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[music]

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(Speaker) 
So, I mean, it's the

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old adage you are what you eat.

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When I eat, like, sugary 
or caffeinated foods

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I often find myself, like, 
unable to focus.

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So, eating healthier foods
has had a significant impact on

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how well I can focus, as well as
how quick I can think.

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(Host)
That's Angela Guo.

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She's a 17-year old senior at
Adlai Stevenson High School

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in Lincolnshire, Illinois.

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And that adage she just cited,
"You are what you eat,"

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that's been around since the 1800's.

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People have known for a long time
just how much food affects us.

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But it's not just in terms of
long-term health,

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but also short-term mood.

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(Angela)
Food really helps us maintain

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a state clarity. And, so, 
eating healthier foods

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has had a significant impact

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on how well I can focus, as well as
how quick I can think.

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(Host) 
She may only be in high school,

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but Angela has

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already made the crucial connection 
between what she puts in her mouth

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and how quickly that affects her brain.

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She even believes that
simple understanding

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gave her a real advantage
when she competed

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in the National Science Olympiad
tournament earlier this year.

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(Announcer) 
First place, national champions of the

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2023 Science Olympiad National Tournament,

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Adlai Stevenson High School of Illinois! 
Let's go! [audience cheering]

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(Host)
Now, at this tournament earlier this year,

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Angela and her teammates went up
against thousands of students

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from around the country.

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They were competing in 
events, highlighting

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chemistry and earth science and biology.

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But here's the thing:
the entire time on Angela's team

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you really didn't see much sugar around.

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Instead, there were lots
of healthy snacks.

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(Angela)
So, even at school, I'd bring my own lunch

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and it's just that aspect of
knowing what goes into your meals

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is like really important. It kind of
gives you peace of mind.

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(Host) 
The team did really well, and now as they

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prepare for more tournaments,

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Angela, who's now a team captain, says,
"Sure, they do study hard,

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but what they eat, how they eat,
that's also top of mind.

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AG: When we do travel for Science Olympiad
our coaches always makes sure that

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our, like, bus is well stocked with

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fruits and water.

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SG: So Angela, seems pretty convinced
that food helps her focus

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and perform well academically.

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Of course, that makes sense
but the question today,

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"What is the empirical evidence
to support that and how does it work?

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How exactly does food impact the brain?

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And how do we really know when our brain
is well nourished?"

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Uma Naidoo: Sugar is not good

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for our brain

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But I also want people to understand
we need sugar for our bodies and our

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brain, so it's where you get the sugar
that's important.

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SG: Look, a lot of people worry about
how food influences the way we look,

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how much weight we may gain
-- I get that --

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or the likelihood we're going to be
high risk for diseases,

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like diabetes and hypertension.

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But even though it is harder to measure,
food is also deeply connected

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to how we feel in the moment
and how well the brain functions.

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Even as you listen to this podcast,
your experience, right now,

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is likely affected
by what you ate earlier today.

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So in this episode, I'm going to find out
what's the best fuel for the brain,

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what food we should avoid
and what it really means

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to have a well-nourished brain.

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I'm Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN's
Chief Medical Correspondent

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and this is Chasing Life.

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You know, I love hearing stories
like Angela's.

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They're so personal.
She's someone who's paying attention

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to her body and then she's figuring out

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what makes her feel good and what it takes
to do the activities she loves.

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She's being really intentional
with her nutrition

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and that may save her from having
health problems later in life

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but, it could help optimize
her function now.

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For me, food is an endless source
of fascination.

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The way that I think about it is this:

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Food is one of the most significant ways
we allow our outside world to influence

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and communicate with our inside world,
the world inside of our body and our mind.

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That is an awesome task. Food does that.

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So, I thought today we would start
with the basics.

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We know that all food items have calories
and calories are by definition energy

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but, as you just heard, not all calories
are created equal.

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Some have more nutrients
and do more to promote

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overall health and well-being than others.

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And that is especially true
when it comes to the brain.

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But the challenge again:
That's hard to measure.

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There is no brain scan or blood test 
that indicates that a particular food

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promotes brain health.

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So how do we really know?

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How do you really know what works for you?

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To find out, I return to someone
whose work I really respect

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both in the clinic and in the kitchen,
someone who knows a lot

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about this really intricate connection
between food and brain health.

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Uma Naidoo: If you want, you know,

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your brain to really be optimized,

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lean into the foods you like,
but the healthy versions of that.

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SG: That's Dr Uma Naidoo;
she's a nutritional psychiatrist.

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Such a cool field.
She's at Harvard Medical School.

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What she does is that she works
with patients to improve

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their mental health with the help
of medication and food.

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She's also a professional chef.
She's the author of the books

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"This is Your Brain on Food" and
"Calm Your Mind with Food."

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That one's going to be released
later this year.

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I should tell you, this is actually
Dr Naidoo's second time on the show.

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We spoke a few years ago about
the broader concept of food as medicine,

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and I was so fascinated by
the conversation, so affected by it,

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I asked her to come back and discuss
how food impacts brain health specifically

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and brain function.

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I have long said that I think food

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can be medicine, I also think 
just philosophically,

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we consciously decide what signals
we're going to give to the inside

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of our body through food.

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What the discussion has primarily
focused on has been calories and energy,

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and are you going overweight or not.

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UN: Correct
SG: So what are those foods that are both

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good for the brain and can actually
get to the brain?

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UN: What I think is good, and I think
what is helpful for people,

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especially in the U.S., is that most
people are consuming

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the standard American diet

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which, as you know, is called sad
for a reason.

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So any time that we can add those lipid
grains and those actual whole foods

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onto our plate, you know, and think
about it that way and step away

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a little bit from those processed 
fast foods,

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the healthier we are going to become
as a country and I think that that is

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because processed, ultra-processed foods
are engineered, as you know,

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to trick our brain.

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So we eat more, we can't stop ourselves.

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SG: Yeah, maybe I'm being audacious here
in doing a podcast about how to achieve

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a most optimally nourished brain.

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As you correctly point out, we have
a lot of work to do as a country to just

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stop doing the bad things, maybe even
before we can, uh, really, really focus

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on the good things.

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But the idea that food itself can be
medicine and that can be quantified,

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maybe even to the point, for someone like
you, prescribed. Are we to the point,

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with what we know, data-wise that food
can be thought of prescriptive,

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like we think of medicine?

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UN: So I can't yet say to you, you need
to eat ten blueberries over this amount

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of time to improve your mood.

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But what we do know from pretty large
population-based studies that

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if you were consuming extra-dark natural
chocolate, that it improved depression

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by 70% in over 12,000 participants. 
We know and it was in the candy bars

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it was extra dark natural chocolate, 
which contains serotonin, magnesium,

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um, some fiber. So, we're not at a point
where I can say this number

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of blueberries in order to improve 
your mood,

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but we are definitely emerging and
growing in the scientific evidence

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to be able to say you can construct
a nutritional psychiatry plate

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for your mood.

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You can lean into those leafy green
vegetable, 3-5 cups a day. Um, things like

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arugula, spinach all contain folate. 
A low folate is associated with low mood.

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So, we can give people guidance around it
and really have them understanding that

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food is moving in that direction.

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SG: Now before we hear more food 
recommendations, I want to note something

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that's, I think, really important here.
the term "brain food."

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That gets thrown around a lot. But, true
brain food meaning any food that actually

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impacts the function of the brain has to 
do something really important.

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It's got to get past the blood-brain 
barrier.

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Now, I don't want to get too wonky or
technical, but I think it's important

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for you to understand this point.
Think of the blood-brain barrier as sort

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of a body guard for the brain. 
This barrier prevents the entry of toxins

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and pathogens and other molecules
that could be harmful to the brain.

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What it looks like is a system of blood 
vessels around the brain and the central

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nervous system that sort of keep tight
control over which molecules and which

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nutrients are allowed to get in.

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UN: We know this, for example
a lot of serotonin that's manufactured

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in the gut and some in the brain
but the more peripheral serotonin

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doesn't cross over the blood brain
barrier, so why not look at the foods

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which are the precursors to the 
neurotransmitters, that then

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interact with the gut microbes,
I'm fascinated by the gut microbes.

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They interact with the gut microbes and 
then they are able to cross over

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the blood brain barrier and then form
the substances that we need in the

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brain. So I'm thinking about things we
need like serotonin and dopamine.

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Let me hit pause here to 
explain a couple of things about

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the gut. You probably know this,
but the gut contains trillions

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of micro organisms. Bacteria,
viruses, fungi. Collectively

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they are referred to as the gut
microbiome. Now, these micro organisms

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or microbes aren't just hanging out,
they play an important role in

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our health and they are constantly
interacting with each other and

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the rest of our body. While a few of
those bacteria or pathogens are

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potentially harmful, many are helpful.
For example, what they will do is

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they will break down food, they will
then interact with our immune system,

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they will synthesize vitamins and amino
acids. And then they communicate with

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other parts of the body. And that brings
me to the second thing about the gut.

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It is sometimes called the second brain,
and I think that is a good title. And

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that's because it uses many of the same
chemicals and cells as the brain to do

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its job and to communicate.
In fact, there is an extraordinary amount

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of cross talk between the gut and the 
brain. This makes the gut very

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sensitive to emotions. Anger, fear,
anxiety. Those things can cause

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problems in the gut, vise versa.
When the gut feels bad, it can

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cause anxiety and other emotional
issues. Understanding that might

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give new meaning to phrases like,
having "butterflies in your stomach"

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when you're nervous, or a quote, unquote
"gut feeling" about a person or

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a situation.

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This is why Doctor Naidoo's work is so 
important and intriguing. She says,

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"It is possible for food to impact how
well our brain functions and how we

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feel mentally." For example, some ultra
processed foods have been linked to

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disrupting the gut microbiome in a way
that increases the risk for depression.

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In contrast, some whole foods such as
bananas help trigger the production

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of important chemicals in the gut
such as the molecule, serotonin.

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But again, remember this point.
Much of the serotonin made

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in the gut cannot cross the blood
brain barrier and that is why

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Dr. Naidoo says we need to
focus on the precursors to

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serotonin, which can then cross
more easily and be assembled

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in the brain. Think of it like this,
there are certain foods, for example,

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ones that are rich in the amino acid
tryptophan, that when eaten interact

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with the gut microbiome. You
with me?

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And they become then the precursor
or building blocks for serotonin.

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And then these building blocks cross
into the brain, get converted to

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serotonin, and exert their influence. 
The reason that I'm repeating this

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so many times is because it
is so important. What does

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this all mean? Eating foods like, 
salmon or pineapple, ones that

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are loaded with tryptophan, could
help you feel happier and calmer.

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That is a better definition of brain
food.

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UN: Another fascinating but odd
research that is coming through is

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several microbiome companies testing
the microbiome. So, they are looking

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more deeply into what's in the 
microbiome and what you may need

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to eat versus what I might need to eat
because our microbiome is so

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sort of unique. Whether you take that
substance as a supplement, or you

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take it as a guidance around food, it
can really help us more finely tune

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the way that we can be eating.

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SG: What level of evidence to you rely
on to make your recommendations

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when it comes to food? How do you
collect that data and that evidence?

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UN: So, I try to keep current with 
whatever the new research is. For

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example, there was a fascinating study
done recently and all of these years

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I've been encouraging my patients to
eat foods that are rich in vitamin A.

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And this particular study show that 
actually vitamin A rich foods are not

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that helpful for mood or for your
brain health. Another interesting

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study...

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SG: What are those foods? Not to cut you
off, but what kinds of foods are we

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talking about?

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UN: So, you know, eggs, milk, fish oils
beef liver, tomatoes, red bell pepper.

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Now, does it mean that those foods
are foods I will tell my patients not

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to eat? Absolutely not. Uh, like, the
new research about serotonin. It's

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more that I would have emphasized
eating vitamin A rich foods along with

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that nutritional psychiatry plate. 
And I most importantly feel that

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what's been my secret sources has
been integrating the actual literature

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the research and what I do 
clinically with seeing patients and

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being able to monitor them you know
and see how they do. Because I think,

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please know that I come at this with 
great humility. I don't feel that

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because whatever I've studied that
you know, that I have the way to make

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everyone feel better. But I have 
certainly seen my patients improve.

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SG: You know, when I was growing up,
um, maybe you heard this as well

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when you were a child, but there
were certain foods that were "brain foods"

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Fish for example was sort of considered a
brain food.

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UN: Nuts, almonds.

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SG: Nuts, you know. And my mom would

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always, you know, "If you eat this, you'll

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be smart." You know, that was always the

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encouragement. But what of it, though? Are

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there foods that can reliably help our
brains? What are they, and why?

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UN: So, one of the groups I'll start with,
because people are pretty familiar

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with this, that the foods rich in
omega-3. So, things like fatty

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fish. There's a mnemonic for the fish that
are top of the list, "SMASH". Salmon,

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Mackerel, Anchovies, Sardines, and
Herring. Um, because they contain

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forms of uh EPAJHA that are actually
helpful um for the brain and will

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actually make a difference. And they 
have anti Primatene and antioxidant

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properties. Then, you know people who 
don't consume seafood can rely on the

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plant based sources like chia seeds, 
flax seeds, almonds. Having a vegan

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supplement or an algal oil supplement
made from sea algae is something that

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you can do to improve your brain 
performance if you feel you're not

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getting enough nutrition from food.
So that's one very big group. Another

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group of foods that I think people
tend to just think of only as a

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supplement, but is actually available
in our everyday foods, are prebiotics

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and probiotics.

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SG: Ok, I want to pause here again 
to offer a crash course in pre and

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probiotics. Terms you've probably heard
about. Probiotics are "live bacteria" that

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may offer health benefits when 
consumed in adequate numbers.

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You can find them in things like 
fermented foods. Yogurt, kimchee.

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You can buy them in pill form. Prebiotics 
on the other hand, are food for your

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microbiome. These are the organisms
that are living in your gut and prebiotic

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foods are usually higher in certain
types of fiber and include items like

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fruit and veggies and whole grains. 
Now, as Dr. Naidoo said, it is hard

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to prescribe these foods to an exact
timing or an exact dosage, but at the

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time, we have been making a lot of 
progress there as well.

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UN: So when we think about food groups, 
Omega 3, those probiotics and prebiotics,

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those fermented foods, all can actually be
helpful in reducing things like anxiety

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and depression.

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SG: We'll be right back.

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SG: And now back to Chasing Life and my 
conversation with nutritional psychiatrist

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Dr. Uma Naidoo. Now that I have a better
sense of which, and how, certain foods

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might impact my mood, what I wanted to
know is how food might affect my

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general brain health.

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UN: So just, you know, having a dairy and
non-dairy plain yogurt with live active

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cultures does help your gut. Probiotics
were actually tested in the study and the

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use of probiotics were compared to a
dose of an SSRI, and the probiotics showed

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a better effect. So, not to single out
just one study, it has been shown again,

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but I think that's compelling information,
that a person who is consuming something

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like yogurt, or say a fermented food is
adding these probiotics and live cultures

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to their gut, could in fact be helping
the gut microbes, helping the serotonin

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formation there. We don't know the exact
mechanisms of everything, but we can tell

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by the improvements in symptoms. For
example, if I am assessing someone in my

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clinic, I have to go by their report,
which may or may not be 100% accurate

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sometimes, but that happens with all of
us, but also to check the improvement of

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their mood. Improvement in anxiety. That
is one way to assess how they're doing and

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if these foods are making a difference.

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SG: So, you're comparing yogurt to an
antidepressant.

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UN: That's right.

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SG: I mean, that, I know it's almost
comical to reflect on, but I mean look, we

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take too many pills, ya know? And these
pills have side-effects, and so the idea

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that yogurt could, and I don't want to
overstate this, Dr. Naidoo, so you tell

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me. What do they find when they compare
yogurt to an antidepressant in a study?

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UN: So, they found that individuals who 
consumed yogurt along with, say, a

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selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitor 
had a better response and improvement in

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mood. So, it offered us a guidance in this
area to basically think that, you know, we

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can use these inventions around the gut
microbiome, and the use of things like

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probiotics. Which, you know, I think most
of my patients would rather reach for

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a yogurt than, you know, an
antidepressant.

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SG: If I was to describe to my three
teenage girls a well nourished brain,

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like, I think we can describe a healthy
body, right? We can say, "You don't have

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plaques in your blood vessels, you have
good blood pressure, heart rate.." all

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00:20:02,355 --> 00:20:08,341
that sort of stuff. How, Dr. Naidoo,
would you describe a well nourished brain?

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What do you get in return?

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00:20:10,062 --> 00:20:17,242
UN: For one thing, you focus, your energy,
your ability to get through your day, not

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00:20:17,242 --> 00:20:21,327
having that afternoon slump where you're
not quite sure but you're sluggish and

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you need another cup of coffee or candy
bar or something more. If you're athletic,

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00:20:25,665 --> 00:20:29,883
if you're engaged in sports or other
activities, if you're having fun with your

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friends and going out and doing things, 
you're going to have the energy to do

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that. Plus, you're going to be able to
actually manage your schoolwork because

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your brain being optimized, eating in a
healthy way will mean you can manage

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your schedule, you can multitask, you can
engage in other activities and still get

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through school okay and do well.

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SG: 80% of people over the age of 60 put 
"fear of loss of memory" as one of their

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00:20:53,972 --> 00:20:59,499
top concerns, fear of dementia of some
sort. Are there foods that can help stave

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off diseases like dementia?

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00:21:01,510 --> 00:21:07,368
UN: Yes. Certainly, there's some guidance
around what food to eat and how to eat it,

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so foods that will help cognition, we
actually go back to those Omega 3's.

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It's a group that's featured very
frequently. Olive oil is also one that we

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lean into. The herbs and spices that
showed up doing well for cognition, and

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for thinking, and for memory are turmeric 
with a pinch of black pepper, which makes

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it much more bioavailable. Cinnamon, 
saffron, rosemary, ginger, sage. Then

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some guidances around coffee was thought,
if you keep your caffeine consumption and 


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your coffee consumption under 400mg a day
was thought to be healthy, but for me,

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00:21:54,876 --> 00:22:00,129
this is some guidance, while I know that
those foods have been identified as

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00:22:00,129 --> 00:22:04,652
healthy, it's also part of an overall
plate, right? It's not just eating the

337
00:22:04,652 --> 00:22:08,320
nuts or eating the olive oils, it's
putting that together in a meal that's

338
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still tasty that makes a very big 
difference to balancing that out for

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people.

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SG: I'm very interested in trying to stay
as mentally sharp as possible, as long as

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possible. My life, I'm in my early 50's
now, I mean. You've talked about the

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00:22:28,027 --> 00:22:32,333
specific food groups and things that are 
probably going to be the ones I

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00:22:32,333 --> 00:22:36,327
should gravitate toward, but could you
just, like, what's an ideal breakfast, an

344
00:22:36,327 --> 00:22:40,038
ideal lunch, and an ideal dinner? Should I
be having all three meals, should I

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intermittently fast? Snacks? How would
you put it together?

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00:22:43,462 --> 00:22:48,094
UN: Right, so, with intermittent fasting
or with fasting in general, for my

347
00:22:48,094 --> 00:22:52,521
patients, we usually really see what their
body intelligence is. What I mean by that

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00:22:52,521 --> 00:22:56,471
is how they respond to food. Do they wake
up hungry? Do they need to take medication

349
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in the morning that require them to eat?
Some people naturally get up and they're

350
00:23:01,219 --> 00:23:06,123
not hungry, and then we lean more into
intuitive eating, lean into what your body

351
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pattern is. I like people to have snacks
because I'd rather they have some healthy

352
00:23:11,006 --> 00:23:15,645
nuts or a little bit of berries that will
nurture them through. Great breakfasts,

353
00:23:15,645 --> 00:23:21,539
things like a chia pudding rich in
protein, fiber, easy to make, has Omega

354
00:23:21,539 --> 00:23:28,731
3's in it, and can be prepared ahead.
Things like if you consume eggs with lots

355
00:23:28,731 --> 00:23:32,488
of veggies in them, or a vegetarian
version of that would be a tofu scramble,

356
00:23:32,488 --> 00:23:36,656
again lean into the spices,
your fresh herbs, because that's a great

357
00:23:36,656 --> 00:23:40,749
way to go. I'm a fan of avocado toast, I 
love sourdough bread, because it has a

358
00:23:40,749 --> 00:23:46,380
fermented starter, so the natural process
of it is it has a slightly lower sugar

359
00:23:46,380 --> 00:23:53,248
content. I slice tomato on it. The
lycopene from tomato are super healthy

360
00:23:53,248 --> 00:23:57,574
for the brain and it actually turns out 
that much of the lycopene is from the

361
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skin. So, you know, slice your tomatoes
and leave the skin on. For lunch, I like

362
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to lean into a really big salad and then
put my favorite proteins with that. So,

363
00:24:06,447 --> 00:24:13,647
lentils, legumes, and some tofu or other 
things which flavor it up, and make an

364
00:24:13,647 --> 00:24:18,443
interesting dressing that will make that 
enjoyable for you. Nuts and seeds are

365
00:24:18,443 --> 00:24:22,786
another great way to lean into it. Then, 
one of my other favorite afternoon snacks,

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and it's funny because I learned that
chocolate and citrus, like clementines or

367
00:24:27,458 --> 00:24:32,914
oranges, pair well from a flavor profile
in culinary school, but I recently, over

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00:24:32,914 --> 00:24:37,771
the last few years, discovered there's 
actual science behind it. Extra dark

369
00:24:37,771 --> 00:24:43,210
chocolate is the highest source of plant-
based iron. Cool reason to eat dark

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chocolate.

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SG: Look, I'm never going to eat dark
chocolate the same way again! I will

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00:24:47,658 --> 00:24:51,339
always have it with a little citrus. I
love little tips like that, that's

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fantastic.

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UN: Exactly. Then, in the evening is
when I'll usually end up having a bigger

375
00:24:55,848 --> 00:25:01,984
meal. Like, I'll do a cauliflower steak,
but I'll use the spices from tikka

376
00:25:01,984 --> 00:25:06,082
masala. So, you know, someone else in my 
family may have the chicken version, but

377
00:25:06,082 --> 00:25:10,073
I'll have the cauliflower version. I can
do it air fried or grilled, but I always

378
00:25:10,073 --> 00:25:15,609
add in veggies around that, so a salad.
I find that to be satiating, I know it's

379
00:25:15,609 --> 00:25:20,558
helping my metabolism, but it's a green.
So the green beans, or the brussel sprouts

380
00:25:20,558 --> 00:25:23,968
or whatever it is, I add spices to them so
that they're more flavorful.

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00:25:23,968 --> 00:25:26,327
SG: So, I didn't hear any meat?

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00:25:26,327 --> 00:25:30,757
UN: So, I was born into a vegetarian 
family, so I'm vegetarian.

383
00:25:30,757 --> 00:25:32,217
SG: Should I be a vegetarian?

384
00:25:32,217 --> 00:25:36,403
UN: (Laughs) No, I think people should eat
what they enjoy eating. I just think they

385
00:25:36,403 --> 00:25:40,234
should eat healthy versions. I happen to 
be in a family where everyone else eats

386
00:25:40,234 --> 00:25:47,430
meat, so I think that meat has a place on
that diet, and I feel like the B vitamins

387
00:25:47,430 --> 00:25:52,078
from meat are something that as a
vegetarian, I supplement. I think there is

388
00:25:52,078 --> 00:25:54,102
also a place for plant-based eaters.

389
00:25:54,102 --> 00:25:55,874
SG: What about carbs?

390
00:25:55,874 --> 00:26:00,364
UN: I think that carbs are important. 
They're really important for our brain,

391
00:26:00,364 --> 00:26:03,916
they're really important for our body, but
it's where we obtain our carbs.

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00:26:03,916 --> 00:26:10,289
SG: A lot of messaging seems to indicate
that they're toxic because of the glycemic

393
00:26:10,289 --> 00:26:13,691
index, the sugar, these types of things, 
the calories.

394
00:26:13,691 --> 00:26:19,163
UN: Right. So, all of those, there's truth
to many of those factors, but I think it's

395
00:26:19,163 --> 00:26:25,169
the messaging has also got to show people
that you need carbs for your body and for

396
00:26:25,169 --> 00:26:30,195
your brain to function. It's where you
obtain your carbs; if you're eating a

397
00:26:30,195 --> 00:26:35,759
sugary donut with a coffee laced with 
highly processed cream and eight sugars,

398
00:26:35,759 --> 00:26:43,219
that's very different from a avocado toast
on sourdough bread, maybe with some smoked

399
00:26:43,219 --> 00:26:49,606
salmon or a tofu scramble with tons of
spinach and vegetables in it. A totally

400
00:26:49,606 --> 00:26:52,588
different product. They break down
differently in your body.

401
00:26:52,588 --> 00:26:57,037
SG: Yeah, the healthy carbs vs. the
healthy proteins vs. the healthy fats, you

402
00:26:57,037 --> 00:27:04,162
know, these big categories of food. We 
know that myelin coats the nerves and it's

403
00:27:04,162 --> 00:27:08,143
kind of like the coating on a wire. A wire
doesn't conduct as well unless it has the

404
00:27:08,143 --> 00:27:12,469
coating on it. Myelin is sort of like that
coating on nerves, and that's made up

405
00:27:12,469 --> 00:27:17,461
primarily of fat, and there's been people
that I have talked to that have said you

406
00:27:17,461 --> 00:27:22,215
really need to focus on eating those fats
to get that myelin. I would put that at

407
00:27:22,215 --> 00:27:25,950
he top of my list in terms of brain
foods. Maybe not the healthiest

408
00:27:25,950 --> 00:27:31,618
cardiovascular, although again, these are
good fats, not the bad trans fats. If you

409
00:27:31,618 --> 00:27:36,232
look at healthy proteins, healthy fats,
healthy carbs, how to you sort of think

410
00:27:36,232 --> 00:27:38,661
about it with regard to impact on the 
brain?

411
00:27:39,386 --> 00:27:43,889
UN: So I think that balance is really
important. I ask people to lean into all

412
00:27:43,889 --> 00:27:48,198
the different vegetables, and I'm not 
leading with potatoes and sweet potatoes.

413
00:27:48,198 --> 00:27:52,416
I'm leading with cruciferous vegetables
and leafy greens, and legumes, lentils,

414
00:27:52,416 --> 00:27:56,897
and beans. Then you want to think of your 
olive oil, your avocado, your salmon, and

415
00:27:56,897 --> 00:28:01,691
your other healthy fats. You want to think
about, what I like to say, your "clean"

416
00:28:01,691 --> 00:28:11,309
source of protein, and all I mean by that
is have, you know, stir-fry tofu in a

417
00:28:11,309 --> 00:28:18,278
healthy way, or air fry something instead 
of deep fried fish, for example. The fish

418
00:28:18,278 --> 00:28:23,323
itself may be healthy, but the method is
not. Now, once in a while, of course, but

419
00:28:23,323 --> 00:28:28,468
not as your everyday meal. Then, I don't
forget fruit. So, some berries, you know,

420
00:28:28,468 --> 00:28:32,167
a couple servings of fruit is super
important to get those natural sugars into

421
00:28:32,167 --> 00:28:36,965
your body rather than reaching for the 
candy bar that we know is not the

422
00:28:36,965 --> 00:28:38,590
healthiest choice.

423
00:28:38,590 --> 00:28:43,443
SG: So what about sugar? And, let me
preface it by saying this; I did a piece

424
00:28:43,443 --> 00:28:47,923
for 60 Minutes years ago called "The Toxic
Truth", and we thought long and hard about

425
00:28:47,923 --> 00:28:51,589
what to title this, because I didn't want
it to be unfairly or unnecessarily

426
00:28:51,589 --> 00:28:55,746
alarmist. But, when I talked to some of
the nutritionists when we were

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00:28:55,746 --> 00:29:01,804
interviewing them, they said this is an
appropriate title. The way we humans

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00:29:01,804 --> 00:29:08,669
consume sugar is toxic. We consume too
much, our livers don't know what to do

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00:29:08,669 --> 00:29:13,581
with it, it hits our bodies like a tsunami
wave, and churns out these low-density

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00:29:13,581 --> 00:29:17,117
lipoproteins, the bad kind of
cholesterol, which I thought was really

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00:29:17,117 --> 00:29:21,620
interesting. The brain, when it's exposed
to too much sugar, the receptors will

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00:29:21,620 --> 00:29:26,241
actually start to shut down. So, you could
be in a situation, as they outlined it to

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00:29:26,241 --> 00:29:30,357
me, where you're stuffing the body and 
starving the brain essentially at the

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00:29:30,357 --> 00:29:34,035
same time, and that's because you're
eating too much sugar. We know it's a

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00:29:34,035 --> 00:29:37,503
problem, but how bad is sugar for our
brain?

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00:29:37,503 --> 00:29:42,857
UN: So, sugar is a problem, but I also
want people to understand we need sugar

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00:29:42,857 --> 00:29:46,715
for our bodies and our brains, so it's
where you get the sugar that's important.

438
00:29:46,715 --> 00:29:52,058
Metabolic health, you know, with the
rising in type 2 diabetes, insulin

439
00:29:52,058 --> 00:29:57,849
resistance in this country, the fact that
we have common overweight and obesity in

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00:29:57,849 --> 00:30:03,567
the country, there's a reason. I do think
there's so much sugar in our everyday

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00:30:03,567 --> 00:30:08,251
foods, including our savory foods, like
our ketchup, pasta sauces, salad

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00:30:08,251 --> 00:30:13,334
dressings. French fries at fast food 
restaurants are engineered to contain

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00:30:13,334 --> 00:30:18,074
sugar. You don't taste it, but they are
really engineered to tap into our

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00:30:18,074 --> 00:30:18,860
cravings.

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00:30:18,860 --> 00:30:24,774
SG: That sounds kind of sinister when you
put it like that. I realize that this

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00:30:24,774 --> 00:30:29,072
isn't opioids we're talking about, but
the idea of tapping into our cravings..

447
00:30:29,072 --> 00:30:38,599
UN: The research has shown that foods,
ultra processed and processed, have a

448
00:30:38,599 --> 00:30:45,147
significant amount of brain science
behind how they tap into cravings. I think

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00:30:45,147 --> 00:30:48,472
that, the more that people should
understand the amount of sugar in our

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00:30:48,472 --> 00:30:54,312
food. So, I teach all my patients that 4
grams of sugar is 1 teaspoon, because our

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00:30:54,312 --> 00:31:01,009
food labels are in grams and we cook and 
bake all our U.S. cookbooks in pounds and

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00:31:01,009 --> 00:31:07,819
ounces. So, if a person goes to a yogurt,
and it's 6oz or 4oz, it could have 24g of

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00:31:07,819 --> 00:31:11,820
sugar in it. You'd think, "Oh, that's not
bad." When actually, you wouldn't put that

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00:31:11,820 --> 00:31:14,430
number of teaspoons into your plain
yogurt.

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00:31:14,564 --> 00:31:18,491
SG: So, if you see 4g of sugar on the food
label, imagine you're seeing a full

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00:31:18,491 --> 00:31:24,520
teaspoon of sugar in it. You see 12g, 3 
teaspoons. So, it's a good visual. Let me

457
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:32,146
ask you real quick, coffee/caffeine is 
something that seems to come on and off

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00:31:32,146 --> 00:31:36,051
the favored list. Where do you land on
that, when it comes to the brain?

459
00:31:36,051 --> 00:31:39,873
UN: I like coffee, and I think that
coffee has a lot of health benefits in

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00:31:39,873 --> 00:31:44,745
it. It's actually rich in plant
polyphenols. The caffeine, my patients

461
00:31:44,745 --> 00:31:48,986
with anxiety can be sensitive to, so it 
depends on what their tolerance is.

462
00:31:48,986 --> 00:31:58,106
Interestingly, studies of ADHD in adults
show that coffee can help focus, so it's a

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00:31:58,106 --> 00:32:02,142
certain amount of coffee, not too much,
so my patients who are struggling with

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00:32:02,142 --> 00:32:06,829
ADHD or some issues around focus, I like
to encourage them, if they can tolerate

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00:32:06,829 --> 00:32:10,757
coffee and they don't become jittery or
uncomfortable. You know, have it early in

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00:32:10,757 --> 00:32:16,120
the day, don't go more than 2-3 cups, 
have them be small cups. Also, clean up

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00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:20,178
the coffee, meaning, you know, have it the
way that you'd like, but if you're putting

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00:32:20,178 --> 00:32:24,680
1/2 cup of processed cream and 8 sugars,
you're not helping your brain.

469
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:31,234
SG: Can we manage anxiety with food? This
is the topic of your new book coming out

470
00:32:31,234 --> 00:32:33,060
just in time for the holidays, right?

471
00:32:33,060 --> 00:32:37,732
UN: It is. My new book is "Calm Your Mind
With Food" because during the pandemic,

472
00:32:37,732 --> 00:32:42,843
that's what I saw. People really
struggling at all ages, all demographics,

473
00:32:42,843 --> 00:32:48,008
with anxiety and we know that even coming
out of Covid, that numbers are increased.

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00:32:48,008 --> 00:32:55,674
So, I feel that if we looked at an
integrated approach to really using

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00:32:55,674 --> 00:33:02,016
anxiety more as a strength and using food 
to harness how we can feel better, I think

476
00:33:02,016 --> 00:33:04,048
it'll help a lot of us.

477
00:33:04,048 --> 00:33:08,861
SG: I would like to imagine a world where
we just wouldn't have to take many of the

478
00:33:08,861 --> 00:33:14,597
medications that we take. I mean, I'm a
doctor, you're a doctor, there's a role,

479
00:33:14,597 --> 00:33:20,300
but we spend $4 trillion on health care,
and an increasingly large amount of that

480
00:33:20,300 --> 00:33:25,304
is on prescription drugs. Food is the only
signal we give the inside of our body from

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00:33:25,304 --> 00:33:31,803
the outside world on a daily basis and it
can be therapeutic. It can make us feel

482
00:33:31,803 --> 00:33:36,458
better, and I just really, really love
the work that you do, Dr. Naidoo. I really

483
00:33:36,458 --> 00:33:37,232
admire it.

484
00:33:37,412 --> 00:33:42,231
UN: Thank you so much. Thank you for
having me back, it's always great to talk

485
00:33:42,231 --> 00:33:44,894
to you. You always have fascinating
questions, I love it.

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00:33:46,749 --> 00:33:50,873
SG: We talked for a long time, Dr. Naidoo
and I, and she goes into even more depth

487
00:33:50,873 --> 00:33:54,782
in this connection between diet and
anxiety in her new book, which is coming

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00:33:54,782 --> 00:33:59,236
out in December. As I've told her, it's
an idea that I find really fascinating.

489
00:33:59,236 --> 00:34:05,777
It makes sense that food affects our
bodies. It also affects our brains, and

490
00:34:05,777 --> 00:34:09,788
it does so quickly, so it makes total
sense that it would affect our mental

491
00:34:09,788 --> 00:34:15,241
health as well. Food is more than just 
calories; it's a signal. It's a message.

492
00:34:15,241 --> 00:34:18,928
It affects more than your weight and 
whether you have a flat stomach or not.

493
00:34:18,928 --> 00:34:24,563
Food can be a medicine. It can help stave
off disease, manage our moods, help us

494
00:34:24,563 --> 00:34:30,297
think more clearly. So, chew on that the
next time you want to feel smarter, or

495
00:34:30,297 --> 00:34:35,895
calmer. Next time on Chasing Life, we have
a very special episode for you. We're

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00:34:35,895 --> 00:34:40,883
going to be talking about the frightened
brain. What happens when we get scared,

497
00:34:40,883 --> 00:34:45,407
and why do some people like feeling that
way? Who better to answer those questions

498
00:34:45,407 --> 00:34:49,240
than the king of horror himself: Stephen 
King.

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00:34:49,240 --> 00:34:55,585
Stephen King: Everything is out to get
you. You see, that's the dark side of the

500
00:34:55,585 --> 00:35:01,854
imagination. But, the good side of it is
that you're able to take reasonable

501
00:35:01,854 --> 00:35:09,779
precautions and watch out for either 
Coronavirus, or Jason in the Friday the

502
00:35:09,779 --> 00:35:12,395
13th movies. They both go together.

503
00:35:12,395 --> 00:35:15,589
SG: Thanks for listening.

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00:35:20,899 --> 00:35:25,415
Chasing life is a production of CNN Audio.
Our podcast is produced by Eryn

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00:35:25,415 --> 00:35:31,400
Mathewson, Madeleine Thompson, David Rind,
and Grace Walker. Our senior producer and

506
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:35,788
show runner is Felicia Patinkin. Andrea
Kane is our medical writer, and Tommy

507
00:35:35,788 --> 00:35:41,057
Barbarian is our engineer. Dan Dzula is
our technical director, and the executive

508
00:35:41,057 --> 00:35:45,498
producer of CNN audio is Steve Lickteig. 
Special thanks to Ben Tinker, Amanda Sealy

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00:35:45,498 --> 00:35:49,065
and Nadia Kounang of CNN Health.