0:00:00.470,0:00:03.648 [music] 0:00:03.648,0:00:05.138 (Speaker) [br]So, I mean, it's the 0:00:05.138,0:00:06.629 old adage you are what you eat. 0:00:07.140,0:00:09.970 When I eat, like, sugary [br]or caffeinated foods 0:00:09.970,0:00:12.800 I often find myself, like, [br]unable to focus. 0:00:13.394,0:00:18.230 So, eating healthier foods[br]has had a significant impact on 0:00:18.230,0:00:23.410 how well I can focus, as well as[br]how quick I can think. 0:00:23.950,0:00:25.594 (Host)[br]That's Angela Guo. 0:00:25.982,0:00:28.978 She's a 17-year old senior at[br]Adlai Stevenson High School 0:00:29.309,0:00:31.070 in Lincolnshire, Illinois. 0:00:31.568,0:00:34.954 And that adage she just cited,[br]"You are what you eat," 0:00:35.398,0:00:37.522 that's been around since the 1800's. 0:00:37.928,0:00:42.218 People have known for a long time[br]just how much food affects us. 0:00:42.818,0:00:45.650 But it's not just in terms of[br]long-term health, 0:00:45.966,0:00:48.123 but also short-term mood. 0:00:48.663,0:00:51.526 (Angela)[br]Food really helps us maintain 0:00:51.526,0:00:55.939 a state clarity. And, so, [br]eating healthier foods 0:00:55.939,0:00:58.691 has had a significant impact 0:00:58.691,0:01:04.021 on how well I can focus, as well as[br]how quick I can think. 0:01:04.058,0:01:05.901 (Host) [br]She may only be in high school, 0:01:05.901,0:01:06.794 but Angela has 0:01:06.794,0:01:10.494 already made the crucial connection [br]between what she puts in her mouth 0:01:10.494,0:01:12.950 and how quickly that affects her brain. 0:01:13.510,0:01:15.729 She even believes that[br]simple understanding 0:01:16.078,0:01:18.259 gave her a real advantage[br]when she competed 0:01:18.259,0:01:21.277 in the National Science Olympiad[br]tournament earlier this year. 0:01:22.006,0:01:25.404 (Announcer) [br]First place, national champions of the 0:01:25.404,0:01:28.849 2023 Science Olympiad National Tournament, 0:01:28.849,0:01:33.023 Adlai Stevenson High School of Illinois! [br]Let's go! [audience cheering] 0:01:33.663,0:01:35.951 (Host)[br]Now, at this tournament earlier this year, 0:01:35.951,0:01:38.957 Angela and her teammates went up[br]against thousands of students 0:01:38.957,0:01:40.179 from around the country. 0:01:40.179,0:01:42.387 They were competing in [br]events, highlighting 0:01:42.387,0:01:44.595 chemistry and earth science and biology. 0:01:44.870,0:01:48.006 But here's the thing:[br]the entire time on Angela's team 0:01:48.244,0:01:50.259 you really didn't see much sugar around. 0:01:50.430,0:01:53.037 Instead, there were lots[br]of healthy snacks. 0:01:54.310,0:01:56.969 (Angela)[br]So, even at school, I'd bring my own lunch 0:01:57.171,0:02:00.687 and it's just that aspect of[br]knowing what goes into your meals 0:02:00.911,0:02:03.865 is like really important. It kind of[br]gives you peace of mind. 0:02:04.093,0:02:07.019 (Host) [br]The team did really well, and now as they 0:02:07.019,0:02:08.477 prepare for more tournaments, 0:02:08.477,0:02:12.944 Angela, who's now a team captain, says,[br]"Sure, they do study hard, 0:02:13.192,0:02:17.791 but what they eat, how they eat,[br]that's also top of mind. 0:02:18.312,0:02:22.627 AG: When we do travel for Science Olympiad[br]our coaches always makes sure that 0:02:22.629,0:02:24.570 our, like, bus is well stocked with 0:02:24.570,0:02:26.512 fruits and water. 0:02:26.852,0:02:31.249 SG: So Angela, seems pretty convinced[br]that food helps her focus 0:02:31.249,0:02:33.447 and perform well academically. 0:02:33.866,0:02:37.203 Of course, that makes sense[br]but the question today, 0:02:37.409,0:02:41.970 "What is the empirical evidence[br]to support that and how does it work? 0:02:42.319,0:02:44.659 How exactly does food impact the brain? 0:02:44.969,0:02:48.330 And how do we really know when our brain[br]is well nourished?" 0:02:48.330,0:02:49.802 Uma Naidoo: Sugar is not good 0:02:49.802,0:02:50.573 for our brain 0:02:50.573,0:02:54.001 But I also want people to understand[br]we need sugar for our bodies and our 0:02:54.001,0:02:56.677 brain, so it's where you get the sugar[br]that's important. 0:02:56.677,0:03:00.389 SG: Look, a lot of people worry about[br]how food influences the way we look, 0:03:00.389,0:03:03.306 how much weight we may gain[br]-- I get that -- 0:03:03.306,0:03:06.394 or the likelihood we're going to be[br]high risk for diseases, 0:03:06.394,0:03:08.166 like diabetes and hypertension. 0:03:08.468,0:03:12.848 But even though it is harder to measure,[br]food is also deeply connected 0:03:12.848,0:03:17.721 to how we feel in the moment[br]and how well the brain functions. 0:03:17.793,0:03:21.833 Even as you listen to this podcast,[br]your experience, right now, 0:03:21.833,0:03:25.042 is likely affected[br]by what you ate earlier today. 0:03:25.646,0:03:30.506 So in this episode, I'm going to find out[br]what's the best fuel for the brain, 0:03:30.506,0:03:34.077 what food we should avoid[br]and what it really means 0:03:34.077,0:03:36.068 to have a well-nourished brain. 0:03:36.571,0:03:40.366 I'm Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN's[br]Chief Medical Correspondent 0:03:40.442,0:03:42.202 and this is Chasing Life. 0:03:47.934,0:03:50.155 You know, I love hearing stories[br]like Angela's. 0:03:50.155,0:03:52.903 They're so personal.[br]She's someone who's paying attention 0:03:52.903,0:03:54.761 to her body and then she's figuring out 0:03:54.761,0:03:58.790 what makes her feel good and what it takes[br]to do the activities she loves. 0:03:59.299,0:04:02.141 She's being really intentional[br]with her nutrition 0:04:02.141,0:04:05.335 and that may save her from having[br]health problems later in life 0:04:05.393,0:04:08.478 but, it could help optimize[br]her function now. 0:04:08.972,0:04:12.387 For me, food is an endless source[br]of fascination. 0:04:12.933,0:04:14.883 The way that I think about it is this: 0:04:15.206,0:04:20.596 Food is one of the most significant ways[br]we allow our outside world to influence 0:04:20.596,0:04:26.189 and communicate with our inside world,[br]the world inside of our body and our mind. 0:04:26.642,0:04:29.394 That is an awesome task. Food does that. 0:04:29.802,0:04:32.187 So, I thought today we would start[br]with the basics. 0:04:32.187,0:04:36.466 We know that all food items have calories[br]and calories are by definition energy 0:04:36.843,0:04:40.673 but, as you just heard, not all calories[br]are created equal. 0:04:40.964,0:04:43.580 Some have more nutrients[br]and do more to promote 0:04:43.580,0:04:45.714 overall health and well-being than others. 0:04:46.022,0:04:48.993 And that is especially true[br]when it comes to the brain. 0:04:49.396,0:04:52.954 But the challenge again:[br]That's hard to measure. 0:04:52.954,0:04:57.460 There is no brain scan or blood test [br]that indicates that a particular food 0:04:57.603,0:04:59.340 promotes brain health. 0:04:59.340,0:05:01.083 So how do we really know? 0:05:01.083,0:05:03.679 How do you really know what works for you? 0:05:05.600,0:05:08.930 To find out, I return to someone[br]whose work I really respect 0:05:08.974,0:05:13.204 both in the clinic and in the kitchen,[br]someone who knows a lot 0:05:13.204,0:05:17.537 about this really intricate connection[br]between food and brain health. 0:05:18.040,0:05:19.716 Uma Naidoo: If you want, you know, 0:05:19.716,0:05:21.496 your brain to really be optimized, 0:05:21.658,0:05:24.873 lean into the foods you like,[br]but the healthy versions of that. 0:05:25.039,0:05:29.904 SG: That's Dr Uma Naidoo;[br]she's a nutritional psychiatrist. 0:05:30.136,0:05:32.755 Such a cool field.[br]She's at Harvard Medical School. 0:05:33.157,0:05:35.863 What she does is that she works[br]with patients to improve 0:05:35.863,0:05:39.464 their mental health with the help[br]of medication and food. 0:05:39.795,0:05:42.809 She's also a professional chef.[br]She's the author of the books 0:05:42.809,0:05:46.362 "This is Your Brain on Food" and[br]"Calm Your Mind with Food." 0:05:46.362,0:05:48.756 That one's going to be released[br]later this year. 0:05:48.756,0:05:52.514 I should tell you, this is actually[br]Dr Naidoo's second time on the show. 0:05:53.151,0:05:57.269 We spoke a few years ago about[br]the broader concept of food as medicine, 0:05:57.550,0:06:00.960 and I was so fascinated by[br]the conversation, so affected by it, 0:06:00.960,0:06:05.191 I asked her to come back and discuss[br]how food impacts brain health specifically 0:06:05.615,0:06:07.029 and brain function. 0:06:07.188,0:06:09.546 I have long said that I think food 0:06:09.546,0:06:13.176 can be medicine, I also think [br]just philosophically, 0:06:13.176,0:06:16.999 we consciously decide what signals[br]we're going to give to the inside 0:06:16.999,0:06:18.408 of our body through food. 0:06:19.155,0:06:22.734 What the discussion has primarily[br]focused on has been calories and energy, 0:06:23.005,0:06:24.986 and are you going overweight or not. 0:06:25.025,0:06:27.506 UN: Correct[br]SG: So what are those foods that are both 0:06:27.506,0:06:30.038 good for the brain and can actually[br]get to the brain? 0:06:30.038,0:06:34.520 UN: What I think is good, and I think[br]what is helpful for people, 0:06:34.520,0:06:37.550 especially in the U.S., is that most[br]people are consuming 0:06:37.550,0:06:38.979 the standard American diet 0:06:38.979,0:06:41.343 which, as you know, is called sad[br]for a reason. 0:06:41.507,0:06:45.923 So any time that we can add those lipid[br]grains and those actual whole foods 0:06:46.023,0:06:51.666 onto our plate, you know, and think[br]about it that way and step away 0:06:51.666,0:06:54.088 a little bit from those processed [br]fast foods, 0:06:54.616,0:06:58.205 the healthier we are going to become[br]as a country and I think that that is 0:06:58.205,0:07:02.331 because processed, ultra-processed foods[br]are engineered, as you know, 0:07:02.331,0:07:03.478 to trick our brain. 0:07:03.478,0:07:06.843 So we eat more, we can't stop ourselves. 0:07:06.843,0:07:12.179 SG: Yeah, maybe I'm being audacious here[br]in doing a podcast about how to achieve 0:07:12.179,0:07:15.596 a most optimally nourished brain. 0:07:15.596,0:07:19.516 As you correctly point out, we have[br]a lot of work to do as a country to just 0:07:19.516,0:07:24.805 stop doing the bad things, maybe even[br]before we can, uh, really, really focus 0:07:24.805,0:07:25.902 on the good things. 0:07:25.902,0:07:30.678 But the idea that food itself can be[br]medicine and that can be quantified, 0:07:30.941,0:07:36.087 maybe even to the point, for someone like[br]you, prescribed. Are we to the point, 0:07:36.317,0:07:40.230 with what we know, data-wise that food[br]can be thought of prescriptive, 0:07:40.576,0:07:41.858 like we think of medicine? 0:07:42.129,0:07:46.798 UN: So I can't yet say to you, you need[br]to eat ten blueberries over this amount 0:07:46.798,0:07:48.357 of time to improve your mood. 0:07:48.357,0:07:51.990 But what we do know from pretty large[br]population-based studies that 0:07:51.990,0:07:57.615 if you were consuming extra-dark natural[br]chocolate, that it improved depression 0:07:57.615,0:08:02.883 by 70% in over 12,000 participants. [br]We know and it was in the candy bars 0:08:02.883,0:08:06.903 it was extra dark natural chocolate, [br]which contains serotonin, magnesium, 0:08:06.997,0:08:11.944 um, some fiber. So, we're not at a point[br]where I can say this number 0:08:11.944,0:08:14.150 of blueberries in order to improve [br]your mood, 0:08:14.150,0:08:17.769 but we are definitely emerging and[br]growing in the scientific evidence 0:08:17.769,0:08:22.169 to be able to say you can construct[br]a nutritional psychiatry plate 0:08:22.169,0:08:23.461 for your mood. 0:08:23.461,0:08:29.283 You can lean into those leafy green[br]vegetable, 3-5 cups a day. Um, things like 0:08:29.283,0:08:34.013 arugula, spinach all contain folate. [br]A low folate is associated with low mood. 0:08:34.013,0:08:38.880 So, we can give people guidance around it[br]and really have them understanding that 0:08:38.880,0:08:41.188 food is moving in that direction. 0:08:42.158,0:08:45.983 SG: Now before we hear more food [br]recommendations, I want to note something 0:08:45.983,0:08:50.002 that's, I think, really important here.[br]the term "brain food." 0:08:50.002,0:08:54.195 That gets thrown around a lot. But, true[br]brain food meaning any food that actually 0:08:54.220,0:08:58.539 impacts the function of the brain has to [br]do something really important. 0:08:58.972,0:09:01.378 It's got to get past the blood-brain [br]barrier. 0:09:01.693,0:09:05.264 Now, I don't want to get too wonky or[br]technical, but I think it's important 0:09:05.264,0:09:08.937 for you to understand this point.[br]Think of the blood-brain barrier as sort 0:09:08.937,0:09:13.005 of a body guard for the brain. [br]This barrier prevents the entry of toxins 0:09:13.005,0:09:16.240 and pathogens and other molecules[br]that could be harmful to the brain. 0:09:16.667,0:09:20.550 What it looks like is a system of blood [br]vessels around the brain and the central 0:09:20.550,0:09:24.975 nervous system that sort of keep tight[br]control over which molecules and which 0:09:24.975,0:09:26.745 nutrients are allowed to get in. 0:09:27.365,0:09:30.652 UN: We know this, for example[br]a lot of serotonin that's manufactured 0:09:30.896,0:09:36.677 in the gut and some in the brain[br]but the more peripheral serotonin 0:09:36.677,0:09:40.847 doesn't cross over the blood brain[br]barrier, so why not look at the foods 0:09:40.847,0:09:46.190 which are the precursors to the [br]neurotransmitters, that then 0:09:46.190,0:09:49.334 interact with the gut microbes,[br]I'm fascinated by the gut microbes. 0:09:49.499,0:09:53.524 They interact with the gut microbes and [br]then they are able to cross over 0:09:53.524,0:09:56.919 the blood brain barrier and then form[br]the substances that we need in the 0:09:56.919,0:10:00.314 brain. So I'm thinking about things we[br]need like serotonin and dopamine. 0:10:02.456,0:10:05.165 Let me hit pause here to [br]explain a couple of things about 0:10:05.165,0:10:09.057 the gut. You probably know this,[br]but the gut contains trillions 0:10:09.057,0:10:14.409 of micro organisms. Bacteria,[br]viruses, fungi. Collectively 0:10:14.409,0:10:19.663 they are referred to as the gut[br]microbiome. Now, these micro organisms 0:10:19.663,0:10:23.668 or microbes aren't just hanging out,[br]they play an important role in 0:10:23.668,0:10:27.131 our health and they are constantly[br]interacting with each other and 0:10:27.131,0:10:31.009 the rest of our body. While a few of[br]those bacteria or pathogens are 0:10:31.009,0:10:35.222 potentially harmful, many are helpful.[br]For example, what they will do is 0:10:35.222,0:10:38.885 they will break down food, they will[br]then interact with our immune system, 0:10:38.885,0:10:43.035 they will synthesize vitamins and amino[br]acids. And then they communicate with 0:10:43.035,0:10:47.323 other parts of the body. And that brings[br]me to the second thing about the gut. 0:10:47.323,0:10:52.339 It is sometimes called the second brain,[br]and I think that is a good title. And 0:10:52.339,0:10:56.776 that's because it uses many of the same[br]chemicals and cells as the brain to do 0:10:56.776,0:11:01.127 its job and to communicate.[br]In fact, there is an extraordinary amount 0:11:01.127,0:11:05.717 of cross talk between the gut and the [br]brain. This makes the gut very 0:11:05.717,0:11:11.063 sensitive to emotions. Anger, fear,[br]anxiety. Those things can cause 0:11:11.063,0:11:15.773 problems in the gut, vise versa.[br]When the gut feels bad, it can 0:11:15.773,0:11:20.205 cause anxiety and other emotional[br]issues. Understanding that might 0:11:20.205,0:11:23.817 give new meaning to phrases like,[br]having "butterflies in your stomach" 0:11:23.817,0:11:27.783 when you're nervous, or a quote, unquote[br]"gut feeling" about a person or 0:11:27.783,0:11:28.903 a situation. 0:11:29.272,0:11:33.785 This is why Doctor Naidoo's work is so [br]important and intriguing. She says, 0:11:33.785,0:11:38.370 "It is possible for food to impact how[br]well our brain functions and how we 0:11:38.370,0:11:43.515 feel mentally." For example, some ultra[br]processed foods have been linked to 0:11:43.515,0:11:48.034 disrupting the gut microbiome in a way[br]that increases the risk for depression. 0:11:48.034,0:11:52.975 In contrast, some whole foods such as[br]bananas help trigger the production 0:11:52.975,0:11:56.568 of important chemicals in the gut[br]such as the molecule, serotonin. 0:11:56.568,0:12:00.945 But again, remember this point.[br]Much of the serotonin made 0:12:00.945,0:12:05.314 in the gut cannot cross the blood[br]brain barrier and that is why 0:12:05.314,0:12:08.506 Dr. Naidoo says we need to[br]focus on the precursors to 0:12:08.506,0:12:12.830 serotonin, which can then cross[br]more easily and be assembled 0:12:12.830,0:12:18.017 in the brain. Think of it like this,[br]there are certain foods, for example, 0:12:18.017,0:12:23.272 ones that are rich in the amino acid[br]tryptophan, that when eaten interact 0:12:23.272,0:12:25.531 with the gut microbiome. You[br]with me? 0:12:25.531,0:12:29.782 And they become then the precursor[br]or building blocks for serotonin. 0:12:29.782,0:12:35.979 And then these building blocks cross[br]into the brain, get converted to 0:12:35.979,0:12:40.516 serotonin, and exert their influence. [br]The reason that I'm repeating this 0:12:40.516,0:12:43.637 so many times is because it[br]is so important. What does 0:12:43.637,0:12:47.902 this all mean? Eating foods like, [br]salmon or pineapple, ones that 0:12:47.902,0:12:52.690 are loaded with tryptophan, could[br]help you feel happier and calmer. 0:12:52.690,0:12:55.738 That is a better definition of brain[br]food. 0:12:57.648,0:13:01.129 UN: Another fascinating but odd[br]research that is coming through is 0:13:01.129,0:13:06.754 several microbiome companies testing[br]the microbiome. So, they are looking 0:13:06.754,0:13:11.571 more deeply into what's in the [br]microbiome and what you may need 0:13:11.571,0:13:15.447 to eat versus what I might need to eat[br]because our microbiome is so 0:13:15.447,0:13:20.148 sort of unique. Whether you take that[br]substance as a supplement, or you 0:13:20.148,0:13:24.983 take it as a guidance around food, it[br]can really help us more finely tune 0:13:24.983,0:13:26.713 the way that we can be eating. 0:13:27.441,0:13:32.494 SG: What level of evidence to you rely[br]on to make your recommendations 0:13:32.494,0:13:36.175 when it comes to food? How do you[br]collect that data and that evidence? 0:13:36.175,0:13:41.209 UN: So, I try to keep current with [br]whatever the new research is. For 0:13:41.209,0:13:45.056 example, there was a fascinating study[br]done recently and all of these years 0:13:45.056,0:13:48.746 I've been encouraging my patients to[br]eat foods that are rich in vitamin A. 0:13:48.746,0:13:54.478 And this particular study show that [br]actually vitamin A rich foods are not 0:13:54.478,0:13:59.176 that helpful for mood or for your[br]brain health. Another interesting 0:13:59.176,0:13:59.876 study... 0:13:59.876,0:14:03.601 SG: What are those foods? Not to cut you[br]off, but what kinds of foods are we 0:14:03.601,0:14:04.301 talking about? 0:14:04.301,0:14:09.135 UN: So, you know, eggs, milk, fish oils[br]beef liver, tomatoes, red bell pepper. 0:14:09.135,0:14:12.510 Now, does it mean that those foods[br]are foods I will tell my patients not 0:14:12.510,0:14:16.714 to eat? Absolutely not. Uh, like, the[br]new research about serotonin. It's 0:14:16.714,0:14:20.780 more that I would have emphasized[br]eating vitamin A rich foods along with 0:14:20.780,0:14:25.311 that nutritional psychiatry plate. [br]And I most importantly feel that 0:14:25.311,0:14:30.885 what's been my secret sources has[br]been integrating the actual literature 0:14:30.885,0:14:34.624 the research and what I do [br]clinically with seeing patients and 0:14:34.624,0:14:39.484 being able to monitor them you know[br]and see how they do. Because I think, 0:14:39.610,0:14:42.940 please know that I come at this with [br]great humility. I don't feel that 0:14:42.940,0:14:47.378 because whatever I've studied that[br]you know, that I have the way to make 0:14:47.378,0:14:50.675 everyone feel better. But I have [br]certainly seen my patients improve. 0:14:50.975,0:14:54.293 SG: You know, when I was growing up,[br]um, maybe you heard this as well 0:14:54.293,0:14:58.283 when you were a child, but there[br]were certain foods that were "brain foods" 0:14:58.283,0:15:01.483 Fish for example was sort of considered a[br]brain food. 0:15:01.483,0:15:02.344 UN: Nuts, almonds. 0:15:02.344,0:15:04.112 SG: Nuts, you know. And my mom would 0:15:04.112,0:15:06.124 always, you know, "If you eat this, you'll 0:15:06.124,0:15:08.030 be smart." You know, that was always the 0:15:08.030,0:15:10.363 encouragement. But what of it, though? Are 0:15:10.363,0:15:17.618 there foods that can reliably help our[br]brains? What are they, and why? 0:15:17.809,0:15:21.439 UN: So, one of the groups I'll start with,[br]because people are pretty familiar 0:15:21.439,0:15:24.581 with this, that the foods rich in[br]omega-3. So, things like fatty 0:15:24.581,0:15:28.805 fish. There's a mnemonic for the fish that[br]are top of the list, "SMASH". Salmon, 0:15:28.805,0:15:36.338 Mackerel, Anchovies, Sardines, and[br]Herring. Um, because they contain 0:15:36.338,0:15:43.542 forms of uh EPAJHA that are actually[br]helpful um for the brain and will 0:15:43.542,0:15:47.454 actually make a difference. And they [br]have anti Primatene and antioxidant 0:15:47.454,0:15:53.696 properties. Then, you know people who [br]don't consume seafood can rely on the 0:15:53.696,0:15:58.318 plant based sources like chia seeds, [br]flax seeds, almonds. Having a vegan 0:15:58.318,0:16:02.691 supplement or an algal oil supplement[br]made from sea algae is something that 0:16:02.691,0:16:05.982 you can do to improve your brain [br]performance if you feel you're not 0:16:05.982,0:16:10.284 getting enough nutrition from food.[br]So that's one very big group. Another 0:16:10.284,0:16:13.642 group of foods that I think people[br]tend to just think of only as a 0:16:13.642,0:16:17.227 supplement, but is actually available[br]in our everyday foods, are prebiotics 0:16:17.227,0:16:18.275 and probiotics. 0:16:19.668,0:16:23.706 SG: Ok, I want to pause here again [br]to offer a crash course in pre and 0:16:23.706,0:16:29.506 probiotics. Terms you've probably heard[br]about. Probiotics are "live bacteria" that 0:16:29.506,0:16:33.623 may offer health benefits when [br]consumed in adequate numbers. 0:16:33.623,0:16:37.630 You can find them in things like [br]fermented foods. Yogurt, kimchee. 0:16:37.630,0:16:43.513 You can buy them in pill form. Prebiotics [br]on the other hand, are food for your 0:16:43.513,0:16:48.632 microbiome. These are the organisms[br]that are living in your gut and prebiotic 0:16:48.632,0:16:52.440 foods are usually higher in certain[br]types of fiber and include items like 0:16:52.440,0:16:57.242 fruit and veggies and whole grains. [br]Now, as Dr. Naidoo said, it is hard 0:16:57.242,0:17:02.030 to prescribe these foods to an exact[br]timing or an exact dosage, but at the 0:17:02.030,0:17:04.824 time, we have been making a lot of [br]progress there as well. 0:17:05.685,0:17:09.640 UN: So when we think about food groups, [br]Omega 3, those probiotics and prebiotics, 0:17:09.640,0:17:15.621 those fermented foods, all can actually be[br]helpful in reducing things like anxiety 0:17:15.621,0:17:16.928 and depression. 0:17:16.928,0:17:19.207 SG: We'll be right back. 0:17:27.276,0:17:31.182 SG: And now back to Chasing Life and my [br]conversation with nutritional psychiatrist 0:17:31.555,0:17:37.182 Dr. Uma Naidoo. Now that I have a better[br]sense of which, and how, certain foods 0:17:37.182,0:17:40.840 might impact my mood, what I wanted to[br]know is how food might affect my 0:17:40.840,0:17:42.419 general brain health. 0:17:43.116,0:17:47.769 UN: So just, you know, having a dairy and[br]non-dairy plain yogurt with live active 0:17:47.769,0:17:55.410 cultures does help your gut. Probiotics[br]were actually tested in the study and the 0:17:55.410,0:18:01.880 use of probiotics were compared to a[br]dose of an SSRI, and the probiotics showed 0:18:01.880,0:18:06.349 a better effect. So, not to single out[br]just one study, it has been shown again, 0:18:06.349,0:18:13.878 but I think that's compelling information,[br]that a person who is consuming something 0:18:13.878,0:18:18.565 like yogurt, or say a fermented food is[br]adding these probiotics and live cultures 0:18:18.565,0:18:24.449 to their gut, could in fact be helping[br]the gut microbes, helping the serotonin 0:18:24.449,0:18:30.183 formation there. We don't know the exact[br]mechanisms of everything, but we can tell 0:18:30.183,0:18:33.898 by the improvements in symptoms. For[br]example, if I am assessing someone in my 0:18:33.898,0:18:38.503 clinic, I have to go by their report,[br]which may or may not be 100% accurate 0:18:38.503,0:18:44.088 sometimes, but that happens with all of[br]us, but also to check the improvement of 0:18:44.088,0:18:49.838 their mood. Improvement in anxiety. That[br]is one way to assess how they're doing and 0:18:49.838,0:18:52.587 if these foods are making a difference. 0:18:52.587,0:18:55.221 SG: So, you're comparing yogurt to an[br]antidepressant. 0:18:55.221,0:18:56.826 UN: That's right. 0:18:56.826,0:19:01.856 SG: I mean, that, I know it's almost[br]comical to reflect on, but I mean look, we 0:19:01.856,0:19:06.962 take too many pills, ya know? And these[br]pills have side-effects, and so the idea 0:19:06.962,0:19:12.528 that yogurt could, and I don't want to[br]overstate this, Dr. Naidoo, so you tell 0:19:12.528,0:19:16.899 me. What do they find when they compare[br]yogurt to an antidepressant in a study? 0:19:16.899,0:19:22.658 UN: So, they found that individuals who [br]consumed yogurt along with, say, a 0:19:22.658,0:19:28.110 selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitor [br]had a better response and improvement in 0:19:28.110,0:19:34.541 mood. So, it offered us a guidance in this[br]area to basically think that, you know, we 0:19:34.541,0:19:39.601 can use these inventions around the gut[br]microbiome, and the use of things like 0:19:39.601,0:19:43.824 probiotics. Which, you know, I think most[br]of my patients would rather reach for 0:19:43.824,0:19:46.158 a yogurt than, you know, an[br]antidepressant. 0:19:46.603,0:19:53.388 SG: If I was to describe to my three[br]teenage girls a well nourished brain, 0:19:53.388,0:19:58.618 like, I think we can describe a healthy[br]body, right? We can say, "You don't have 0:19:58.618,0:20:02.355 plaques in your blood vessels, you have[br]good blood pressure, heart rate.." all 0:20:02.355,0:20:08.341 that sort of stuff. How, Dr. Naidoo,[br]would you describe a well nourished brain? 0:20:08.411,0:20:10.062 What do you get in return? 0:20:10.062,0:20:17.242 UN: For one thing, you focus, your energy,[br]your ability to get through your day, not 0:20:17.242,0:20:21.327 having that afternoon slump where you're[br]not quite sure but you're sluggish and 0:20:21.327,0:20:25.665 you need another cup of coffee or candy[br]bar or something more. If you're athletic, 0:20:25.665,0:20:29.883 if you're engaged in sports or other[br]activities, if you're having fun with your 0:20:29.883,0:20:33.581 friends and going out and doing things, [br]you're going to have the energy to do 0:20:33.581,0:20:37.272 that. Plus, you're going to be able to[br]actually manage your schoolwork because 0:20:37.272,0:20:40.848 your brain being optimized, eating in a[br]healthy way will mean you can manage 0:20:40.848,0:20:46.225 your schedule, you can multitask, you can[br]engage in other activities and still get 0:20:46.225,0:20:48.235 through school okay and do well. 0:20:48.522,0:20:53.972 SG: 80% of people over the age of 60 put [br]"fear of loss of memory" as one of their 0:20:53.972,0:20:59.499 top concerns, fear of dementia of some[br]sort. Are there foods that can help stave 0:20:59.499,0:21:01.510 off diseases like dementia? 0:21:01.510,0:21:07.368 UN: Yes. Certainly, there's some guidance[br]around what food to eat and how to eat it, 0:21:07.368,0:21:15.371 so foods that will help cognition, we[br]actually go back to those Omega 3's. 0:21:15.371,0:21:22.033 It's a group that's featured very[br]frequently. Olive oil is also one that we 0:21:22.033,0:21:28.590 lean into. The herbs and spices that[br]showed up doing well for cognition, and 0:21:28.590,0:21:32.831 for thinking, and for memory are turmeric [br]with a pinch of black pepper, which makes 0:21:32.831,0:21:41.160 it much more bioavailable. Cinnamon, [br]saffron, rosemary, ginger, sage. Then 0:21:41.160,0:21:48.352 some guidances around coffee was thought,[br]if you keep your caffeine consumption and [br] 0:21:48.352,0:21:54.876 your coffee consumption under 400mg a day[br]was thought to be healthy, but for me, 0:21:54.876,0:22:00.129 this is some guidance, while I know that[br]those foods have been identified as 0:22:00.129,0:22:04.652 healthy, it's also part of an overall[br]plate, right? It's not just eating the 0:22:04.652,0:22:08.320 nuts or eating the olive oils, it's[br]putting that together in a meal that's 0:22:08.320,0:22:11.740 still tasty that makes a very big [br]difference to balancing that out for 0:22:11.740,0:22:12.705 people. 0:22:13.682,0:22:20.857 SG: I'm very interested in trying to stay[br]as mentally sharp as possible, as long as 0:22:20.857,0:22:28.027 possible. My life, I'm in my early 50's[br]now, I mean. You've talked about the 0:22:28.027,0:22:32.333 specific food groups and things that are [br]probably going to be the ones I 0:22:32.333,0:22:36.327 should gravitate toward, but could you[br]just, like, what's an ideal breakfast, an 0:22:36.327,0:22:40.038 ideal lunch, and an ideal dinner? Should I[br]be having all three meals, should I 0:22:40.038,0:22:43.287 intermittently fast? Snacks? How would[br]you put it together? 0:22:43.462,0:22:48.094 UN: Right, so, with intermittent fasting[br]or with fasting in general, for my 0:22:48.094,0:22:52.521 patients, we usually really see what their[br]body intelligence is. What I mean by that 0:22:52.521,0:22:56.471 is how they respond to food. Do they wake[br]up hungry? Do they need to take medication 0:22:56.471,0:23:01.160 in the morning that require them to eat?[br]Some people naturally get up and they're 0:23:01.219,0:23:06.123 not hungry, and then we lean more into[br]intuitive eating, lean into what your body 0:23:06.123,0:23:11.006 pattern is. I like people to have snacks[br]because I'd rather they have some healthy 0:23:11.006,0:23:15.645 nuts or a little bit of berries that will[br]nurture them through. Great breakfasts, 0:23:15.645,0:23:21.539 things like a chia pudding rich in[br]protein, fiber, easy to make, has Omega 0:23:21.539,0:23:28.731 3's in it, and can be prepared ahead.[br]Things like if you consume eggs with lots 0:23:28.731,0:23:32.488 of veggies in them, or a vegetarian[br]version of that would be a tofu scramble, 0:23:32.488,0:23:36.656 again lean into the spices,[br]your fresh herbs, because that's a great 0:23:36.656,0:23:40.749 way to go. I'm a fan of avocado toast, I [br]love sourdough bread, because it has a 0:23:40.749,0:23:46.380 fermented starter, so the natural process[br]of it is it has a slightly lower sugar 0:23:46.380,0:23:53.248 content. I slice tomato on it. The[br]lycopene from tomato are super healthy 0:23:53.248,0:23:57.574 for the brain and it actually turns out [br]that much of the lycopene is from the 0:23:57.574,0:24:02.435 skin. So, you know, slice your tomatoes[br]and leave the skin on. For lunch, I like 0:24:02.435,0:24:06.447 to lean into a really big salad and then[br]put my favorite proteins with that. So, 0:24:06.447,0:24:13.647 lentils, legumes, and some tofu or other [br]things which flavor it up, and make an 0:24:13.647,0:24:18.443 interesting dressing that will make that [br]enjoyable for you. Nuts and seeds are 0:24:18.443,0:24:22.786 another great way to lean into it. Then, [br]one of my other favorite afternoon snacks, 0:24:22.786,0:24:27.458 and it's funny because I learned that[br]chocolate and citrus, like clementines or 0:24:27.458,0:24:32.914 oranges, pair well from a flavor profile[br]in culinary school, but I recently, over 0:24:32.914,0:24:37.771 the last few years, discovered there's [br]actual science behind it. Extra dark 0:24:37.771,0:24:43.210 chocolate is the highest source of plant-[br]based iron. Cool reason to eat dark 0:24:43.210,0:24:44.082 chocolate. 0:24:44.082,0:24:47.658 SG: Look, I'm never going to eat dark[br]chocolate the same way again! I will 0:24:47.658,0:24:51.339 always have it with a little citrus. I[br]love little tips like that, that's 0:24:51.339,0:24:52.213 fantastic. 0:24:52.213,0:24:55.848 UN: Exactly. Then, in the evening is[br]when I'll usually end up having a bigger 0:24:55.848,0:25:01.984 meal. Like, I'll do a cauliflower steak,[br]but I'll use the spices from tikka 0:25:01.984,0:25:06.082 masala. So, you know, someone else in my [br]family may have the chicken version, but 0:25:06.082,0:25:10.073 I'll have the cauliflower version. I can[br]do it air fried or grilled, but I always 0:25:10.073,0:25:15.609 add in veggies around that, so a salad.[br]I find that to be satiating, I know it's 0:25:15.609,0:25:20.558 helping my metabolism, but it's a green.[br]So the green beans, or the brussel sprouts 0:25:20.558,0:25:23.968 or whatever it is, I add spices to them so[br]that they're more flavorful. 0:25:23.968,0:25:26.327 SG: So, I didn't hear any meat? 0:25:26.327,0:25:30.757 UN: So, I was born into a vegetarian [br]family, so I'm vegetarian. 0:25:30.757,0:25:32.217 SG: Should I be a vegetarian? 0:25:32.217,0:25:36.403 UN: (Laughs) No, I think people should eat[br]what they enjoy eating. I just think they 0:25:36.403,0:25:40.234 should eat healthy versions. I happen to [br]be in a family where everyone else eats 0:25:40.234,0:25:47.430 meat, so I think that meat has a place on[br]that diet, and I feel like the B vitamins 0:25:47.430,0:25:52.078 from meat are something that as a[br]vegetarian, I supplement. I think there is 0:25:52.078,0:25:54.102 also a place for plant-based eaters. 0:25:54.102,0:25:55.874 SG: What about carbs? 0:25:55.874,0:26:00.364 UN: I think that carbs are important. [br]They're really important for our brain, 0:26:00.364,0:26:03.916 they're really important for our body, but[br]it's where we obtain our carbs. 0:26:03.916,0:26:10.289 SG: A lot of messaging seems to indicate[br]that they're toxic because of the glycemic 0:26:10.289,0:26:13.691 index, the sugar, these types of things, [br]the calories. 0:26:13.691,0:26:19.163 UN: Right. So, all of those, there's truth[br]to many of those factors, but I think it's 0:26:19.163,0:26:25.169 the messaging has also got to show people[br]that you need carbs for your body and for 0:26:25.169,0:26:30.195 your brain to function. It's where you[br]obtain your carbs; if you're eating a 0:26:30.195,0:26:35.759 sugary donut with a coffee laced with [br]highly processed cream and eight sugars, 0:26:35.759,0:26:43.219 that's very different from a avocado toast[br]on sourdough bread, maybe with some smoked 0:26:43.219,0:26:49.606 salmon or a tofu scramble with tons of[br]spinach and vegetables in it. A totally 0:26:49.606,0:26:52.588 different product. They break down[br]differently in your body. 0:26:52.588,0:26:57.037 SG: Yeah, the healthy carbs vs. the[br]healthy proteins vs. the healthy fats, you 0:26:57.037,0:27:04.162 know, these big categories of food. We [br]know that myelin coats the nerves and it's 0:27:04.162,0:27:08.143 kind of like the coating on a wire. A wire[br]doesn't conduct as well unless it has the 0:27:08.143,0:27:12.469 coating on it. Myelin is sort of like that[br]coating on nerves, and that's made up 0:27:12.469,0:27:17.461 primarily of fat, and there's been people[br]that I have talked to that have said you 0:27:17.461,0:27:22.215 really need to focus on eating those fats[br]to get that myelin. I would put that at 0:27:22.215,0:27:25.950 he top of my list in terms of brain[br]foods. Maybe not the healthiest 0:27:25.950,0:27:31.618 cardiovascular, although again, these are[br]good fats, not the bad trans fats. If you 0:27:31.618,0:27:36.232 look at healthy proteins, healthy fats,[br]healthy carbs, how to you sort of think 0:27:36.232,0:27:38.661 about it with regard to impact on the [br]brain? 0:27:39.386,0:27:43.889 UN: So I think that balance is really[br]important. I ask people to lean into all 0:27:43.889,0:27:48.198 the different vegetables, and I'm not [br]leading with potatoes and sweet potatoes. 0:27:48.198,0:27:52.416 I'm leading with cruciferous vegetables[br]and leafy greens, and legumes, lentils, 0:27:52.416,0:27:56.897 and beans. Then you want to think of your [br]olive oil, your avocado, your salmon, and 0:27:56.897,0:28:01.691 your other healthy fats. You want to think[br]about, what I like to say, your "clean" 0:28:01.691,0:28:11.309 source of protein, and all I mean by that[br]is have, you know, stir-fry tofu in a 0:28:11.309,0:28:18.278 healthy way, or air fry something instead [br]of deep fried fish, for example. The fish 0:28:18.278,0:28:23.323 itself may be healthy, but the method is[br]not. Now, once in a while, of course, but 0:28:23.323,0:28:28.468 not as your everyday meal. Then, I don't[br]forget fruit. So, some berries, you know, 0:28:28.468,0:28:32.167 a couple servings of fruit is super[br]important to get those natural sugars into 0:28:32.167,0:28:36.965 your body rather than reaching for the [br]candy bar that we know is not the 0:28:36.965,0:28:38.590 healthiest choice. 0:28:38.590,0:28:43.443 SG: So what about sugar? And, let me[br]preface it by saying this; I did a piece 0:28:43.443,0:28:47.923 for 60 Minutes years ago called "The Toxic[br]Truth", and we thought long and hard about 0:28:47.923,0:28:51.589 what to title this, because I didn't want[br]it to be unfairly or unnecessarily 0:28:51.589,0:28:55.746 alarmist. But, when I talked to some of[br]the nutritionists when we were 0:28:55.746,0:29:01.804 interviewing them, they said this is an[br]appropriate title. The way we humans 0:29:01.804,0:29:08.669 consume sugar is toxic. We consume too[br]much, our livers don't know what to do 0:29:08.669,0:29:13.581 with it, it hits our bodies like a tsunami[br]wave, and churns out these low-density 0:29:13.581,0:29:17.117 lipoproteins, the bad kind of[br]cholesterol, which I thought was really 0:29:17.117,0:29:21.620 interesting. The brain, when it's exposed[br]to too much sugar, the receptors will 0:29:21.620,0:29:26.241 actually start to shut down. So, you could[br]be in a situation, as they outlined it to 0:29:26.241,0:29:30.357 me, where you're stuffing the body and [br]starving the brain essentially at the 0:29:30.357,0:29:34.035 same time, and that's because you're[br]eating too much sugar. We know it's a 0:29:34.035,0:29:37.503 problem, but how bad is sugar for our[br]brain? 0:29:37.503,0:29:42.857 UN: So, sugar is a problem, but I also[br]want people to understand we need sugar 0:29:42.857,0:29:46.715 for our bodies and our brains, so it's[br]where you get the sugar that's important. 0:29:46.715,0:29:52.058 Metabolic health, you know, with the[br]rising in type 2 diabetes, insulin 0:29:52.058,0:29:57.849 resistance in this country, the fact that[br]we have common overweight and obesity in 0:29:57.849,0:30:03.567 the country, there's a reason. I do think[br]there's so much sugar in our everyday 0:30:03.567,0:30:08.251 foods, including our savory foods, like[br]our ketchup, pasta sauces, salad 0:30:08.251,0:30:13.334 dressings. French fries at fast food [br]restaurants are engineered to contain 0:30:13.334,0:30:18.074 sugar. You don't taste it, but they are[br]really engineered to tap into our 0:30:18.074,0:30:18.860 cravings. 0:30:18.860,0:30:24.774 SG: That sounds kind of sinister when you[br]put it like that. I realize that this 0:30:24.774,0:30:29.072 isn't opioids we're talking about, but[br]the idea of tapping into our cravings.. 0:30:29.072,0:30:38.599 UN: The research has shown that foods,[br]ultra processed and processed, have a 0:30:38.599,0:30:45.147 significant amount of brain science[br]behind how they tap into cravings. I think 0:30:45.147,0:30:48.472 that, the more that people should[br]understand the amount of sugar in our 0:30:48.472,0:30:54.312 food. So, I teach all my patients that 4[br]grams of sugar is 1 teaspoon, because our 0:30:54.312,0:31:01.009 food labels are in grams and we cook and [br]bake all our U.S. cookbooks in pounds and 0:31:01.009,0:31:07.819 ounces. So, if a person goes to a yogurt,[br]and it's 6oz or 4oz, it could have 24g of 0:31:07.819,0:31:11.820 sugar in it. You'd think, "Oh, that's not[br]bad." When actually, you wouldn't put that 0:31:11.820,0:31:14.430 number of teaspoons into your plain[br]yogurt. 0:31:14.564,0:31:18.491 SG: So, if you see 4g of sugar on the food[br]label, imagine you're seeing a full 0:31:18.491,0:31:24.520 teaspoon of sugar in it. You see 12g, 3 [br]teaspoons. So, it's a good visual. Let me 0:31:24.520,0:31:32.146 ask you real quick, coffee/caffeine is [br]something that seems to come on and off 0:31:32.146,0:31:36.051 the favored list. Where do you land on[br]that, when it comes to the brain? 0:31:36.051,0:31:39.873 UN: I like coffee, and I think that[br]coffee has a lot of health benefits in 0:31:39.873,0:31:44.745 it. It's actually rich in plant[br]polyphenols. The caffeine, my patients 0:31:44.745,0:31:48.986 with anxiety can be sensitive to, so it [br]depends on what their tolerance is. 0:31:48.986,0:31:58.106 Interestingly, studies of ADHD in adults[br]show that coffee can help focus, so it's a 0:31:58.106,0:32:02.142 certain amount of coffee, not too much,[br]so my patients who are struggling with 0:32:02.142,0:32:06.829 ADHD or some issues around focus, I like[br]to encourage them, if they can tolerate 0:32:06.829,0:32:10.757 coffee and they don't become jittery or[br]uncomfortable. You know, have it early in 0:32:10.757,0:32:16.120 the day, don't go more than 2-3 cups, [br]have them be small cups. Also, clean up 0:32:16.120,0:32:20.178 the coffee, meaning, you know, have it the[br]way that you'd like, but if you're putting 0:32:20.178,0:32:24.680 1/2 cup of processed cream and 8 sugars,[br]you're not helping your brain. 0:32:24.680,0:32:31.234 SG: Can we manage anxiety with food? This[br]is the topic of your new book coming out 0:32:31.234,0:32:33.060 just in time for the holidays, right? 0:32:33.060,0:32:37.732 UN: It is. My new book is "Calm Your Mind[br]With Food" because during the pandemic, 0:32:37.732,0:32:42.843 that's what I saw. People really[br]struggling at all ages, all demographics, 0:32:42.843,0:32:48.008 with anxiety and we know that even coming[br]out of Covid, that numbers are increased. 0:32:48.008,0:32:55.674 So, I feel that if we looked at an[br]integrated approach to really using 0:32:55.674,0:33:02.016 anxiety more as a strength and using food [br]to harness how we can feel better, I think 0:33:02.016,0:33:04.048 it'll help a lot of us. 0:33:04.048,0:33:08.861 SG: I would like to imagine a world where[br]we just wouldn't have to take many of the 0:33:08.861,0:33:14.597 medications that we take. I mean, I'm a[br]doctor, you're a doctor, there's a role, 0:33:14.597,0:33:20.300 but we spend $4 trillion on health care,[br]and an increasingly large amount of that 0:33:20.300,0:33:25.304 is on prescription drugs. Food is the only[br]signal we give the inside of our body from 0:33:25.304,0:33:31.803 the outside world on a daily basis and it[br]can be therapeutic. It can make us feel 0:33:31.803,0:33:36.458 better, and I just really, really love[br]the work that you do, Dr. Naidoo. I really 0:33:36.458,0:33:37.232 admire it. 0:33:37.412,0:33:42.231 UN: Thank you so much. Thank you for[br]having me back, it's always great to talk 0:33:42.231,0:33:44.894 to you. You always have fascinating[br]questions, I love it. 0:33:46.749,0:33:50.873 SG: We talked for a long time, Dr. Naidoo[br]and I, and she goes into even more depth 0:33:50.873,0:33:54.782 in this connection between diet and[br]anxiety in her new book, which is coming 0:33:54.782,0:33:59.236 out in December. As I've told her, it's[br]an idea that I find really fascinating. 0:33:59.236,0:34:05.777 It makes sense that food affects our[br]bodies. It also affects our brains, and 0:34:05.777,0:34:09.788 it does so quickly, so it makes total[br]sense that it would affect our mental 0:34:09.788,0:34:15.241 health as well. Food is more than just [br]calories; it's a signal. It's a message. 0:34:15.241,0:34:18.928 It affects more than your weight and [br]whether you have a flat stomach or not. 0:34:18.928,0:34:24.563 Food can be a medicine. It can help stave[br]off disease, manage our moods, help us 0:34:24.563,0:34:30.297 think more clearly. So, chew on that the[br]next time you want to feel smarter, or 0:34:30.297,0:34:35.895 calmer. Next time on Chasing Life, we have[br]a very special episode for you. We're 0:34:35.895,0:34:40.883 going to be talking about the frightened[br]brain. What happens when we get scared, 0:34:40.883,0:34:45.407 and why do some people like feeling that[br]way? Who better to answer those questions 0:34:45.407,0:34:49.240 than the king of horror himself: Stephen [br]King. 0:34:49.240,0:34:55.585 Stephen King: Everything is out to get[br]you. You see, that's the dark side of the 0:34:55.585,0:35:01.854 imagination. But, the good side of it is[br]that you're able to take reasonable 0:35:01.854,0:35:09.779 precautions and watch out for either [br]Coronavirus, or Jason in the Friday the 0:35:09.779,0:35:12.395 13th movies. They both go together. 0:35:12.395,0:35:15.589 SG: Thanks for listening. 0:35:20.899,0:35:25.415 Chasing life is a production of CNN Audio.[br]Our podcast is produced by Eryn 0:35:25.415,0:35:31.400 Mathewson, Madeleine Thompson, David Rind,[br]and Grace Walker. Our senior producer and 0:35:31.400,0:35:35.788 show runner is Felicia Patinkin. Andrea[br]Kane is our medical writer, and Tommy 0:35:35.788,0:35:41.057 Barbarian is our engineer. Dan Dzula is[br]our technical director, and the executive 0:35:41.057,0:35:45.498 producer of CNN audio is Steve Lickteig. [br]Special thanks to Ben Tinker, Amanda Sealy 0:35:45.498,0:35:49.065 and Nadia Kounang of CNN Health.