WEBVTT 00:00:08.027 --> 00:00:10.791 Welcome to a new conference 00:00:10.791 --> 00:00:13.037 of the subject of ethic, legislation and profession. 00:00:13.037 --> 00:00:16.452 We have a very special guest: 00:00:16.452 --> 00:00:18.958 David Bravo, lawyer expert in intellectual property 00:00:18.958 --> 00:00:21.308 and, now, I leave you with him. 00:00:23.237 --> 00:00:27.770 Thank you, hello everyone, thank you 00:00:27.770 --> 00:00:30.174 for coming to the presentation. 00:00:30.174 --> 00:00:33.924 By the way, I loved the presentation 00:00:33.924 --> 00:00:37.196 made by the delegation of computer science students 00:00:37.196 --> 00:00:39.854 who posted in twitter that you 00:00:39.854 --> 00:00:42.235 do not miss the conference of someone 00:00:42.235 --> 00:00:44.709 who has a facebook group asking 00:00:44.709 --> 00:00:47.281 for him to be Minister of Culture. 00:00:47.281 --> 00:00:49.666 I am at the top as you can see my friends, 00:00:49.666 --> 00:00:52.018 my titles never end. 00:00:52.018 --> 00:00:54.610 Yes, I am basically a lawyer 00:00:54.610 --> 00:00:56.688 specialised in intellectual property and 00:00:56.688 --> 00:01:00.634 for ten years more or less I have been 00:01:00.634 --> 00:01:02.899 working in intellectual property 00:01:02.899 --> 00:01:05.401 issues and defending those who the 00:01:05.401 --> 00:01:07.070 content industry has called 00:01:07.070 --> 00:01:09.554 pyrates and we will later see with the 00:01:09.554 --> 00:01:11.439 results of the legal actions if they 00:01:11.439 --> 00:01:13.249 really are or not and also the legislative 00:01:13.249 --> 00:01:17.054 changes that have taken place about it. 00:01:17.054 --> 00:01:19.721 In this conference, 00:01:19.721 --> 00:01:23.556 we will adress the issue of the 00:01:23.556 --> 00:01:26.624 legal attacks or legal actions 00:01:26.624 --> 00:01:31.327 that have been exercised against the exchange 00:01:31.327 --> 00:01:34.628 of intellectual works through internet 00:01:34.628 --> 00:01:36.635 We will see what is the result of 00:01:36.635 --> 00:01:40.517 this legal actions and how it has 00:01:40.517 --> 00:01:42.609 changed the legislation after the 00:01:42.609 --> 00:01:46.977 sentence that has had a particular 00:01:46.977 --> 00:01:51.383 sign that one part of this strife 00:01:51.383 --> 00:01:53.894 did not like. As in every 00:01:53.894 --> 00:01:57.841 conflict, there are many ways to solve it. 00:01:57.841 --> 00:02:00.222 In this issue about intellectual 00:02:00.222 --> 00:02:02.957 property and in order to sum 00:02:02.957 --> 00:02:04.157 it up, 00:02:04.157 --> 00:02:06.860 I will say that in the issue 00:02:06.860 --> 00:02:10.783 of file transfer, there are two sides 00:02:10.783 --> 00:02:13.585 in conflict. One says 00:02:13.585 --> 00:02:14.841 that this 00:02:14.841 --> 00:02:18.734 can be stop and must be stop 00:02:18.734 --> 00:02:21.896 with a legislation that ought to be 00:02:21.896 --> 00:02:26.593 the most punitive possible in order to forbid 00:02:26.593 --> 00:02:29.928 certain mass and routine habits 00:02:29.928 --> 00:02:33.174 among citizens. And another 00:02:33.174 --> 00:02:36.227 group that believes that 00:02:36.227 --> 00:02:41.357 this apart from being bad, it is 00:02:41.357 --> 00:02:44.544 also impossible to put into practice and 00:02:44.544 --> 00:02:49.400 that we are speaking about trying to stop 00:02:49.400 --> 00:02:51.441 something that, technologically, is impossible 00:02:51.441 --> 00:02:54.866 to stop. Between this two 00:02:54.866 --> 00:02:58.127 movements, there are lots of persons who 00:02:58.127 --> 00:03:01.004 are in between and they take a bit of each position. 00:03:01.004 --> 00:03:02.484 Of course there is a wide 00:03:02.484 --> 00:03:04.590 variety of different possible positions, 00:03:04.590 --> 00:03:05.249 and, without doubt, 00:03:05.249 --> 00:03:08.355 it is the first one, the position that it is being impossed 00:03:08.355 --> 00:03:11.026 in all legislations worldwide. 00:03:11.026 --> 00:03:13.435 With a legislation that it is each day 00:03:13.435 --> 00:03:16.427 more restrictive about intellectual 00:03:16.427 --> 00:03:18.685 property rights and growing more and 00:03:18.685 --> 00:03:22.230 more the penalties for certain acts 00:03:22.230 --> 00:03:24.610 that are pretended to be illegal. 00:03:24.610 --> 00:03:27.640 In the legislation, sanctions are growing 00:03:27.655 --> 00:03:30.468 because it is understood that with 00:03:30.468 --> 00:03:33.381 the ones there were against routine acts 00:03:33.381 --> 00:03:35.610 like transfer of file on internet, it could not 00:03:35.610 --> 00:03:37.534 be stopped. As it was not stopped, 00:03:37.534 --> 00:03:40.392 penalties were increased again and again and 00:03:40.392 --> 00:03:41.968 again as it might be a point where it 00:03:41.968 --> 00:03:46.933 coul be stopped. 00:03:46.933 --> 00:03:52.279 The legal attack started in the U.S. 00:03:52.279 --> 00:03:54.516 back in the time of Napster; I do not 00:03:54.516 --> 00:03:57.367 know if you can remember it. It was 1999 00:03:57.367 --> 00:04:00.253 and Napster was in vogue, Metallica was the 00:04:00.253 --> 00:04:03.347 first group that pointed out at the 00:04:03.347 --> 00:04:05.894 users as being responsible of the 00:04:05.894 --> 00:04:08.431 possible illegalities and since then, since 00:04:08.431 --> 00:04:13.779 1999 and until now, the legal 00:04:13.779 --> 00:04:15.507 battle has not stopped. 00:04:15.507 --> 00:04:18.625 In the U.S. they decided to take legal actions. 00:04:18.625 --> 00:04:20.725 following this 00:04:20.725 --> 00:04:22.314 logic, after finishing with 00:04:22.314 --> 00:04:25.140 Napster, they continued by going 00:04:25.140 --> 00:04:28.707 after the individual users and 00:04:28.707 --> 00:04:30.957 inniciated legal actions against thousands of 00:04:30.957 --> 00:04:33.052 users that exchanged works through 00:04:33.052 --> 00:04:34.848 the Internet and if this action 00:04:34.848 --> 00:04:38.505 showed something, it was that this social 00:04:38.505 --> 00:04:42.046 reality we are talking about was 00:04:42.046 --> 00:04:44.487 much more heterogeneous than what it 00:04:44.487 --> 00:04:45.423 was thought. 00:04:45.423 --> 00:04:47.906 It was thoguht that this was a youthful 00:04:47.906 --> 00:04:50.071 matter or even a temporary 00:04:50.071 --> 00:04:52.467 situation, but when this legal actions 00:04:52.467 --> 00:04:55.045 started, the demanded made clear that 00:04:55.045 --> 00:04:57.345 they were a social mass that, 00:04:57.345 --> 00:04:58.737 although the majority were 00:04:58.737 --> 00:05:00.264 young persons who have grown up with 00:05:00.264 --> 00:05:02.088 the new technologies, it reached to 00:05:02.088 --> 00:05:05.433 all social backgrounds, independently 00:05:05.433 --> 00:05:06.694 of age or social class. 00:05:06.694 --> 00:05:09.559 It was exposed for 00:05:09.559 --> 00:05:12.427 example by situation of Brianna Lahara, 00:05:12.427 --> 00:05:14.683 a twelve years old girl that was 00:05:14.683 --> 00:05:16.219 sue in the U.S. because she 00:05:16.219 --> 00:05:18.500 downloaded music from Internet. It 00:05:18.500 --> 00:05:20.681 was curious how they put the 00:05:20.681 --> 00:05:24.796 top for the compensation. In the 00:05:24.796 --> 00:05:25.754 U.S. 00:05:25.754 --> 00:05:28.789 the plaintiff was RIAA which represents the 00:05:28.789 --> 00:05:30.984 record industry in America 00:05:30.984 --> 00:05:33.272 and what they did was that when 00:05:33.272 --> 00:05:35.323 it came to light the scandal that a kid 00:05:35.323 --> 00:05:37.154 was being sued by the RIAA, the RIAA 00:05:37.154 --> 00:05:39.672 stood up and announced they were going 00:05:39.672 --> 00:05:41.678 to solve it out of cort with 00:05:41.678 --> 00:05:46.135 an agreement, so they asked how much money 00:05:46.135 --> 00:05:48.436 did Brianna LaHara have, as she is a 00:05:48.436 --> 00:05:50.548 twelve years old girl, so they could reach an agreement. 00:05:50.548 --> 00:05:54.632 Of course, the parents and the girl replied that 00:05:54.632 --> 00:05:56.188 she had nothing because she was a kid 00:05:56.188 --> 00:05:59.160 so they asked if the girl had 00:05:59.160 --> 00:06:00.830 any savings for the university 00:06:00.830 --> 00:06:03.198 as you know that in the U.S. it is 00:06:03.198 --> 00:06:07.464 usual. The parents answered affirmatively, 00:06:07.464 --> 00:06:09.171 she had three thousand dollars they 00:06:09.171 --> 00:06:10.933 were depositing in a bank account in 00:06:10.935 --> 00:06:14.440 her name for her university when she 00:06:14.452 --> 00:06:18.554 grows up. So they put three thousands dollars 00:06:18.554 --> 00:06:20.184 as the amount they demanded for an 00:06:20.184 --> 00:06:21.768 out of cort agreement. That way, 00:06:21.768 --> 00:06:23.568 they sended a clear message, 00:06:23.568 --> 00:06:25.367 they were going to ask for all 00:06:25.367 --> 00:06:27.967 the money you had witohut any 00:06:27.967 --> 00:06:29.180 distinction. 00:06:29.180 --> 00:06:31.190 Related to age, another paradigmatic 00:06:31.190 --> 00:06:32.996 case refering to age, so we 00:06:32.996 --> 00:06:34.507 can see the heterogenic group 00:06:34.507 --> 00:06:36.009 we are talking about, is the case of 00:06:36.009 --> 00:06:37.924 Gertrude Walton a grandmother tha surprisingly 00:06:37.924 --> 00:06:41.186 was sued for downloading rap music, which 00:06:41.186 --> 00:06:44.613 is strange. It was a weird situation that was 00:06:44.613 --> 00:06:45.613 shown in the press, 00:06:45.613 --> 00:06:46.962 a eighty-three years old grandmother 00:06:46.962 --> 00:06:50.516 downloading rap music, her niece 00:06:50.516 --> 00:06:52.412 claimed that it was all 00:06:52.412 --> 00:06:54.748 absolutely impossible, that her 00:06:54.748 --> 00:06:58.250 grandmother had never downloaded rap music 00:06:58.250 --> 00:07:01.745 and she laid on the table two legal 00:07:01.745 --> 00:07:05.178 solid reasonings so that the demand 00:07:05.178 --> 00:07:06.863 ended in nothing. First one was to say 00:07:06.863 --> 00:07:09.764 that her grandmother never liked rap music 00:07:09.764 --> 00:07:12.541 and the second one was that in the moment 00:07:12.541 --> 00:07:14.858 of the incident, her grandmother was 00:07:14.858 --> 00:07:18.215 dead. 00:07:18.215 --> 00:07:21.120 It meant she had an alibi, 00:07:23.986 --> 00:07:26.595 so the legal action 00:07:26.595 --> 00:07:28.768 was stopped, although the message left 00:07:28.776 --> 00:07:31.539 was clear. Identically, this 00:07:31.539 --> 00:07:33.115 legal actions have spread from 00:07:33.115 --> 00:07:35.467 the U.S. to the rest of the globe 00:07:35.467 --> 00:07:38.431 including Spain where legal actions 00:07:38.431 --> 00:07:40.382 have been inicaited against 00:07:40.382 --> 00:07:42.060 absolutely all actors that 00:07:42.060 --> 00:07:43.640 take part in the exchange 00:07:43.640 --> 00:07:45.448 of files through Internet: 00:07:45.448 --> 00:07:47.574 Users, link pages to this 00:07:47.574 --> 00:07:49.378 files as we will see later and 00:07:49.378 --> 00:07:52.540 even the software developers that 00:07:52.540 --> 00:07:55.244 created the P2P program that allows 00:07:55.244 --> 00:07:57.466 the exchange of files, not to 00:07:57.466 --> 00:08:00.220 mention also those who host the 00:08:00.220 --> 00:08:04.200 contents. As you all know the famous direct 00:08:04.200 --> 00:08:07.230 download page of Megaupload that had legal 00:08:07.230 --> 00:08:09.167 actions taken against them. Nonetheless 00:08:09.167 --> 00:08:11.454 in Spain there had also been legal 00:08:11.454 --> 00:08:13.247 actions against the big content 00:08:13.247 --> 00:08:15.036 containers and one of them for 00:08:15.036 --> 00:08:18.041 example is Youtube which in the end is 00:08:18.041 --> 00:08:20.194 nothing more than intermediary that what it 00:08:20.194 --> 00:08:22.210 does is to host content uploaded by its 00:08:22.210 --> 00:08:24.834 own users. 00:08:27.409 --> 00:08:29.300 Of course, in this issue of 00:08:29.300 --> 00:08:32.111 the intellectual property as you see 00:08:32.111 --> 00:08:35.601 there are basically two options and 00:08:35.601 --> 00:08:38.537 between them which are 00:08:38.537 --> 00:08:41.460 either we go to the restriction of this 00:08:41.460 --> 00:08:42.999 habits through the legislative way 00:08:42.999 --> 00:08:45.175 or we accept that this is a reality 00:08:45.175 --> 00:08:47.368 impossible to stop in practice and 00:08:47.368 --> 00:08:48.637 we look for an alternative way 00:08:48.637 --> 00:08:50.238 of remuneration with new business 00:08:50.238 --> 00:08:52.247 models adapted to this new 00:08:52.247 --> 00:08:55.207 reality in those two possible 00:08:55.207 --> 00:08:57.502 solutions among many other. 00:08:57.502 --> 00:09:00.263 Among them we found that the 00:09:02.196 --> 00:09:04.405 industry, previous to legal 00:09:04.405 --> 00:09:07.243 actions and previous to any legal 00:09:07.243 --> 00:09:09.207 reform, as it always is usually done 00:09:09.207 --> 00:09:11.810 and in fact it is called in legal 00:09:11.810 --> 00:09:13.757 doctrine, prelegislative stage. This 00:09:13.757 --> 00:09:15.665 phase has a concrete name in the 00:09:15.665 --> 00:09:18.028 legal doctrine, what it happens always, 00:09:18.028 --> 00:09:21.265 when there is a group of power that wants 00:09:21.265 --> 00:09:24.090 to change a legislation, what they make is 00:09:24.090 --> 00:09:26.484 to present to the legislator a 00:09:26.484 --> 00:09:28.728 reality that recquires of his 00:09:28.728 --> 00:09:32.772 intervention. This is the reason for what there is 00:09:32.772 --> 00:09:34.058 made the 00:09:34.058 --> 00:09:35.631 famous awareness campaigns, those 00:09:35.631 --> 00:09:37.493 awareness campaigns that appear 00:09:37.493 --> 00:09:41.698 in the cinema, in T.V., in the 00:09:41.698 --> 00:09:44.915 radio or even at schools. What they 00:09:44.915 --> 00:09:47.257 make is to present to the legislator a 00:09:47.257 --> 00:09:49.834 reality, a reality painted in a 00:09:49.834 --> 00:09:51.947 specific way, serious 00:09:51.947 --> 00:09:53.753 enough so their intervention it is 00:09:53.753 --> 00:09:54.900 needed. 00:09:54.900 --> 00:09:59.169 Well, in Spain we have passed it and 00:09:59.169 --> 00:10:01.385 we are still in it because it is made 00:10:01.385 --> 00:10:04.152 simultaneously or it never ends that 00:10:04.152 --> 00:10:05.448 awareness phase 00:10:07.148 --> 00:10:10.588 that started officially in 2005. A year 00:10:12.113 --> 00:10:16.745 before, in 2004, in the 21th of June that 00:10:16.745 --> 00:10:18.387 it is the international day for music. 00:10:18.387 --> 00:10:21.304 They went to see the fromer president 00:10:21.304 --> 00:10:24.431 Zapatero, they were a variety of musicians, that 00:10:24.431 --> 00:10:26.828 for me, they are the, probably, less 00:10:26.828 --> 00:10:29.365 representative of the music world, they 00:10:29.365 --> 00:10:31.545 are the best selling artists, probably 00:10:31.545 --> 00:10:35.174 those who less represent the music 00:10:35.174 --> 00:10:37.072 sector. They went there and 00:10:37.072 --> 00:10:38.423 told Zapatero that he had to do 00:10:38.423 --> 00:10:40.386 something about the downloads issue. 00:10:40.386 --> 00:10:42.583 from the perspective of repression, 00:10:42.583 --> 00:10:44.500 meaning, from the perspective of this 00:10:44.500 --> 00:10:47.740 political solution and no other. 00:10:48.814 --> 00:10:50.930 Went there for example Alejandro Sanz and 00:10:50.930 --> 00:10:53.274 David Bisbal, who is now sadly 00:10:53.274 --> 00:10:55.560 present due to what he did 00:10:55.577 --> 00:11:00.957 to Chenoa. And when Zapatero listened to 00:11:00.957 --> 00:11:04.009 the laboral difficulties of David Bisbal and how 00:11:04.009 --> 00:11:05.791 he does not have a stone heart, he 00:11:05.791 --> 00:11:09.053 told them that he was going to intervene and in the year 00:11:09.053 --> 00:11:12.488 2005 the antipiracy plan was adopted. 00:11:12.488 --> 00:11:13.978 The antipiracy plan, what 00:11:13.978 --> 00:11:15.375 it basically did was to 00:11:15.375 --> 00:11:16.995 institutionalised as any possible 00:11:16.995 --> 00:11:21.857 way the repression. In order to 00:11:21.857 --> 00:11:23.858 explain what ought to be done with 00:11:23.858 --> 00:11:25.450 the issue of the intellectual property, 00:11:25.450 --> 00:11:27.479 far from other persons like Stallman 00:11:27.479 --> 00:11:29.972 or Lessig who have a vision about 00:11:29.972 --> 00:11:31.244 intellectual property 00:11:31.244 --> 00:11:33.366 much more opened, the only possible 00:11:33.366 --> 00:11:35.623 vision and the one to be translated 00:11:35.623 --> 00:11:38.432 from all sides was that 00:11:38.432 --> 00:11:40.354 intellectual property must be 00:11:40.354 --> 00:11:42.224 restricted, it means, repress 00:11:42.224 --> 00:11:45.538 this behaviors. That solution was 00:11:45.538 --> 00:11:47.631 released in all communication 00:11:47.631 --> 00:11:49.319 media as only possible way. 00:11:49.319 --> 00:11:52.370 in fact, the antipiracy commission of the 00:11:52.370 --> 00:11:55.017 Culture Ministry, when talks about 00:11:55.017 --> 00:11:56.784 the campaigns calling for 00:11:56.784 --> 00:11:58.931 awareness, it says that last 00:11:58.931 --> 00:12:01.276 campaign, when talking about the last, 00:12:01.276 --> 00:12:03.416 it said that it should be maintained, this campaign, 00:12:03.416 --> 00:12:06.185 for a long time, so it could be 00:12:06.185 --> 00:12:10.020 interiorised by the citizens and that 00:12:10.020 --> 00:12:11.678 the plan of the media in the campaign had 00:12:11.678 --> 00:12:14.303 as objective, to reach the highest number of 00:12:14.303 --> 00:12:16.033 persons, an addecuated number of times 00:12:16.033 --> 00:12:19.434 so that the message can penetrate. It means, 00:12:19.434 --> 00:12:21.619 when we are talking in these 00:12:21.619 --> 00:12:24.612 terms, when we talked in these terms, 00:12:24.612 --> 00:12:26.237 that the message has to be repeated a 00:12:26.237 --> 00:12:28.016 proper number of times so the message 00:12:28.016 --> 00:12:30.120 penetrates. We are far away from 00:12:30.120 --> 00:12:32.051 awareness campaigns and we are 00:12:32.051 --> 00:12:33.873 under pure propaganda and we are talking 00:12:33.873 --> 00:12:35.408 about political propaganda. 00:12:35.408 --> 00:12:38.160 We are talking about sending a 00:12:38.160 --> 00:12:41.283 political message about a possibility to solve 00:12:41.283 --> 00:12:43.148 the problem from a range of different solutions 00:12:43.148 --> 00:12:46.137 and saying that it is the only possible 00:12:46.137 --> 00:12:50.152 solution. This campaigns are made in all 00:12:50.152 --> 00:12:52.999 situations and like two week ago, it 00:12:52.999 --> 00:12:54.805 was voted in the culture commission a PNL 00:12:54.805 --> 00:12:58.606 where it was propose that these 00:12:58.606 --> 00:13:04.027 campaigns were taken to schools, 00:13:04.452 --> 00:13:07.181 something that has previously ocurred, because 00:13:07.181 --> 00:13:08.595 they considered us to be 00:13:08.595 --> 00:13:10.405 the lost generation as they call it. 00:13:10.405 --> 00:13:12.831 This is to say to people that grew up 00:13:12.831 --> 00:13:15.100 in a certain way, that has a 00:13:15.100 --> 00:13:17.631 concrete way fo thinking and a 00:13:17.648 --> 00:13:19.412 immovable way to make things and 00:13:19.412 --> 00:13:22.475 that what it had to be done was to go to 00:13:22.475 --> 00:13:24.549 kids in schools so that from 00:13:24.549 --> 00:13:26.091 the beginning 00:13:26.091 --> 00:13:28.275 they think this certain way from 00:13:28.275 --> 00:13:31.240 the schools. In the Commission of 00:13:31.240 --> 00:13:33.579 Culture of the 00:13:33.579 --> 00:13:36.064 Congress, it was voted a PNL where it 00:13:36.064 --> 00:13:38.330 talked about taking this awareness 00:13:38.330 --> 00:13:40.145 campaigns to schools and it was 00:13:40.145 --> 00:13:44.194 voted favorably by the groups with 00:13:44.194 --> 00:13:46.365 the abstention 00:13:46.365 --> 00:13:49.888 for me indefensible of Podemos that 00:13:49.888 --> 00:13:51.764 voted 'No' in the 00:13:51.764 --> 00:13:54.909 pass legislature, but this campaign 00:13:54.909 --> 00:13:59.063 we can see is not only directed to 00:13:59.063 --> 00:14:00.636 children because we have seen 00:14:00.636 --> 00:14:03.651 each Christmas ther is a campaign of the 00:14:03.651 --> 00:14:05.380 so called for awareness 00:14:05.380 --> 00:14:07.207 i do not know if you remember, it was 00:14:07.207 --> 00:14:09.061 called "Defend your culture", it had 00:14:09.061 --> 00:14:10.613 a slogan specially 00:14:10.613 --> 00:14:15.098 fool, the slogan was "If you are legal, you are 00:14:15.098 --> 00:14:19.442 legal" seriously, I do not know who designed 00:14:19.442 --> 00:14:21.232 the campaign. They can get back the money 00:14:21.232 --> 00:14:23.820 yet but it was that and it had 00:14:23.820 --> 00:14:28.351 a part of contest, really weird, 00:14:28.351 --> 00:14:31.233 where what they had to do was to send 00:14:31.233 --> 00:14:35.124 a message saying how did it affect you 00:14:35.124 --> 00:14:37.035 the so called piracy and they, 00:14:37.035 --> 00:14:41.065 three experts of culture from the Ministry, 00:14:41.065 --> 00:14:43.569 looked at the messages and they three, 00:14:43.569 --> 00:14:47.323 together, they decided which one was 00:14:47.323 --> 00:14:50.215 the best of the month, and published and give 00:14:50.215 --> 00:14:52.986 a present that were two tickets for the 00:14:52.986 --> 00:14:55.062 Prado Museum, which as a git is not 00:14:55.062 --> 00:14:57.326 a big thing, but it could be use for resae or 00:14:57.326 --> 00:14:59.402 whatever. 00:14:59.402 --> 00:15:02.721 That was the gift the contest had. 00:15:02.721 --> 00:15:05.639 So the people started sending 00:15:05.639 --> 00:15:07.265 their message about how they were affected 00:15:07.265 --> 00:15:09.412 by piracy and as we are hearing 00:15:09.412 --> 00:15:11.967 so many strange thing for the issue 00:15:11.967 --> 00:15:15.599 of piracy that the poor moderator 00:15:15.599 --> 00:15:17.632 they had in there in the 00:15:17.632 --> 00:15:19.625 web page was unabke to distinguish 00:15:19.625 --> 00:15:21.528 when they were being serious and 00:15:21.528 --> 00:15:23.705 when they were joking because 00:15:23.705 --> 00:15:25.055 for example, Antonio Guisasola, 00:15:25.055 --> 00:15:29.093 president of Promusicae, it means, the 00:15:29.093 --> 00:15:31.618 we could say 00:15:31.618 --> 00:15:33.221 boss of record industry 00:15:33.221 --> 00:15:37.160 here in Spain, says things like that 00:15:37.160 --> 00:15:39.502 discographies are so 00:15:39.511 --> 00:15:41.677 worried about the internet 00:15:41.677 --> 00:15:43.810 download issue that even the 00:15:43.810 --> 00:15:45.579 street sellers went to Promusica to protest 00:15:45.579 --> 00:15:49.273 for internet downloads, It means that 00:15:49.273 --> 00:15:52.752 in the history of Guisaola seems 00:15:52.752 --> 00:15:54.823 an episode of the "Chanante Hour" is that 00:15:54.823 --> 00:15:57.225 street sellers went to speak with 00:15:57.225 --> 00:15:59.606 Guisaola to tell him "I cannot sell 00:15:59.606 --> 00:16:02.264 pirated discs because they are downloaded from 00:16:02.264 --> 00:16:04.238 Internet" complaining to Guisaola, it means 00:16:04.238 --> 00:16:07.796 if that street seller exists, he is God 00:16:07.796 --> 00:16:09.990 I want him as minister now then. 00:16:09.990 --> 00:16:13.747 Clearly it cost the moderator 00:16:13.747 --> 00:16:15.552 a lot of work to distinguish when 00:16:15.552 --> 00:16:18.215 they were serious and when the 00:16:18.215 --> 00:16:19.849 were joking 00:16:19.849 --> 00:16:22.413 and then it happened that there were 00:16:22.413 --> 00:16:26.366 many jokes and later, "Forocoches" joined 00:16:26.366 --> 00:16:30.459 the game and said "I will try to 00:16:30.459 --> 00:16:33.003 send this message, let's see if it 00:16:33.003 --> 00:16:34.239 is published" 00:16:34.239 --> 00:16:36.245 And clearly, lots did not pass 00:16:36.245 --> 00:16:38.553 because they were too obvious and said I will 00:16:38.553 --> 00:16:42.826 try to send this one and wrote in the forum "Let's 00:16:42.826 --> 00:16:45.872 see, I will say what I was told in 00:16:45.872 --> 00:16:47.903 scholl, I enter and downloaded films 00:16:47.903 --> 00:16:50.566 I got infected by virus and I had to 00:16:50.566 --> 00:16:53.719 change the CPU because virus 00:16:53.719 --> 00:16:59.440 enter the computer processing unit, do not download 00:16:59.440 --> 00:17:01.499 anything because people put bad things 00:17:01.499 --> 00:17:04.289 inside the files and steak your 00:17:04.289 --> 00:17:09.445 data, your photos, your "rotodos" and everything, 00:17:09.445 --> 00:17:18.593 it's legal easily' how was going to pass 00:17:18.593 --> 00:17:21.101 that with a virus that enter the processing unit, 00:17:21.101 --> 00:17:24.483 well it passed. 00:17:24.483 --> 00:17:26.401 It was published in the web page as 00:17:26.401 --> 00:17:27.808 hundreds of similar comments but even 00:17:27.808 --> 00:17:31.479 more, the tree experts from 00:17:31.479 --> 00:17:33.070 the Culture Ministry thought that this 00:17:33.070 --> 00:17:36.034 comment was the best of the month and they 00:17:36.034 --> 00:17:40.076 give him the prize with the two tickets to 00:17:40.076 --> 00:17:43.332 the Prado Museum 00:17:43.332 --> 00:17:45.456 When I saw what had been 00:17:45.456 --> 00:17:48.816 chosen as best, I said I would 00:17:48.816 --> 00:17:50.681 find the one that wrote it and 00:17:50.681 --> 00:17:52.847 I put the message in Google, 00:17:52.847 --> 00:17:55.358 rapidly "Forocoches" "ha ha ha ha" everyone 00:17:55.358 --> 00:17:58.144 laughing and I said, the have sneak them and 00:17:58.144 --> 00:18:01.610 I posted it in my blog and I said, 'lets see' 00:18:01.610 --> 00:18:03.551 the message that won was a joke, 00:18:03.551 --> 00:18:06.306 and I am afraid that this three experts in 00:18:06.306 --> 00:18:08.593 intellectual property are the ones that 00:18:08.593 --> 00:18:09.937 are doing our laws and they did not 00:18:09.937 --> 00:18:13.494 realised it, this is alarming. And then 00:18:13.494 --> 00:18:15.443 they called me from "Público", from the 00:18:15.443 --> 00:18:17.953 newspaper, and the told me 00:18:17.953 --> 00:18:20.694 ' I had some declarations about what 00:18:20.694 --> 00:18:25.764 you have uncovered about the general 00:18:25.764 --> 00:18:27.873 Director of Policy and Cultural 00:18:27.873 --> 00:18:29.864 Industry explaining this situation' 00:18:29.864 --> 00:18:31.915 So i got scared a bit, because I may 00:18:31.915 --> 00:18:34.621 have put my foot in it or something and I said 'well 00:18:34.621 --> 00:18:36.500 tell me what are the declarations and 00:18:36.500 --> 00:18:38.434 I reply them'. He said that 00:18:38.434 --> 00:18:41.212 the declarations were 'The only thing that 00:18:41.212 --> 00:18:43.016 demonstrates that this message has won 00:18:43.016 --> 00:18:47.072 is that the system is transparent, there is no 00:18:47.072 --> 00:18:49.720 censorship and that we are dedicated to 00:18:49.720 --> 00:18:55.258 control web pages' 'Ok, yes 00:18:55.258 --> 00:18:59.426 it does demonstrate that and also demonstrates 00:18:59.426 --> 00:19:00.995 that they have been sneaked until it has 00:19:00.995 --> 00:19:03.112 reached the top, you are telling me that 00:19:03.112 --> 00:19:07.443 there are three experts in the ministry of 00:19:07.443 --> 00:19:09.196 culture that thoguht that virus 00:19:09.196 --> 00:19:11.000 get into the processing unit and steal your 00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:14.790 "rotodos" then we are lost' 00:19:14.790 --> 00:19:18.044 The pont is that when I start reading 00:19:18.044 --> 00:19:21.725 what the comission says about the 00:19:21.725 --> 00:19:23.931 campaigns, they explain something that got 00:19:23.931 --> 00:19:25.500 my attention and it is that communication 00:19:25.500 --> 00:19:28.659 media insert this messages in 00:19:28.659 --> 00:19:30.408 their advertisement and the 00:19:30.408 --> 00:19:34.115 majority do it for free, 00:19:34.115 --> 00:19:36.124 it means that Telecinco, Antena3, the private 00:19:36.124 --> 00:19:38.177 T.V. channels, take this campaigns 00:19:38.177 --> 00:19:39.879 elaborated by the Ministry of Culture and 00:19:39.879 --> 00:19:43.172 they put them in their schedule for free and 00:19:43.172 --> 00:19:47.395 it is normal inside the 00:19:47.395 --> 00:19:49.750 enviroment that is created when talking 00:19:49.750 --> 00:19:52.623 about new technologies in general, not 00:19:52.623 --> 00:19:53.954 just Internet. 00:19:53.954 --> 00:19:55.605 I do not know if you have seen how the 00:19:55.605 --> 00:19:57.085 media treats regularly all 00:19:57.085 --> 00:19:58.599 that has somethiong to do with new 00:19:58.599 --> 00:20:00.237 technologies. It is always 00:20:00.237 --> 00:20:02.291 with a prism or almost always something 00:20:02.291 --> 00:20:05.779 negative, simply because internet and 00:20:05.779 --> 00:20:07.799 new techonologies are direct 00:20:07.799 --> 00:20:09.756 competitors to the media 00:20:09.756 --> 00:20:11.348 like television, press or radio. 00:20:11.348 --> 00:20:17.428 I had a time when Google News 00:20:17.428 --> 00:20:18.720 existed, 00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:21.855 before going away from Spain due to the 00:20:21.855 --> 00:20:23.491 AEDE canon that we will talk later if you 00:20:23.491 --> 00:20:26.463 wish to, so I search on Google News 00:20:26.463 --> 00:20:30.665 concrete words, I searched Internet 00:20:30.665 --> 00:20:32.302 or web or any other word that 00:20:32.302 --> 00:20:34.857 was related to new 00:20:34.857 --> 00:20:37.996 technologies in order to look what results 00:20:37.996 --> 00:20:39.610 the media brought back and 00:20:39.610 --> 00:20:41.690 the prism that was given to the 00:20:41.690 --> 00:20:46.470 headlines. When I saw that, it 00:20:46.470 --> 00:20:48.279 looked pretty normal that media 00:20:48.279 --> 00:20:50.645 welcomed everything 00:20:50.645 --> 00:20:53.236 that criticise their way of doing 00:20:53.236 --> 00:20:57.798 things, that precisely take their 00:20:57.798 --> 00:21:00.648 audience with the headlines I 00:21:00.648 --> 00:21:02.848 found and anyone could do the 00:21:02.848 --> 00:21:06.036 same proof with any other 00:21:06.036 --> 00:21:07.957 searcher. There were headliines like 00:21:07.957 --> 00:21:13.054 the followings, "Terror in the web", "Danger 00:21:13.054 --> 00:21:17.048 in Internet", "Alcohol and drugs as well 00:21:17.048 --> 00:21:20.041 as Internet may suposse a big threat 00:21:20.041 --> 00:21:22.945 to the youth", 00:21:22.945 --> 00:21:25.706 "Internet can cause neuronal 00:21:25.706 --> 00:21:28.867 damages", "surfing the internet there is 00:21:28.867 --> 00:21:32.292 higher risk of adultery", 00:21:32.292 --> 00:21:34.836 "Jennifer Aniston leaved his boyfriend due 00:21:34.836 --> 00:21:37.274 to Internet's fault", 00:21:37.274 --> 00:21:39.631 "Americans abandon their 00:21:39.631 --> 00:21:44.259 friends and sex for their life on Internet" 00:21:44.259 --> 00:21:46.350 "The U.S. look out Twitter for 00:21:46.350 --> 00:21:50.005 its posible use with terrorist objectives", 00:21:50.005 --> 00:21:56.500 "A boy is murdered by his gameboy". 00:21:56.500 --> 00:21:58.062 This last I had to read it 00:21:58.062 --> 00:22:01.477 I could not leave it just with the headline 00:22:01.477 --> 00:22:04.135 when I read it, it resulted that the 00:22:04.135 --> 00:22:06.279 kid had a tragic accident when 00:22:06.279 --> 00:22:08.688 he went out of the swimming pool and took 00:22:08.688 --> 00:22:11.373 the gameboy which its battery was plugged 00:22:11.373 --> 00:22:13.280 in and he was electrocuted. 00:22:13.280 --> 00:22:14.809 The gameboy itself did not do 00:22:14.809 --> 00:22:19.069 nothing, it was the water and the electricity 00:22:19.069 --> 00:22:21.305 basically what intervened but in here 00:22:21.305 --> 00:22:23.600 they decided that it was the gameboy the one 00:22:23.600 --> 00:22:25.752 that had murdered him and sended that 00:22:25.752 --> 00:22:27.998 message. the next headline 00:22:27.998 --> 00:22:29.484 is clearer and said "Internet kills 00:22:29.484 --> 00:22:33.995 you" 00:22:33.995 --> 00:22:36.116 In here I did not even read it, it did not 00:22:36.266 --> 00:22:37.748 matter. 00:22:37.748 --> 00:22:39.633 "Pork flu propagated also through 00:22:39.633 --> 00:22:41.603 Internet" 00:22:41.603 --> 00:22:46.416 "Regular use of Internet generates 00:22:46.416 --> 00:22:49.560 depression and isolation", "Xenophobia 00:22:49.560 --> 00:22:52.368 dances on Internet" 00:22:52.368 --> 00:22:55.686 "Hitler in Internet", "Cruelty of the 00:22:55.686 --> 00:22:58.098 internet users" 00:22:58.098 --> 00:23:00.864 "Google opens strongboxes", "Learned to 00:23:00.864 --> 00:23:04.073 kill thanks to Google", "His computer 00:23:04.073 --> 00:23:10.889 can be a zombi", "Internet puts on weight" and "My 00:23:10.889 --> 00:23:13.754 daughter got pregnant and 00:23:13.754 --> 00:23:18.673 its Internet fault" the one of Internet 00:23:18.673 --> 00:23:20.211 puts on weight, I love it because it fits 00:23:20.211 --> 00:23:24.203 inside a patron I have seen before. 00:23:24.203 --> 00:23:26.808 There was a study, I cannot know which 00:23:26.808 --> 00:23:28.661 country that gave for another headline, it 00:23:28.661 --> 00:23:30.282 had to do with videogames. 00:23:30.282 --> 00:23:32.721 The headline was "Videogames create 00:23:32.721 --> 00:23:35.514 fat and violent kids" and not 00:23:35.514 --> 00:23:38.882 only they put on weight, evenmore, they also 00:23:38.882 --> 00:23:40.400 turned you violent. Of course the 00:23:40.400 --> 00:23:42.563 alarmism is clear, there is nothing that 00:23:42.563 --> 00:23:45.978 frightens more than a gang of angry 00:23:45.978 --> 00:23:49.033 fat guys and when you read that 00:23:49.033 --> 00:23:51.139 study, they justified it 00:23:51.139 --> 00:23:53.085 with the typical, that 00:23:53.085 --> 00:23:55.136 videogames create violent kids which 00:23:55.136 --> 00:23:56.842 we have read that before in other places 00:23:56.842 --> 00:23:59.443 and about the "fats" they justified it because 00:23:59.443 --> 00:24:02.314 as they played videogames they did not play any sport 00:24:02.314 --> 00:24:04.476 and that is why it fatten. There are other 00:24:04.476 --> 00:24:06.130 activities like lecture and we have 00:24:06.130 --> 00:24:08.070 not read anywhere a headline that said 00:24:08.070 --> 00:24:09.696 that reading puts on weight, however 00:24:09.696 --> 00:24:11.462 in here it looked great and the put it. 00:24:11.462 --> 00:24:14.143 The best one with any doubt, that 00:24:14.143 --> 00:24:16.384 reflects how I think the way 00:24:16.384 --> 00:24:19.992 now clear about how it is talked about 00:24:19.992 --> 00:24:21.303 new technologies in the media 00:24:21.303 --> 00:24:23.117 is the famous case of the 00:24:23.117 --> 00:24:25.337 cannibal of Rothenburg. I do not know if 00:24:25.337 --> 00:24:27.910 you know it but it is a great case 00:24:27.910 --> 00:24:31.017 in order to see how the 00:24:31.017 --> 00:24:33.094 media talks about new 00:24:33.094 --> 00:24:35.362 technologies. Barely you give them 00:24:35.362 --> 00:24:37.401 a gap where a new technology 00:24:37.401 --> 00:24:39.560 has participated in any part of a 00:24:39.560 --> 00:24:43.273 story, more or less truculent. The case 00:24:43.273 --> 00:24:46.396 of the cannibal of Rothenburg is easy 00:24:46.396 --> 00:24:49.395 to explain, it has no mistery. A guy 00:24:49.395 --> 00:24:51.651 wrote in a forum a sentence that said 00:24:51.651 --> 00:24:55.354 "I search a good looking man that 00:24:55.354 --> 00:24:58.194 wants to be eaten" 00:24:58.194 --> 00:25:00.500 In his languague I guess it sounded better. 00:25:00.500 --> 00:25:02.744 That is what was written, a good looking 00:25:02.744 --> 00:25:05.264 man that wanted to be eaten, and an 00:25:05.264 --> 00:25:07.318 engineer that was reading the forum 00:25:07.318 --> 00:25:09.182 read it and said "Look I am 00:25:09.182 --> 00:25:13.503 interested" and contacted the cannibal 00:25:13.503 --> 00:25:17.188 of Rothenburg who eated him. 00:25:17.188 --> 00:25:19.280 There is no last moment turnaround, it is 00:25:19.280 --> 00:25:22.969 not Shyamalan dear friends. In here it ended how it 00:25:22.969 --> 00:25:25.166 looked like. He ate him. 00:25:25.166 --> 00:25:26.711 Then they took the cannibal 00:25:26.711 --> 00:25:29.201 of Rothenburg to jail. 00:25:29.201 --> 00:25:30.797 What has this to do with new 00:25:30.797 --> 00:25:32.466 technologies? The guy ate him 00:25:32.466 --> 00:25:35.082 analogically on the table. At 00:25:35.082 --> 00:25:39.083 first, nothing. but it was announced in a forum 00:25:39.083 --> 00:25:41.895 If it had been announced in "Segunda Mano" or 00:25:41.895 --> 00:25:45.646 I don't know through door-to-door, 00:25:45.646 --> 00:25:48.230 surely the way to get in 00:25:48.230 --> 00:25:50.187 touch with the engineer would have 00:25:50.187 --> 00:25:52.875 matter less than the fact that at the 00:25:52.875 --> 00:25:54.600 end, a guy ate another one like if 00:25:54.600 --> 00:25:57.332 it was a chocolate bun. However in here 00:25:57.332 --> 00:25:59.956 the fact that they got in touch in a forum, 00:25:59.956 --> 00:26:01.709 they had the issue linked to 00:26:01.709 --> 00:26:04.992 new technologies somehow and 00:26:04.992 --> 00:26:07.386 sooner there were headlines that 00:26:07.386 --> 00:26:09.649 alert us about the problem of 00:26:09.649 --> 00:26:13.026 online cannibals, I do not know 00:26:13.026 --> 00:26:15.388 how you can be an online cannibal or 00:26:15.388 --> 00:26:19.064 online vegan. The point is that the 00:26:19.064 --> 00:26:22.338 headline was "Suspicion that there is a global 00:26:22.338 --> 00:26:24.989 net of cannibals" and it said "The 00:26:24.989 --> 00:26:27.588 police is finfing out little by little 00:26:27.588 --> 00:26:29.481 the world of online cannibals and what 00:26:29.481 --> 00:26:32.676 they find each time is 00:26:32.676 --> 00:26:34.797 more and more dreadful". 00:26:34.797 --> 00:26:36.370 All this infromation they 00:26:36.370 --> 00:26:37.990 took it from the cannibal of 00:26:37.990 --> 00:26:40.336 Rothenburg himself. It seemed that he was 00:26:40.336 --> 00:26:42.290 someone reliable, he could eat whatever but 00:26:42.290 --> 00:26:44.146 he has no reason to lie. And with 00:26:44.146 --> 00:26:46.552 that, they took out all 00:26:46.552 --> 00:26:48.768 that news. 00:26:48.768 --> 00:26:51.968 Then all this campaign, 00:26:51.968 --> 00:26:54.587 this vision of the new technologies, 00:26:54.587 --> 00:26:57.541 this way to solve the conflict that 00:26:57.541 --> 00:26:59.012 comes with the arrival of new 00:26:59.012 --> 00:27:01.106 technologies and basically the fact that 00:27:01.106 --> 00:27:02.777 anyone can have a printer at 00:27:02.777 --> 00:27:04.696 home and do what before only 00:27:04.696 --> 00:27:06.778 could be done by editors with expensive 00:27:06.778 --> 00:27:08.843 machines and now in the first world 00:27:08.843 --> 00:27:11.440 this can be made at home of 00:27:11.440 --> 00:27:13.633 practically anyone, this 00:27:13.633 --> 00:27:15.309 conflict that is generated because 00:27:15.309 --> 00:27:16.707 befaure, intellectual property laws 00:27:16.707 --> 00:27:20.296 only affected a small portion 00:27:20.296 --> 00:27:22.598 of the population who were the 00:27:22.598 --> 00:27:23.921 editors, the ones that could 00:27:23.921 --> 00:27:25.626 pay for the copy machine. 00:27:25.626 --> 00:27:27.947 It resulted that with the arrive of new 00:27:27.947 --> 00:27:29.762 technologies and the broadening of the 00:27:29.762 --> 00:27:31.318 number of persons that are able to copy. 00:27:31.318 --> 00:27:32.964 It results that this laws were 00:27:32.964 --> 00:27:35.567 restricting habits that are no 00:27:35.567 --> 00:27:38.228 longer of five or six editors but 00:27:38.228 --> 00:27:42.516 now we are talking about the entire 00:27:42.516 --> 00:27:44.215 population. 00:27:44.215 --> 00:27:47.082 We are talking about common and daily 00:27:47.082 --> 00:27:49.054 habit in the society and the way to 00:27:49.054 --> 00:27:52.768 solve it is basically 00:27:52.768 --> 00:27:55.275 the two ways that existed in the time 00:27:55.275 --> 00:27:57.001 of the cassette. 00:27:57.001 --> 00:28:00.797 The legislator saw something and said, 00:28:00.797 --> 00:28:04.690 lets see the copy of the cassette 00:28:04.690 --> 00:28:06.351 tape is ilegal according to the law of 00:28:06.351 --> 00:28:08.516 intellectual property, but the legislator 00:28:08.516 --> 00:28:10.086 reached a conclusion and said, it 00:28:10.086 --> 00:28:12.893 is ilegal but it is unstopable and what 00:28:12.893 --> 00:28:18.560 is the point of forbiding somehing that not just 00:28:18.560 --> 00:28:20.335 I cannot stop but I cannot stop 00:28:20.335 --> 00:28:22.949 even a one percent. 00:28:22.949 --> 00:28:24.706 It is not like the example usually 00:28:24.706 --> 00:28:28.567 given of the guy that skips the trafic light. 00:28:28.567 --> 00:28:30.416 Everyone has skipped the traffic light 00:28:30.416 --> 00:28:31.751 sometime. But with this laws 00:28:31.751 --> 00:28:34.064 we can restrict it to a pont where 00:28:34.064 --> 00:28:36.384 we could coexist and 00:28:36.384 --> 00:28:37.777 then it exists the possibility of 00:28:37.777 --> 00:28:39.715 infraction but we can maintain it 00:28:39.715 --> 00:28:43.151 at a level more or less tolerable of infractions. 00:28:43.151 --> 00:28:45.431 However the issue about the 00:28:45.431 --> 00:28:46.624 cassette tapes is 00:28:46.624 --> 00:28:48.306 that the legislator realised something that 00:28:48.306 --> 00:28:50.450 he cannot reduce it even a bit 00:28:50.450 --> 00:28:53.240 because it happened in the privacy 00:28:53.240 --> 00:28:54.741 of home and in the moment it 00:28:54.741 --> 00:28:56.214 happens in the privacy of home, the 00:28:56.214 --> 00:28:58.205 legislator asked himself what could he do if 00:28:58.205 --> 00:29:01.445 technology allows in a clear way 00:29:01.445 --> 00:29:05.757 something that is impossible to forbid and what 00:29:05.757 --> 00:29:07.376 he said was: "Well lets 00:29:07.376 --> 00:29:08.623 introduce what is called a 00:29:08.623 --> 00:29:10.480 copyright so it could be legal and 00:29:10.480 --> 00:29:12.300 lets invented an alternative of 00:29:12.300 --> 00:29:15.878 remuneration so those damages that 00:29:15.878 --> 00:29:17.483 we cannot stop, at least 00:29:17.483 --> 00:29:20.132 decrease it as far as 00:29:20.132 --> 00:29:22.572 possible and we can 00:29:22.572 --> 00:29:26.047 remunerate the holders of the 00:29:26.047 --> 00:29:28.027 intellectual property rights 00:29:28.027 --> 00:29:30.489 and that is when the famosu canon was born. 00:29:30.489 --> 00:29:32.315 Canon that worked without 00:29:32.315 --> 00:29:34.554 anybody protesting when it was applied to 00:29:34.554 --> 00:29:37.158 the cassette tape because the truth is that 00:29:37.158 --> 00:29:38.944 with the exception of some groups like 00:29:38.944 --> 00:29:40.375 journalists, it is used basically 00:29:40.375 --> 00:29:41.632 for that. 00:29:41.632 --> 00:29:44.453 Then it jumped to the CDs and it was then when 00:29:44.453 --> 00:29:46.184 the CDs, the blank page of 00:29:46.184 --> 00:29:47.835 twenty-first century. 00:29:47.835 --> 00:29:49.794 It has a canon and then people 00:29:49.794 --> 00:29:51.526 protested because they were putting a 00:29:51.526 --> 00:29:53.052 tax to something that could 00:29:53.052 --> 00:29:56.491 contain almost anything and it was then when 00:29:56.491 --> 00:29:59.132 this remunaration system failed. 00:29:59.132 --> 00:30:03.430 About the activities that exist 00:30:03.430 --> 00:30:05.161 nowadays and with the legislation we 00:30:05.161 --> 00:30:08.111 have, what the industry decided, 00:30:08.111 --> 00:30:11.040 later we will speak about what the legislator decided, 00:30:11.040 --> 00:30:12.806 and what they decided as a result of the 00:30:12.806 --> 00:30:14.796 legal sentence I am about to comment, 00:30:14.796 --> 00:30:16.440 it was to iniciate legal actions. 00:30:16.440 --> 00:30:21.196 In a time there was a controversy in Spain 00:30:21.196 --> 00:30:23.517 about if downloading music or 00:30:23.517 --> 00:30:25.169 movies on Internet without any authorization 00:30:25.169 --> 00:30:28.823 was a crime or not and if it was legal or not. 00:30:28.823 --> 00:30:31.507 This are two concepts that seem 00:30:31.507 --> 00:30:33.417 the same but they are not, crime 00:30:33.417 --> 00:30:36.035 is what is punished in the penal code 00:30:36.035 --> 00:30:38.135 whereas it may not be a crime but 00:30:38.135 --> 00:30:40.255 ilegal, for example a civil 00:30:40.255 --> 00:30:42.564 ilegality or skipping the traffic light. 00:30:42.564 --> 00:30:44.773 This are not crimes but an ilegality. 00:30:44.773 --> 00:30:50.393 So the debate that was in 00:30:50.393 --> 00:30:53.393 2005 was if the penal code, 00:30:53.393 --> 00:30:55.113 the one 00:30:55.113 --> 00:30:57.920 that right now has been 00:30:57.920 --> 00:30:59.750 reformed, later we will comment it, 00:30:59.750 --> 00:31:00.832 if it considered a crime the 00:31:00.832 --> 00:31:02.564 downloading from Internet. 00:31:02.564 --> 00:31:03.843 The content industry argued 00:31:03.843 --> 00:31:05.162 that downloads from internet were 00:31:05.162 --> 00:31:07.180 clearly a crime, they based it in 00:31:07.180 --> 00:31:09.641 the article 270 of the penal 00:31:09.641 --> 00:31:11.240 code. This article required 00:31:11.240 --> 00:31:15.790 a behavior to be with a determined 00:31:15.790 --> 00:31:18.624 subjective aim, it asks two requisits. 00:31:18.624 --> 00:31:21.098 Firstly, someone to copy without 00:31:21.098 --> 00:31:23.099 authorization, this is called the 00:31:23.099 --> 00:31:25.121 objective element, and secondly that this 00:31:25.121 --> 00:31:27.476 activity of copying without authorization 00:31:27.476 --> 00:31:29.145 also to be made for profit. 00:31:29.145 --> 00:31:31.540 This two requisits have to 00:31:31.540 --> 00:31:33.705 occur in the same action for it 00:31:33.705 --> 00:31:36.702 to be of the penal type and so it becomes 00:31:36.702 --> 00:31:38.555 a crime against intellectual 00:31:38.555 --> 00:31:40.583 property. What happened was that 00:31:40.583 --> 00:31:42.521 downloads on Internet, what we 00:31:42.521 --> 00:31:44.921 maintained was that it occured the 00:31:44.921 --> 00:31:47.880 objective element, there was a copy without 00:31:47.880 --> 00:31:49.966 authorization but there was no subjective 00:31:49.966 --> 00:31:52.516 element because the copy was not made 00:31:52.516 --> 00:31:53.997 for profit as it was a 00:31:53.997 --> 00:31:58.329 free exchange, what the industry 00:31:58.329 --> 00:32:00.807 sutained was theat this profit aim 00:32:00.807 --> 00:32:02.585 had to be interpreted in an expansive 00:32:02.585 --> 00:32:04.516 form, it had to be interpreted as 00:32:04.516 --> 00:32:08.070 any benefit, profit or advantage, 00:32:08.070 --> 00:32:10.468 that something gives ou in a way that if you 00:32:10.468 --> 00:32:12.071 download a disc, this gives you some kind 00:32:12.071 --> 00:32:13.759 of benefit, an advantage that it is 00:32:13.759 --> 00:32:16.606 not money but in a certain way 00:32:16.606 --> 00:32:18.782 it benefits you or even the possibility of 00:32:18.782 --> 00:32:22.012 saving the money of buying that disc 00:32:22.012 --> 00:32:23.758 if you had decided to buy it and 00:32:23.758 --> 00:32:25.869 this way with this 00:32:25.869 --> 00:32:28.204 definition, lets say ambiguous, of 00:32:28.204 --> 00:32:30.082 what is a profit aim, they said 00:32:30.082 --> 00:32:31.866 that downloads form Internet had 00:32:31.866 --> 00:32:33.693 profit aim. 00:32:33.693 --> 00:32:36.635 There was as I said a big discussion that 00:32:36.635 --> 00:32:38.561 was intended to be solved in practice with 00:32:38.561 --> 00:32:40.871 the intervention of Antonio Guisasola 00:32:40.871 --> 00:32:42.901 who went to the media 00:32:42.901 --> 00:32:43.800 as president of 00:32:43.800 --> 00:32:46.095 Promusicae saying he was going to do something 00:32:46.095 --> 00:32:49.029 That was to denounce a spaniard so that 00:32:49.029 --> 00:32:52.231 judges had to determined if that 00:32:52.231 --> 00:32:55.108 was a crime or not. What they were 00:32:55.108 --> 00:32:56.821 going to do, he said, 00:32:56.821 --> 00:32:58.922 was to denounce someone so 00:32:58.922 --> 00:33:04.468 the judges finally pronounce so the 00:33:04.468 --> 00:33:05.624 debate is over. 00:33:05.624 --> 00:33:08.244 Well, they did it, I do not know if 00:33:08.244 --> 00:33:10.123 following this reasoning but the case is 00:33:10.123 --> 00:33:12.626 that an ordinary man from Santander 00:33:12.626 --> 00:33:14.814 won the lottery and he 00:33:14.814 --> 00:33:17.553 was denounce so that a judge 00:33:17.553 --> 00:33:20.865 dictaminated if that was a crime or not. 00:33:20.865 --> 00:33:23.879 This ws resoluted in the sentence from the 00:33:23.879 --> 00:33:25.023 penal court number three of 00:33:25.023 --> 00:33:28.368 Santander, fourteenth of July, 2006 and what 00:33:28.368 --> 00:33:30.644 was said by the signer judge about 00:33:30.644 --> 00:33:32.595 the resolution was that the accused 00:33:32.595 --> 00:33:37.445 was absolved. the judge said that the 00:33:37.445 --> 00:33:39.821 objective element existed, 00:33:39.821 --> 00:33:41.364 the man downloaded without 00:33:41.364 --> 00:33:43.429 authorization but the subjective element did not, 00:33:43.429 --> 00:33:45.568 he did not have a profit aim and 00:33:45.568 --> 00:33:48.828 understanding profit aim, said the judge, 00:33:48.828 --> 00:33:52.484 in a restrictive way and not expansive 00:33:52.484 --> 00:33:53.791 as it was pretended. So as 00:33:53.791 --> 00:33:56.184 it occurs one elment but not the 00:33:56.184 --> 00:33:58.868 other, the penal type declines and the 00:33:58.868 --> 00:34:01.989 action is not punishable. It is not an 00:34:01.989 --> 00:34:03.585 action that fits in the penal type 00:34:03.585 --> 00:34:05.993 of the 270 art. So, the at the time 00:34:05.993 --> 00:34:10.000 president of Sony was asked in 00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:12.053 "La Gaceta de los Negocios" what he thought about 00:34:12.053 --> 00:34:15.834 this resolution and he analysed 00:34:15.834 --> 00:34:20.454 the resolution calmed and the most 00:34:20.454 --> 00:34:25.456 legally funded posible and he said that someone can be 00:34:25.456 --> 00:34:29.390 judge and an idiot and he encouraged the 00:34:29.390 --> 00:34:31.033 signer judge of the resolution to 00:34:31.033 --> 00:34:33.604 study a bit more and after that 00:34:33.604 --> 00:34:35.641 they appealed the sentence but they got 00:34:35.641 --> 00:34:38.770 to a Provinc Court that again 00:34:38.770 --> 00:34:41.292 did not study anything and confirmed the 00:34:41.292 --> 00:34:42.886 sentence of the first court 00:34:42.886 --> 00:34:46.031 Absolving the accused. So they said: 00:34:46.031 --> 00:34:49.204 'Ok, we failed against 00:34:49.204 --> 00:34:50.606 the users, 00:34:50.606 --> 00:34:54.351 lets focus on the next actor', 00:34:54.351 --> 00:34:56.382 the next actor were the link 00:34:56.382 --> 00:34:58.805 pages, it meant, they tried against 00:34:58.805 --> 00:35:01.642 users, they tried through the penal 00:35:01.642 --> 00:35:03.355 way, they tried also through the civil 00:35:03.355 --> 00:35:04.998 way but they couldn't 00:35:04.998 --> 00:35:06.392 find out the name from the 00:35:06.392 --> 00:35:07.854 IP numbers. 00:35:07.854 --> 00:35:10.013 The law of data preservation prevents 00:35:10.013 --> 00:35:11.913 that in a process that is not penal to 00:35:11.913 --> 00:35:14.335 revealed this data, so through the civil 00:35:14.335 --> 00:35:16.486 way they reached nothing also and 00:35:16.486 --> 00:35:17.821 they said: 'Lets focus on 00:35:17.821 --> 00:35:19.972 this link pages, this pages 00:35:19.972 --> 00:35:22.564 that without containing the contents, 00:35:22.564 --> 00:35:24.888 it means without having the 00:35:24.888 --> 00:35:25.840 files 00:35:25.840 --> 00:35:28.410 what they made was to put a link to 00:35:28.410 --> 00:35:30.547 the file that was being spread in the 00:35:30.547 --> 00:35:35.161 p2p nets by the users or 00:35:35.161 --> 00:35:37.533 link to a server like Megaupload or 00:35:37.533 --> 00:35:42.341 like Rapidshare. This began as a 00:35:42.341 --> 00:35:44.814 big operation, also media, 00:35:44.814 --> 00:35:48.223 in the year 2006, as you can see coetaneous to 00:35:48.223 --> 00:35:50.311 the sentence that absolved this man 00:35:50.311 --> 00:35:53.173 form Snatander and what happened was that 00:35:53.173 --> 00:35:55.690 they detained fifteen administrators of 00:35:55.690 --> 00:35:58.566 link web pages. The communication 00:35:58.566 --> 00:35:59.715 media with this issue 00:35:59.715 --> 00:36:01.270 got mad and they 00:36:01.270 --> 00:36:04.743 published the new of this mere 00:36:04.743 --> 00:36:06.349 detentions as if they were guilty 00:36:06.349 --> 00:36:09.905 veredicts in itself. It is something that 00:36:09.905 --> 00:36:12.278 shocked me a lot because you have 00:36:12.278 --> 00:36:14.715 seen in the news that whenever 00:36:14.715 --> 00:36:16.626 they talk about any question that 00:36:16.626 --> 00:36:18.952 is related to a legal matter, the word 00:36:18.952 --> 00:36:20.753 suspected or alledgley appear 00:36:20.753 --> 00:36:23.480 as something normal 00:36:23.480 --> 00:36:25.825 In fact sometimes it appears 00:36:25.825 --> 00:36:28.903 excesively 00:36:28.903 --> 00:36:30.762 I found a case where a 00:36:30.762 --> 00:36:33.643 newspaper talke about a stockbreeder that 00:36:33.643 --> 00:36:35.053 was found dead 00:36:35.053 --> 00:36:39.033 half-buried and the new said "The 00:36:39.033 --> 00:36:42.227 alledge deceased" and alledge it is not 00:36:42.227 --> 00:36:45.224 a hal-buried corpse and also it said 00:36:45.224 --> 00:36:48.700 that to the alledge deceased they were going too make 00:36:48.700 --> 00:36:50.766 the ahtopsy. Check before if you have 00:36:50.766 --> 00:36:56.136 any doubt but the paranoia for a possible 00:36:56.136 --> 00:36:58.487 complaint for slander makes the 00:36:58.487 --> 00:37:00.471 word alledge to be used more than 00:37:00.471 --> 00:37:04.453 often. In the case of the raid 00:37:04.453 --> 00:37:06.564 of the year 2006 against link pages 00:37:06.564 --> 00:37:08.214 the word alledge disappeared 00:37:08.214 --> 00:37:11.277 absolutely, I remember a 00:37:11.277 --> 00:37:14.440 newspaper's headline that could 00:37:14.440 --> 00:37:18.733 not be clearer and said in the 00:37:18.733 --> 00:37:21.058 headline, it was a leading article tha furthermor 00:37:21.058 --> 00:37:22.860 was published in other newspapers 00:37:22.860 --> 00:37:25.517 of the same group, it said "Pirates on the net" 00:37:25.517 --> 00:37:29.253 and said that the fifteen detainees were part 00:37:29.253 --> 00:37:32.676 of the biggest european clandestine 00:37:32.676 --> 00:37:36.001 organization of the peer to peer nets and it said 00:37:36.001 --> 00:37:37.924 this was also a gigantic 00:37:37.924 --> 00:37:41.496 cybernetic bootleg peddler and that it was needed 00:37:41.496 --> 00:37:42.980 to unmask this perverted vision 00:37:42.980 --> 00:37:45.483 of the net in order to avoid it to convert 00:37:45.483 --> 00:37:47.305 in an authentic sanctuary of 00:37:47.305 --> 00:37:49.106 cybercriminals. All this, the day 00:37:49.106 --> 00:37:50.699 after to the detentions. It have not 00:37:50.699 --> 00:37:52.388 passed even 24 hours. 00:37:52.388 --> 00:37:56.086 Neither have passed 24 hours 00:37:56.086 --> 00:37:57.706 when ACAM, the association of 00:37:57.706 --> 00:37:59.378 composers and song writers 00:37:59.378 --> 00:38:01.898 published in their web page a headline 00:38:01.898 --> 00:38:04.679 saying "Demonstrated that exchange peer to peer 00:38:04.679 --> 00:38:06.763 is a crime" and beneath appeared a 00:38:06.763 --> 00:38:08.234 list of web pages that 00:38:08.234 --> 00:38:13.702 had a header that said 00:38:13.702 --> 00:38:15.550 "Web pages 00:38:15.550 --> 00:38:17.473 from which there was delinquency" It did not say 00:38:17.473 --> 00:38:19.173 denounced web pages or pages with denounced 00:38:19.173 --> 00:38:21.406 administrators. But it said pages from 00:38:21.406 --> 00:38:24.267 which was delinquency as a fact, the judge 00:38:24.267 --> 00:38:26.647 did not even knowhe had a 00:38:26.647 --> 00:38:28.290 proceeding yet, but for ACAM 00:38:28.290 --> 00:38:31.425 the sentence was already clear 00:38:31.425 --> 00:38:33.304 I guess that with the calm that 00:38:33.304 --> 00:38:34.880 gave them the clause of exemption for any 00:38:34.880 --> 00:38:36.044 responsability 00:38:36.044 --> 00:38:37.698 that they had those years in ACAM 00:38:37.698 --> 00:38:39.207 They had a little clause, a 00:38:39.207 --> 00:38:40.849 usual disclaimer of web pages 00:38:40.849 --> 00:38:42.703 but in here it goes further and 00:38:42.703 --> 00:38:47.223 said 'ACAM is not responsible 00:38:47.223 --> 00:38:48.664 for the articles and any 00:38:48.664 --> 00:38:50.397 opinion of third persons published in this 00:38:50.397 --> 00:38:53.368 web page nor of the articles or 00:38:53.368 --> 00:38:55.682 self opinions. This means they were 00:38:55.682 --> 00:38:57.015 completely armoured legally, the 00:38:57.015 --> 00:39:02.884 case is that what ocurred with this cyber 00:39:02.884 --> 00:39:05.239 santuarium of criminals. In the 00:39:05.239 --> 00:39:09.071 first of the cases I had the luck 00:39:09.071 --> 00:39:10.523 to participate in it with my 00:39:10.523 --> 00:39:12.774 colleague Javier de la Cueva, the case 00:39:12.774 --> 00:39:14.659 Sharemula was the first one to be 00:39:14.659 --> 00:39:16.678 solved, in this case the 00:39:16.678 --> 00:39:18.771 complainents that first denounced were the 00:39:18.771 --> 00:39:22.290 producers of the documentaries of 00:39:22.290 --> 00:39:24.342 Feliz Rodriguez de la Fuente, they made 00:39:24.342 --> 00:39:26.094 a complaint and the police, that had 00:39:26.094 --> 00:39:27.780 lot of sensitivity with this issues, sent 00:39:27.780 --> 00:39:29.844 a letter to the affected by 00:39:29.844 --> 00:39:33.656 what was done from Sharemula 00:39:33.656 --> 00:39:36.408 and quickly the personal 00:39:36.408 --> 00:39:39.096 prosecution was formed by the SGAE, 00:39:39.096 --> 00:39:41.631 Microsof, Promusicae, Egeda, Columbia, Walt 00:39:41.631 --> 00:39:44.024 Disney, Twenty Century Fox, Warner, 00:39:44.024 --> 00:39:49.849 Lauren Film, Manga Film, Universal, Sony 00:39:49.849 --> 00:39:52.107 Metro Goldwyn Mayer, Cristiano Ronaldo, well 00:39:52.107 --> 00:39:55.889 they were all in there and the case is that the 00:39:55.889 --> 00:39:57.777 first the personal prosecutors 00:39:57.777 --> 00:40:00.581 made was to ask for precautionary 00:40:00.581 --> 00:40:03.037 measures, unprecedented part, unprecedented part 00:40:03.037 --> 00:40:05.337 meant without hearing the part tha was affected 00:40:05.337 --> 00:40:07.468 by the precautionary measures they were 00:40:07.468 --> 00:40:10.629 asking for, in concrete they ask the precautionary 00:40:10.629 --> 00:40:12.760 measur of shutting down the web page. 00:40:12.760 --> 00:40:14.811 The judge that saw the issue in the Instruction 00:40:14.811 --> 00:40:16.635 Court here in Madrid said: 00:40:16.635 --> 00:40:19.148 "Well, I will to listen the petition of precautionary 00:40:19.148 --> 00:40:21.253 measures but 00:40:21.253 --> 00:40:24.013 I want to do it with the other part in the 00:40:24.013 --> 00:40:26.940 room to hear it because it is the first 00:40:26.940 --> 00:40:28.956 case not that I found in this 00:40:28.956 --> 00:40:31.033 court but that it is going to be judged in 00:40:31.033 --> 00:40:33.260 Spain and so I seem 00:40:33.260 --> 00:40:35.204 interesting to know what has to say 00:40:35.204 --> 00:40:36.565 the other part" 00:40:36.565 --> 00:40:38.469 So there was a hearing for precautionary 00:40:38.469 --> 00:40:40.588 measures. And what the personal 00:40:40.588 --> 00:40:44.496 prosecution sustained in the hearing 00:40:44.900 --> 00:40:46.823 was that in Sharemula there 00:40:46.823 --> 00:40:49.969 was being commited a crime because in 00:40:49.969 --> 00:40:52.600 this case the profit aim was 00:40:52.600 --> 00:40:53.944 evident. 00:40:53.944 --> 00:40:56.328 If in the case against the users there 00:40:56.328 --> 00:40:59.419 was no profit aim, in Sharemula there was 00:40:59.419 --> 00:41:01.848 profit aim because there were advertisement 00:41:01.848 --> 00:41:03.900 banners. This advertising gave them some 00:41:03.900 --> 00:41:05.726 money, lots or few, it willbe seen during 00:41:05.726 --> 00:41:08.138 the process, but there was money and due to 00:41:08.138 --> 00:41:10.392 that economic profit so there is the 00:41:10.392 --> 00:41:12.858 subjective element that was needed with 00:41:12.858 --> 00:41:15.176 the users, so in this case there 00:41:15.176 --> 00:41:17.337 was a crime, sustained the personal 00:41:17.337 --> 00:41:18.371 prosecution. 00:41:18.371 --> 00:41:22.474 What we said was that we did not 00:41:22.474 --> 00:41:24.334 discuss the subjective element of 00:41:24.334 --> 00:41:25.916 profit aim, 00:41:25.916 --> 00:41:28.590 in here what was missed was the other 00:41:28.590 --> 00:41:30.930 element, the ojective element, it means, 00:41:30.930 --> 00:41:34.480 the copy of intellectual property because 00:41:34.480 --> 00:41:36.428 who did it were the users of 00:41:36.428 --> 00:41:38.428 the peer to peer nets not the ones 00:41:38.428 --> 00:41:40.562 that link. The linkers do not copy 00:41:40.562 --> 00:41:42.190 absolutely nothing, what the do 00:41:42.190 --> 00:41:46.036 is to create a group of alphanumerical 00:41:46.036 --> 00:41:47.850 caracters that tells where is 00:41:47.850 --> 00:41:49.892 a content without hosting it, with no copy nor 00:41:49.892 --> 00:41:52.049 dissemination. The one copying and disseminating 00:41:52.049 --> 00:41:54.099 is the user and the decree that 00:41:54.099 --> 00:42:00.531 desestimated the precautionary measures 00:42:00.531 --> 00:42:03.055 said that effectively the web will not 00:42:03.055 --> 00:42:04.840 be closed simply because what the page 00:42:04.840 --> 00:42:06.566 did in there, did not fitted in the 00:42:06.566 --> 00:42:09.346 penal type of 270 because even having 00:42:09.346 --> 00:42:11.344 profit aim, it was not made with an 00:42:11.344 --> 00:42:14.336 infraction, what Shamerula did not 00:42:14.336 --> 00:42:16.840 do was to copy files just 00:42:16.840 --> 00:42:19.994 because they did not have them and 00:42:19.994 --> 00:42:22.346 after the decree, another was dictated 00:42:22.346 --> 00:42:26.851 that closed the debate, it was the decree 00:42:26.851 --> 00:42:28.365 declaring the free stay in the Sharemula case 00:42:28.365 --> 00:42:30.744 that what made was to say that 00:42:30.744 --> 00:42:33.150 as there was no crime, ther will be 00:42:33.150 --> 00:42:35.526 no trial and it was stored, 00:42:35.526 --> 00:42:37.485 this equals to an acquital 00:42:37.485 --> 00:42:39.455 and it was a hard blow in 00:42:39.455 --> 00:42:41.233 the waterline of that 00:42:41.233 --> 00:42:47.374 raid of the year 2006 because what 00:42:47.374 --> 00:42:49.998 directly made, not just going to a 00:42:49.998 --> 00:42:52.599 trial and be judged and deel the dock 00:42:52.599 --> 00:42:55.376 punishment but that operation the 00:42:55.376 --> 00:42:56.906 most important in Europe, the media 00:42:56.906 --> 00:42:58.840 said, the ones who pronounced 00:42:58.840 --> 00:43:01.132 before 24 hours 00:43:01.132 --> 00:43:02.853 It was not even necessary go to trial 00:43:02.853 --> 00:43:04.996 because simply the action that 00:43:04.996 --> 00:43:07.551 was complaint was not a crime. 00:43:07.551 --> 00:43:09.543 We took the resolution, some 00:43:09.543 --> 00:43:11.922 press talk about it and what 00:43:11.922 --> 00:43:14.406 the personal prosecution did was to appeal it 00:43:14.406 --> 00:43:17.100 evidently and in the appealing they introduced 00:43:17.100 --> 00:43:21.621 a courious element and questionable that was 00:43:21.621 --> 00:43:25.568 to say that in Sharemula no 00:43:25.568 --> 00:43:28.079 crime was commited but they 00:43:28.079 --> 00:43:29.625 were helping somehow to 00:43:29.625 --> 00:43:31.152 commit it so they understood that 00:43:31.152 --> 00:43:35.611 in a different degree of responsability 00:43:35.611 --> 00:43:38.201 it might be participating, cooperating 00:43:38.201 --> 00:43:41.771 inciting a crime, Sharemula was 00:43:41.771 --> 00:43:44.678 cooperating in the assignment of a crime 00:43:44.678 --> 00:43:46.744 commited by a third part that does communicate 00:43:46.744 --> 00:43:49.858 publicly, they said. We argued 00:43:49.858 --> 00:43:51.881 that neither because simply there 00:43:51.881 --> 00:43:54.096 cannot be cooperation to a crime if 00:43:54.096 --> 00:43:56.086 what is made by a thrid is not a crime. 00:43:56.086 --> 00:43:58.326 Sharemula effectively helped 00:43:58.326 --> 00:44:00.510 users to exchange intellectual 00:44:00.510 --> 00:44:02.348 works but as the action of 00:44:02.348 --> 00:44:04.199 the users was not criminal, 00:44:04.199 --> 00:44:06.382 as we saw with the man from Santander, 00:44:06.382 --> 00:44:08.288 there cannot be a crime because in order 00:44:08.288 --> 00:44:09.863 to exist needed cooperation with a 00:44:09.863 --> 00:44:11.426 crime, the cooperation must be with 00:44:11.426 --> 00:44:14.406 a criminal action and results that 00:44:14.406 --> 00:44:17.061 the users action was not. 00:44:17.061 --> 00:44:19.871 For that reason there did not exist 00:44:19.871 --> 00:44:23.297 any degree of penal responsability and 00:44:23.297 --> 00:44:25.444 we were looking for a 00:44:25.444 --> 00:44:27.909 resolution. It is not a sentence, is a decree 00:44:27.909 --> 00:44:30.436 that was going to make with 00:44:30.436 --> 00:44:33.519 domino effecto what was about to happen 00:44:33.519 --> 00:44:35.792 after and I remember perfectly that no 00:44:35.792 --> 00:44:38.250 journalist called from "El Mundo" 00:44:38.250 --> 00:44:39.997 anywhere and after we had 00:44:39.997 --> 00:44:43.865 been showing off on Internet 00:44:43.865 --> 00:44:46.318 for about three or four months, telling 00:44:46.318 --> 00:44:47.962 we had won those guys and 00:44:47.962 --> 00:44:51.084 we were lawyers that had no 00:44:51.084 --> 00:44:53.639 presentation card yet, 00:44:53.639 --> 00:44:55.721 we got phoned from "El Mundo" and said 00:44:55.721 --> 00:44:57.330 "You have to declared something 00:44:57.330 --> 00:44:58.733 about the issue that the Province 00:44:58.733 --> 00:45:00.264 Court has said that you have lost 00:45:00.264 --> 00:45:02.813 the Sharemula case" of course I have 00:45:02.813 --> 00:45:05.290 not received absolutely nothing about 00:45:05.290 --> 00:45:08.215 that and asked how was that possible if we have not 00:45:08.215 --> 00:45:10.510 been notified and they said that it just happened and 00:45:10.510 --> 00:45:12.152 ask for any declaration and I said "I do not know, 00:45:12.152 --> 00:45:14.579 say I have whined, I have cried or something 00:45:14.579 --> 00:45:16.593 like that because I need to read the 00:45:16.593 --> 00:45:18.432 resolution before", they said that I 00:45:18.432 --> 00:45:20.363 would receive it. So I called Javier de 00:45:20.363 --> 00:45:22.269 la Cueva who is from Madrid and 00:45:22.269 --> 00:45:23.928 told him "Javier go to the Province 00:45:23.928 --> 00:45:25.955 Court because they say there is 00:45:25.955 --> 00:45:27.832 a resolution and look what has been said 00:45:27.832 --> 00:45:31.384 because it seems to be negative" 00:45:31.384 --> 00:45:33.815 and Javier, who is the most 00:45:33.815 --> 00:45:37.901 calmed guy in Madrid and valium is 00:45:37.901 --> 00:45:40.760 made out from his blood, 00:45:40.760 --> 00:45:44.916 said "Well, I will go tomorrow" 00:45:44.916 --> 00:45:47.062 and I said "What is that of tomorrow? We have been 00:45:47.062 --> 00:45:48.950 showing off on Internet for over 00:45:48.950 --> 00:45:51.126 three months and this has ended with our 00:45:51.126 --> 00:45:53.794 career, it started with and now ends" and he said 00:45:53.794 --> 00:45:55.917 "I am going tomorrow" so I had to wait 00:45:55.917 --> 00:45:57.407 to the next day in Seville, 00:45:57.407 --> 00:46:00.373 I woke up soon, I gave him time, 00:46:00.373 --> 00:46:02.260 I called him at half past ten in the morning and 00:46:02.260 --> 00:46:03.942 asked him "Javier, Have you gone?" 00:46:03.942 --> 00:46:10.609 "Where?" (he answered) "To the Province Court, 00:46:10.609 --> 00:46:13.322 have you gone?" and the man that is one of the best 00:46:13.322 --> 00:46:15.496 lawyers I know and that calm 00:46:15.496 --> 00:46:17.851 is without any doubt one 00:46:17.851 --> 00:46:19.520 of his virtues says 00:46:19.520 --> 00:46:22.075 "Yes, yes I have gone 00:46:22.075 --> 00:46:23.726 I saw in the resolution that we won" 00:46:23.726 --> 00:46:27.566 I replied "what what? and you do not call me, it 00:46:27.566 --> 00:46:29.796 did not seem something important to you" he answered 00:46:29.796 --> 00:46:32.542 "Yes we won" I told him "But the man from 00:46:32.542 --> 00:46:33.923 "El Mundo" said that in the 00:46:33.923 --> 00:46:36.013 resolution we lost" and he said 00:46:36.013 --> 00:46:38.209 "Well he got right a 50%, not bad" 00:46:38.209 --> 00:46:41.829 The thing is that effectively Sharemula 00:46:41.829 --> 00:46:44.414 ended that way and after that there was 00:46:44.414 --> 00:46:47.482 a flood of resolutions in the same sense. 00:46:47.482 --> 00:46:50.584 This as expected 00:46:50.584 --> 00:46:53.153 did not felt well in the 00:46:53.153 --> 00:46:56.141 industry and later we will see quickly 00:46:56.141 --> 00:46:59.071 what was their reaction, after losing 00:46:59.071 --> 00:47:01.260 in the penal way and in the civil way 00:47:01.260 --> 00:47:02.995 because the also tried against the 00:47:02.995 --> 00:47:04.587 link pages, they focused on the 00:47:04.587 --> 00:47:08.039 developer of the tool 00:47:08.039 --> 00:47:12.090 precisely in Pablo Soto, who 00:47:12.090 --> 00:47:13.775 is now city councilman 00:47:13.775 --> 00:47:16.532 here in Madrid, he is a informatic 00:47:16.532 --> 00:47:18.993 developer that what had made was 00:47:18.993 --> 00:47:20.537 to create a tool peer to peer that 00:47:20.537 --> 00:47:22.845 allowed the exchange of files, 00:47:22.845 --> 00:47:24.292 of files that may have copyright 00:47:24.292 --> 00:47:25.913 what may occur 00:47:25.913 --> 00:47:27.929 in the most of the times and 00:47:27.929 --> 00:47:29.688 not in other occasion. This depends on 00:47:29.688 --> 00:47:32.831 the user, and they demanded him, he was demanded 00:47:32.831 --> 00:47:35.900 by Promusica and the four major 00:47:35.900 --> 00:47:38.083 record companies, the biggest record 00:47:38.083 --> 00:47:41.281 companies all over the world and they asked him 00:47:41.281 --> 00:47:44.072 thirteen millon sixty thousand euros as 00:47:44.072 --> 00:47:45.706 compensation for violating 00:47:45.706 --> 00:47:47.553 intellectual property 00:47:47.553 --> 00:47:48.725 by developing a tool that 00:47:48.725 --> 00:47:51.083 have been used by thirds 00:47:51.083 --> 00:47:54.467 to violate intellectual property of the 00:47:54.467 --> 00:47:55.839 plaintiff 00:47:55.839 --> 00:48:01.704 this case had a great volume 00:48:01.704 --> 00:48:03.949 of paper but in reality the question 00:48:03.949 --> 00:48:05.751 that was made was simple 00:48:05.751 --> 00:48:08.138 the question asked to the judge under 00:48:08.138 --> 00:48:09.898 the nine qualifieds that accompanied the 00:48:09.898 --> 00:48:11.487 complaint was simply 'Does the 00:48:11.487 --> 00:48:13.981 Intellectual Property Law forbids the 00:48:13.981 --> 00:48:18.151 informatic developers to create a 00:48:18.151 --> 00:48:20.125 tool that allows a third 00:48:20.125 --> 00:48:24.156 to violate intellectual property?' 00:48:24.156 --> 00:48:26.047 A law like that 00:48:26.047 --> 00:48:28.775 would have make Gutember not to invent the 00:48:28.775 --> 00:48:30.435 printing press 00:48:30.435 --> 00:48:32.109 The question is in our law, this is 00:48:32.109 --> 00:48:34.951 disposable and the answer was not in 00:48:34.951 --> 00:48:37.988 the Intellectual Property Law 00:48:37.988 --> 00:48:39.972 The only forbidden thing was the 00:48:39.972 --> 00:48:43.461 creation of a software that allows 00:48:43.461 --> 00:48:45.538 to unprotect works with a 00:48:45.538 --> 00:48:49.031 specific anticopy system, a 00:48:49.031 --> 00:48:52.590 DRM or whatever, but it did not forbid 00:48:52.590 --> 00:48:54.839 the creation of any other 00:48:54.839 --> 00:48:56.458 technology, not even when this 00:48:56.458 --> 00:48:58.352 technology may be used by thirds to 00:48:58.352 --> 00:49:00.845 violate intellectual property rights. 00:49:00.845 --> 00:49:05.159 The trial was extremely long, it ended 00:49:05.159 --> 00:49:09.287 animously with Pablo Soto during that 00:49:09.287 --> 00:49:12.545 time, It was a big dock punishment 00:49:12.545 --> 00:49:15.671 with the sword of Damocles of 00:49:15.671 --> 00:49:17.910 those 13 millions 60 thousand euros upon his 00:49:17.910 --> 00:49:22.017 head and when the trial occured, 00:49:22.017 --> 00:49:23.740 so you can see how does it moves this 00:49:23.740 --> 00:49:24.851 question. 00:49:24.851 --> 00:49:26.735 I remember perfectly it was a trial 00:49:26.735 --> 00:49:28.314 dividied in three days of five 00:49:28.314 --> 00:49:32.979 hours each day, for three non consecutive 00:49:32.979 --> 00:49:35.044 days, there were two consecutive days and 00:49:35.044 --> 00:49:37.258 in the third day there was one between the 00:49:37.258 --> 00:49:42.293 secon daay. What happened was that 00:49:42.293 --> 00:49:45.850 by casualty from the U.S. it was 00:49:45.850 --> 00:49:49.345 sended the message that Spain was one 00:49:49.345 --> 00:49:51.833 of the biggest pirates countries that existed 00:49:51.833 --> 00:49:54.979 in the world, right in the secon day of the 00:49:54.979 --> 00:49:58.814 Soto trial, the spanish media sum 00:49:58.814 --> 00:50:02.298 the calculation they had in front of them 00:50:02.298 --> 00:50:05.411 of two plus two and they got four, what 00:50:05.411 --> 00:50:08.092 they made was to say that Spain was the 00:50:08.092 --> 00:50:10.342 biggest pirate country in the world according to 00:50:10.342 --> 00:50:13.521 the U.S. and today Pablo Soto is judged for 00:50:13.521 --> 00:50:15.392 creating a peer to peer net and they told 00:50:15.392 --> 00:50:17.433 that in the same new and the judge who 00:50:17.433 --> 00:50:19.887 reads newspapers, reads this 00:50:19.887 --> 00:50:21.935 question, in the trial it has its 00:50:21.935 --> 00:50:23.868 weight because judges in the end are 00:50:23.868 --> 00:50:25.609 humans too, with their subjetivities 00:50:25.609 --> 00:50:28.151 etc., etc. 00:50:28.151 --> 00:50:31.437 The point is the judge who was an old 00:50:31.437 --> 00:50:33.879 man, I was in this case also with 00:50:33.879 --> 00:50:35.600 Javier de la Cueva and my colleague 00:50:35.600 --> 00:50:37.910 Jose Ignacio Aguilar from Seville and I told to 00:50:37.910 --> 00:50:40.721 Javier "Watch how the judge 00:50:40.721 --> 00:50:42.853 with the old he is, he is going to 00:50:42.853 --> 00:50:45.567 retire and he is not going to dictate 00:50:45.567 --> 00:50:47.195 any sentence and we have to 00:50:47.195 --> 00:50:50.507 repeat the trial" and Javier, the calmest 00:50:50.507 --> 00:50:52.886 man on earth, said "Nah, he is 00:50:52.886 --> 00:50:54.249 not retiring and if the 00:50:54.249 --> 00:50:55.585 trial is repeaed I will go 00:50:55.585 --> 00:50:58.718 gladly" It is a delight, for me, if something 00:50:58.718 --> 00:51:00.304 really happened and Javier de la Cueva 00:51:00.304 --> 00:51:02.573 is your lawyer and sayid "Well look that 00:51:02.573 --> 00:51:06.056 this guy retires, I saw him really 00:51:06.056 --> 00:51:07.171 old, he is weak" and him "He 00:51:07.171 --> 00:51:09.063 is not retiring and if he retires we 00:51:09.063 --> 00:51:11.275 do this again and we doi it again as good, 00:51:11.275 --> 00:51:15.157 nothing is going to happened". He retired, he did and 00:51:15.157 --> 00:51:19.470 the law of civil indictment says the 00:51:19.470 --> 00:51:22.551 sentence has to be done by the judge 00:51:22.551 --> 00:51:25.243 that was in the hearing and the judge 00:51:25.243 --> 00:51:26.844 retired so there is a new one 00:51:26.844 --> 00:51:29.998 and we had to repeat the hearing 00:51:29.998 --> 00:51:32.052 no part wanted to 00:51:32.052 --> 00:51:35.355 repeat it because it was a waste of money 00:51:35.355 --> 00:51:37.522 and a tremendous effort, what we 00:51:37.522 --> 00:51:41.677 did was go to the court and in front of 00:51:41.677 --> 00:51:43.031 the new judge, we signed an 00:51:43.031 --> 00:51:44.626 act, all the lawyers, saying that 00:51:44.626 --> 00:51:47.218 we all agreed on not to repeat the hearing 00:51:47.218 --> 00:51:49.281 as it had been 00:51:49.281 --> 00:51:50.809 recorden on video, as law oblies to, so 00:51:50.809 --> 00:51:53.012 the new judge watch the hearing in the video and 00:51:53.012 --> 00:51:54.904 illustrate himseld with the partial 00:51:54.904 --> 00:51:57.847 verdict and dictate sentence with what 00:51:57.847 --> 00:52:00.036 it is in the video with no need 00:52:00.036 --> 00:52:02.518 to repeat it in fron of him, he could 00:52:02.518 --> 00:52:04.168 watch it on video and all the 00:52:04.168 --> 00:52:05.612 lawyers of all sides signed the 00:52:05.612 --> 00:52:08.911 act telling that we all agreed. 00:52:08.911 --> 00:52:11.907 The case is that the new judge dictated 00:52:11.907 --> 00:52:14.192 sentence rejecting the demand against 00:52:14.192 --> 00:52:18.071 Pablo Soto and saying that technology 00:52:18.071 --> 00:52:20.632 peer to peer is not forbidden by the 00:52:20.632 --> 00:52:22.294 law of intellectual property, that itt 00:52:22.294 --> 00:52:24.319 only forbids a specific technology and 00:52:24.319 --> 00:52:26.800 in this case it was obvious it was not, 00:52:26.800 --> 00:52:28.364 there was also a debate about the 00:52:28.364 --> 00:52:29.892 unloyal competence that was also 00:52:29.892 --> 00:52:32.111 rejected, it was appealed. 00:52:32.111 --> 00:52:35.188 It was appealed to the Province 00:52:35.188 --> 00:52:38.100 Court of Madrid and surprisingly 00:52:38.100 --> 00:52:39.990 it was the first allegation, the first 00:52:39.990 --> 00:52:42.560 one of the new lawyer office 00:52:42.560 --> 00:52:44.853 because the hired a new one was 00:52:44.853 --> 00:52:47.982 to ask the nulity of the sentence because 00:52:47.982 --> 00:52:50.848 it was dictated but not 00:52:50.848 --> 00:52:54.270 by the judge who witness the hearing and 00:52:54.270 --> 00:52:57.251 of course we have signed an act 00:52:57.251 --> 00:52:59.113 where we said we agreed 00:52:59.113 --> 00:53:00.389 with that, all lawyers and 00:53:00.389 --> 00:53:02.352 said the contrary part surely 00:53:02.352 --> 00:53:05.471 the demanded would told us that 00:53:05.471 --> 00:53:08.454 we signed an act saying we agreed 00:53:08.454 --> 00:53:12.165 with the new judge being 00:53:12.165 --> 00:53:15.058 the one dictating the sentence and 00:53:15.058 --> 00:53:17.433 look you took it from my mouth, I was going 00:53:17.433 --> 00:53:18.908 to say it. 00:53:18.908 --> 00:53:22.043 Just that, but we thought he was going 00:53:22.043 --> 00:53:24.344 to study the case much better and then 00:53:24.344 --> 00:53:25.976 they asked for nulity of the sentence 00:53:25.976 --> 00:53:28.174 because the new judge did not studied 00:53:28.174 --> 00:53:30.155 the bulky decrees enough 00:53:30.155 --> 00:53:32.025 to give the the reason, it was a complete 00:53:32.025 --> 00:53:34.893 win win. 00:53:34.893 --> 00:53:37.297 We did not repeat the hearing if the 00:53:37.297 --> 00:53:40.179 sentence was negative, we as for nulity and 00:53:40.179 --> 00:53:42.734 if its positive, everything is wonderful. 00:53:42.734 --> 00:53:44.878 The point is that this wen to the Province 00:53:44.878 --> 00:53:46.177 Court of Madrid, rejected nulity 00:53:46.177 --> 00:53:48.973 claiming that nulity cannot be an 00:53:48.973 --> 00:53:50.610 ace up yur sleeve to use it 00:53:50.610 --> 00:53:52.621 when it suits you and rejected 00:53:52.621 --> 00:53:57.666 also the subsidiary request of 00:53:57.666 --> 00:53:59.288 revoking the sentence making the 00:53:59.288 --> 00:54:01.538 sentence of Pablo Soto to be resolutive. 00:54:01.538 --> 00:54:04.025 This is the judge-made law panorama that 00:54:04.025 --> 00:54:07.309 has been in Spain against the 00:54:07.309 --> 00:54:08.938 users, against link pages, 00:54:08.938 --> 00:54:10.253 against developers of 00:54:10.253 --> 00:54:12.376 technologies that may eventually 00:54:12.376 --> 00:54:13.960 be used to violate intellectual 00:54:13.960 --> 00:54:16.718 property rights. As you can see all 00:54:16.718 --> 00:54:20.536 the panorama is negative for the industry, 00:54:20.536 --> 00:54:23.705 but this last just a bit, because it is then 00:54:23.705 --> 00:54:27.104 when enters the legislative reform and the 00:54:27.104 --> 00:54:29.214 legislative reform for me that I have been 00:54:29.214 --> 00:54:35.198 in some of the cases that had to 00:54:35.198 --> 00:54:38.394 be with it, it lacks putting the 00:54:38.394 --> 00:54:42.143 name, meaning it is clear how it is cover 00:54:42.143 --> 00:54:45.248 a specific hole for a specific case 00:54:45.248 --> 00:54:47.000 that los a specific part. 00:54:47.000 --> 00:54:50.693 The Law Sinde, 00:54:50.693 --> 00:54:54.577 that provision, which is actually 00:54:54.577 --> 00:54:56.263 a series of reforms in the Intellectual 00:54:56.263 --> 00:54:57.888 Property Law, and the Information 00:54:57.888 --> 00:54:59.961 Society Service Act, was simply to 00:54:59.961 --> 00:55:02.606 change the arbitrators of the conflict, 00:55:02.606 --> 00:55:05.296 what it did is that what before 00:55:05.296 --> 00:55:09.566 the judges ruled in civil courts, 00:55:09.566 --> 00:55:11.298 we will also be able to do so 00:55:11.298 --> 00:55:13.304 through administrative channels, 00:55:13.304 --> 00:55:15.174 open an administrative route for the industry, 00:55:15.174 --> 00:55:17.786 to go directly to the Ministry of Culture, 00:55:17.786 --> 00:55:20.884 and to be the Ministry of Culture to decide, 00:55:20.884 --> 00:55:23.371 if this website, 00:55:23.371 --> 00:55:25.404 As the links pages infringes or not 00:55:25.404 --> 00:55:27.185 the intellectual property, 00:55:27.185 --> 00:55:28.593 that is what the Sinde law did, 00:55:28.593 --> 00:55:30.803 did not change the rules of the game, 00:55:30.803 --> 00:55:32.282 but if it changed the referee, 00:55:32.282 --> 00:55:33.636 in fact what happened when 00:55:33.636 --> 00:55:34.763 changing the referee, 00:55:34.763 --> 00:55:36.190 is that the Sinde commission 00:55:36.190 --> 00:55:37.629 began to dictate judgments, 00:55:37.629 --> 00:55:40.181 which were contrary to those pronounced 00:55:40.181 --> 00:55:42.552 by the judges only a few months before, 00:55:42.552 --> 00:55:44.568 and said just the opposite, 00:55:44.568 --> 00:55:46.107 that what the judges said, 00:55:46.107 --> 00:55:47.506 interpreting identical rules, 00:55:47.506 --> 00:55:49.904 and besides changing the referee, 00:55:49.904 --> 00:55:53.320 soon after, a year, or a year and a half later 00:55:53.320 --> 00:55:55.107 changed the rules of the game, 00:55:55.107 --> 00:55:57.226 reformed the Intellectual Property Law, 00:55:57.226 --> 00:55:59.250 and reformed the Criminal Code, 00:55:59.250 --> 00:56:00.618 and this reform 00:56:00.618 --> 00:56:02.289 you will now understand perfectly, 00:56:02.289 --> 00:56:04.673 without the need for great praise, 00:56:04.673 --> 00:56:06.277 because we have seen how 00:56:06.277 --> 00:56:08.129 your journey judicial, 00:56:08.129 --> 00:56:10.594 and you are going to fit each of the reforms, 00:56:10.594 --> 00:56:12.778 in your specific case 00:56:12.778 --> 00:56:16.097 what they do with the Penal Code is, 00:56:16.097 --> 00:56:19.956 they maintain article 270, which says: 00:56:19.956 --> 00:56:23.664 public communication and profit motive, 00:56:23.664 --> 00:56:26.548 and introduce you a new paragraph that says: 00:56:26.548 --> 00:56:31.613 The same penalty as in the previous paragraph 00:56:31.613 --> 00:56:34.610 will impose on those who maintain ordered 00:56:34.610 --> 00:56:36.774 and classified listings of links to works 00:56:36.774 --> 00:56:41.824 that are being disseminated without authorization, 00:56:41.824 --> 00:56:49.090 when it has a direct or indirect profit, 00:56:49.090 --> 00:56:50.287 to enter advertising 00:56:50.287 --> 00:56:52.486 obviously in this Panorama, 00:56:52.486 --> 00:56:55.637 this paragraph is expressly dedicated 00:56:55.637 --> 00:56:59.216 to the pages of links. 00:56:59.216 --> 00:57:01.898 As for the Soto case, what happened? 00:57:01.898 --> 00:57:03.393 What happened was that 00:57:03.393 --> 00:57:06.681 the cooperation to the infringement, 00:57:06.681 --> 00:57:08.365 that term that was coined in 1999 00:57:08.365 --> 00:57:09.746 United States in the with Napster, 00:57:09.746 --> 00:57:11.370 did not exist in Spain, 00:57:11.370 --> 00:57:12.995 and so that it existed, 00:57:12.995 --> 00:57:15.874 included in article 138 which already existed, 00:57:15.874 --> 00:57:18.366 adding a new paragraph stating that: 00:57:18.366 --> 00:57:22.252 it will be responsible for the infringement, 00:57:22.252 --> 00:57:23.623 not infringing, 00:57:23.623 --> 00:57:26.255 but responsible for the infringement 00:57:26.255 --> 00:57:29.808 of a third party, that in some way cooperated, 00:57:29.808 --> 00:57:33.529 induces or promotes the infringement, 00:57:33.529 --> 00:57:36.399 as is a field wide enough 00:57:36.399 --> 00:57:38.713 to fill legal uncertainty 00:57:38.713 --> 00:57:43.709 with people like Pablo Soto, 00:57:43.709 --> 00:57:47.704 or like any of you who are software developers, 00:57:47.704 --> 00:57:49.590 that is to say what he did, 00:57:49.590 --> 00:57:53.176 or does because this article 138 is in force, 00:57:53.176 --> 00:57:56.447 is that People like Pablo Soto, 00:57:56.447 --> 00:57:57.848 who develop a technology 00:57:57.848 --> 00:58:01.521 that can somehow be used for lawful purposes 00:58:01.521 --> 00:58:03.226 and also to infringe intellectual property, 00:58:03.226 --> 00:58:05.542 are inhibited from that development, 00:58:05.542 --> 00:58:07.910 because the article 138 00:58:07.910 --> 00:58:09.601 introduced a new paragraph, 00:58:09.601 --> 00:58:12.986 ethereal enough to frighten To anyone, 00:58:12.986 --> 00:58:14.725 because it speaks of terms 00:58:14.725 --> 00:58:18.326 that are more specific to criminal law, 00:58:18.326 --> 00:58:20.643 cooperate to induce or promote 00:58:20.643 --> 00:58:23.491 the infringement of a third party. 00:58:23.491 --> 00:58:25.097 With this article in hand 00:58:25.097 --> 00:58:27.235 if Pablo Soto in his day, 00:58:27.235 --> 00:58:28.930 had come to tell me, 00:58:28.930 --> 00:58:31.845 I plan to develop a peer to peer tool, 00:58:31.845 --> 00:58:34.997 I would have told him to be very careful, 00:58:34.997 --> 00:58:37.185 because the article 138 00:58:37.185 --> 00:58:39.036 introduced, is basically a 00:58:39.036 --> 00:58:41.082 translated version in Spanish, 00:58:41.082 --> 00:58:43.560 what the US courts said 00:58:43.560 --> 00:58:45.708 when they coined the term 00:58:45.708 --> 00:58:47.516 "cooperation to infringement" 00:58:47.516 --> 00:58:49.335 to end Napster, which is just 00:58:49.335 --> 00:58:51.337 the term that was not in Spain, 00:58:51.337 --> 00:58:54.537 and which saved Pablo Soto, 00:58:54.537 --> 00:58:56.110 but was not saved because 00:58:56.110 --> 00:58:57.736 there was a gap in the Law, 00:58:57.736 --> 00:59:00.349 nor because there was a gap now filled, 00:59:00.349 --> 00:59:02.172 but because what was, 00:59:02.172 --> 00:59:03.981 was a conscious decision of the legislator, 00:59:03.981 --> 00:59:05.875 who is clear that software developers 00:59:05.875 --> 00:59:08.404 are also creators of intellectual works, 00:59:08.404 --> 00:59:10.761 and that need protection, 00:59:10.761 --> 00:59:12.610 not the opposite, not a wall, 00:59:12.610 --> 00:59:14.803 and what was not a gap, 00:59:14.803 --> 00:59:17.440 there was a decision of the legislator 00:59:17.440 --> 00:59:19.630 that said: "If we restrict 00:59:19.630 --> 00:59:22.705 further software developers, 00:59:22.705 --> 00:59:27.114 create cracks to unprotect 00:59:27.114 --> 00:59:29.322 a certain work with anti copy systems, 00:59:29.322 --> 00:59:31.405 it turns out To these creators 00:59:31.405 --> 00:59:33.233 of intellectual works, 00:59:33.233 --> 00:59:36.448 we are putting a lock 00:59:36.448 --> 00:59:40.389 that will keep them from creating, 00:59:40.389 --> 00:59:41.454 for fear that their technology 00:59:41.454 --> 00:59:42.683 will be used for illicit purposes. 00:59:42.683 --> 00:59:44.177 In this struggle between 00:59:44.177 --> 00:59:46.201 creators of intellectual works, 00:59:46.201 --> 00:59:48.439 has won by defeat, the industry 00:59:48.439 --> 00:59:52.408 of non-functional works, 00:59:52.408 --> 00:59:56.137 compared to that of functional works, 00:59:56.137 --> 00:59:58.325 and that is the legislative landscape 00:59:58.325 --> 01:00:01.237 with which we find now, 01:00:01.237 --> 01:00:03.381 despite all the exchange 01:00:03.381 --> 01:00:06.365 of works Intellectuals continue their course, 01:00:06.365 --> 01:00:08.986 whether in peer-to-peer networks, 01:00:08.986 --> 01:00:11.162 because as you know 01:00:11.162 --> 01:00:12.986 there are peer to peer networks, 01:00:12.986 --> 01:00:14.536 which are created with free software, 01:00:14.536 --> 01:00:16.043 with exposed guts, 01:00:16.043 --> 01:00:18.779 and that do not have a specific head, 01:00:18.779 --> 01:00:20.700 but thousands of heads, 01:00:20.700 --> 01:00:22.490 that collaboratively create their code, 01:00:22.490 --> 01:00:24.389 and that are simply impossible to stop, 01:00:24.389 --> 01:00:27.272 and if they could stop, 01:00:27.272 --> 01:00:28.935 we know that you can not, 01:00:28.935 --> 01:00:31.571 therefore a Pop Corn Time is born, 01:00:31.571 --> 01:00:33.714 or is born any other way 01:00:33.714 --> 01:00:36.133 of exchanging intellectual works, 01:00:36.133 --> 01:00:37.818 which can not be stopped , 01:00:37.818 --> 01:00:40.481 this is known in the Ministry of Culture, 01:00:40.481 --> 01:00:42.557 he fully knew when he was 01:00:42.557 --> 01:00:44.364 Minister of Culture Wert, 01:00:44.364 --> 01:00:47.062 he said that to be able to be 01:00:47.062 --> 01:00:50.428 updated to new technologies, 01:00:50.428 --> 01:00:52.034 to be able to stop this, so that 01:00:52.034 --> 01:00:55.089 the law is abreast of new technologies, 01:00:55.089 --> 01:00:56.771 that it was necessary to do 01:00:56.771 --> 01:00:58.070 an Intellectual Property Law 01:00:58.070 --> 01:00:59.717 every three months, 01:00:59.717 --> 01:01:07.296 I think it fails even in that idea, 01:01:07.296 --> 01:01:10.159 since it is said that 01:01:10.159 --> 01:01:12.640 the Intellectual Property Law 01:01:12.640 --> 01:01:14.563 will be changed in a specific sense, 01:01:14.563 --> 01:01:17.704 until the law is effectively publishes 01:01:17.704 --> 01:01:19.342 and enters into force, 01:01:19.342 --> 01:01:20.760 passes the "vacatio legis", 01:01:20.760 --> 01:01:22.698 have already come different ways of exchanging, 01:01:22.698 --> 01:01:29.284 have jumped that new barrier, 01:01:29.284 --> 01:01:31.118 that was very well with the case of Sinde. 01:01:31.118 --> 01:01:34.805 When they took out the Sinde Law, 01:01:34.805 --> 01:01:38.015 I was called to speak at 01:01:38.015 --> 01:01:40.256 the San Sebastian Film Festival, 01:01:40.256 --> 01:01:42.093 and I thought I would talk to 01:01:42.093 --> 01:01:43.639 the filmmakers there, 01:01:43.639 --> 01:01:45.000 precisely two things, 01:01:45.000 --> 01:01:48.219 one that I thought the goal they were 01:01:48.219 --> 01:01:50.009 getting was with the hand, 01:01:50.009 --> 01:01:53.406 because the judge simply did not change 01:01:53.406 --> 01:01:56.204 the rules of the game, 01:01:56.204 --> 01:01:57.721 which were still legal, 01:01:57.721 --> 01:01:59.556 what they did was break 01:01:59.556 --> 01:02:01.256 the separation of powers, and say, 01:02:01.256 --> 01:02:02.795 we opened an administrative route, 01:02:02.795 --> 01:02:04.557 and we changed the referees of the conflict, 01:02:04.557 --> 01:02:08.337 it seemed that they were looking for a short cut, 01:02:08.337 --> 01:02:10.118 it seemed that the goal was 01:02:10.118 --> 01:02:12.235 trying to insert with the hand, 01:02:12.235 --> 01:02:15.127 but also did not enter the goal, 01:02:15.127 --> 01:02:18.196 so it also does not score, 01:02:18.196 --> 01:02:20.772 try to make a goal with the hand, 01:02:20.772 --> 01:02:23.874 but neither They got it. 01:02:23.874 --> 01:02:28.670 I tried to make a kind of experiment, 01:02:28.670 --> 01:02:30.041 in the 20 minutes I was there, 01:02:30.041 --> 01:02:31.410 with two other colleagues, 01:02:31.410 --> 01:02:32.939 Nacho Vigalondo was at the table 01:02:32.939 --> 01:02:35.668 and another person, in the 20, 30 minutes 01:02:35.668 --> 01:02:37.295 I had to speak, 01:02:37.295 --> 01:02:38.899 precisely the Sinde law, 01:02:38.899 --> 01:02:41.607 What I did was an experiment 01:02:41.607 --> 01:02:43.329 called Sinde table, 01:02:43.329 --> 01:02:44.805 I put a hashtag on twitter 01:02:44.805 --> 01:02:46.653 with the name Sinde table, 01:02:46.653 --> 01:02:48.124 and I did not want to say 01:02:48.124 --> 01:02:50.273 anything to not ruin the experiment, 01:02:50.273 --> 01:02:52.030 to the tweeters who were there, 01:02:52.030 --> 01:02:54.911 I just said with the hashtag table Sinde, 01:02:54.911 --> 01:02:57.231 to he hour that begins my paper, 01:02:57.231 --> 01:03:01.244 I will ask something to talk about 01:03:01.244 --> 01:03:06.277 the inability to stop the pages link 01:03:06.277 --> 01:03:09.857 with the law Sinde, because the Sinde law, 01:03:09.857 --> 01:03:11.414 boasted of being able to close 01:03:11.414 --> 01:03:14.072 a page of links in four months, 01:03:14.072 --> 01:03:16.019 then took much more , 01:03:16.019 --> 01:03:17.909 but they said four months, 01:03:17.909 --> 01:03:22.908 well, what we did was, open a page in 01:03:22.908 --> 01:03:25.956 Google Docs to create a database, 01:03:25.956 --> 01:03:28.560 page of links, only had a limitation, 01:03:28.560 --> 01:03:31.355 they could start to send the links, 01:03:31.355 --> 01:03:33.478 from the moment in that I began to speak, 01:03:33.478 --> 01:03:37.277 and ended when I finished speaking, 01:03:37.277 --> 01:03:39.429 to see how long it takes to make 01:03:39.429 --> 01:03:44.383 a page of links to intellectual works, 01:03:44.383 --> 01:03:46.982 which are elsewhere, 01:03:46.982 --> 01:03:48.609 in the time it took to speak, 01:03:48.609 --> 01:03:51.766 about the ineffectiveness of a Law, 01:03:51.766 --> 01:03:53.707 after half an hour at the end 01:03:53.707 --> 01:03:55.485 of the conference, I told the attendees, 01:03:55.485 --> 01:03:59.172 I did an experiment that I did not tell you, 01:03:59.172 --> 01:04:01.241 when I started to speak this hashtag, 01:04:01.241 --> 01:04:04.518 and this is what has happened, 01:04:04.518 --> 01:04:06.329 they created twenty link pages, 01:04:06.329 --> 01:04:10.349 they had they open several pages in Google Docs, 01:04:10.349 --> 01:04:12.720 because they made a database so extensive, 01:04:12.720 --> 01:04:15.083 it did not fit and fell continuously, 01:04:15.083 --> 01:04:17.049 so they opened several mirrors, 01:04:17.049 --> 01:04:18.626 and created 20 pages of links, 01:04:18.626 --> 01:04:22.378 in the time it takes a conference on effectiveness, 01:04:22.378 --> 01:04:24.118 Or ineffectiveness of the Sinde law, 01:04:24.118 --> 01:04:26.278 which was to close them in four months, 01:04:26.278 --> 01:04:28.400 simply explained to the people there, 01:04:28.400 --> 01:04:30.609 is that what you want to close 01:04:30.609 --> 01:04:32.032 is the index of the encyclopedia, 01:04:32.032 --> 01:04:33.839 but the encyclopedia still exists, 01:04:33.839 --> 01:04:35.606 and there are very easy ways 01:04:35.606 --> 01:04:37.523 to create an index in a matter of minutes. 01:04:37.523 --> 01:04:40.570 Of course the director of the festival 01:04:40.570 --> 01:04:44.040 was very angry, and I have not gone to 01:04:44.040 --> 01:04:45.430 the San Sebastian Film Festival, 01:04:45.430 --> 01:04:46.875 I have not been invited anymore, 01:04:46.875 --> 01:04:48.009 for whatever reason. 01:04:48.009 --> 01:04:52.178 Rebordinos, who is the director 01:04:52.178 --> 01:04:53.693 of the San Sebastian Film Festival, 01:04:53.693 --> 01:04:56.563 asked him the same day in "El País", 01:04:56.563 --> 01:04:57.851 what did the experiment look like, 01:04:57.851 --> 01:04:59.660 because the experiment had a lot of movement, 01:04:59.660 --> 01:05:01.712 in fact it was a worldwide trending topic, 01:05:01.712 --> 01:05:05.728 only surpassed by the hashtag of the word vagina 01:05:05.728 --> 01:05:11.894 of but in short, was a very worthy second position, 01:05:11.894 --> 01:05:17.295 and there was a lot of movement with that question, 01:05:17.295 --> 01:05:19.851 the media called all parties asking what happened at 01:05:19.851 --> 01:05:21.651 the San Sebastian Film Festival?, 01:05:21.651 --> 01:05:24.773 and called Rebordinos was very angry and said: 01:05:24.773 --> 01:05:26.879 this gentleman has not been called 01:05:26.879 --> 01:05:28.334 here to mount this, 01:05:28.334 --> 01:05:30.718 he has been called to talk about trans-media film, 01:05:30.718 --> 01:05:32.523 I was surprised because 01:05:32.523 --> 01:05:36.368 I do not know what trans-media cinema is, 01:05:36.368 --> 01:05:39.117 everyone knows what I'm talking about, anyway, 01:05:39.117 --> 01:05:40.988 I went there only instead of talking, 01:05:40.988 --> 01:05:42.413 I tried to prove what I was saying, 01:05:42.413 --> 01:05:45.908 and that seemed to go a little too far, 01:05:45.908 --> 01:05:48.395 it's allowed to give your opinion but not to show it. 01:05:48.395 --> 01:05:51.945 Then he became very angry, 01:05:51.945 --> 01:05:55.725 and when asked two or three weeks later, 01:05:55.725 --> 01:05:57.935 the San Sebastian film festival, 01:05:57.935 --> 01:05:59.683 what had been the best and 01:05:59.683 --> 01:06:01.511 worst moment of the festival? 01:06:01.511 --> 01:06:03.986 said: The best had been talking to 01:06:03.986 --> 01:06:06.207 Glenn Close of cooking recipes, 01:06:06.207 --> 01:06:08.599 who can compete with that, 01:06:08.599 --> 01:06:10.936 and what the worst, 01:06:10.936 --> 01:06:12.580 although you can not speak 01:06:12.580 --> 01:06:14.357 of one that is the worst, 01:06:14.357 --> 01:06:16.104 but that I was the worst moment of 01:06:16.104 --> 01:06:19.638 the Film Festival San Sebastian, 01:06:19.638 --> 01:06:21.637 but it was quite funny, 01:06:21.637 --> 01:06:24.717 and in definite accounts although this would close 01:06:24.717 --> 01:06:26.427 the doors of the cinema, 01:06:26.427 --> 01:06:28.236 something was demonstrated, 01:06:28.236 --> 01:06:29.841 and put on the mat, 01:06:29.841 --> 01:06:31.428 something that seems interesting, 01:06:31.428 --> 01:06:34.942 what is done when a reality is impossible to stop?. 01:06:34.942 --> 01:06:38.417 There is an American economist 01:06:38.417 --> 01:06:42.095 who said that this download of the internet 01:06:42.095 --> 01:06:43.955 was like the Law of Economic Gravity, 01:06:43.955 --> 01:06:46.550 he was trying to say that 01:06:46.550 --> 01:06:49.516 if you took a pen and released it, the pen fell, 01:06:49.516 --> 01:06:53.941 and you can be against that happening, 01:06:53.941 --> 01:06:56.955 And that you think it morally 01:06:56.955 --> 01:07:00.595 very reprehensible that that happens, 01:07:00.595 --> 01:07:03.178 and make thousands of laws that prohibit it, 01:07:03.178 --> 01:07:05.646 and after all those campaigns 01:07:05.646 --> 01:07:07.910 saying how bad it seems to you, 01:07:07.910 --> 01:07:09.655 after making thousands of 01:07:09.655 --> 01:07:11.237 laws that prohibit the fall of the pen, 01:07:11.237 --> 01:07:12.869 someone will release a ball pen 01:07:12.869 --> 01:07:14.507 somewhere and it will fall again, 01:07:14.507 --> 01:07:17.372 the guy said that the download of the internet 01:07:17.372 --> 01:07:19.223 was like the Law of Gravity, 01:07:19.223 --> 01:07:21.011 and that there was little to do, 01:07:21.011 --> 01:07:23.984 that what had to be done was to find an alternative, 01:07:23.984 --> 01:07:27.529 so that the Creators, being a social benefit, 01:07:27.529 --> 01:07:30.358 continue to create, and have an incentive to create, 01:07:30.358 --> 01:07:32.634 and that could only be achieved, 01:07:32.634 --> 01:07:35.325 with changes in business models, 01:07:35.325 --> 01:07:37.880 and changes also in the remuneration systems 01:07:37.880 --> 01:07:39.530 of creators, the guy said, 01:07:39.530 --> 01:07:43.882 That in the days where the peer to peer networks 01:07:43.882 --> 01:07:45.903 was the most attended, 01:07:45.903 --> 01:07:48.429 said that the content industry, 01:07:48.429 --> 01:07:51.063 this was said long before "Spotify", 01:07:51.063 --> 01:07:53.335 long before "Netflix", or long before Filmin, 01:07:53.335 --> 01:07:55.466 "Said that the content industry had 01:07:55.466 --> 01:07:57.469 something that put them in a 01:07:57.469 --> 01:07:58.950 very special competitive advantage, 01:07:58.950 --> 01:08:00.887 ahead of the "peer to peer" networks, 01:08:00.887 --> 01:08:02.502 those old "peer to peer" networks, 01:08:02.502 --> 01:08:06.377 said: look at the content industry, 01:08:06.377 --> 01:08:08.628 they have first the content before anyone else, 01:08:08.628 --> 01:08:15.731 and can launch a peer to peer network 01:08:15.731 --> 01:08:18.485 system remunerated for example with advertising, 01:08:18.485 --> 01:08:20.724 or with subscription systems, 01:08:20.724 --> 01:08:23.791 such as after Netflix was born, 01:08:23.791 --> 01:08:27.795 and many think that gratuitousness is 01:08:27.795 --> 01:08:30.594 the only reason it does that a mass of 01:08:30.594 --> 01:08:36.910 potential clients will go from one place to another, 01:08:36.910 --> 01:08:39.459 but it turns out not, that we can present 01:08:39.459 --> 01:08:41.955 several systems, one that is free, 01:08:41.955 --> 01:08:45.025 others "freemiun", other "premium", 01:08:45.025 --> 01:08:48.181 and we can get those guys to get us have gone, 01:08:48.181 --> 01:08:50.437 instead of chasing them with a stick to go back 01:08:50.437 --> 01:08:52.462 to our stores, 01:08:52.462 --> 01:08:56.689 to attract them with an alternative proposal, 01:08:56.689 --> 01:08:59.501 to seduce them in some way, 01:08:59.501 --> 01:09:02.063 said that peer to peer networks have some 01:09:02.063 --> 01:09:04.404 negative issues, has the positive that is the price, 01:09:04.404 --> 01:09:08.210 which is the fact that you can, 01:09:08.210 --> 01:09:09.828 download it without paying for what you download, 01:09:09.828 --> 01:09:11.099 but it has some negatives, 01:09:11.099 --> 01:09:12.975 which a professional service like ours could remove, 01:09:12.975 --> 01:09:14.562 have queue waiting, 01:09:14.562 --> 01:09:17.123 we are talking about the times of "Emule" 01:09:17.123 --> 01:09:21.061 has the possibility to infect you with viruses, 01:09:21.061 --> 01:09:23.467 you have the possibility of fake you, 01:09:23.467 --> 01:09:26.919 the famous "fake" as a classic example is: 01:09:26.919 --> 01:09:31.115 you download a classic movie, 01:09:31.115 --> 01:09:35.846 and in the end is a porn movie, or vice versa, 01:09:35.846 --> 01:09:38.542 you can also , And that is almost worse, 01:09:38.542 --> 01:09:44.464 that you download a porn movie, and be a classic, 01:09:44.464 --> 01:09:46.615 anyway, the fact is that it is not what 01:09:46.615 --> 01:09:48.499 you were looking for, or that you download 01:09:48.499 --> 01:09:52.114 "Lies and Fat", and "Lies and Fat" 01:09:52.114 --> 01:09:54.647 In short that some of this happens, 01:09:54.647 --> 01:09:56.238 and said we can go here, 01:09:56.238 --> 01:09:59.943 and then came out "Spotify", 01:09:59.943 --> 01:10:02.727 and then came out "Netflix", 01:10:02.727 --> 01:10:04.730 and it has been proven, 01:10:04.730 --> 01:10:06.920 that if there is something that downloads 01:10:06.920 --> 01:10:10.875 they are not the proper names of Sinde, Wert, Lasalle, 01:10:10.875 --> 01:10:13.751 but rather are their own names similar to 01:10:13.751 --> 01:10:16.434 "Netflix", "Filmim", "Spotify", 01:10:16.434 --> 01:10:18.710 and it was also said that in France, 01:10:18.710 --> 01:10:20.240 a system was proposed in the past, 01:10:20.240 --> 01:10:22.853 basically following the thought, 01:10:22.853 --> 01:10:24.897 that what is taken advantage of by all, 01:10:24.897 --> 01:10:26.799 must be held by all, 01:10:26.799 --> 01:10:29.560 and spoke of the optional general license, 01:10:29.560 --> 01:10:32.411 an amount you pay is a form of tax, 01:10:32.411 --> 01:10:35.643 which differs from the famous "Canon" to CDs, 01:10:35.643 --> 01:10:38.318 in the fact of the word Optional, 01:10:38.318 --> 01:10:40.815 we speak of general license as an option, 01:10:40.815 --> 01:10:42.456 that is to say it was paid by 01:10:42.456 --> 01:10:44.429 those who actually used it, 01:10:44.429 --> 01:10:46.092 or would use the network for this, 01:10:46.092 --> 01:10:47.762 and paid it not to the "Sgae" 01:10:47.762 --> 01:10:49.240 to distribute it among its partners, 01:10:49.240 --> 01:10:51.135 nor to the other seven entities Of management, 01:10:51.135 --> 01:10:52.707 but paid it to the state that distributed 01:10:52.707 --> 01:10:56.096 it among the authors, 01:10:56.096 --> 01:10:58.694 who identified themselves with certain watermarks, 01:10:58.694 --> 01:11:00.876 in a system similar to that proposed to 01:11:00.876 --> 01:11:02.791 Richard Stallman and William Fisher, 01:11:02.791 --> 01:11:04.797 both were cited in the book "Free Culture" 01:11:04.797 --> 01:11:07.666 by Lawrence Lessig, 01:11:07.666 --> 01:11:10.005 when we talked about this impasse, 01:11:10.005 --> 01:11:11.637 where it seemed that we had arrived, 01:11:11.637 --> 01:11:14.502 and which had been advanced Lessig said, 01:11:14.502 --> 01:11:18.864 to the conflict several years in advance, 01:11:18.864 --> 01:11:21.560 had seen as a visionary that this was not 01:11:21.560 --> 01:11:23.256 going to reach no part, 01:11:23.256 --> 01:11:26.695 long before we saw that the alley was dead-end, 01:11:26.695 --> 01:11:28.775 and already proposed an exit in these terms, 01:11:28.775 --> 01:11:31.497 and in France was not only rejected, 01:11:31.497 --> 01:11:34.243 but what they did was to impose the Hadopi law, 01:11:34.243 --> 01:11:37.047 which was to cut the connection 01:11:37.047 --> 01:11:40.147 of those who connected to peer to peer networks. 01:11:40.147 --> 01:11:41.816 In the United States, 01:11:41.816 --> 01:11:45.276 they proposed not only to cut the connection 01:11:45.276 --> 01:11:47.148 of those who connect to peer to peer networks, 01:11:47.148 --> 01:11:49.021 but to destroy by remote control, 01:11:49.021 --> 01:11:51.975 the computer from which they connect 01:11:51.975 --> 01:11:53.559 to peer to peer networks. 01:11:53.559 --> 01:11:56.594 US Senator Orrin Hatch who was also a composer 01:11:56.594 --> 01:12:01.166 and had the poor head lost, and rejected it, 01:12:01.166 --> 01:12:03.168 but although they rejected this 01:12:03.168 --> 01:12:05.192 in the United States, 01:12:05.192 --> 01:12:08.240 the level of punishment to try to stop 01:12:08.240 --> 01:12:10.771 what was unstoppable rose so much, 01:12:10.771 --> 01:12:12.611 that the fine that can fall 01:12:12.611 --> 01:12:14.066 for downloading two songs, 01:12:14.066 --> 01:12:17.296 is greater than the maximum fine 01:12:17.296 --> 01:12:22.002 that can fall to a doctor, 01:12:22.002 --> 01:12:24.330 who mistakenly amputates a good leg, 01:12:24.330 --> 01:12:26.195 why? because 01:12:26.195 --> 01:12:28.345 precisely because we spoke at the beginning, 01:12:28.345 --> 01:12:29.946 because they found that neither 01:12:29.946 --> 01:12:30.987 with the demands a Brianna LaHara, 01:12:30.987 --> 01:12:32.855 nor with the demands of Gertrude Walton, 01:12:32.855 --> 01:12:34.560 were able to stop this reality, 01:12:34.560 --> 01:12:36.221 and they continued raising the level of punishment, 01:12:36.221 --> 01:12:38.376 until reaching these bizarre limits, 01:12:38.376 --> 01:12:40.004 and then came out "Netflix", 01:12:40.004 --> 01:12:42.094 and then came out "Spotify", 01:12:42.094 --> 01:12:43.959 because it seems that in some Countries 01:12:43.959 --> 01:12:46.004 is already coming to the conclusion 01:12:46.004 --> 01:12:47.778 that no matter how much we change the laws, 01:12:47.778 --> 01:12:49.746 somewhere there will be someone 01:12:49.746 --> 01:12:51.355 who will pick up the pen, 01:12:51.355 --> 01:12:53.676 it will jump and it will fall. 01:12:53.676 --> 01:12:55.899 This is all friends thanks. 01:12:56.658 --> 01:13:03.164 Hecho por : MIGUEL POMBOZA GUADALUPE