and if you don't like,

1:06:23.000,1:04:58.000
if you can just slow down the release [br]of carbon dioxide and return

1:04:58.000,0:59:02.000
to the condition and nothing could [br]be further from the truth is,

0:59:02.000,1:07:52.000
as we'll see.

1:07:52.000,1:02:17.000
So I always avoid the term and [br]I cringe every time I hear it.

0:56:58.000,1:11:00.000
We'll never have time to get to all [br]the great science in the stock

1:11:00.000,1:04:52.000
. But I do want you to hear this.

0:59:13.000,1:03:06.000
The next point involves these methane [br]clatter it's either of these

1:03:46.000,1:03:02.000
beautiful structures ice cages within [br]which nature inserts methane

1:03:02.000,1:00:18.000
produced anaerobic by decomposition [br]of organic material and in its

1:00:18.000,1:02:12.000
and it's chirpy that's driving this [br]entirely because it nature of

1:03:12.000,1:03:16.000
course abhors a vacuum and with stuff [br]molecules and every possible

1:03:46.000,1:11:12.000
nook and cranny in order to [br]engage the inclusion of

1:06:33.000,1:05:57.000
energy states and it turns out that [br]methane 5th beautifully into

1:06:37.000,1:04:43.000
these water cages and this is ubiquitous [br]Klatten nothing rates

1:04:43.000,0:56:28.000
contain about 3 times the chemical [br]energy of all known fossil fuel

1:00:48.000,0:59:30.000
reserves include coal,

0:59:30.000,1:09:54.000
petroleum natural gas and they [br]reside not only in the surface

1:11:34.000,0:57:07.000
soils of Siberia northern Alaska but also

1:05:58.000,0:59:02.000
they're ubiquitous across the ocean [br]basins this was pulled up off

0:59:42.000,1:11:46.000
the west coast of about 100m than [br]it is touch of magic to it and

1:11:46.000,1:08:51.000
it it ignites but the numbers as Steve,

1:08:51.000,1:02:53.000
what's the point pointed out,

1:02:53.000,1:00:45.000
are actually quite concerning.

1:00:45.000,1:06:00.000
So here we plot the CO2 emissions [br]from fossil-fuel burning in gig

1:07:00.000,1:08:55.000
tons of carbon per year yet to convert [br]back from CO2 but canonical

1:11:55.000,1:01:30.000
representation is and in carbon [br]per vehicle because of that's

1:02:40.000,1:01:26.000
typically how calibrated so 1990 have [br]about 6 again get tons of of

1:03:46.000,0:57:40.000
carbon was added to the atmosphere [br]by fossil-fuel burning,

0:57:40.000,1:09:14.000
and that was basically a textbook [br]number for for many many years,

1:09:14.000,0:57:46.000
but in 2000,

0:57:46.000,0:56:43.000
it started to take off and when [br]the 2007 IPCC report came out.

0:56:43.000,1:08:54.000
These were the release than area.

1:08:54.000,1:00:38.000
This was the worst possible [br]cases up a red wine,

1:00:38.000,1:08:18.000
and of course,

1:08:18.000,0:59:12.000
we've exceeded that of every year.

0:59:12.000,1:07:26.000
The subsequent to to 2007 but the [br]key point is that just half a

1:07:36.000,1:02:00.000
percent of the labor while carbon [br]in the Earth's surface soils,

1:02:00.000,1:05:55.000
of the North Slope of of Alaska [br]and Siberia just half a percent

1:07:05.000,1:04:19.000
release rate per year gives [br]us around 89 tons per year,

1:04:19.000,1:11:22.000
which doubles the carbon added [br]to the atmosphere by all

1:01:03.000,1:06:25.000
fossil-fuel burning worldwide.

1:06:25.000,1:04:30.000
And so this constitutes for the [br]next exhibit for feedback.

1:08:50.000,1:09:23.000
Anderson gives the example of a [br]class 3 pulled up off the west

1:10:23.000,1:04:06.000
coast from a depth of about 100 meters,

1:04:06.000,1:00:29.000
that could be ignited with old match.

1:00:29.000,1:05:09.000
Well,

1:05:09.000,1:11:12.000
we didn't get to the strange way [br]chlorinated substances playback

1:11:12.000,1:06:26.000
on other climate feedback in the [br]atmosphere plus and this is a

1:06:26.000,1:07:57.000
spoiler alert.

1:07:57.000,0:59:21.000
Scientists have discovered a way [br]the stratosphere can become

0:59:21.000,1:08:25.000
wetter as it did in past greenhouse [br]worlds many many hours flying

1:08:25.000,1:13:38.000
around the world found the stratosphere [br]has the same low amount of

1:13:38.000,1:05:00.000
water vapor.

1:05:00.000,1:02:32.000
But in a kink in the system.

1:02:32.000,1:12:45.000
A collision of weather factors over [br]the continental United States

1:01:46.000,1:05:00.000
creates an almost unique kind of heat [br]funnel that does inject more

1:05:00.000,1:05:32.000
water into the stratosphere.

1:05:32.000,1:04:46.000
There are several other sites like [br]that Anderson says they have

1:04:46.000,1:04:10.000
the mechanism that will wet down [br]the stratosphere over time,

1:04:10.000,1:11:23.000
as I say there's a huge range of [br]cutting science in the stock by

1:11:23.000,1:13:54.000
James Anderson.

1:13:54.000,1:04:48.000
Some of it is a little difficult [br]for the lay person to understand

1:04:48.000,1:09:00.000
, but most of it is very clear.

1:09:00.000,1:10:13.000
We learn of feedback switch make [br]this developing climate shift

1:01:14.000,0:59:18.000
into a major geological event [br]that cannot be reversed.

0:59:18.000,1:11:31.000
We have already gone over the climate [br]cliff he tells us how far we

1:13:51.000,1:08:15.000
fall depends on whether we can rein [br]in our fossil-fuel burning

1:10:05.000,1:14:39.000
emissions before they trigger much [br]much larger carbon or methane

1:14:39.000,1:14:14.000
inputs from the previously frozen [br]land and sea bed in the Arctic

1:08:35.000,1:14:18.000
find an easy link to this video presentation [br]at Harvard University

0:59:39.000,1:09:53.000
April 8 2015 in my shell [br]blog eco shock.info.

1:09:53.000,1:02:46.000
I'll also add my lengthy [br]notes to the blog,

1:02:46.000,1:12:50.000
which includes a few links and explanations [br]we've blown through

1:12:50.000,1:03:25.000
the time barrier again get all past [br]programs as free MP3s from our

1:03:25.000,1:11:59.000
website at shock.org listen any [br]time on the radio shock page on

1:13:19.000,1:15:31.000
sound cloud I'm Alex,