0:00:00.598,0:00:03.271 Pat Mitchell: Your first time back on the TEDWomen stage. 0:00:03.271,0:00:06.214 Sheryl Sandberg: First time back. Nice to see everyone. It's always so nice to look out 0:00:06.214,0:00:08.132 and see so many women. 0:00:08.132,0:00:13.262 It's so not my regular experience, as I know anyone else's 0:00:13.262,0:00:18.654 PM: So when we first started talking about maybe the subject wouldn't be social media, 0:00:18.654,0:00:23.310 which we assumed it would be, but that you had very much on your mind 0:00:23.310,0:00:30.464 the missing leadership positions, particularly in the sector of technology and social media. 0:00:30.464,0:00:37.238 But how did that evolve for you as a thought, and end up being the TED Talk that you gave? 0:00:37.238,0:00:39.656 SS: So I was really scared to get on this stage and talk about women, 0:00:39.656,0:00:43.461 because I grew up in the business world, as I think so many of us do, 0:00:43.461,0:00:49.793 you never talk about being a woman, because someone might notice that you're a woman, right? 0:00:49.793,0:00:53.615 They might notice. Or worse, if you say "woman", people on the other end of the table 0:00:53.615,0:00:57.043 think you're asking for special treatment, or complaining, 0:00:57.043,0:01:00.751 or worse, about to sue them. And so I went through -- (laughter) 0:01:00.751,0:01:04.617 Right? I went through my entire business career, and never spoke about being a woman, 0:01:04.617,0:01:09.460 never spoke about it publicly. But I also had noticed that it wasn't working. 0:01:09.460,0:01:13.638 I came out of college over 20 years ago, and I thought that you know, look, 0:01:13.638,0:01:17.593 all of my peers were men and women, all the people above me were all men, but that would change, 0:01:17.593,0:01:22.429 because your generation had done such an amazing job fighting for equality, 0:01:22.429,0:01:26.041 equality was now ours for the taking. And it wasn't. 0:01:26.041,0:01:29.540 Because year after year, I was one of fewer and fewer, and now, 0:01:29.540,0:01:33.280 often the only woman in a room. And I talked to a bunch of people about, 0:01:33.280,0:01:36.839 should I give a speech at TEDWomen about women, and they said, oh no, no. 0:01:36.839,0:01:42.033 It will end your business career. You cannot be a serious business executive 0:01:42.033,0:01:45.226 and speak about being a woman. You'll never be taken seriously again. 0:01:45.226,0:01:50.346 But fortunately, there were the few, the proud -- like you -- who told me I should give this speech, 0:01:50.346,0:01:53.002 and I asked myself the question Mark Zuckerberg might -- 0:01:53.002,0:01:54.840 the founder of Facebook and, you know, my boss -- 0:01:54.840,0:01:59.419 asked all of us, which is what would I do if I wasn't afraid? 0:01:59.419,0:02:03.227 And the answer to what would I do if I wasn't afraid is I would get on the TED stage, 0:02:03.241,0:02:10.746 and talk about women, and leadership. And I did, and survived. (applause) 0:02:10.746,0:02:14.581 PM: I would say, not only survived. I'm thinking of that moment, Sheryl, 0:02:14.581,0:02:18.914 when you and I were standing backstage together, and you turned to me, 0:02:18.914,0:02:20.652 and you told me a story. 0:02:20.652,0:02:24.531 And I said -- very last minute -- you know, you really should share that story. 0:02:24.531,0:02:25.343 SS: Oh, yeah. 0:02:25.343,0:02:26.275 PM: What was that story? 0:02:26.275,0:02:29.546 SS: Well, it's an important part of the journey. So I had -- TEDWomen -- 0:02:29.546,0:02:33.355 the original one was in DC -- so I live here, so I had gotten on a plane the day before 0:02:33.355,0:02:38.404 and my daughter was three, she was clinging to my leg, "Mommy, don't go." 0:02:38.404,0:02:41.830 And Pat's a friend, and so, not related to the speech I was planning on giving, 0:02:41.830,0:02:46.599 which was chock full of facts and figures, and nothing personal, 0:02:46.599,0:02:50.691 I told Pat the story. I said, well, I'm having a hard day. Yesterday my daughter was clinging to my leg, 0:02:50.691,0:02:53.045 and "don't go." And you looked at me and said, 0:02:53.045,0:02:57.448 you have to tell that story. I said, on the TED stage? Are you kidding? 0:02:57.448,0:02:59.937 I'm going to get on a stage and admit my daughter was clinging to my leg? 0:02:59.937,0:03:04.072 And you said yes, because if you want to talk about getting more women into leadership roles, 0:03:04.072,0:03:07.209 you have to be honest about how hard it is. 0:03:07.209,0:03:11.945 And I did. And I think that's a really important part of the journey. 0:03:11.945,0:03:17.243 The same thing happened when I wrote my book. I started writing the book. I wrote a first chapter, 0:03:17.243,0:03:21.209 I thought it was fabulous. It was chock-full of data and figures, 0:03:21.209,0:03:27.419 I had three pages on matrilineal Masai tribes, and what the patterns are of their -- 0:03:27.419,0:03:30.270 their sociological patterns -- my husband read it. 0:03:30.270,0:03:34.132 And he was like, this is like eating your Wheaties. 0:03:34.132,0:03:41.497 No one -- and I apologize to Wheaties if there's someone -- no one, no one will read this book. 0:03:41.497,0:03:45.682 And I realized through the process that I had to be more honest and more open, 0:03:45.682,0:03:50.428 and I had to tell my stories. My stories of still not feeling as self-confident as I should, 0:03:50.428,0:03:56.647 in many situations. My first and failed marriage. Crying at work. 0:03:56.647,0:04:00.319 Felling like I didn't belong there, feeling guilty to this day. 0:04:00.319,0:04:04.714 And part of my journey, starting on this stage, going to Lean In, going to the foundation, 0:04:04.714,0:04:08.602 is all about being more open and honest about those challenges, 0:04:08.602,0:04:10.610 so that other women can be more open, honest, 0:04:10.610,0:04:14.242 and all of us can work together towards real equality. 0:04:14.242,0:04:17.584 PM: I think that one of the most striking parts about the book, 0:04:17.584,0:04:23.449 and in my opinion, one of the reasons it's hit such a nerve and is resonating around the world, 0:04:23.449,0:04:29.234 is that you are personal in the book, and that you do make it clear that, 0:04:29.234,0:04:33.392 while you've observed some things that are very important for other women to know, 0:04:33.392,0:04:37.951 that you've had the same challenges that many others of us have, 0:04:37.951,0:04:44.746 as you faced the hurdles and the barriers and possibly the people who don't believe the same. 0:04:44.746,0:04:49.384 So talk about that process: deciding you go public with the private part, 0:04:49.384,0:04:53.101 and then you would also put yourself in the position of something of an expert 0:04:53.101,0:04:56.681 on how to resolve those challenges. 0:04:56.681,0:04:58.588 SS: After I did the TED Talk, what happened was -- 0:04:58.588,0:05:02.474 you know, I never really expected to write a book, I'm not an author, I'm not a writer, 0:05:02.474,0:05:07.143 and it was viewed a lot, and it really started impacting people's lives. 0:05:07.143,0:05:10.663 I got this great --- one of the first letters I got was from a woman 0:05:10.663,0:05:15.789 who said that she was offered a really big promotion at work, and she turned it down, 0:05:15.789,0:05:18.142 and she told her best friend she turned it down, and her best friend said 0:05:18.142,0:05:19.975 you really need to watch this TED Talk. 0:05:19.975,0:05:24.391 And so she watched this TED Talk, and she went back the next day, she took the job, 0:05:24.391,0:05:29.239 she went home, and she handed her husband the grocery list. (laughter) 0:05:29.239,0:05:30.831 And she said, I can do this. 0:05:30.831,0:05:33.646 And what really mattered to me -- it wasn't only women in the corporate world, 0:05:33.646,0:05:36.954 even though I did hear from a lot of them, and it did impact a lot of them, 0:05:36.954,0:05:40.784 it was also people of all different circumstancecs. 0:05:40.784,0:05:44.531 There was a doctor I met who was an attending physician at Johns Hopkins, 0:05:44.531,0:05:48.124 and he said that until he saw my TED Talk, it never really occurred to him 0:05:48.124,0:05:50.375 that even though half the students in his med school classes were women, 0:05:50.375,0:05:53.409 they weren't speaking as much as the men as he did his rounds. 0:05:53.409,0:05:59.635 So he started paying attention, and as he waited for raised hands, he realized the men's hands were up. 0:05:59.635,0:06:01.920 So he started encouraging the women to raise their hands more, 0:06:01.920,0:06:03.197 and it still didn't work. 0:06:03.197,0:06:07.351 So he told everyone, no more hand raising, I'm cold-calling. 0:06:07.351,0:06:10.955 So he could call evenly on men and women. And what he proved to himself was that 0:06:10.955,0:06:13.588 the women knew the answers just as well or better, 0:06:13.588,0:06:16.354 and he was able to go back to them and tell them that. And then, you know, 0:06:16.354,0:06:20.595 there was the woman, stay-at-home mom, lives in a really difficult neighborhood, 0:06:20.595,0:06:24.631 with not a great school, she said that TED Talk -- she's never had a corporate job, 0:06:24.631,0:06:30.406 but that TED Talk inspired her to go to her school and fight for a better teacher for her child. 0:06:30.406,0:06:34.698 And I guess was part of finding my own voice. 0:06:34.698,0:06:38.752 And I realize that other women and men could find their voice through it, 0:06:38.752,0:06:41.474 which is why I went from the talk to the book. 0:06:41.474,0:06:47.799 PM: And in the book, you not only found your voice, which is clear and strong in the book, 0:06:47.799,0:06:52.025 but you also share what you've learned -- 0:06:52.025,0:06:54.506 the experiences of other people in the lessons. 0:06:54.506,0:06:58.688 And that's what I'm thinking about in terms of putting yourself in a -- 0:06:58.688,0:07:03.642 you became a sort of expert in how you lean in. 0:07:03.642,0:07:08.034 So what did that feel like, and become like in your life?[br] 0:07:08.034,0:07:14.246 To launch not just a book, not just a best-selling, best-viewed talk, 0:07:14.246,0:07:20.090 but a movement, where people began to literally describe their actions at work as 0:07:20.090,0:07:22.772 I'm leaning in. 0:07:22.772,0:07:29.986 SS: I mean, I'm grateful, I'm honored, I'm happy, and it's the very beginning. 0:07:29.986,0:07:34.500 So I don't know if I'm an expert, or if anyone is an expert. I certainly have done a lot of research. 0:07:34.500,0:07:37.421 I have read every study, I have pored over the materials, 0:07:37.421,0:07:41.341 and the lessons are very clear. Because here's what we know: 0:07:41.341,0:07:46.053 what we know is that stereotypes are holding women back from leadership roles all over the world. 0:07:46.053,0:07:48.656 It's so striking. Lean In's very global, I've been all over the world, 0:07:48.656,0:07:51.051 talking about it, and -- cultures are so different. 0:07:51.051,0:07:55.891 Even within our own country, to Japan, to Korea, to China, to Asia, Europe, 0:07:55.891,0:08:00.231 they' re so different. Except for one thing: gender. 0:08:00.231,0:08:02.151 All over the world, no matter what our cultures are, 0:08:02.151,0:08:06.481 we think men should be strong, assertive, aggressive, have voice, 0:08:06.481,0:08:10.998 we think women should speak when spoken to, help others. 0:08:10.998,0:08:14.703 Now we have, all over the world, 0:08:14.703,0:08:18.496 women are called "bossy." There is a word for "bossy," 0:08:18.496,0:08:20.814 for little girls, in every language there's one. 0:08:20.814,0:08:23.024 It's a word that's pretty much not used for little boys, 0:08:23.024,0:08:26.506 because if a little boy leads, there's no negative word for it, 0:08:26.506,0:08:30.741 it's expected. But if a little girl leads, she's bossy. 0:08:30.741,0:08:32.736 Now I know there aren't a lot of men here, but bear with me. 0:08:32.736,0:08:35.270 If you're a man, you'll have to represent your gender. 0:08:35.270,0:08:41.171 Please raise your hand if you've been told you're too aggressive at work. 0:08:41.173,0:08:46.718 (laughter) There's always a few, it runs about 5%. Okay, get ready, gentlemen. 0:08:46.718,0:08:53.281 If you're a woman, please raise your hand if you've ever been told you're too aggressive at work. 0:08:53.281,0:08:56.894 (laughter) That is what audiences have said in every country in the world, 0:08:56.894,0:08:59.760 and it's deeply supported by the data. 0:08:59.760,0:09:04.099 Now, do we think women are more aggressive than men? Of course not. 0:09:04.099,0:09:06.126 It's just that we judge them through a different lens, 0:09:06.126,0:09:11.300 and a lot of the character traits that you must exhibit to perform at work, to get results, to lead, 0:09:11.300,0:09:14.164 are ones that we think, in a man, he's a boss, 0:09:14.164,0:09:15.786 and in a woman, she's bossy. 0:09:15.786,0:09:19.872 And the good news about this is that we can change this by acknowledging it. 0:09:19.872,0:09:22.262 One of the happiest moments I had in this whole journey 0:09:22.262,0:09:27.195 is, after the book came out, I stood on a stage with John Chambers, the CEO of Cisco. 0:09:27.195,0:09:30.854 He read the book. He stood on a stage with me, he invited me in front of his whole management team, 0:09:30.854,0:09:34.093 men and women, and he said, I thought we were good at this. I thought I was good at this. 0:09:34.093,0:09:39.159 And then I read this book, and I realized that we -- my company -- 0:09:39.159,0:09:41.066 we have called all of our senior women too aggressive, 0:09:41.066,0:09:43.745 and I'm standing on this stage, and I'm sorry. 0:09:43.745,0:09:47.490 And I want you to know we're never going to do it again. 0:09:47.490,0:09:47.490 I: Wow. 0:09:47.490,0:09:51.152 PM: Can we send that to a lot of other people that we know? (applause) 0:09:51.152,0:09:54.852 SS: And so John is doing that because he believes it's good for his company, 0:09:54.852,0:09:57.813 and so this kind of acknowledgement of these biases can change it. 0:09:57.829,0:10:01.477 And so next time you all see someone call a little girl "bossy," 0:10:01.477,0:10:04.025 you walk right up to that person, big smile, and you say 0:10:04.025,0:10:10.560 that little girl's not bossy. That little girl has executive leadership skills. (laughter) 0:10:10.560,0:10:13.412 PM: I know that's what you're telling your daughter. [br]SS: Absolutely. 0:10:13.412,0:10:16.834 PM: And you did focus on the book. And the reason, as you said, in writing it, 0:10:16.834,0:10:18.759 was to create a dialogue about this. 0:10:18.759,0:10:22.273 I mean, let's just put it out there, face the fact that women are -- 0:10:22.273,0:10:25.948 in a time when we have more open doors, and more opportunities, 0:10:25.948,0:10:29.248 are still not getting to the leadership positions. 0:10:29.248,0:10:31.154 So in the months that have come since the book, 0:10:31.154,0:10:34.004 in which Lean In focused on that and said, 0:10:34.004,0:10:38.612 here are some of the challenges that remain, and many of them we have to own within ourselves 0:10:38.612,0:10:41.236 and look at ourselves. What has changed? 0:10:41.236,0:10:43.245 Have you seen changes? 0:10:43.245,0:10:45.708 SS: Well, there's certainly more dialogue, which is great. 0:10:45.708,0:10:48.618 But what really matters to me, and I think all of us, is action. 0:10:48.618,0:10:51.988 So everywhere I go, CEOs, they're mostly men, say to me, 0:10:51.988,0:10:54.252 you're costing me so much money. 0:10:54.252,0:10:57.870 Because all the women want to be paid as much as the men. 0:10:57.870,0:11:00.859 And to them I say, I'm not sorry at all. (laughter) 0:11:00.859,0:11:05.650 At all. I mean, the women should be paid as much as the men. 0:11:05.650,0:11:08.910 Everywhere I go, women tell me they ask for raises. 0:11:08.910,0:11:12.953 Everywhere I go, women say they're getting better relationships with their spouses, 0:11:12.953,0:11:16.841 asking for more help at home, asking for the promotions they should be getting at work, 0:11:16.841,0:11:19.748 and importantly, believing it themselves. Even little things. 0:11:19.748,0:11:23.840 One of the governors of one of the states told me that he didn't realize that more women were, in fact, 0:11:23.840,0:11:26.284 literally sitting on the side of the room, which they are, 0:11:26.284,0:11:30.756 and now he made a rule that all the women on his staff need to sit at the table. 0:11:30.756,0:11:33.666 The foundation I started along with the book Lean In 0:11:33.666,0:11:37.111 helps women, or men, start circles -- small groups, 0:11:37.142,0:11:39.651 it can be 10, it can be however you want, which meet once a month. 0:11:39.651,0:11:43.742 I would have hoped that by now, we'd have about 500 circles. That would've been great. 0:11:43.742,0:11:46.557 You know, 500 times roughly 10. 0:11:46.557,0:11:50.109 There are over 12,000 circles in 50 countries in the world. 0:11:50.109,0:11:51.284 PM: Wow, that's amazing. 0:11:51.284,0:11:54.498 SS: And these are people who are meeting every single month. 0:11:54.498,0:11:56.961 I met one of them, I was in Beijing. 0:11:56.961,0:12:01.322 A group of women, they're all about 29 or 30, they started the first Lean In circle in Beijing, 0:12:01.322,0:12:05.146 several of them grew up in very poor, rural China. 0:12:05.146,0:12:11.416 These women are 29, they are told by their society that they are "left over," 0:12:11.416,0:12:13.412 because they are not yet married, 0:12:13.412,0:12:16.919 and the process of coming together once a month at a meeting 0:12:16.919,0:12:19.342 is helping them define who they are for themselves. 0:12:19.342,0:12:22.155 What they want in their careers. The kind of partners they want, if at all. 0:12:22.155,0:12:25.973 I looked at them, we went around and introduced ourselves, 0:12:25.973,0:12:27.674 and they all said their names and where they're from, 0:12:27.674,0:12:31.154 and I said, I'm Sheryl Sandberg, and this was my dream. 0:12:31.154,0:12:33.274 And I kind of just started crying. 0:12:33.274,0:12:34.194 PM: Right. 0:12:34.194,0:12:36.858 SS: Which, I admit, I do. Right? I've talked about it before. 0:12:36.858,0:12:42.151 But the fact that a woman so far away out in the world, who grew up in a rural village, 0:12:42.151,0:12:45.816 who's being told to marry someone she doesn't want to marry, 0:12:45.816,0:12:49.384 can now go meet once a month with a group of people and refuse that, 0:12:49.384,0:12:52.286 and find life on her own terms. 0:12:52.286,0:12:54.305 That's the kind of change we have to hope for. 0:12:54.305,0:12:57.837 PM: Have you been surprised by the global nature of the message?[br] 0:12:57.837,0:13:00.865 Because I think when the book first came out, many people thought, 0:13:00.865,0:13:04.616 well, this is a really important handbook for young women on their way up. 0:13:04.616,0:13:08.962 They need to look at this, anticipate the barriers, and recognize them, 0:13:08.962,0:13:11.734 put them out in the open, have the dialogue about it, 0:13:11.734,0:13:16.807 but that it's really for women who are that. Doing that. Pursuing the corporate world. 0:13:16.807,0:13:20.848 And yet the book is being read, as you say, in rural and developing countries. 0:13:20.848,0:13:21.791 SS: Yeah. 0:13:21.791,0:13:27.730 PM: What part of that has surprised you, and perhaps led to a new perspective on your part? 0:13:27.730,0:13:31.515 SS: The book is about self-confidence, and about equality. 0:13:31.515,0:13:35.571 And it turns out, everywhere in the world, women need more self-confidence, 0:13:35.571,0:13:37.744 because the world tell us we're not equal to men. 0:13:37.744,0:13:41.203 Everywhere in the world, we live in a world where the men get "and," 0:13:41.203,0:13:42.746 and women get "or." 0:13:42.746,0:13:46.112 I've never met a man who's been asked how he does it all. (laughter) 0:13:46.112,0:13:49.402 Again, I'm going to turn to the men in the audience: 0:13:49.402,0:13:52.126 please raise your hand if you've been asked, how do you do it all? 0:13:52.126,0:13:53.898 (laughter) 0:13:53.898,0:13:55.283 Men only. 0:13:55.283,0:13:59.407 Women, women. Please raise your hand if you've been asked how you do it all? 0:13:59.407,0:14:06.396 We assume men can do it all, slash -- have jobs and children. 0:14:06.396,0:14:08.344 We assume women can't, and that's ridiculous, 0:14:08.344,0:14:12.290 because the great majority of women everywhere in the world, including the United States, 0:14:12.290,0:14:14.139 work full time and have children. 0:14:14.139,0:14:19.327 And I think people don't fully understand how broad the message is. 0:14:19.327,0:14:23.827 There is a circle that's been started for rescued sex workers in Miami. 0:14:23.827,0:14:28.286 They're using Lean In to help people make the transition 0:14:28.286,0:14:33.257 back to what would be a fair life, really rescuing them from their pimps, and using it. 0:14:33.257,0:14:37.530 There are dress-for-success groups in Texas which are using the book, 0:14:37.530,0:14:39.282 for women who have never been to college. 0:14:39.282,0:14:43.147 And we know there are groups all the way to Ethiopia. 0:14:43.147,0:14:48.815 And so these messages of equality -- of how women are told they can't have what men can have -- 0:14:48.815,0:14:53.278 how we assume that leadership is for men, how we assume that voice is for men, 0:14:53.278,0:14:56.724 these affect all of us, and I think they are very universal. 0:14:56.724,0:14:58.278 And it's part of what TED Women does. 0:14:58.278,0:15:02.183 It unities all of us in a cause we have to believe in, 0:15:02.183,0:15:06.170 which is more women, more voice, more equality. 0:15:06.170,0:15:12.920 PM: If you were invited now to make another TEDWomen talk, 0:15:12.920,0:15:18.230 what would you say that is a result of this experience, for you personally, 0:15:18.230,0:15:20.895 and what you've learned about women, and men, 0:15:20.895,0:15:22.720 as you've made this journey? 0:15:22.720,0:15:27.602 SS: I think I would say -- I tried to say this strongly, 0:15:27.602,0:15:30.472 but I think I can say it more strongly -- 0:15:30.472,0:15:33.383 I want to say that the status quo is not enough. 0:15:33.383,0:15:36.349 That it's not good enough, that it's not changing quickly enough. 0:15:36.349,0:15:41.536 Since I gave my TED Talk and published my book, another year of data came out from the U.S. Census. 0:15:41.536,0:15:43.880 And you know what we found? 0:15:43.880,0:15:45.888 No movement in the wage gap for women in the United States. 0:15:45.888,0:15:48.617 77 cents to the dollar. 0:15:48.617,0:15:50.759 If you are a black woman, 64 cents. 0:15:50.759,0:15:53.790 If you are a Latina, we're at 54 cents. 0:15:53.790,0:15:55.479 Do you know when the last time those numbers went up? 0:15:55.479,0:15:57.959 2002. 0:15:57.959,0:16:02.748 We are stagnating, we are stagnating in so many ways. 0:16:02.748,0:16:05.572 And I think we are not really being honest about that, 0:16:05.572,0:16:08.724 for so many reasons. It's so hard to talk about gender. 0:16:08.724,0:16:12.512 We shy away from the word "feminist," a word I really think we need to embrace. 0:16:12.512,0:16:15.918 We have to get rid of the word bossy and bring back -- 0:16:15.918,0:16:19.124 (applause) 0:16:19.124,0:16:23.278 I think I would say in a louder voice, we need to get rid of the word "bossy" 0:16:23.278,0:16:25.791 and bring back the word "feminist," because we need it. 0:16:25.791,0:16:26.739 0:16:26.739,0:16:28.331 (applause and cheers) 0:16:28.331,0:16:31.652 PM: And we all need to do a lot more leaning in. 0:16:31.652,0:16:32.714 SS: A lot more leaning in. 0:16:32.714,0:16:33.652 PM: Thank you, Sheryl. 0:16:33.652,0:16:35.900 Thanks for leaning in and saying yes. 0:16:35.900,0:16:36.846 SS: Thank you. 0:16:36.846,0:16:38.899 (applause)