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Pat Mitchell: Your first time back on the TEDWomen stage.

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Sheryl Sandberg: First time back. Nice to see everyone. It's always so nice to look out

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and see so many women.

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It's so not my regular experience, 
as I know anyone else's.

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PM: So when we first started talking about, maybe the subject wouldn't be social media,

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which we assumed it would be, but 
that you had very much on your mind

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the missing leadership positions, particularly 
in the sector of technology and social media.

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But how did that evolve for you as a thought, and end up being the TED Talk that you gave?

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So I was really scared to get on 
this stage and talk about women,

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because I grew up in the business 
world, as I think so many of us did.

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You never talk about being a woman, because 
someone might notice that you're a woman, right?

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They might notice. Or worse, if you say "woman," 
people on the other end of the table

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think you're asking for special 
treatment, or complaining.

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Or worse, about to sue them. 
And so I went through -- (Laughter)

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Right? I went through my entire business career,

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and never spoke about being a woman, 
never spoke about it publicly.

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But I also had noticed that it wasn't working.

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I came out of college over 
20 years ago, and I thought

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that all of my peers were men and women, 
all the people above me were all men,

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but that would change,

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because your generation had done such 
an amazing job fighting for equality,

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equality was now ours for the taking. And it wasn't.

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Because year after year, I was one of fewer and fewer,

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and now, often the only woman in a room.

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And I talked to a bunch of people about,

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should I give a speech at TEDWomen 
about women, and they said, oh no, no.

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It will end your business career. You 
cannot be a serious business executive

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and speak about being a woman. 
You'll never be taken seriously again.

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But fortunately, there were the few, the proud -- like you -- who told me I should give the speech,

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and I asked myself the question 
Mark Zuckerberg might --

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the founder of Facebook and my boss --

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asks all of us, which is what 
would I do if I wasn't afraid?

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And the answer to what would I do if I wasn't 
afraid is I would get on the TED stage,

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and talk about women, and leadership. 
And I did, and survived. (Applause)

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PM: I would say, not only survived. 
I'm thinking of that moment, Sheryl,

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when you and I were standing backstage 
together, and you turned to me,

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and you told me a story.

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And I said -- very last minute -- you know, 
you really should share that story.

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SS: Oh, yeah.
PM: What was that story?

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SS: Well, it's an important part of the 
journey. So I had -- TEDWomen --

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the original one was in D.C. -- so I live here, 
so I had gotten on a plane the day before,

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and my daughter was three, she was 
clinging to my leg: "Mommy, don't go."

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And Pat's a friend, and so, not related 
to the speech I was planning on giving,

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which was chock full of facts and 
figures, and nothing personal,

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I told Pat the story. I said, well, 
I'm having a hard day.

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Yesterday my daughter was clinging 
to my leg, and "Don't go."

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And you looked at me and said, 
you have to tell that story.

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I said, on the TED stage? Are you kidding?

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I'm going to get on a stage and admit 
my daughter was clinging to my leg?

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And you said yes, because if you want to talk 
about getting more women into leadership roles,

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you have to be honest about how hard it is.

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And I did. And I think that's a really 
important part of the journey.

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The same thing happened when I wrote my book. 
I started writing the book. I wrote a first chapter,

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I thought it was fabulous. It was 
chock-full of data and figures,

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I had three pages on matrilineal Maasai 
tribes, and their sociological patterns.

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My husband read it and he was like, this 
is like eating your Wheaties. (Laughter)

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No one -- and I apologize to Wheaties if there's 
someone -- no one, no one will read this book.

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And I realized through the process that I 
had to be more honest and more open,

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and I had to tell my stories. My stories of still 
not feeling as self-confident as I should,

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in many situations. My first and 
failed marriage. Crying at work.

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Felling like I didn't belong there, 
feeling guilty to this day.

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And part of my journey, starting on this stage, 
going to "Lean In," going to the foundation,

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is all about being more open and 
honest about those challenges,

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so that other women can be more open and honest,

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and all of us can work together towards real equality.

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PM: I think that one of the most 
striking parts about the book,

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and in my opinion, one of the reasons it's hit such 
a nerve and is resonating around the world,

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is that you are personal in the book, 
and that you do make it clear that,

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while you've observed some things that are 
very important for other women to know,

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that you've had the same challenges 
that many others of us have,

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as you faced the hurdles and the barriers and 
possibly the people who don't believe the same.

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So talk about that process: deciding 
you'd go public with the private part,

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and then you would also put yourself in 
the position of something of an expert

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on how to resolve those challenges.

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SS: After I did the TED Talk, what happened was --

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you know, I never really expected to write 
a book, I'm not an author, I'm not a writer,

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and it was viewed a lot, and it really 
started impacting people's lives.

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I got this great --- one of the first 
letters I got was from a woman

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who said that she was offered a really big 
promotion at work, and she turned it down,

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and she told her best friend she turned 
it down, and her best friend said,

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you really need to watch this TED Talk.

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And so she watched this TED Talk, and she 
went back the next day, she took the job,

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she went home, and she handed her 
husband the grocery list. (Laughter)

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And she said, I can do this.

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And what really mattered to me -- it wasn't 
only women in the corporate world,

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even though I did hear from a lot of 
them, and it did impact a lot of them,

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it was also people of all different circumstances.

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There was a doctor I met who was an 
attending physician at Johns Hopkins,

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and he said that until he saw my TED 
Talk, it never really occurred to him

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that even though half the students in 
his med school classes were women,

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they weren't speaking as much as 
the men as he did his rounds.

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So he started paying attention, and as he waited for 
raised hands, he realized the men's hands were up.

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So he started encouraging the 
women to raise their hands more,

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and it still didn't work.

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So he told everyone, no more 
hand raising, I'm cold-calling.

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So he could call evenly on men and women. 
And what he proved to himself was that

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the women knew the answers just as well or better,

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and he was able to go back 
to them and tell them that.

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And then there was the woman, stay-at-home 
mom, lives in a really difficult neighborhood,

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with not a great school, she said that TED 
Talk -- she's never had a corporate job,

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but that TED Talk inspired her to go to her school 
and fight for a better teacher for her child.

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And I guess it was part of was finding my own voice.

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And I realized that other women and 
men could find their voice through it,

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which is why I went from the talk to the book.

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PM: And in the book, you not only found your 
voice, which is clear and strong in the book,

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but you also share what you've learned --

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the experiences of other people in the lessons.

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And that's what I'm thinking about 
in terms of putting yourself in a --

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you became a sort of expert in how you lean in.

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So what did that feel like, and 
become like in your life?


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To launch not just a book, not just 
a best-selling, best-viewed talk,

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but a movement, where people began to 
literally describe their actions at work as,

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I'm leaning in.

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SS: I mean, I'm grateful, I'm honored, 
I'm happy, and it's the very beginning.

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So I don't know if I'm an expert, or if anyone is 
an expert. I certainly have done a lot of research.

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I have read every study, I have 
pored over the materials,

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and the lessons are very clear. 
Because here's what we know:

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What we know is that stereotypes are holding women 
back from leadership roles all over the world.

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It's so striking. "Lean In" is very global, 
I've been all over the world,

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talking about it, and -- cultures are so different.

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Even within our own country, to Japan, 
to Korea, to China, to Asia, Europe,

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they're so different. Except for one thing: gender.

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All over the world, no matter what our cultures are,

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we think men should be strong, 
assertive, aggressive, have voice;

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we think women should speak 
when spoken to, help others.

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Now we have, all over the world,

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women are called "bossy." 
There is a word for "bossy,"

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for little girls, in every language there's one.

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It's a word that's pretty much not used for little boys,

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because if a little boy leads, 
there's no negative word for it,

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it's expected. But if a little girl leads, she's bossy.

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Now I know there aren't a lot of 
men here, but bear with me.

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If you're a man, you'll have 
to represent your gender.

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Please raise your hand if you've been 
told you're too aggressive at work.

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(Laughter) There's always a few, it runs about 
five percent. Okay, get ready, gentlemen.

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If you're a woman, please raise your hand if you've 
ever been told you're too aggressive at work.

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(Laughter) That is what audiences have 
said in every country in the world,

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and it's deeply supported by the data.

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Now, do we think women are more 
aggressive than men? Of course not.

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It's just that we judge them through a different lens,

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and a lot of the character traits that you must 
exhibit to perform at work, to get results, to lead,

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are ones that we think, in a man, he's a boss,

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and in a woman, she's bossy.

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And the good news about this is that we 
can change this by acknowledging it.

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One of the happiest moments 
I had in this whole journey is,

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after the book came out, I stood on a stage 
with John Chambers, the CEO of Cisco.

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He read the book. He stood on a stage with me, he 
invited me in front of his whole management team,

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men and women, and he said, I thought we 
were good at this. I thought I was good at this.

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And then I read this book, and I 
realized that we -- my company --

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we have called all of our 
senior women too aggressive,

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and I'm standing on this stage, and I'm sorry.

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And I want you to know we're 
never going to do it again.

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PM: Can we send that to a lot of other 
people that we know? (Applause)

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SS: And so John is doing that because 
he believes it's good for his company,

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and so this kind of acknowledgement 
of these biases can change it.

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And so next time you all see 
someone call a little girl "bossy,"

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you walk right up to that person, 
big smile, and you say,

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"That little girl's not bossy. That little girl has 
executive leadership skills." (Laughter)

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PM: I know that's what you're telling your daughter. 
SS: Absolutely.

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PM: And you did focus in the book -- and 
the reason, as you said, in writing it,

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was to create a dialogue about this.

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I mean, let's just put it out there, 
face the fact that women are --

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in a time when we have more open 
doors, and more opportunities --

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are still not getting to the leadership positions.

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So in the months that have come since the book,

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in which "Lean In" focused on that and said,

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here are some of the challenges that remain, and 
many of them we have to own within ourselves

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and look at ourselves. What has changed?

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Have you seen changes?

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SS: Well, there's certainly more 
dialogue, which is great.

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But what really matters to me, 
and I think all of us, is action.

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So everywhere I go, CEOs, 
they're mostly men, say to me,

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you're costing me so much money

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because all the women want to 
be paid as much as the men.

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And to them I say, I'm not sorry at all. (Laughter)

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At all. I mean, the women should 
be paid as much as the men.

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Everywhere I go, women tell me they ask for raises.

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Everywhere I go, women say they're getting 
better relationships with their spouses,

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asking for more help at home, asking for the 
promotions they should be getting at work,

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and importantly, believing it 
themselves. Even little things.

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One of the governors of one of the states told me 
that he didn't realize that more women were, in fact,

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literally sitting on the side 
of the room, which they are,

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and now he made a rule that all the women 
on his staff need to sit at the table.

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The foundation I started along 
with the book "Lean In"

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helps women, or men, start circles -- small groups,

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it can be 10, it can be however many 
you want, which meet once a month.

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I would have hoped that by now, we'd have 
about 500 circles. That would've been great.

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You know, 500 times roughly 10.

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There are over 12,000 circles 
in 50 countries in the world.

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PM: Wow, that's amazing.

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SS: And these are people who 
are meeting every single month.

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I met one of them, I was in Beijing.

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A group of women, they're all about 29 or 30, 
they started the first Lean In circle in Beijing,

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several of them grew up in very poor, rural China.

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These women are 29, they are told by 
their society that they are "left over,"

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because they are not yet married,

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and the process of coming together 
once a month at a meeting

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is helping them define who they are for themselves.

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What they want in their careers. The 
kind of partners they want, if at all.

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I looked at them, we went around 
and introduced ourselves,

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and they all said their names 
and where they're from,

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and I said, I'm Sheryl Sandberg, 
and this was my dream.

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And I kind of just started crying.

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Right, which, I admit, I do. Right? 
I've talked about it before.

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But the fact that a woman so far away out in 
the world, who grew up in a rural village,

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who's being told to marry someone 
she doesn't want to marry,

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can now go meet once a month with 
a group of people and refuse that,

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and find life on her own terms.

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That's the kind of change we have to hope for.

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PM: Have you been surprised by 
the global nature of the message?


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Because I think when the book first 
came out, many people thought,

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well, this is a really important handbook 
for young women on their way up.

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They need to look at this, anticipate 
the barriers, and recognize them,

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put them out in the open, have the dialogue about it,

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but that it's really for women who are that. 
Doing that. Pursuing the corporate world.

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And yet the book is being read, as you 
say, in rural and developing countries.

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What part of that has surprised you, and 
perhaps led to a new perspective on your part?

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SS: The book is about self-confidence, 
and about equality.

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And it turns out, everywhere in the world, 
women need more self-confidence,

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because the world tell us we're not equal to men.

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Everywhere in the world, we live in 
a world where the men get "and,"

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and women get "or."

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I've never met a man who's been 
asked how he does it all. (Laughter)

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Again, I'm going to turn to the men in the audience:

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Please raise your hand if you've 
been asked, how do you do it all?

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(Laughter)

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Men only.

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Women, women. Please raise your hand 
if you've been asked how you do it all?

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We assume men can do it all, 
slash -- have jobs and children.

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We assume women can't, and that's ridiculous,

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because the great majority of women everywhere 
in the world, including the United States,

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work full time and have children.

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And I think people don't fully understand 
how broad the message is.

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There is a circle that's been started 
for rescued sex workers in Miami.

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They're using "Lean In" to help 
people make the transition

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back to what would be a fair life, really rescuing 
them from their pimps, and using it.

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There are dress-for-success groups 
in Texas which are using the book,

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for women who have never been to college.

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And we know there are groups 
all the way to Ethiopia.

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And so these messages of equality -- of how women 
are told they can't have what men can have --

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how we assume that leadership is for men, 
how we assume that voice is for men,

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these affect all of us, and I 
think they are very universal.

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And it's part of what TEDWomen does.

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It unites all of us in a cause we have to believe in,

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which is more women, more voice, more equality.

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PM: If you were invited now to 
make another TEDWomen talk,

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what would you say that is a result 
of this experience, for you personally,

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and what you've learned about women, and men,

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as you've made this journey?

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SS: I think I would say -- I tried to say this strongly,

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but I think I can say it more strongly --

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I want to say that the status quo is not enough.

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That it's not good enough, that it's 
not changing quickly enough.

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Since I gave my TED Talk and published my book, 
another year of data came out from the U.S. Census.

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And you know what we found?

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No movement in the wage gap 
for women in the United States.

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Seventy-seven cents to the dollar.

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If you are a black woman, 64 cents.

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If you are a Latina, we're at 54 cents.

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Do you know when the last 
time those numbers went up?

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2002.

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We are stagnating, we are 
stagnating in so many ways.

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And I think we are not really being honest about that,

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for so many reasons. It's so 
hard to talk about gender.

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We shy away from the word "feminist," 
a word I really think we need to embrace.

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We have to get rid of the 
word bossy and bring back --

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(Applause)

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I think I would say in a louder voice, 
we need to get rid of the word "bossy"

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and bring back the word "feminist," 
because we need it.

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(Applause)

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PM: And we all need to do a lot more leaning in.

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SS: A lot more leaning in.

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PM: Thank you, Sheryl.

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Thanks for leaning in and saying yes.

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SS: Thank you.

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(Applause)