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[music]

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(Speaker) 
So, I mean, it's the

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old adage you are what you eat.

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When I eat, like, sugary 
or caffeinated foods

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I often find myself, like, 
unable to focus.

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So, eating healthier foods
has had a significant impact on

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how well I can focus, as well as
how quick I can think.

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(Host)
That's Angela Guo.

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She's a 17-year old senior at
Adlai Stevenson High School

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in Lincolnshire, Illinois.

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And that adage she just cited,
"You are what you eat,"

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that's been around since the 1800's.

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People have known for a long time
just how much food affects us.

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But it's not just in terms of
long-term health,

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but also short-term mood.

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(Angela)
Food really helps us maintain

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a state clarity. And so 
eating healthier foods

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has had a significant impact

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on how well I can focus, as well as
how quick I can think.

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(Host) 
She may only be in high school,

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but Angela has

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already made the crucial connection 
between what she puts in her mouth

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and how quickly that affects her brain.

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She even believes that
simple understanding

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gave her a real advantage
when she competed

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in the National Science Olympiad
tournament earlier this year.

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(Announcer) 
First place, national champions of the

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2023 Science Olympiad National Tournament,

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Adlai Stevenson High School of Illinois! 
Let's go! [audience cheering]

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(Host)
Now at this tournament earlier this year,

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Angela and her teammates went up
against thousands of students

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from around the country.

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They were competing in 
events, highlighting

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chemistry and earth science and biology.

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But here's the thing:
the entire time on Angela's team

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you really didn't see much sugar around.

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Instead, there were lots
of healthy snacks.

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(Angela)
So, even at school, I'd bring my own lunch

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and it's just that aspect of
knowing what goes into your meals

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is like really important. It kind of
gives you peace of mind.

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(Host) 
The team did really well, and now as they

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prepare for more tournaments,

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Angela, who's now a team captain, says,
"Sure, they do study hard,

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but what they eat, how they eat,
that's also top of mind.

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AG: When we do travel for Science Olympiad
our coaches always makes sure that

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our like bus is well stocked with

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fruits and water.

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SG: So Angela, seems pretty convinced
that food helps her focus

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and perform well academically.

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Of course, that makes sense
but the question today,

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"What is the empirical evidence
to support that and how does it work?

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How exactly does food impact the brain?

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And how do we really know when our brain
is well nourished?"

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Uma Naidoo: Sugar is not good

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for our brain

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But I also want people to understand
we need sugar for our bodies

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and our brain,

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so it's where you get the sugar
that's important.

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SG: Look, a lot of people worry about
how food influences the way we look,

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how much weight we may gain
-- I get that --

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or the likelihood we're going to be
high risk for diseases,

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like diabetes and hypertension.

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But even though it is harder to measure,
food is also deeply connected

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to how we feel in the moment
and how well the brain functions.

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Even as you listen to this podcast,
your experience, right now,

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is likely affected
by what you ate earlier today.

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So in this episode, I'm going to find out
what's the best fuel for the brain,

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what food we should avoid
and what it really means

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to have a well-nourished brain.

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I'm Dr Sanjay Gupta, CNN's
Chief medical correspondent

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and this is Chasing life.

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You know, I love hearing stories
like Angela's.

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They're so personal.

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She's someone who's paying attention
to her body and then she's figuring out

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what makes her feel good and what it takes
to do the activities she loves.

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She's being really intentional
with her nutrition

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and that may save her from having
health problems later in life

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but it could help optimize
her function now.

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For me, food is an endless source
of fascination.

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The way that I think about it is this:

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food is one of the most significant ways
we allow our outside world to influence

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and communicate with our inside world,
the world inside of our body and our mind.

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That is an awesome task. Food does that.

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So, I thought today we would start
with the basics.

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We know that all food items have calories
and calories are by definition energy

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but, as you just heard, not all calories
are created equal.

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Some have more nutrients
and do more to promote

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overall health and well-being than others.

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And that is especially true
when it comes to the brain.

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But the challenge again:
that's hard to measure.

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There is no brain scan or blood test 
that indicates that a particular food

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promotes brain health.

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So how do we really know?

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How do you really know what works for you?

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To find out, I return to someone
whose work I really respect

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both in the clinic and in the kitchen,
someone who knows a lot

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about this really intricate connection
between food and brain health.

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Uma Naidoo: if you want, you know,

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your brain to really be optimized

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lean into the foods you like,
but the healthy versions of that.

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SG: That' Dr Uma Naidoo;
she's a nutritional psychiatrist.

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Such a cool field.
She's at Harvard medical school.

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What she does is that she works
with patients to improve

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their mental health with the help
of medication and food.

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She's also a professional chef.
She's the author of the books

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"This is Your Brain on Food" and
"Calm Your Mind with Food."

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That one's going to be released
later this year.

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I should tell you, this is actually
Dr Naidoo's second time on the show.

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We spoke a few years ago about
the broader concept of food as medicine.

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And I was so fascinated by
the conversation, so affected by it,

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I asked her to come back and discuss
how food impacts brain health specifically

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and brain function.

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I have long said that I think food

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can be medicine, I also think 
just philosophically,

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we consciously decide what signals
we're going to give to the inside

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of our body through food.

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What the discussion has primarily
focused on has been calories and energy,

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and are you going overweight or not.

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UN: Correct
SG: So what are those foods that are both

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good for the brain and can actually
get to the brain.

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UN: What I think is good, and I think
what is helpful for people,

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especially in the U.S., is that most
people are consuming

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the standard American diet

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which, as you know, is called sad
for a reason.

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So any time that we can add those lipid
grains and those actual whole foods

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onto our plate, you know, and think
about it that way and step away

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a little bit from those processed 
fast foods

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the healthier we are going to become
as a country and I think that that is

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because processed, ultra-processed foods
are engineered, as you know,

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to trick our brain.

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So we eat more, we can't stop ourselves.

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SG: Yeah, maybe I'm being audacious here
in doing a podcast about how to achieve

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a most optimally nourished brain.

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As you correctly point out, we have
a lot of work to do as a country to just

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stop doing the bad things, maybe even
before we can, uh, really, really focus

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on the good things.

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But the idea that food itself can be
medicine and that can be quantified,

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maybe even to the point, for someone like
you, prescribed. Are we to the point,

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with what we know, data-wise that food
can be thought of prescriptive,

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like we think of medicine?

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UN: So I can't yet say to you, you need
to eat ten blueberries over this amount

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of time to improve your mood.

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But what we do know from pretty large
population-based studies that

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if you were consuming extra-dark natural
chocolate, that it improved depression

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by 70% in over 12,000 participants. 
We know and it was in the candy bars

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it was extra dark natural chocolate, 
which contains serotonin, magnesium,

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um, some fiber. So we're not at a point
where I can say this number

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of blueberries in order to improve 
your mood,

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but we are definitely emerging and
growing in the scientific evidence

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to be able to say you can construct
a nutritional psychiatry plate

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for your mood.

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You can lean into those leafy green
vegetable, 3-5 cups a day. Um, things like

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arugula, spinach all contain folate. 
A low folate is associated with low mood.

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So, we can give people guidance around it
and really have them understanding that

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food is moving in that direction.

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SG: Now before we hear more food 
recommendations, I want to note something

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that's, I think, really important here.
the term "brain food."

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That gets thrown around a lot. But, true
brain food meaning any food that actually

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impacts the function of the brain has to 
do something really important.

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Its got to get past the blood-brain 
barrier.

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Now, I don't want to get to wonky or
technical, but I think it's important

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for you to understand this point.
Think of the blood-brain barrier as sort

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of a body guard for the brain. 
This barrier prevents the entry of toxins

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and pathogens and other molecules
that could be harmful to the brain.

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What it looks like is a system of blood 
vessels around the brain and the central

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nervous system that sort of keep tight
over which molecules and which

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nutrients are allowed to get in.

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UN: We know this, for example
a lot of serotonin that's manufactured

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in the gut and some in the brain
but the more peripheral serotonin

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doesn't cross over the blood brain
barrier, so why not look at the foods

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which are the precursors to the 
neurotransmitters, that then

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interact with the gut microbes,
I'm fascinated by the gut microbes.

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The impact of the gut microbes and 
then they are able to cross over

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the blood brain barrier and then form
the substances that we need

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in the brain. So I'm thinking about
things we need like serotonin

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and dopamine.

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Let me hit pause here to 
explain a couple of things about

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the gut. You probably know this
but the gut contains trillions

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of micro organisms. Bacteria,
viruses, fungi. Collectively

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they are referred to as the gut
microbiome. Now these micro organisms

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or microbes aren't just hanging out,
they play an important role in

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our health and they are constantly
interacting with each other and

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the rest of our body. While a few of
those bacteria or pathogens are

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potentially harmful, many are helpful.
For example, what they will do is

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they will break down food, they will
then interact with our immune system,

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they will synthesize vitamins and amino
acids. And then they communicate with

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other parts of the body. And that brings
me to the second thing about the gut.

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It is sometimes called the second brain,
and I think that is a good title. And

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that's because it uses many of the same
chemicals and cells as the brain to do

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its job and to communicate.
In fact, there is an extraordinary amount

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of cross talk between the gut and the 
brain. This makes the gut very

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sensitive to emotions. Anger, fear,
anxiety. Those things can cause

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problems in the gut, vise versa.
When the gut feels bad, it can

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cause anxiety and other emotional
issues. Understanding that might

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give new meaning to phrases like,
having butterflies in your stomach

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when you're nervous. Or a quote, unquote
gut feeling about a person or a situation.

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This is why Doctor Niudu's work is so 
important and intriguing. She says,

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"It is possible for food to impact how
well our brain functions and how we

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feel mentally." For example, some ultra
processed foods have been linked to

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disrupting the gut microbiome in a way
that increases the risk for depression.

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In contrast, whole foods such as
bananas help trigger the production

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of important chemicals in the gut
such as the molecule, serotonin.

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But again, remember this point
much of the serotonin made

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in the gut cannot cross the blood
brain barrier and that is why

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doctor Nidu says we need to
focus on the precursors to

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serotonin. Which can then cross
more easily and be assembled

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in the brain. Think of it like this,
there are certain foods, for example,

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ones that are rich in the amino acid
tryptophan, that when eaten interact

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with the gut microbiome. You
with me?

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And they become then the precursor
or building blocks for serotonin.

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And then these building blocks cross
into the brain and get converted to

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serotonin and exert their influence. 
The reason that I'm repeating this

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so many times is because it
is so important. What does

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this all mean? Eating foods like, 
salmon or pineapple ones that

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are loaded with tryptophan could
help you feel happier and calmer.

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That is a better definition of brain
food.

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UN: Another fascinating but odd
research that is coming through is

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several microbiome companies testing
the microbiome. So they are looking

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more deeply into what's in the 
microbiome and what you may need

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to eat versus what I might need to eat
because our microbiome is so

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sort of unique. Whether you take that
substance as a supplement or you

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take it as a guidance around food, it
can really help us more finely tune

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the way that we can be eating.

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SG: What level of evidence to you rely
on to make your recommendations

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when it comes to food? How do you
collect that data and that evidence?

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UN: So I try to keep current with 
whatever the new research is. For

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example, there was a fascinating study
done recently and all of these years

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I've been encouraging my patients to
eat foods that are rich in vitamin A.

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And this particular study show that 
actually vitamin A rich foods are not

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that helpful for mode of your
brain health. Another interesting

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study.

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SG: What are those foods? Not to cut you
off, but what kinds of foods are we

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talking about?

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UN: So, you know, eggs, milk, fish oils
beef liver, tomatoes, red bell pepper.

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Now does it mean that those foods
are foods I will tell my patients not

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to eat? Absolutely not. Uh like the
new research about serotonin. It's

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more that I would have emphasized
eating vitamin A rich foods along with

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that nutritional psychiatry plate. 
And I most importantly feel that

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what's been my secret sources has
been integrating the actual literature

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the research and what I do 
clinically with seeing patients and

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being able to monitor them you know
and see how they do. Because I think,

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please know that I come at this with 
great humility. I don't feel that

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because whatever I've studied that
you know, that I have the way to make

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everyone feel better. But I can still 
see my patients improve.

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SG: You know, when I was growing up
um maybe you heard this as well

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when you were a child. But there
were certain foods that were

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"brain foods." Fish for example
was sort of considered a brain food.

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UN: Nuts, almonds.
SG: Nuts, you know. And my

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mom would always you know
"If you eat this, you'll be smart."

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You know, that was always the

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encouragement. But what of it,
though? Are there foods that

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can reliably help our brains? 
What are they and why?

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UN: So one of the groups I'll start with
because people are pretty familiar

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with this that the foods rich in
omega-3. So things like fatty

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fish they're mnemonic for the fish that
are top of the list. SMASH. Salmon,

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Mackerel, Anchovies, Sardines, and
Herring. Um because they contain

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forms of uh EPAJHA that are actually
helpful um for the brain and will

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actually make a difference. And the 
have anti Primatene and antioxidant

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properties. Then, you know people who 
don't consume seafood can rely on the

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plant based sources like chia seeds, 
flax seeds, almonds. Having a vegan

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supplement or an algal oil supplement
made from sea algae is something that

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you can do to improve your brain 
performance if you feel you're not

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getting enough nutrition from food.
So that's one very big group. Another

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group of foods that I think people
tend to just think of only as a

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supplement but is actually available
in our everyday foods are prebiotics

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and probiotics.

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SG: Ok, I want to pause here again 
to offer a crash course in pre and

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probiotics. Terms you've probably heard
about. Probiotics are "live bacteria" that

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may offer health benefits when 
consumed in adequate numbers.

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You can find them in things like 
fermented foods. Yogurt, kimchee.

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You can buy them in pill form. Prebiotics 
on the other hand, are food for your

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microbiome. These are the organisms
that are living in your gut and prebiotic

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foods are usually higher in certain
types of fiber and include items like

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fruit and veggies and whole grains. 
Now as Doctor Nidu said it is hard

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to prescribe these foods