1 00:00:02,094 --> 00:00:04,677 (bell tolling) 2 00:00:09,005 --> 00:00:10,693 - [Alan] Niccolo Machiavelli, 3 00:00:10,693 --> 00:00:13,312 16th-century Italian diplomat, 4 00:00:13,312 --> 00:00:15,895 political thinker, arch-baddie. 5 00:00:16,797 --> 00:00:18,699 His name conjures up everything 6 00:00:18,699 --> 00:00:21,933 that's sly about human behavior. 7 00:00:21,933 --> 00:00:24,162 - Well, we have an image of what the Machiavellian is. 8 00:00:24,162 --> 00:00:26,907 I mean, the word is in our dictionaries, he is an adjective. 9 00:00:26,907 --> 00:00:31,089 - [Man] "Machiavellian: astute, cunning, intriguing." 10 00:00:31,089 --> 00:00:33,566 - Controlling, powerful. 11 00:00:33,566 --> 00:00:35,696 - Sinister, underhand. 12 00:00:35,696 --> 00:00:37,325 - Devious, scheming. 13 00:00:37,325 --> 00:00:38,825 - Cunning, subtle. 14 00:00:40,141 --> 00:00:42,224 - Nefarious, manipulative 15 00:00:43,099 --> 00:00:45,016 and to a degree, cruel. 16 00:00:46,160 --> 00:00:48,673 - Peter Mandelson regularly gets described as Machiavellian, 17 00:00:48,673 --> 00:00:52,604 I was regularly described as Machiavellian. 18 00:00:52,604 --> 00:00:55,750 - [Alan] And it's all because of this: The Prince, 19 00:00:55,750 --> 00:00:57,591 written 500 years ago. 20 00:00:57,591 --> 00:01:01,778 It's about power, how to get it and how to keep it. 21 00:01:01,778 --> 00:01:04,215 - "It can be said of men that they are ungrateful, 22 00:01:04,215 --> 00:01:06,085 "fickle liars and deceivers. 23 00:01:06,085 --> 00:01:09,364 "They shun danger and are greedy for profit. 24 00:01:09,364 --> 00:01:11,663 "Therefore, it is necessary for a ruler 25 00:01:11,663 --> 00:01:13,807 "who wishes to maintain his position 26 00:01:13,807 --> 00:01:17,224 "to learn how to be able not to be good." 27 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:21,850 - [Alan] Machiavelli wrote The Prince in 1513. 28 00:01:21,850 --> 00:01:25,009 It was shocking then and it's shocking now. 29 00:01:25,009 --> 00:01:27,574 - It's almost as if his name, itself, machi-evil, 30 00:01:27,574 --> 00:01:30,822 it just lends itself to a form of demonization. 31 00:01:30,822 --> 00:01:34,370 - "Chapter 17, of cruelty and mercy, 32 00:01:34,370 --> 00:01:37,723 "and whether it is better to be loved than feared. 33 00:01:37,723 --> 00:01:39,297 "Or the contrary." 34 00:01:39,297 --> 00:01:40,935 - There is absolutely nobody in history 35 00:01:40,935 --> 00:01:44,825 who's had more influence on modern affairs, on politics, 36 00:01:44,825 --> 00:01:47,588 than Niccolo Machiavelli. 37 00:01:47,588 --> 00:01:49,484 - [Alan] So what are we to make of The Prince on this, 38 00:01:49,484 --> 00:01:51,879 its 500th anniversary? 39 00:01:51,879 --> 00:01:54,811 How useful and relevant is it today? 40 00:01:54,811 --> 00:01:57,038 - One of the most important books ever written 41 00:01:57,038 --> 00:02:01,205 and a really useful how-to guide for contemporary reality. 42 00:02:02,391 --> 00:02:03,899 - [Alan] Was Machiavelli right? 43 00:02:03,899 --> 00:02:06,715 Should we all learn how not to be good? 44 00:02:06,715 --> 00:02:09,113 Is it better to be feared than loved? 45 00:02:09,113 --> 00:02:12,780 And who are the 21st-century Machiavellians? 46 00:02:13,816 --> 00:02:16,566 (dramatic music) 47 00:02:20,212 --> 00:02:24,379 (birds chirping) (wings fluttering) 48 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:29,507 (ominous music) 49 00:02:33,893 --> 00:02:35,654 Actually, we're not in Florence. 50 00:02:35,654 --> 00:02:39,346 we're 10 miles south of Florence in San Casciano. 51 00:02:39,346 --> 00:02:42,611 This was Machiavelli's country house in the 1500s 52 00:02:42,611 --> 00:02:44,664 and I'm here for a guided tour. 53 00:02:44,664 --> 00:02:46,997 (knocking) 54 00:02:49,499 --> 00:02:53,893 (speaking in foreign language) 55 00:02:53,893 --> 00:02:55,272 Where he wrote The Prince? 56 00:02:55,272 --> 00:02:56,880 - Si, exactly. 57 00:02:56,880 --> 00:02:57,743 - [Alan] And what is this? 58 00:02:57,743 --> 00:02:59,663 - That is his coat of arms. 59 00:02:59,663 --> 00:03:01,448 His family's coat of arm. 60 00:03:01,448 --> 00:03:03,180 The cross and the nails. 61 00:03:03,180 --> 00:03:04,208 - [Alan] The cross and the nails. 62 00:03:04,208 --> 00:03:05,105 - [Lucia] Mmm-hmm. 63 00:03:05,105 --> 00:03:06,018 Machiavelli. 64 00:03:06,018 --> 00:03:07,476 - [Alan] What does that mean? 65 00:03:07,476 --> 00:03:11,703 - It refers back to his name, Machiavelli, 66 00:03:11,703 --> 00:03:15,870 so related with the cross and the nails of Christ. 67 00:03:18,675 --> 00:03:21,018 - [Alan] Not a bad coat of arms for a man who, 68 00:03:21,018 --> 00:03:24,736 for centuries, was known as the Antichrist. 69 00:03:24,736 --> 00:03:26,811 But the cross and nails might just as well stand 70 00:03:26,811 --> 00:03:30,811 for the violent times Machiavelli lived through. 71 00:03:32,193 --> 00:03:34,413 - Florence was a city-state, 72 00:03:34,413 --> 00:03:37,577 occupying and controlling only a very small portion 73 00:03:37,577 --> 00:03:39,466 of a very chaotic Italy, 74 00:03:39,466 --> 00:03:43,387 surrounded by other city-states that were allies on Tuesday, 75 00:03:43,387 --> 00:03:46,819 enemies on Wednesday and then allies again on Thursday. 76 00:03:46,819 --> 00:03:49,471 The situation was constantly changing. 77 00:03:49,471 --> 00:03:50,614 It was very treacherous, 78 00:03:50,614 --> 00:03:52,121 you didn't know who your friends were 79 00:03:52,121 --> 00:03:53,876 and you couldn't trust anyone, 80 00:03:53,876 --> 00:03:55,959 so they had to be clever. 81 00:03:58,665 --> 00:04:00,280 - [Alan] Before he wrote The Prince, 82 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:04,257 Machiavelli worked here at the Palazzio Vecchio in Florence. 83 00:04:04,257 --> 00:04:08,349 The old regime, run by the Medici, had just been deposed. 84 00:04:08,349 --> 00:04:11,478 A new regime was in charge and Machiavelli served them 85 00:04:11,478 --> 00:04:13,645 as a high-flying diplomat. 86 00:04:14,576 --> 00:04:17,286 - Machiavelli found himself at the center 87 00:04:17,286 --> 00:04:18,975 of all the diplomatic and political 88 00:04:18,975 --> 00:04:21,968 negotiations within that period. 89 00:04:21,968 --> 00:04:24,293 And it was his ability as a political analyst 90 00:04:24,293 --> 00:04:26,626 that enabled him to advance. 91 00:04:28,362 --> 00:04:29,552 - [Alan] But just when things were going 92 00:04:29,552 --> 00:04:31,270 so well for Machiavelli, 93 00:04:31,270 --> 00:04:33,195 the Medici returned to power 94 00:04:33,195 --> 00:04:35,885 and events took a dramatic turn, 95 00:04:35,885 --> 00:04:38,010 events that would ultimately lead 96 00:04:38,010 --> 00:04:40,427 to the writing of The Prince. 97 00:04:41,310 --> 00:04:45,163 - He was falsely accused in February of 1513 98 00:04:45,163 --> 00:04:47,985 of taking part in an anti-Medician conspiracy. 99 00:04:47,985 --> 00:04:49,807 And he's horribly tortured. 100 00:04:49,807 --> 00:04:52,557 And then he's thrown into prison. 101 00:04:55,593 --> 00:04:56,838 - [Alan] There aren't many documents 102 00:04:56,838 --> 00:04:59,372 relating to Machiavelli at this time. 103 00:04:59,372 --> 00:05:02,271 But this year British historian Stephen Milner 104 00:05:02,271 --> 00:05:05,316 discovered one of the most important of all. 105 00:05:05,316 --> 00:05:08,123 He was researching Florentine town criers 106 00:05:08,123 --> 00:05:12,290 when he stumbled across Machiavelli's arrest warrant. 107 00:05:13,139 --> 00:05:16,263 - Florence was an incredible place for collecting documents, 108 00:05:16,263 --> 00:05:18,067 partly because they didn't trust each other. 109 00:05:18,067 --> 00:05:20,549 They were, where are we? 110 00:05:20,549 --> 00:05:21,382 There we go. 111 00:05:21,382 --> 00:05:22,829 - Oh, there we go. 112 00:05:22,829 --> 00:05:25,718 So, this is it? You just happened to... 113 00:05:25,718 --> 00:05:28,020 - I ordered this particular volume, 114 00:05:28,020 --> 00:05:30,098 and this was the one that contained 115 00:05:30,098 --> 00:05:32,265 the original proclamation. 116 00:05:33,410 --> 00:05:35,987 It was carried through the city by the town crier, 117 00:05:35,987 --> 00:05:38,509 and that, they actually would have read and held 118 00:05:38,509 --> 00:05:42,210 whilst on horseback through the various places 119 00:05:42,210 --> 00:05:45,843 where these proclamations were made. 120 00:05:45,843 --> 00:05:47,174 You can see there's a little hole in the middle 121 00:05:47,174 --> 00:05:50,206 where they put them on a spike for record-keeping. 122 00:05:50,206 --> 00:05:53,637 And here we see Niccolo di me se Bernardo Machiavelli. 123 00:05:53,637 --> 00:05:55,344 - So, what is the arrest for? 124 00:05:55,344 --> 00:05:57,088 - The proclamation is asking, 125 00:05:57,088 --> 00:05:59,551 it's a notice asking for the whereabouts of Machiavelli 126 00:05:59,551 --> 00:06:01,755 and for people to come forward with information. 127 00:06:01,755 --> 00:06:04,097 It actually says within the hour, 128 00:06:04,097 --> 00:06:06,544 (speaking in foreign language) 129 00:06:06,544 --> 00:06:08,382 which gives you some idea of the urgency 130 00:06:08,382 --> 00:06:10,181 that lay behind his arrest. 131 00:06:10,181 --> 00:06:12,270 And it says, "If they are not informed, 132 00:06:12,270 --> 00:06:14,614 "they will not be excused." 133 00:06:14,614 --> 00:06:16,984 So there were no excuses for not notifying. 134 00:06:16,984 --> 00:06:18,248 - [Alan] Tough stuff. (chuckles) 135 00:06:18,248 --> 00:06:22,009 - It is a kind of most-wanted proclamation, if you like. 136 00:06:22,009 --> 00:06:23,739 I think working in the archives in Florence, 137 00:06:23,739 --> 00:06:26,598 it's kind of a drug, in a sense, of archive fever. 138 00:06:26,598 --> 00:06:28,296 You never know when you turn a page 139 00:06:28,296 --> 00:06:30,308 what you're going to bump into. 140 00:06:30,308 --> 00:06:33,631 There's a lovely proverb from the Renaissance 141 00:06:33,631 --> 00:06:34,806 period that says, 142 00:06:34,806 --> 00:06:36,974 (speaking in foreign language) 143 00:06:36,974 --> 00:06:39,703 "Get it in writing, you can't trust anybody." 144 00:06:39,703 --> 00:06:41,566 It's almost a kind of mantra for 145 00:06:41,566 --> 00:06:44,483 Machiavelli's own writing, I think. 146 00:06:48,815 --> 00:06:50,350 - Well, here we are in the Bargello, 147 00:06:50,350 --> 00:06:52,799 which is the Florentine police headquarters, 148 00:06:52,799 --> 00:06:55,037 and this is where Machiavelli was brought 149 00:06:55,037 --> 00:06:57,537 shortly after he was arrested. 150 00:06:59,617 --> 00:07:01,103 He claimed that he was tortured, 151 00:07:01,103 --> 00:07:03,370 that he was actually put on a form of rack, 152 00:07:03,370 --> 00:07:07,537 that he went three notches on the rack without cracking. 153 00:07:08,705 --> 00:07:09,863 But there's absolutely no evidence 154 00:07:09,863 --> 00:07:13,196 that he was involved in this conspiracy. 155 00:07:16,614 --> 00:07:18,920 - But he has a stroke of good fortune as well, 156 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:21,499 which is, the next month, 157 00:07:21,499 --> 00:07:23,780 the Pope Julius dies 158 00:07:23,780 --> 00:07:27,197 and the Medici acquire the papacy, Leo X. 159 00:07:28,748 --> 00:07:32,675 And he declares great rejoicings in the city and an amnesty, 160 00:07:32,675 --> 00:07:35,008 and so Machiavelli is freed. 161 00:07:36,438 --> 00:07:39,144 - [Stephen] But he was in effect banned from the city, 162 00:07:39,144 --> 00:07:41,079 he was sent out to his farmhouse 163 00:07:41,079 --> 00:07:42,984 and kept under house arrest. 164 00:07:42,984 --> 00:07:44,256 Rather like being on probation, 165 00:07:44,256 --> 00:07:47,208 he had to remain within a certain distance of the city 166 00:07:47,208 --> 00:07:48,753 and that's where, in his study, he began to write 167 00:07:48,753 --> 00:07:51,336 what we now know as The Prince. 168 00:07:52,869 --> 00:07:54,286 - And here he is. 169 00:07:58,937 --> 00:08:01,203 - "Those who wish to win the favor of a prince 170 00:08:01,203 --> 00:08:02,868 "will generally approach him 171 00:08:02,868 --> 00:08:05,149 "with gifts they believe will most delight him. 172 00:08:05,149 --> 00:08:08,728 "Hence we see princes being offered horses, arms, 173 00:08:08,728 --> 00:08:12,068 "vestments of gold and similar accoutrements. 174 00:08:12,068 --> 00:08:14,621 "I have found among my possessions 175 00:08:14,621 --> 00:08:16,709 "nothing I value higher 176 00:08:16,709 --> 00:08:21,232 "than my knowledge of the deeds of great men." 177 00:08:21,232 --> 00:08:22,503 - [Alan] This is how Machiavelli 178 00:08:22,503 --> 00:08:25,216 begins The Prince in 1513, 179 00:08:25,216 --> 00:08:27,963 with a dedication to Lorenzo the Magnificent, 180 00:08:27,963 --> 00:08:30,148 the young Medici ruler. 181 00:08:30,148 --> 00:08:34,179 It was a blatant attempt to suck up to the new regime. 182 00:08:34,179 --> 00:08:35,692 You need me, he's saying, 183 00:08:35,692 --> 00:08:38,692 because I know the secrets of power. 184 00:08:39,715 --> 00:08:43,791 The book is in essence a job application. 185 00:08:43,791 --> 00:08:47,325 - We have here The Prince manuscript. 186 00:08:47,325 --> 00:08:50,402 As you see, it is beautifully illuminated 187 00:08:50,402 --> 00:08:52,819 and it's datable about 1520s, 188 00:08:54,976 --> 00:08:58,328 and it's in the hand of the closest friend of Machiavelli, 189 00:08:58,328 --> 00:08:59,911 Biagio Buonaccorsi. 190 00:09:00,775 --> 00:09:05,312 It's one of the most eldest copy absolutely ever. 191 00:09:05,312 --> 00:09:07,062 And, as you see here, 192 00:09:09,046 --> 00:09:11,510 Niccolo Machiavelli addresses the book 193 00:09:11,510 --> 00:09:13,357 to Lorenzo The Magnificent 194 00:09:13,357 --> 00:09:15,607 and here you have no title. 195 00:09:16,475 --> 00:09:18,975 So, the book is without title. 196 00:09:20,399 --> 00:09:24,310 The Prince is the title the editors gave the book 197 00:09:24,310 --> 00:09:26,661 when the book was actually published, 198 00:09:26,661 --> 00:09:29,447 five years after the death of Machiavelli. 199 00:09:29,447 --> 00:09:33,447 This is another fascinating detail of this book. 200 00:09:34,870 --> 00:09:36,239 - [Alan] So, The Prince wasn't actually 201 00:09:36,239 --> 00:09:37,869 called The Prince 202 00:09:37,869 --> 00:09:41,073 and there are more surprises, too. 203 00:09:41,073 --> 00:09:43,041 - Well, the first thing you notice if you pick up The Prince 204 00:09:43,041 --> 00:09:45,190 is that it's an extremely short book, 205 00:09:45,190 --> 00:09:47,273 it runs to only 90 pages. 206 00:09:48,300 --> 00:09:50,038 It's a book really about two things. 207 00:09:50,038 --> 00:09:51,261 One is how to gain power, 208 00:09:51,261 --> 00:09:53,349 and that's what the first half of the book is about, 209 00:09:53,349 --> 00:09:54,822 but the rest of the book 210 00:09:54,822 --> 00:09:57,441 and the real interest for Machiavelli 211 00:09:57,441 --> 00:09:58,593 of why he wrote it is 212 00:09:58,593 --> 00:10:02,154 how do you hold on to power once you've got it? 213 00:10:02,154 --> 00:10:04,450 - "I find it more fitting to seek the truth of the matter, 214 00:10:04,450 --> 00:10:06,733 "rather than imaginary conceptions, 215 00:10:06,733 --> 00:10:08,353 "because how one lives 216 00:10:08,353 --> 00:10:11,132 "and how one ought to live are so far apart 217 00:10:11,132 --> 00:10:14,841 "that a ruler who persists in doing what ought to be done 218 00:10:14,841 --> 00:10:17,706 "will undermine his power." 219 00:10:17,706 --> 00:10:22,207 - He says, "I'm trying to write something useful, utile, 220 00:10:22,207 --> 00:10:26,265 "and so what I say in this book departs massively," 221 00:10:26,265 --> 00:10:27,863 the Italian says massima, 222 00:10:27,863 --> 00:10:30,549 "it departs massively from what anyone has ever written 223 00:10:30,549 --> 00:10:31,977 "on this subject." 224 00:10:31,977 --> 00:10:34,650 So he knows that it's a revolutionary book. 225 00:10:34,650 --> 00:10:38,543 - The intent of the book was to be a guide, 226 00:10:38,543 --> 00:10:43,323 a kind of handbook for politically ambitious leaders. 227 00:10:43,323 --> 00:10:46,658 You can play the game for good or you can play it for ill. 228 00:10:46,658 --> 00:10:50,825 For Machiavelli, it's more important to play the game well 229 00:10:52,002 --> 00:10:54,002 than to be morally good. 230 00:10:55,261 --> 00:10:58,535 - Chapter 18, Of the Need for Princes to Keep Their Word. 231 00:10:58,535 --> 00:11:00,851 "Everybody knows how commendable it is for a ruler 232 00:11:00,851 --> 00:11:03,133 "to keep his word and live by integrity 233 00:11:03,133 --> 00:11:04,862 "rather than by cunning, 234 00:11:04,862 --> 00:11:07,703 "and yet experience shows us 235 00:11:07,703 --> 00:11:10,429 "that rulers with little regard for their word 236 00:11:10,429 --> 00:11:13,354 "have achieved great things, 237 00:11:13,354 --> 00:11:16,687 "being expert at beguiling men's minds." 238 00:11:17,673 --> 00:11:19,754 - The first generation who opened this book, 239 00:11:19,754 --> 00:11:21,609 if they came to chapter 18 and read it, 240 00:11:21,609 --> 00:11:24,107 they would have been astounded by this. 241 00:11:24,107 --> 00:11:27,589 In Roman law, there is a maxim which says 242 00:11:27,589 --> 00:11:29,521 good faith must always be kept. 243 00:11:29,521 --> 00:11:30,778 You must always keep your promises. 244 00:11:30,778 --> 00:11:33,144 (speaking in foreign language) 245 00:11:33,144 --> 00:11:35,175 And that chapter was, I think, 246 00:11:35,175 --> 00:11:38,902 the one that gave it its most sinister reputation. 247 00:11:38,902 --> 00:11:41,747 - "A prince must be a fox to spot the snares 248 00:11:41,747 --> 00:11:44,664 "and a lion to overwhelm the wolves. 249 00:11:44,664 --> 00:11:46,896 "Those who rely merely upon the lion's strength 250 00:11:46,896 --> 00:11:48,646 "do not understand this. 251 00:11:48,646 --> 00:11:52,238 "Therefore, a prudent ruler cannot keep his word, 252 00:11:52,238 --> 00:11:53,484 "nor should he, 253 00:11:53,484 --> 00:11:56,186 "when it would be to his disadvantage to do so. 254 00:11:56,186 --> 00:11:59,008 "If all men were good, this rule would not stand. 255 00:11:59,008 --> 00:12:01,026 "But as men are wicked 256 00:12:01,026 --> 00:12:03,126 "and not prepared to keep their word to you, 257 00:12:03,126 --> 00:12:06,876 "you have no need to keep your word to them." 258 00:12:07,772 --> 00:12:10,449 - He knew very well the nature of human beings 259 00:12:10,449 --> 00:12:13,617 and how they behave or not behave. 260 00:12:13,617 --> 00:12:17,700 So he is a man who is used to being in the world. 261 00:12:18,919 --> 00:12:22,300 - "Those best able to imitate the fox have succeeded best. 262 00:12:22,300 --> 00:12:25,495 "But foxiness should be well concealed. 263 00:12:25,495 --> 00:12:29,127 "One must be a great feigner and dissembler. 264 00:12:29,127 --> 00:12:31,420 "A deceiver will always find someone 265 00:12:31,420 --> 00:12:34,084 "willing to be deceived." 266 00:12:34,084 --> 00:12:35,556 - What's interesting about the book, 267 00:12:35,556 --> 00:12:38,226 it's a bit like it says, 268 00:12:38,226 --> 00:12:42,051 "We've inherited an idea about human nature 269 00:12:42,051 --> 00:12:45,491 "from Christianity and classical humanism." 270 00:12:45,491 --> 00:12:49,160 And this idea of human nature is encouraging us to be good. 271 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:51,308 And what Machiavelli is saying is, 272 00:12:51,308 --> 00:12:53,565 what about if we thought differently about this? 273 00:12:53,565 --> 00:12:56,526 What about if we thought that vices and virtues 274 00:12:56,526 --> 00:13:00,405 were things you could use to survive? 275 00:13:00,405 --> 00:13:02,603 - "If a ruler who wants always to act honorably 276 00:13:02,603 --> 00:13:04,977 "is surrounded by many unscrupulous men, 277 00:13:04,977 --> 00:13:07,689 "his downfall is inevitable. 278 00:13:07,689 --> 00:13:08,899 "Therefore, it is necessary 279 00:13:08,899 --> 00:13:11,397 "for a ruler who wishes to maintain his position 280 00:13:11,397 --> 00:13:14,814 "to learn how to be able not to be good." 281 00:13:16,569 --> 00:13:19,235 - To any Christian reader of Machiavelli at the time, 282 00:13:19,235 --> 00:13:20,637 they're going to say, 283 00:13:20,637 --> 00:13:22,558 but you're forgetting the Day of Judgment. 284 00:13:22,558 --> 00:13:25,435 On the Day of Judgment, all your sins will be revealed 285 00:13:25,435 --> 00:13:27,069 and you will very much wish that you hadn't 286 00:13:27,069 --> 00:13:28,304 behaved like that. 287 00:13:28,304 --> 00:13:31,796 Now, Machiavelli pays no attention to that. 288 00:13:31,796 --> 00:13:34,421 That's a huge silence in the book. 289 00:13:34,421 --> 00:13:37,571 It's just not there as a consideration. 290 00:13:37,571 --> 00:13:39,824 The book is predicated on the assumption 291 00:13:39,824 --> 00:13:42,545 that the idea that your sins will find you out 292 00:13:42,545 --> 00:13:46,712 is a childish superstition, they will not find you out. 293 00:13:48,491 --> 00:13:50,528 - Machiavelli is saying something very simply, which is, 294 00:13:50,528 --> 00:13:51,992 these are wonderful pictures, 295 00:13:51,992 --> 00:13:53,711 but they've got nothing to do with reality. 296 00:13:53,711 --> 00:13:55,600 It's not as though if you're good, you'll be rewarded, 297 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:56,758 it's not a deal. 298 00:13:56,758 --> 00:13:58,761 Actually, it doesn't matter whether you're good or bad 299 00:13:58,761 --> 00:14:01,077 in terms of, it doesn't predict anything. 300 00:14:01,077 --> 00:14:04,246 So what Machiavelli is saying in contemporary language is, 301 00:14:04,246 --> 00:14:05,913 we need to get real. 302 00:14:14,295 --> 00:14:16,394 - [Alan] This is Jonathan Powell. 303 00:14:16,394 --> 00:14:19,476 He used to be Tony Blair's Chief of Staff. 304 00:14:19,476 --> 00:14:20,878 Now, he's written a memoir 305 00:14:20,878 --> 00:14:22,994 called The New Machiavelli: 306 00:14:22,994 --> 00:14:26,894 How To Wield Power In The Modern World. 307 00:14:26,894 --> 00:14:29,619 - "The choice of advisers is very important for a prince. 308 00:14:29,619 --> 00:14:31,606 "One can assess their prince's intelligence 309 00:14:31,606 --> 00:14:35,542 "by looking at the men with whom he surrounds himself." 310 00:14:35,542 --> 00:14:36,891 - So I'm kind of asking myself 311 00:14:36,891 --> 00:14:41,366 why you called your book The New Machiavelli? 312 00:14:41,366 --> 00:14:42,602 I mean, what made you do that? 313 00:14:42,602 --> 00:14:43,868 Because a lot of people might have thought 314 00:14:43,868 --> 00:14:45,566 that was a term of abuse. 315 00:14:45,566 --> 00:14:46,848 - Well, I wanted to write a book 316 00:14:46,848 --> 00:14:48,492 that was actually useful to people 317 00:14:48,492 --> 00:14:49,460 who were in government. 318 00:14:49,460 --> 00:14:51,687 There are an awful lot of books of theory, 319 00:14:51,687 --> 00:14:53,241 constitutional books, 320 00:14:53,241 --> 00:14:54,688 most of which are completely useless 321 00:14:54,688 --> 00:14:56,525 because they describe the way things should be, 322 00:14:56,525 --> 00:14:58,101 rather than the way things are. 323 00:14:58,101 --> 00:15:01,388 What's great about Machiavelli is, he writes about reality. 324 00:15:01,388 --> 00:15:04,770 He busts myths, he cuts through all of that. 325 00:15:04,770 --> 00:15:08,767 - The word "Machiavellian" was used 358 times 326 00:15:08,767 --> 00:15:12,991 by the newspapers in the first year of Tony Blair's reign. 327 00:15:12,991 --> 00:15:15,916 Somewhere in there, there's a connection. 328 00:15:15,916 --> 00:15:18,272 There are quite a lot of factors about Machiavelli 329 00:15:18,272 --> 00:15:20,624 which are ones that many politicians would not 330 00:15:20,624 --> 00:15:22,064 want to own up to. 331 00:15:22,064 --> 00:15:24,475 For instance, chapter 15, 332 00:15:24,475 --> 00:15:26,311 "It is necessary for a prince who wishes 333 00:15:26,311 --> 00:15:28,029 "to maintain his position 334 00:15:28,029 --> 00:15:31,446 "to learn how to be able not to be good." 335 00:15:32,406 --> 00:15:34,960 - Machiavelli was saying not that princes 336 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:37,035 should go around being evil, 337 00:15:37,035 --> 00:15:38,026 what he was saying is, 338 00:15:38,026 --> 00:15:39,995 you have to check your personal morality at the door 339 00:15:39,995 --> 00:15:41,397 when you become a leader. 340 00:15:41,397 --> 00:15:44,767 Personal morality is all very well as an individual, 341 00:15:44,767 --> 00:15:46,090 but if you are thinking about the greater 342 00:15:46,090 --> 00:15:47,065 good of the community, 343 00:15:47,065 --> 00:15:48,420 sometimes you'll have to do things 344 00:15:48,420 --> 00:15:50,218 that are not good as an individual, 345 00:15:50,218 --> 00:15:52,064 but are good for society as a whole. 346 00:15:52,064 --> 00:15:55,744 - "A prince must therefore be a fox to spot the snares 347 00:15:55,744 --> 00:15:58,656 "and a lion to overwhelm the wolves." 348 00:15:58,656 --> 00:16:00,533 - This is one of Machiavelli's most interesting lessons. 349 00:16:00,533 --> 00:16:02,343 You must be a lion, a courageous person, 350 00:16:02,343 --> 00:16:03,434 but you also had to be a fox 351 00:16:03,434 --> 00:16:06,518 and have the intelligence and the guile to avoid traps. 352 00:16:06,518 --> 00:16:08,173 There was an example for Tony Blair 353 00:16:08,173 --> 00:16:10,983 when he was running in the 2005 election. 354 00:16:10,983 --> 00:16:14,030 Tony Blair decided he had to make a speech on immigration. 355 00:16:14,030 --> 00:16:15,902 - [Newsreader] Tony Blair said controls on immigration 356 00:16:15,902 --> 00:16:17,921 had already had a positive effect. 357 00:16:17,921 --> 00:16:19,491 - When he finished, I said to him, 358 00:16:19,491 --> 00:16:21,191 I noticed the teleprompter had gone wrong, 359 00:16:21,191 --> 00:16:22,659 because large parts of the speech, 360 00:16:22,659 --> 00:16:23,738 you were looking down at your notes 361 00:16:23,738 --> 00:16:24,723 as opposed to looking at the camera. 362 00:16:24,723 --> 00:16:25,823 What happened? 363 00:16:25,823 --> 00:16:27,338 He said, "There was nothing wrong with the teleprompter, 364 00:16:27,338 --> 00:16:28,478 "just certain bits of the speech 365 00:16:28,478 --> 00:16:29,870 "I didn't want shown on television, 366 00:16:29,870 --> 00:16:31,490 "so I made sure I was looking at my notes, 367 00:16:31,490 --> 00:16:33,868 "so those bits wouldn't be used by television news." 368 00:16:33,868 --> 00:16:36,053 That was the fox bit. 369 00:16:36,053 --> 00:16:37,813 - [Alan] Did Tony Blair ever talk about The Prince? 370 00:16:37,813 --> 00:16:39,598 Did he ever read it, do you think? 371 00:16:39,598 --> 00:16:40,580 - I've no idea if he read it. 372 00:16:40,580 --> 00:16:41,819 He certainly never talked about it. 373 00:16:41,819 --> 00:16:43,438 I think he might be slightly horrified to be thought of 374 00:16:43,438 --> 00:16:47,605 as a Machiavellian leader, but I mean it as a compliment. 375 00:16:50,404 --> 00:16:52,205 - [Alan] Robert Greene has also been bringing 376 00:16:52,205 --> 00:16:54,825 The Prince into the modern world. 377 00:16:54,825 --> 00:16:56,308 He used to work in Hollywood. 378 00:16:56,308 --> 00:17:00,475 Now, he writes bestsellers like The 48 Laws Of Power. 379 00:17:01,974 --> 00:17:04,073 - The traditional way of looking at politics 380 00:17:04,073 --> 00:17:06,425 is veiled with all of these concepts 381 00:17:06,425 --> 00:17:08,489 of what's good for the public, 382 00:17:08,489 --> 00:17:11,118 of politicians' intentions, 383 00:17:11,118 --> 00:17:13,983 of being altruistic and generous. 384 00:17:13,983 --> 00:17:17,336 And what Machiavelli did is take all of that away. 385 00:17:17,336 --> 00:17:19,721 Look at power as it is. 386 00:17:19,721 --> 00:17:23,117 Watch the moves of the various people on the chessboard. 387 00:17:23,117 --> 00:17:26,069 So, it's pure strategy and it was absolutely brilliant, 388 00:17:26,069 --> 00:17:30,656 he's the first person to ever come up with that concept. 389 00:17:30,656 --> 00:17:32,957 There are different types of political leaders. 390 00:17:32,957 --> 00:17:37,389 There are the types who come into office with high ideals. 391 00:17:37,389 --> 00:17:40,633 They want to change things, they want to reform. 392 00:17:40,633 --> 00:17:42,283 They believe that they're doing something 393 00:17:42,283 --> 00:17:43,468 for the good of the public 394 00:17:43,468 --> 00:17:45,592 and then they realize very quickly 395 00:17:45,592 --> 00:17:48,126 that politics is warfare. 396 00:17:48,126 --> 00:17:50,119 And they have to adapt to this environment 397 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:51,391 and leaders like that, 398 00:17:51,391 --> 00:17:53,686 perhaps Obama would fit into that category, 399 00:17:53,686 --> 00:17:56,024 can do very well if they're adaptable. 400 00:17:56,024 --> 00:17:58,131 Then you have other types like a Bill Clinton, 401 00:17:58,131 --> 00:17:59,394 perhaps a Tony Blair, 402 00:17:59,394 --> 00:18:01,840 or if you're Angela Merkel, 403 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:04,771 these are more political animals by nature. 404 00:18:04,771 --> 00:18:07,518 They are very Machiavellian, it's in their DNA. 405 00:18:07,518 --> 00:18:09,786 They don't need to read The Prince, 406 00:18:09,786 --> 00:18:12,725 they understand how the laws of power operate. 407 00:18:12,725 --> 00:18:14,759 So, if you are in a position of power, 408 00:18:14,759 --> 00:18:16,678 you have to play a game. 409 00:18:16,678 --> 00:18:18,355 The dynamic doesn't matter, 410 00:18:18,355 --> 00:18:21,938 whether it's a dictatorship or a democracy. 411 00:18:24,140 --> 00:18:25,365 - What The Prince is, in a sense, 412 00:18:25,365 --> 00:18:29,983 is a portrayal of the attributes and qualities 413 00:18:29,983 --> 00:18:32,291 that you need to take the power that you have 414 00:18:32,291 --> 00:18:34,711 and develop that power in a way that is most useful to you 415 00:18:34,711 --> 00:18:36,250 and what you are trying to do. 416 00:18:36,250 --> 00:18:40,083 Well, that is the case today for Barack Obama, 417 00:18:41,677 --> 00:18:44,655 today for Angela Merkel, David Cameron, 418 00:18:44,655 --> 00:18:45,639 and all the rest of them. 419 00:18:45,639 --> 00:18:48,312 That's partly what they're about, 420 00:18:48,312 --> 00:18:52,131 because we can be very squeamish about this, if we want, 421 00:18:52,131 --> 00:18:55,631 but the truth is, power is, it is a force. 422 00:18:58,935 --> 00:19:01,475 - Money is the McMansion in Sarasota 423 00:19:01,475 --> 00:19:03,582 that starts falling apart after 10 years. 424 00:19:03,582 --> 00:19:07,749 Power is the old stone building that stands for centuries. 425 00:19:09,306 --> 00:19:12,899 I cannot respect someone who doesn't see the difference. 426 00:19:12,899 --> 00:19:14,992 - [Alan] The allure of power is a big theme 427 00:19:14,992 --> 00:19:16,942 in drama at the moment. 428 00:19:16,942 --> 00:19:19,074 In the hit series House of Cards, 429 00:19:19,074 --> 00:19:22,174 Kevin Spacey plays the Machiavellian senator, 430 00:19:22,174 --> 00:19:23,507 Frank Underwood. 431 00:19:25,328 --> 00:19:27,357 It's a remake of the earlier series 432 00:19:27,357 --> 00:19:30,234 starring Ian Richardson as Francis Urquhart, 433 00:19:30,234 --> 00:19:33,276 written by Margaret Thatcher's Chief of Staff, 434 00:19:33,276 --> 00:19:34,443 Michael Dobbs. 435 00:19:35,725 --> 00:19:37,510 - There's a dramatic thread that runs 436 00:19:37,510 --> 00:19:39,182 all the way from Machiavelli 437 00:19:39,182 --> 00:19:41,951 through Richard III through Francis Urquhart 438 00:19:41,951 --> 00:19:43,893 and Frank Underwood just talking to you, 439 00:19:43,893 --> 00:19:46,705 letting you in on the secrets of power. 440 00:19:46,705 --> 00:19:50,293 - I think you could achieve anything you wanted. 441 00:19:50,293 --> 00:19:53,445 - You might think that, Mattie, 442 00:19:53,445 --> 00:19:57,517 I'm afraid I couldn't possibly comment. 443 00:19:57,517 --> 00:20:00,302 - And you think that this is wonderful, 444 00:20:00,302 --> 00:20:01,281 you're being trusted, 445 00:20:01,281 --> 00:20:04,884 you're being made a co-conspirator. 446 00:20:04,884 --> 00:20:06,634 - I'm terribly sorry. 447 00:20:08,744 --> 00:20:10,494 - Thank you, Francis. 448 00:20:11,687 --> 00:20:13,187 You're a good man. 449 00:20:19,346 --> 00:20:22,441 - The Tory Party in the 1987-88 period when 450 00:20:22,441 --> 00:20:24,661 just before Margaret Thatcher was pushed out, 451 00:20:24,661 --> 00:20:26,234 which was when I wrote House of Cards, 452 00:20:26,234 --> 00:20:28,501 it was like Florence under the Borgias. 453 00:20:28,501 --> 00:20:30,918 I mean, it was full of conspiracy in dark corners 454 00:20:30,918 --> 00:20:32,811 and people whispering wicked things. 455 00:20:32,811 --> 00:20:35,380 So it wasn't so much that 456 00:20:35,380 --> 00:20:38,095 I must write something which is Machiavellian. 457 00:20:38,095 --> 00:20:41,480 I had, I think, lived though a time 458 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:43,347 and was living though a time 459 00:20:43,347 --> 00:20:46,774 which I think Machiavelli himself would have recognized. 460 00:20:46,774 --> 00:20:49,388 I think that this particular book of mine 461 00:20:49,388 --> 00:20:50,840 goes back to my university days, 462 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:52,436 and it's stayed with me ever since. 463 00:20:52,436 --> 00:20:55,494 It's a wonderful book for dipping into. 464 00:20:55,494 --> 00:20:57,860 He's actually saying, this is the way you do it. 465 00:20:57,860 --> 00:20:59,491 And you could be the most principled 466 00:20:59,491 --> 00:21:01,746 politician on the earth, 467 00:21:01,746 --> 00:21:04,245 but unless you get your fingers on power 468 00:21:04,245 --> 00:21:06,645 and know how to pull the levers, 469 00:21:06,645 --> 00:21:08,728 you're wasting your time. 470 00:21:09,823 --> 00:21:12,215 - [Alan] For centuries, The Prince has been inspiring 471 00:21:12,215 --> 00:21:14,651 the powerful and the tyrannical. 472 00:21:14,651 --> 00:21:15,944 Napoleon read it. 473 00:21:15,944 --> 00:21:17,390 So did Stalin. 474 00:21:17,390 --> 00:21:19,380 He made notes in the margin. 475 00:21:19,380 --> 00:21:22,484 Mussolini even did his dissertation on it. 476 00:21:22,484 --> 00:21:24,634 It's always been the book of choice 477 00:21:24,634 --> 00:21:26,634 for political operators. 478 00:21:27,543 --> 00:21:29,578 - It's true that The Prince was the favorite 479 00:21:29,578 --> 00:21:31,078 bedside reading of 480 00:21:32,410 --> 00:21:34,577 Henry Kissinger and Nixon. 481 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:37,320 And for a good reason, 482 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:40,428 because they were hard-nosed political realists. 483 00:21:40,428 --> 00:21:42,685 And part of the fascination of The Prince 484 00:21:42,685 --> 00:21:45,983 is that it shows us what the world looks like 485 00:21:45,983 --> 00:21:48,671 when the ethical dimensions have been 486 00:21:48,671 --> 00:21:50,904 removed from the picture. 487 00:21:50,904 --> 00:21:54,214 And I think for someone like Henry Kissinger or Nixon, 488 00:21:54,214 --> 00:21:58,103 there was a certain pleasure in reading a book 489 00:21:58,103 --> 00:22:01,847 that looked at the world the same way they did 490 00:22:01,847 --> 00:22:05,014 and the same way many other people do. 491 00:22:05,983 --> 00:22:09,084 - [Alan] Machiavelli is perhaps most famous for the phrase 492 00:22:09,084 --> 00:22:11,663 "the end justifies the means." 493 00:22:11,663 --> 00:22:13,958 Actually, he never said it. 494 00:22:13,958 --> 00:22:16,244 But he may as well have done. 495 00:22:16,244 --> 00:22:18,287 - The exact thought that's there in The Prince is, 496 00:22:18,287 --> 00:22:22,190 "the action is accused and the outcome excuses it." 497 00:22:22,190 --> 00:22:24,348 So in the Italian, it's very beautiful. 498 00:22:24,348 --> 00:22:26,532 It's accusata and scusata. 499 00:22:26,532 --> 00:22:28,991 It accuses you, but it excuses you. 500 00:22:28,991 --> 00:22:33,047 So you are excused if the motivation for the action 501 00:22:33,047 --> 00:22:34,787 was the good of the state. 502 00:22:34,787 --> 00:22:36,515 - We have to do justice to Machiavelli 503 00:22:36,515 --> 00:22:39,132 because it's not a matter of personal career 504 00:22:39,132 --> 00:22:41,231 or for just his own sake, 505 00:22:41,231 --> 00:22:44,243 it's also for a political purpose. 506 00:22:44,243 --> 00:22:47,005 He was really convinced that 507 00:22:47,005 --> 00:22:49,391 the stability of government in Florence 508 00:22:49,391 --> 00:22:52,308 was the most important thing to do. 509 00:22:53,641 --> 00:22:56,308 For the sake of the common good, 510 00:22:57,662 --> 00:23:00,815 you have to act in a bad manner. 511 00:23:00,815 --> 00:23:02,065 Just sometimes. 512 00:23:04,953 --> 00:23:07,936 - But if you have to do something which is really terrible, 513 00:23:07,936 --> 00:23:10,961 then you have to recognize that it's really terrible. 514 00:23:10,961 --> 00:23:13,037 But you still have to do it. 515 00:23:13,037 --> 00:23:16,063 - I want them dead, mother and child both. 516 00:23:16,063 --> 00:23:18,190 And that fool Viserys as well. 517 00:23:18,190 --> 00:23:19,886 Is that plain enough for you? 518 00:23:19,886 --> 00:23:21,290 I want them both dead. 519 00:23:21,290 --> 00:23:23,345 - You'll dishonor yourself for ever if you do this. 520 00:23:23,345 --> 00:23:24,790 - Honor? 521 00:23:24,790 --> 00:23:27,254 I've got seven kingdoms to rule! 522 00:23:27,254 --> 00:23:29,994 - It's tough to be a ruler, 523 00:23:29,994 --> 00:23:33,244 whether in Machiavelli's time or today. 524 00:23:35,274 --> 00:23:39,525 - George R.R. Martin understands the burden of command. 525 00:23:39,525 --> 00:23:40,723 This is your chair. 526 00:23:40,723 --> 00:23:42,016 This is your throne. 527 00:23:42,016 --> 00:23:43,099 - [George] My throne? 528 00:23:43,099 --> 00:23:44,447 - [Alan] He's the best-selling author 529 00:23:44,447 --> 00:23:46,967 behind the TV series Game of Thrones, 530 00:23:46,967 --> 00:23:50,800 set in an imaginary world of warring kingdoms. 531 00:23:52,322 --> 00:23:55,430 - Game of Thrones is a fantasy, of course. 532 00:23:55,430 --> 00:23:59,597 I think a lot of the fantasy that had gone before me 533 00:24:01,568 --> 00:24:03,581 has this unspoken assumption 534 00:24:03,581 --> 00:24:06,176 that if you are a good man, 535 00:24:06,176 --> 00:24:09,824 you will be a good king or a good prince. 536 00:24:09,824 --> 00:24:11,888 But if you look at the real world, 537 00:24:11,888 --> 00:24:13,133 if you look at real history, 538 00:24:13,133 --> 00:24:14,683 or if you look at contemporary times, 539 00:24:14,683 --> 00:24:19,280 it's not enough just to be a good guy, you know. 540 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:21,727 I read The Prince back in college, 541 00:24:21,727 --> 00:24:23,625 which was, of course, many years ago. 542 00:24:23,625 --> 00:24:28,019 And obviously, I absorbed quite a few of its lessons. 543 00:24:28,019 --> 00:24:30,145 - It is a terrible thing we must consider, 544 00:24:30,145 --> 00:24:33,514 a vile thing, yet we who presume to rule 545 00:24:33,514 --> 00:24:35,485 must sometimes do vile things 546 00:24:35,485 --> 00:24:37,978 for the good of the realm. 547 00:24:37,978 --> 00:24:39,228 - It's not enough just to say 548 00:24:39,228 --> 00:24:41,424 I will be good and wise 549 00:24:41,424 --> 00:24:43,332 and do the right thing. 550 00:24:43,332 --> 00:24:44,916 What is the right thing? 551 00:24:44,916 --> 00:24:46,583 That's the question. 552 00:24:47,772 --> 00:24:49,576 - [Alan] Don't Be Evil. 553 00:24:49,576 --> 00:24:52,520 That's what Google say is the right thing. 554 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:54,757 But isn't it precisely these user-friendly 555 00:24:54,757 --> 00:24:56,530 global corporations 556 00:24:56,530 --> 00:24:59,973 that are the modern day Machiavellians? 557 00:24:59,973 --> 00:25:03,552 - Corporatism presents a much more pleasant 558 00:25:03,552 --> 00:25:05,415 face to the world, 559 00:25:05,415 --> 00:25:08,008 but in that sense it may be even more Machiavellian, 560 00:25:08,008 --> 00:25:10,925 because it's smiling at us. 561 00:25:10,925 --> 00:25:12,030 Is it benign? 562 00:25:12,030 --> 00:25:12,867 I don't know. 563 00:25:12,867 --> 00:25:13,700 Is it benign? 564 00:25:13,700 --> 00:25:16,131 But it's certainly subtle. 565 00:25:16,131 --> 00:25:19,400 - The motto of Google is don't be evil. 566 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,356 But don't look at the words, look at their actions. 567 00:25:22,356 --> 00:25:24,395 The data they are gathering on individuals, 568 00:25:24,395 --> 00:25:26,827 the global presence they have. 569 00:25:26,827 --> 00:25:30,345 But in order to exercise power in the world, 570 00:25:30,345 --> 00:25:34,855 you have to give the appearance of being nice and good. 571 00:25:34,855 --> 00:25:37,642 If you look to be too ambitious for power, 572 00:25:37,642 --> 00:25:39,200 people are gonna see that, 573 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:40,522 they're not gonna to like it. 574 00:25:40,522 --> 00:25:42,335 The public wants to feel 575 00:25:42,335 --> 00:25:45,330 that you are motivated by some higher aspiration. 576 00:25:45,330 --> 00:25:47,725 So you have to manage appearances. 577 00:25:47,725 --> 00:25:51,840 And all of these companies play the game like that. 578 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:53,507 - The mission of the company is to make the world 579 00:25:53,507 --> 00:25:54,862 more open and connected. 580 00:25:54,862 --> 00:25:56,459 Everyone's gonna have a much better experience 581 00:25:56,459 --> 00:26:00,576 when they're doing different things with their friends. 582 00:26:00,576 --> 00:26:01,570 - "When ones sees him, 583 00:26:01,570 --> 00:26:03,799 "a ruler must be a paragon of mercy, 584 00:26:03,799 --> 00:26:07,952 "loyalty, humanness, integrity and scrupulousness. 585 00:26:07,952 --> 00:26:09,936 "Indeed, there is nothing more important 586 00:26:09,936 --> 00:26:12,750 "than appearing to have this last quality. 587 00:26:12,750 --> 00:26:14,674 "For the common people are impressed 588 00:26:14,674 --> 00:26:17,091 "by appearances and results." 589 00:26:19,852 --> 00:26:22,268 - Machiavelli is the first person ever 590 00:26:22,268 --> 00:26:24,694 to analyze that phenomenon. 591 00:26:24,694 --> 00:26:26,325 I think we're living in a period now 592 00:26:26,325 --> 00:26:29,256 that's remarkably similar to what Machiavelli 593 00:26:29,256 --> 00:26:30,839 was living through. 594 00:26:31,834 --> 00:26:34,327 - [Alan] And it's not just with global tech companies 595 00:26:34,327 --> 00:26:36,391 that appearances matter. 596 00:26:36,391 --> 00:26:38,565 Machiavelli's rule applies everywhere, 597 00:26:38,565 --> 00:26:42,852 not least, as Robert Greene found out, in Hollywood. 598 00:26:42,852 --> 00:26:47,110 - If you go into a meeting and you give off confidence, 599 00:26:47,110 --> 00:26:49,209 like you could pull this off, 600 00:26:49,209 --> 00:26:51,730 like you can see it all the way to the end, 601 00:26:51,730 --> 00:26:53,221 that you know what you're doing, 602 00:26:53,221 --> 00:26:54,946 you're gonna go a lot further 603 00:26:54,946 --> 00:26:57,086 than somebody who might have a brilliant idea, 604 00:26:57,086 --> 00:26:58,943 but doesn't know how to pitch it as well. 605 00:26:58,943 --> 00:27:00,622 I know, for example, 606 00:27:00,622 --> 00:27:03,348 that I made that mistake recently in a meeting, 607 00:27:03,348 --> 00:27:07,465 that we didn't exude that insane sense of confidence 608 00:27:07,465 --> 00:27:10,246 that we were gonna get this project done. 609 00:27:10,246 --> 00:27:13,746 So it's a realm of appearances, basically. 610 00:27:16,236 --> 00:27:17,592 - [Alan] But for Machiavelli, 611 00:27:17,592 --> 00:27:20,386 no one who wants to succeed in the game of power 612 00:27:20,386 --> 00:27:22,553 can escape one key factor. 613 00:27:23,410 --> 00:27:24,525 Luck. 614 00:27:24,525 --> 00:27:28,328 Fortuna, he calls it, that capricious turn of the wheel 615 00:27:28,328 --> 00:27:31,675 by which the ambitious rise and fall, 616 00:27:31,675 --> 00:27:34,592 and never more so than in politics. 617 00:27:35,541 --> 00:27:37,640 - What does it mean to be able to make your fortune? 618 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,487 It is to have the qualities that enable you 619 00:27:40,487 --> 00:27:41,904 to dominate luck. 620 00:27:43,184 --> 00:27:45,510 So wow can you hope to dominate luck? 621 00:27:45,510 --> 00:27:47,111 Well, in the end, you can't. 622 00:27:47,111 --> 00:27:49,836 Fortune is always more powerful than reason. 623 00:27:49,836 --> 00:27:52,765 But there are qualities that enable you, 624 00:27:52,765 --> 00:27:57,229 as the excellent American phrase puts it, to get lucky. 625 00:27:57,229 --> 00:27:58,956 But, of course, you could, as a politician, 626 00:27:58,956 --> 00:28:02,089 simply have an amazing stroke of luck 627 00:28:02,089 --> 00:28:03,471 from which everything follows. 628 00:28:03,471 --> 00:28:06,410 And Tony Blair would certainly be an example of that. 629 00:28:06,410 --> 00:28:08,412 - [Man] The body of John Smith was carried 630 00:28:08,412 --> 00:28:09,344 into the parish... 631 00:28:09,344 --> 00:28:11,913 - John Smith, who was Leader of the Opposition, 632 00:28:11,913 --> 00:28:15,080 dies very suddenly in his mid-fifties. 633 00:28:16,188 --> 00:28:20,829 So Blair becomes Leader of the Opposition at the age of 41, 634 00:28:20,829 --> 00:28:23,473 when he had no expectation of the leader 635 00:28:23,473 --> 00:28:24,544 dying in the mid-fifties. 636 00:28:24,544 --> 00:28:26,340 People don't die in their mid-fifties. 637 00:28:26,340 --> 00:28:28,091 But John Smith did. 638 00:28:28,091 --> 00:28:30,825 - This morning, I'm announcing my candidature 639 00:28:30,825 --> 00:28:35,124 for the position of Leader of the Labour Party. 640 00:28:35,124 --> 00:28:37,452 - Now there's no successful politician 641 00:28:37,452 --> 00:28:40,134 who hasn't, at some point, had pure good luck. 642 00:28:40,134 --> 00:28:43,648 And Tony Blair's pure good luck, terrible thing to say, 643 00:28:43,648 --> 00:28:44,879 but was the death of John Smith. 644 00:28:44,879 --> 00:28:46,403 Surely he would have won that election, 645 00:28:46,403 --> 00:28:47,770 so he would have been Prime Minister. 646 00:28:47,770 --> 00:28:49,824 But instead, it was Blair. 647 00:28:49,824 --> 00:28:52,028 - A new dawn has broken, has it not? 648 00:28:52,028 --> 00:28:53,413 (crowd cheering) 649 00:28:53,413 --> 00:28:56,476 - He had the Fortuna, he had the luck, and he grabbed it. 650 00:28:56,476 --> 00:28:58,307 He had the opportunity to become Leader of the Labour Party 651 00:28:58,307 --> 00:29:00,528 when John Smith died, and he grabbed it. 652 00:29:00,528 --> 00:29:01,998 And he made something of it. 653 00:29:01,998 --> 00:29:04,847 So I think he was a classically Machiavellian leader, 654 00:29:04,847 --> 00:29:06,847 from that point of view. 655 00:29:10,393 --> 00:29:14,954 - [Alan] For Machiavelli, the flip side of Fortuna is Virtu. 656 00:29:14,954 --> 00:29:16,933 He doesn't mean virtue, of course, 657 00:29:16,933 --> 00:29:19,433 he means a kind of virtuosity. 658 00:29:20,416 --> 00:29:23,421 - In Latin, the word for a man is vir, 659 00:29:23,421 --> 00:29:25,811 the source of our word virile. 660 00:29:25,811 --> 00:29:27,790 It's this principle of manliness, 661 00:29:27,790 --> 00:29:30,596 of courage, of prudence, 662 00:29:30,596 --> 00:29:33,170 of knowing how to master fortune. 663 00:29:33,170 --> 00:29:36,159 So that's what virtue is, because if you can master fortune, 664 00:29:36,159 --> 00:29:40,326 you can maintain your state and thereby gain glory. 665 00:29:42,376 --> 00:29:44,126 - "This raises the question of whether it is better 666 00:29:44,126 --> 00:29:46,252 "to be loved than feared. 667 00:29:46,252 --> 00:29:48,976 "My reply is that one would like to be both, 668 00:29:48,976 --> 00:29:52,693 "but as it is difficult to combine love and fear, 669 00:29:52,693 --> 00:29:55,193 "it is far safer to be feared, 670 00:29:56,916 --> 00:29:58,243 "because it can be said of men 671 00:29:58,243 --> 00:30:03,124 "that they're ungrateful, fickle liars and deceivers. 672 00:30:03,124 --> 00:30:07,522 "They shun danger and are greedy for profit." 673 00:30:07,522 --> 00:30:09,144 - He recommends fear over love. 674 00:30:09,144 --> 00:30:12,515 Of course, he says it's better to be both, 675 00:30:12,515 --> 00:30:14,197 but if you have to choose between the two, 676 00:30:14,197 --> 00:30:16,286 it's better to be feared. 677 00:30:16,286 --> 00:30:18,108 - "The bond of love is one that men break 678 00:30:18,108 --> 00:30:20,468 "when it is to their advantage to do so, 679 00:30:20,468 --> 00:30:24,323 "but fear is strengthened by the dread of punishment, 680 00:30:24,323 --> 00:30:27,249 "which is always effective." 681 00:30:27,249 --> 00:30:29,706 - Fear is something that you can rely on 682 00:30:29,706 --> 00:30:33,013 as a very stable sort of emotional foundation 683 00:30:33,013 --> 00:30:34,884 to build your power on. 684 00:30:34,884 --> 00:30:37,591 Machiavelli was all about power, 685 00:30:37,591 --> 00:30:40,091 of the Prince or of the state. 686 00:30:46,015 --> 00:30:48,087 - This is a remarkable moment in The Prince 687 00:30:48,087 --> 00:30:49,224 because it's the only moment 688 00:30:49,224 --> 00:30:52,152 when he really generalizes about human nature. 689 00:30:52,152 --> 00:30:56,168 He says that most people are fickle, you can't trust them. 690 00:30:56,168 --> 00:30:58,667 They are going to do everything 691 00:30:58,667 --> 00:31:00,156 that is in their own interest 692 00:31:00,156 --> 00:31:01,835 and not in your interest. 693 00:31:01,835 --> 00:31:04,079 So what would be the point of trying to 694 00:31:04,079 --> 00:31:06,570 bind them to you by affection? 695 00:31:06,570 --> 00:31:08,264 They'll simply sell you down the river. 696 00:31:08,264 --> 00:31:11,181 You've got to make them frightened. 697 00:31:13,290 --> 00:31:15,066 - "If one has to choose between them, 698 00:31:15,066 --> 00:31:18,645 "it is far safer to be feared than loved." 699 00:31:18,645 --> 00:31:19,901 - Very true of politicians now. 700 00:31:19,901 --> 00:31:21,197 If you think about politicians, 701 00:31:21,197 --> 00:31:23,271 you can be absolutely beloved of your party. 702 00:31:23,271 --> 00:31:25,522 Neil Kinnock was beloved of the Labour Party. 703 00:31:25,522 --> 00:31:27,198 Every time he went through a Prime Minister's question 704 00:31:27,198 --> 00:31:29,070 or was bashed to pieces by Mrs. Thatcher, 705 00:31:29,070 --> 00:31:31,604 the whole Labour Party suffered with him. 706 00:31:31,604 --> 00:31:33,048 But he could never be elected because 707 00:31:33,048 --> 00:31:35,069 he didn't have that aspect of fear. 708 00:31:35,069 --> 00:31:37,496 Mrs. Thatcher was never much liked by her troops, 709 00:31:37,496 --> 00:31:39,292 she was feared and respected. 710 00:31:39,292 --> 00:31:41,799 So she was someone who was feared rather than loved. 711 00:31:41,799 --> 00:31:43,459 Machiavelli says the point is 712 00:31:43,459 --> 00:31:45,988 that being loved is a reciprocal relationship. 713 00:31:45,988 --> 00:31:47,415 The person can stop loving you, 714 00:31:47,415 --> 00:31:49,262 whereas fear is a one-way thing. 715 00:31:49,262 --> 00:31:50,377 They can't stop fearing you 716 00:31:50,377 --> 00:31:52,840 as long as you have the means to make them fear. 717 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,215 - Through it all, the fear point 718 00:31:55,215 --> 00:31:56,811 is really, really important. 719 00:31:56,811 --> 00:32:00,695 When the leader goes into a gathering, 720 00:32:00,695 --> 00:32:03,073 there has to be a sense that that person 721 00:32:03,073 --> 00:32:07,278 is the main event in that room at that time. 722 00:32:07,278 --> 00:32:09,481 Now they can emanate all sorts of charm 723 00:32:09,481 --> 00:32:12,162 and niceness and all the rest of it, 724 00:32:12,162 --> 00:32:14,224 but, you know, look at what happens 725 00:32:14,224 --> 00:32:16,383 within our political system 726 00:32:16,383 --> 00:32:19,538 in the run-up to a re-shuffle. 727 00:32:19,538 --> 00:32:22,732 I can remember the very first time he did a re-shuffle. 728 00:32:22,732 --> 00:32:24,413 I mean, he wasn't quite physically sick, 729 00:32:24,413 --> 00:32:25,815 but he wasn't far off it. 730 00:32:25,815 --> 00:32:27,732 He absolutely hated it. 731 00:32:28,585 --> 00:32:31,920 And he definitely got tougher as time went on. 732 00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:34,960 - Out went Charles Clarke, after so many bad headlines... 733 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:37,538 - Come the last re-shuffle that I was, 734 00:32:37,538 --> 00:32:39,697 as it were, directly involved in, 735 00:32:39,697 --> 00:32:41,655 once he'd done the big beasts, 736 00:32:41,655 --> 00:32:43,095 and done them all face-to-face, 737 00:32:43,095 --> 00:32:46,212 he kind of had a list of people that he did by phone. 738 00:32:46,212 --> 00:32:49,379 And was pretty swift about it as well. 739 00:32:51,611 --> 00:32:53,881 Look, you've probably heard I'm doing a re-shuffle 740 00:32:53,881 --> 00:32:56,208 and I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask for your job 741 00:32:56,208 --> 00:32:58,140 because we need to make some changes. 742 00:32:58,140 --> 00:33:00,390 And um, well, there we are. 743 00:33:01,381 --> 00:33:03,973 - [Alan] Is it useful that they feel slightly fearful? 744 00:33:03,973 --> 00:33:06,265 - I think if leaders are being really, 745 00:33:06,265 --> 00:33:07,293 really honest about it, 746 00:33:07,293 --> 00:33:09,931 I think that is quite useful at times. 747 00:33:09,931 --> 00:33:13,473 - The ruler needs to be able to intimidate people, 748 00:33:13,473 --> 00:33:15,118 for lack of a better word, 749 00:33:15,118 --> 00:33:17,672 needs to be able, well, in extreme cases 750 00:33:17,672 --> 00:33:21,303 like Renaissance Italy, to execute his enemies. 751 00:33:21,303 --> 00:33:25,411 In modern times, it would be more to fire people. 752 00:33:25,411 --> 00:33:26,490 - [Alan] For Machiavelli, 753 00:33:26,490 --> 00:33:29,757 not even the most loyal servant should be spared. 754 00:33:29,757 --> 00:33:32,465 If you have to get rid of them to maintain power, 755 00:33:32,465 --> 00:33:33,965 then they must go. 756 00:33:35,296 --> 00:33:38,193 - Better to be feared than loved. 757 00:33:38,193 --> 00:33:40,738 I would say that to be feared 758 00:33:40,738 --> 00:33:43,650 is far better than to be loved. 759 00:33:43,650 --> 00:33:46,889 There has to be, between an employer and employee, 760 00:33:46,889 --> 00:33:49,342 a tiny little bit of fear. 761 00:33:49,342 --> 00:33:51,103 But I certainly don't need to be loved 762 00:33:51,103 --> 00:33:53,020 by anybody in business. 763 00:33:54,393 --> 00:33:56,215 - [Man] These are the Dragons. 764 00:33:56,215 --> 00:33:57,799 Five of Britain's wealthiest 765 00:33:57,799 --> 00:34:01,004 and most enterprising business leaders. 766 00:34:01,004 --> 00:34:02,444 - [Alan] Multimillionaire businesswoman 767 00:34:02,444 --> 00:34:04,653 and former Dragon Hilary Devey 768 00:34:04,653 --> 00:34:07,520 first read The Prince when she was at school. 769 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:11,054 16th century political analysis may have felt like a chore 770 00:34:11,054 --> 00:34:14,059 but it's certainly left its mark. 771 00:34:14,059 --> 00:34:15,641 - Let's face it, for a 15-year-old, 772 00:34:15,641 --> 00:34:17,498 even for a 50-year-old, 773 00:34:17,498 --> 00:34:20,668 it's heavy going, it's a hard read. 774 00:34:20,668 --> 00:34:23,085 Because it's very thought-provoking, 775 00:34:23,085 --> 00:34:25,902 which is what it's meant to be. 776 00:34:25,902 --> 00:34:28,409 I think I can bring a lot to the party. 777 00:34:28,409 --> 00:34:32,058 I've a lot of access into major retailers. 778 00:34:32,058 --> 00:34:34,891 So I'll offer you the full 70,000. 779 00:34:35,764 --> 00:34:37,598 But I'd like 20%. 780 00:34:40,398 --> 00:34:42,245 If you actually watch Dragons' Den, 781 00:34:42,245 --> 00:34:46,382 it couldn't be more Machiavellian if it tried. 782 00:34:46,382 --> 00:34:48,916 And if you look at each one of the Dragons, 783 00:34:48,916 --> 00:34:51,293 every single one of them has something 784 00:34:51,293 --> 00:34:53,376 Machiavellian about them. 785 00:34:54,261 --> 00:34:56,297 - I'll offer you 70,000 pound 786 00:34:56,297 --> 00:34:59,057 for 10% of the company. 787 00:34:59,057 --> 00:35:02,777 - I simply couldn't believe how Machiavellian they were. 788 00:35:02,777 --> 00:35:04,423 And it took me a little while, 789 00:35:04,423 --> 00:35:06,365 perhaps a month, six weeks, 790 00:35:06,365 --> 00:35:09,605 to finally understand what the strategy, 791 00:35:09,605 --> 00:35:11,326 what the game plan was. 792 00:35:11,326 --> 00:35:13,120 And once I did, of course, 793 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:16,214 I joined in and I became one of them. 794 00:35:16,214 --> 00:35:18,606 - [Man] Only Hilary Devey remains. 795 00:35:18,606 --> 00:35:23,335 Will she see an opportunity where her rivals have not? 796 00:35:23,335 --> 00:35:27,017 - If I was to offer you the 50,000 pound 797 00:35:27,017 --> 00:35:30,005 for 95% of your company, 798 00:35:30,005 --> 00:35:31,588 what would you say? 799 00:35:32,590 --> 00:35:34,244 I think it is an important book. 800 00:35:34,244 --> 00:35:36,464 And I think his principles are the same 801 00:35:36,464 --> 00:35:38,181 principles as mine, in a way, 802 00:35:38,181 --> 00:35:42,849 where I say the only difference between me and Machiavelli 803 00:35:42,849 --> 00:35:45,262 is that I make a commercial decision. 804 00:35:45,262 --> 00:35:46,869 And I will take whatever amount of 805 00:35:46,869 --> 00:35:50,108 compassion is required out of that commercial decision. 806 00:35:50,108 --> 00:35:52,895 But what I will then do is put compassion back in. 807 00:35:52,895 --> 00:35:56,624 So I'm having to do this because XYZ, 808 00:35:56,624 --> 00:35:58,541 now how can I help you? 809 00:36:01,519 --> 00:36:02,947 - Chapter 19. 810 00:36:02,947 --> 00:36:05,707 How to avoid contempt and hatred. 811 00:36:05,707 --> 00:36:08,728 "Princes must delegate difficult tasks to others 812 00:36:08,728 --> 00:36:12,418 "and keep popular ones for themselves." 813 00:36:12,418 --> 00:36:14,937 - The Prince must never be hated. 814 00:36:14,937 --> 00:36:17,506 If you're hated then you'll lose your state 815 00:36:17,506 --> 00:36:19,220 because there will be some good reason 816 00:36:19,220 --> 00:36:21,485 why the people hate you and they wont tolerate it. 817 00:36:21,485 --> 00:36:24,750 Now how can you avoid being hated 818 00:36:24,750 --> 00:36:26,814 if terrible things have to be done? 819 00:36:26,814 --> 00:36:29,853 Well one of Machiavelli's pieces of advice is to say 820 00:36:29,853 --> 00:36:32,757 you must appoint a deputy and you must get him 821 00:36:32,757 --> 00:36:34,507 to do the dirty work. 822 00:36:35,791 --> 00:36:37,114 - [Alan] To make his point, 823 00:36:37,114 --> 00:36:40,856 Machiavelli tells a story about Cesare Borgia. 824 00:36:40,856 --> 00:36:44,168 We think of Borgia as a blood-thirsty monster. 825 00:36:44,168 --> 00:36:46,668 To Machiavelli, he was a hero. 826 00:36:48,250 --> 00:36:52,592 The story begins in Cesena in the Romagna district of Italy. 827 00:36:52,592 --> 00:36:54,904 Borgia wants to take over the area 828 00:36:54,904 --> 00:36:58,518 so he sends in his minister Romero d'Orco, 829 00:36:58,518 --> 00:37:01,268 a man with a ruthless reputation. 830 00:37:02,924 --> 00:37:05,601 - Borgia sends him in to Romagna to pacify it. 831 00:37:05,601 --> 00:37:07,913 He does so by means of unspeakable cruelty 832 00:37:07,913 --> 00:37:10,746 and there is a threat of a rising. 833 00:37:13,016 --> 00:37:14,974 - Borgia was aware that d'Orco had created 834 00:37:14,974 --> 00:37:16,342 hatred among the people 835 00:37:16,342 --> 00:37:18,284 and in order to win them over, 836 00:37:18,284 --> 00:37:19,956 he decided to make it clear that 837 00:37:19,956 --> 00:37:21,338 if there had been any cruelty 838 00:37:21,338 --> 00:37:24,745 it had been triggered by d'Orco and not him. 839 00:37:24,745 --> 00:37:25,970 - And so what happens is, 840 00:37:25,970 --> 00:37:29,011 Machiavelli says, in wonderfully level piece of prose, 841 00:37:29,011 --> 00:37:33,468 he says that one morning Romero d'Orco was found 842 00:37:33,468 --> 00:37:36,635 in the square of Cesena in two pieces. 843 00:37:37,632 --> 00:37:40,465 (dramatic music) 844 00:37:41,819 --> 00:37:43,945 - He had d'Orco placed in two pieces 845 00:37:43,945 --> 00:37:48,706 with a block of wood and blood-stained knife by his side. 846 00:37:48,706 --> 00:37:50,710 This terrible spectacle left the people 847 00:37:50,710 --> 00:37:53,127 both satisfied and stupefied. 848 00:37:56,527 --> 00:37:59,974 - I mean, they thought, wow, well he can do anything. 849 00:37:59,974 --> 00:38:02,231 The hated figure was gone, 850 00:38:02,231 --> 00:38:04,701 Borgia was in no way to blame. 851 00:38:04,701 --> 00:38:08,868 So always put a second in command to do your dirty work. 852 00:38:12,558 --> 00:38:15,664 - Putting that dismembered body on a block, what is that? 853 00:38:15,664 --> 00:38:18,505 It's not only just saying that I executed that man, 854 00:38:18,505 --> 00:38:21,820 but it's almost like a ritual murder, almost mafia-like. 855 00:38:21,820 --> 00:38:26,277 And it's there to inspire awe and respect and admiration 856 00:38:26,277 --> 00:38:28,083 for the man who did it. 857 00:38:28,083 --> 00:38:30,856 To see a leader who's not only killed him, 858 00:38:30,856 --> 00:38:33,281 but put him there so everyone could see as a lesson. 859 00:38:33,281 --> 00:38:37,364 My God, it has a triple effect on public opinion. 860 00:38:41,281 --> 00:38:42,896 Political leaders have been using 861 00:38:42,896 --> 00:38:45,472 this strategy for centuries 862 00:38:45,472 --> 00:38:47,011 without the blood. 863 00:38:47,011 --> 00:38:51,777 So FDR had his henchmen, Clinton had his henchmen. 864 00:38:51,777 --> 00:38:53,743 Tony Blair had it, 865 00:38:53,743 --> 00:38:56,216 Cameron has Osborne. 866 00:38:56,216 --> 00:38:57,811 On and on and on and on. 867 00:38:57,811 --> 00:38:59,754 You've got somebody there to do the dirty work, 868 00:38:59,754 --> 00:39:01,713 and then you can distance yourself from them. 869 00:39:01,713 --> 00:39:05,047 So the sort of violent example is actually 870 00:39:05,047 --> 00:39:08,630 something that goes on every day around us. 871 00:39:09,823 --> 00:39:13,947 - [Alan] Maybe that's why The Prince feels so contemporary. 872 00:39:13,947 --> 00:39:16,061 The rules of power, it seems, 873 00:39:16,061 --> 00:39:20,321 are just as applicable today as they were 500 years ago. 874 00:39:20,321 --> 00:39:22,446 Originally a manual for the Medici, 875 00:39:22,446 --> 00:39:24,092 The Prince could just as easily 876 00:39:24,092 --> 00:39:27,078 be a modern self-help book. 877 00:39:27,078 --> 00:39:28,999 - We tend to think of power only in terms 878 00:39:28,999 --> 00:39:31,159 of politics or business, 879 00:39:31,159 --> 00:39:33,487 but really there's the power to control 880 00:39:33,487 --> 00:39:35,620 your destiny, your life, 881 00:39:35,620 --> 00:39:37,542 how you are in your office. 882 00:39:37,542 --> 00:39:40,339 If you have no control over your career, 883 00:39:40,339 --> 00:39:42,569 if you have no influence over your colleagues 884 00:39:42,569 --> 00:39:44,046 or peers or your boss, 885 00:39:44,046 --> 00:39:46,651 it's the most miserable feeling in the world. 886 00:39:46,651 --> 00:39:50,162 And nobody wants that kind of position in life. 887 00:39:50,162 --> 00:39:53,741 So everybody is scrambling to get more power, 888 00:39:53,741 --> 00:39:57,408 more control, over their individual destiny. 889 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:02,333 - I taught college once at a tiny little 890 00:40:04,302 --> 00:40:07,591 Catholic girls' college in Dubuque, Iowa. 891 00:40:07,591 --> 00:40:08,424 And... 892 00:40:10,554 --> 00:40:13,320 The power struggles on an academic level 893 00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:15,030 at this little thing were as vicious 894 00:40:15,030 --> 00:40:17,250 as anything in medieval Florence of 895 00:40:17,250 --> 00:40:19,889 who will get to be department chairman 896 00:40:19,889 --> 00:40:22,675 and wield that vast power. 897 00:40:22,675 --> 00:40:26,489 It's all in the context of what you're in. 898 00:40:26,489 --> 00:40:29,537 - It's sort of like once you enter the boxing ring, 899 00:40:29,537 --> 00:40:32,323 you have to fight, you can't sit there and just lie down. 900 00:40:32,323 --> 00:40:33,715 You're gonna get beaten up. 901 00:40:33,715 --> 00:40:35,911 So once you're there, you have to figure out a strategy. 902 00:40:35,911 --> 00:40:37,217 If you don't want to get hit, 903 00:40:37,217 --> 00:40:40,054 you have to at least figure out how to avoid getting hit. 904 00:40:40,054 --> 00:40:42,471 So there's no way to opt out. 905 00:40:44,079 --> 00:40:46,113 But a lot of people are uncomfortable with it 906 00:40:46,113 --> 00:40:49,388 and they play a kind of a negative game of power. 907 00:40:49,388 --> 00:40:52,830 They say that they find power ugly and disgusting 908 00:40:52,830 --> 00:40:56,497 and power people are antisocial, et cetera. 909 00:40:57,593 --> 00:40:59,934 The ones that say they're not interested in power 910 00:40:59,934 --> 00:41:02,851 are often the most dangerous types. 911 00:41:04,384 --> 00:41:06,483 I would say that The Prince is more relevant now 912 00:41:06,483 --> 00:41:08,240 than it almost ever has been. 913 00:41:08,240 --> 00:41:09,955 And that he was ahead of his time, 914 00:41:09,955 --> 00:41:11,922 he was 500 years ahead of his time. 915 00:41:11,922 --> 00:41:14,682 And that this book is absolutely 916 00:41:14,682 --> 00:41:17,193 the perfect template for how to survive 917 00:41:17,193 --> 00:41:20,610 and thrive in the world that's coming up. 918 00:41:22,807 --> 00:41:26,045 (explosion booming) 919 00:41:26,045 --> 00:41:28,199 - [Alan] Using The Prince as a guide to warfare 920 00:41:28,199 --> 00:41:30,341 may sound a bit extreme, 921 00:41:30,341 --> 00:41:33,006 but that's exactly what Colonel Tim Collins 922 00:41:33,006 --> 00:41:35,825 did when he was in Iraq. 923 00:41:35,825 --> 00:41:37,908 Collins is famous for the rousing speech 924 00:41:37,908 --> 00:41:40,068 he made on the eve of battle, 925 00:41:40,068 --> 00:41:44,943 later recreated in a short film starring Kenneth Branagh. 926 00:41:44,943 --> 00:41:46,684 - Now there are some who are alive at this moment 927 00:41:46,684 --> 00:41:49,263 who will not be alive shortly. 928 00:41:49,263 --> 00:41:51,998 Those of them who do not wish to go on that journey, 929 00:41:51,998 --> 00:41:53,694 we will not send them. 930 00:41:53,694 --> 00:41:54,723 As for the others... 931 00:41:54,723 --> 00:41:57,579 - [Alan] What is less known is that, while he was in Iraq, 932 00:41:57,579 --> 00:42:02,488 Collins kept a copy of The Prince with him at all times. 933 00:42:02,488 --> 00:42:04,153 - In Iraq, I kept dipping into it. 934 00:42:04,153 --> 00:42:05,773 I carried it around in my map pocket 935 00:42:05,773 --> 00:42:09,498 and I would take it out and read it. 936 00:42:09,498 --> 00:42:11,524 I would study to find out what it was 937 00:42:11,524 --> 00:42:13,060 he was specifically saying about 938 00:42:13,060 --> 00:42:14,896 what will cause populations to hate you. 939 00:42:14,896 --> 00:42:16,707 Because here's the headline news, 940 00:42:16,707 --> 00:42:19,121 what would have got you hated 500 years ago 941 00:42:19,121 --> 00:42:21,073 is what's gonna get you hated today. 942 00:42:21,073 --> 00:42:24,494 So it's worth studying it to what it is he's saying. 943 00:42:24,494 --> 00:42:27,306 This is the book I had with me in Iraq. 944 00:42:27,306 --> 00:42:29,630 And it's pretty fragile now because 945 00:42:29,630 --> 00:42:31,721 it literally has been through the wars. 946 00:42:31,721 --> 00:42:34,445 And the sand still falls out of it. 947 00:42:34,445 --> 00:42:35,666 If you read Machiavelli, 948 00:42:35,666 --> 00:42:37,013 you realize at the end of the day 949 00:42:37,013 --> 00:42:38,723 what you've got to do is the right thing. 950 00:42:38,723 --> 00:42:40,190 So, if you are in an occupied village, 951 00:42:40,190 --> 00:42:42,149 we could organize a football match 952 00:42:42,149 --> 00:42:43,895 and give out bars of soap. 953 00:42:43,895 --> 00:42:45,445 Or we could have a curfew and tell you, 954 00:42:45,445 --> 00:42:48,639 the first person I catch with a weapon is a dead man, 955 00:42:48,639 --> 00:42:50,919 and I want all weapons handed in tomorrow. 956 00:42:50,919 --> 00:42:53,473 And after that, anybody caught with one is a dead man. 957 00:42:53,473 --> 00:42:55,058 And then get all the weapons handed in. 958 00:42:55,058 --> 00:42:56,582 And once all the weapons are out of the way 959 00:42:56,582 --> 00:42:58,297 and they fear your very shadow, 960 00:42:58,297 --> 00:43:00,936 then we can have a football match. 961 00:43:00,936 --> 00:43:03,313 - [Alan] And do you think, as a manual, 962 00:43:03,313 --> 00:43:05,115 that this had lessons for you? 963 00:43:05,115 --> 00:43:06,123 - Absolutely. 964 00:43:06,123 --> 00:43:07,803 I mean, he is spot on throughout. 965 00:43:07,803 --> 00:43:09,974 I think that all he's saying ultimately is, 966 00:43:09,974 --> 00:43:12,517 for good or for ill, this is what works. 967 00:43:12,517 --> 00:43:16,590 So, on that basis, I think he's the good guy. 968 00:43:16,590 --> 00:43:18,890 What he described was what he saw. 969 00:43:18,890 --> 00:43:20,126 And he did it so accurately 970 00:43:20,126 --> 00:43:23,322 that here we are centuries later still reading it 971 00:43:23,322 --> 00:43:27,072 and still observing it in our everyday lives. 972 00:43:28,683 --> 00:43:30,219 - Chapter Three. 973 00:43:30,219 --> 00:43:32,317 "It should be observed here that men should 974 00:43:32,317 --> 00:43:34,841 "either be caressed or crushed 975 00:43:34,841 --> 00:43:37,035 "because they can avenge slight injuries 976 00:43:37,035 --> 00:43:40,118 "but not those that are very severe." 977 00:43:41,109 --> 00:43:43,146 - What Machiavelli would say is that, 978 00:43:43,146 --> 00:43:44,717 if you decide to do something, 979 00:43:44,717 --> 00:43:46,084 you go through with it to the end. 980 00:43:46,084 --> 00:43:48,365 And that means not to spatter your enemy, 981 00:43:48,365 --> 00:43:50,546 to crush your enemy. 982 00:43:50,546 --> 00:43:51,955 Cause him to cease to exist. 983 00:43:51,955 --> 00:43:54,018 That way you're certain there can be no 984 00:43:54,018 --> 00:43:56,601 comeback on you or your people. 985 00:43:58,503 --> 00:44:00,268 - The crush-your-enemy dynamic 986 00:44:00,268 --> 00:44:01,838 is something that Machiavelli 987 00:44:01,838 --> 00:44:03,412 discovered as a law of power. 988 00:44:03,412 --> 00:44:04,528 And it's timeless. 989 00:44:04,528 --> 00:44:08,378 And it exists in warfare and it totally exists in business. 990 00:44:08,378 --> 00:44:10,038 The classic example was the war 991 00:44:10,038 --> 00:44:13,698 between Microsoft and Netscape in the 1990s, 992 00:44:13,698 --> 00:44:16,228 in which Netscape was one of the hottest things around 993 00:44:16,228 --> 00:44:19,914 and Microsoft completely crushed Netscape. 994 00:44:19,914 --> 00:44:21,831 It doesn't exist anymore. 995 00:44:21,831 --> 00:44:25,440 - Internet wars, Microsoft vs. Netscape, 996 00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:27,357 Goliath takes on David. 997 00:44:28,934 --> 00:44:30,510 - [Robert] You find the same thing with Google. 998 00:44:30,510 --> 00:44:32,571 Every time there is a possible competitor, 999 00:44:32,571 --> 00:44:34,181 they go out and buy them out. 1000 00:44:34,181 --> 00:44:36,083 Like YouTube, etc. 1001 00:44:36,083 --> 00:44:37,938 - [Alan] Google buys YouTube. 1002 00:44:37,938 --> 00:44:39,687 - [Robert] You look at it with Amazon. 1003 00:44:39,687 --> 00:44:40,924 On and on down the line, 1004 00:44:40,924 --> 00:44:43,885 it's the dynamic in business where you need to consume 1005 00:44:43,885 --> 00:44:46,552 the various rivals in your path. 1006 00:44:47,392 --> 00:44:49,693 - "It can be said of men that they are ungrateful, 1007 00:44:49,693 --> 00:44:51,712 "fickle liars and deceivers. 1008 00:44:51,712 --> 00:44:55,753 "They shun danger and are greedy for profit." 1009 00:44:55,753 --> 00:44:58,998 - [Alan] I keep coming back to these lines from The Prince. 1010 00:44:58,998 --> 00:45:01,062 Is this what people are really like? 1011 00:45:01,062 --> 00:45:05,229 Are we all ungrateful, fickle liars and deceivers? 1012 00:45:06,673 --> 00:45:09,952 The Machiavelli Test is an attempt to answer that. 1013 00:45:09,952 --> 00:45:13,430 It was developed by psychologists in the 1960s. 1014 00:45:13,430 --> 00:45:17,444 20 questions tap into our Machiavellian instincts. 1015 00:45:17,444 --> 00:45:19,408 You end up with a score that tells you whether 1016 00:45:19,408 --> 00:45:22,755 you're a high Mac or a low Mac. 1017 00:45:22,755 --> 00:45:25,838 Now this is something I can't resist. 1018 00:45:26,836 --> 00:45:29,416 - Alan, in this test there are 20 statements. 1019 00:45:29,416 --> 00:45:31,061 I want you to indicate the extent to which 1020 00:45:31,061 --> 00:45:33,613 you agree or disagree with each statement. 1021 00:45:33,613 --> 00:45:36,507 I want you to answer as truthfully as you can. 1022 00:45:36,507 --> 00:45:39,546 Answer one if you strongly disagree with the statement, 1023 00:45:39,546 --> 00:45:41,118 two if you disagree, 1024 00:45:41,118 --> 00:45:43,046 three if you are neutral, 1025 00:45:43,046 --> 00:45:44,525 four if you agree, 1026 00:45:44,525 --> 00:45:46,538 and five if you strongly agree. 1027 00:45:46,538 --> 00:45:47,371 Okay? 1028 00:45:48,350 --> 00:45:49,627 Number one. 1029 00:45:49,627 --> 00:45:52,318 Never tell anyone the real reason you did something 1030 00:45:52,318 --> 00:45:54,735 unless it is useful to do so. 1031 00:45:56,045 --> 00:45:57,550 - Two. 1032 00:45:57,550 --> 00:45:59,437 - The best way to handle people is to tell them 1033 00:45:59,437 --> 00:46:01,354 what they want to hear. 1034 00:46:04,384 --> 00:46:05,217 - Three. 1035 00:46:06,584 --> 00:46:11,156 - It is hard to get ahead without cutting corners. 1036 00:46:11,156 --> 00:46:11,989 - Four. 1037 00:46:13,009 --> 00:46:16,996 - It is wise to flatter important people. 1038 00:46:16,996 --> 00:46:17,829 - Four. 1039 00:46:19,445 --> 00:46:23,200 Since its conception, there've been around 1,400 studies 1040 00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:25,699 that have used the Machiavelli Test. 1041 00:46:25,699 --> 00:46:28,347 So what do the results tell us? 1042 00:46:28,347 --> 00:46:29,727 - One of the most consistent findings 1043 00:46:29,727 --> 00:46:31,307 to come out of our studies 1044 00:46:31,307 --> 00:46:33,093 is that men are more Machiavellian than women. 1045 00:46:33,093 --> 00:46:34,239 Not by a great deal, 1046 00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:35,565 but they come out consistently more 1047 00:46:35,565 --> 00:46:37,107 Machiavellian than women. 1048 00:46:37,107 --> 00:46:40,111 Machiavellianism tends to peak in adolescence. 1049 00:46:40,111 --> 00:46:42,679 And another interesting finding to come from the studies 1050 00:46:42,679 --> 00:46:44,269 is that it doesn't matter what 1051 00:46:44,269 --> 00:46:45,970 your political orientation is. 1052 00:46:45,970 --> 00:46:47,625 That is, right wingers and left wingers 1053 00:46:47,625 --> 00:46:49,985 don't differ in Machiavellianism. 1054 00:46:49,985 --> 00:46:51,787 You might tend to think that perhaps right wingers 1055 00:46:51,787 --> 00:46:53,500 are perhaps a little bit more Machiavellian. 1056 00:46:53,500 --> 00:46:54,500 They're not. 1057 00:46:55,982 --> 00:46:57,672 - So how did I do? 1058 00:46:57,672 --> 00:46:59,580 - Well, Alan, I suppose it's good news. 1059 00:46:59,580 --> 00:47:03,855 You came out with a mean score of 2.95 on these questions. 1060 00:47:03,855 --> 00:47:06,277 Which means that you're neutral. 1061 00:47:06,277 --> 00:47:07,938 Or just tending to disagree 1062 00:47:07,938 --> 00:47:10,012 with the Machiavellian questions. 1063 00:47:10,012 --> 00:47:11,632 That makes you somewhat less Machiavellian 1064 00:47:11,632 --> 00:47:13,632 than the average person. 1065 00:47:14,558 --> 00:47:17,005 - But if I were truly Machiavellian, 1066 00:47:17,005 --> 00:47:20,009 I would probably be lying, wouldn't I? 1067 00:47:20,009 --> 00:47:21,609 - [Man] You probably would in this setting 1068 00:47:21,609 --> 00:47:23,602 because you're filming a documentary 1069 00:47:23,602 --> 00:47:25,934 and your responses are going out to the nation. 1070 00:47:25,934 --> 00:47:28,607 But if you were an anonymous research... 1071 00:47:28,607 --> 00:47:31,631 - [Alan] I'm still not sure what to make of Machiavelli. 1072 00:47:31,631 --> 00:47:35,767 Is The Prince a manual for tyrants, devoid of all morality, 1073 00:47:35,767 --> 00:47:38,998 or is it a realistic guide to life? 1074 00:47:38,998 --> 00:47:42,594 Is Machiavelli a goodie or a baddie? 1075 00:47:42,594 --> 00:47:45,491 - It seems to me that he holds a place as a cultural icon. 1076 00:47:45,491 --> 00:47:46,935 He's a baddie. 1077 00:47:46,935 --> 00:47:48,565 Whereas actually the book is about 1078 00:47:48,565 --> 00:47:52,594 the exposure of the nature of badness and goodness. 1079 00:47:52,594 --> 00:47:55,702 It says, we need to think of morality as a toolkit. 1080 00:47:55,702 --> 00:47:59,869 Vices and virtues are artifacts we've invented to survive. 1081 00:48:01,084 --> 00:48:04,260 - [Alan] Is it a sort of realistic view of human nature, 1082 00:48:04,260 --> 00:48:05,444 and not just of human nature, 1083 00:48:05,444 --> 00:48:07,664 but the journey that we all have to make? 1084 00:48:07,664 --> 00:48:08,883 - Well, yes, it could be. 1085 00:48:08,883 --> 00:48:12,215 But it could be a realistic view of human nature 1086 00:48:12,215 --> 00:48:16,354 after you've lost belief in love and kindness. 1087 00:48:16,354 --> 00:48:17,616 But you could put it the other way round and think 1088 00:48:17,616 --> 00:48:19,775 that what's being said is, 1089 00:48:19,775 --> 00:48:24,130 if virtue isn't necessarily rewarded, why be virtuous? 1090 00:48:24,130 --> 00:48:25,572 Which is a good question. 1091 00:48:25,572 --> 00:48:26,803 And the answer would be something like, 1092 00:48:26,803 --> 00:48:29,509 well, virtue is good in and of itself. 1093 00:48:29,509 --> 00:48:31,305 It's better to be kind than to be cruel. 1094 00:48:31,305 --> 00:48:33,251 Not because you'll do better in life, 1095 00:48:33,251 --> 00:48:36,083 but because it's better to be kind than to be cruel. 1096 00:48:36,083 --> 00:48:38,747 - I'm keen on the thought that Machiavelli is a moralist, 1097 00:48:38,747 --> 00:48:41,049 he's just not a kind of moralist whom I admire. 1098 00:48:41,049 --> 00:48:43,390 He is someone who thinks that the quality of your actions 1099 00:48:43,390 --> 00:48:46,186 is to be judged in terms of their consequences. 1100 00:48:46,186 --> 00:48:50,068 That allows him this great leeway for saying, well, 1101 00:48:50,068 --> 00:48:52,168 it's necessary for the goal, 1102 00:48:52,168 --> 00:48:54,110 which is a good one, for you to do evil. 1103 00:48:54,110 --> 00:48:57,314 And don't worry about the fact that you have done something 1104 00:48:57,314 --> 00:49:00,962 which is unjust if you are certain that if you didn't do it 1105 00:49:00,962 --> 00:49:02,896 it would have affected the security 1106 00:49:02,896 --> 00:49:04,583 and the well-being of the state. 1107 00:49:04,583 --> 00:49:06,646 Because your job is to maintain that. 1108 00:49:06,646 --> 00:49:08,736 And the point is, you've got to maintain 1109 00:49:08,736 --> 00:49:10,452 that whatever happens. 1110 00:49:10,452 --> 00:49:12,883 That's the horrible thing about Machiavelli. 1111 00:49:12,883 --> 00:49:13,920 I mean, let's be clear. 1112 00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:15,823 This is, I think, a horrible book. 1113 00:49:15,823 --> 00:49:18,011 I mean it's a horrible book because it says, 1114 00:49:18,011 --> 00:49:19,545 don't worry about the virtues, 1115 00:49:19,545 --> 00:49:21,371 just worry about consequences. 1116 00:49:21,371 --> 00:49:23,123 Your job is to keep people secure. 1117 00:49:23,123 --> 00:49:24,602 Do whatever is necessary. 1118 00:49:24,602 --> 00:49:26,316 Well, if you think about the implications of that, 1119 00:49:26,316 --> 00:49:28,235 they're pretty appalling. 1120 00:49:28,235 --> 00:49:30,129 - I also think there's a despair in this. 1121 00:49:30,129 --> 00:49:32,950 Because the fundamental despair in it is the assumption that 1122 00:49:32,950 --> 00:49:35,192 people don't want to collaborate with each other. 1123 00:49:35,192 --> 00:49:38,473 That people don't want to look after each other. 1124 00:49:38,473 --> 00:49:40,493 You can imagine it also as a book written 1125 00:49:40,493 --> 00:49:42,435 in the aftermath of a trauma. 1126 00:49:42,435 --> 00:49:44,192 And in a way, of course, he was in prison. 1127 00:49:44,192 --> 00:49:46,624 So there was a trauma. 1128 00:49:46,624 --> 00:49:49,758 You could think Machiavelli is very disillusioned 1129 00:49:49,758 --> 00:49:51,185 about a lot of things. 1130 00:49:51,185 --> 00:49:54,208 So it's a bit like he's saying, once you lose heart, 1131 00:49:54,208 --> 00:49:57,316 once you lose belief in human goodness and collaboration 1132 00:49:57,316 --> 00:49:58,779 and kindness and love, 1133 00:49:58,779 --> 00:50:00,712 this is what the world is going to look like. 1134 00:50:00,712 --> 00:50:02,549 And more and more of us are gonna have experiences 1135 00:50:02,549 --> 00:50:03,977 in which we feel disillusioned, 1136 00:50:03,977 --> 00:50:06,172 so we need to wise up to this. 1137 00:50:06,172 --> 00:50:07,914 ("Made Niggaz" by Tupac Shakur) 1138 00:50:07,914 --> 00:50:09,867 - [Alan] This is Tupac Shakur. 1139 00:50:09,867 --> 00:50:12,601 He'd been huge fan of Machiavelli 1140 00:50:12,601 --> 00:50:15,964 before he was gunned down 1996. 1141 00:50:15,964 --> 00:50:17,512 When was in prison, 1142 00:50:17,512 --> 00:50:19,907 he studied The Prince and when he got out 1143 00:50:19,907 --> 00:50:23,237 he changed his name to Makaveli. 1144 00:50:23,237 --> 00:50:24,796 And made videos like this. 1145 00:50:24,796 --> 00:50:26,981 ♫ Makaveli the Don till I'm gone 1146 00:50:26,981 --> 00:50:29,515 - [Alan] More recently, the rapper 50 Cent 1147 00:50:29,515 --> 00:50:31,222 wrote a book with Robert Greene 1148 00:50:31,222 --> 00:50:32,937 called The 50th Law, 1149 00:50:32,937 --> 00:50:35,550 a Machiavellian bible for success 1150 00:50:35,550 --> 00:50:39,217 based on the single principal, fear nothing. 1151 00:50:40,643 --> 00:50:44,492 - There is not a single more Machiavellian environment 1152 00:50:44,492 --> 00:50:46,434 than the music industry on this planet. 1153 00:50:46,434 --> 00:50:50,052 It makes Hollywood look like kindergarten. 1154 00:50:50,052 --> 00:50:51,653 It is ruthless. 1155 00:50:51,653 --> 00:50:54,253 It's Game of Thrones times five. 1156 00:50:54,253 --> 00:50:57,600 And so someone like 50, he said it helped him. 1157 00:50:57,600 --> 00:51:01,767 It helped him negotiate this shark-infested environment. 1158 00:51:02,625 --> 00:51:04,489 Power is a neutral term. 1159 00:51:04,489 --> 00:51:07,763 It can be used for bad and it can be used for good. 1160 00:51:07,763 --> 00:51:09,263 It's like a tool. 1161 00:51:19,955 --> 00:51:22,467 - [Alan] Apart from Tupac and 50 Cent, 1162 00:51:22,467 --> 00:51:25,906 who else these days measures up to Machiavelli? 1163 00:51:25,906 --> 00:51:28,656 Who would Machiavelli approve of? 1164 00:51:29,526 --> 00:51:31,558 - Well, a lot of what Machiavelli is about 1165 00:51:31,558 --> 00:51:32,869 is about being strategic, 1166 00:51:32,869 --> 00:51:36,458 about trying to think in a longer term frame. 1167 00:51:36,458 --> 00:51:38,061 So if you think about someone like Alex Ferguson 1168 00:51:38,061 --> 00:51:38,985 of Manchester United, 1169 00:51:38,985 --> 00:51:40,752 he was clearly as strategic manager. 1170 00:51:40,752 --> 00:51:42,285 He wasn't trying to think about the next match, 1171 00:51:42,285 --> 00:51:44,123 he was thinking on a much longer time frame. 1172 00:51:44,123 --> 00:51:45,228 I think someone like that would be 1173 00:51:45,228 --> 00:51:47,040 an unconscious Machiavellian. 1174 00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:50,244 - I would say that the most person 1175 00:51:50,244 --> 00:51:52,473 certainly in my lifetime 1176 00:51:52,473 --> 00:51:56,260 that I would resemble to Machiavelli 1177 00:51:56,260 --> 00:51:58,488 would be Margaret Thatcher. 1178 00:51:58,488 --> 00:52:00,701 She certainly wasn't loved by her Cabinet. 1179 00:52:00,701 --> 00:52:03,383 But she was certainly feared. 1180 00:52:03,383 --> 00:52:05,412 - I think if you're looking for a very good example 1181 00:52:05,412 --> 00:52:08,662 of an institution that has applied well 1182 00:52:10,164 --> 00:52:13,711 some of the lessons and the principles in The Prince, 1183 00:52:13,711 --> 00:52:16,435 you'll find them in the Royal Family. 1184 00:52:16,435 --> 00:52:18,343 I mean, there was a period when 1185 00:52:18,343 --> 00:52:20,179 actually the sense of the royal brand, 1186 00:52:20,179 --> 00:52:22,435 if you like, was becoming quite negative. 1187 00:52:22,435 --> 00:52:23,792 Well, they've seen that off. 1188 00:52:23,792 --> 00:52:24,625 Big time. 1189 00:52:24,625 --> 00:52:26,482 And I think they've seen it off, in part, 1190 00:52:26,482 --> 00:52:28,809 by operating some of these 1191 00:52:28,809 --> 00:52:31,966 timeless principles that are set out in The Prince. 1192 00:52:31,966 --> 00:52:34,383 But in very a modern context. 1193 00:52:36,446 --> 00:52:38,665 - [Alan] The Prince may anticipate a world 1194 00:52:38,665 --> 00:52:40,869 five centuries into the future, 1195 00:52:40,869 --> 00:52:44,018 but what happened to the book itself? 1196 00:52:44,018 --> 00:52:46,259 It was published in 1532 1197 00:52:46,259 --> 00:52:49,765 and not surprisingly the Pope banned it. 1198 00:52:49,765 --> 00:52:53,320 - The Papal Index is set up in 1559. 1199 00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:55,417 It's simply an alphabetical list of books 1200 00:52:55,417 --> 00:52:56,569 which you mustn't read. 1201 00:52:56,569 --> 00:52:58,526 They are mostly Lutheran and Calvinist books, 1202 00:52:58,526 --> 00:53:01,323 works of deep heresy according to the Catholic Church. 1203 00:53:01,323 --> 00:53:03,853 But some secular writers are in there, 1204 00:53:03,853 --> 00:53:06,721 and Nicholas Machiavelli is in there 1205 00:53:06,721 --> 00:53:10,888 under the heading "all his works are totally banned." 1206 00:53:14,067 --> 00:53:15,638 - [Alan] But that didn't stop The Prince 1207 00:53:15,638 --> 00:53:17,031 from reaching England 1208 00:53:17,031 --> 00:53:19,191 and cementing Niccolo Machiavelli's 1209 00:53:19,191 --> 00:53:22,358 reputation as Old Nick - the devil. 1210 00:53:23,238 --> 00:53:25,395 - England was the country that really 1211 00:53:25,395 --> 00:53:26,521 played the biggest role 1212 00:53:26,521 --> 00:53:30,179 in spreading this idea that this man was satanic. 1213 00:53:30,179 --> 00:53:32,773 (grunting) 1214 00:53:32,773 --> 00:53:34,827 - [Alan] Shakespeare doesn't exactly help, 1215 00:53:34,827 --> 00:53:36,831 as Machiavelli's name is evoked by 1216 00:53:36,831 --> 00:53:39,182 the scheming Duke of Gloucester, 1217 00:53:39,182 --> 00:53:41,150 the future Richard III. 1218 00:53:41,150 --> 00:53:43,745 - I can add colors to the Chameleon, 1219 00:53:43,745 --> 00:53:46,191 change shapes with Proteus for advantages 1220 00:53:46,191 --> 00:53:50,082 and set the murderous Machiavel to school. 1221 00:53:50,082 --> 00:53:52,780 - [Alan] We may have inherited this idea of Machiavelli 1222 00:53:52,780 --> 00:53:56,727 as the devil, but that's not what the Italians think. 1223 00:53:56,727 --> 00:54:00,184 In Florence, his statue stands outside the Uffizi 1224 00:54:00,184 --> 00:54:03,197 alongside the Italian greats. 1225 00:54:03,197 --> 00:54:06,614 The Prince is even a set text in schools. 1226 00:54:15,333 --> 00:54:17,466 - If you think for instance that it's one of 1227 00:54:17,466 --> 00:54:19,452 the three Italian books 1228 00:54:19,452 --> 00:54:21,367 translated all over the world, 1229 00:54:21,367 --> 00:54:23,849 in almost all language in the world. 1230 00:54:23,849 --> 00:54:26,817 And the other ones are Dante's, of course, 1231 00:54:26,817 --> 00:54:30,292 comedy of Dante, and Pinocchio by Collodi. 1232 00:54:30,292 --> 00:54:33,923 So The Prince, Pinocchio and Dante, 1233 00:54:33,923 --> 00:54:37,058 the three most translated books. 1234 00:54:37,058 --> 00:54:41,000 This is something, don't you know? (laughing) 1235 00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:42,213 - [Alan] And there's another reason 1236 00:54:42,213 --> 00:54:44,120 why Machiavelli is admired. 1237 00:54:44,120 --> 00:54:46,556 Ultimately, he was in favor of republics 1238 00:54:46,556 --> 00:54:49,397 rather than inherited rule. 1239 00:54:49,397 --> 00:54:52,270 - He distinguishes between an old prince and a new prince. 1240 00:54:52,270 --> 00:54:54,993 Old princes are people who have inherited their position. 1241 00:54:54,993 --> 00:54:57,884 But then there's the new prince who rises from the bottom. 1242 00:54:57,884 --> 00:55:00,428 He's completely on the side of the new prince 1243 00:55:00,428 --> 00:55:02,420 because he believes that the new prince 1244 00:55:02,420 --> 00:55:06,668 can only rise to the top with their own energy. 1245 00:55:06,668 --> 00:55:08,351 - Now one of the interesting things about The Prince is 1246 00:55:08,351 --> 00:55:10,352 it's got an irony attached to it. 1247 00:55:10,352 --> 00:55:12,764 It's saying, if you want to hold onto power, 1248 00:55:12,764 --> 00:55:14,540 this is how to behave. 1249 00:55:14,540 --> 00:55:17,075 But we can all read it. 1250 00:55:17,075 --> 00:55:21,815 So it's a book about trickery which exposes the tricks. 1251 00:55:21,815 --> 00:55:25,089 - Here are some different translations of The Prince. 1252 00:55:25,089 --> 00:55:28,746 We really received them from the many visitors coming here. 1253 00:55:28,746 --> 00:55:32,704 We have French, from the Republica Czecha, 1254 00:55:32,704 --> 00:55:34,324 in Norwegian, 1255 00:55:34,324 --> 00:55:36,907 from Oslo, in German, 1256 00:55:36,907 --> 00:55:38,240 Korean, Russian. 1257 00:55:39,761 --> 00:55:42,594 A doctor from Israel sent us this. 1258 00:55:43,540 --> 00:55:44,983 Chinese. 1259 00:55:44,983 --> 00:55:47,612 This we received from Belgrade. 1260 00:55:47,612 --> 00:55:49,029 Polish, Japanese, 1261 00:55:50,026 --> 00:55:51,443 Finnish, Turkish, 1262 00:55:52,532 --> 00:55:54,282 Argentina, Norwegian, 1263 00:55:55,329 --> 00:55:57,162 and English of course. 1264 00:56:00,308 --> 00:56:02,058 And this is his land, 1265 00:56:03,044 --> 00:56:06,371 his vineyards, his olive trees, 1266 00:56:06,371 --> 00:56:07,454 his property. 1267 00:56:09,451 --> 00:56:11,622 - [Alan] Today Machiavelli's house is owned 1268 00:56:11,622 --> 00:56:13,241 by a wine company. 1269 00:56:13,241 --> 00:56:15,967 Across the road, you can order a Chianti 1270 00:56:15,967 --> 00:56:18,605 from Machiavelli's vineyard. 1271 00:56:18,605 --> 00:56:20,665 Here's to The Prince. 1272 00:56:20,665 --> 00:56:21,676 - Okay. 1273 00:56:21,676 --> 00:56:23,212 (glasses clinking) 1274 00:56:23,212 --> 00:56:24,545 Now tell me, 1275 00:56:24,545 --> 00:56:28,367 do many people come here to visit the home of Machiavelli? 1276 00:56:28,367 --> 00:56:31,379 - [Lucia] Yes, from all over the world. 1277 00:56:31,379 --> 00:56:35,268 Many years ago, came Tony Blair also. 1278 00:56:35,268 --> 00:56:36,101 - Really? 1279 00:56:36,101 --> 00:56:37,005 - [Lucia] Really. 1280 00:56:37,005 --> 00:56:38,468 - When did he come here? 1281 00:56:38,468 --> 00:56:40,635 - [Lucia] He came in 1998. 1282 00:56:41,531 --> 00:56:44,206 - [Alan] So just a year after he came to power. 1283 00:56:44,206 --> 00:56:46,366 - [Lucia] Yeah, mmm-hmm. 1284 00:56:46,366 --> 00:56:47,880 - [Alan] Did you take him round the house? 1285 00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:50,746 - Si, we went around, and we gave him, 1286 00:56:50,746 --> 00:56:53,355 of course, a copy of The Prince. 1287 00:56:53,355 --> 00:56:54,228 - Did you really? 1288 00:56:54,228 --> 00:56:55,061 - Yeah. 1289 00:56:55,061 --> 00:56:56,872 - In Italian or English? 1290 00:56:56,872 --> 00:56:57,955 - In Italian. 1291 00:56:58,875 --> 00:57:03,075 - [Alan] But what happened to Machiavelli himself? 1292 00:57:03,075 --> 00:57:05,104 The whole of the point of writing The Prince was to get 1293 00:57:05,104 --> 00:57:08,331 noticed by the most powerful man in Florence. 1294 00:57:08,331 --> 00:57:11,199 But Machiavelli totally failed. 1295 00:57:11,199 --> 00:57:12,423 As far as we know, 1296 00:57:12,423 --> 00:57:15,135 Lorenzo the Magnificent never even read it 1297 00:57:15,135 --> 00:57:18,853 and Machiavelli never got his job back. 1298 00:57:18,853 --> 00:57:21,166 He ended up here on his estate, 1299 00:57:21,166 --> 00:57:24,666 drinking wine and writing books and plays. 1300 00:57:25,695 --> 00:57:28,177 - In many ways, Machiavelli was a failure. 1301 00:57:28,177 --> 00:57:30,460 Because he gave advice that other people 1302 00:57:30,460 --> 00:57:33,262 could never be seen to be taking. 1303 00:57:33,262 --> 00:57:35,249 It may well have been very useful to other people, 1304 00:57:35,249 --> 00:57:36,521 but the last thing they could do, 1305 00:57:36,521 --> 00:57:38,731 according to his own tenets in the book, 1306 00:57:38,731 --> 00:57:42,651 is show that they were taking his advice. 1307 00:57:42,651 --> 00:57:45,312 - [Alan] The biggest irony in this whole story 1308 00:57:45,312 --> 00:57:47,324 is that Machiavelli himself 1309 00:57:47,324 --> 00:57:52,245 didn't appear to be in the least bit Machiavellian. 1310 00:57:52,245 --> 00:57:55,721 In a letter to a friend, Machiavelli once wrote: 1311 00:57:55,721 --> 00:57:58,403 "When evening comes I go back home. 1312 00:57:58,403 --> 00:58:00,187 "I take off my work clothes 1313 00:58:00,187 --> 00:58:03,476 "and put on the clothes of an ambassador. 1314 00:58:03,476 --> 00:58:06,690 "I enter the ancient courts of rulers. 1315 00:58:06,690 --> 00:58:08,947 "I forget every worry. 1316 00:58:08,947 --> 00:58:11,490 "I'm no longer afraid of poverty 1317 00:58:11,490 --> 00:58:13,830 "or frightened of death. 1318 00:58:13,830 --> 00:58:16,413 "I live entirely through them." 1319 00:58:18,620 --> 00:58:22,120 Machiavelli died in 1527 at the age of 58, 1320 00:58:23,096 --> 00:58:27,012 five years before The Prince was published. 1321 00:58:27,012 --> 00:58:30,377 Little did he know that 500 years later 1322 00:58:30,377 --> 00:58:33,639 what he called his "little pamphlet" would remain 1323 00:58:33,639 --> 00:58:37,556 one of the most influential books ever written. 1324 00:58:41,574 --> 00:58:43,638 ♫ Makaveli the Don, till I'm gone 1325 00:58:43,638 --> 00:58:45,187 ♫ I maintain my army 1326 00:58:45,187 --> 00:58:46,877 ♫ Of lunatics that stay armed 1327 00:58:46,877 --> 00:58:47,829 ♫ Till the day I die 1328 00:58:47,829 --> 00:58:49,350 - [Woman] Alan. 1329 00:58:49,350 --> 00:58:50,910 Alan. 1330 00:58:50,910 --> 00:58:52,266 What about the BBC? 1331 00:58:52,266 --> 00:58:55,766 Surely that's a Machiavellian institution? 1332 00:58:57,423 --> 00:59:01,472 - You may think that but I couldn't possibly comment. 1333 00:59:01,472 --> 00:59:02,944 ♫ My life in exchange for yours 1334 00:59:02,944 --> 00:59:04,337 ♫ Born hated as a thug 1335 00:59:04,337 --> 00:59:05,634 ♫ House full of babies cryin' 1336 00:59:05,634 --> 00:59:06,897 ♫ From a lack of gettin' love 1337 00:59:06,897 --> 00:59:08,321 ♫ Ain't nobody tell me shit 1338 00:59:08,321 --> 00:59:09,594 ♫ 'Til I got a sack of drugs 1339 00:59:09,594 --> 00:59:10,911 ♫ Had the block sewn up 1340 00:59:10,911 --> 00:59:12,002 ♫ 'Cause I learned to pack a gun 1341 00:59:12,002 --> 00:59:12,835 ♫ Do you feel me