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(Louisiana channel)

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(Jonathan Safran Foer[br]novels have a lot to learn from poetry)

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Well, people often talk[br]about the death of literature.

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I think people have been speaking[br]about it since shortly

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after the first work of literature[br]was ever made

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but there's more and more talk about it

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and it's been propelled[br]by diminishing readership,

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by what feels like an increasing apathy,

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or even anxiety[br]or even mistrust of literature

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and the movement towards screens,[br]everything being

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on a screen and[br]what would that mean for books

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which aren't very well served on a screen.

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It's not that you can't read a book[br]on a screen perfectly well

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but you can't read a book on a screen

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that also has email[br]and your calendar and texting.

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Books can't compete[br]with those kinds of media.

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So we wonder will people read books?

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And I think that there are still things[br]and there will always be things

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that only literature can do,[br]only literature can communicate.

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I don't think that literature[br]is necessarily any better,

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whatever than means,[br]than film or dance or music.

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In fact, I'm often drawn personally more

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to film and dance than I am to literature

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but I know that[br]there are moments in my life

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when I feel a need for literature[br]and only for literature.

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So for example,[br]the mother of my oldest friend

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passed away about week ago.

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And I went down to visit her[br]in Washington DC - I live in New York.

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And I was quite worried[br]about what to say and how to fill

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what I thought might be very awkward,[br]or even painful silences.

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And I brought poems, about 20 poems.

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And I read them to her[br]and we talked about them.

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And in that moment when we, together,

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mostly just her, of course,[br]but together, were confronting

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this, the biggest moment of life[br]which is death,

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we relied on poetry.

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And I think that poems[br]and stories and novels are very helpful

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exactly when we most need language[br]in the most, sort of dire,

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or urgent or existential moments of life.

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Novels are meant to be read[br]over the course of many hours or many days

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and even a story[br]takes half an hour to read.

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And I just wasn't sure, in this case,[br]what her energy level would be,

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so I wanted them to be quite small.

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But even though that's the case,[br]it's also true

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that poetry is[br]the most condensed form of literature

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and in certain ways,[br]it's its most pure form.

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I don't think that novels are[br]any less good than poetry

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but I think that novels[br]have a lot to learn from poetry

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in terms of what's possible,[br]how direct one can be,

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how concentrated language can be,

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and how evocative and resonant.

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You know, sometimes I think[br]novels make the mistake

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of being too much[br]like their own description.

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You know, somebody says,[br]''What is this book about?''

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My dream is to write a novel[br]where somebody would have to say:

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"I could tell you, I suppose,[br]but that would really miss the point.

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You just have to read it."

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That, to my mind, is a good novel.

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A novel that is its own synopsis,

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just an expanded version of its synopsis,

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comes awfully close[br]to television actually.

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I think that novels can still do[br]something that poetry does

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in terms of being[br]kind of ineffable or mysterious

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or not quite graspeable,[br]just on a much larger scale.

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All of my life, I have been more drawn[br]to the visual arts than to literature.

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And even still, when I'm feeling

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like I can't remember[br]why I wanted to be a writer,

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I don't go to books, I actually go[br]to paintings or sculpture.

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To me, the distinctions[br]have been drawn too sharply,

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you know, the difference between[br]a musician, a writer, an artist, a dancer.

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We've categorized them, segregated them,

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so that there's very, very little overlap.

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But in fact they're all just people[br]who want to make things

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that you could say have no use.

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You know, everything in life has a use.

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The person who made the camera[br]that this is being shot with,

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made it so that it could record[br]something like this.

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And a television or a computer[br]that someone's watching it on

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was made with specific functions in mind.

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A bridge is made so that people can get[br]from one land mass to another.

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But novels and paintings[br]and songs really...

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They might have effects in the world,

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they might be political,[br]they might be entertaining,

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they might be objects of commerce,

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but they're not really,[br]really made for any of those reasons,

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they're just made for their own sake.

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And I think that anyone[br]who makes something for its own sake,

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whether you try to have it published

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or whether you're just, you know,[br]rearranging twigs on the ground

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because it pleases you,

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people who do that are artists.

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And, you know, because we live in a world[br]in which you have to have a job

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and in which it's expected[br]that you will grow within your job,

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and because we like[br]to have an answer to the question

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'What is it that you do?'

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You know, you meet someone[br]at a party, or...

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they say ''What do you do?''

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It makes us uncomfortable[br]not to have an answer.

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But the truth is, you know,[br]the different art forms

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are much, much more similar[br]than they are different.

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When I'm not working on a book,

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I am somebody who just[br]kind of moves through the world

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and sees nice things and tries[br]to remember them, but usually doesn't,

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and hears jokes and tries to remember them[br]but usually doesn't

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and so on and has ideas that disappear.

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But when I'm writing, I save those things

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so that I can use them,[br]you know, rearrange them.

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Nothing comes from nothing.

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I think that there's an impression[br]that books or art,

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making art is a much more romantically[br]creative act than it is,

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as if inspiration strikes and suddenly[br]something appears

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but that's not really[br]-- that hasn't been my experience at all.

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It's much more about being attentive[br]to what's around

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and starting to get to know[br]what you like and what you find useful

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and then collecting those things[br]instead of everything,

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collecting those things[br]and then figuring out

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what the most pleasing arrangement[br]of them is for you.

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There's nothing objective about it.

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It's not the case that, you know,[br]someone else will necessarily like it,

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but it really does feel like[br]making collage just with, you know,

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the whole world as[br]your cupboard of things to arrange.

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Certainly in art, I think,[br]the most important things

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happen on a subconscious level.

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When I approach a writing project,[br]I don't think about it like that.

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In fact, and I say this not[br]as a joke or to sort of disparage myself,

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but I really don't think[br]about much at all.

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It's very -- I'm just very open, you know,[br]to what do I feel like working on,

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what's interesting to me right now,[br]what am I curious about?

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But I never think about what[br]the potential use of something would be.

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Like I was saying before,[br]there's a quality of art

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that is useless in the very,[br]very best way.

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I mean, that is like the very highest[br]compliment I could pay.

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And if I started thinking about[br]what I would achieve

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for myself psychologically[br]or in search of meaning or catharsis,

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that's just another kind of use,

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just in almost the same way that

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trying to make something[br]you could sell for money is a kind of use.

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It's not to say[br]that those two thing might, you know,

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wouldn't be good in your life,

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but I don't think that[br]they make a good work of art.

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They're not a good starting point.

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Don DeLillo once said:

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"Nobody writes his first book.[br]It just happens."

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At a certain point,[br]you find the printer is, you know,

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all these pages are coming out.

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You think: "Oh my God,[br]I can't believe I did this!"

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I believe that.

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I mean, maybe it's a little different[br]if you start late in life,

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and you've been, you know,[br]sort of incubating an idea for a long time

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but most people when[br]they write their first book,

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at a certain point, they realize[br]they have a book on their hands.

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And the second book is different[br]because then,

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you have something[br]that you're responding to,

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you have your own expectations.

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If you published your first book,[br]you have the world' expectations.

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So I found the second book[br]somewhat more difficult because of that,

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but I'd started the second book[br]before my first book was published.

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So in a way, I was able[br]to escape some of those traps.

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But then, after I have written two novels,

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I wrote a work of non-fiction[br]about eating animals,

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about animal farming.

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And I think it's not a coincidence that[br]I decided to move in a different direction

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because I was starting to feel[br]the weight of momentum.

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You know, I didn't want[br]to do a third thing

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because I've done two previous things.

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I didn't want to make a choice[br]about tomorrow

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just because of what I did yesterday.

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So maybe even to a fault, I resisted that

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and decided to move off[br]and try something else.

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I think there are a lot of ways[br]of talking about choices in art.

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And it's a mistake to think that

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the way we talk about it[br]retrospectively as critics,

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which is very useful and interesting,

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but it's a mistake that[br]that's the same language of creation.

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Somebody once said,[br]I can't remember who

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- maybe it was Oscar Wilde, [br]I can't remember -

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said: "There are only two kinds[br]of objects in the world:

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those that charm us[br]and those that don't charm us."

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And, you know, something can be charming[br]in the most completely simple way

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and for whatever reason, it speaks to us.

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We like it. It is for us.

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If something isn't charming, [br]it's mundane and it's not that we hate it,

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it's just that it has[br]no great effect on us.

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And each person, of course, has his own[br]or her own sense of what is charming.

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And, you know, in a way,

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writing just boils down to asking[br]that question again and again,

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like, this is charming or not.

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Something charming can mean[br]that it's very painful.

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It doesn't mean[br]that it's happy and beautiful.

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It can mean it's very ugly,[br]it can mean that it is funny,

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it can mean that it is serious,[br]it can be tragic, it can be comic.

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I think charming really just means,[br]in a certain way,

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that it's authentic[br]and exceptional to you.

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I mean, people often ask me[br]why do I write about family so often.

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I find that such a weird question.

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I don't even know how to answer

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because the answer feels so obvious to me.

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You know, nobody asks J.K. Rowling[br]why she writes about wizards so much.

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That, to me, is weird.

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That's a weird choice she made[br]that requires some explanation

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because nobody knows wizards,[br]nobody interacts with wizards,

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nobody can't fall asleep at night[br]because of their relationship to wizards,

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but everyone has a family.

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Even people whose families are absent.

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Maybe even, especially people[br]whose families are absent.

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You know, these are[br]the main themes of life

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and they've been the main themes[br]of literature since Genesis.

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So I assume I'll always write[br]about family.

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Families is also[br]especially important to me

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but you know, whether it will take[br]the form of fathers and sons-in-laws,

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or whether it will take the form[br]of a married couple in a comedy,

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that I don't know.

0:11:57.041,0:11:59.572
(Louisiana Channel)

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(Supported by Nordea Fonden)

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(louisiana.dk/channel)