0:00:02.849,0:00:05.420 Riitta Ikonen: Meet our friend Bob. 0:00:05.444,0:00:07.728 We met on a wintery night 0:00:07.752,0:00:12.973 in the company of the members[br]of the New York Indoor Gardening Society. 0:00:12.997,0:00:17.157 And one of the regulars[br]was this charismatic gentleman 0:00:17.181,0:00:20.066 studying the wonders[br]of carnivorous plants. 0:00:21.030,0:00:22.251 We were there 0:00:22.275,0:00:25.494 looking for collaborators[br]for an art project 0:00:25.518,0:00:29.009 looking at modern humans'[br]belonging to nature. 0:00:29.772,0:00:33.483 Karoline Hjorth: We couldn't resist[br]slipping a little note in Bob's pocket 0:00:33.507,0:00:35.134 to say we'd love to hear from him. 0:00:35.158,0:00:39.070 And the next day, he called us[br]and excitedly proclaimed how, 0:00:39.094,0:00:42.315 "This is not a time in my life[br]when I want to lay around in bed." 0:00:42.633,0:00:43.792 And the next week, 0:00:43.816,0:00:47.212 we were all sitting on a J train[br]to Forest Park in Queens. 0:00:49.220,0:00:51.149 RI: Bob has worked for decades 0:00:51.173,0:00:54.228 in New York's fashion[br]photography industry, 0:00:54.252,0:00:56.776 and he had to be replaced by three people 0:00:56.800,0:01:00.429 when he eventually chose[br]to move on to new adventures. 0:01:01.350,0:01:03.707 Bob agreed to collaborate with us 0:01:03.731,0:01:06.934 on the condition that we wouldn't[br]mess with the style 0:01:06.958,0:01:10.316 that he had taken many decades to perfect. 0:01:10.674,0:01:12.504 So we promised to do just that, 0:01:12.528,0:01:15.622 and only added a few pine needles. 0:01:16.325,0:01:17.951 You might be wondering 0:01:17.975,0:01:22.155 why the two of us were trimming[br]Bob's pine needle beret in the park 0:01:22.179,0:01:23.699 in the first place. 0:01:24.491,0:01:26.672 We met a few years prior, 0:01:26.696,0:01:29.601 when I was investigating on the internet, 0:01:29.625,0:01:34.712 looking for a collaborator[br]for an art project 0:01:34.736,0:01:38.767 looking at modern humans'[br]relationship to nature. 0:01:39.093,0:01:40.307 So I do what people do, 0:01:40.331,0:01:43.569 I go to Google and I type in three words: 0:01:43.593,0:01:44.887 "Norway," 0:01:44.911,0:01:47.139 "grannies" and "photographer." 0:01:47.854,0:01:50.251 And I click on the number one[br]search result, 0:01:50.275,0:01:52.180 which was Karoline Hjorth here. 0:01:52.204,0:01:53.205 (Laughter) 0:01:53.229,0:01:56.480 KH: I had just put out a book[br]about Norwegian grandmothers. 0:01:56.946,0:01:58.509 And initially, we teamed up 0:01:58.533,0:02:02.314 to look at how natural phenomena[br]were explained through human form. 0:02:02.644,0:02:04.899 And we started investigating folktales 0:02:04.923,0:02:07.116 in a small coastal city in Norway. 0:02:08.538,0:02:13.028 RI: We reasoned that the older[br]the local interviewee, 0:02:13.052,0:02:17.607 the closer we would be[br]to these talking rocks of these stories. 0:02:18.814,0:02:22.831 KH: Agnes, for example,[br]is Norway's oldest parachuting granny. 0:02:23.609,0:02:25.974 Her latest jump was at 91. 0:02:26.609,0:02:30.451 And this portrait is an homage[br]to the fabled north wind 0:02:30.475,0:02:33.026 often featured in Nordic folk tales. 0:02:34.141,0:02:37.156 We met another fabled character[br]called Lyktemann, 0:02:37.180,0:02:39.545 on a bog just outside of Oslo. 0:02:39.927,0:02:45.656 Lyktemann's presence as mysterious lights[br]has been recorded for centuries 0:02:45.680,0:02:48.910 in many different cultures[br]under as many different names, 0:02:48.934,0:02:51.236 like Joan the Wad, will-o'-the-wisp 0:02:51.260,0:02:52.993 or the man of the lantern. 0:02:53.633,0:02:55.333 The contemporary view 0:02:55.357,0:02:57.688 or the contemporary[br]explanation to these lights 0:02:57.712,0:03:00.696 is that they are the product[br]of ignited marsh gas. 0:03:01.650,0:03:03.372 The more adventurous view 0:03:03.396,0:03:06.650 is that a character appears[br]when the fog hangs low, 0:03:06.674,0:03:09.937 and there are unwary travelers about[br]who have lost their path. 0:03:10.675,0:03:13.897 RI: He is known for being[br]quite a mischievous character, 0:03:13.921,0:03:18.048 never quite revealing the true nature[br]of his intentions. 0:03:18.425,0:03:21.942 KH: And as Bengt is an expert[br]in astronavigation, 0:03:21.966,0:03:23.647 an ex-submarine captain 0:03:23.671,0:03:27.577 and the previous chief mate[br]on board the tall ship Christian Radich, 0:03:27.601,0:03:30.588 Bengt was the perfect[br]personification of Lyktemann. 0:03:31.001,0:03:32.668 RI: In our initial quest 0:03:32.692,0:03:36.303 of looking into the contemporary[br]role of folklore, 0:03:36.327,0:03:38.037 we were quickly pooh-poohed 0:03:38.061,0:03:42.767 for looking into something seen[br]as childish children's bedtime stories. 0:03:43.284,0:03:48.234 Even saying the word "folklore"[br]got people looking really puzzled. 0:03:48.258,0:03:50.328 KH: And it wasn't just the accent. 0:03:50.948,0:03:52.249 (Laughter) 0:03:52.273,0:03:56.498 RI: We even had an eighth-generation[br]local potter state 0:03:56.522,0:03:58.712 that people from this region 0:03:58.736,0:04:02.082 have come up with some[br]of this nation's best inventions, 0:04:02.106,0:04:06.392 and they don't have time to turn rocks[br]and wonder what is under. 0:04:07.543,0:04:10.749 This rejection was exactly what we needed 0:04:10.773,0:04:13.074 to keep poking further into this subject. 0:04:13.098,0:04:14.916 (Laughter) 0:04:14.940,0:04:16.765 KH: We continued to interview people 0:04:16.789,0:04:19.117 about their relationship[br]with their surroundings 0:04:19.141,0:04:20.537 and started wondering 0:04:20.561,0:04:23.005 what's happening[br]with people's imagination. 0:04:23.339,0:04:28.208 Can our relationship to nature[br]really be explained so pragmatically, 0:04:28.232,0:04:29.921 so entirely boringly, 0:04:29.945,0:04:33.351 so that a rock is just[br]a good old straightforward rock, 0:04:33.375,0:04:36.170 and a lake is just a basic wet place, 0:04:36.194,0:04:37.927 entirely separate from us? 0:04:38.559,0:04:43.598 Can our surroundings really be explained[br]to such a dull degree of rationality? 0:04:46.167,0:04:50.437 RI: The name of our project,[br]"Eyes as Big as Plates," 0:04:50.461,0:04:52.522 is borrowed from a folk tale. 0:04:52.546,0:04:55.990 And there's one with a dog[br]that's living beneath a bridge 0:04:56.014,0:04:57.187 and another version, 0:04:57.211,0:04:59.413 where there is a troll[br]doing the same thing. 0:04:59.760,0:05:03.385 And this open-eyed[br]and potentially risky approach 0:05:03.409,0:05:05.647 to seeing the world around you 0:05:05.671,0:05:10.306 has become an emblem of the curiosity[br]that guides our interactions. 0:05:11.903,0:05:14.656 KH: Serendipity is our project manager. 0:05:14.680,0:05:18.299 And ideally, we meet our collaborators[br]through random chance. 0:05:18.688,0:05:20.811 In the opposite lane in the swimming pool, 0:05:20.835,0:05:22.426 at the choir practice, 0:05:22.450,0:05:23.791 in a noodle bar 0:05:23.815,0:05:27.093 or in a Senegalese fishing harbor, 0:05:27.117,0:05:28.267 as you do. 0:05:28.792,0:05:31.163 Each image starts with a conversation, 0:05:31.187,0:05:32.910 much like a casual interview. 0:05:33.869,0:05:36.885 RI: And we never call[br]these collaborators "models," 0:05:36.909,0:05:39.767 as there are three authors to each image, 0:05:39.791,0:05:44.002 all equally crucial[br]to the realization of their portrait. 0:05:45.799,0:05:47.895 There is no age limit, 0:05:47.919,0:05:51.490 absolutely anybody[br]with an interesting lived life 0:05:51.514,0:05:53.708 is more than qualified to join. 0:05:54.292,0:05:55.832 KH: This is Boubou. 0:05:55.856,0:05:58.206 His son-in-law happened to be[br]in this harbor 0:05:58.230,0:06:00.680 when we came looking for locations. 0:06:00.704,0:06:05.553 And one impromptu house visit[br]and fish market shopping spree later, 0:06:05.577,0:06:09.442 Boubou and his family[br]all waded in a low tide with us. 0:06:09.466,0:06:12.783 RI: A wearable sculpture is born[br]from the conversation 0:06:12.807,0:06:14.268 with each collaborator 0:06:14.292,0:06:18.156 and is made from materials[br]found in the surroundings. 0:06:18.546,0:06:23.903 About one third of Senegal's arable land[br]is devoted to millet, 0:06:23.927,0:06:26.688 an incredibly itchy-to-wear, 0:06:26.712,0:06:31.141 nutritious and hardy staple[br]with deep cultural roots. 0:06:31.626,0:06:33.324 This is Mane, 0:06:33.348,0:06:37.029 one of the grand grandmothers[br]of the Ndos village, 0:06:37.053,0:06:39.942 a tornado of vigor and energy. 0:06:39.966,0:06:42.252 And she applauded to our invitation 0:06:42.276,0:06:45.466 to portray her in her personal[br]favorite crop, 0:06:45.490,0:06:47.799 with which she works every day. 0:06:49.769,0:06:52.969 KH: It's important[br]that participation is voluntary. 0:06:53.523,0:06:55.831 (Laughter) 0:06:55.855,0:06:57.776 If you have doubts in the beginning, 0:06:57.800,0:06:59.602 you will definitely regret it 0:06:59.626,0:07:03.577 by the time Riitta is stuffing[br]cold, wet bull kelp up your nose. 0:07:03.601,0:07:06.604 (Laughter) 0:07:07.063,0:07:10.253 Working with an analog camera[br]means the process can be slow 0:07:10.277,0:07:11.785 and physically challenging. 0:07:12.086,0:07:13.696 The person in front of the camera 0:07:13.720,0:07:17.117 might be kneeling for three hours[br]in a freezing sleet, 0:07:17.141,0:07:19.177 be bombarded by mosquitoes 0:07:19.201,0:07:21.025 or actually, they can also be allergic 0:07:21.049,0:07:23.247 to the local flora[br]they've just been coated in. 0:07:23.271,0:07:24.715 RI: And many other things. 0:07:24.739,0:07:26.522 (Laughter) 0:07:26.546,0:07:29.291 And then, there's,[br]of course, the elements. 0:07:29.315,0:07:33.006 Unpredictability[br]is one of the main drivers 0:07:33.030,0:07:35.430 that keeps this process interesting. 0:07:36.268,0:07:39.058 For example, in Iceland, 0:07:39.082,0:07:42.717 we were in operation mode,[br]shooting for two weeks, 0:07:42.741,0:07:46.498 without knowing that the camera[br]was not functioning properly. 0:07:46.522,0:07:47.672 Ooh, right? 0:07:48.022,0:07:50.059 KH: And because we work[br]with analog cameras 0:07:50.083,0:07:51.373 with actual film rolls, 0:07:51.397,0:07:53.713 the excitement[br]from the shoots keeps giving 0:07:53.737,0:07:56.019 until we pick up[br]the negatives from the lab. 0:07:57.662,0:08:00.324 RI: Luckily, Edda, pictured here, 0:08:00.348,0:08:04.278 was one of the few that was captured[br]on film in Iceland. 0:08:04.302,0:08:07.945 Pictured here amid bubbling,[br]steaming hot springs 0:08:07.969,0:08:10.521 between two tectonic plates. 0:08:11.092,0:08:14.163 Supposedly, there are these little[br]hot spring birds 0:08:14.187,0:08:16.203 that dive into these bubbles, 0:08:16.227,0:08:18.084 and according to the legend, 0:08:18.108,0:08:21.194 these little birds represent[br]the souls of the dead. 0:08:24.361,0:08:26.131 We have the honor 0:08:26.155,0:08:31.467 of working with some of the toughest[br]and bravest and coolest people around, 0:08:31.491,0:08:33.252 and thoroughly enjoy 0:08:33.276,0:08:38.299 how some of our works and portraits[br]stomp on stereotypes about age, 0:08:38.323,0:08:40.003 gender and nationality. 0:08:41.601,0:08:45.275 KH: To us, much of Western society[br]is unnecessarily confused 0:08:45.299,0:08:46.919 when it comes to the usefulness 0:08:46.943,0:08:49.732 of this absolutely[br]rock-and-roll demographic. 0:08:49.756,0:08:50.906 (Laughter) 0:08:51.966,0:08:56.768 RI: Attitude, life experience and stamina[br]are some of the main traits 0:08:56.792,0:08:59.333 we have found amongst[br]all our collaborators, 0:08:59.357,0:09:04.016 as well as a formidable curiosity[br]for new experiences. 0:09:05.548,0:09:09.807 KH: We have noticed[br]how the solitary figures in our images 0:09:09.831,0:09:14.045 are increasingly viewed as representations[br]of the age of loneliness, 0:09:14.069,0:09:15.749 known as the Eremocene. 0:09:17.442,0:09:19.981 RI: We are trying to encourage 0:09:20.005,0:09:25.877 a new way of participating in[br]and communicating with our surroundings. 0:09:26.482,0:09:27.791 KH: There is the assumption 0:09:27.815,0:09:30.736 that humans have created[br]a new geological epoch, 0:09:30.760,0:09:34.150 and we need to learn how to see[br]what our role is in it. 0:09:36.214,0:09:39.855 RI: We'll be working with farmers, 0:09:39.879,0:09:44.005 cosmologists, geo-ecologists, 0:09:44.029,0:09:47.688 ethnomusicologists and marine biologists 0:09:47.712,0:09:53.077 to see how art can change[br]the way we think, act and live. 0:09:55.104,0:09:58.803 KH: It's not clear who or what[br]is the protagonist in our work, 0:09:58.827,0:10:02.326 whether it's the human figure[br]or the nature around them, 0:10:02.350,0:10:03.891 and we like it that way. 0:10:06.091,0:10:09.091 Ten years and 15 countries[br]into the project, 0:10:09.115,0:10:12.384 we are not sure how, if,[br]or when this project will end. 0:10:13.072,0:10:16.556 RI: We have vowed to continue[br]as long as it's fun, 0:10:16.580,0:10:21.069 and we'll keep making new images[br]and more books that explore -- 0:10:21.093,0:10:24.787 KH: How to balance life amongst[br]the effects of the climate crisis. 0:10:26.386,0:10:29.065 The writer Roy Scranton[br]beautifully summarized 0:10:29.089,0:10:31.155 how our project can be approached. 0:10:32.069,0:10:33.642 "We need to learn to see, 0:10:33.666,0:10:35.688 not just with Western eyes 0:10:35.712,0:10:39.466 but with Islamic eyes and Inuit eyes, 0:10:39.490,0:10:44.065 not just with human eyes[br]but with golden-cheeked warbler eyes, 0:10:44.089,0:10:45.831 coho salmon eyes 0:10:45.855,0:10:47.839 and polar bear eyes, 0:10:47.863,0:10:50.260 and not even just with eyes at all, 0:10:50.284,0:10:54.236 but with the wild, barely articulate[br]being of clouds and seas 0:10:54.260,0:10:57.648 and seas and rocks and trees and stars." 0:10:59.728,0:11:05.158 RI: Perhaps if we start seeing ourselves[br]through coho salmon eyes, 0:11:05.182,0:11:11.238 we might begin to synchronize better[br]with our fellow flora, fauna and funga. 0:11:11.720,0:11:16.798 To do this requires[br]both imagination and empathy. 0:11:17.124,0:11:19.846 And curiosity is at the root of both. 0:11:20.434,0:11:24.910 KH: As Halvar, one of our first[br]collaborators, said nearly 10 years ago, 0:11:24.934,0:11:26.871 "If you stop being curious, 0:11:26.895,0:11:29.013 you might as well be dead." 0:11:29.760,0:11:30.929 (Both) Thank you. 0:11:30.953,0:11:32.134 (Laughter) 0:11:32.158,0:11:37.269 (Applause)