WEBVTT 00:00:02.094 --> 00:00:04.677 (bell tolling) 00:00:09.005 --> 00:00:10.693 - [Alan] Niccolo Machiavelli, 00:00:10.693 --> 00:00:13.312 16th-century Italian diplomat, 00:00:13.312 --> 00:00:15.895 political thinker, arch-baddie. 00:00:16.797 --> 00:00:18.699 His name conjures up everything 00:00:18.699 --> 00:00:21.933 that's sly about human behavior. 00:00:21.933 --> 00:00:24.162 - Well, we have an image of what the Machiavellian is. 00:00:24.162 --> 00:00:26.907 I mean, the word is in our dictionaries, he is an adjective. 00:00:26.907 --> 00:00:31.089 - [Man] "Machiavellian: astute, cunning, intriguing." 00:00:31.089 --> 00:00:33.566 - Controlling, powerful. 00:00:33.566 --> 00:00:35.696 - Sinister, underhand. 00:00:35.696 --> 00:00:37.325 - Devious, scheming. 00:00:37.325 --> 00:00:38.825 - Cunning, subtle. 00:00:40.141 --> 00:00:42.224 - Nefarious, manipulative 00:00:43.099 --> 00:00:45.016 and to a degree, cruel. 00:00:46.160 --> 00:00:48.673 - Peter Mandelson regularly gets described as Machiavellian, 00:00:48.673 --> 00:00:52.604 I was regularly described as Machiavellian. 00:00:52.604 --> 00:00:55.750 - [Alan] And it's all because of this: The Prince, 00:00:55.750 --> 00:00:57.591 written 500 years ago. 00:00:57.591 --> 00:01:01.778 It's about power, how to get it and how to keep it. 00:01:01.778 --> 00:01:04.215 - "It can be said of men that they are ungrateful, 00:01:04.215 --> 00:01:06.085 "fickle liars and deceivers. 00:01:06.085 --> 00:01:09.364 "They shun danger and are greedy for profit. 00:01:09.364 --> 00:01:11.663 "Therefore, it is necessary for a ruler 00:01:11.663 --> 00:01:13.807 "who wishes to maintain his position 00:01:13.807 --> 00:01:17.224 "to learn how to be able not to be good." 00:01:18.640 --> 00:01:21.850 - [Alan] Machiavelli wrote The Prince in 1513. 00:01:21.850 --> 00:01:25.009 It was shocking then and it's shocking now. 00:01:25.009 --> 00:01:27.574 - It's almost as if his name, itself, machi-evil, 00:01:27.574 --> 00:01:30.822 it just lends itself to a form of demonization. 00:01:30.822 --> 00:01:34.370 - "Chapter 17, of cruelty and mercy, 00:01:34.370 --> 00:01:37.723 "and whether it is better to be loved than feared. 00:01:37.723 --> 00:01:39.297 "Or the contrary." 00:01:39.297 --> 00:01:40.935 - There is absolutely nobody in history 00:01:40.935 --> 00:01:44.825 who's had more influence on modern affairs, on politics, 00:01:44.825 --> 00:01:47.588 than Niccolo Machiavelli. 00:01:47.588 --> 00:01:49.484 - [Alan] So what are we to make of The Prince on this, 00:01:49.484 --> 00:01:51.879 its 500th anniversary? 00:01:51.879 --> 00:01:54.811 How useful and relevant is it today? 00:01:54.811 --> 00:01:57.038 - One of the most important books ever written 00:01:57.038 --> 00:02:01.205 and a really useful how-to guide for contemporary reality. 00:02:02.391 --> 00:02:03.899 - [Alan] Was Machiavelli right? 00:02:03.899 --> 00:02:06.715 Should we all learn how not to be good? 00:02:06.715 --> 00:02:09.113 Is it better to be feared than loved? 00:02:09.113 --> 00:02:12.780 And who are the 21st-century Machiavellians? 00:02:13.816 --> 00:02:16.566 (dramatic music) 00:02:20.212 --> 00:02:24.379 (birds chirping) (wings fluttering) 00:02:26.840 --> 00:02:29.507 (ominous music) 00:02:33.893 --> 00:02:35.654 Actually, we're not in Florence. 00:02:35.654 --> 00:02:39.346 we're 10 miles south of Florence in San Casciano. 00:02:39.346 --> 00:02:42.611 This was Machiavelli's country house in the 1500s 00:02:42.611 --> 00:02:44.664 and I'm here for a guided tour. 00:02:44.664 --> 00:02:46.997 (knocking) 00:02:49.499 --> 00:02:53.893 (speaking in foreign language) 00:02:53.893 --> 00:02:55.272 Where he wrote The Prince? 00:02:55.272 --> 00:02:56.880 - Si, exactly. 00:02:56.880 --> 00:02:57.743 - [Alan] And what is this? 00:02:57.743 --> 00:02:59.663 - That is his coat of arms. 00:02:59.663 --> 00:03:01.448 His family's coat of arm. 00:03:01.448 --> 00:03:03.180 The cross and the nails. 00:03:03.180 --> 00:03:04.208 - [Alan] The cross and the nails. 00:03:04.208 --> 00:03:05.105 - [Lucia] Mmm-hmm. 00:03:05.105 --> 00:03:06.018 Machiavelli. 00:03:06.018 --> 00:03:07.476 - [Alan] What does that mean? 00:03:07.476 --> 00:03:11.703 - It refers back to his name, Machiavelli, 00:03:11.703 --> 00:03:15.870 so related with the cross and the nails of Christ. 00:03:18.675 --> 00:03:21.018 - [Alan] Not a bad coat of arms for a man who, 00:03:21.018 --> 00:03:24.736 for centuries, was known as the Antichrist. 00:03:24.736 --> 00:03:26.811 But the cross and nails might just as well stand 00:03:26.811 --> 00:03:30.811 for the violent times Machiavelli lived through. 00:03:32.193 --> 00:03:34.413 - Florence was a city-state, 00:03:34.413 --> 00:03:37.577 occupying and controlling only a very small portion 00:03:37.577 --> 00:03:39.466 of a very chaotic Italy, 00:03:39.466 --> 00:03:43.387 surrounded by other city-states that were allies on Tuesday, 00:03:43.387 --> 00:03:46.819 enemies on Wednesday and then allies again on Thursday. 00:03:46.819 --> 00:03:49.471 The situation was constantly changing. 00:03:49.471 --> 00:03:50.614 It was very treacherous, 00:03:50.614 --> 00:03:52.121 you didn't know who your friends were 00:03:52.121 --> 00:03:53.876 and you couldn't trust anyone, 00:03:53.876 --> 00:03:55.959 so they had to be clever. 00:03:58.665 --> 00:04:00.280 - [Alan] Before he wrote The Prince, 00:04:00.280 --> 00:04:04.257 Machiavelli worked here at the Palazzio Vecchio in Florence. 00:04:04.257 --> 00:04:08.349 The old regime, run by the Medici, had just been deposed. 00:04:08.349 --> 00:04:11.478 A new regime was in charge and Machiavelli served them 00:04:11.478 --> 00:04:13.645 as a high-flying diplomat. 00:04:14.576 --> 00:04:17.286 - Machiavelli found himself at the center 00:04:17.286 --> 00:04:18.975 of all the diplomatic and political 00:04:18.975 --> 00:04:21.968 negotiations within that period. 00:04:21.968 --> 00:04:24.293 And it was his ability as a political analyst 00:04:24.293 --> 00:04:26.626 that enabled him to advance. 00:04:28.362 --> 00:04:29.552 - [Alan] But just when things were going 00:04:29.552 --> 00:04:31.270 so well for Machiavelli, 00:04:31.270 --> 00:04:33.195 the Medici returned to power 00:04:33.195 --> 00:04:35.885 and events took a dramatic turn, 00:04:35.885 --> 00:04:38.010 events that would ultimately lead 00:04:38.010 --> 00:04:40.427 to the writing of The Prince. 00:04:41.310 --> 00:04:45.163 - He was falsely accused in February of 1513 00:04:45.163 --> 00:04:47.985 of taking part in an anti-Medician conspiracy. 00:04:47.985 --> 00:04:49.807 And he's horribly tortured. 00:04:49.807 --> 00:04:52.557 And then he's thrown into prison. 00:04:55.593 --> 00:04:56.838 - [Alan] There aren't many documents 00:04:56.838 --> 00:04:59.372 relating to Machiavelli at this time. 00:04:59.372 --> 00:05:02.271 But this year British historian Stephen Milner 00:05:02.271 --> 00:05:05.316 discovered one of the most important of all. 00:05:05.316 --> 00:05:08.123 He was researching Florentine town criers 00:05:08.123 --> 00:05:12.290 when he stumbled across Machiavelli's arrest warrant. 00:05:13.139 --> 00:05:16.263 - Florence was an incredible place for collecting documents, 00:05:16.263 --> 00:05:18.067 partly because they didn't trust each other. 00:05:18.067 --> 00:05:20.549 They were, where are we? 00:05:20.549 --> 00:05:21.382 There we go. 00:05:21.382 --> 00:05:22.829 - Oh, there we go. 00:05:22.829 --> 00:05:25.718 So, this is it? You just happened to... 00:05:25.718 --> 00:05:28.020 - I ordered this particular volume, 00:05:28.020 --> 00:05:30.098 and this was the one that contained 00:05:30.098 --> 00:05:32.265 the original proclamation. 00:05:33.410 --> 00:05:35.987 It was carried through the city by the town crier, 00:05:35.987 --> 00:05:38.509 and that, they actually would have read and held 00:05:38.509 --> 00:05:42.210 whilst on horseback through the various places 00:05:42.210 --> 00:05:45.843 where these proclamations were made. 00:05:45.843 --> 00:05:47.174 You can see there's a little hole in the middle 00:05:47.174 --> 00:05:50.206 where they put them on a spike for record-keeping. 00:05:50.206 --> 00:05:53.637 And here we see Niccolo di me se Bernardo Machiavelli. 00:05:53.637 --> 00:05:55.344 - So, what is the arrest for? 00:05:55.344 --> 00:05:57.088 - The proclamation is asking, 00:05:57.088 --> 00:05:59.551 it's a notice asking for the whereabouts of Machiavelli 00:05:59.551 --> 00:06:01.755 and for people to come forward with information. 00:06:01.755 --> 00:06:04.097 It actually says within the hour, 00:06:04.097 --> 00:06:06.544 (speaking in foreign language) 00:06:06.544 --> 00:06:08.382 which gives you some idea of the urgency 00:06:08.382 --> 00:06:10.181 that lay behind his arrest. 00:06:10.181 --> 00:06:12.270 And it says, "If they are not informed, 00:06:12.270 --> 00:06:14.614 "they will not be excused." 00:06:14.614 --> 00:06:16.984 So there were no excuses for not notifying. 00:06:16.984 --> 00:06:18.248 - [Alan] Tough stuff. (chuckles) 00:06:18.248 --> 00:06:22.009 - It is a kind of most-wanted proclamation, if you like. 00:06:22.009 --> 00:06:23.739 I think working in the archives in Florence, 00:06:23.739 --> 00:06:26.598 it's kind of a drug, in a sense, of archive fever. 00:06:26.598 --> 00:06:28.296 You never know when you turn a page 00:06:28.296 --> 00:06:30.308 what you're going to bump into. 00:06:30.308 --> 00:06:33.631 There's a lovely proverb from the Renaissance 00:06:33.631 --> 00:06:34.806 period that says, 00:06:34.806 --> 00:06:36.974 (speaking in foreign language) 00:06:36.974 --> 00:06:39.703 "Get it in writing, you can't trust anybody." 00:06:39.703 --> 00:06:41.566 It's almost a kind of mantra for 00:06:41.566 --> 00:06:44.483 Machiavelli's own writing, I think. 00:06:48.815 --> 00:06:50.350 - Well, here we are in the Bargello, 00:06:50.350 --> 00:06:52.799 which is the Florentine police headquarters, 00:06:52.799 --> 00:06:55.037 and this is where Machiavelli was brought 00:06:55.037 --> 00:06:57.537 shortly after he was arrested. 00:06:59.617 --> 00:07:01.103 He claimed that he was tortured, 00:07:01.103 --> 00:07:03.370 that he was actually put on a form of rack, 00:07:03.370 --> 00:07:07.537 that he went three notches on the rack without cracking. 00:07:08.705 --> 00:07:09.863 But there's absolutely no evidence 00:07:09.863 --> 00:07:13.196 that he was involved in this conspiracy. 00:07:16.614 --> 00:07:18.920 - But he has a stroke of good fortune as well, 00:07:18.920 --> 00:07:21.499 which is, the next month, 00:07:21.499 --> 00:07:23.780 the Pope Julius dies 00:07:23.780 --> 00:07:27.197 and the Medici acquire the papacy, Leo X. 00:07:28.748 --> 00:07:32.675 And he declares great rejoicings in the city and an amnesty, 00:07:32.675 --> 00:07:35.008 and so Machiavelli is freed. 00:07:36.438 --> 00:07:39.144 - [Stephen] But he was in effect banned from the city, 00:07:39.144 --> 00:07:41.079 he was sent out to his farmhouse 00:07:41.079 --> 00:07:42.984 and kept under house arrest. 00:07:42.984 --> 00:07:44.256 Rather like being on probation, 00:07:44.256 --> 00:07:47.208 he had to remain within a certain distance of the city 00:07:47.208 --> 00:07:48.753 and that's where, in his study, he began to write 00:07:48.753 --> 00:07:51.336 what we now know as The Prince. 00:07:52.869 --> 00:07:54.286 - And here he is. 00:07:58.937 --> 00:08:01.203 - "Those who wish to win the favor of a prince 00:08:01.203 --> 00:08:02.868 "will generally approach him 00:08:02.868 --> 00:08:05.149 "with gifts they believe will most delight him. 00:08:05.149 --> 00:08:08.728 "Hence we see princes being offered horses, arms, 00:08:08.728 --> 00:08:12.068 "vestments of gold and similar accoutrements. 00:08:12.068 --> 00:08:14.621 "I have found among my possessions 00:08:14.621 --> 00:08:16.709 "nothing I value higher 00:08:16.709 --> 00:08:21.232 "than my knowledge of the deeds of great men." 00:08:21.232 --> 00:08:22.503 - [Alan] This is how Machiavelli 00:08:22.503 --> 00:08:25.216 begins The Prince in 1513, 00:08:25.216 --> 00:08:27.963 with a dedication to Lorenzo the Magnificent, 00:08:27.963 --> 00:08:30.148 the young Medici ruler. 00:08:30.148 --> 00:08:34.179 It was a blatant attempt to suck up to the new regime. 00:08:34.179 --> 00:08:35.692 You need me, he's saying, 00:08:35.692 --> 00:08:38.692 because I know the secrets of power. 00:08:39.715 --> 00:08:43.791 The book is in essence a job application. 00:08:43.791 --> 00:08:47.325 - We have here The Prince manuscript. 00:08:47.325 --> 00:08:50.402 As you see, it is beautifully illuminated 00:08:50.402 --> 00:08:52.819 and it's datable about 1520s, 00:08:54.976 --> 00:08:58.328 and it's in the hand of the closest friend of Machiavelli, 00:08:58.328 --> 00:08:59.911 Biagio Buonaccorsi. 00:09:00.775 --> 00:09:05.312 It's one of the most eldest copy absolutely ever. 00:09:05.312 --> 00:09:07.062 And, as you see here, 00:09:09.046 --> 00:09:11.510 Niccolo Machiavelli addresses the book 00:09:11.510 --> 00:09:13.357 to Lorenzo The Magnificent 00:09:13.357 --> 00:09:15.607 and here you have no title. 00:09:16.475 --> 00:09:18.975 So, the book is without title. 00:09:20.399 --> 00:09:24.310 The Prince is the title the editors gave the book 00:09:24.310 --> 00:09:26.661 when the book was actually published, 00:09:26.661 --> 00:09:29.447 five years after the death of Machiavelli. 00:09:29.447 --> 00:09:33.447 This is another fascinating detail of this book. 00:09:34.870 --> 00:09:36.239 - [Alan] So, The Prince wasn't actually 00:09:36.239 --> 00:09:37.869 called The Prince 00:09:37.869 --> 00:09:41.073 and there are more surprises, too. 00:09:41.073 --> 00:09:43.041 - Well, the first thing you notice if you pick up The Prince 00:09:43.041 --> 00:09:45.190 is that it's an extremely short book, 00:09:45.190 --> 00:09:47.273 it runs to only 90 pages. 00:09:48.300 --> 00:09:50.038 It's a book really about two things. 00:09:50.038 --> 00:09:51.261 One is how to gain power, 00:09:51.261 --> 00:09:53.349 and that's what the first half of the book is about, 00:09:53.349 --> 00:09:54.822 but the rest of the book 00:09:54.822 --> 00:09:57.441 and the real interest for Machiavelli 00:09:57.441 --> 00:09:58.593 of why he wrote it is 00:09:58.593 --> 00:10:02.154 how do you hold on to power once you've got it? 00:10:02.154 --> 00:10:04.450 - "I find it more fitting to seek the truth of the matter, 00:10:04.450 --> 00:10:06.733 "rather than imaginary conceptions, 00:10:06.733 --> 00:10:08.353 "because how one lives 00:10:08.353 --> 00:10:11.132 "and how one ought to live are so far apart 00:10:11.132 --> 00:10:14.841 "that a ruler who persists in doing what ought to be done 00:10:14.841 --> 00:10:17.706 "will undermine his power." 00:10:17.706 --> 00:10:22.207 - He says, "I'm trying to write something useful, utile, 00:10:22.207 --> 00:10:26.265 "and so what I say in this book departs massively," 00:10:26.265 --> 00:10:27.863 the Italian says massima, 00:10:27.863 --> 00:10:30.549 "it departs massively from what anyone has ever written 00:10:30.549 --> 00:10:31.977 "on this subject." 00:10:31.977 --> 00:10:34.650 So he knows that it's a revolutionary book. 00:10:34.650 --> 00:10:38.543 - The intent of the book was to be a guide, 00:10:38.543 --> 00:10:43.323 a kind of handbook for politically ambitious leaders. 00:10:43.323 --> 00:10:46.658 You can play the game for good or you can play it for ill. 00:10:46.658 --> 00:10:50.825 For Machiavelli, it's more important to play the game well 00:10:52.002 --> 00:10:54.002 than to be morally good. 00:10:55.261 --> 00:10:58.535 - Chapter 18, Of the Need for Princes to Keep Their Word. 00:10:58.535 --> 00:11:00.851 "Everybody knows how commendable it is for a ruler 00:11:00.851 --> 00:11:03.133 "to keep his word and live by integrity 00:11:03.133 --> 00:11:04.862 "rather than by cunning, 00:11:04.862 --> 00:11:07.703 "and yet experience shows us 00:11:07.703 --> 00:11:10.429 "that rulers with little regard for their word 00:11:10.429 --> 00:11:13.354 "have achieved great things, 00:11:13.354 --> 00:11:16.687 "being expert at beguiling men's minds." 00:11:17.673 --> 00:11:19.754 - The first generation who opened this book, 00:11:19.754 --> 00:11:21.609 if they came to chapter 18 and read it, 00:11:21.609 --> 00:11:24.107 they would have been astounded by this. 00:11:24.107 --> 00:11:27.589 In Roman law, there is a maxim which says 00:11:27.589 --> 00:11:29.521 good faith must always be kept. 00:11:29.521 --> 00:11:30.778 You must always keep your promises. 00:11:30.778 --> 00:11:33.144 (speaking in foreign language) 00:11:33.144 --> 00:11:35.175 And that chapter was, I think, 00:11:35.175 --> 00:11:38.902 the one that gave it its most sinister reputation. 00:11:38.902 --> 00:11:41.747 - "A prince must be a fox to spot the snares 00:11:41.747 --> 00:11:44.664 "and a lion to overwhelm the wolves. 00:11:44.664 --> 00:11:46.896 "Those who rely merely upon the lion's strength 00:11:46.896 --> 00:11:48.646 "do not understand this. 00:11:48.646 --> 00:11:52.238 "Therefore, a prudent ruler cannot keep his word, 00:11:52.238 --> 00:11:53.484 "nor should he, 00:11:53.484 --> 00:11:56.186 "when it would be to his disadvantage to do so. 00:11:56.186 --> 00:11:59.008 "If all men were good, this rule would not stand. 00:11:59.008 --> 00:12:01.026 "But as men are wicked 00:12:01.026 --> 00:12:03.126 "and not prepared to keep their word to you, 00:12:03.126 --> 00:12:06.876 "you have no need to keep your word to them." 00:12:07.772 --> 00:12:10.449 - He knew very well the nature of human beings 00:12:10.449 --> 00:12:13.617 and how they behave or not behave. 00:12:13.617 --> 00:12:17.700 So he is a man who is used to being in the world. 00:12:18.919 --> 00:12:22.300 - "Those best able to imitate the fox have succeeded best. 00:12:22.300 --> 00:12:25.495 "But foxiness should be well concealed. 00:12:25.495 --> 00:12:29.127 "One must be a great feigner and dissembler. 00:12:29.127 --> 00:12:31.420 "A deceiver will always find someone 00:12:31.420 --> 00:12:34.084 "willing to be deceived." 00:12:34.084 --> 00:12:35.556 - What's interesting about the book, 00:12:35.556 --> 00:12:38.226 it's a bit like it says, 00:12:38.226 --> 00:12:42.051 "We've inherited an idea about human nature 00:12:42.051 --> 00:12:45.491 "from Christianity and classical humanism." 00:12:45.491 --> 00:12:49.160 And this idea of human nature is encouraging us to be good. 00:12:49.160 --> 00:12:51.308 And what Machiavelli is saying is, 00:12:51.308 --> 00:12:53.565 what about if we thought differently about this? 00:12:53.565 --> 00:12:56.526 What about if we thought that vices and virtues 00:12:56.526 --> 00:13:00.405 were things you could use to survive? 00:13:00.405 --> 00:13:02.603 - "If a ruler who wants always to act honorably 00:13:02.603 --> 00:13:04.977 "is surrounded by many unscrupulous men, 00:13:04.977 --> 00:13:07.689 "his downfall is inevitable. 00:13:07.689 --> 00:13:08.899 "Therefore, it is necessary 00:13:08.899 --> 00:13:11.397 "for a ruler who wishes to maintain his position 00:13:11.397 --> 00:13:14.814 "to learn how to be able not to be good." 00:13:16.569 --> 00:13:19.235 - To any Christian reader of Machiavelli at the time, 00:13:19.235 --> 00:13:20.637 they're going to say, 00:13:20.637 --> 00:13:22.558 but you're forgetting the Day of Judgment. 00:13:22.558 --> 00:13:25.435 On the Day of Judgment, all your sins will be revealed 00:13:25.435 --> 00:13:27.069 and you will very much wish that you hadn't 00:13:27.069 --> 00:13:28.304 behaved like that. 00:13:28.304 --> 00:13:31.796 Now, Machiavelli pays no attention to that. 00:13:31.796 --> 00:13:34.421 That's a huge silence in the book. 00:13:34.421 --> 00:13:37.571 It's just not there as a consideration. 00:13:37.571 --> 00:13:39.824 The book is predicated on the assumption 00:13:39.824 --> 00:13:42.545 that the idea that your sins will find you out 00:13:42.545 --> 00:13:46.712 is a childish superstition, they will not find you out. 00:13:48.491 --> 00:13:50.528 - Machiavelli is saying something very simply, which is, 00:13:50.528 --> 00:13:51.992 these are wonderful pictures, 00:13:51.992 --> 00:13:53.711 but they've got nothing to do with reality. 00:13:53.711 --> 00:13:55.600 It's not as though if you're good, you'll be rewarded, 00:13:55.600 --> 00:13:56.758 it's not a deal. 00:13:56.758 --> 00:13:58.761 Actually, it doesn't matter whether you're good or bad 00:13:58.761 --> 00:14:01.077 in terms of, it doesn't predict anything. 00:14:01.077 --> 00:14:04.246 So what Machiavelli is saying in contemporary language is, 00:14:04.246 --> 00:14:05.913 we need to get real. 00:14:14.295 --> 00:14:16.394 - [Alan] This is Jonathan Powell. 00:14:16.394 --> 00:14:19.476 He used to be Tony Blair's Chief of Staff. 00:14:19.476 --> 00:14:20.878 Now, he's written a memoir 00:14:20.878 --> 00:14:22.994 called The New Machiavelli: 00:14:22.994 --> 00:14:26.894 How To Wield Power In The Modern World. 00:14:26.894 --> 00:14:29.619 - "The choice of advisers is very important for a prince. 00:14:29.619 --> 00:14:31.606 "One can assess their prince's intelligence 00:14:31.606 --> 00:14:35.542 "by looking at the men with whom he surrounds himself." 00:14:35.542 --> 00:14:36.891 - So I'm kind of asking myself 00:14:36.891 --> 00:14:41.366 why you called your book The New Machiavelli? 00:14:41.366 --> 00:14:42.602 I mean, what made you do that? 00:14:42.602 --> 00:14:43.868 Because a lot of people might have thought 00:14:43.868 --> 00:14:45.566 that was a term of abuse. 00:14:45.566 --> 00:14:46.848 - Well, I wanted to write a book 00:14:46.848 --> 00:14:48.492 that was actually useful to people 00:14:48.492 --> 00:14:49.460 who were in government. 00:14:49.460 --> 00:14:51.687 There are an awful lot of books of theory, 00:14:51.687 --> 00:14:53.241 constitutional books, 00:14:53.241 --> 00:14:54.688 most of which are completely useless 00:14:54.688 --> 00:14:56.525 because they describe the way things should be, 00:14:56.525 --> 00:14:58.101 rather than the way things are. 00:14:58.101 --> 00:15:01.388 What's great about Machiavelli is, he writes about reality. 00:15:01.388 --> 00:15:04.770 He busts myths, he cuts through all of that. 00:15:04.770 --> 00:15:08.767 - The word "Machiavellian" was used 358 times 00:15:08.767 --> 00:15:12.991 by the newspapers in the first year of Tony Blair's reign. 00:15:12.991 --> 00:15:15.916 Somewhere in there, there's a connection. 00:15:15.916 --> 00:15:18.272 There are quite a lot of factors about Machiavelli 00:15:18.272 --> 00:15:20.624 which are ones that many politicians would not 00:15:20.624 --> 00:15:22.064 want to own up to. 00:15:22.064 --> 00:15:24.475 For instance, chapter 15, 00:15:24.475 --> 00:15:26.311 "It is necessary for a prince who wishes 00:15:26.311 --> 00:15:28.029 "to maintain his position 00:15:28.029 --> 00:15:31.446 "to learn how to be able not to be good." 00:15:32.406 --> 00:15:34.960 - Machiavelli was saying not that princes 00:15:34.960 --> 00:15:37.035 should go around being evil, 00:15:37.035 --> 00:15:38.026 what he was saying is, 00:15:38.026 --> 00:15:39.995 you have to check your personal morality at the door 00:15:39.995 --> 00:15:41.397 when you become a leader. 00:15:41.397 --> 00:15:44.767 Personal morality is all very well as an individual, 00:15:44.767 --> 00:15:46.090 but if you are thinking about the greater 00:15:46.090 --> 00:15:47.065 good of the community, 00:15:47.065 --> 00:15:48.420 sometimes you'll have to do things 00:15:48.420 --> 00:15:50.218 that are not good as an individual, 00:15:50.218 --> 00:15:52.064 but are good for society as a whole. 00:15:52.064 --> 00:15:55.744 - "A prince must therefore be a fox to spot the snares 00:15:55.744 --> 00:15:58.656 "and a lion to overwhelm the wolves." 00:15:58.656 --> 00:16:00.533 - This is one of Machiavelli's most interesting lessons. 00:16:00.533 --> 00:16:02.343 You must be a lion, a courageous person, 00:16:02.343 --> 00:16:03.434 but you also had to be a fox 00:16:03.434 --> 00:16:06.518 and have the intelligence and the guile to avoid traps. 00:16:06.518 --> 00:16:08.173 There was an example for Tony Blair 00:16:08.173 --> 00:16:10.983 when he was running in the 2005 election. 00:16:10.983 --> 00:16:14.030 Tony Blair decided he had to make a speech on immigration. 00:16:14.030 --> 00:16:15.902 - [Newsreader] Tony Blair said controls on immigration 00:16:15.902 --> 00:16:17.921 had already had a positive effect. 00:16:17.921 --> 00:16:19.491 - When he finished, I said to him, 00:16:19.491 --> 00:16:21.191 I noticed the teleprompter had gone wrong, 00:16:21.191 --> 00:16:22.659 because large parts of the speech, 00:16:22.659 --> 00:16:23.738 you were looking down at your notes 00:16:23.738 --> 00:16:24.723 as opposed to looking at the camera. 00:16:24.723 --> 00:16:25.823 What happened? 00:16:25.823 --> 00:16:27.338 He said, "There was nothing wrong with the teleprompter, 00:16:27.338 --> 00:16:28.478 "just certain bits of the speech 00:16:28.478 --> 00:16:29.870 "I didn't want shown on television, 00:16:29.870 --> 00:16:31.490 "so I made sure I was looking at my notes, 00:16:31.490 --> 00:16:33.868 "so those bits wouldn't be used by television news." 00:16:33.868 --> 00:16:36.053 That was the fox bit. 00:16:36.053 --> 00:16:37.813 - [Alan] Did Tony Blair ever talk about The Prince? 00:16:37.813 --> 00:16:39.598 Did he ever read it, do you think? 00:16:39.598 --> 00:16:40.580 - I've no idea if he read it. 00:16:40.580 --> 00:16:41.819 He certainly never talked about it. 00:16:41.819 --> 00:16:43.438 I think he might be slightly horrified to be thought of 00:16:43.438 --> 00:16:47.605 as a Machiavellian leader, but I mean it as a compliment. 00:16:50.404 --> 00:16:52.205 - [Alan] Robert Greene has also been bringing 00:16:52.205 --> 00:16:54.825 The Prince into the modern world. 00:16:54.825 --> 00:16:56.308 He used to work in Hollywood. 00:16:56.308 --> 00:17:00.475 Now, he writes bestsellers like The 48 Laws Of Power. 00:17:01.974 --> 00:17:04.073 - The traditional way of looking at politics 00:17:04.073 --> 00:17:06.425 is veiled with all of these concepts 00:17:06.425 --> 00:17:08.489 of what's good for the public, 00:17:08.489 --> 00:17:11.118 of politicians' intentions, 00:17:11.118 --> 00:17:13.983 of being altruistic and generous. 00:17:13.983 --> 00:17:17.336 And what Machiavelli did is take all of that away. 00:17:17.336 --> 00:17:19.721 Look at power as it is. 00:17:19.721 --> 00:17:23.117 Watch the moves of the various people on the chessboard. 00:17:23.117 --> 00:17:26.069 So, it's pure strategy and it was absolutely brilliant, 00:17:26.069 --> 00:17:30.656 he's the first person to ever come up with that concept. 00:17:30.656 --> 00:17:32.957 There are different types of political leaders. 00:17:32.957 --> 00:17:37.389 There are the types who come into office with high ideals. 00:17:37.389 --> 00:17:40.633 They want to change things, they want to reform. 00:17:40.633 --> 00:17:42.283 They believe that they're doing something 00:17:42.283 --> 00:17:43.468 for the good of the public 00:17:43.468 --> 00:17:45.592 and then they realize very quickly 00:17:45.592 --> 00:17:48.126 that politics is warfare. 00:17:48.126 --> 00:17:50.119 And they have to adapt to this environment 00:17:50.119 --> 00:17:51.391 and leaders like that, 00:17:51.391 --> 00:17:53.686 perhaps Obama would fit into that category, 00:17:53.686 --> 00:17:56.024 can do very well if they're adaptable. 00:17:56.024 --> 00:17:58.131 Then you have other types like a Bill Clinton, 00:17:58.131 --> 00:17:59.394 perhaps a Tony Blair, 00:17:59.394 --> 00:18:01.840 or if you're Angela Merkel, 00:18:01.840 --> 00:18:04.771 these are more political animals by nature. 00:18:04.771 --> 00:18:07.518 They are very Machiavellian, it's in their DNA. 00:18:07.518 --> 00:18:09.786 They don't need to read The Prince, 00:18:09.786 --> 00:18:12.725 they understand how the laws of power operate. 00:18:12.725 --> 00:18:14.759 So, if you are in a position of power, 00:18:14.759 --> 00:18:16.678 you have to play a game. 00:18:16.678 --> 00:18:18.355 The dynamic doesn't matter, 00:18:18.355 --> 00:18:21.938 whether it's a dictatorship or a democracy. 00:18:24.140 --> 00:18:25.365 - What The Prince is, in a sense, 00:18:25.365 --> 00:18:29.983 is a portrayal of the attributes and qualities 00:18:29.983 --> 00:18:32.291 that you need to take the power that you have 00:18:32.291 --> 00:18:34.711 and develop that power in a way that is most useful to you 00:18:34.711 --> 00:18:36.250 and what you are trying to do. 00:18:36.250 --> 00:18:40.083 Well, that is the case today for Barack Obama, 00:18:41.677 --> 00:18:44.655 today for Angela Merkel, David Cameron, 00:18:44.655 --> 00:18:45.639 and all the rest of them. 00:18:45.639 --> 00:18:48.312 That's partly what they're about, 00:18:48.312 --> 00:18:52.131 because we can be very squeamish about this, if we want, 00:18:52.131 --> 00:18:55.631 but the truth is, power is, it is a force. 00:18:58.935 --> 00:19:01.475 - Money is the McMansion in Sarasota 00:19:01.475 --> 00:19:03.582 that starts falling apart after 10 years. 00:19:03.582 --> 00:19:07.749 Power is the old stone building that stands for centuries. 00:19:09.306 --> 00:19:12.899 I cannot respect someone who doesn't see the difference. 00:19:12.899 --> 00:19:14.992 - [Alan] The allure of power is a big theme 00:19:14.992 --> 00:19:16.942 in drama at the moment. 00:19:16.942 --> 00:19:19.074 In the hit series House of Cards, 00:19:19.074 --> 00:19:22.174 Kevin Spacey plays the Machiavellian senator, 00:19:22.174 --> 00:19:23.507 Frank Underwood. 00:19:25.328 --> 00:19:27.357 It's a remake of the earlier series 00:19:27.357 --> 00:19:30.234 starring Ian Richardson as Francis Urquhart, 00:19:30.234 --> 00:19:33.276 written by Margaret Thatcher's Chief of Staff, 00:19:33.276 --> 00:19:34.443 Michael Dobbs. 00:19:35.725 --> 00:19:37.510 - There's a dramatic thread that runs 00:19:37.510 --> 00:19:39.182 all the way from Machiavelli 00:19:39.182 --> 00:19:41.951 through Richard III through Francis Urquhart 00:19:41.951 --> 00:19:43.893 and Frank Underwood just talking to you, 00:19:43.893 --> 00:19:46.705 letting you in on the secrets of power. 00:19:46.705 --> 00:19:50.293 - I think you could achieve anything you wanted. 00:19:50.293 --> 00:19:53.445 - You might think that, Mattie, 00:19:53.445 --> 00:19:57.517 I'm afraid I couldn't possibly comment. 00:19:57.517 --> 00:20:00.302 - And you think that this is wonderful, 00:20:00.302 --> 00:20:01.281 you're being trusted, 00:20:01.281 --> 00:20:04.884 you're being made a co-conspirator. 00:20:04.884 --> 00:20:06.634 - I'm terribly sorry. 00:20:08.744 --> 00:20:10.494 - Thank you, Francis. 00:20:11.687 --> 00:20:13.187 You're a good man. 00:20:19.346 --> 00:20:22.441 - The Tory Party in the 1987-88 period when 00:20:22.441 --> 00:20:24.661 just before Margaret Thatcher was pushed out, 00:20:24.661 --> 00:20:26.234 which was when I wrote House of Cards, 00:20:26.234 --> 00:20:28.501 it was like Florence under the Borgias. 00:20:28.501 --> 00:20:30.918 I mean, it was full of conspiracy in dark corners 00:20:30.918 --> 00:20:32.811 and people whispering wicked things. 00:20:32.811 --> 00:20:35.380 So it wasn't so much that 00:20:35.380 --> 00:20:38.095 I must write something which is Machiavellian. 00:20:38.095 --> 00:20:41.480 I had, I think, lived though a time 00:20:41.480 --> 00:20:43.347 and was living though a time 00:20:43.347 --> 00:20:46.774 which I think Machiavelli himself would have recognized. 00:20:46.774 --> 00:20:49.388 I think that this particular book of mine 00:20:49.388 --> 00:20:50.840 goes back to my university days, 00:20:50.840 --> 00:20:52.436 and it's stayed with me ever since. 00:20:52.436 --> 00:20:55.494 It's a wonderful book for dipping into. 00:20:55.494 --> 00:20:57.860 He's actually saying, this is the way you do it. 00:20:57.860 --> 00:20:59.491 And you could be the most principled 00:20:59.491 --> 00:21:01.746 politician on the earth, 00:21:01.746 --> 00:21:04.245 but unless you get your fingers on power 00:21:04.245 --> 00:21:06.645 and know how to pull the levers, 00:21:06.645 --> 00:21:08.728 you're wasting your time. 00:21:09.823 --> 00:21:12.215 - [Alan] For centuries, The Prince has been inspiring 00:21:12.215 --> 00:21:14.651 the powerful and the tyrannical. 00:21:14.651 --> 00:21:15.944 Napoleon read it. 00:21:15.944 --> 00:21:17.390 So did Stalin. 00:21:17.390 --> 00:21:19.380 He made notes in the margin. 00:21:19.380 --> 00:21:22.484 Mussolini even did his dissertation on it. 00:21:22.484 --> 00:21:24.634 It's always been the book of choice 00:21:24.634 --> 00:21:26.634 for political operators. 00:21:27.543 --> 00:21:29.578 - It's true that The Prince was the favorite 00:21:29.578 --> 00:21:31.078 bedside reading of 00:21:32.410 --> 00:21:34.577 Henry Kissinger and Nixon. 00:21:35.640 --> 00:21:37.320 And for a good reason, 00:21:37.320 --> 00:21:40.428 because they were hard-nosed political realists. 00:21:40.428 --> 00:21:42.685 And part of the fascination of The Prince 00:21:42.685 --> 00:21:45.983 is that it shows us what the world looks like 00:21:45.983 --> 00:21:48.671 when the ethical dimensions have been 00:21:48.671 --> 00:21:50.904 removed from the picture. 00:21:50.904 --> 00:21:54.214 And I think for someone like Henry Kissinger or Nixon, 00:21:54.214 --> 00:21:58.103 there was a certain pleasure in reading a book 00:21:58.103 --> 00:22:01.847 that looked at the world the same way they did 00:22:01.847 --> 00:22:05.014 and the same way many other people do. 00:22:05.983 --> 00:22:09.084 - [Alan] Machiavelli is perhaps most famous for the phrase 00:22:09.084 --> 00:22:11.663 "the end justifies the means." 00:22:11.663 --> 00:22:13.958 Actually, he never said it. 00:22:13.958 --> 00:22:16.244 But he may as well have done. 00:22:16.244 --> 00:22:18.287 - The exact thought that's there in The Prince is, 00:22:18.287 --> 00:22:22.190 "the action is accused and the outcome excuses it." 00:22:22.190 --> 00:22:24.348 So in the Italian, it's very beautiful. 00:22:24.348 --> 00:22:26.532 It's accusata and scusata. 00:22:26.532 --> 00:22:28.991 It accuses you, but it excuses you. 00:22:28.991 --> 00:22:33.047 So you are excused if the motivation for the action 00:22:33.047 --> 00:22:34.787 was the good of the state. 00:22:34.787 --> 00:22:36.515 - We have to do justice to Machiavelli 00:22:36.515 --> 00:22:39.132 because it's not a matter of personal career 00:22:39.132 --> 00:22:41.231 or for just his own sake, 00:22:41.231 --> 00:22:44.243 it's also for a political purpose. 00:22:44.243 --> 00:22:47.005 He was really convinced that 00:22:47.005 --> 00:22:49.391 the stability of government in Florence 00:22:49.391 --> 00:22:52.308 was the most important thing to do. 00:22:53.641 --> 00:22:56.308 For the sake of the common good, 00:22:57.662 --> 00:23:00.815 you have to act in a bad manner. 00:23:00.815 --> 00:23:02.065 Just sometimes. 00:23:04.953 --> 00:23:07.936 - But if you have to do something which is really terrible, 00:23:07.936 --> 00:23:10.961 then you have to recognize that it's really terrible. 00:23:10.961 --> 00:23:13.037 But you still have to do it. 00:23:13.037 --> 00:23:16.063 - I want them dead, mother and child both. 00:23:16.063 --> 00:23:18.190 And that fool Viserys as well. 00:23:18.190 --> 00:23:19.886 Is that plain enough for you? 00:23:19.886 --> 00:23:21.290 I want them both dead. 00:23:21.290 --> 00:23:23.345 - You'll dishonor yourself for ever if you do this. 00:23:23.345 --> 00:23:24.790 - Honor? 00:23:24.790 --> 00:23:27.254 I've got seven kingdoms to rule! 00:23:27.254 --> 00:23:29.994 - It's tough to be a ruler, 00:23:29.994 --> 00:23:33.244 whether in Machiavelli's time or today. 00:23:35.274 --> 00:23:39.525 - George R.R. Martin understands the burden of command. 00:23:39.525 --> 00:23:40.723 This is your chair. 00:23:40.723 --> 00:23:42.016 This is your throne. 00:23:42.016 --> 00:23:43.099 - [George] My throne? 00:23:43.099 --> 00:23:44.447 - [Alan] He's the best-selling author 00:23:44.447 --> 00:23:46.967 behind the TV series Game of Thrones, 00:23:46.967 --> 00:23:50.800 set in an imaginary world of warring kingdoms. 00:23:52.322 --> 00:23:55.430 - Game of Thrones is a fantasy, of course. 00:23:55.430 --> 00:23:59.597 I think a lot of the fantasy that had gone before me 00:24:01.568 --> 00:24:03.581 has this unspoken assumption 00:24:03.581 --> 00:24:06.176 that if you are a good man, 00:24:06.176 --> 00:24:09.824 you will be a good king or a good prince. 00:24:09.824 --> 00:24:11.888 But if you look at the real world, 00:24:11.888 --> 00:24:13.133 if you look at real history, 00:24:13.133 --> 00:24:14.683 or if you look at contemporary times, 00:24:14.683 --> 00:24:19.280 it's not enough just to be a good guy, you know. 00:24:19.280 --> 00:24:21.727 I read The Prince back in college, 00:24:21.727 --> 00:24:23.625 which was, of course, many years ago. 00:24:23.625 --> 00:24:28.019 And obviously, I absorbed quite a few of its lessons. 00:24:28.019 --> 00:24:30.145 - It is a terrible thing we must consider, 00:24:30.145 --> 00:24:33.514 a vile thing, yet we who presume to rule 00:24:33.514 --> 00:24:35.485 must sometimes do vile things 00:24:35.485 --> 00:24:37.978 for the good of the realm. 00:24:37.978 --> 00:24:39.228 - It's not enough just to say 00:24:39.228 --> 00:24:41.424 I will be good and wise 00:24:41.424 --> 00:24:43.332 and do the right thing. 00:24:43.332 --> 00:24:44.916 What is the right thing? 00:24:44.916 --> 00:24:46.583 That's the question. 00:24:47.772 --> 00:24:49.576 - [Alan] Don't Be Evil. 00:24:49.576 --> 00:24:52.520 That's what Google say is the right thing. 00:24:52.520 --> 00:24:54.757 But isn't it precisely these user-friendly 00:24:54.757 --> 00:24:56.530 global corporations 00:24:56.530 --> 00:24:59.973 that are the modern day Machiavellians? 00:24:59.973 --> 00:25:03.552 - Corporatism presents a much more pleasant 00:25:03.552 --> 00:25:05.415 face to the world, 00:25:05.415 --> 00:25:08.008 but in that sense it may be even more Machiavellian, 00:25:08.008 --> 00:25:10.925 because it's smiling at us. 00:25:10.925 --> 00:25:12.030 Is it benign? 00:25:12.030 --> 00:25:12.867 I don't know. 00:25:12.867 --> 00:25:13.700 Is it benign? 00:25:13.700 --> 00:25:16.131 But it's certainly subtle. 00:25:16.131 --> 00:25:19.400 - The motto of Google is don't be evil. 00:25:19.400 --> 00:25:22.356 But don't look at the words, look at their actions. 00:25:22.356 --> 00:25:24.395 The data they are gathering on individuals, 00:25:24.395 --> 00:25:26.827 the global presence they have. 00:25:26.827 --> 00:25:30.345 But in order to exercise power in the world, 00:25:30.345 --> 00:25:34.855 you have to give the appearance of being nice and good. 00:25:34.855 --> 00:25:37.642 If you look to be too ambitious for power, 00:25:37.642 --> 00:25:39.200 people are gonna see that, 00:25:39.200 --> 00:25:40.522 they're not gonna to like it. 00:25:40.522 --> 00:25:42.335 The public wants to feel 00:25:42.335 --> 00:25:45.330 that you are motivated by some higher aspiration. 00:25:45.330 --> 00:25:47.725 So you have to manage appearances. 00:25:47.725 --> 00:25:51.840 And all of these companies play the game like that. 00:25:51.840 --> 00:25:53.507 - The mission of the company is to make the world 00:25:53.507 --> 00:25:54.862 more open and connected. 00:25:54.862 --> 00:25:56.459 Everyone's gonna have a much better experience 00:25:56.459 --> 00:26:00.576 when they're doing different things with their friends. 00:26:00.576 --> 00:26:01.570 - "When ones sees him, 00:26:01.570 --> 00:26:03.799 "a ruler must be a paragon of mercy, 00:26:03.799 --> 00:26:07.952 "loyalty, humanness, integrity and scrupulousness. 00:26:07.952 --> 00:26:09.936 "Indeed, there is nothing more important 00:26:09.936 --> 00:26:12.750 "than appearing to have this last quality. 00:26:12.750 --> 00:26:14.674 "For the common people are impressed 00:26:14.674 --> 00:26:17.091 "by appearances and results." 00:26:19.852 --> 00:26:22.268 - Machiavelli is the first person ever 00:26:22.268 --> 00:26:24.694 to analyze that phenomenon. 00:26:24.694 --> 00:26:26.325 I think we're living in a period now 00:26:26.325 --> 00:26:29.256 that's remarkably similar to what Machiavelli 00:26:29.256 --> 00:26:30.839 was living through. 00:26:31.834 --> 00:26:34.327 - [Alan] And it's not just with global tech companies 00:26:34.327 --> 00:26:36.391 that appearances matter. 00:26:36.391 --> 00:26:38.565 Machiavelli's rule applies everywhere, 00:26:38.565 --> 00:26:42.852 not least, as Robert Greene found out, in Hollywood. 00:26:42.852 --> 00:26:47.110 - If you go into a meeting and you give off confidence, 00:26:47.110 --> 00:26:49.209 like you could pull this off, 00:26:49.209 --> 00:26:51.730 like you can see it all the way to the end, 00:26:51.730 --> 00:26:53.221 that you know what you're doing, 00:26:53.221 --> 00:26:54.946 you're gonna go a lot further 00:26:54.946 --> 00:26:57.086 than somebody who might have a brilliant idea, 00:26:57.086 --> 00:26:58.943 but doesn't know how to pitch it as well. 00:26:58.943 --> 00:27:00.622 I know, for example, 00:27:00.622 --> 00:27:03.348 that I made that mistake recently in a meeting, 00:27:03.348 --> 00:27:07.465 that we didn't exude that insane sense of confidence 00:27:07.465 --> 00:27:10.246 that we were gonna get this project done. 00:27:10.246 --> 00:27:13.746 So it's a realm of appearances, basically. 00:27:16.236 --> 00:27:17.592 - [Alan] But for Machiavelli, 00:27:17.592 --> 00:27:20.386 no one who wants to succeed in the game of power 00:27:20.386 --> 00:27:22.553 can escape one key factor. 00:27:23.410 --> 00:27:24.525 Luck. 00:27:24.525 --> 00:27:28.328 Fortuna, he calls it, that capricious turn of the wheel 00:27:28.328 --> 00:27:31.675 by which the ambitious rise and fall, 00:27:31.675 --> 00:27:34.592 and never more so than in politics. 00:27:35.541 --> 00:27:37.640 - What does it mean to be able to make your fortune? 00:27:37.640 --> 00:27:40.487 It is to have the qualities that enable you 00:27:40.487 --> 00:27:41.904 to dominate luck. 00:27:43.184 --> 00:27:45.510 So wow can you hope to dominate luck? 00:27:45.510 --> 00:27:47.111 Well, in the end, you can't. 00:27:47.111 --> 00:27:49.836 Fortune is always more powerful than reason. 00:27:49.836 --> 00:27:52.765 But there are qualities that enable you, 00:27:52.765 --> 00:27:57.229 as the excellent American phrase puts it, to get lucky. 00:27:57.229 --> 00:27:58.956 But, of course, you could, as a politician, 00:27:58.956 --> 00:28:02.089 simply have an amazing stroke of luck 00:28:02.089 --> 00:28:03.471 from which everything follows. 00:28:03.471 --> 00:28:06.410 And Tony Blair would certainly be an example of that. 00:28:06.410 --> 00:28:08.412 - [Man] The body of John Smith was carried 00:28:08.412 --> 00:28:09.344 into the parish... 00:28:09.344 --> 00:28:11.913 - John Smith, who was Leader of the Opposition, 00:28:11.913 --> 00:28:15.080 dies very suddenly in his mid-fifties. 00:28:16.188 --> 00:28:20.829 So Blair becomes Leader of the Opposition at the age of 41, 00:28:20.829 --> 00:28:23.473 when he had no expectation of the leader 00:28:23.473 --> 00:28:24.544 dying in the mid-fifties. 00:28:24.544 --> 00:28:26.340 People don't die in their mid-fifties. 00:28:26.340 --> 00:28:28.091 But John Smith did. 00:28:28.091 --> 00:28:30.825 - This morning, I'm announcing my candidature 00:28:30.825 --> 00:28:35.124 for the position of Leader of the Labour Party. 00:28:35.124 --> 00:28:37.452 - Now there's no successful politician 00:28:37.452 --> 00:28:40.134 who hasn't, at some point, had pure good luck. 00:28:40.134 --> 00:28:43.648 And Tony Blair's pure good luck, terrible thing to say, 00:28:43.648 --> 00:28:44.879 but was the death of John Smith. 00:28:44.879 --> 00:28:46.403 Surely he would have won that election, 00:28:46.403 --> 00:28:47.770 so he would have been Prime Minister. 00:28:47.770 --> 00:28:49.824 But instead, it was Blair. 00:28:49.824 --> 00:28:52.028 - A new dawn has broken, has it not? 00:28:52.028 --> 00:28:53.413 (crowd cheering) 00:28:53.413 --> 00:28:56.476 - He had the Fortuna, he had the luck, and he grabbed it. 00:28:56.476 --> 00:28:58.307 He had the opportunity to become Leader of the Labour Party 00:28:58.307 --> 00:29:00.528 when John Smith died, and he grabbed it. 00:29:00.528 --> 00:29:01.998 And he made something of it. 00:29:01.998 --> 00:29:04.847 So I think he was a classically Machiavellian leader, 00:29:04.847 --> 00:29:06.847 from that point of view. 00:29:10.393 --> 00:29:14.954 - [Alan] For Machiavelli, the flip side of Fortuna is Virtu. 00:29:14.954 --> 00:29:16.933 He doesn't mean virtue, of course, 00:29:16.933 --> 00:29:19.433 he means a kind of virtuosity. 00:29:20.416 --> 00:29:23.421 - In Latin, the word for a man is vir, 00:29:23.421 --> 00:29:25.811 the source of our word virile. 00:29:25.811 --> 00:29:27.790 It's this principle of manliness, 00:29:27.790 --> 00:29:30.596 of courage, of prudence, 00:29:30.596 --> 00:29:33.170 of knowing how to master fortune. 00:29:33.170 --> 00:29:36.159 So that's what virtue is, because if you can master fortune, 00:29:36.159 --> 00:29:40.326 you can maintain your state and thereby gain glory. 00:29:42.376 --> 00:29:44.126 - "This raises the question of whether it is better 00:29:44.126 --> 00:29:46.252 "to be loved than feared. 00:29:46.252 --> 00:29:48.976 "My reply is that one would like to be both, 00:29:48.976 --> 00:29:52.693 "but as it is difficult to combine love and fear, 00:29:52.693 --> 00:29:55.193 "it is far safer to be feared, 00:29:56.916 --> 00:29:58.243 "because it can be said of men 00:29:58.243 --> 00:30:03.124 "that they're ungrateful, fickle liars and deceivers. 00:30:03.124 --> 00:30:07.522 "They shun danger and are greedy for profit." 00:30:07.522 --> 00:30:09.144 - He recommends fear over love. 00:30:09.144 --> 00:30:12.515 Of course, he says it's better to be both, 00:30:12.515 --> 00:30:14.197 but if you have to choose between the two, 00:30:14.197 --> 00:30:16.286 it's better to be feared. 00:30:16.286 --> 00:30:18.108 - "The bond of love is one that men break 00:30:18.108 --> 00:30:20.468 "when it is to their advantage to do so, 00:30:20.468 --> 00:30:24.323 "but fear is strengthened by the dread of punishment, 00:30:24.323 --> 00:30:27.249 "which is always effective." 00:30:27.249 --> 00:30:29.706 - Fear is something that you can rely on 00:30:29.706 --> 00:30:33.013 as a very stable sort of emotional foundation 00:30:33.013 --> 00:30:34.884 to build your power on. 00:30:34.884 --> 00:30:37.591 Machiavelli was all about power, 00:30:37.591 --> 00:30:40.091 of the Prince or of the state. 00:30:46.015 --> 00:30:48.087 - This is a remarkable moment in The Prince 00:30:48.087 --> 00:30:49.224 because it's the only moment 00:30:49.224 --> 00:30:52.152 when he really generalizes about human nature. 00:30:52.152 --> 00:30:56.168 He says that most people are fickle, you can't trust them. 00:30:56.168 --> 00:30:58.667 They are going to do everything 00:30:58.667 --> 00:31:00.156 that is in their own interest 00:31:00.156 --> 00:31:01.835 and not in your interest. 00:31:01.835 --> 00:31:04.079 So what would be the point of trying to 00:31:04.079 --> 00:31:06.570 bind them to you by affection? 00:31:06.570 --> 00:31:08.264 They'll simply sell you down the river. 00:31:08.264 --> 00:31:11.181 You've got to make them frightened. 00:31:13.290 --> 00:31:15.066 - "If one has to choose between them, 00:31:15.066 --> 00:31:18.645 "it is far safer to be feared than loved." 00:31:18.645 --> 00:31:19.901 - Very true of politicians now. 00:31:19.901 --> 00:31:21.197 If you think about politicians, 00:31:21.197 --> 00:31:23.271 you can be absolutely beloved of your party. 00:31:23.271 --> 00:31:25.522 Neil Kinnock was beloved of the Labour Party. 00:31:25.522 --> 00:31:27.198 Every time he went through a Prime Minister's question 00:31:27.198 --> 00:31:29.070 or was bashed to pieces by Mrs. Thatcher, 00:31:29.070 --> 00:31:31.604 the whole Labour Party suffered with him. 00:31:31.604 --> 00:31:33.048 But he could never be elected because 00:31:33.048 --> 00:31:35.069 he didn't have that aspect of fear. 00:31:35.069 --> 00:31:37.496 Mrs. Thatcher was never much liked by her troops, 00:31:37.496 --> 00:31:39.292 she was feared and respected. 00:31:39.292 --> 00:31:41.799 So she was someone who was feared rather than loved. 00:31:41.799 --> 00:31:43.459 Machiavelli says the point is 00:31:43.459 --> 00:31:45.988 that being loved is a reciprocal relationship. 00:31:45.988 --> 00:31:47.415 The person can stop loving you, 00:31:47.415 --> 00:31:49.262 whereas fear is a one-way thing. 00:31:49.262 --> 00:31:50.377 They can't stop fearing you 00:31:50.377 --> 00:31:52.840 as long as you have the means to make them fear. 00:31:52.840 --> 00:31:55.215 - Through it all, the fear point 00:31:55.215 --> 00:31:56.811 is really, really important. 00:31:56.811 --> 00:32:00.695 When the leader goes into a gathering, 00:32:00.695 --> 00:32:03.073 there has to be a sense that that person 00:32:03.073 --> 00:32:07.278 is the main event in that room at that time. 00:32:07.278 --> 00:32:09.481 Now they can emanate all sorts of charm 00:32:09.481 --> 00:32:12.162 and niceness and all the rest of it, 00:32:12.162 --> 00:32:14.224 but, you know, look at what happens 00:32:14.224 --> 00:32:16.383 within our political system 00:32:16.383 --> 00:32:19.538 in the run-up to a re-shuffle. 00:32:19.538 --> 00:32:22.732 I can remember the very first time he did a re-shuffle. 00:32:22.732 --> 00:32:24.413 I mean, he wasn't quite physically sick, 00:32:24.413 --> 00:32:25.815 but he wasn't far off it. 00:32:25.815 --> 00:32:27.732 He absolutely hated it. 00:32:28.585 --> 00:32:31.920 And he definitely got tougher as time went on. 00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:34.960 - Out went Charles Clarke, after so many bad headlines... 00:32:34.960 --> 00:32:37.538 - Come the last re-shuffle that I was, 00:32:37.538 --> 00:32:39.697 as it were, directly involved in, 00:32:39.697 --> 00:32:41.655 once he'd done the big beasts, 00:32:41.655 --> 00:32:43.095 and done them all face-to-face, 00:32:43.095 --> 00:32:46.212 he kind of had a list of people that he did by phone. 00:32:46.212 --> 00:32:49.379 And was pretty swift about it as well. 00:32:51.611 --> 00:32:53.881 Look, you've probably heard I'm doing a re-shuffle 00:32:53.881 --> 00:32:56.208 and I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask for your job 00:32:56.208 --> 00:32:58.140 because we need to make some changes. 00:32:58.140 --> 00:33:00.390 And um, well, there we are. 00:33:01.381 --> 00:33:03.973 - [Alan] Is it useful that they feel slightly fearful? 00:33:03.973 --> 00:33:06.265 - I think if leaders are being really, 00:33:06.265 --> 00:33:07.293 really honest about it, 00:33:07.293 --> 00:33:09.931 I think that is quite useful at times. 00:33:09.931 --> 00:33:13.473 - The ruler needs to be able to intimidate people, 00:33:13.473 --> 00:33:15.118 for lack of a better word, 00:33:15.118 --> 00:33:17.672 needs to be able, well, in extreme cases 00:33:17.672 --> 00:33:21.303 like Renaissance Italy, to execute his enemies. 00:33:21.303 --> 00:33:25.411 In modern times, it would be more to fire people. 00:33:25.411 --> 00:33:26.490 - [Alan] For Machiavelli, 00:33:26.490 --> 00:33:29.757 not even the most loyal servant should be spared. 00:33:29.757 --> 00:33:32.465 If you have to get rid of them to maintain power, 00:33:32.465 --> 00:33:33.965 then they must go. 00:33:35.296 --> 00:33:38.193 - Better to be feared than loved. 00:33:38.193 --> 00:33:40.738 I would say that to be feared 00:33:40.738 --> 00:33:43.650 is far better than to be loved. 00:33:43.650 --> 00:33:46.889 There has to be, between an employer and employee, 00:33:46.889 --> 00:33:49.342 a tiny little bit of fear. 00:33:49.342 --> 00:33:51.103 But I certainly don't need to be loved 00:33:51.103 --> 00:33:53.020 by anybody in business. 00:33:54.393 --> 00:33:56.215 - [Man] These are the Dragons. 00:33:56.215 --> 00:33:57.799 Five of Britain's wealthiest 00:33:57.799 --> 00:34:01.004 and most enterprising business leaders. 00:34:01.004 --> 00:34:02.444 - [Alan] Multimillionaire businesswoman 00:34:02.444 --> 00:34:04.653 and former Dragon Hilary Devey 00:34:04.653 --> 00:34:07.520 first read The Prince when she was at school. 00:34:07.520 --> 00:34:11.054 16th century political analysis may have felt like a chore 00:34:11.054 --> 00:34:14.059 but it's certainly left its mark. 00:34:14.059 --> 00:34:15.641 - Let's face it, for a 15-year-old, 00:34:15.641 --> 00:34:17.498 even for a 50-year-old, 00:34:17.498 --> 00:34:20.668 it's heavy going, it's a hard read. 00:34:20.668 --> 00:34:23.085 Because it's very thought-provoking, 00:34:23.085 --> 00:34:25.902 which is what it's meant to be. 00:34:25.902 --> 00:34:28.409 I think I can bring a lot to the party. 00:34:28.409 --> 00:34:32.058 I've a lot of access into major retailers. 00:34:32.058 --> 00:34:34.891 So I'll offer you the full 70,000. 00:34:35.764 --> 00:34:37.598 But I'd like 20%. 00:34:40.398 --> 00:34:42.245 If you actually watch Dragons' Den, 00:34:42.245 --> 00:34:46.382 it couldn't be more Machiavellian if it tried. 00:34:46.382 --> 00:34:48.916 And if you look at each one of the Dragons, 00:34:48.916 --> 00:34:51.293 every single one of them has something 00:34:51.293 --> 00:34:53.376 Machiavellian about them. 00:34:54.261 --> 00:34:56.297 - I'll offer you 70,000 pound 00:34:56.297 --> 00:34:59.057 for 10% of the company. 00:34:59.057 --> 00:35:02.777 - I simply couldn't believe how Machiavellian they were. 00:35:02.777 --> 00:35:04.423 And it took me a little while, 00:35:04.423 --> 00:35:06.365 perhaps a month, six weeks, 00:35:06.365 --> 00:35:09.605 to finally understand what the strategy, 00:35:09.605 --> 00:35:11.326 what the game plan was. 00:35:11.326 --> 00:35:13.120 And once I did, of course, 00:35:13.120 --> 00:35:16.214 I joined in and I became one of them. 00:35:16.214 --> 00:35:18.606 - [Man] Only Hilary Devey remains. 00:35:18.606 --> 00:35:23.335 Will she see an opportunity where her rivals have not? 00:35:23.335 --> 00:35:27.017 - If I was to offer you the 50,000 pound 00:35:27.017 --> 00:35:30.005 for 95% of your company, 00:35:30.005 --> 00:35:31.588 what would you say? 00:35:32.590 --> 00:35:34.244 I think it is an important book. 00:35:34.244 --> 00:35:36.464 And I think his principles are the same 00:35:36.464 --> 00:35:38.181 principles as mine, in a way, 00:35:38.181 --> 00:35:42.849 where I say the only difference between me and Machiavelli 00:35:42.849 --> 00:35:45.262 is that I make a commercial decision. 00:35:45.262 --> 00:35:46.869 And I will take whatever amount of 00:35:46.869 --> 00:35:50.108 compassion is required out of that commercial decision. 00:35:50.108 --> 00:35:52.895 But what I will then do is put compassion back in. 00:35:52.895 --> 00:35:56.624 So I'm having to do this because XYZ, 00:35:56.624 --> 00:35:58.541 now how can I help you? 00:36:01.519 --> 00:36:02.947 - Chapter 19. 00:36:02.947 --> 00:36:05.707 How to avoid contempt and hatred. 00:36:05.707 --> 00:36:08.728 "Princes must delegate difficult tasks to others 00:36:08.728 --> 00:36:12.418 "and keep popular ones for themselves." 00:36:12.418 --> 00:36:14.937 - The Prince must never be hated. 00:36:14.937 --> 00:36:17.506 If you're hated then you'll lose your state 00:36:17.506 --> 00:36:19.220 because there will be some good reason 00:36:19.220 --> 00:36:21.485 why the people hate you and they wont tolerate it. 00:36:21.485 --> 00:36:24.750 Now how can you avoid being hated 00:36:24.750 --> 00:36:26.814 if terrible things have to be done? 00:36:26.814 --> 00:36:29.853 Well one of Machiavelli's pieces of advice is to say 00:36:29.853 --> 00:36:32.757 you must appoint a deputy and you must get him 00:36:32.757 --> 00:36:34.507 to do the dirty work. 00:36:35.791 --> 00:36:37.114 - [Alan] To make his point, 00:36:37.114 --> 00:36:40.856 Machiavelli tells a story about Cesare Borgia. 00:36:40.856 --> 00:36:44.168 We think of Borgia as a blood-thirsty monster. 00:36:44.168 --> 00:36:46.668 To Machiavelli, he was a hero. 00:36:48.250 --> 00:36:52.592 The story begins in Cesena in the Romagna district of Italy. 00:36:52.592 --> 00:36:54.904 Borgia wants to take over the area 00:36:54.904 --> 00:36:58.518 so he sends in his minister Romero d'Orco, 00:36:58.518 --> 00:37:01.268 a man with a ruthless reputation. 00:37:02.924 --> 00:37:05.601 - Borgia sends him in to Romagna to pacify it. 00:37:05.601 --> 00:37:07.913 He does so by means of unspeakable cruelty 00:37:07.913 --> 00:37:10.746 and there is a threat of a rising. 00:37:13.016 --> 00:37:14.974 - Borgia was aware that d'Orco had created 00:37:14.974 --> 00:37:16.342 hatred among the people 00:37:16.342 --> 00:37:18.284 and in order to win them over, 00:37:18.284 --> 00:37:19.956 he decided to make it clear that 00:37:19.956 --> 00:37:21.338 if there had been any cruelty 00:37:21.338 --> 00:37:24.745 it had been triggered by d'Orco and not him. 00:37:24.745 --> 00:37:25.970 - And so what happens is, 00:37:25.970 --> 00:37:29.011 Machiavelli says, in wonderfully level piece of prose, 00:37:29.011 --> 00:37:33.468 he says that one morning Romero d'Orco was found 00:37:33.468 --> 00:37:36.635 in the square of Cesena in two pieces. 00:37:37.632 --> 00:37:40.465 (dramatic music) 00:37:41.819 --> 00:37:43.945 - He had d'Orco placed in two pieces 00:37:43.945 --> 00:37:48.706 with a block of wood and blood-stained knife by his side. 00:37:48.706 --> 00:37:50.710 This terrible spectacle left the people 00:37:50.710 --> 00:37:53.127 both satisfied and stupefied. 00:37:56.527 --> 00:37:59.974 - I mean, they thought, wow, well he can do anything. 00:37:59.974 --> 00:38:02.231 The hated figure was gone, 00:38:02.231 --> 00:38:04.701 Borgia was in no way to blame. 00:38:04.701 --> 00:38:08.868 So always put a second in command to do your dirty work. 00:38:12.558 --> 00:38:15.664 - Putting that dismembered body on a block, what is that? 00:38:15.664 --> 00:38:18.505 It's not only just saying that I executed that man, 00:38:18.505 --> 00:38:21.820 but it's almost like a ritual murder, almost mafia-like. 00:38:21.820 --> 00:38:26.277 And it's there to inspire awe and respect and admiration 00:38:26.277 --> 00:38:28.083 for the man who did it. 00:38:28.083 --> 00:38:30.856 To see a leader who's not only killed him, 00:38:30.856 --> 00:38:33.281 but put him there so everyone could see as a lesson. 00:38:33.281 --> 00:38:37.364 My God, it has a triple effect on public opinion. 00:38:41.281 --> 00:38:42.896 Political leaders have been using 00:38:42.896 --> 00:38:45.472 this strategy for centuries 00:38:45.472 --> 00:38:47.011 without the blood. 00:38:47.011 --> 00:38:51.777 So FDR had his henchmen, Clinton had his henchmen. 00:38:51.777 --> 00:38:53.743 Tony Blair had it, 00:38:53.743 --> 00:38:56.216 Cameron has Osborne. 00:38:56.216 --> 00:38:57.811 On and on and on and on. 00:38:57.811 --> 00:38:59.754 You've got somebody there to do the dirty work, 00:38:59.754 --> 00:39:01.713 and then you can distance yourself from them. 00:39:01.713 --> 00:39:05.047 So the sort of violent example is actually 00:39:05.047 --> 00:39:08.630 something that goes on every day around us. 00:39:09.823 --> 00:39:13.947 - [Alan] Maybe that's why The Prince feels so contemporary. 00:39:13.947 --> 00:39:16.061 The rules of power, it seems, 00:39:16.061 --> 00:39:20.321 are just as applicable today as they were 500 years ago. 00:39:20.321 --> 00:39:22.446 Originally a manual for the Medici, 00:39:22.446 --> 00:39:24.092 The Prince could just as easily 00:39:24.092 --> 00:39:27.078 be a modern self-help book. 00:39:27.078 --> 00:39:28.999 - We tend to think of power only in terms 00:39:28.999 --> 00:39:31.159 of politics or business, 00:39:31.159 --> 00:39:33.487 but really there's the power to control 00:39:33.487 --> 00:39:35.620 your destiny, your life, 00:39:35.620 --> 00:39:37.542 how you are in your office. 00:39:37.542 --> 00:39:40.339 If you have no control over your career, 00:39:40.339 --> 00:39:42.569 if you have no influence over your colleagues 00:39:42.569 --> 00:39:44.046 or peers or your boss, 00:39:44.046 --> 00:39:46.651 it's the most miserable feeling in the world. 00:39:46.651 --> 00:39:50.162 And nobody wants that kind of position in life. 00:39:50.162 --> 00:39:53.741 So everybody is scrambling to get more power, 00:39:53.741 --> 00:39:57.408 more control, over their individual destiny. 00:39:59.000 --> 00:40:02.333 - I taught college once at a tiny little 00:40:04.302 --> 00:40:07.591 Catholic girls' college in Dubuque, Iowa. 00:40:07.591 --> 00:40:08.424 And... 00:40:10.554 --> 00:40:13.320 The power struggles on an academic level 00:40:13.320 --> 00:40:15.030 at this little thing were as vicious 00:40:15.030 --> 00:40:17.250 as anything in medieval Florence of 00:40:17.250 --> 00:40:19.889 who will get to be department chairman 00:40:19.889 --> 00:40:22.675 and wield that vast power. 00:40:22.675 --> 00:40:26.489 It's all in the context of what you're in. 00:40:26.489 --> 00:40:29.537 - It's sort of like once you enter the boxing ring, 00:40:29.537 --> 00:40:32.323 you have to fight, you can't sit there and just lie down. 00:40:32.323 --> 00:40:33.715 You're gonna get beaten up. 00:40:33.715 --> 00:40:35.911 So once you're there, you have to figure out a strategy. 00:40:35.911 --> 00:40:37.217 If you don't want to get hit, 00:40:37.217 --> 00:40:40.054 you have to at least figure out how to avoid getting hit. 00:40:40.054 --> 00:40:42.471 So there's no way to opt out. 00:40:44.079 --> 00:40:46.113 But a lot of people are uncomfortable with it 00:40:46.113 --> 00:40:49.388 and they play a kind of a negative game of power. 00:40:49.388 --> 00:40:52.830 They say that they find power ugly and disgusting 00:40:52.830 --> 00:40:56.497 and power people are antisocial, et cetera. 00:40:57.593 --> 00:40:59.934 The ones that say they're not interested in power 00:40:59.934 --> 00:41:02.851 are often the most dangerous types. 00:41:04.384 --> 00:41:06.483 I would say that The Prince is more relevant now 00:41:06.483 --> 00:41:08.240 than it almost ever has been. 00:41:08.240 --> 00:41:09.955 And that he was ahead of his time, 00:41:09.955 --> 00:41:11.922 he was 500 years ahead of his time. 00:41:11.922 --> 00:41:14.682 And that this book is absolutely 00:41:14.682 --> 00:41:17.193 the perfect template for how to survive 00:41:17.193 --> 00:41:20.610 and thrive in the world that's coming up. 00:41:22.807 --> 00:41:26.045 (explosion booming) 00:41:26.045 --> 00:41:28.199 - [Alan] Using The Prince as a guide to warfare 00:41:28.199 --> 00:41:30.341 may sound a bit extreme, 00:41:30.341 --> 00:41:33.006 but that's exactly what Colonel Tim Collins 00:41:33.006 --> 00:41:35.825 did when he was in Iraq. 00:41:35.825 --> 00:41:37.908 Collins is famous for the rousing speech 00:41:37.908 --> 00:41:40.068 he made on the eve of battle, 00:41:40.068 --> 00:41:44.943 later recreated in a short film starring Kenneth Branagh. 00:41:44.943 --> 00:41:46.684 - Now there are some who are alive at this moment 00:41:46.684 --> 00:41:49.263 who will not be alive shortly. 00:41:49.263 --> 00:41:51.998 Those of them who do not wish to go on that journey, 00:41:51.998 --> 00:41:53.694 we will not send them. 00:41:53.694 --> 00:41:54.723 As for the others... 00:41:54.723 --> 00:41:57.579 - [Alan] What is less known is that, while he was in Iraq, 00:41:57.579 --> 00:42:02.488 Collins kept a copy of The Prince with him at all times. 00:42:02.488 --> 00:42:04.153 - In Iraq, I kept dipping into it. 00:42:04.153 --> 00:42:05.773 I carried it around in my map pocket 00:42:05.773 --> 00:42:09.498 and I would take it out and read it. 00:42:09.498 --> 00:42:11.524 I would study to find out what it was 00:42:11.524 --> 00:42:13.060 he was specifically saying about 00:42:13.060 --> 00:42:14.896 what will cause populations to hate you. 00:42:14.896 --> 00:42:16.707 Because here's the headline news, 00:42:16.707 --> 00:42:19.121 what would have got you hated 500 years ago 00:42:19.121 --> 00:42:21.073 is what's gonna get you hated today. 00:42:21.073 --> 00:42:24.494 So it's worth studying it to what it is he's saying. 00:42:24.494 --> 00:42:27.306 This is the book I had with me in Iraq. 00:42:27.306 --> 00:42:29.630 And it's pretty fragile now because 00:42:29.630 --> 00:42:31.721 it literally has been through the wars. 00:42:31.721 --> 00:42:34.445 And the sand still falls out of it. 00:42:34.445 --> 00:42:35.666 If you read Machiavelli, 00:42:35.666 --> 00:42:37.013 you realize at the end of the day 00:42:37.013 --> 00:42:38.723 what you've got to do is the right thing. 00:42:38.723 --> 00:42:40.190 So, if you are in an occupied village, 00:42:40.190 --> 00:42:42.149 we could organize a football match 00:42:42.149 --> 00:42:43.895 and give out bars of soap. 00:42:43.895 --> 00:42:45.445 Or we could have a curfew and tell you, 00:42:45.445 --> 00:42:48.639 the first person I catch with a weapon is a dead man, 00:42:48.639 --> 00:42:50.919 and I want all weapons handed in tomorrow. 00:42:50.919 --> 00:42:53.473 And after that, anybody caught with one is a dead man. 00:42:53.473 --> 00:42:55.058 And then get all the weapons handed in. 00:42:55.058 --> 00:42:56.582 And once all the weapons are out of the way 00:42:56.582 --> 00:42:58.297 and they fear your very shadow, 00:42:58.297 --> 00:43:00.936 then we can have a football match. 00:43:00.936 --> 00:43:03.313 - [Alan] And do you think, as a manual, 00:43:03.313 --> 00:43:05.115 that this had lessons for you? 00:43:05.115 --> 00:43:06.123 - Absolutely. 00:43:06.123 --> 00:43:07.803 I mean, he is spot on throughout. 00:43:07.803 --> 00:43:09.974 I think that all he's saying ultimately is, 00:43:09.974 --> 00:43:12.517 for good or for ill, this is what works. 00:43:12.517 --> 00:43:16.590 So, on that basis, I think he's the good guy. 00:43:16.590 --> 00:43:18.890 What he described was what he saw. 00:43:18.890 --> 00:43:20.126 And he did it so accurately 00:43:20.126 --> 00:43:23.322 that here we are centuries later still reading it 00:43:23.322 --> 00:43:27.072 and still observing it in our everyday lives. 00:43:28.683 --> 00:43:30.219 - Chapter Three. 00:43:30.219 --> 00:43:32.317 "It should be observed here that men should 00:43:32.317 --> 00:43:34.841 "either be caressed or crushed 00:43:34.841 --> 00:43:37.035 "because they can avenge slight injuries 00:43:37.035 --> 00:43:40.118 "but not those that are very severe." 00:43:41.109 --> 00:43:43.146 - What Machiavelli would say is that, 00:43:43.146 --> 00:43:44.717 if you decide to do something, 00:43:44.717 --> 00:43:46.084 you go through with it to the end. 00:43:46.084 --> 00:43:48.365 And that means not to spatter your enemy, 00:43:48.365 --> 00:43:50.546 to crush your enemy. 00:43:50.546 --> 00:43:51.955 Cause him to cease to exist. 00:43:51.955 --> 00:43:54.018 That way you're certain there can be no 00:43:54.018 --> 00:43:56.601 comeback on you or your people. 00:43:58.503 --> 00:44:00.268 - The crush-your-enemy dynamic 00:44:00.268 --> 00:44:01.838 is something that Machiavelli 00:44:01.838 --> 00:44:03.412 discovered as a law of power. 00:44:03.412 --> 00:44:04.528 And it's timeless. 00:44:04.528 --> 00:44:08.378 And it exists in warfare and it totally exists in business. 00:44:08.378 --> 00:44:10.038 The classic example was the war 00:44:10.038 --> 00:44:13.698 between Microsoft and Netscape in the 1990s, 00:44:13.698 --> 00:44:16.228 in which Netscape was one of the hottest things around 00:44:16.228 --> 00:44:19.914 and Microsoft completely crushed Netscape. 00:44:19.914 --> 00:44:21.831 It doesn't exist anymore. 00:44:21.831 --> 00:44:25.440 - Internet wars, Microsoft vs. Netscape, 00:44:25.440 --> 00:44:27.357 Goliath takes on David. 00:44:28.934 --> 00:44:30.510 - [Robert] You find the same thing with Google. 00:44:30.510 --> 00:44:32.571 Every time there is a possible competitor, 00:44:32.571 --> 00:44:34.181 they go out and buy them out. 00:44:34.181 --> 00:44:36.083 Like YouTube, etc. 00:44:36.083 --> 00:44:37.938 - [Alan] Google buys YouTube. 00:44:37.938 --> 00:44:39.687 - [Robert] You look at it with Amazon. 00:44:39.687 --> 00:44:40.924 On and on down the line, 00:44:40.924 --> 00:44:43.885 it's the dynamic in business where you need to consume 00:44:43.885 --> 00:44:46.552 the various rivals in your path. 00:44:47.392 --> 00:44:49.693 - "It can be said of men that they are ungrateful, 00:44:49.693 --> 00:44:51.712 "fickle liars and deceivers. 00:44:51.712 --> 00:44:55.753 "They shun danger and are greedy for profit." 00:44:55.753 --> 00:44:58.998 - [Alan] I keep coming back to these lines from The Prince. 00:44:58.998 --> 00:45:01.062 Is this what people are really like? 00:45:01.062 --> 00:45:05.229 Are we all ungrateful, fickle liars and deceivers? 00:45:06.673 --> 00:45:09.952 The Machiavelli Test is an attempt to answer that. 00:45:09.952 --> 00:45:13.430 It was developed by psychologists in the 1960s. 00:45:13.430 --> 00:45:17.444 20 questions tap into our Machiavellian instincts. 00:45:17.444 --> 00:45:19.408 You end up with a score that tells you whether 00:45:19.408 --> 00:45:22.755 you're a high Mac or a low Mac. 00:45:22.755 --> 00:45:25.838 Now this is something I can't resist. 00:45:26.836 --> 00:45:29.416 - Alan, in this test there are 20 statements. 00:45:29.416 --> 00:45:31.061 I want you to indicate the extent to which 00:45:31.061 --> 00:45:33.613 you agree or disagree with each statement. 00:45:33.613 --> 00:45:36.507 I want you to answer as truthfully as you can. 00:45:36.507 --> 00:45:39.546 Answer one if you strongly disagree with the statement, 00:45:39.546 --> 00:45:41.118 two if you disagree, 00:45:41.118 --> 00:45:43.046 three if you are neutral, 00:45:43.046 --> 00:45:44.525 four if you agree, 00:45:44.525 --> 00:45:46.538 and five if you strongly agree. 00:45:46.538 --> 00:45:47.371 Okay? 00:45:48.350 --> 00:45:49.627 Number one. 00:45:49.627 --> 00:45:52.318 Never tell anyone the real reason you did something 00:45:52.318 --> 00:45:54.735 unless it is useful to do so. 00:45:56.045 --> 00:45:57.550 - Two. 00:45:57.550 --> 00:45:59.437 - The best way to handle people is to tell them 00:45:59.437 --> 00:46:01.354 what they want to hear. 00:46:04.384 --> 00:46:05.217 - Three. 00:46:06.584 --> 00:46:11.156 - It is hard to get ahead without cutting corners. 00:46:11.156 --> 00:46:11.989 - Four. 00:46:13.009 --> 00:46:16.996 - It is wise to flatter important people. 00:46:16.996 --> 00:46:17.829 - Four. 00:46:19.445 --> 00:46:23.200 Since its conception, there've been around 1,400 studies 00:46:23.200 --> 00:46:25.699 that have used the Machiavelli Test. 00:46:25.699 --> 00:46:28.347 So what do the results tell us? 00:46:28.347 --> 00:46:29.727 - One of the most consistent findings 00:46:29.727 --> 00:46:31.307 to come out of our studies 00:46:31.307 --> 00:46:33.093 is that men are more Machiavellian than women. 00:46:33.093 --> 00:46:34.239 Not by a great deal, 00:46:34.239 --> 00:46:35.565 but they come out consistently more 00:46:35.565 --> 00:46:37.107 Machiavellian than women. 00:46:37.107 --> 00:46:40.111 Machiavellianism tends to peak in adolescence. 00:46:40.111 --> 00:46:42.679 And another interesting finding to come from the studies 00:46:42.679 --> 00:46:44.269 is that it doesn't matter what 00:46:44.269 --> 00:46:45.970 your political orientation is. 00:46:45.970 --> 00:46:47.625 That is, right wingers and left wingers 00:46:47.625 --> 00:46:49.985 don't differ in Machiavellianism. 00:46:49.985 --> 00:46:51.787 You might tend to think that perhaps right wingers 00:46:51.787 --> 00:46:53.500 are perhaps a little bit more Machiavellian. 00:46:53.500 --> 00:46:54.500 They're not. 00:46:55.982 --> 00:46:57.672 - So how did I do? 00:46:57.672 --> 00:46:59.580 - Well, Alan, I suppose it's good news. 00:46:59.580 --> 00:47:03.855 You came out with a mean score of 2.95 on these questions. 00:47:03.855 --> 00:47:06.277 Which means that you're neutral. 00:47:06.277 --> 00:47:07.938 Or just tending to disagree 00:47:07.938 --> 00:47:10.012 with the Machiavellian questions. 00:47:10.012 --> 00:47:11.632 That makes you somewhat less Machiavellian 00:47:11.632 --> 00:47:13.632 than the average person. 00:47:14.558 --> 00:47:17.005 - But if I were truly Machiavellian, 00:47:17.005 --> 00:47:20.009 I would probably be lying, wouldn't I? 00:47:20.009 --> 00:47:21.609 - [Man] You probably would in this setting 00:47:21.609 --> 00:47:23.602 because you're filming a documentary 00:47:23.602 --> 00:47:25.934 and your responses are going out to the nation. 00:47:25.934 --> 00:47:28.607 But if you were an anonymous research... 00:47:28.607 --> 00:47:31.631 - [Alan] I'm still not sure what to make of Machiavelli. 00:47:31.631 --> 00:47:35.767 Is The Prince a manual for tyrants, devoid of all morality, 00:47:35.767 --> 00:47:38.998 or is it a realistic guide to life? 00:47:38.998 --> 00:47:42.594 Is Machiavelli a goodie or a baddie? 00:47:42.594 --> 00:47:45.491 - It seems to me that he holds a place as a cultural icon. 00:47:45.491 --> 00:47:46.935 He's a baddie. 00:47:46.935 --> 00:47:48.565 Whereas actually the book is about 00:47:48.565 --> 00:47:52.594 the exposure of the nature of badness and goodness. 00:47:52.594 --> 00:47:55.702 It says, we need to think of morality as a toolkit. 00:47:55.702 --> 00:47:59.869 Vices and virtues are artifacts we've invented to survive. 00:48:01.084 --> 00:48:04.260 - [Alan] Is it a sort of realistic view of human nature, 00:48:04.260 --> 00:48:05.444 and not just of human nature, 00:48:05.444 --> 00:48:07.664 but the journey that we all have to make? 00:48:07.664 --> 00:48:08.883 - Well, yes, it could be. 00:48:08.883 --> 00:48:12.215 But it could be a realistic view of human nature 00:48:12.215 --> 00:48:16.354 after you've lost belief in love and kindness. 00:48:16.354 --> 00:48:17.616 But you could put it the other way round and think 00:48:17.616 --> 00:48:19.775 that what's being said is, 00:48:19.775 --> 00:48:24.130 if virtue isn't necessarily rewarded, why be virtuous? 00:48:24.130 --> 00:48:25.572 Which is a good question. 00:48:25.572 --> 00:48:26.803 And the answer would be something like, 00:48:26.803 --> 00:48:29.509 well, virtue is good in and of itself. 00:48:29.509 --> 00:48:31.305 It's better to be kind than to be cruel. 00:48:31.305 --> 00:48:33.251 Not because you'll do better in life, 00:48:33.251 --> 00:48:36.083 but because it's better to be kind than to be cruel. 00:48:36.083 --> 00:48:38.747 - I'm keen on the thought that Machiavelli is a moralist, 00:48:38.747 --> 00:48:41.049 he's just not a kind of moralist whom I admire. 00:48:41.049 --> 00:48:43.390 He is someone who thinks that the quality of your actions 00:48:43.390 --> 00:48:46.186 is to be judged in terms of their consequences. 00:48:46.186 --> 00:48:50.068 That allows him this great leeway for saying, well, 00:48:50.068 --> 00:48:52.168 it's necessary for the goal, 00:48:52.168 --> 00:48:54.110 which is a good one, for you to do evil. 00:48:54.110 --> 00:48:57.314 And don't worry about the fact that you have done something 00:48:57.314 --> 00:49:00.962 which is unjust if you are certain that if you didn't do it 00:49:00.962 --> 00:49:02.896 it would have affected the security 00:49:02.896 --> 00:49:04.583 and the well-being of the state. 00:49:04.583 --> 00:49:06.646 Because your job is to maintain that. 00:49:06.646 --> 00:49:08.736 And the point is, you've got to maintain 00:49:08.736 --> 00:49:10.452 that whatever happens. 00:49:10.452 --> 00:49:12.883 That's the horrible thing about Machiavelli. 00:49:12.883 --> 00:49:13.920 I mean, let's be clear. 00:49:13.920 --> 00:49:15.823 This is, I think, a horrible book. 00:49:15.823 --> 00:49:18.011 I mean it's a horrible book because it says, 00:49:18.011 --> 00:49:19.545 don't worry about the virtues, 00:49:19.545 --> 00:49:21.371 just worry about consequences. 00:49:21.371 --> 00:49:23.123 Your job is to keep people secure. 00:49:23.123 --> 00:49:24.602 Do whatever is necessary. 00:49:24.602 --> 00:49:26.316 Well, if you think about the implications of that, 00:49:26.316 --> 00:49:28.235 they're pretty appalling. 00:49:28.235 --> 00:49:30.129 - I also think there's a despair in this. 00:49:30.129 --> 00:49:32.950 Because the fundamental despair in it is the assumption that 00:49:32.950 --> 00:49:35.192 people don't want to collaborate with each other. 00:49:35.192 --> 00:49:38.473 That people don't want to look after each other. 00:49:38.473 --> 00:49:40.493 You can imagine it also as a book written 00:49:40.493 --> 00:49:42.435 in the aftermath of a trauma. 00:49:42.435 --> 00:49:44.192 And in a way, of course, he was in prison. 00:49:44.192 --> 00:49:46.624 So there was a trauma. 00:49:46.624 --> 00:49:49.758 You could think Machiavelli is very disillusioned 00:49:49.758 --> 00:49:51.185 about a lot of things. 00:49:51.185 --> 00:49:54.208 So it's a bit like he's saying, once you lose heart, 00:49:54.208 --> 00:49:57.316 once you lose belief in human goodness and collaboration 00:49:57.316 --> 00:49:58.779 and kindness and love, 00:49:58.779 --> 00:50:00.712 this is what the world is going to look like. 00:50:00.712 --> 00:50:02.549 And more and more of us are gonna have experiences 00:50:02.549 --> 00:50:03.977 in which we feel disillusioned, 00:50:03.977 --> 00:50:06.172 so we need to wise up to this. 00:50:06.172 --> 00:50:07.914 ("Made Niggaz" by Tupac Shakur) 00:50:07.914 --> 00:50:09.867 - [Alan] This is Tupac Shakur. 00:50:09.867 --> 00:50:12.601 He'd been huge fan of Machiavelli 00:50:12.601 --> 00:50:15.964 before he was gunned down 1996. 00:50:15.964 --> 00:50:17.512 When was in prison, 00:50:17.512 --> 00:50:19.907 he studied The Prince and when he got out 00:50:19.907 --> 00:50:23.237 he changed his name to Makaveli. 00:50:23.237 --> 00:50:24.796 And made videos like this. 00:50:24.796 --> 00:50:26.981 ♫ Makaveli the Don till I'm gone 00:50:26.981 --> 00:50:29.515 - [Alan] More recently, the rapper 50 Cent 00:50:29.515 --> 00:50:31.222 wrote a book with Robert Greene 00:50:31.222 --> 00:50:32.937 called The 50th Law, 00:50:32.937 --> 00:50:35.550 a Machiavellian bible for success 00:50:35.550 --> 00:50:39.217 based on the single principal, fear nothing. 00:50:40.643 --> 00:50:44.492 - There is not a single more Machiavellian environment 00:50:44.492 --> 00:50:46.434 than the music industry on this planet. 00:50:46.434 --> 00:50:50.052 It makes Hollywood look like kindergarten. 00:50:50.052 --> 00:50:51.653 It is ruthless. 00:50:51.653 --> 00:50:54.253 It's Game of Thrones times five. 00:50:54.253 --> 00:50:57.600 And so someone like 50, he said it helped him. 00:50:57.600 --> 00:51:01.767 It helped him negotiate this shark-infested environment. 00:51:02.625 --> 00:51:04.489 Power is a neutral term. 00:51:04.489 --> 00:51:07.763 It can be used for bad and it can be used for good. 00:51:07.763 --> 00:51:09.263 It's like a tool. 00:51:19.955 --> 00:51:22.467 - [Alan] Apart from Tupac and 50 Cent, 00:51:22.467 --> 00:51:25.906 who else these days measures up to Machiavelli? 00:51:25.906 --> 00:51:28.656 Who would Machiavelli approve of? 00:51:29.526 --> 00:51:31.558 - Well, a lot of what Machiavelli is about 00:51:31.558 --> 00:51:32.869 is about being strategic, 00:51:32.869 --> 00:51:36.458 about trying to think in a longer term frame. 00:51:36.458 --> 00:51:38.061 So if you think about someone like Alex Ferguson 00:51:38.061 --> 00:51:38.985 of Manchester United, 00:51:38.985 --> 00:51:40.752 he was clearly as strategic manager. 00:51:40.752 --> 00:51:42.285 He wasn't trying to think about the next match, 00:51:42.285 --> 00:51:44.123 he was thinking on a much longer time frame. 00:51:44.123 --> 00:51:45.228 I think someone like that would be 00:51:45.228 --> 00:51:47.040 an unconscious Machiavellian. 00:51:47.040 --> 00:51:50.244 - I would say that the most person 00:51:50.244 --> 00:51:52.473 certainly in my lifetime 00:51:52.473 --> 00:51:56.260 that I would resemble to Machiavelli 00:51:56.260 --> 00:51:58.488 would be Margaret Thatcher. 00:51:58.488 --> 00:52:00.701 She certainly wasn't loved by her Cabinet. 00:52:00.701 --> 00:52:03.383 But she was certainly feared. 00:52:03.383 --> 00:52:05.412 - I think if you're looking for a very good example 00:52:05.412 --> 00:52:08.662 of an institution that has applied well 00:52:10.164 --> 00:52:13.711 some of the lessons and the principles in The Prince, 00:52:13.711 --> 00:52:16.435 you'll find them in the Royal Family. 00:52:16.435 --> 00:52:18.343 I mean, there was a period when 00:52:18.343 --> 00:52:20.179 actually the sense of the royal brand, 00:52:20.179 --> 00:52:22.435 if you like, was becoming quite negative. 00:52:22.435 --> 00:52:23.792 Well, they've seen that off. 00:52:23.792 --> 00:52:24.625 Big time. 00:52:24.625 --> 00:52:26.482 And I think they've seen it off, in part, 00:52:26.482 --> 00:52:28.809 by operating some of these 00:52:28.809 --> 00:52:31.966 timeless principles that are set out in The Prince. 00:52:31.966 --> 00:52:34.383 But in very a modern context. 00:52:36.446 --> 00:52:38.665 - [Alan] The Prince may anticipate a world 00:52:38.665 --> 00:52:40.869 five centuries into the future, 00:52:40.869 --> 00:52:44.018 but what happened to the book itself? 00:52:44.018 --> 00:52:46.259 It was published in 1532 00:52:46.259 --> 00:52:49.765 and not surprisingly the Pope banned it. 00:52:49.765 --> 00:52:53.320 - The Papal Index is set up in 1559. 00:52:53.320 --> 00:52:55.417 It's simply an alphabetical list of books 00:52:55.417 --> 00:52:56.569 which you mustn't read. 00:52:56.569 --> 00:52:58.526 They are mostly Lutheran and Calvinist books, 00:52:58.526 --> 00:53:01.323 works of deep heresy according to the Catholic Church. 00:53:01.323 --> 00:53:03.853 But some secular writers are in there, 00:53:03.853 --> 00:53:06.721 and Nicholas Machiavelli is in there 00:53:06.721 --> 00:53:10.888 under the heading "all his works are totally banned." 00:53:14.067 --> 00:53:15.638 - [Alan] But that didn't stop The Prince 00:53:15.638 --> 00:53:17.031 from reaching England 00:53:17.031 --> 00:53:19.191 and cementing Niccolo Machiavelli's 00:53:19.191 --> 00:53:22.358 reputation as Old Nick - the devil. 00:53:23.238 --> 00:53:25.395 - England was the country that really 00:53:25.395 --> 00:53:26.521 played the biggest role 00:53:26.521 --> 00:53:30.179 in spreading this idea that this man was satanic. 00:53:30.179 --> 00:53:32.773 (grunting) 00:53:32.773 --> 00:53:34.827 - [Alan] Shakespeare doesn't exactly help, 00:53:34.827 --> 00:53:36.831 as Machiavelli's name is evoked by 00:53:36.831 --> 00:53:39.182 the scheming Duke of Gloucester, 00:53:39.182 --> 00:53:41.150 the future Richard III. 00:53:41.150 --> 00:53:43.745 - I can add colors to the Chameleon, 00:53:43.745 --> 00:53:46.191 change shapes with Proteus for advantages 00:53:46.191 --> 00:53:50.082 and set the murderous Machiavel to school. 00:53:50.082 --> 00:53:52.780 - [Alan] We may have inherited this idea of Machiavelli 00:53:52.780 --> 00:53:56.727 as the devil, but that's not what the Italians think. 00:53:56.727 --> 00:54:00.184 In Florence, his statue stands outside the Uffizi 00:54:00.184 --> 00:54:03.197 alongside the Italian greats. 00:54:03.197 --> 00:54:06.614 The Prince is even a set text in schools. 00:54:15.333 --> 00:54:17.466 - If you think for instance that it's one of 00:54:17.466 --> 00:54:19.452 the three Italian books 00:54:19.452 --> 00:54:21.367 translated all over the world, 00:54:21.367 --> 00:54:23.849 in almost all language in the world. 00:54:23.849 --> 00:54:26.817 And the other ones are Dante's, of course, 00:54:26.817 --> 00:54:30.292 comedy of Dante, and Pinocchio by Collodi. 00:54:30.292 --> 00:54:33.923 So The Prince, Pinocchio and Dante, 00:54:33.923 --> 00:54:37.058 the three most translated books. 00:54:37.058 --> 00:54:41.000 This is something, don't you know? (laughing) 00:54:41.000 --> 00:54:42.213 - [Alan] And there's another reason 00:54:42.213 --> 00:54:44.120 why Machiavelli is admired. 00:54:44.120 --> 00:54:46.556 Ultimately, he was in favor of republics 00:54:46.556 --> 00:54:49.397 rather than inherited rule. 00:54:49.397 --> 00:54:52.270 - He distinguishes between an old prince and a new prince. 00:54:52.270 --> 00:54:54.993 Old princes are people who have inherited their position. 00:54:54.993 --> 00:54:57.884 But then there's the new prince who rises from the bottom. 00:54:57.884 --> 00:55:00.428 He's completely on the side of the new prince 00:55:00.428 --> 00:55:02.420 because he believes that the new prince 00:55:02.420 --> 00:55:06.668 can only rise to the top with their own energy. 00:55:06.668 --> 00:55:08.351 - Now one of the interesting things about The Prince is 00:55:08.351 --> 00:55:10.352 it's got an irony attached to it. 00:55:10.352 --> 00:55:12.764 It's saying, if you want to hold onto power, 00:55:12.764 --> 00:55:14.540 this is how to behave. 00:55:14.540 --> 00:55:17.075 But we can all read it. 00:55:17.075 --> 00:55:21.815 So it's a book about trickery which exposes the tricks. 00:55:21.815 --> 00:55:25.089 - Here are some different translations of The Prince. 00:55:25.089 --> 00:55:28.746 We really received them from the many visitors coming here. 00:55:28.746 --> 00:55:32.704 We have French, from the Republica Czecha, 00:55:32.704 --> 00:55:34.324 in Norwegian, 00:55:34.324 --> 00:55:36.907 from Oslo, in German, 00:55:36.907 --> 00:55:38.240 Korean, Russian. 00:55:39.761 --> 00:55:42.594 A doctor from Israel sent us this. 00:55:43.540 --> 00:55:44.983 Chinese. 00:55:44.983 --> 00:55:47.612 This we received from Belgrade. 00:55:47.612 --> 00:55:49.029 Polish, Japanese, 00:55:50.026 --> 00:55:51.443 Finnish, Turkish, 00:55:52.532 --> 00:55:54.282 Argentina, Norwegian, 00:55:55.329 --> 00:55:57.162 and English of course. 00:56:00.308 --> 00:56:02.058 And this is his land, 00:56:03.044 --> 00:56:06.371 his vineyards, his olive trees, 00:56:06.371 --> 00:56:07.454 his property. 00:56:09.451 --> 00:56:11.622 - [Alan] Today Machiavelli's house is owned 00:56:11.622 --> 00:56:13.241 by a wine company. 00:56:13.241 --> 00:56:15.967 Across the road, you can order a Chianti 00:56:15.967 --> 00:56:18.605 from Machiavelli's vineyard. 00:56:18.605 --> 00:56:20.665 Here's to The Prince. 00:56:20.665 --> 00:56:21.676 - Okay. 00:56:21.676 --> 00:56:23.212 (glasses clinking) 00:56:23.212 --> 00:56:24.545 Now tell me, 00:56:24.545 --> 00:56:28.367 do many people come here to visit the home of Machiavelli? 00:56:28.367 --> 00:56:31.379 - [Lucia] Yes, from all over the world. 00:56:31.379 --> 00:56:35.268 Many years ago, came Tony Blair also. 00:56:35.268 --> 00:56:36.101 - Really? 00:56:36.101 --> 00:56:37.005 - [Lucia] Really. 00:56:37.005 --> 00:56:38.468 - When did he come here? 00:56:38.468 --> 00:56:40.635 - [Lucia] He came in 1998. 00:56:41.531 --> 00:56:44.206 - [Alan] So just a year after he came to power. 00:56:44.206 --> 00:56:46.366 - [Lucia] Yeah, mmm-hmm. 00:56:46.366 --> 00:56:47.880 - [Alan] Did you take him round the house? 00:56:47.880 --> 00:56:50.746 - Si, we went around, and we gave him, 00:56:50.746 --> 00:56:53.355 of course, a copy of The Prince. 00:56:53.355 --> 00:56:54.228 - Did you really? 00:56:54.228 --> 00:56:55.061 - Yeah. 00:56:55.061 --> 00:56:56.872 - In Italian or English? 00:56:56.872 --> 00:56:57.955 - In Italian. 00:56:58.875 --> 00:57:03.075 - [Alan] But what happened to Machiavelli himself? 00:57:03.075 --> 00:57:05.104 The whole of the point of writing The Prince was to get 00:57:05.104 --> 00:57:08.331 noticed by the most powerful man in Florence. 00:57:08.331 --> 00:57:11.199 But Machiavelli totally failed. 00:57:11.199 --> 00:57:12.423 As far as we know, 00:57:12.423 --> 00:57:15.135 Lorenzo the Magnificent never even read it 00:57:15.135 --> 00:57:18.853 and Machiavelli never got his job back. 00:57:18.853 --> 00:57:21.166 He ended up here on his estate, 00:57:21.166 --> 00:57:24.666 drinking wine and writing books and plays. 00:57:25.695 --> 00:57:28.177 - In many ways, Machiavelli was a failure. 00:57:28.177 --> 00:57:30.460 Because he gave advice that other people 00:57:30.460 --> 00:57:33.262 could never be seen to be taking. 00:57:33.262 --> 00:57:35.249 It may well have been very useful to other people, 00:57:35.249 --> 00:57:36.521 but the last thing they could do, 00:57:36.521 --> 00:57:38.731 according to his own tenets in the book, 00:57:38.731 --> 00:57:42.651 is show that they were taking his advice. 00:57:42.651 --> 00:57:45.312 - [Alan] The biggest irony in this whole story 00:57:45.312 --> 00:57:47.324 is that Machiavelli himself 00:57:47.324 --> 00:57:52.245 didn't appear to be in the least bit Machiavellian. 00:57:52.245 --> 00:57:55.721 In a letter to a friend, Machiavelli once wrote: 00:57:55.721 --> 00:57:58.403 "When evening comes I go back home. 00:57:58.403 --> 00:58:00.187 "I take off my work clothes 00:58:00.187 --> 00:58:03.476 "and put on the clothes of an ambassador. 00:58:03.476 --> 00:58:06.690 "I enter the ancient courts of rulers. 00:58:06.690 --> 00:58:08.947 "I forget every worry. 00:58:08.947 --> 00:58:11.490 "I'm no longer afraid of poverty 00:58:11.490 --> 00:58:13.830 "or frightened of death. 00:58:13.830 --> 00:58:16.413 "I live entirely through them." 00:58:18.620 --> 00:58:22.120 Machiavelli died in 1527 at the age of 58, 00:58:23.096 --> 00:58:27.012 five years before The Prince was published. 00:58:27.012 --> 00:58:30.377 Little did he know that 500 years later 00:58:30.377 --> 00:58:33.639 what he called his "little pamphlet" would remain 00:58:33.639 --> 00:58:37.556 one of the most influential books ever written. 00:58:41.574 --> 00:58:43.638 ♫ Makaveli the Don, till I'm gone 00:58:43.638 --> 00:58:45.187 ♫ I maintain my army 00:58:45.187 --> 00:58:46.877 ♫ Of lunatics that stay armed 00:58:46.877 --> 00:58:47.829 ♫ Till the day I die 00:58:47.829 --> 00:58:49.350 - [Woman] Alan. 00:58:49.350 --> 00:58:50.910 Alan. 00:58:50.910 --> 00:58:52.266 What about the BBC? 00:58:52.266 --> 00:58:55.766 Surely that's a Machiavellian institution? 00:58:57.423 --> 00:59:01.472 - You may think that but I couldn't possibly comment. 00:59:01.472 --> 00:59:02.944 ♫ My life in exchange for yours 00:59:02.944 --> 00:59:04.337 ♫ Born hated as a thug 00:59:04.337 --> 00:59:05.634 ♫ House full of babies cryin' 00:59:05.634 --> 00:59:06.897 ♫ From a lack of gettin' love 00:59:06.897 --> 00:59:08.321 ♫ Ain't nobody tell me shit 00:59:08.321 --> 00:59:09.594 ♫ 'Til I got a sack of drugs 00:59:09.594 --> 00:59:10.911 ♫ Had the block sewn up 00:59:10.911 --> 00:59:12.002 ♫ 'Cause I learned to pack a gun 00:59:12.002 --> 00:59:12.835 ♫ Do you feel me