[Script Info]
Title: 
[Events]
Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,0:00:00.10,0:00:15.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}34c3 preroll music{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:00:15.06,0:00:19.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Herald Angel (H): OK, probably a couple\Nyears ago you realize that a lot of the
Dialogue: 0,0:00:19.24,0:00:25.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,refugees coming up from Syria and North\NAfrica where we're communicating. We're
Dialogue: 0,0:00:25.65,0:00:29.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,using technology in an interesting way to\Nfind their way around a lot of the Border
Dialogue: 0,0:00:29.92,0:00:36.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Patrol's. A lot of the hurdles that were\Nput up in their way. In the US we have a
Dialogue: 0,0:00:36.100,0:00:41.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,similar issue but it's different in many\Nways with illegal immigrants trying to
Dialogue: 0,0:00:41.78,0:00:47.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,stay underneath the radar. Allison\NMcDonald from the University of Michigan
Dialogue: 0,0:00:47.91,0:00:54.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is, has been studying how immigrants in\Nthe States deal with technology and it's
Dialogue: 0,0:00:54.06,0:00:59.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,very different from here. Her interests\Nare in technology, privacy, society and
Dialogue: 0,0:00:59.74,0:01:03.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,human rights and I think we're gonna have\Nan awesome talk from her. So, well, please
Dialogue: 0,0:01:03.84,0:01:16.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,welcome her and we'll get moving.\N{\i1}Applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:01:16.34,0:01:19.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Allision McDonald: OK, thanks for coming.\NI'm Allison from the University of
Dialogue: 0,0:01:19.91,0:01:26.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Michigan. I'm talking today primarily\Nabout technology in immigration
Dialogue: 0,0:01:26.05,0:01:30.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,enforcement and specifically about how the\Nimmigrant community in the United States
Dialogue: 0,0:01:30.47,0:01:36.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is responding to those changes and\Nespecially the undocumented community.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:36.17,0:01:40.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Before we get too far into the details I\Njust wanted to tell a little bit of a
Dialogue: 0,0:01:40.16,0:01:45.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,story. This is Anna Maria she is not a\Nreal person she is sort of a compositive
Dialogue: 0,0:01:45.48,0:01:49.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of many people that we spoke to but her\Nstory is really representative of a lot of
Dialogue: 0,0:01:49.89,0:01:56.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people that we know are living in\Nthe United States today. She and her
Dialogue: 0,0:01:56.25,0:02:02.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,husband emigrated from Mexico about 12\Nyears ago into the United States. She
Dialogue: 0,0:02:02.52,0:02:06.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,really wanted to have children, but\Ncouldn't get the fertility support that
Dialogue: 0,0:02:06.37,0:02:10.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,she needed in Mexico so she came to the\NUnited States. And now she and her husband
Dialogue: 0,0:02:10.56,0:02:17.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have two children who are attending US\Npublic schools. She and her husband are
Dialogue: 0,0:02:17.53,0:02:22.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,both working and saving up to buy a\Nhouse. They pay taxes; they attend church
Dialogue: 0,0:02:22.51,0:02:27.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,every Sunday. They're involved in a lot of\Ncommunity events and are really integrated
Dialogue: 0,0:02:27.07,0:02:33.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,into the local community. One\Ndifference from Anna Maria and a lot of
Dialogue: 0,0:02:33.75,0:02:39.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,other people is that she's in the United\NStates as an undocumented immigrant. What
Dialogue: 0,0:02:39.93,0:02:45.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this means is that she either entered the\NUnited States without legal authorization
Dialogue: 0,0:02:45.19,0:02:56.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or she came on a Visa and overstayed the\Nallotted time. That means that day to day
Dialogue: 0,0:02:56.09,0:03:03.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,she has to worry about being found and\Ndeported back to Mexico, removed from her
Dialogue: 0,0:03:03.29,0:03:11.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,home and this puts her in quite a\Nprecarious situation trying to live a
Dialogue: 0,0:03:11.37,0:03:17.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,normal life, a life similar to a lot of\Nother people in our communities. But with
Dialogue: 0,0:03:17.07,0:03:21.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this constant concern that this life\Ncould be taken away from her if she's
Dialogue: 0,0:03:21.49,0:03:28.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,detected. Other than this this one point\Nshe really lives this immigration story
Dialogue: 0,0:03:28.16,0:03:34.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the United States loves to tell. We\Nlove to have this narrative of people
Dialogue: 0,0:03:34.20,0:03:37.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,being able to come to the United States\Nand build lives for themselves that they
Dialogue: 0,0:03:37.83,0:03:42.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,might not be able to build in their\Norigin countries. And that's exactly
Dialogue: 0,0:03:42.50,0:03:51.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what she's done. But just as natural to\Nthis immigration story is a history of a
Dialogue: 0,0:03:51.20,0:03:58.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,lot of discrimination, racism and\Nxenophobia. All the way back in the 1700s
Dialogue: 0,0:03:58.65,0:04:03.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we've had legislation that prevents people\Nfrom becoming citizens based on their
Dialogue: 0,0:04:03.78,0:04:11.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,origin country. We've had, for example,\Nthe Chinese Exclusion Act preventing
Dialogue: 0,0:04:11.02,0:04:16.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people from China laborers coming to the\NUnited States entirely. The Asiatic barred
Dialogue: 0,0:04:16.80,0:04:21.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,zone a couple years later just drew a box\Non a map and said the people in this
Dialogue: 0,0:04:21.05,0:04:25.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,region can't immigrate to the United\NStates. We've also seen things like the
Dialogue: 0,0:04:25.91,0:04:32.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Johnson Reed Immigration Act in the 1900s\Nwhere the the US took census data from
Dialogue: 0,0:04:32.53,0:04:38.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,before a big wave of immigration putting a\Nquota system in place that essentially
Dialogue: 0,0:04:38.75,0:04:44.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,prevented people from eastern and southern\NEurope from coming to the United States.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:44.63,0:04:51.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This history of discrimination and racism\Ncontinues to today. Many of you, I'm sure
Dialogue: 0,0:04:51.77,0:04:57.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have heard of what's happening now with\Nthe so-called Muslim ban where a list of
Dialogue: 0,0:04:57.48,0:05:01.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,seven countries are now blacklisted.\NImmigrants are unable to enter the
Dialogue: 0,0:05:01.84,0:05:11.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,country. And this is just another data\Npoint to show the trend that our discourse
Dialogue: 0,0:05:11.59,0:05:20.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and immigration policy in the United\NStates is often racialized. I want to talk
Dialogue: 0,0:05:20.79,0:05:23.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a little bit about what immigration\Nenforcement actually looks like in the
Dialogue: 0,0:05:23.22,0:05:30.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,United States. The agency that manages\Nenforcement is called the US Immigration
Dialogue: 0,0:05:30.05,0:05:39.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and Customs Enforcement or ICE. They're in\Ncharge of enforcing within the borders
Dialogue: 0,0:05:39.64,0:05:44.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,once people have already entered the\Ncountry, finding people without
Dialogue: 0,0:05:44.27,0:05:50.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,documentation or managing immigration\Ncases. Over the last couple of decades
Dialogue: 0,0:05:50.14,0:05:56.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they've really been gaining in size and\Npower. This is anything from the removal
Dialogue: 0,0:05:56.22,0:06:03.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of privacy restrictions on sharing data\Nbetween federal agencies to an increase in
Dialogue: 0,0:06:03.33,0:06:10.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,financial resources after 9/11. And this\Nis happening even today. President Trump
Dialogue: 0,0:06:10.53,0:06:16.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,back in January had an executive order\Nthat is looking to add another 5,000
Dialogue: 0,0:06:16.36,0:06:21.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,agents to their current 20,000 over the\Nnext couple of years. So this is an agency
Dialogue: 0,0:06:21.42,0:06:26.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's continuing should be bolstered. And\Nanother way that they're changing,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:26.71,0:06:32.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,recently, is the way that they're\Nintegrating technology into their jobs.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:32.87,0:06:37.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This photo in particular shows a\Nfingerprint scanner. The collection of
Dialogue: 0,0:06:37.56,0:06:42.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,biometric data is becoming really common\Nin immigration enforcements. And it's not
Dialogue: 0,0:06:42.86,0:06:48.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just when someone's taken into an\Nimmigration office but mobile fingerprint
Dialogue: 0,0:06:48.31,0:06:52.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,scanners are being taken into communities.\NThere are stories of people having their
Dialogue: 0,0:06:52.48,0:06:58.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,biometric data taken, even without arrest.\NBeing stopped in the street or being near
Dialogue: 0,0:06:58.44,0:07:03.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,someone who's being detained for a\Nparticular reason. Everyone in the area or
Dialogue: 0,0:07:03.31,0:07:09.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,everyone in the household having their\Nbiometric data taken. We've also seen the
Dialogue: 0,0:07:09.37,0:07:13.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,removal of some restrictions on how this\Ndata can be shared between federal
Dialogue: 0,0:07:13.37,0:07:21.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,agencies. In particular President Trump\Nhas reinstated the Secure Communities
Dialogue: 0,0:07:21.82,0:07:27.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Program which allows local police officers\Nwhen they're booking people for local
Dialogue: 0,0:07:27.23,0:07:33.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,crimes or in local jails to take biometric\Ndata and cross-check it against federal
Dialogue: 0,0:07:33.30,0:07:47.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,immigration databases and crime databases.\NWe're also seeing evidence that,... So
Dialogue: 0,0:07:47.22,0:07:50.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DHS, is the Department of Homeland\NSecurity the umbrella organization over
Dialogue: 0,0:07:50.53,0:07:59.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ICE. We have recently seen through a\NFreedom of Information request that this
Dialogue: 0,0:07:59.34,0:08:05.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,organization has used cell-site simulators\Nor stingrays over 1,800 times in the last
Dialogue: 0,0:08:05.43,0:08:11.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,five years. We don't know all of the cases\Nwhere these have been used. And we really
Dialogue: 0,0:08:11.96,0:08:16.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,can't speculate these cases are shrouded\Nin secrecy and we don't know when and how
Dialogue: 0,0:08:16.65,0:08:20.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they're being used. But we do have one\Ncase, it's actually close to my home in
Dialogue: 0,0:08:20.62,0:08:27.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Detroit Michigan where an undocumented\Nman, ICE was able to send a warrant to
Dialogue: 0,0:08:27.58,0:08:32.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Facebook to get his phone number and then\Nuse that phone number with a cell site
Dialogue: 0,0:08:32.95,0:08:41.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,simulator to track him to his home and\Nended up deporting him to El Salvador.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:41.73,0:08:46.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We're also seeing this move to start\Ncollecting social media data at the
Dialogue: 0,0:08:46.94,0:08:52.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,borders. This isn't just for people on\Ntemporary visas but also nationlised
Dialogue: 0,0:08:52.44,0:09:00.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,citizens and people with permanent\Nresidency cards. This might not be so
Dialogue: 0,0:09:00.38,0:09:03.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,relevant to people who are already in the\Ncountry because they're not crossing the
Dialogue: 0,0:09:03.79,0:09:09.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,border regularly, but this might be\Nimpactful if they have friends and family
Dialogue: 0,0:09:09.25,0:09:14.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,crossing borders to visit them. And new\Nimmigrants as well. This is a database
Dialogue: 0,0:09:14.66,0:09:21.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we don't really know what it's being\Nused for yet. But there are some hints in
Dialogue: 0,0:09:21.13,0:09:27.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the way that, for example, ICE has been\Nsoliciting contracts from big data
Dialogue: 0,0:09:27.50,0:09:32.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,companies to create algorithms to do this\Nextreme vetting to be able to find
Dialogue: 0,0:09:32.61,0:09:40.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,suspicious activity or suspicious people\Nfrom troves of social media data. In fact
Dialogue: 0,0:09:40.42,0:09:44.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we have already seen some of these\Ncontracts being awarded. There was a 3
Dialogue: 0,0:09:44.52,0:09:50.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,million contract recently given to a\Ncompany called Giant Oak who claims to
Dialogue: 0,0:09:50.98,0:09:57.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,take big data and find bad guys. Their\Ncreepy slogans, "We see the people behind
Dialogue: 0,0:09:57.55,0:10:07.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the data" 'trademark'. And this is just\Nanother example of the way that technology
Dialogue: 0,0:10:07.27,0:10:13.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is being used to... in ways that are sort\Nof unpredictable at this point but
Dialogue: 0,0:10:13.63,0:10:21.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we have many examples where this\Nstyle of research can often be
Dialogue: 0,0:10:21.61,0:10:29.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,discriminatory. And it might be expected\Nthat at this point in time technologies
Dialogue: 0,0:10:29.66,0:10:34.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ending up integrated into law enforcement\Nin the way that it's being integrated into
Dialogue: 0,0:10:34.04,0:10:38.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a lot of different parts of our lives. But\Nthere's a reason that this moment in
Dialogue: 0,0:10:38.13,0:10:44.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,particular is so frightening. This\Nadministration's making it abundantly
Dialogue: 0,0:10:44.24,0:10:50.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,clear what they think of immigration. Just\Nin less than a year so far we've seen the
Dialogue: 0,0:10:50.14,0:10:54.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,repeal of the deferred action for\NChildhood Arrivals Program which you might
Dialogue: 0,0:10:54.47,0:11:00.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,also hear as the DREAM Act or people here\Ntalking about Dreamers. This is a program
Dialogue: 0,0:11:00.84,0:11:05.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that allowed people who entered the\Ncountry under the age of 16 to get work
Dialogue: 0,0:11:05.22,0:11:11.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,permits and driver licenses and attend\Nuniversity and have their immigration
Dialogue: 0,0:11:11.82,0:11:18.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,cases delayed so long as they're meeting\Neducational goals. We've seen the
Dialogue: 0,0:11:18.64,0:11:27.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,elimination of privacy protections from\Nsharing data between federal agencies. And
Dialogue: 0,0:11:27.87,0:11:31.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in addition to the actual concrete policy\Nchanges, we're hearing a lot of really
Dialogue: 0,0:11:31.79,0:11:37.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,nasty rhetoric around immigrants and\Nimmigration. That's causing a lot of
Dialogue: 0,0:11:37.08,0:11:41.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,concern among people who are in the\Nimmigrant community or who are allies to
Dialogue: 0,0:11:41.79,0:11:46.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the immigrant community about what this\Nmeans in terms of harassment and hatred
Dialogue: 0,0:11:46.79,0:11:55.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even beyond the the legal changes. We're\Nalso seeing a change in deportation
Dialogue: 0,0:11:55.35,0:12:04.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,practices while Obama was prolific in\Ndeportations. He had a very explicit
Dialogue: 0,0:12:04.99,0:12:10.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,policy in place that the priority\Ndeportations would be people who were
Dialogue: 0,0:12:10.43,0:12:14.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,national security threats whatever that\Nmight mean, or people with serious
Dialogue: 0,0:12:14.09,0:12:19.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,criminal records, or people who had just\Nrecently entered the United States. That
Dialogue: 0,0:12:19.54,0:12:23.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,policy is being removed and we're seeing\Nmore and more people who are deported
Dialogue: 0,0:12:23.21,0:12:31.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,after living in the United States for a\Nlong time with family and friends and
Dialogue: 0,0:12:31.35,0:12:36.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,lives built in the communities; who might\Nhave family or children who are US
Dialogue: 0,0:12:36.20,0:12:47.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,citizens who don't have criminal records.\NSo what does this mean for Anna Maria? For
Dialogue: 0,0:12:47.04,0:12:51.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,one without a criminal record. She\Npreviously might have been able to have
Dialogue: 0,0:12:51.27,0:12:54.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,some high amount of confidence that she\Nwouldn't be a priority target and that
Dialogue: 0,0:12:54.74,0:13:02.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,confidence is being eroded. We're \Nseeing lots of people who previously
Dialogue: 0,0:13:02.40,0:13:10.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,wouldn't have been targeted be deported\Nregardless of their clean record, and lack
Dialogue: 0,0:13:10.71,0:13:17.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of action that really makes them more\Nvisible than they have been in the past.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:17.42,0:13:21.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,She and her husband are starting to think\Nabout, what happens to their children if
Dialogue: 0,0:13:21.26,0:13:25.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they're deported. They have to make the\Ndecision because the children were born in
Dialogue: 0,0:13:25.12,0:13:29.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the United States, they're US citizens.\NThey have to decide whether they should
Dialogue: 0,0:13:29.95,0:13:33.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,give custody to friends and family who can\Nstay in the United States, or if they
Dialogue: 0,0:13:33.94,0:13:38.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,should take them back to Mexico, rather\Nthan letting them stay and get the US
Dialogue: 0,0:13:38.43,0:13:44.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,education that they want to have. She has\Nto be concerned about ICE being in her
Dialogue: 0,0:13:44.00,0:13:48.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,community and outside of her home.\NPossibly having her fingerprints taken if
Dialogue: 0,0:13:48.59,0:13:53.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,she's in the wrong place at the wrong\Ntime. She might have to worry about
Dialogue: 0,0:13:53.03,0:13:57.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,friends and family from Mexico visiting,\Nand crossing the border, and having social
Dialogue: 0,0:13:57.73,0:14:04.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,media data taken from them. That, I mean,\Nas we all know, might indicate a lot more
Dialogue: 0,0:14:04.25,0:14:10.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,than just about the person who's crossing\Nthe border. Our social media lives give a
Dialogue: 0,0:14:10.65,0:14:17.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,lot of information about her networks that\Nmight expose information about her. It's
Dialogue: 0,0:14:17.00,0:14:20.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,also worth noting that Anna Maria is far\Nfrom alone. There are as many as 11
Dialogue: 0,0:14:20.46,0:14:25.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,million undocumented immigrants in the\NUnited States today. Over 2/3 of them have
Dialogue: 0,0:14:25.05,0:14:29.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,been in the United States for more than 10\Nyears which means they're integrated into
Dialogue: 0,0:14:29.00,0:14:35.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,our communities, they own houses, they\Nhave jobs, they pay taxes, they live
Dialogue: 0,0:14:35.06,0:14:40.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,really normal lives to the extent that\Nthey can in the United States. They've
Dialogue: 0,0:14:40.41,0:14:48.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,built their lives here. So with this\Ncontext in mind, I and some of my
Dialogue: 0,0:14:48.63,0:14:53.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,collaborators were wondering, how this is\Nreally changing the way that people use
Dialogue: 0,0:14:53.81,0:15:00.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,technology? Or if it is, given the sort of\Nobjectively heightened risk that they're
Dialogue: 0,0:15:00.63,0:15:04.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,facing day to day. We wanted to know\Nwhether or not there's any sort of
Dialogue: 0,0:15:04.90,0:15:14.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,reaction to those changes happening in\Ntheir daily lives. We reached out to some
Dialogue: 0,0:15:14.55,0:15:18.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,immigration support organizations, so\Nimmigrant rights and activist's
Dialogue: 0,0:15:18.88,0:15:25.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,organizations and worked with them to be\Nable to communicate with this community.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:25.82,0:15:31.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In the end, we were able to talk to 17\Nundocumented immigrants in the Midwest. We
Dialogue: 0,0:15:31.18,0:15:37.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,were primarily asking them about how they\Nmanage risk in their daily lives offline,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:37.13,0:15:42.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as well as online. And whether or not\Nthat's changing over the last year or two
Dialogue: 0,0:15:42.53,0:15:46.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,years, when this discourse around\Nimmigration is really changing, and then
Dialogue: 0,0:15:46.50,0:15:53.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whether these changes that we're seeing,\Nare causing them to maybe react in the way
Dialogue: 0,0:15:53.98,0:16:00.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that they're using technology. I can tell\Nyou a little bit about who we spoke to.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:00.57,0:16:07.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The majority were women, 14 of our 17\Nparticipants were women. Most of them were
Dialogue: 0,0:16:07.04,0:16:12.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in their mid 30s, average age 35. And lots\Nof them had children. So it was a lot of
Dialogue: 0,0:16:12.81,0:16:17.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,parents. Everyone that we spoke to, had\Nbeen in the United States for more than 10
Dialogue: 0,0:16:17.47,0:16:23.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,years. So they really had their lives and\Ntheir communities here. And most of them
Dialogue: 0,0:16:23.19,0:16:26.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,were also from Mexico. That's about\Nconsistent with the immigrant community in
Dialogue: 0,0:16:26.100,0:16:33.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the United States, especially from Latin\NAmerica. The majority are from Mexico. And
Dialogue: 0,0:16:33.68,0:16:37.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then there was a mix of immigration\Nstories. Some of the people we spoke to
Dialogue: 0,0:16:37.24,0:16:43.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,had crossed the southern border by foot or\Notherwise. And some people had overstayed
Dialogue: 0,0:16:43.21,0:16:53.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,visas, had flown to the United States and\Nstayed. So we wanted to first get an idea
Dialogue: 0,0:16:53.12,0:16:57.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of how they're managing and sort of\Nthinking about risk in their daily lives
Dialogue: 0,0:16:57.29,0:17:05.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,offline to get a sense of how deeply it\Nimpacts the way that they're living. What
Dialogue: 0,0:17:05.41,0:17:10.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we found across the board is that\Nimmigration is a really sort of looming
Dialogue: 0,0:17:10.41,0:17:15.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,presence in their lives. They think a lot\Nabout how they're exposing themselves, and
Dialogue: 0,0:17:15.61,0:17:22.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that possibly exposing their status to\Nauthority figures. And they put like a lot
Dialogue: 0,0:17:22.20,0:17:29.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of careful consideration into how to keep\Na low profile. Driving is one really good
Dialogue: 0,0:17:29.98,0:17:37.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,example of this cost-risk cost-benefit\Nanalysis that they're doing. Most people
Dialogue: 0,0:17:37.95,0:17:40.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we spoke to you talked about driving one\Nway or another, and about half chose to
Dialogue: 0,0:17:40.81,0:17:47.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,drive and half chose not to. Most of the\Npeople don't have driver's licenses for
Dialogue: 0,0:17:47.21,0:17:51.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the United States because it's difficult\Nto get them without legal immigration
Dialogue: 0,0:17:51.51,0:17:57.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,papers. So the risk with driving is that\Nif you're stopped, if you're pulled over,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:57.94,0:18:02.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even if you didn't have a traffic\Nviolation, if you stop for a taillight or
Dialogue: 0,0:18:02.10,0:18:06.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,something. The routine is to ask for a\Ndocumentation of your license. And if you
Dialogue: 0,0:18:06.43,0:18:09.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,don't have that there might be more\Nquestions, and in the end, you could
Dialogue: 0,0:18:09.15,0:18:17.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,expose yourself to immigration or other\Nlegal law enforcement. Some people really
Dialogue: 0,0:18:17.18,0:18:23.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,thought that the risk was worth it. To\Nlive their lives how they want to. They're
Dialogue: 0,0:18:23.30,0:18:26.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,going to try to just not think about the\Nrisk and do what they need to do day to
Dialogue: 0,0:18:26.68,0:18:33.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,day. Other people felt that the risk was\Ntoo great and chose not to drive at all.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:33.27,0:18:36.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's a significant sacrifice,\Nespecially in the United States where our
Dialogue: 0,0:18:36.60,0:18:40.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,public transportation systems aren't\Nfantastic. This might mean that they can't
Dialogue: 0,0:18:40.95,0:18:44.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,set their own work schedules, or they\Ncan't take their kids to school if they
Dialogue: 0,0:18:44.12,0:18:49.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,miss the bus. So it's a significant risk.\NBut it's also a big sacrifice if they
Dialogue: 0,0:18:49.75,0:18:56.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,choose not to drive. People also think a\Nlot about how they're exposing themselves
Dialogue: 0,0:18:56.77,0:19:03.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to authority figures. As one example, the\Ndecision to file taxes or not is a big
Dialogue: 0,0:19:03.84,0:19:09.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,risk. So in the United States, you don't\Nneed to have any sort of government ID to
Dialogue: 0,0:19:09.98,0:19:17.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,file taxes, you just need a tax ID. So a\Nlot of these people are filing taxes. But
Dialogue: 0,0:19:17.31,0:19:21.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in order to do that, they are giving up to\Nthe federal government their names, their
Dialogue: 0,0:19:21.77,0:19:27.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,addresses, their employment history,\Ncontact information. And some people think
Dialogue: 0,0:19:27.41,0:19:32.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that that risk is worth it, right. Because\Nthis person for example feels like, by
Dialogue: 0,0:19:32.88,0:19:40.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,paying taxes every year they're able to\Nestablish a good history of upstanding
Dialogue: 0,0:19:40.98,0:19:45.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,behavior. They can maybe have a better\Ncase for getting a legal status if the
Dialogue: 0,0:19:45.39,0:19:56.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,time comes, when that's an option. And\Nanother example of, you know, exposing
Dialogue: 0,0:19:56.95,0:20:02.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,information to authorities, might be\Nfiling for benefits for US born children,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:02.41,0:20:09.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or even library cards, or local ID cards.\NAnd the risk is going to be different in
Dialogue: 0,0:20:09.02,0:20:13.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,each case depending on what they're\Nexposing. Some people chose to forego
Dialogue: 0,0:20:13.84,0:20:20.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,significant benefits to avoid giving that\Ninformation to authorities. This person is
Dialogue: 0,0:20:20.52,0:20:25.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,talking about DACA, the deferred action\Nfor childhood arrival program. This would
Dialogue: 0,0:20:25.100,0:20:30.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,make it much easier for their son to go to\Ncollege, give their son hopefully if they
Dialogue: 0,0:20:30.66,0:20:36.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,trust the program, a much more reliable\Nimmigration status. They wouldn't
Dialogue: 0,0:20:36.28,0:20:41.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,technically have a legal immigration\Nstatus but they would be sort of assured
Dialogue: 0,0:20:41.21,0:20:45.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that their status, or rather their\Nimmigration case is a low priority. They
Dialogue: 0,0:20:45.88,0:20:49.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,wouldn't be targeted. And as long as\Nthey're attending universities, they could
Dialogue: 0,0:20:49.60,0:20:56.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have confidence. So the program says that\Nthey wouldn't be targeted. These people
Dialogue: 0,0:20:56.18,0:21:00.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,were concerned because in order to file\Nthat paperwork for their son, they had to
Dialogue: 0,0:21:00.67,0:21:03.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,give up a lot of information about\Nthemselves: their phone numbers, their
Dialogue: 0,0:21:03.56,0:21:09.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,names, their addresses. And in the end,\Nthey decided not to do it. And
Dialogue: 0,0:21:09.78,0:21:14.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,unfortunately, only weeks after we spoke\Nto this person, the DACA program was
Dialogue: 0,0:21:14.33,0:21:19.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,repealed. This has led a lot of people to\Nbe concerned because the people who did
Dialogue: 0,0:21:19.24,0:21:23.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,apply for the program, have given that\Ninformation to the government, to the
Dialogue: 0,0:21:23.13,0:21:27.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Immigration services in particular. And at\Nthis point in time, we have no assurances
Dialogue: 0,0:21:27.89,0:21:32.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that that information won't be used in\Nimmigration cases. At the moment, there's
Dialogue: 0,0:21:32.93,0:21:38.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just a sort of FAQ page that says, we\Ndon't use this information now but we
Dialogue: 0,0:21:38.69,0:21:47.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,reserve the right to change that at any\Ntime without telling anyone. People are
Dialogue: 0,0:21:47.39,0:21:51.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,also really feeling the changes that are\Nhappening in the last couple of months.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:51.64,0:21:57.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, it's been too many months, the last\Nyear and a half. They're feeling the
Dialogue: 0,0:21:57.54,0:22:02.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,pressure in their communities for\Nimmigration services being, or immigration
Dialogue: 0,0:22:02.69,0:22:09.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,enforcement being more present and less\Npredictable. Of one person described
Dialogue: 0,0:22:09.68,0:22:13.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,feeling like, instead of coming to take a\Nparticular person, they're just coming and
Dialogue: 0,0:22:13.40,0:22:19.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,looking for anyone who might be\Nundocumented. Many people that we spoke
Dialogue: 0,0:22:19.02,0:22:24.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to, had negative experiences with ICE.\NIncluding,... if it weren't,... if they
Dialogue: 0,0:22:24.27,0:22:27.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,hadn't had to experience themselves, lots\Nof people had friends and family who had
Dialogue: 0,0:22:27.56,0:22:32.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,negative experiences. And they're feeling\Nthis increase in presence of enforcement
Dialogue: 0,0:22:32.67,0:22:38.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in their communities. And this is leading\Nthem to make significant changes to the
Dialogue: 0,0:22:38.07,0:22:43.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,way that they're living their lives. For\Nexample, one person we spoke to talked
Dialogue: 0,0:22:43.08,0:22:47.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about how they won't leave their child at\Nhome alone anymore because they're worried
Dialogue: 0,0:22:47.08,0:22:51.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that, while they're out, their child; if\Nthey're picked up while they're out, and
Dialogue: 0,0:22:51.56,0:22:56.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the child's at home alone, they might be\Nleft there. Or ICE might even show up at
Dialogue: 0,0:22:56.22,0:22:58.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the house while the child's there alone.\NThey don't want either of those things to
Dialogue: 0,0:22:58.96,0:23:07.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,happen. So people are changing a lot of\Nthe ways that they live day to day. And
Dialogue: 0,0:23:07.03,0:23:12.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this is a very present concern, in the way\Nthat they talk about their daily lives. So
Dialogue: 0,0:23:12.69,0:23:15.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we were wondering if this is true when\Nthey think about the way that they use
Dialogue: 0,0:23:15.59,0:23:22.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,technology and what they're doing online.\NFirst, let me just give you an overview of
Dialogue: 0,0:23:22.48,0:23:27.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what sort of technologies they primarily\Nuse. This community is really mobile
Dialogue: 0,0:23:27.27,0:23:31.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,heavy. Some people had computers in the\Nhome. A lot of people had access to
Dialogue: 0,0:23:31.89,0:23:35.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,computers through local libraries and\Nthings. But everyone had a smartphone and
Dialogue: 0,0:23:35.38,0:23:40.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they were very dependent on it. Some\Npeople used email but when they spoke
Dialogue: 0,0:23:40.46,0:23:47.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about email, it was mostly to do with\Ncommunicating with their kids schools or
Dialogue: 0,0:23:47.59,0:23:51.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,doctor's appointments. It wasn't really a\Nsocial thing. So the majority of what we
Dialogue: 0,0:23:51.35,0:23:57.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,spoke to people about, were social media\Ntools. In particular, all but one of our
Dialogue: 0,0:23:57.08,0:24:03.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,participants were active users of\NFacebook. Most people were using WhatsApp
Dialogue: 0,0:24:03.43,0:24:09.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and Facebook Messenger, as well. These are\Nthe three primary tools that people had
Dialogue: 0,0:24:09.52,0:24:16.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the most to say about. There were some\Nother tools that they were on: Instagram,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:16.12,0:24:23.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Twitter, and Snapchat. But really, the\Noverarching, sort of a sense that people
Dialogue: 0,0:24:23.07,0:24:26.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,had about these tools is that it's\Nbringing significant benefits to their
Dialogue: 0,0:24:26.29,0:24:31.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,daily lives. Especially, when you think\Nabout this community being separated
Dialogue: 0,0:24:31.20,0:24:36.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,permanently from a lot of their friends\Nand family back home, or their former
Dialogue: 0,0:24:36.61,0:24:42.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,home, their origin country. What they had\Nto do before, maybe sending photos in the
Dialogue: 0,0:24:42.50,0:24:46.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,mail or through post cards, buying\Ninternational calling cards, being able to
Dialogue: 0,0:24:46.61,0:24:50.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,call people with video chat now is a\Nsignificant improvement to their ability
Dialogue: 0,0:24:50.78,0:24:56.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to keep in touch with people back in\NMexico or in wherever their... the origin
Dialogue: 0,0:24:56.45,0:25:02.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,country is. People also talked about, how\Nit's improving their lives in other ways.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:02.99,0:25:06.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For example, being able to organize their\Nown work schedules, and have more control
Dialogue: 0,0:25:06.75,0:25:12.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,over the way that they're employed. The\Nbenefits go on and on, and it's a lot of
Dialogue: 0,0:25:12.18,0:25:15.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the same things that we've experienced\Nover the last decade, and the way that our
Dialogue: 0,0:25:15.43,0:25:21.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,lives have changed for the better. Because\Nwe're able to use these technologies. When
Dialogue: 0,0:25:21.44,0:25:26.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we ask people about risk, the things that\Nreally pop into their heads first, are
Dialogue: 0,0:25:26.16,0:25:32.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,hackers. They're really concerned about\Nfraud and identity theft. And they think a
Dialogue: 0,0:25:32.58,0:25:37.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,lot about their children contacting\Nstrangers on the internet, or accessing
Dialogue: 0,0:25:37.70,0:25:47.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,inappropriate content. But that's not to\Nsay that concerns related to their status,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:47.68,0:25:57.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,their illegal status were absent. They're\Njust much less certain. You know, it's
Dialogue: 0,0:25:57.62,0:26:03.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,easy to think about the consequences of\Nidentity theft. That's sort of concrete.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:03.54,0:26:12.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But a lot of these status related concerns\Nwere less concrete. People talked about
Dialogue: 0,0:26:12.38,0:26:17.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,harassment as well, being something that's\Nincreasing in the real world, as well as
Dialogue: 0,0:26:17.40,0:26:28.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,online. In particular participating in\Ncommunities, or in conversations online
Dialogue: 0,0:26:28.05,0:26:33.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that may be expose their immigration\Nstatus. This harassment has moved online.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:33.64,0:26:38.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They're experiencing it in the real world,\Nas well, but they're hearing stories or
Dialogue: 0,0:26:38.62,0:26:42.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,having stories themselves about people\Nthreatening them with immigration
Dialogue: 0,0:26:42.04,0:26:54.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,enforcement. That's increasing over the\Nlast year or so. There are a couple of
Dialogue: 0,0:26:54.05,0:27:00.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ways that people manage these risks.\NPrimarily, what we found people really
Dialogue: 0,0:27:00.86,0:27:07.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,thought about, is their concrete steps to\Nmanaging their privacy online were fairly
Dialogue: 0,0:27:07.03,0:27:11.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,basic things like, making sure that they\Nonly accept friends and family on
Dialogue: 0,0:27:11.67,0:27:19.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Facebook. They might have set their\Nprofile to private. But they're really not
Dialogue: 0,0:27:19.58,0:27:24.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,fiddling with these more fine-grained\Nprivacy settings. They're not, you know,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:24.16,0:27:27.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sharing particular posts only to\Nparticular people, or using that. They
Dialogue: 0,0:27:27.94,0:27:30.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,were talking about, they didn't tell us\Nabout using these, like private groups or
Dialogue: 0,0:27:30.79,0:27:40.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,anything like that to sort of create\Nseparate spheres of friends and family.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:40.42,0:27:45.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And channel management, just in the sense\Nthat like, even though they think about
Dialogue: 0,0:27:45.18,0:27:49.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,curating this, like close network of\Nfriends and family, they're still really
Dialogue: 0,0:27:49.31,0:27:55.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,thoughtful about what they post in which\Nchannel. Whether like it's safe to put a
Dialogue: 0,0:27:55.28,0:27:59.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,photo, for example on their wall, or you\Nknow, in their timeline versus sending it
Dialogue: 0,0:27:59.16,0:28:07.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,directly to family. This person, for\Nexample, even after they post something
Dialogue: 0,0:28:07.21,0:28:13.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,publicly, publicly being, you know. within\Ntheir Facebook wall, they'll still go back
Dialogue: 0,0:28:13.71,0:28:16.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to a couple days later and just delete\Neverything because they're not totally
Dialogue: 0,0:28:16.79,0:28:27.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,confident that that's private. Another\Nreally interesting thing is that in all of
Dialogue: 0,0:28:27.82,0:28:32.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this, the conversations we had, no one\Nreally expressed the sense that they
Dialogue: 0,0:28:32.15,0:28:39.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,understood that they're really living on\NFacebook. The tools that they're using
Dialogue: 0,0:28:39.26,0:28:46.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like almost exclusively, are all owned by\Nthe same company. No one also express any
Dialogue: 0,0:28:46.68,0:28:51.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sort of sense that these companies are\Nentities in themselves that might have
Dialogue: 0,0:28:51.43,0:28:56.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,interest in access to their data. Much\Nless one that cooperates with law
Dialogue: 0,0:28:56.95,0:29:05.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,enforcement. That concern didn't appear in\Nany of our conversations. They tend to
Dialogue: 0,0:29:05.19,0:29:09.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,think about these platforms as being sort\Nof a medium to communicate with other
Dialogue: 0,0:29:09.79,0:29:17.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people. You know, the way that they use\Nit, is to talk to other individuals, or
Dialogue: 0,0:29:17.34,0:29:21.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,groups of individuals. But the platform\Ndoesn't seem to be like a repository for
Dialogue: 0,0:29:21.30,0:29:28.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,data. In fact, they are expressing\Nsignificant trust in Facebook, Facebook in
Dialogue: 0,0:29:28.41,0:29:32.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,particular. A lot of people were grateful\Nfor the changes that Facebook's made over
Dialogue: 0,0:29:32.51,0:29:40.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the last year or two, in terms of account\Nmanagement. So they're grateful that if
Dialogue: 0,0:29:40.29,0:29:44.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there's a suspicious login attempt,\Nthey'll be able to stop it. That's helped
Dialogue: 0,0:29:44.17,0:29:48.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a lot of people. And that sort of\Ngenerates trust in these platforms. And
Dialogue: 0,0:29:48.66,0:30:01.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the sense that Facebook really has their\Nback. In addition to sort of managing the
Dialogue: 0,0:30:01.37,0:30:06.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,way that they're sharing information, we\Ndid see some people choosing to abstain
Dialogue: 0,0:30:06.13,0:30:12.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from sharing. Especially, when it came to\Ntopics around immigration. Some people
Dialogue: 0,0:30:12.05,0:30:18.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,chose to not join, you know, public\NFacebook groups, or get information from
Dialogue: 0,0:30:18.32,0:30:22.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,certain places because they were afraid\Nthat by associating with these groups,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:22.04,0:30:32.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they might indicate something publicly\Nabout their status. And that's frustrating
Dialogue: 0,0:30:32.53,0:30:35.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for a lot of people who want to\Nparticipate in these conversations, and
Dialogue: 0,0:30:35.08,0:30:38.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,especially, because the discourse around\Nimmigration is so toxic in the United
Dialogue: 0,0:30:38.83,0:30:45.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,States. Some people express this feeling\Nthat they have to just sit there and take
Dialogue: 0,0:30:45.75,0:30:51.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this discourse happening around them\Nwithout participating, because they're
Dialogue: 0,0:30:51.01,0:30:57.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,worried about being targeted, or harassed,\Nor maybe even like having physical
Dialogue: 0,0:30:57.02,0:31:00.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,consequences: being followed, or having\Nimmigration sent to their house if someone
Dialogue: 0,0:31:00.53,0:31:09.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,were to find them. Some people expressed\Nthe opposite, though, which is
Dialogue: 0,0:31:09.13,0:31:16.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,encouraging, right? Some people felt that,\Neven though the risk is there, it's more
Dialogue: 0,0:31:16.24,0:31:20.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,important for them to share their thoughts\Nthan it is for them to be tiptoeing around
Dialogue: 0,0:31:20.40,0:31:27.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,immigration enforcement. This is also\Nreally interesting because this sort of
Dialogue: 0,0:31:27.93,0:31:34.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,exposes sometimes family tensions about\Nthese topics. This is a really, it's a
Dialogue: 0,0:31:34.29,0:31:37.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,mixed status community, meaning that\Nsometimes parents will be undocumented and
Dialogue: 0,0:31:37.72,0:31:42.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,children will be US citizens. Or lots of\Npeople have friends and family who have a
Dialogue: 0,0:31:42.69,0:31:47.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,different legal status than they do. So\Nrisk is really distributed. You know, it's
Dialogue: 0,0:31:47.65,0:31:52.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not just individual, it's within families\Nand within communities. And there can be a
Dialogue: 0,0:31:52.41,0:31:57.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,lot of tension between, you know, children\Nand parents, or friends, you know,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:57.05,0:32:01.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,siblings, about how they share information\Non these platforms. Some people are much
Dialogue: 0,0:32:01.21,0:32:09.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,more conservative with what they share.\NAnd this quote also reveals something else
Dialogue: 0,0:32:09.89,0:32:17.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,kind of interesting. When we talk to\Npeople about concerns about immigration,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:17.34,0:32:21.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's very rarely that they talk about\Nwhether immigration will be able to
Dialogue: 0,0:32:21.68,0:32:27.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,investigate them, as much as it is about\Nwhen, which is this final point that
Dialogue: 0,0:32:27.98,0:32:33.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there's really this sense of resignation\Nin the community about what information
Dialogue: 0,0:32:33.81,0:32:43.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,immigration enforcement has about them.\NLots of people feel like, it doesn't
Dialogue: 0,0:32:43.92,0:32:50.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,really matter what they do. Immigration\Ncan know where they are and what they're
Dialogue: 0,0:32:50.60,0:32:55.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,doing. They can find them if they just\Ndecide to. It's just a matter of whether
Dialogue: 0,0:32:55.23,0:32:59.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,immigration enforcement is going to choose\Nto come after them, rather than whether
Dialogue: 0,0:32:59.27,0:33:08.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they can. This is also true with the way\Nthat they think about technology. They
Dialogue: 0,0:33:08.67,0:33:15.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have a sense that there's really no\Nprivacy. If immigration decided to, they
Dialogue: 0,0:33:15.64,0:33:20.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would be able to see the messages on\NFacebook, they could see what was
Dialogue: 0,0:33:20.39,0:33:25.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,physically on their phones, that they have\Nthis sort of all-powerful, you know,
Dialogue: 0,0:33:25.56,0:33:31.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,toolkit to access their digital\Ninformation. And honestly, this story in
Dialogue: 0,0:33:31.54,0:33:39.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,particular, this sense of surveillance\Ncomes from experience often. This person
Dialogue: 0,0:33:39.18,0:33:44.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,had a really negative experience with ICE,\Nyou know, coming and talking to her
Dialogue: 0,0:33:44.19,0:33:49.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,family. And ICE knowing things that they\Nhadn't told anyone. Somehow ICE had known
Dialogue: 0,0:33:49.31,0:33:53.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,things that they were keeping very\Nprivate. And so there's this assumption
Dialogue: 0,0:33:53.11,0:33:56.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that, well, it's happened to me before,\NI've seen it happen to my friends, they
Dialogue: 0,0:33:56.57,0:34:08.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,probably could know anything they want to.\NBut it's not all negative, it's not all
Dialogue: 0,0:34:08.14,0:34:14.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,resignation. Another thing that we saw,\Nmany people, not everyone, but maybe half
Dialogue: 0,0:34:14.00,0:34:16.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the people we spoke to, had this really\Nstrong sense that there was this
Dialogue: 0,0:34:16.39,0:34:21.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,responsibility to share things in the\Ncommunity to help each other. There's this
Dialogue: 0,0:34:21.23,0:34:29.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,growing sense of community identity. And\Nthis might mean sharing information about
Dialogue: 0,0:34:29.29,0:34:34.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,resources for the immigrant community or\Nsharing information about workshops, or
Dialogue: 0,0:34:34.65,0:34:41.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,events, vigils, but also information about\Nimmigration enforcement. If ICE is in a
Dialogue: 0,0:34:41.44,0:34:45.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,particular community, they might tell\Ntheir friends and family, avoid this area
Dialogue: 0,0:34:45.80,0:34:50.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,until further notice. They're helping each\Nother, they're sending information. So, it
Dialogue: 0,0:34:50.44,0:34:54.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,can't be total resignation. There's still\Nthis sort of beam of hope that they're
Dialogue: 0,0:34:54.21,0:34:57.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,helping each other. And they must have\Nhope that they can do something because
Dialogue: 0,0:34:57.60,0:35:03.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they are. And this has been something that\Nhas become faster and easier with
Dialogue: 0,0:35:03.26,0:35:08.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,technology, too, right? It's much easier\Nto send a message than it is to call, or
Dialogue: 0,0:35:08.68,0:35:17.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to spread information before we had, you\Nknow, smartphones. But all of this really
Dialogue: 0,0:35:17.27,0:35:20.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,leads to the question: Considering how\Nmuch they inconvenience themselves in
Dialogue: 0,0:35:20.65,0:35:25.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,their daily lives offline, why are they\Ndoing comparatively little online to
Dialogue: 0,0:35:25.20,0:35:32.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,change their practices, or to reduce their\Nvisibility? I don't think it's enough
Dialogue: 0,0:35:32.70,0:35:38.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that, although lots of people expressed\Nthis sense that they're like relatively
Dialogue: 0,0:35:38.51,0:35:46.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,low-tech literate. That in and of itself\Nisn't really enough of an explanation,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:46.37,0:35:50.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,right? There are so many different factors\Ninto the way that they're making these
Dialogue: 0,0:35:50.49,0:35:55.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,decisions, and they're thinking carefully\Nabout the decisions they do make. So we
Dialogue: 0,0:35:55.60,0:36:00.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have some thoughts on this. It really\Ncan't be understated how much of a benefit
Dialogue: 0,0:36:00.66,0:36:05.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,technology is to this community. It's\Nmaking a significant difference in the way
Dialogue: 0,0:36:05.54,0:36:14.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that they live their lives. So the choice\Nto abstain is not trivial. The risk that
Dialogue: 0,0:36:14.87,0:36:19.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they're facing by using like Facebook, by\Nputting phone numbers on Facebook, or
Dialogue: 0,0:36:19.08,0:36:23.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sharing photos of their family and\Nfriends, and like, building these online
Dialogue: 0,0:36:23.76,0:36:29.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,networks, is, really the risk involved in\Nthat is uncertain, right? At this point we
Dialogue: 0,0:36:29.65,0:36:34.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have really sparse data about direct\Nconnections between the use of technology,
Dialogue: 0,0:36:34.58,0:36:39.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or the use of social media and immigration\Nenforcement, and consequences. Maybe that
Dialogue: 0,0:36:39.67,0:36:43.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,will change, but at this point it's\Nunclear which changes might be actually
Dialogue: 0,0:36:43.64,0:36:48.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,beneficial, right? Because there's not a\Ndirect connection between using this tool,
Dialogue: 0,0:36:48.86,0:36:55.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,putting this information online, and\Nimmigration enforcement showing up.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:55.50,0:37:00.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's also the significant trust in the\Nplatforms that they're using and their
Dialogue: 0,0:37:00.77,0:37:08.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,peers are using as well and there just\Ntends to be less critical thought about
Dialogue: 0,0:37:08.08,0:37:13.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the safety of using platforms when there's\Nalready this component of trust. Facebook
Dialogue: 0,0:37:13.62,0:37:18.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has done a lot for account security for\Nexample over the last couple of years and
Dialogue: 0,0:37:18.83,0:37:25.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has built trust in this community. And as\Nwell as having you know all of your
Dialogue: 0,0:37:25.47,0:37:30.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,community on a tool when they're all there\Ntogether there's like less of a, less
Dialogue: 0,0:37:30.47,0:37:36.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,critical thought about whether they're\Nit's safe to be there. And there is this
Dialogue: 0,0:37:36.93,0:37:41.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,component of resignation when we've sort\Nof pushed people to think really
Dialogue: 0,0:37:41.73,0:37:46.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,explicitly about the risk with immigration\Nenforcement, being in sharing information
Dialogue: 0,0:37:46.90,0:37:53.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on social media using technology there was\Nthe sense that if they wanted to - they
Dialogue: 0,0:37:53.84,0:37:57.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,could have the information, I mean, they\Nalready have it in a lot of ways when
Dialogue: 0,0:37:57.13,0:38:04.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they're filing taxes or just you know it's\Naccessible to authorities is the general
Dialogue: 0,0:38:04.16,0:38:08.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sense of regardless of what they do\Nonline. So this kind of in combination
Dialogue: 0,0:38:08.97,0:38:13.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the uncertain risk it makes it really\Nhard to make concrete steps towards
Dialogue: 0,0:38:13.85,0:38:25.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,changes that might be helpful. So finally,\NI just wanted to share a couple of things
Dialogue: 0,0:38:25.06,0:38:34.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that I learned especially as a digital\Nsecurity trainer and doing this study.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:34.39,0:38:41.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Most importantly everyone that we spoke to\Nwas really excited to learn. That's just
Dialogue: 0,0:38:41.97,0:38:47.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,general like tech literacy but also\Nsecurity and privacy. People really care
Dialogue: 0,0:38:47.10,0:38:52.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they're excited. And everyone\Nexpressed gratitude that we were talking
Dialogue: 0,0:38:52.31,0:39:00.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to them about this topic. They care a lot.\NBut so what was difficult for me having a
Dialogue: 0,0:39:00.34,0:39:06.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,background in trainings was still being\Nsurprised by things that in these
Dialogue: 0,0:39:06.57,0:39:12.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,conversations that thinking I knew what\Nthey wanted or what they needed and that
Dialogue: 0,0:39:12.67,0:39:17.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not being the case. So one thing I would\Nsay is you know don't assume that you know
Dialogue: 0,0:39:17.40,0:39:22.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what's best for them or even what they\Nwant or need. Go and talk to people
Dialogue: 0,0:39:22.77,0:39:27.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they're really you'll learn a lot from\Ntalking to people about what they think
Dialogue: 0,0:39:27.02,0:39:32.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,their risk is versus what they're doing.\NFor example something that I was surprised
Dialogue: 0,0:39:32.87,0:39:37.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to learn is that they're really not using\Nonline resources when they have concerns
Dialogue: 0,0:39:37.18,0:39:42.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about online privacy. They're talking to\Ntheir kids and they're talking to their
Dialogue: 0,0:39:42.24,0:39:47.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,neighbors and their friends. So for this\Ncommunity in particular it would be really
Dialogue: 0,0:39:47.57,0:39:53.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,much more effective to go into an in-\Nperson training. A training in Spanish in
Dialogue: 0,0:39:53.17,0:39:59.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this case. In the language that they're\Nnaturally speaking and have like in-person
Dialogue: 0,0:39:59.07,0:40:05.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,resources that will get you much further\Nthan you know compiling lists of ideas or
Dialogue: 0,0:40:05.18,0:40:14.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,tools or strategies, that'll probably\Nnever be accessed. And as a vehicle to do
Dialogue: 0,0:40:14.66,0:40:18.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this, when we had a really positive\Nexperience working with support
Dialogue: 0,0:40:18.09,0:40:23.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,organizations, on the front end that\Nallowed us to build trust with the
Dialogue: 0,0:40:23.72,0:40:28.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,community, so by working with people who\Nthey already trusted and who already knew
Dialogue: 0,0:40:28.05,0:40:33.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,them well I really think we were able to\Ntalk to people much more openly and much...
Dialogue: 0,0:40:33.14,0:40:37.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with much more trust than they would have\Notherwise. Whether they would have spoken
Dialogue: 0,0:40:37.20,0:40:43.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to us at all is a question. They also were\Na great resource for us as we were
Dialogue: 0,0:40:43.37,0:40:50.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,developing interview materials and also\Nlike training materials afterwards when we
Dialogue: 0,0:40:50.29,0:41:00.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,went back to communities and conducted\Ndigital trainings. They helped us develop,
Dialogue: 0,0:41:00.02,0:41:05.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you know, culturally sensitive language\Nand we were able to just ask, you know, is
Dialogue: 0,0:41:05.70,0:41:10.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this location is this style of\Npresentation, is this length, is this time
Dialogue: 0,0:41:10.37,0:41:14.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what should we do you know they were a\Nresource to us to make sure that the
Dialogue: 0,0:41:14.29,0:41:16.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,things that we were developing were most\Naccessible to the people that we're
Dialogue: 0,0:41:16.90,0:41:25.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,talking to. And, they also themselves from\Nwhat I've seen have a lot of questions
Dialogue: 0,0:41:25.26,0:41:30.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about the way that they're using\Ntechnology. That's a great place to go and
Dialogue: 0,0:41:30.18,0:41:35.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,talk to people about, you know,\Norganizational practices. And you might
Dialogue: 0,0:41:35.95,0:41:38.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,find that it's a lot easier to get people\Nto change their practices if they're in
Dialogue: 0,0:41:38.70,0:41:42.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sort of an organizational setting where\Nthere's peer pressure or maybe some
Dialogue: 0,0:41:42.58,0:41:48.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,hierarchy of people who are really\Nencouraging them to use more secure tools
Dialogue: 0,0:41:48.95,0:41:53.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or to think carefully about data\Nthey're collecting about people that they
Dialogue: 0,0:41:53.67,0:41:59.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,contact. So working with these\Norganizations also might be an opportunity
Dialogue: 0,0:41:59.49,0:42:05.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to do trainings with activists and with\Nlawyers and with other people who are
Dialogue: 0,0:42:05.44,0:42:18.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,working alongside this community. Finally,\Nwhich is always a difficult thing to hear
Dialogue: 0,0:42:18.41,0:42:24.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as a trainer, the people we spoke to\Nprobably aren't going to be adopting new
Dialogue: 0,0:42:24.23,0:42:32.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,tools for one it might not be safe, it's\Nhard to make that calculus right, but a
Dialogue: 0,0:42:32.13,0:42:38.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,tool that's specifically designed for a\Ncommunity at risk or in order to do a
Dialogue: 0,0:42:38.39,0:42:42.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,particular function that would be of\Ninterest to, for example, the undocumented
Dialogue: 0,0:42:42.57,0:42:45.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,community or some other vulnerable\Ncommunity might increase visibility
Dialogue: 0,0:42:45.80,0:42:50.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,depending on the threat model. If they're\Nfound with a particular app or if the app
Dialogue: 0,0:42:50.23,0:42:57.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is like exposing number of users or\Nlocation of users, for example. And it's
Dialogue: 0,0:42:57.67,0:43:00.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not to say that we should stop developing\Nnew tools we should always think about
Dialogue: 0,0:43:00.79,0:43:06.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ways to make better and safer and more\Nprivate resources. But it's worth thinking
Dialogue: 0,0:43:06.84,0:43:10.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,especially if you're going to be working\Nwith communities or building resources for
Dialogue: 0,0:43:10.78,0:43:15.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,communities that we should think also\Nabout how to make sure that they're using
Dialogue: 0,0:43:15.56,0:43:21.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the tools they are already used more\Neffectively and more safely. That might
Dialogue: 0,0:43:21.04,0:43:24.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,mean sitting down with someone for a while\Nand going to their privacy settings on
Dialogue: 0,0:43:24.84,0:43:30.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Facebook or, you know, making sure that\Ntheir settings on Whatsapp, make don't
Dialogue: 0,0:43:30.20,0:43:38.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,back up data to the cloud or expose phone\Nnumbers to people they don't know. But
Dialogue: 0,0:43:38.45,0:43:48.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there's a lot to do in both of these\Ndirections. And especially if you're going
Dialogue: 0,0:43:48.75,0:43:53.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to be moving into working with these\Ncommunities, this is something to keep in
Dialogue: 0,0:43:53.96,0:44:04.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,mind, that I thought was especially\Npoignant. For that I can take questions.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:04.92,0:44:16.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}applause{\i0}\NHerald angel (H): So we have four
Dialogue: 0,0:44:16.89,0:44:21.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,microphones in this room. I see one is\Nalready occupied with somebody. May I
Dialogue: 0,0:44:21.93,0:44:25.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,remind you that a question is typically\None to two sentence and ends with a
Dialogue: 0,0:44:25.29,0:44:30.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,question mark. And with that I\Nwill take microphone 4.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:30.64,0:44:36.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mic4: Hi, thanks! You mentioned that these\Ncommunities are reluctant to adopt new
Dialogue: 0,0:44:36.80,0:44:41.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,tools. Were there any exceptions to that\Nor were there any like attributes of new
Dialogue: 0,0:44:41.50,0:44:45.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,tools that you think they would be more\Nlikely to adopt?
Dialogue: 0,0:44:45.83,0:44:52.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Allison: Yeah that's a good question! I\NI've been thinking about this. I would say
Dialogue: 0,0:44:52.56,0:44:57.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that this is absolutely true what I said\Nabout reluctance to adopt new tools when
Dialogue: 0,0:44:57.20,0:45:00.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's when we're talking about social\Nmedia. So it's difficult to like move
Dialogue: 0,0:45:00.66,0:45:05.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people to Signal for example from Whatsapp\Nor Facebook Messenger because the people
Dialogue: 0,0:45:05.33,0:45:08.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they talk to are already on these tools\Nand it's not just moving one person but
Dialogue: 0,0:45:08.89,0:45:16.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like a community. If we start to think\Nabout tools that might be special-purpose
Dialogue: 0,0:45:16.68,0:45:21.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we didn't talk to anyone who mentioned\Nthis app but I know in the past there have
Dialogue: 0,0:45:21.18,0:45:26.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,been discussions about ways being used\Nit's like a crowd-sourced map system being
Dialogue: 0,0:45:26.41,0:45:33.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,used to like track law enforcement. Like I\Nsaid we didn't talk to anyone who used
Dialogue: 0,0:45:33.68,0:45:40.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that app but possibly if there's like a\Nspecific utility in it there could be some
Dialogue: 0,0:45:40.02,0:45:46.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,critical mass of people who spread the\Nword in a smaller community. Yeah it's
Dialogue: 0,0:45:46.63,0:45:50.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,something to think about. I don't think\Nit's impossible but I would say it would
Dialogue: 0,0:45:50.44,0:45:55.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,be challenging.\NH: I assume that the baby doesn't want to
Dialogue: 0,0:45:55.88,0:46:00.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,speak on microphone 1 so I'm gonna go to a\Nmicrophone 3.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:00.85,0:46:03.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mic3: I have two questions is that okay?\NAllison: Yeah.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:03.41,0:46:07.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mic3: Thank you. The first one is kind of\Na nitty-gritty academic question and that
Dialogue: 0,0:46:07.78,0:46:12.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is: can you tell us anything about your\NIRB approval process, what you're doing to
Dialogue: 0,0:46:12.10,0:46:16.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,protect subjects data? Because this is\Nvery sensitive and I'm curious how you've
Dialogue: 0,0:46:16.36,0:46:19.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,approached that.\NAllison: Yeah absolutely. So we didn't
Dialogue: 0,0:46:19.36,0:46:28.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have IRB approval before we spoke to\Nanyone. We actually got an exemption for
Dialogue: 0,0:46:28.31,0:46:32.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,collecting data about participants. So we\Ncompensated for each interview that we
Dialogue: 0,0:46:32.94,0:46:42.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,did, we gave participants $20. We were not\Nrequired to collect any proof of payment
Dialogue: 0,0:46:42.17,0:46:48.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we recorded the interviews and encrypted\Nthem locally. They were translated by
Dialogue: 0,0:46:48.60,0:46:55.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people in our research group and then\Ntranscribed with all identifying location
Dialogue: 0,0:46:55.33,0:47:01.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and name data redacted. And, that those\Nwere all stored encrypted on our personal
Dialogue: 0,0:47:01.95,0:47:07.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,drives and then in a University Drive. All\Nthe data has been deleted now all of the
Dialogue: 0,0:47:07.66,0:47:12.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,original data as well.\NMic3: Awesome! Thanks. The other one is a
Dialogue: 0,0:47:12.54,0:47:17.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,big picture scatterbrain question: which\Nis about how this is a technological
Dialogue: 0,0:47:17.05,0:47:23.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,solution to a political problem. Do you\Nfeel that directing or helping immigrants
Dialogue: 0,0:47:23.83,0:47:29.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,understand how to protect themselves\Ntechnologically, is the answer or
Dialogue: 0,0:47:29.40,0:47:34.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,necessarily part of the answer or do you\Nfeel like maybe eventually our community
Dialogue: 0,0:47:34.09,0:47:37.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,needs to be helping people exit places\Nlike the U.S. that are increasingly
Dialogue: 0,0:47:37.52,0:47:43.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,hostile to immigrants?\NAllison: That's a good question. I don't
Dialogue: 0,0:47:43.38,0:47:49.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,think that helping people be more safe\Nonline is really a solution. I mean the
Dialogue: 0,0:47:49.63,0:47:55.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,solutions gonna be in policy and in law. I\Nthink this is a utility really in the
Dialogue: 0,0:47:55.06,0:47:58.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,short term is like making sure people feel\Nsafe and like have more control over
Dialogue: 0,0:47:58.66,0:48:03.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,disclosure to the extent that they can.\NBut I don't think that's going to,... I
Dialogue: 0,0:48:03.44,0:48:09.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,don't think that's a winning, you know,\Nsingle pronged battle. As for leaving the
Dialogue: 0,0:48:09.07,0:48:14.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,United States that's kind of a funny\Nquestion considering how much people have
Dialogue: 0,0:48:14.08,0:48:17.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sacrificed to come to the U.S. and\Nespecially having integrated into
Dialogue: 0,0:48:17.85,0:48:23.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,communities already. A lot of the people I\Nspoke about today were long-term residents
Dialogue: 0,0:48:23.00,0:48:26.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean everyone was a long-term resident.\NSo they've sort of built their lives in
Dialogue: 0,0:48:26.19,0:48:29.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the U.S. But there has been a significant\Ndecrease in the number of people
Dialogue: 0,0:48:29.60,0:48:35.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,immigrating to the U.S. without\Nauthorization that's thanks to Obama era
Dialogue: 0,0:48:35.26,0:48:41.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,policies of like, you know, return\Nimmediately at the border so whether
Dialogue: 0,0:48:41.11,0:48:44.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people are now moving to other countries\Nis a good question and whether we should
Dialogue: 0,0:48:44.56,0:48:48.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,encourage that is... I don't know,\Ninteresting.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:48.48,0:48:54.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mic3: Thank you\NH: Microphone 2.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:54.54,0:49:02.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mic2: Hi, so I have a questions: Are there\Nany initiatives to help the people in a
Dialogue: 0,0:49:02.10,0:49:11.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,way that so,.. The fact that they don't...\Nthey feel that they are less risk online
Dialogue: 0,0:49:11.91,0:49:16.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they don't perceive the risk as much\Nand do you feel that helping them
Dialogue: 0,0:49:16.65,0:49:21.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,understanding those risk and maybe trying\Nto be more secure online will actually
Dialogue: 0,0:49:21.27,0:49:27.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,help them or is there a resignation\Ntowards the government accurate?
Dialogue: 0,0:49:27.16,0:49:41.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Allison: If you're thinking about specific\Npeople I think,... Maybe when individual's
Dialogue: 0,0:49:41.97,0:49:47.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,information is going to be accessible in\Nthe long run if immigration enforcement
Dialogue: 0,0:49:47.47,0:49:51.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,really chooses to maybe that sense of\Nresignation to some extent is accurate but
Dialogue: 0,0:49:51.94,0:49:58.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,lots of people aren't necessarily on the\Nradar. And I think what's most beneficial
Dialogue: 0,0:49:58.22,0:50:03.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about helping people understand how to use\Ntechnology more effectively and like
Dialogue: 0,0:50:03.59,0:50:08.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's really just increasing confidence.\NIt's this uncertainty and like choosing to
Dialogue: 0,0:50:08.96,0:50:11.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,abstain from participating in\Nconversations because they just don't
Dialogue: 0,0:50:11.56,0:50:15.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,trust that they can be secure, like\Nprivate enough. You know or that their
Dialogue: 0,0:50:15.21,0:50:18.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,personal information, their home addresses\Nthat they they're still at risk of this
Dialogue: 0,0:50:18.86,0:50:23.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,harassment like that's... That lack of\Nconfidence and privacy is really what I
Dialogue: 0,0:50:23.66,0:50:40.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,think can be helped and... Sorry I had\Nanother point. Yeah, but if it's worthwhile
Dialogue: 0,0:50:40.21,0:50:44.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you know thinking about how you can\Ncontribute to helping. I mean even
Dialogue: 0,0:50:44.23,0:50:50.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,outside of like privacy work, a lot of\Npeople really just are eager to learn more
Dialogue: 0,0:50:50.98,0:50:58.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about how to use technology like to help\Ntheir lives. Right, so the other thing I
Dialogue: 0,0:50:58.88,0:51:04.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was going to say was, we also put\Nsignificant thought into whether or not,
Dialogue: 0,0:51:04.15,0:51:06.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you know, how to have these conversations\Nwith people and like how to ask questions
Dialogue: 0,0:51:06.88,0:51:12.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about, you know, the risks online without\Nreally freaking them out. Because we
Dialogue: 0,0:51:12.96,0:51:15.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,didn't really have solutions. It's not\Nlike at the end of an interview we could
Dialogue: 0,0:51:15.93,0:51:20.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,say like well we have a solution for you\Njust install this app and you'll be safe.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:20.56,0:51:25.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, it's sort of this balance between\Nmaking sure that people still, you know,
Dialogue: 0,0:51:25.39,0:51:30.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,use tools in the way that's so helpful for\Ntheir lives. Right like we don't want them
Dialogue: 0,0:51:30.60,0:51:33.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to stop using Facebook if it means that\Nthey stop talking to their parents back in
Dialogue: 0,0:51:33.92,0:51:37.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mexico. We don't want them to stop using\Nemail if it means that they can't talk to
Dialogue: 0,0:51:37.64,0:51:42.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,their kid's teachers anymore. So it's this\Nbalance between like being aware of the
Dialogue: 0,0:51:42.73,0:51:45.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,risk and being confident that you're doing\Nas much as you can while not choosing to
Dialogue: 0,0:51:45.90,0:51:50.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,abstain.\NH: So I'm hiding here in the corner
Dialogue: 0,0:51:50.06,0:51:53.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because I'm trying to see whether\Nsomebody's at number four? There's
Dialogue: 0,0:51:53.63,0:51:58.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,somebody there yes. So Mic4 please.\NMic4: Thanks. Hi, so I was wondering since
Dialogue: 0,0:51:58.89,0:52:04.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Facebook is the most popular tool that\Nthey use and they probably won't change
Dialogue: 0,0:52:04.81,0:52:10.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it, did you find anything that the people\Nat Facebook could do to help undocumented
Dialogue: 0,0:52:10.76,0:52:15.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,immigrants more?\NAllison: Yeah, I think the things that
Dialogue: 0,0:52:15.02,0:52:18.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Facebook can think about are really\Ngeneralizable to a lot of vulnerable
Dialogue: 0,0:52:18.57,0:52:25.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,communities. People, there were a few\Nthings in particular that some people are
Dialogue: 0,0:52:25.13,0:52:31.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,really uncomfortable with, for example,\NWhatsapp if you're added to like a group
Dialogue: 0,0:52:31.18,0:52:35.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of people your phone number is exposed to\Neveryone else in the group, without your
Dialogue: 0,0:52:35.62,0:52:39.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,consent and that might be the case with\Nlike group SMS and things. But like, the
Dialogue: 0,0:52:39.73,0:52:44.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,fact that Whatsup even uses a phone number\Nis kind of something that we should
Dialogue: 0,0:52:44.25,0:52:50.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,migrate out of, right. Facebook collecting\Nphone numbers and collecting, you know,
Dialogue: 0,0:52:50.65,0:52:59.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,location data regardless of how easy it is\Nto opt in and out. And so, this is
Dialogue: 0,0:52:59.33,0:53:05.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,primarily an academic work that's going to\Nappear at the HCI, a human-computer
Dialogue: 0,0:53:05.68,0:53:11.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,interaction conference, and we talk a lot\Nin the paper about what these bigger
Dialogue: 0,0:53:11.14,0:53:18.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,services can do. And really like we as a\Ncommunity can advocate for Facebook
Dialogue: 0,0:53:18.99,0:53:23.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,resisting cooperating with law enforcement\Nright. I mean it shouldn't really matter
Dialogue: 0,0:53:23.24,0:53:28.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to Facebook where you live or or how you\Ngot there. They're a social media platform
Dialogue: 0,0:53:28.38,0:53:33.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they shouldn't be, you know, helping\Nimmigration move people around physical
Dialogue: 0,0:53:33.75,0:53:42.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,borders. They should be totally you know\Nborder agnostic. So advocating for that
Dialogue: 0,0:53:42.06,0:53:49.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,kind of attitude shift would be helpful\NH: Microphone 2
Dialogue: 0,0:53:49.79,0:53:54.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mic2: So thank you for the very\Ninteresting talk. And I have a question
Dialogue: 0,0:53:54.29,0:54:00.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that sort of picks up on the previous one.\NAnd because it's, you talk about it
Dialogue: 0,0:54:00.41,0:54:06.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Facebook has become such an important sort\Nof a political actor in this arena. I'm
Dialogue: 0,0:54:06.23,0:54:10.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,wondering if you've been following up on\Nthat as a survey research problem like
Dialogue: 0,0:54:10.44,0:54:15.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what's, what is there, what is it that\Nthey are doing and is this something
Dialogue: 0,0:54:15.22,0:54:23.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's happening unwittingly or is there\Nsomething about the general strategy of
Dialogue: 0,0:54:23.19,0:54:29.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Facebook that surf helps create this kind\Nof trust. And I'm also wondering, going,
Dialogue: 0,0:54:29.38,0:54:35.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,taking that question further, sorry it's\Nmore than a sentence that,
Dialogue: 0,0:54:35.87,0:54:40.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if you've been thinking about is if you\Nsee anything sort of suddenly eroding that
Dialogue: 0,0:54:40.22,0:54:45.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,trust in the future, and I'm specifically\Nthinking about this now, this question
Dialogue: 0,0:54:45.03,0:54:52.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about how it was possible for all this\NRussian money to go into Facebook
Dialogue: 0,0:54:52.88,0:54:59.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,advertisements and that served, that's\Nkind of point in the direction of pressure
Dialogue: 0,0:54:59.91,0:55:08.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for Facebook to be less serve general in\Ntheir trust and picking up on certain, on
Dialogue: 0,0:55:08.35,0:55:15.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,specific political issues which could also\Nbe immigration and disclosing some
Dialogue: 0,0:55:15.65,0:55:21.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,information that they already have?\NA: Your question about whether there could
Dialogue: 0,0:55:21.34,0:55:26.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,be a shift in trust in the future if\Nsomething could trigger that. The example
Dialogue: 0,0:55:26.64,0:55:31.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in Detroit right where law enforcement was\Nable to get a phone number from Facebook
Dialogue: 0,0:55:31.03,0:55:36.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with a warrant and then track the person\Nwith this phone number. If there are more
Dialogue: 0,0:55:36.53,0:55:41.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and more cases of social media data being\Nused in immigration cases and there's
Dialogue: 0,0:55:41.78,0:55:48.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,evidence to think that that might happen.\NIt's possible that narrative might
Dialogue: 0,0:55:48.37,0:55:52.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,overtake this sense that people have right\Nnow that Facebook's looking out for them
Dialogue: 0,0:55:52.43,0:56:00.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by keeping their account, you know,\Nthere's that letting them control it. In
Dialogue: 0,0:56:00.75,0:56:08.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,terms of Facebook picking up immigration\Nas a sort of an activist or a political
Dialogue: 0,0:56:08.07,0:56:15.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,topic that they're interested in, I would\Nnow hold my breath on that one, but we'll
Dialogue: 0,0:56:15.20,0:56:19.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,see. Yeah.\NH: So we have time for exactly one more
Dialogue: 0,0:56:19.35,0:56:26.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,question and that is on Mic 1.\NMic1: Hi, did you collect any information
Dialogue: 0,0:56:26.16,0:56:32.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or study anything about how these people\Nwere using financial services and such
Dialogue: 0,0:56:32.26,0:56:36.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,things like online payments? Did they have\Nbank accounts, were they concerned about
Dialogue: 0,0:56:36.72,0:56:44.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,their financial privacy?\NA: Yeah, actually people, the concerns
Dialogue: 0,0:56:44.92,0:56:49.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they have with privacy and in terms of the\Nway that they were using like online
Dialogue: 0,0:56:49.05,0:56:53.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,banking because people were I mean using\Ncredit cards and online banking and paying
Dialogue: 0,0:56:53.54,0:56:59.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,rent, you know, or utilities online. They\Ndidn't talk about privacy much in that
Dialogue: 0,0:56:59.05,0:57:03.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,context except that they have this concern\Nabout their financial information being
Dialogue: 0,0:57:03.11,0:57:07.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,stolen by hackers. Right, like the concern\Nis for other people rather than the
Dialogue: 0,0:57:07.70,0:57:15.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,entities that are providing these\Nservices. And I think a lot of the concern
Dialogue: 0,0:57:15.93,0:57:19.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there is coming from the fact that they\Nhave a lot to lose and very few legal
Dialogue: 0,0:57:19.37,0:57:27.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,protections should something bad happened\Nto them. But, yeah, so just generally like
Dialogue: 0,0:57:27.35,0:57:32.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people were using online banking and had\Nbank accounts and were using these online
Dialogue: 0,0:57:32.69,0:57:36.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,financials services. Some people were\Nopting out but it wasn't due to privacy
Dialogue: 0,0:57:36.28,0:57:39.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,concerns it was because they were worried\Nabout using their credit card on the
Dialogue: 0,0:57:39.71,0:57:45.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Internet.\NH: So with that I'd like you to help me to
Dialogue: 0,0:57:45.24,0:57:47.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,thank our speaker Allison for this\Nwonderful talk.
Dialogue: 0,0:57:47.84,0:57:53.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}Applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:57:53.54,0:58:03.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}34C3 postroll music{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:58:03.26,0:58:15.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,subtitles created by c3subtitles.de\Nin the year 2020. Join, and help us!