WEBVTT

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Well, hello.

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I feel really at home here, you know,

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because I've been to Guantanamo
many times, 34 times.

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So being in a very small enclosed area,

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and the bright interrogation lights,
not allowed food or water,

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I mean, it's just like home to me.

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(Laughter)

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I wanted to start out by being rude
to the TEDx people, obviously,

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but what I really wanted to begin with

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was a little tribute to my aunt
who just died very recently.

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My auntie Jean, she was 94,
she had a very good innings.

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But one of the things about auntie Jean
she chose the wrong time to be born.

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She was born in 1920.

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She, as the daughter in the family,
got very few opportunities.

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She was a very brilliant,
very sharp woman,

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but it was my dad, her younger brother,
who got all the benefits;

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went to go to Cambridge and got
a first there; all that good stuff.

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My aunt didn't get that, and I used
to tease her that if she had,

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- she was quite a Tory -

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she probably would have run
the country and wielded her handbag

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more effectively than Margaret Thatcher,
which I found quite terrifying.

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My father, as I say, was the one
who had the opportunities,

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but he, unfortunately, was blighted
all his life with bipolar disorder.

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So even though he was very intelligent
himself, and had all those opportunities,

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it was very difficult
for him to do things.

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I wanted to tell you a couple stories
that were occurring to me recently.

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One was when I was seven years old
and this is just to illustrate,

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I love my dad dearly,
it's not to denigrate him in anyway.

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When I was seven, he called me
into the library, and he said,

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"Clive, your generation has just kept
juvenile for too long, immature.

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Frankly, you're seven now, and it's time
for you to go and live by yourself."

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(Laughter)

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"Here is £200, now buzz off."

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Now, you know, it was confusing.

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My pocket money at the time
was a shilling a week,

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and I don't think I calculated it then,

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but I calculated it last night
coming over here;

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80 years of my pocket
money, he had just given me!

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Nonetheless, I didn't feel
I was quite ready to go out and about,

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and fortunately, as ever,
my mother came in and solved the problem

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by taking the money away
and sending me to bed.

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These sorts of things would happen
rather regularly with my dad.

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There was another story I was remembering,
a little later on in life,

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when I was trying a death penalty case
in southern Mississippi.

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My dad had come over to help,
and as ever with dad,

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he decided I was total rubbish,

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and so he managed to hitchhike his way
up to Jackson, Mississippi,

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he managed to get in
to the Governor's mansion,

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where he told the Governor that he felt

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that not only should
my client be executed

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but they'd be doing the world a favor
if they'd execute me at the same time.

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(Laughter)

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There were many people
in the authorities of Mississippi

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who agreed with him on that,

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but it was slightly confusing
for me at the time.

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What really helped me, ultimately,

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actually it ended up
doing death penalty work

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was a comprehension of my dad,
and that some of these things he would do,

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were not necessarily
the product of a rational mind.

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But sadly, a lot of people would see
some of the things my dad would do,

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and hate him for it, and would feel
he was a fraud or something worse.

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Indeed, he did do some extraordinarily
bizarre things over the years.

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One of those actually was my aunt.

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My aunt Jean was an immensely
compassionate woman,

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but she simply couldn't understand,
or accept, perhaps, is a better word,

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that her blue-eyed younger brother
was mentally ill.

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So she would always feel
that what he was doing was bad,

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rather than the product
of his mental illness.

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Which is very sad, because I feel
that perhaps if my dad

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had been recognised earlier,
he would have got help.

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He was only ever sectioned once,
and he only ever got treatment once.

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That sort of ruined his life.

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Which brings me,
naturally, to Ricky Langley.

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Ricky Langley is a guy
I represented in Louisiana.

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And Ricky Langley is a pedophile,
who's molested a lot of children,

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and who ended up killing a six year old
child called Jeremy Guillory.

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I ended up taking on his case
way back in 1993, for the first time.

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His story goes back, far back,
to before he was born even.

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I want to tell you about his story

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because it leads to a woman
called Lorelei Guillory,

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who was the mother
of the child who got killed,

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who is one of my great heroes in life.

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Before Ricky was born, his mum and dad
were driving along on this road,

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with their two kids in the back.

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Alcide was driving, and he was drunk

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and he drove off the road,
and hit a telegraph pole.

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One of the kids in the back

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was this tousle-haired little child called
Oscar-Lee; blonde hair, six years old.

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Lovely little kid, who was the apple
of his parent's eyes.

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He was killed instantly,

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and his sister, a little younger than him
was decapitated and killed.

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Dreadful, dreadful stuff.

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And Betsy, the mother,

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was thrown through the front windscreen,
and very badly injured herself.

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She ended up in Charity Hospital
for most of the next two years.

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She was in a body cast
from her neck to her ankles.

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At the trial, I had an Australian
volunteer of ours model this,

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which should warn you never
to come and work as a volunteer

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for a reprieve, I dare say.

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But when she was in this body cast,
she became pregnant.

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This, of course, had something
to do with Alcide,

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her husband's rather regressive views
about the roles of husbands and wives.

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No one believed she was pregnant,
because how could she be?

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Although that was another thing
we demonstrated at the trial,

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to the amusement of the judge at least,
who was a bit of a pervert.

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(Laughter)

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Lovely guy, actually.

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So she was pregnant,
but for five months, no one believed her.

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And during those five months,
Ricky who was that fetus,

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was subjected to his own private
Hiroshima of x-rays

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and all of these drugs that she was taking

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that should never be given
to a pregnant woman,

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and one of the drugs, bizarrely,
has been linked with pedophilia.

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If you expose a fetus to that drug,

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then that individual is much more likely
to become a pedophile later,

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and it's so bizarre,
we didn't present that to the jury

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because I think they would have thought
we made it up, but it's true.

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Anyway, five months in, the doctors
finally accepted she was pregnant,

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they cut her body cast off,
there was a big old whoosh.

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They said to her,
"You've got to have an abortion.

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There's no two ways about it,

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after all we've done
to you and that fetus."

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But Alcide, the husband, said,
"No, , that's not going to happen.

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I'm Catholic, we don't do abortions."

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So Betsy carried Ricky to term.

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When he was born, it was obvious
he wasn't the blonde, blue-eyed,

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little Oscar-Lee, the apple of their eye.

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He was strange looking, that's I suppose,
the best one can say about it.

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I am sure they said that
about me as a child and still do.

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But Ricky had obviously
suffered immensely in there,

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and it was pretty obvious fairly soon
that there was something going on.

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He wasn't Oscar-Lee,

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his dad would tease him horribly
about him not being Oscar-Lee.

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He was molested himself.

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He then, at age eight, starts sleeping
on gravestones in the local cemetery.

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At ten, he puts a notice
on his school notice-board saying,

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"I am not Ricky Langley, I am Oscar-Lee,"

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who you will recall, was the dead brother.

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Ricky was already
developing this psychosis

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that he was his dead brother, Oscar-Lee,

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or Oscar-Lee was his alter-ego,
who was his tormentor,

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who made him do things
that he didn't want to do.

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Ricky started molesting other children,
no question about it.

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He had no understanding
at that time what was going on.

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He ultimately was banged up
in the prison system of Georgia

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for molesting a child,
actually the child of his cousin.

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This was the first time
he ever got counseling,

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and the counselors told him,

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"You're a pedophile, you're mentally ill,
we can't treat it, it's untreatable.

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You are going to carry on offending."

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And indeed, under that theory,
which is a slightly bizarre one,

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about a year after
we set you free from prison,

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you will inevitably molest another child."

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Now Ricky, like my father,
Ricky was a very intelligent guy.

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There is often this stereotype
that if you're really bright,

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you can't suffer from mental disorders,
which are obviously silly.

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And Ricky, when he was told this, said,
"Look, you've convinced me."

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And he wrote a letter to
the Georgia Board of Pardons and Paroles

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saying, "Look, don't let me go then,
for goodness sake.

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Put me in a mental hospital
where I belong."

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But bureaucracy being
what bureaucracy often is,

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they ignored him, they let him go.

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Sure enough, about a year later,
he ends up killing a small child,

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Jeremy Guillory, six years old,
who was the child of Lorelei Guillory,

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the woman I mentioned before.

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You know, when I first talked to him,
and he told me about it, he said,

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"I thought it was Oscar-Lee, my tormentor,
I was trying to get rid of him!"

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Obviously, one of the great challenges
of dealing with a case like this

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is you're trying to tell
to arguably rational people,

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something that is irrational;
it's incredibly hard to understand.

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But one of the little insights
we had into Ricky

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was there was a picture of Oscar-Lee

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and a picture of Jeremy Guillory,

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and Oscar-Lee's own aunt
couldn't tell them apart.

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Perhaps that was a little insight
into what Ricky was feeling or seeing.

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But no question he killed this poor child.

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He was sentenced to death,
first time round.

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The jurors accepted he was mentally ill.

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They said, "Yeah, but he's dangerous,
we better kill him."

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We got him a new trial,

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and before the new trial,
I got to know Ricky a lot better,

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and I got to know Lorelei, the mother
of the small child who had been killed.

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Lorelei was a fascinating,
fascinating character.

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She was a recovering alcoholic,
very little education,

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but full of the most immense compassion.

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What she wanted most of all,
as the mother of a victim.

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was to understand "Why?";
to understand why this had happened.

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I was talking to her and I was saying,

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"Look, if you really want to understand,
you are very welcome to talk to Ricky.

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I know that would be difficult,
but Ricky would love to talk to you;

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to apologise because he knows
he took the life of your child,

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but to explain a little bit
about how mentally ill he is.

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I think if you do that,
it won't totally explain everything,

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because it was an irrational act,
but it will help you."

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And it was immense tribute,
I think, to Lorelei, that she said,

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"Yeah, I'm going to do that."

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So she goes down to the jail,
all by herself, to see Ricky.

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I'd said, "Look, talk to Ricky,

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if you don't like what he says,

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you can testify against him,
I don't mind, this is just for you."

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So she goes in there,
she had always called him "Langley".

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Obviously, she had it in
for him at the beginning.

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She sat down, Ricky explained all of his
life history and he apologized to her.

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At the very end of three hours

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talking to the person
who had murdered her six-year old,

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she says to him,
first time calling him "Ricky",

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she says, "Ricky,
I'm going to fight for you!"

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And she leaves that jail,
she goes down to the DA's office,

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I'm not going to mention who it was,
I really didn't like the guy,

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and goes into his office,
and explains all of this.

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Says, "I think Ricky Langley
was mentally ill,

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and I don't want
this death penalty nonsense.

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It's just going to put me through
the pain again, dreadful stuff,

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not going to solve anything."

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And the DA says to her, she says,

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"Miss Guillory, you're a very strange
criminal defendant, I mean, victim."

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And then, he proceeded to seek
the death penalty again, anyhow.

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Indeed, the authorities tried to take
away her other child,

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because she was an unfit mother,
because she took a strange approach

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to the person
who had killed her first child.

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Anyway, we get to the trial,
and one of the lovely things

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- I love about doing
capital trials in America

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is you get to ask people
all sorts of questions -

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I would love to do it to you,

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"You're under oath, you have to answer
whatever I ask you."

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It's great fun.

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(Laughter)

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Great fun for me,
not for you, it really is.

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So I was picking this jury,
and they were lovely people.

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We got 12 people
who've had close family relatives

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who had serious mental disorders,

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who really understood a lot of it.

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And they laughed
at the pathetic weak jokes I would tell,

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so I was confident that the outcome
was going to be okay at this trial,

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because they really
didn't like the prosecutor.

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So I talked to Lorelei;

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and in a death penalty case
in America, there are two trials.

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The first is whether you are guilty
of capital murder or not,

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and only if you are guilty
of capital murder

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do you get to the second,
which is life or death;

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do you get the life sentence
or the death penalty.

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I said to Lorelei, "Look,
these people are nice people,

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they are not going to convict him
or capital murder,

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You won't get the chance you wanted
which was to testify at the penalty phase,

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to say that the death penalty
would have a dreadful impact on you.

00:13:06.027 --> 00:13:08.137
You are just not going to get that chance.

00:13:08.138 --> 00:13:12.817
I just need to tell you that, because
I'm afraid that's what is going to happen.

00:13:12.818 --> 00:13:15.447
I'm very happy, but I'm sorry for you."

00:13:15.448 --> 00:13:18.862
So she went away that night,
very religious, and she prayed,

00:13:18.863 --> 00:13:21.149
and she came back
the next morning, and she said,

00:13:21.149 --> 00:13:23.875
"The logic of my position, is..."

00:13:23.876 --> 00:13:26.878
She said it in a much more
Southern Louisiana accent,

00:13:26.879 --> 00:13:31.526
"The logic of my position
is that he's mentally ill,

00:13:31.527 --> 00:13:35.078
he shouldn't be in prison;
he should be in a mental hospital.

00:13:35.079 --> 00:13:38.825
I want to testify that he should be found
'not guilty by reason of insanity'

00:13:38.826 --> 00:13:42.442
because he was insane
at the time he killed my child."

00:13:42.443 --> 00:13:44.781
I said, "Alright."

00:13:44.782 --> 00:13:47.878
She said, "One thing I really need
though, is a guarantee;

00:13:47.879 --> 00:13:50.538
that he'll never be released
from the mental hospital

00:13:50.539 --> 00:13:52.264
to harm another child."

00:13:52.265 --> 00:13:53.841
I said, "That's easy."

00:13:53.842 --> 00:13:55.813
Ricky only wants that.

00:13:55.814 --> 00:13:57.223
He wanted to be a guinea pig

00:13:57.224 --> 00:14:00.931
because he knew what he was,
in a way, what he'd been made,

00:14:02.425 --> 00:14:04.663
One of the things about this,
not withstanding,

00:14:04.664 --> 00:14:07.142
what the "News of The World"
used to always do,

00:14:07.143 --> 00:14:11.736
is there's no one who hates Ricky Langley
more than Ricky Langley.

00:14:11.737 --> 00:14:15.479
And he wanted to be a guinea-pig
so he could be studied,

00:14:15.480 --> 00:14:18.210
so that other people wouldn't suffer
what he had suffered,

00:14:18.215 --> 00:14:21.424
and that other children
wouldn't suffer what he had caused.

00:14:21.425 --> 00:14:23.917
So, he signed off on whatever
he had to sign off on,

00:14:23.917 --> 00:14:27.668
and I said to Lorelei, "What do you want
me to ask you as a witness?"

00:14:27.669 --> 00:14:29.659
And she says, "Just ask me one question."

00:14:29.660 --> 00:14:31.208
So I did.

00:14:31.209 --> 00:14:34.127
I'm sorry, this stuff always
makes me a bit chokey,

00:14:34.139 --> 00:14:38.381
when I talk about this with Lorelei
because it was a remarkable human moment.

00:14:38.382 --> 00:14:40.975
She's on the witness stand,
and I ask her one question,

00:14:40.976 --> 00:14:44.927
"Miss Guillory, do you have an opinion
as to whether that man over there

00:14:44.928 --> 00:14:49.210
who killed your six-year old child
was mentally ill at the time he did it?"

00:14:49.211 --> 00:14:53.786
And she turns to the jurors, and she says,
"Well yes, as a matter of fact, I do.

00:14:53.787 --> 00:14:59.346
I think that Ricky Langley has been crying
out for help since the day he was born.

00:14:59.347 --> 00:15:03.846
For whatever reason, his family,
society, the legal system;

00:15:03.847 --> 00:15:06.074
just won't listen to him.

00:15:06.075 --> 00:15:11.311
As I sit on this witness chair, I can hear
the death cries of my child, Jeremy.

00:15:11.312 --> 00:15:13.844
But I can still hear that man
crying out for help.

00:15:13.845 --> 00:15:17.820
I think he was mentally ill
at the time he killed my child."

00:15:17.821 --> 00:15:21.120
Now, when you are doing a closing
argument in a death penalty case,

00:15:21.121 --> 00:15:22.558
- and I've done many -

00:15:22.559 --> 00:15:25.522
it's tough; it's quite a responsibility.

00:15:25.523 --> 00:15:27.823
It's not nearly as much fun
as the earlier bit,

00:15:27.833 --> 00:15:29.421
which is interrogating you lot.

00:15:29.422 --> 00:15:32.315
But this was easy, right?
I just talked to the jurors, I say,

00:15:32.316 --> 00:15:35.568
"Listen to what the lady says,
I can't put it any better than that."

00:15:35.569 --> 00:15:38.440
And sure enough, they did acquit him
of first-degree murder,

00:15:38.441 --> 00:15:44.564
though we still are fighting both his'
and Lorelai's battle for true justice.

00:15:44.565 --> 00:15:46.333
The reason I tell this is two-fold.

00:15:46.334 --> 00:15:48.988
One is, she's a victim.

00:15:48.989 --> 00:15:51.738
One of the horrifying things
about our society today

00:15:51.739 --> 00:15:53.346
is the way the government,

00:15:53.347 --> 00:15:57.548
the great teacher for good or for ill,
tries to teach victims to hate.

00:15:57.549 --> 00:16:02.548
Lorelei is one of my great heroes,
because she tried to understand,

00:16:02.549 --> 00:16:05.434
and it's so obviously
the right thing to do.

00:16:05.435 --> 00:16:08.416
But the other thing
is about mental illness.

00:16:09.936 --> 00:16:12.696
Ricky understands that he's mentally ill,

00:16:12.697 --> 00:16:15.794
which is more than my poor dad
ever really did.

00:16:15.795 --> 00:16:17.558
But the great thing, ultimately,

00:16:17.559 --> 00:16:20.945
is even though my aunt was compassionate,
and brilliant, and whatever,

00:16:20.946 --> 00:16:23.691
she could never understand
my father's true defense,

00:16:23.692 --> 00:16:25.545
which was that he was mentally ill.

00:16:25.546 --> 00:16:27.418
But Lorelei Guillory could.

00:16:27.429 --> 00:16:31.980
Lorelei Guillory could see
not only that Ricky was mentally ill

00:16:31.981 --> 00:16:36.141
but that we needed to understand
him, and not just hate him.

00:16:36.142 --> 00:16:39.681
That was the root, finally
to understand people,

00:16:39.682 --> 00:16:43.837
and perhaps, to get us to a place
where we might be able to prevent

00:16:43.838 --> 00:16:46.768
some of these things
happening in the future.

00:16:46.769 --> 00:16:49.055
That's the reason
I want to tell that story,

00:16:49.056 --> 00:16:53.065
because Lorelei Guillory is one
of the great unsung heroes,

00:16:53.066 --> 00:16:54.815
or heroines in the world,

00:16:54.816 --> 00:16:57.328
and I wanted to take this time
to tell you her story.

00:16:57.329 --> 00:16:58.713
So thank you very much.

00:16:58.714 --> 00:17:00.319
(Applause)