Music
Angela Guo: So, it's the old adage on what you eat
when I eaτ sugary or caffeinated food I often find myself, like unable to focus
So, eating healthier foods has a significant impact on
how well I can focus, as well as how quick I can think.
Sanjay Gupta: That's Angela Guo.
She's a 17-year old senior at Adlai Stevenson High School
in Lincolnshire, Illinois.
And that adage she just cited, "You are what you eat",
that's been around since the 1800's.
People have known for a long time just how much food affects us.
But it's not just in term of long-term health,
but also short-term mood.
AG: Food really helps us maintain a safe clarity
and so eating healthier foods
has had a significant impact
on how well I can focus, as well as how quick I can think.
SG: She may only be in high school
but Angela has already made
the crucial connection between what she puts in her mouth
and how quickly that affects her brain.
She even believes that simple understanding
gave her a real advantage when she competed
in the National Science Olympiad tournament earlier this year.
Announcer: First place: National champions of the 2023 Science Olympiad
National Tournament: Adlai Stevenson High School of Illinois, let's go!!
SG: Now at this tournament earlier this year,
Angela and her team mates went up against thousands of students
from around the country.
They were competing in events highlighting chemistry,
and Earth science and biology.
But here is the thing: the entire time on Angela's team
you really didn't see much sugar around.
Instead, there were lots of healthy snacks.
AG: So, even at school, I'd bring my own lunch
and it's just that aspect of knowing what goes into your meals
is like really important. It kind of gives you peace of mind.
SG: The team did really well, and now as they prepare for more tournaments,
Angela, who's now is team captain, says, "Sure, they do study hard,
but what they eat, how they eat, that's also top of mind.
AG: When we do travel for Science Olympiad our coaches always makes sure that
our like bus is well stocked with
fruits and water.
SG: So Angela, seems pretty convinced that food helps her focus
and perform well academically.
Of course, that makes sense but the question today,
"What is the empirical evidence to support that and how does it work?
How exactly does food impact the brain?
And how do we really know when our brain is well nourished?"
Uma Naidoo: Sugar is not good for our brain.
But I also want people to understand we need sugar for our bodies
and our brain,
so it's where you get the sugar that's important.
SG: Look, a lot of people worry about how food influences the way we look,
how much weight we may gain -- I get that --
or the likelihood we're going to be high risk for diseases,
like diabetes and hypertension.
But even though it is harder to measure, food is also deeply connected
to how we feel in the moment and how well the brain functions.
Even as you listen to this podcast, your experience, right now,
is likely affected by what you ate earlier today.
So in this episode, I'm going to find out what's the best fuel for the brain,
what food we should avoid and what it really means
to have a well-nourished brain.
I'm Dr Sanjay Gupta, CNN's Chief medical correspondent
and this is Chasing life.
You know, I love hearing stories like Angela's.
They're so personal.
She's someone who's paying attention to her body and then she's figuring out
what makes her feel good and what it takes to do the activities she loves.
She's being really intentional with her nutrition
and that may save her from having health problems later in life
but it could help optimize her function now.
For me, food is an endless source of fascination.
The way that I think about it is this:
food is one of the most significant ways we allow our outside world to influence
and communicate with our inside world, the world inside of our body and our mind.
That is an awesome task. Food does that.
So, I thought today we would start with the basics.
We know that all food items have calories and calories are by definition energy
but, as you just heard, not all calories are created equal.
Some have more nutrients and do more to promote
overall health and well-being than others.
And that is especially true when it comes to the brain.
But the challenge again: that's hard to measure.
There is no brain scan or blood test that indicates that a particular food
promotes brain health.
So how do we really know?
How do you really know what works for you?
To find out, I return to someone whose work I really respect
both in the clinic and in the kitchen, someone who knows a lot
about this really intricate connection between food and brain health.
Uma Naidoo: if you want, you know,
your brain to really be optimized
lean into the foods you like, but the healthy versions of that.
SG: That' Dr Uma Naidoo; she's a nutritional psychiatrist.
Such a cool field. She's at Harvard medical school.
What she does is that she works with patients to improve
their mental health with the help of medication and food.
She's also a professional chef. She's the author of the books
"This is Your Brain on Food" and "Calm Your Mind with Food."
That one's going to be released later this year.
I should tell you, this is actually Dr Naidoo's second time on the show.
We spoke a few years ago about the broader concept of food as medicine.
And I was so fascinated by the conversation, so affected by it,
I asked her to come back and discuss how food impacts brain health specifically
and brain function.
I have long said that I think food
can be medicine, I also think just philosophically,
we consciously decide what signals we're going to give to the inside
of our body through food.
What the discussion has primarily focused on has been calories and energy,
and are you going overweight or not.
UN: Correct SG: So what are those foods that are both
good for the brain and can actually get to the brain.
UN: What I think is good, and I think what is helpful for people,
especially in the U.S., is that most people are consuming
the standard American diet
which, as you know, is called sad for a reason.
So any time that we can add those lipid grains and those actual whole foods
onto our plate, you know, and think about it that way and step away
a little bit from those processed fast foods
the healthier we are going to become as a country and I think that that is
because processed, ultra-processed foods are engineered, as you know,
to trick our brain.
So we eat more, we can't stop ourselves.
SG: Yeah, maybe I'm being audacious here in doing a podcast about how to achieve
a most optimally nourished brain.
As you correctly point out, we have a lot of work to do as a country to just
stop doing the bad things, maybe even before we can, uh, really, really focus
on the good things.
But the idea that food itself can be medicine and that can be quantified,
maybe even to the point, for someone like you, prescribed. Are we to the point,
with what we know, data-wise that food can be thought of prescriptive,
like we think of medicine?
UN: So I can't yet say to you, you need to eat ten blueberries over this amount
of time to improve your mood.
But what we do know from pretty large population-based studies that
if you were consuming extra-dark natural chocolate, that it improved depression
by 70% in over 12,000 participants. We know and it was in the candy bars
it was extra dark natural chocolate, which contains serotonin, magnesium,
um, some fiber. So we're not at a point where I can say this number
of blueberries in order to improve your mood,
but we are definitely emerging and growing in the scientific evidence
to be able to say you can construct a nutritional psychiatry plate
for your mood.
You can lean into those leafy green vegetable, 3-5 cups a day. Um, things like
arugula, spinach all contain folate. A low folate is associated with low mood.
So, we can give people guidance around it and really have them understanding that
food is moving in that direction.
SG: Now before we hear more food recommendations, I want to note something
that's, I think, really important here. the term "brain food."
That gets thrown around a lot. But, true brain food meaning any food that actually
impacts the function of the brain has to do something really important.
Its got to get past the blood-brain barrier.
Now, I don't want to get to wonky or technical, but I think it's important
for you to understand this point. Think of the blood-brain barrier as sort
of a body guard for the brain. This barrier prevents the entry of toxins
and pathogens and other molecules that could be harmful to the brain.
What it looks like is a system of blood vessels around the brain and the central
nervous system that sort of keep tight over which molecules and which
nutrients are allowed to get in.
UN: We know this, for example a lot of serotonin that's manufactured
in the gut and some in the brain but the more peripheral serotonin
doesn't cross over the blood brain barrier, so why not look at the foods
which are the precursors to the neurotransmitters, that then
interact with the gut microbes, I'm fascinated by the gut microbes.
The impact of the gut microbes and then they are able to cross over
the blood brain barrier and then form the substances that we need
in the brain. So I'm thinking about things we need like serotonin
and dopamine.
Let me hit pause here to explain a couple of things about
the gut. You probably know this but the gut contains trillions
of micro organisms. Bacteria, viruses, fungi. Collectively
they are referred to as the gut microbiome. Now these micro organisms
or microbes aren't just hanging out, they play an important role in
our health and they are constantly interacting with each other and
the rest of our body. While a few of those bacteria or pathogens are
potentially harmful, many are helpful. For example, what they will do is
they will break down food, they will then interact with our immune system,
they will synthesize vitamins and amino acids. And then they communicate with
other parts of the body. And that brings me to the second thing about the gut.
It is sometimes called the second brain, and I think that is a good title. And
that's because it uses many of the same chemicals and cells as the brain to do
its job and to communicate. In fact, there is an extraordinary amount
of cross talk between the gut and the brain. This makes the gut very
sensitive to emotions. Anger, fear, anxiety. Those things can cause
problems in the gut, vise versa. When the gut feels bad, it can
cause anxiety and other emotional issues. Understanding that might
give new meaning to phrases like, having butterflies in your stomach
when you're nervous. Or a quote, unquote gut feeling about a person or a situation.
This is why Doctor Niudu's work is so important and intriguing. She says,
"It is possible for food to impact how well our brain functions and how we
feel mentally." For example, some ultra processed foods have been linked to
disrupting the gut microbiome in a way that increases the risk for depression.
In contrast, whole foods such as bananas help trigger the production
of important chemicals in the gut such as the molecule, serotonin.
But again, remember this point much of the serotonin made
in the gut cannot cross the blood brain barrier and that is why
doctor Nidu says we need to focus on the precursors to
serotonin. Which can then cross more easily and be assembled
in the brain. Think of it like this, there are certain foods, for example,
ones that are rich in the amino acid tryptophan, that when eaten interact
with the gut microbiome. You with me?
And they become then the precursor or building blocks for serotonin.
And then these building blocks cross into the brain and get converted to
serotonin and exert their influence. The reason that I'm repeating this
so many times is because it is so important. What does
this all mean? Eating foods like, salmon or pineapple ones that
are loaded with tryptophan could help you feel happier and calmer.
That is a better definition of brain food.
UN: Another fascinating but odd research that is coming through is
several microbiome companies testing the microbiome. So they are looking
more deeply into what's in the microbiome and what you may need
to eat versus what I might need to eat because our microbiome is so
sort of unique. Whether you take that substance as a supplement or you
take it as a guidance around food, it can really help us more finely tune
the way that we can be eating.
SG: What level of evidence to you rely on to make your recommendations
when it comes to food? How do you collect that data and that evidence?
UN: So I try to keep current with whatever the new research is. For
example, there was a fascinating study done recently and all of these years
I've been encouraging my patients to eat foods that are rich in vitamin A.
And this particular study show that actually vitamin A rich foods are not
that helpful for mode of your brain health. Another interesting
study.
SG: What are those foods? Not to cut you off, but what kinds of foods are we
talking about?
UN: So, you know, eggs, milk, fish oils beef liver, tomatoes, red bell pepper.
Now does it mean that those foods are foods I will tell my patients not
to eat? Absolutely not. Uh like the new research about serotonin. It's
more that I would have emphasized eating vitamin A rich foods along with
that nutritional psychiatry plate. And I most importantly feel that
what's been my secret sources has been integrating the actual literature
the research and what I do clinically with seeing patients and
being able to monitor them you know and see how they do. Because I think,
please know that I come at this with great humility. I don't feel that
because whatever I've studied that you know, that I have the way to make
everyone feel better. But I can still see my patients improve.
SG: You know, when I was growing up um maybe you heard this as well
when you were a child. But there were certain foods that were
"brain foods." Fish for example was sort of considered a brain food.
UN: Nuts, almonds. SG: Nuts, you know. And my
mom would always you know "If you eat this, you'll be smart