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<i>preroll music</i>

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Herald: Our next speaker is Tarek Loubani.

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He is an emergency physician,

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working in the Gaza Strip and in Canada

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and he is developing medical hardware devices.

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And he is going to tell us about the [br]Palestinian use of free hardware and software.

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So enjoy and give a warm welcome to Tarek.

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<i>applause</i>

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Tarek: ... (missing Audio)

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Thank you to CCC for inviting me [br]to give this talk

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and to you for being here tonight.

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I want to start with just some very basic information[br]here about myself.

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If we can get the video feed up.

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OK, so there we go.

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If you want to get a hold of me, you can find me,[br]find this project on github,

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you can find our team on openmed at freenode,

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or you can always get a hold of me by e-mail,

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hopefully one of the easiest e-mails[br]you'll ever have to remember.

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And I'll bring that information up at the end.

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I want to start then with a story:

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This is another story, because you heard so many[br]about refugees.

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But this story is a personal one,

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because it is my story as a refugee.

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And about the time, that my father reminded me[br]of who I was.

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He put this card in front of me, [br]when I was 8 years old.

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This card was literally the only thing,

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that atested to my existence as a human being [br]for the first 12 years of my life.

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It says: The director general affirms that[br]Tarek Loubani is a palestinian.

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And as proof, I have given him [br]this identity card.

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Not a lot to work, not a lot to own,[br]not a lot to do anything. That was it.

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And so I sat in front of my father,

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I just got, I think it was a C[br]on some meaningless subject

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as an 8 year old. Who cares?

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But he cared. He put that paper in front of me[br]and he said:

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Son, this paper, it doesn't prove [br]that you're somebody,

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it proves, that you're nobody,

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that you're nothing.

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And there we were, living in Kuwait with [br]a nice appartment that we had rented

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A and a car outfront. And he said:[br]

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all of these things didn't belong to us and[br]could be taken in a moment.

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He had only one caveat to this nihilism.[br]He said:

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There is only one thing you have, one thing[br]that the wolfs can never take away from you.

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One thing, that you can never be dispossessed of.

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And that's what you know, [br]that's the information in your head.

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That's what's up in here.

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And so was thesapokalyptic warning would [br]result in me and my family minus my father

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because he was trapped in Kuwait at the time[br]driving through this:

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The highway of death [br]as it would later be called.

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With my mother crying tears for weeks[br]while she got us out,

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her 4 children until we finally made our way [br]through, I think it was 4 or 5 different countries

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and into Canada.

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Mine is a microcosmic lesson of the lesson,[br]that all Palestinian were given.

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Because all Palestinian have been dispossessed[br]at some point or will be.

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What do you think the parents of these [br]children will tell them

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about who they are and what they possess?

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What do you think is the meaning of their homes[br]and physical possessions?

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What is it that they own or that they have?

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Their parents will tell them, [br]what my parents told me:

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You have nothing and you are nothing.[br]Only what's in here.

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And so, if they are in their predatory drones[br]then we must be the prey.

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And that means, that we'll always live in the [br]third world a different life

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from the life the people live in the developed [br]world.

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You have to be on one of the two sides of[br]that predator drone of that advanced missle,

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of that technology, that litigation of [br]treaty.

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And we had seen the light of the first world[br]from that those refugees camps.

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We saw it. And what we wanted was not[br]the Playstation 4s and the iPhones

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though yes, of course. Great stuff.

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What we wanted was the CT scanners

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and the hospitals that were outfitted so that[br]you could feel like you cold go in them

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and come a whole human being still [br]just like you went in.

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That is the wealth that we wanted. That is the[br]wealth that we saw and that is the wealth

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that they protected.

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Both metaphorically and literally

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through all manner of instruments of [br]neoliberalism and colonialism.

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They do it

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because to them everything, everything [br]they see, everything in the world around them

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is fish.

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They can't see the world any other way.

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And so they think, that if you catch a fish[br]I can't have that same fish.

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And they don't realise, that we live in a [br]different world, where not everything is fish.

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Where there is information[br]and that information can go anywhere,

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and be anything and it can help everybody[br]at the same time.

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It's not a new concept.

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It's a concept that was almost perfected[br]by Magritte, 85 years ago

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represented here:

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That is not a pipe.

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It is the information to make a pipe.

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That is not an STL. Or that is not a[br]reproduction, that is an STL.

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Let's put some economic terms on this,[br]because the people, who we are working against,

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the people who promote the anti commons[br]they put language on this stuff.

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This is the main language.

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We can divide it into two main axes:[br]excludable and rivalrous.

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All items more or less fall into these categories.

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And so fish falls into this category. It is a [br]non-excludable, largely commodity

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that is rivalrous. Indeed

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it is very hard to keep people from [br]catching fish out in the harbour.

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But if one person catches one fish, then[br]the next person can not.

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Where society wants us to be by and large is right here:

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Products that are non-rivalrous but excludable.

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Think for example of an mp3. An mp3 should be this:[br]public good, it is not excludable,

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you can't keep people from it.[br]It is non-rivalrous.

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You give somebody an mp3, you haven't [br]taken away an mp3 from anybody else.

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And yet, what is desired, is for everything[br]to be here:

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A club good.

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You need a membership.

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Be that the country you live in or[br]the amount of money that you make.

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It is excludable.[br]Because they have excluded you.

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Not because of any inaid or inherant reason.

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How can we turn things from club goods[br]into public goods or

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another question: how have they turned things[br]from public goods into club goods?

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Well, here two men who've led the charge:

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Birch Bayh and Bob Dole.

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They came up with this legislation, that[br]ended up, basically making it so, that

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one thing that was available, non-excludable [br]and non-rivalrous, that is

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all of the information coming out of universities[br]and these sorts of charities and other little groups

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could now be patented. Patenting is the [br]main weapon here.

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That's how you turn things from usable by[br]everybody, available to everybody

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to usable by a few and available to few.

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Their policy was absolutely a success.

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Here you see the patents, starting from 1963[br]all the way to 2014. Total patents granted.

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1980 is highlighted in blue. Everything before[br]that is basically since the time of a man

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named Vannevar Bush,[br]who kind of floated the main idea,

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that information should kind of be out for folks.

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And as you can see, it's relatively stable.[br]

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More or less minor deviations[br]more or less the same.

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But from 1980 to 2014 it virtually looks exponential.

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So closer with the numbers.

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1980 66 thousend patents, in 2014 326033.

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And so these weapons, they've resulted in [br]us not being able to take things from

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simple idea to something we can use,[br]but instead we are loaded,

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we have to walk through these landmines.

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Now, this is a story that you all already know.[br]

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Because it doesn't matter what country [br]you live in.

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I'm guessing that everybody here lives in[br]first world.

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These are issues, that innovators in the first world[br]must content with.

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But by and large these are issues that stop[br]people in the first world from becoming rich.

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In the third world these are issues,[br]that can mean the difference between

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life and death.

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<i>applause</i>

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Here is an example from the late 90s[br]early 2000s.

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Profiteering pharmaceutical companies versus[br]South Africa.

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South Africa was in the middle of a [br]absolutely terrible crisis,

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which arguable they have not exited[br]with HIV AIDS

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and pharmaceutical companies using[br]the weapon of patents

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were saying: ehm, sorry, we can not give you[br]this medication at the rate you can affort,

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we can not give this medication to everybody,[br]because what protects our profits?

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Now, most people aren't that crass most of the[br]time, there are not saying what protects our profits,

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because that's bad public relations.

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But they say: Oh, what about our research and[br]development funds etc etc.

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Of course mostly done on the public dime.

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But in the end every once in a while, we happen to[br]see, one of the type, who pops up, who speaks

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a little bit more from the heart, as we have seen[br]recently.

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What my father told me initially, was what I've been[br]taught for all the years of my life.

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<i>music</i>

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What he told me is that either[br]you are one of the predators

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or one of the prey.

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It is an absolutely irrefutable truth.

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It's a natural order.

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It is absolut. God gave us this.

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You have to be on one side or the other.

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You just have to accept it.

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<i>music of video still playing</i>

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And so if you're born the caribou, [br]you have to own that existence,

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and just accept it.

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Well, just before I got on my plane here.[br]I was at work as a doctor.

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When I went to my shift, I did not go there,[br]

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so that I would allow the natural order [br]to take its course.

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I did not wake up today, so that the natural[br]order would take its course.

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Fuck the natural order.

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And fuck the world's who are behind it.

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I don't want it.

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People in Palestine don't want it.

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My patience don't want it.

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None of us want it.

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So, why do we accept it?

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If we look at the world around us

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what we're seeing then, is this thing, that [br]we want to just throw off that natural order.

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But the terms of our insurgency have to be

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careful.

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You can't as the caribou look at the wolf and say:

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ehm, well, I don't really care, you know, [br]fuck you and fuck your natural order

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and I am not participating.

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You have to be careful,

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because they are potent, they are dangerous.

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In this particular case the main danger[br]to us in the third world and developing nations

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is treaties.

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These laws are applied on us by treaty and [br]you can't just opt out.

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The Palestinian economic system is shut down[br]by FIAT

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Medication can't arrive by FIAT.

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All of these things happen, because we are too[br]weak.

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And so, how do you respond?

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What is the tool of resistance?

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We eluded to it earlier.

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My father even told it to me as a child.

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Knowledge

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and the Commons

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That is where a better future comes from.

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And that is where our examples live.

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So let's think about the free software movement.[br]Let's look at some examples.

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Some of you are German. [br]Munich is one such example.

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Munich has shifted allmost all of their city[br]digital infrastructure into free and open source.

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They even have their own Linux distribution.

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That's pretty amazing actually.

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There are other examples, that are some minor[br]cities here and there.

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There are some state wide examples.

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For example, such as Kerala in India.

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The chief minister basically like the prime, the [br]highest person within Kerala at the time said:

0:17:22.883,0:17:27.575
We believe that free and open-source software[br]is an essential component in our drive to

0:17:27.575,0:17:35.248
democratise information technology and bring[br]its benefits to all sections of society.

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In additon to Kerala, Tamil Nadu has done [br]something similar, also in India.

0:17:45.291,0:17:50.090
And then there are some partial ministry level[br]efforts, that have been happening,

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for example Italy, in their ministry of, I think it is, [br]defense or interior, you know, had decided

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just a small move to go from Microsoft Office[br]to Libre Office.

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Apperently small moves, but really[br]meaningful to the people around us.

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We'll look at this from places like[br]Palestine, like the Gaza Strip, where I work,

0:18:08.838,0:18:12.371
and we think, why can't we do that?

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Why can't we participate in these commons?

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What is it, that we can do to contribute?

0:18:17.450,0:18:20.903
At the national level, there are a couple of very[br]potent examples.

0:18:20.903,0:18:24.752
The two main examples, that I ran into, [br]were Equador and Brazil.

0:18:24.752,0:18:30.492
Equador, if you guys were at the talk yesterday[br]is a very interesting and nuanced place.

0:18:30.492,0:18:34.210
So there are some authoritarian tendencies.[br]

0:18:34.210,0:18:38.018
Bethany Horne, who I believe is in our [br]audiency here, I won't point her out,

0:18:38.018,0:18:43.537
is one person, who's been visited by the [br]authoritarianism of the group.

0:18:43.537,0:18:49.879
But notwithstanding, they are doing some very [br]good things and one of those very good things

0:18:49.879,0:18:54.094
is free software at the national level.[br]That's actually quite incredible.

0:18:54.094,0:18:57.059
Directed from the presidency.

0:18:57.059,0:19:05.671
Brazil very similar. Brazil started their move[br]almost the same time, maybe a little bit before.

0:19:05.671,0:19:12.970
So, Palestine looks quite ripe. For exactly the [br]same thing we've been seen,

0:19:12.970,0:19:15.227
has a few characteristics:

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These are the literacy levels of [br]a few different countries.

0:19:19.945,0:19:23.741
United States and Germany,[br]basically 1% who are illiterate.

0:19:23.741,0:19:27.966
Brazil and Equador 90.4 and 91.6

0:19:27.966,0:19:35.824
Palestine 95.3. That's the Westbank and the[br]Gaza Strip. My best guess, if you would include

0:19:35.824,0:19:39.212
the diaspora that number would go significantly up.

0:19:39.212,0:19:41.362
Because the diaspora tends to be well educated.

0:19:41.362,0:19:45.242
That means that this lesson [br]that my father gave me is a lesson that

0:19:45.242,0:19:50.446
clearly Palestinians have been receiving for[br]years if not decades.

0:19:50.446,0:19:54.252
They're intelligent people, they're well educated.

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They're living under occupation and they want to[br]see a change.

0:20:00.242,0:20:03.730
So, we've started all of the same things [br]that you would expect.

0:20:03.730,0:20:09.052
We started of course replacing all of our servers [br]with Apache based

0:20:09.052,0:20:11.041
if any of them were ever on Windows.

0:20:11.041,0:20:16.000
We've started of course using backends for [br]our contact management systems, like

0:20:16.000,0:20:17.918
Joomla and Drupal.

0:20:17.918,0:20:20.532
Of course, we started doing those things.

0:20:20.532,0:20:23.956
In terms of the infrastructure that's more or less[br]the step where we are.

0:20:23.956,0:20:29.597
We are at infrastructural components rather[br]then desktops.

0:20:29.597,0:20:34.619
We have a very nascent EMR, [br]that will be coming up hopefully soon.

0:20:34.619,0:20:43.827
And we expect that this EMR will leverage at the[br]best of what we have and what we see.

0:20:43.827,0:20:50.224
However there is something else that's interessing[br]a response to the necessity we have in Palestine.

0:20:50.224,0:20:55.833
We learned that lesson from people, decorating[br]their shoes, submerging their computers

0:20:55.833,0:21:03.066
from Novenas and homemade [br]chicken CT scanners.

0:21:03.066,0:21:09.215
And what we started doing is making our [br]own hardware as well.

0:21:09.215,0:21:16.448
I believe that the Gaza Strip is the first place[br]that is trying a national level strategy for

0:21:16.448,0:21:19.823
open source hardware and is pushing it hard.

0:21:19.823,0:21:28.787
We saw 3D printers, we saw how they worked.[br]We wanted our own and we got them.

0:21:28.787,0:21:32.499
Leftmost is the very first 3D printer ever[br]made in Gaza.

0:21:32.499,0:21:38.025
In the middle and the next one are their children.[br]Made entirely in Gaza.

0:21:38.025,0:21:42.651
Some of the electronics have to come in,[br]all of the motors are salvaged from garbage.

0:21:42.651,0:21:47.404
We expect that within a year, we'll be able to[br]make everything domestically.

0:21:47.404,0:21:51.478
That's our hope and that's our dream and[br]I think we can get there.

0:21:51.478,0:21:55.225
Of course my own work has been to make [br]medical devices.

0:21:55.225,0:21:56.727
That's where I've been leveraging them.

0:21:56.727,0:21:58.605
This is a stethoscope, a very early version.

0:21:58.605,0:22:03.217
This is the final version as of 3 weeks ago[br]approved by Health Canada.

0:22:03.217,0:22:08.039
This is a first world medical device, [br]that is available for pennies.

0:22:08.039,0:22:17.970
<i>applause</i>

0:22:17.970,0:22:21.277
2 Dollars and 50 Cents to replace [br]a 300 Dollar stethoscope.

0:22:21.277,0:22:25.321
It's not that people have 300 Dollar stethoscope[br]running around, I said they had nothing.

0:22:25.321,0:22:28.136
Now they have something.

0:22:28.136,0:22:31.055
It's been with the help of Kliment, who you will[br]recognise from around here and

0:22:31.055,0:22:32.933
Jenn who you will recognise from here

0:22:32.933,0:22:39.568
and some engineers, who I can't really show,[br]because I fear for their safety.

0:22:39.568,0:22:43.337
Our Palestinians, the heros, [br]the real heros of this work.

0:22:43.337,0:22:49.293
And as you can see here from a frequency-audio[br]response curve, it's as good as anything out there.

0:22:49.293,0:22:55.178
We're working next on a pulse oximeter with the[br]help of really talented engineer Hanan Anis

0:22:55.178,0:23:01.674
from University of Ottawa. And that should be [br]ready by the middle of next year.

0:23:01.674,0:23:06.229
Surgical tools will be forthcoming, because[br]right now in Gaza we're washing everything

0:23:06.229,0:23:08.110
with salt water.[br]

0:23:08.110,0:23:15.799
And prostetics are coming, we hope.[br]Lots of issues there, but not technical.

0:23:15.799,0:23:23.836
We have this origin story for the commons, as [br]so the commons was something from the past.

0:23:23.836,0:23:26.750
That was there and then now it's gone.

0:23:26.750,0:23:30.023
But that origin story, I think, is a myth.

0:23:30.023,0:23:34.440
And when we recognise, that the commons[br]are actually an evolution of where we are

0:23:34.440,0:23:38.125
rather than somewhere that we were before,[br]we trying to reclaim.

0:23:38.125,0:23:43.451
Then I think the next step is trying to[br]figure out, how to get back there.

0:23:43.451,0:23:49.344
At that's what we are trying to do in Palestine.[br]How do we get back there?

0:23:49.344,0:23:55.625
The biggest way is to break down those borders[br]and blockades and share information.

0:23:55.625,0:24:03.950
And so, I want to invite you, all of you[br]to come with me to Gaza

0:24:03.950,0:24:11.814
In May for the first international Free and [br]Open Source Health Conference.

0:24:11.814,0:24:18.388
Where we will discuss these ideas[br]and where we will try to move forward

0:24:18.388,0:24:22.623
the commons. If the anti commons[br]is generally funded by

0:24:22.623,0:24:26.954
military industrial complex, as we see within[br]Silicon Valley and so on,

0:24:26.954,0:24:31.972
then maybe this commons can be funded[br]by the ever green spending

0:24:31.972,0:24:35.514
that we always have in health care.

0:24:35.514,0:24:40.088
Health care is one of the biggest spends[br]in the Gaza Strip.

0:24:40.088,0:24:47.444
And if we direct it in the right places we can also [br]use it to develop our national sovereignty.

0:24:47.444,0:24:53.090
Join me, in whatever where you can.

0:24:53.090,0:24:56.601
And let's make it more sovereign[br]better place.

0:24:56.601,0:24:58.800
For Gaza and for everywhere else.

0:24:58.800,0:25:00.282
Thank you.

0:25:00.282,0:25:12.117
<i>applause</i>

0:25:12.117,0:25:18.874
Herald: Thank you for the talk.[br]And we have about 5 min for questions.

0:25:18.874,0:25:27.124
So please if you have any questions line up [br]in front of one of the microphones.

0:25:31.866,0:25:33.488
Please!

0:25:33.488,0:25:40.838
Question: I would like to know, how did you [br]distribute your open source instruments.

0:25:40.838,0:25:47.886
Is it also possible for other countries that have[br]the same problems as in Palestinian areas

0:25:47.886,0:25:49.595
to get those?

0:25:49.595,0:25:55.409
Tarek: Yes, absolutely. One thing we don't do[br]is give medical devices.[br]

0:25:55.409,0:25:59.989
Anybody who's interested, and there have been[br]few ministry to ministry contacts on this,

0:25:59.989,0:26:05.219
is basically encouraged to start up their own[br]fundamentally fab lab.

0:26:05.219,0:26:11.713
So, what we do is, we go into a country, talk to their[br]engineers, engineering departments and so on,

0:26:11.713,0:26:17.341
and we try to get them up and running, [br]so that they're manufacturing their own stuff.

0:26:17.341,0:26:24.207
This means anybody who's tried to start an open[br]source project or free and open source project

0:26:24.207,0:26:26.735
will know that the more contributors the better.

0:26:26.735,0:26:28.266
You don't want consumers.

0:26:28.266,0:26:30.428
You want people, who are participating.

0:26:30.428,0:26:35.675
And so anybody who wants to... it's under an open[br]source licence. The open hardware licence.

0:26:35.675,0:26:39.800
And actually it's also cross licenced to GPLv3.

0:26:39.800,0:26:45.390
Please take it. It would be my privilege to see it [br]in the news everywhere else. It really would be.

0:26:45.390,0:26:50.675
Everybody who's working on it, wants to see that.

0:26:55.515,0:27:01.948
Herald: OK, thank you very much again and see[br]you at the next talk, enjoy the rest of the conference.

0:27:01.948,0:27:06.351
Oh, wait we have a question from the internet[br]it seems.

0:27:06.351,0:27:11.313
Question: What would be the solution to Palestine?

0:27:15.063,0:27:20.411
Tarek: I don't think you need to worry about the[br]occupation. I think that's the question.

0:27:20.411,0:27:23.471
Don't worry about the occupation.

0:27:23.471,0:27:26.891
The occupation is a little bit like a marathon.

0:27:26.891,0:27:30.696
You have to keep working, we see the end though.

0:27:30.696,0:27:33.874
The Palestinian will take care of their own freedom.

0:27:33.874,0:27:35.569
You don't need to worry about that one.

0:27:35.569,0:27:41.449
All you need to do as much as possible,[br]is try to not participate within the occupation.

0:27:41.449,0:27:47.291
Now, I travel through Israel and nobody, who [br]travels through Israel is allowed to endorse

0:27:47.291,0:27:52.928
the boycott divestment and sanctions campaign,[br]because that would be illegal and would mean

0:27:52.928,0:27:54.614
I could not travel through Israel.

0:27:54.614,0:27:58.572
However some people consider it to be a[br]nonviolent way of participating against

0:27:58.572,0:28:01.736
the occupation.[br]

0:28:01.736,0:28:06.942
Now, what we do need to do is figure out[br]what happens the day after occupation

0:28:06.942,0:28:15.887
that's what worries me. For example there is[br]a Coca Cola bottling company being built

0:28:15.887,0:28:22.288
in the Gaza Strip. Why? It's going to use more[br]water than the entire Gaza Strip has available to it.

0:28:22.288,0:28:27.200
More concrete than in all of the construction[br]projects. Why?

0:28:27.200,0:28:30.722
Because they are looking for the day after[br]occupation.

0:28:30.722,0:28:34.911
And what I don't want is for Palestine to turn[br]into South Africa.[br]

0:28:34.911,0:28:41.923
Beautiful dreams, excellent vision and you [br]loose the war the day after the occupation ends.

0:28:41.923,0:28:45.510
That's why we have to encourage[br]these democratic institutions.

0:28:45.510,0:28:50.612
That's why we have to participate in these, I guess[br]essentually like chaos based

0:28:50.612,0:28:55.696
anarchist based collectives, that are going to move[br]forward the democratic process there

0:28:55.696,0:28:59.509
and everywhere else.

0:28:59.509,0:29:05.409
<i>applause</i>

0:29:05.409,0:29:11.149
Herald: So we have time for one final question.[br]The microphone at the right please.

0:29:11.149,0:29:16.374
Question: The big one. Can you say something [br]about the interface between open medical devices

0:29:16.374,0:29:23.090
and regulation? So in Europe most of the stuff is[br]public or a lot of it is public, so you have two layers

0:29:23.090,0:29:27.649
of regulation: one is what devices you're authorised[br]to use and operating on the human body.

0:29:27.649,0:29:31.848
The other one is how you're authorised[br]to buy the stuff,

0:29:31.848,0:29:35.617
so procurement regulation is very, very rigid[br]in some European countries

0:29:35.617,0:29:41.032
in term of medical devices. Most of the stuff[br]would be illegal.

0:29:41.032,0:29:46.169
Tarek: It was very important for us, the project[br]wasn't, you know, people have made stethoscopes

0:29:46.169,0:29:51.115
and actually a lot of people told me this. They[br]said, your's isn't the first 3D printed stethoscope.

0:29:51.115,0:29:53.622
I made one, we made one, whatever it is.

0:29:53.622,0:29:57.460
And it is true, we are not nearly the first[br]3D printed stethoscope.

0:29:57.460,0:30:05.282
We are the first validated and now Health Canada[br]approved 3D printed stethoscope.

0:30:05.282,0:30:13.183
I think that these regulations are actually[br]a good thing, because the population is

0:30:13.183,0:30:16.575
an incredibly vulnerable population [br]on the other side.

0:30:16.575,0:30:20.701
We see a lots of experiments being run on poor,[br]disenfranchised people.

0:30:20.701,0:30:23.154
It happens in the first world.[br]Think Tuskegee and

0:30:23.154,0:30:25.750
similar things are happening today.

0:30:25.750,0:30:31.796
It happens in the third world,[br]think Nestle and such projects.

0:30:31.796,0:30:34.825
So I think the regulations are a good thing.

0:30:34.825,0:30:39.363
The FDA, you know, probably not. It's very [br]expensive, very hard to get through.

0:30:39.363,0:30:44.907
But it's not taxing to get through[br]reasonable regulatory bodies, like Health Canada.

0:30:44.907,0:30:51.099
I myself don't object. What I see in the Gaza Strip[br]is people there want to know

0:30:51.099,0:30:55.513
that they're not receiving garbage. So they're[br]asking for these regulatory approvals.

0:30:55.513,0:31:01.961
The Gaza Strip will not use expired medical[br]devices, that people, you know well-wishers and

0:31:01.961,0:31:06.962
some hospital in the first world that decided[br]I like rather throw this away in the Gaza Strip

0:31:06.962,0:31:10.443
than throw this away in the garbage.[br]No we don't want that.

0:31:10.443,0:31:15.627
There is a dignity as well that has to be provided.[br]And that dignity comes with the same standards

0:31:15.627,0:31:20.786
being met in the third world as in the first world

0:31:20.786,0:31:26.538
Herald: OK, thank you very much. Unfortunately[br]we are out of time, but I hope you enjoy the

0:31:26.538,0:31:29.565
rest of the congress and see you at the next talk.

0:31:29.565,0:31:33.989
<i>postroll music</i>

0:31:33.989,0:31:41.000
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