WEBVTT

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(Sound off till 0:39, 
actual session starts at 2:04)

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(Indistinct conversations)

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(Moderator) So we've got one hour
and a quarter.

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(confused voices)

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How do we know
when these things are going to be turned on?

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(confused voices)

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What? OK? Right.

NOTE Paragraph

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(Moderator) Ladies and Genltemen, 
can I ask everyone

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to take their seats, please?

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We're about to begin, 
so if you're visiting the bar,

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can you charge your glasses and return 
to your seats, and then we'll begin.

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We've got an hour and a quarter
for this debate.

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OK, can I -- Welcome everybody to
the Online Educa OEB debate.

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I'm not sure what number this is
in the series of debates that we've had,

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I think it may be getting up to our 10th.

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What I can tell you is that in the time
that we've been having these debates

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and that I've been chairing them, 
my eyesight has now gone so bad

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that I can't possibly read any notes
that I have without using glasses, so

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I think we must be on at least our 10th.

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What I can also tell you is that 
Online Educa itself, OEB,

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this year is celebrating 
its 21st anniversary.

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So I think that perhaps deserves
a round of applause.

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So happy birthday to Online Educa --
(Applause) -- this fantastic conference.

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And 21 years ago was a very difficult --
very different world indeed,

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when one thinks about the scale and scope
of change that there --

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that has taken place in the last 21 years.

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One statistic I was reading recently was 
that in the UK, in 1994, 21 years ago,

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there were only 67 mobile phones
per 1000 people.

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But only ten years later, in 2004,

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there were more mobiles in the UK 
than people.

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And that pattern of spread 
of mobile communications alone

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has spread across the world and 
in Africa, for instance,

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those of you who have been to 
Elearning Africa will have heard about

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the spread of mobile communications
across the African continent.

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So in terms of the scale 
of technological change,

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and the spread of that change 
across the world,

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the change in that short period of time,
in these past 21 years alone,

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has been enormous, and we heard about

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the scale of it in the opening 
plenary session this morning.

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We live in a world that is globalized,
interconnected, hyperlinked

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and that scale of change that we're 
experiencing and have experienced

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in the last 21 years, is going to
gather pace and continue.

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And all that is going to create a huge 
challenge for education and training,

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which is going to be at the heart

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of dealing with both the positive and 
negative aspects of that change.

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And that's why the motion that we're 
dealing with today, in this debate,

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is so important, and why the whole subject
of giving young people the skills

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that they need to cope with 
the challenges of this new world

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that we all are going to --
that we are creating, is so important.

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We've got four speakers, 
four panel speakers

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to open the debate this evening

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and I'm going to ask each of them 
to speak for 10 minutes,

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and then I'm going to --

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-- two of them will speak for the motion, 
obviously,and two against --

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then I will throw open the debate 
to all of you,

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but if you want to intervene
whilst they are speaking,

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because we're having 
a parliamentary-style debate,

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then you can try to intervene on them

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and if they want to take 
your intervention,

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then they can do so, but it will be
entirely up to you.

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And if they don't, then you can draw
whatever conclusions you want from that.

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But I want to ensure that 
we keep the flow going,

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so I'm not going to let you bully them
but I'm going to allow you,

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if you want to make a particular point,

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or if you want to make 
a short intervention, to do so.

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Then after they've spoken, we'll
throw open the debate to the floor

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and you can make your contribution,

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but do please realize that time 
is of the essence,

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so please try to keep it short and 
to the point, succinct.

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This is the kind of debate equivalent
of texting.

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So, no long rambling contributions,

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because I will cut you off 
if you try to do that.

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So, very short contributions, please.

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And then I'll ask each of our --
I'll ask one speaker from each side

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to sum up, and then we will take a vote,
and we'll do that by a show of hands.

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And I've also made it clear 
to all the speakers that they may

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say things that they don't necessarily 
want to be held to in the future,

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so I hope that you will understand that,

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that this is an opportunity for us 
to explore some of the issues,

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but don't take it all too seriously,

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and don't come and accuse people of saying
things that you would --

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that they might not necessarily always 
want to be held to.

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With that in mind, I'm going to ask
our first speaker, who is Jo Swinson.

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Jo Swinson, who is the former Minister
for business, innovation and skills

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in the UK's coalition government of
2010 to 2015,

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to speak first for the motion.

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And Jo, since leaving Parliament, 
has begun a new career

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and is involved in an award within
a data intelligence company

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called Clear Returns

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and she is an expert on the challenges 
and opportunities of the digital age.

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So, over to you, Jo.

NOTE Paragraph

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(Jo Swinson) Thank you very much indeed,
Harold.

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And I'm absolutely delighted to be here
in Berlin at OEB.

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A bit of a first, actually, the first
technology-related conference

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that I've been to where there is a queue
in the ladies' loos!

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I have to say I was particularly pleased 
by that, not only as a feminist,

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but also as a Brit who appreciates
the art of queuing.

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So it was good on two fronts.

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So, "This house believes that 
21st century skills aren't being taught,

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"and they should be." is the motion
that I want to convince you

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to support this evening.

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We absolutely need to be equipping
our young people,

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and indeed, people at every stage
of their lives,

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with the skills that they need 
for the 21st century.

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And our education systems, 
and our wider society,

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have an important role to play in this.

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But I will put it to you, this evening,
that when it comes to technical skills,

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when it comes to social skills,
and vitally,

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when it comes to capacity 
to embrace change,

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we are not yet rising to that challenge
sufficiently.

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There are very specific skills, 
there are gaps in science and technology

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that are not being properly filled.

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These shortages are causing
significant problems

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for businesses, for employers.

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Half of engineering companies say that
they have delayed taking forward

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new products or services, because 
they have vacancies

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that are so hard to fill, because
the skills are not there to recruit.

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Digital start-ups are often in real need
of software developers

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that they cannot find sufficiently.

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And companies of all sizes, grappling with
cybersecurity challenges

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struggle to have the skills that they need
to take on those important issues.

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As Harold mentioned, I'm now a director
of a company called Clear Returns.

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It's been going for about three years,
based in Glasgow, and uses data analytics

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to help retailers understand the problems
they have with product returns

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and therefore successfully cutting 
the costs for retailers,

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and resulting in better 
customer satisfaction.

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But in our technology team of 17 people,
there are 12 different nationalities

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and not one of those people went through
the school education system in the UK,

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because the skills are not up to scratch.

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Now, there have been some improvements
and as to 2014,

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computer science has been introduced into
the curriculum in the UK,

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but that is not the end of the matter,

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because 11% of computer science graduates
are unemployed.

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In fact, that's one of the highest 
unemployment rates

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for any subject discipline,

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at a time when we have a huge shortage
of these very skills.

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Something is going very wrong 
when that is the case.

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And this is not just about
teaching people to code.

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Fashionable though that 
undoubtedly is at the moment

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and it is necessary that we do have 
people who can code.

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But it's not some kind of silver bullet
on its own.

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Actually, it's the building blocks 
that we need to be putting in place,

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the things that lie before you get
to the point of coding,

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the logic, the basic maths, 
enhancing those skills,

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so that people can put 
those building blocks together

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and create an argument or a 
train of thought or a mathematical proof,

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or indeed, a piece of code that will
instruct a machine to do something.

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Yet our maths skills 
are also going backwards.

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A King's College, London, study found that
compared to the 1970's

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young people today are significantly less
well equipped in the field of mathematics.

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And it's also worth pointing out 
that we are missing out,

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when it comes to teaching these skills
on almost half of the population.

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Only one in five A-level physics students
is a girl.

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When it comes to computer science,
that figure drops to 1 in 10.

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Now, it's wonderful to be at 
a technology conference

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where there is a queue 
in the ladies' loos,

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but even at this conference, if you
have a look at the speakers' brochure,

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only 8 of the 35 main speakers are women,
so where are the women?

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We are missing out 
on that important talent

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who are not then getting the skills
that we need for the 21st century

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to enable all of our economies 
to flourish.

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We're also not doing well enough
at the social skills

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which have always been imported --
important,

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and I would argue, are even more so
in the context of the 21st century.

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Employers have long complained that
they get coming into the work place

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are not yet ready for work.

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I have to say there is that thing 
I've observed,

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when new graduates starting out
in the work place

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seem to be allergic to 
using the telephone

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for the purpose it was originally
designed for.

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I've lost count of the number of times
when, speaking to a member of staff

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about the particular project 
that they are trying to make happen,

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and it seems sort of stuck, and I say:

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"And what happened 
when you asked that person about it?"

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"Oh, I sent them an email and
they didn't get back to me."

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You know, for all the wonders that
technology can undoubtedly do

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in helping us in our working life, when
you want to get people to do something,

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an email is very easy to ignore, and it is
much harder to just put to one side

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a face-to-face person or contact, 
or on the telephone.

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And relationships are absolutely critical
to 21st century work places and skills:

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getting things done, collaborating in 
teams, motivating others.

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Yet when we assess children 
and young people in the education system,

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it is genuinely done 
on a pure individual basis,

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not looking at how they are actually
operating within a group setting.

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And when it comes to skills 
in terms of relationships,

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something like personal, social
and health education, which I would argue,

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is absolutely essential to help young
people learn to navigate relationships,

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and important issues like consent
when it comes to sex,

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it's not even compulsory 
in the UK curriculum.

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In a world where ultimation is increasing,

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where jobs that we've already seen through
the Industrial Revolution,

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that manual jobs have been replaced 
by machines,

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that with the next stage of technological
advancement, many, many more,

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in things like accountancy and 
professional services,

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are also going to be replaced 
by algorithms,

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the human social relationship skills
are going to be in even more demand

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and therefore deserve much more attention.

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And my final point is that we have not 
done enough to prepare people

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for the world of change.

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A little while ago, I spoke at a School
Award ceremony to 12-year olds

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And I was to explain to them 
how the world had changed

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since I was there age.

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And one of the examples I used was
the process of taking a photograph.

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And I described how, when I was 12,
you would have a thing called a camera

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that was all that it did, it was just
for taking photographs,

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you would have to get a piece of film,
physically,

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to load it into the camera machine,
you'd had to do that pretty carefully,

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because you didn't want to expose the film
and it was quite a fiddly process.

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You wouldn't know whether the photos
you were taking were any good.

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You would have to take at least 24, 
or sometimes 36,

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depending on which particular 
piece of film you put into your camera,

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before you would then take it along
to a pharmacist's or a chemist's shop,

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pay some money and then go and do
something else for a few days,

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at which point you could come back
and be presented

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with your little envelope of photographs,

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and see if any of them had turned out OK.

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And I was counting on these 12-year olds
looked at me (check)

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like I might well be lying to the,: 
this is how it worked,

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because of course these days, you know,
within a matter of seconds,

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you can take dozens of selfies 
in your phone,

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apply however many Instagram filters
you like,

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and share it with the entire world,
just without leaving the spot.

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The pace of change is accelerating hugely.

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Here in 2015, for us to consider 
what even are 21st century skills,

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is like going back to 1915 and trying
to imagine the space race, nuclear power,

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the internet, or the kind of social change
going from a situation

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where women didn't even have the vote,

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to electing a woman as Prime Minister 
in the UK,

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or the change with gay rights,

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or the ending of racial segregation
in the United States.

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We can't even conceive of all that 
the 21st century is going to bring.

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And so, more than anything, with 
this huge pace of increasing knowledge,

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more than anything, what we need to do
is equip people

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to cope with and thrive 
on change and uncertainty.

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And instead, we have bunches of kids being 
processed through the education system

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that doesn't look that different
to several decades ago.

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So we really do have a problem here,
in terms of the skills

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that we are teaching and more importantly,
not teaching well enough.

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Whether it's technical skills, 
whether it's those social skills

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or whether it's the vitally important
ability to be resilient,

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to recover from change and setbacks,

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and to apply yourself in a new way 
to a new set of challenges and horizons.

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These are the things 
we must be focusing on,

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and we aren't yet rising 
to that challenge.

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Support the motion!

NOTE Paragraph

00:18:05.840 --> 00:18:15.626
(Applause)

NOTE Paragraph

00:18:16.081 --> 00:18:18.406
(Moderator) OK, thank you very much
for that, Jo.

00:18:19.052 --> 00:18:24.908
Our next speaker, who is going to speak
against the motion, is Allan Päll,

00:18:25.297 --> 00:18:28.852
who is the Secretary General of 
the European Youth Forum,

00:18:28.852 --> 00:18:33.041
which is the representative body
for youth organisations in Europe

00:18:33.041 --> 00:18:35.400
and he is an advocate for youth's rights.

00:18:35.994 --> 00:18:41.296
He lead student unions in Estonia and
at the European level, and has advocated

00:18:41.296 --> 00:18:46.055
for students' voices to be included
in educational policy. Allan, up to you:

NOTE Paragraph

00:18:46.055 --> 00:18:48.464
(Allan Päll) All right, 
thank you very much, chair.

00:18:48.464 --> 00:18:53.489
I would like to very much support many
of the claims made by our opposition.

00:18:53.489 --> 00:18:58.041
However, when it comes to the question
and when it comes to this specific motion,

00:18:58.041 --> 00:19:03.378
this house does not believe that 
21st century skills aren't being taught,

00:19:03.378 --> 00:19:06.958
because, well, let me put it very bluntly
and very simply:

00:19:06.958 --> 00:19:13.884
the whole notion of what are 21st century
skills is often just a bunch of nonsense,

00:19:13.884 --> 00:19:16.108
if I would sum it up very briefly.

00:19:16.108 --> 00:19:18.675
But let me go into it a bit more.

00:19:18.675 --> 00:19:22.837
There are many definitions of
what these skills could be

00:19:22.837 --> 00:19:28.347
and I fully agree that they do include
everything mentioned by the opposition.

00:19:28.755 --> 00:19:32.057
However, there are many other ways
of looking at it.

00:19:32.057 --> 00:19:35.846
So if we are to say whether these are 
being taught or not,

00:19:35.846 --> 00:19:41.083
even if we have a problem of the very
definition of what these skills are,

00:19:41.083 --> 00:19:45.968
how can we say that they are 
not being taught so determinedly?

00:19:46.913 --> 00:19:52.993
Some of the elements that can be 
mentioned as 21st century skills

00:19:52.993 --> 00:19:58.632
are simple things, as critical thinking,
problem-solving, reasoning, analysis,

00:19:58.632 --> 00:20:04.394
research skills, creativity, curiosity,
perseverance, self-direction

00:20:04.394 --> 00:20:07.850
oral and written communication,
leadership,

00:20:07.850 --> 00:20:13.008
information and communication technology,
social justice, literacy,

00:20:13.008 --> 00:20:20.833
civic, ethical behavior, global awareness:
the list goes on and on and on.

00:20:20.833 --> 00:20:26.846
So, indeed, many of those things, perhaps,
are not being taught enough,

00:20:26.846 --> 00:20:30.432
or specifically enough, 
in our educational systems.

00:20:30.432 --> 00:20:35.163
But that doesn't mean that 
this is not happening.

00:20:35.166 --> 00:20:37.079
Let me ask you one simple question:

00:20:37.079 --> 00:20:41.822
If you believe that we don't acquire
many of these skills

00:20:41.822 --> 00:20:46.710
in our educational environment, 
be it in a formal setting

00:20:46.710 --> 00:20:51.190
or a socializing moment 
in your school or at university,

00:20:51.190 --> 00:20:58.523
would we actually witness the pace
of change in society that we are seeing?

00:20:58.523 --> 00:21:02.150
Almost all of us have gone through 
the educational system.

00:21:02.150 --> 00:21:07.271
So, we must get a lot of those skills
also through that.

00:21:07.503 --> 00:21:11.507
I do agree, though, 
that there is something to be said about

00:21:11.507 --> 00:21:17.118
the question of how specific are we
when we look at those skills.

00:21:17.118 --> 00:21:20.164
Because that is true that most curricula --

00:21:20.534 --> 00:21:26.311
education is very much compartmentalized
into very specific subject areas

00:21:26.311 --> 00:21:30.659
and we're seeing an increasing trend
of those subject areas becoming

00:21:30.659 --> 00:21:32.762
more and more specific.

00:21:32.762 --> 00:21:38.076
And thus indeed, there is perhaps
not enough emphasis on looking at,

00:21:38.076 --> 00:21:43.764
or thinking really about are we acquiring
all those sets of skills

00:21:43.764 --> 00:21:49.279
that are important for our socialization,
etc., our technical skills as well,

00:21:49.279 --> 00:21:51.421
as mentioned by the opposition.

00:21:51.985 --> 00:21:55.397
One of the things that I would like
to highlight is that

00:21:55.397 --> 00:21:59.911
the schools and universities, and
vocational education and training

00:21:59.911 --> 00:22:04.076
is not only about the formal 
learning outcomes

00:22:04.076 --> 00:22:07.922
that we are beginning to measure 
more and more.

00:22:07.922 --> 00:22:14.143
It is also about the social environment
at that very school or university

00:22:14.143 --> 00:22:17.671
that determines a lot of 
what education gives us.

00:22:18.274 --> 00:22:22.521
In terms of specific skills 
that were mentioned by opposition

00:22:22.521 --> 00:22:28.678
and the lack of those skills, there are
many variables perhaps to look at.

00:22:28.678 --> 00:22:32.486
Yes indeed, we are missing out 
on engineers,

00:22:32.486 --> 00:22:39.541
we are missing out on also 
staff in medical sciences, in care.

00:22:39.541 --> 00:22:41.549
We would need indeed many more people

00:22:41.549 --> 00:22:46.036
to have those qualifications, 
perhaps, indeed.

00:22:46.036 --> 00:22:49.831
But there is also a question of
what is education for

00:22:49.831 --> 00:22:53.668
and what are the requirements 
on the labor market.

00:22:53.668 --> 00:22:56.916
And those two things, 
although they interact,

00:22:56.916 --> 00:22:59.181
they move at different paces.

00:22:59.181 --> 00:23:06.257
So sometimes, we start to put blame
very easily on the education system

00:23:06.257 --> 00:23:10.200
for not delivering specific skills when, 
for example,

00:23:10.200 --> 00:23:12.560
the structure of our education

00:23:12.560 --> 00:23:15.682
-- sorry, the structure of our economy
has changed.

00:23:15.941 --> 00:23:20.286
And I think here, it's an important
remark that we need to look at

00:23:20.286 --> 00:23:23.913
different experiences 
of different countries.

00:23:24.275 --> 00:23:27.645
And you see countries where 
unemployment levels,

00:23:27.645 --> 00:23:31.039
even throughout the financial
economic crises,

00:23:31.039 --> 00:23:35.076
were record low, such as in Germany
and Austria.

00:23:35.076 --> 00:23:37.925
But if you look at youth 
unemployment figures,

00:23:37.925 --> 00:23:42.386
youth unemployment also among 
highly educated young people,

00:23:42.386 --> 00:23:48.235
in different areas, like Spain or Greece,
all around the Mediterranean,

00:23:48.235 --> 00:23:50.710
they've been staggeringly high.

00:23:50.710 --> 00:23:54.136
And it's not because 
the education systems failed,

00:23:54.136 --> 00:23:58.196
it's because the macro-economic systems
failed them there,

00:23:58.196 --> 00:24:02.359
in terms of not having enough job creation
for all those skills.

00:24:02.359 --> 00:24:07.844
And of course, there is something
to be said that when we train people

00:24:07.844 --> 00:24:10.996
and when we train minds 
to think critically,

00:24:10.996 --> 00:24:16.038
to come up with new and innovative ideas,
we also change the world through that.

00:24:16.038 --> 00:24:19.200
So, we need to understand 
that interaction.

00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:24.273
but certainly, when we look at 
21st century skills, well,

00:24:24.273 --> 00:24:28.914
if we are to define them with this broad
set of lists that I noted,

00:24:28.914 --> 00:24:33.975
we certainly are gaining those skills,
but perhaps, not specifically

00:24:33.975 --> 00:24:37.045
and not enough: that, we could agree.

00:24:37.990 --> 00:24:40.885
When it comes to preparedness for change,

00:24:40.885 --> 00:24:46.036
when are we ever prepared 
for the change to come, one might wonder.

00:24:46.696 --> 00:24:51.043
Indeed, things, technologically, 
are changing very fast.

00:24:51.043 --> 00:24:55.706
And maybe our educational systems
are not embracing that technology

00:24:55.706 --> 00:24:58.106
at the same pace.

00:24:58.106 --> 00:25:01.631
But that doesn't mean that 
if we would embrace

00:25:01.631 --> 00:25:06.562
the use of that technology very quickly,
that it would enhance immediately

00:25:06.562 --> 00:25:10.560
the skills that we can describe as
21st century skills,

00:25:10.560 --> 00:25:13.683
such as, for example, critical thinking.

00:25:13.683 --> 00:25:15.517
There are many advocates that say

00:25:15.517 --> 00:25:19.640
that we need to replace 
subject matter teaching completely

00:25:19.640 --> 00:25:22.469
with horizontal level approaches.

00:25:22.469 --> 00:25:23.705
But that doesn't work.

00:25:23.705 --> 00:25:28.479
If we don't know the facts, how do we know
that we are on the right path

00:25:28.479 --> 00:25:33.289
with our decisions, how can we know
what really happened in the past,

00:25:33.289 --> 00:25:36.648
and not, how can we verify what is true?

00:25:36.648 --> 00:25:41.481
So when we look at the skills, we need
to look at the evidences

00:25:41.481 --> 00:25:45.792
in terms of teaching preparedness 
and pedagogy.

00:25:45.792 --> 00:25:49.376
And yes, we agree: there is a lot 
to be done there

00:25:49.376 --> 00:25:55.527
in terms of measuring those essential
skills of socialization and communication,

00:25:55.527 --> 00:26:00.133
building relationships, and it is true 
that around, it's estimated,

00:26:00.133 --> 00:26:03.993
around 50% of jobs in the service sector

00:26:03.993 --> 00:26:09.275
are about to disappear in the next 
20 years and transform, hopefully,

00:26:09.275 --> 00:26:11.476
into something completely new.

00:26:11.476 --> 00:26:19.198
Finally, indeed, those skills, 
we can all agree,

00:26:19.198 --> 00:26:20.434
we need those skills.

00:26:21.074 --> 00:26:24.849
But there is an important element
of young people,

00:26:24.849 --> 00:26:28.067
and this is a study that we have done
in the European Youth Forum,

00:26:28.067 --> 00:26:34.725
that they gain a lot of those skills also
outside, in non-formal education settings.

00:26:34.725 --> 00:26:39.162
And the key here is to see if we can bring
those experiences

00:26:39.162 --> 00:26:42.382
that young people gain from youth 
organizations, activism,

00:26:42.382 --> 00:26:47.061
into the formal education setting, 
and thus make it much more open

00:26:47.061 --> 00:26:53.790
to recognizing those prior experiences
as well, to overcome this shortage.

00:26:53.790 --> 00:26:54.909
Thank you very much.

NOTE Paragraph

00:26:54.909 --> 00:27:02.481
(Applause)

NOTE Paragraph

00:27:02.481 --> 00:27:04.074
(Moderator) Thank you very much, Allan.

00:27:04.074 --> 00:27:09.186
Our next speaker who is going to speak
for the motion is Pedro De Bruyckere

00:27:10.434 --> 00:27:13.593
who is an educational scientist

00:27:13.593 --> 00:27:17.806
and he has worked in Ghent in Belgium 
since 2001.

00:27:17.806 --> 00:27:23.932
He co-wrote two books which debunk
popular myths on generation Y

00:27:23.932 --> 00:27:25.501
and generation Z,

00:27:25.501 --> 00:27:30.513
and the latest one was entitled 
"I was 10 in 2015". Pedro:

NOTE Paragraph

00:27:31.483 --> 00:27:34.230
(Pedro De Bruyckere) OK. Good evening.

00:27:34.230 --> 00:27:38.397
I'm a teacher, I'm a teacher trainer,
so I'm not used to standing still.

00:27:38.397 --> 00:27:41.796
So if you don't mind, I will move.

00:27:42.474 --> 00:27:46.220
Allan, thank you very much for
making my point.

00:27:46.810 --> 00:27:50.846
I have to explain: I have to agree,
I've written a book about it,

00:27:50.846 --> 00:27:54.557
there's no such thing 
as 21st century skills.

00:27:55.171 --> 00:27:57.355
And that's why they need to be taught.

00:27:58.164 --> 00:27:59.357
I have to explain this.

00:27:59.357 --> 00:28:05.561
You know, if we go back in time, to see
the origins of the 21st century skills,

00:28:05.561 --> 00:28:09.846
you'll end up with the liberal arts,
the Septem Artes Liberales.

00:28:10.329 --> 00:28:14.915
Rhetoric, what we are doing right here,
that's for me ancient history,

00:28:14.915 --> 00:28:16.239
but still needed today.

00:28:17.023 --> 00:28:21.267
But the question is, 
is this still being taught in school?

00:28:21.576 --> 00:28:27.271
Because, like ....... (check name) says,
moreover we get a focus on the Three R's

00:28:28.080 --> 00:28:30.639
-- Reading, 'Riting, 'Rithmetics --

00:28:30.639 --> 00:28:35.042
while most of the young people are
looking to Snapchats.

00:28:35.734 --> 00:28:41.542
But because of the focus, 
because we want to test stuff,

00:28:42.759 --> 00:28:46.077
the more important things 
are being forgotten!

00:28:46.637 --> 00:28:50.231
Rhetoric, philosophy, for me, crucial.

00:28:51.616 --> 00:28:54.493
To be honest, then, you don't have to look
at Ancient Times,

00:28:54.493 --> 00:28:56.562
than you have to look at Medieval Times,

00:28:56.562 --> 00:28:59.810
because then philosophy was added
to the Liberal Arts.

00:29:00.303 --> 00:29:03.999
So we need to train our children 
because it's great to say:

00:29:03.999 --> 00:29:05.990
"Look at us: we've done it."

00:29:06.468 --> 00:29:11.905
Yes, but we are not talking about us,
because in 20 years' time, they will --

00:29:11.905 --> 00:29:18.068
we will be old, boring and 
other people need to sit there

00:29:18.068 --> 00:29:22.237
and beyond stage, using rhetoric.

00:29:22.237 --> 00:29:24.162
So we need to prepare them.

00:29:25.016 --> 00:29:27.265
I'm not sure if we're doing a great job.

00:29:29.414 --> 00:29:31.662
For instance, if we talk about technology,

00:29:31.662 --> 00:29:35.361
technology is often like sex ed
in education.

00:29:35.361 --> 00:29:38.107
You know, you talk about 
all the dangerous stuff

00:29:38.497 --> 00:29:41.719
and you never talk about the fun stuff.

00:29:43.837 --> 00:29:47.392
You know, it's very simple:

00:29:47.392 --> 00:29:54.239
"Don't do this, don't do that,
certainly don't try that! Go ahead!"

00:29:55.709 --> 00:30:00.401
And another -- for instance, McKinsey,
the McKinsey report, 2014 McKinsey report,

00:30:00.401 --> 00:30:03.559
said there is
-- and I agree again with you both --

00:30:03.559 --> 00:30:04.762
there is a mismatch.

00:30:04.762 --> 00:30:08.241
There is a mismatch between 
what children study in school

00:30:08.241 --> 00:30:11.599
and which topics they choose,
and what we need in the economy.

00:30:12.069 --> 00:30:17.348
But at the same time, the employers said:

00:30:17.348 --> 00:30:21.671
"You know, don't train them 
to a specific job

00:30:21.671 --> 00:30:26.911
"but train them in strategic 
and communication skills."

00:30:27.748 --> 00:30:32.041
OK, they have been around for ages
but they are still important.

00:30:32.639 --> 00:30:35.869
But what do we do, for instance,
in many schools?

00:30:35.869 --> 00:30:39.322
I've been in schools in Holland, 
in Germany, in --

00:30:39.322 --> 00:30:44.106
you know, we teach them how to write
a job application.

00:30:44.419 --> 00:30:49.477
We teach them how to perform
a talk for a job.

00:30:49.477 --> 00:30:53.781
Do we teach them to write 
a LinkedIn profile?

00:30:53.781 --> 00:30:57.618
No, what we say is "Never post
a drunk photo on Facebook,

00:30:58.152 --> 00:31:01.299
"because people will search you."

00:31:01.299 --> 00:31:03.219
What we don't say is:

00:31:03.219 --> 00:31:07.206
"You know what? Post something good 
about yourself on Facebook,

00:31:07.206 --> 00:31:09.092
"that isn't a selfie."

00:31:09.596 --> 00:31:11.843
But we think well, they will do this.

00:31:12.221 --> 00:31:15.451
Actually, for instance research by
Jan van Dek (check):

00:31:15.451 --> 00:31:19.235
that's one of the stuff 
that our kids don't know.

00:31:19.235 --> 00:31:22.162
And if we don't teach them, who will?

00:31:23.033 --> 00:31:28.225
So that's my point: we need to teach them
basic skills like Jo said:

00:31:28.225 --> 00:31:30.796
communication skills, strategic skills.

00:31:30.796 --> 00:31:35.785
And if you want to call them
21st century skills because, by accident,

00:31:35.785 --> 00:31:39.680
we're living in the 21st century,
so be it.

00:31:39.680 --> 00:31:42.078
(Applause)
Thank you.

NOTE Paragraph

00:31:42.078 --> 00:31:49.682
(Applause)

NOTE Paragraph

00:31:50.211 --> 00:31:52.629
(Moderator) OK, 
thank you very much, Pedro.

00:31:53.086 --> 00:31:59.099
Our final speaker who is going to speak
against the motion is Miles Berry,

00:31:59.099 --> 00:32:02.846
who is the principal lecturer 
in computing education

00:32:02.846 --> 00:32:06.624
at the University of Roehampton in the UK:
Miles.

NOTE Paragraph

00:32:07.104 --> 00:32:09.122
(Miles Berry) Pleasure to be here,
really is.

00:32:09.521 --> 00:32:12.251
Philip and Gudrun, where are you guys?

00:32:13.073 --> 00:32:15.322
OK, on the Twitter thing you say:

00:32:15.322 --> 00:32:18.883
"We need to talk about what the purpose
of education is, what is education for?"

00:32:18.883 --> 00:32:20.385
And that's where I want to start.

00:32:20.385 --> 00:32:24.565
I want to move back from the motion, 
to think about what education is for.

00:32:24.872 --> 00:32:28.342
And to do that, we need some understanding
of what education is.

00:32:28.882 --> 00:32:32.668
I've been in education 
for over 40 years now.

00:32:32.907 --> 00:32:35.239
But even so, I checked.

00:32:35.239 --> 00:32:40.947
It's the culture or development
of personal knowledge, or understanding,

00:32:41.401 --> 00:32:46.426
growth or character, 
moral and social qualities, etc.,

00:32:46.712 --> 00:32:50.708
as contrasting with 
the imparting of a skill.

00:32:51.045 --> 00:32:53.319
(blurred: check) ... is

00:32:53.319 --> 00:32:58.540
OK, there's definitely a place 
for imparting skills,

00:32:58.920 --> 00:33:03.904
but that's training, not education,
and there is a difference.

00:33:03.904 --> 00:33:08.720
My Roehampton students study education,
but they are trained to teach.

00:33:09.320 --> 00:33:13.058
England's new computing curriculum
educates people about the principles,

00:33:13.058 --> 00:33:18.406
the principles of computer science:
(inaudible: check), I tell you.

00:33:18.406 --> 00:33:22.026
(laughter) ... technology, I think 
the technology ran on me tonight,

00:33:22.026 --> 00:33:23.446
it's all right I'll give it...

00:33:23.446 --> 00:33:25.368
(off) (unintelligible)

00:33:25.368 --> 00:33:31.306
(Berry) 21st century skill 
-- on knowledge -- (laughter)

00:33:31.306 --> 00:33:35.036
Knowledge that these things are the wrong
shape for my head: never mind.

00:33:35.036 --> 00:33:38.605
OK, so: England's new computing curriculum
that Jo has alluded to

00:33:38.605 --> 00:33:41.957
educates people about the principles
of computer science,

00:33:41.957 --> 00:33:44.684
whereas we used to train them 
to use Office software.

00:33:44.684 --> 00:33:46.066
Or think about sex.

00:33:46.066 --> 00:33:51.606
Look, not like that: we rightly include
sex education on the curriculum in schools

00:33:51.606 --> 00:33:59.856
but we typically don't include training.
(Laughter) Important skills.

00:34:02.541 --> 00:34:07.153
Do without the microphones. 
(Laughter) ... very well.

00:34:08.640 --> 00:34:13.000
In England, our Education Act says
what education is for.

00:34:13.550 --> 00:34:18.277
Firstly, it's to promote the spiritual,
moral, cultural, mental and physical

00:34:18.277 --> 00:34:21.120
development of pupils and of society.

00:34:21.468 --> 00:34:24.669
And it's to prepare pupils 
for the opportunities, responsibilities

00:34:24.669 --> 00:34:27.020
and experiences of later life.

00:34:27.403 --> 00:34:30.700
What else could education possibly be for?

00:34:30.700 --> 00:34:33.763
In that, you just got to love laws
that require you to do

00:34:33.763 --> 00:34:35.911
what you'd want to do anyhow.

00:34:36.372 --> 00:34:39.835
There does remain a question about
how best to prepare pupils

00:34:39.835 --> 00:34:42.641
for these opportunities, responsibilities
and experiences.

00:34:43.079 --> 00:34:48.538
I think the nob of the motion this evening
is about whether this should be done

00:34:48.538 --> 00:34:51.799
through some sort of training
in 21st century skills

00:34:52.153 --> 00:34:56.831
or by passing on the knowledge, 
understanding and wisdom

00:34:56.831 --> 00:35:01.265
of our generation to the next and I'd say,
the latter.

00:35:01.650 --> 00:35:05.992
I've no problem with skills per se
in teaching.

00:35:05.992 --> 00:35:09.669
Behavior management is a skill,
coding is a skill,

00:35:09.669 --> 00:35:13.224
so is searching for things on Google,
or even Bing.

00:35:13.552 --> 00:35:17.912
OK. I've some problem, though, with the
notion that there are 21st century skills

00:35:17.912 --> 00:35:20.033
and I'd agree with you on that.

00:35:20.033 --> 00:35:24.074
But both of you have done a fine job
of demolishing that notion already.

00:35:24.635 --> 00:35:29.837
I've also some problem with the skills --
with the notion that skills can transfer.

00:35:30.318 --> 00:35:33.468
Skills are about accomplishing something.

00:35:33.943 --> 00:35:36.644
There's a context to the skills,

00:35:36.644 --> 00:35:41.278
and I think we diminish specific skills
by attempting to generalize them.

00:35:41.575 --> 00:35:47.409
It isn't critical thinking, 
it's thinking critically about something.

00:35:47.737 --> 00:35:52.561
It's not creativity, 
it's creating something.

00:35:52.561 --> 00:35:54.238
And it's not communication,

00:35:54.238 --> 00:35:58.218
it's communicating something
through some media.

00:35:58.683 --> 00:36:00.915
The 'something' here matters.

00:36:01.388 --> 00:36:06.712
It's really not possible to teach skills
in the abstract fashion, without context.

00:36:06.712 --> 00:36:08.942
And the context is king.

00:36:09.495 --> 00:36:11.366
Whatever the specific domain,

00:36:11.755 --> 00:36:16.316
knowledge of that domain is necessary
for expert skills.

00:36:17.353 --> 00:36:21.341
My main problem, though, is that
we've only a little time in school.

00:36:21.341 --> 00:36:25.677
We've other things to teach and
our students have other things to learn:

00:36:25.677 --> 00:36:27.372
things like knowledge

00:36:27.782 --> 00:36:29.185
and understanding

00:36:29.489 --> 00:36:30.647
and wisdom.

00:36:31.059 --> 00:36:36.797
Without these, skills are unlikely to be
of much practical benefit.

00:36:37.258 --> 00:36:38.846
Stephen Downes is here.

00:36:39.564 --> 00:36:45.162
Well, nodding in his direction, I'd say,
learning is about connecting things:

00:36:45.162 --> 00:36:47.504
neurons, ideas, people.

00:36:47.504 --> 00:36:49.009
The computer scientists get this,

00:36:49.009 --> 00:36:54.554
Google's page rank algorithm relies
not so much on the content of the page,

00:36:54.554 --> 00:36:56.709
as the links between the pages.

00:36:57.052 --> 00:37:01.844
The thing is then, the new stuff has to be
connected to something.

00:37:01.844 --> 00:37:05.280
Otherwise, it's just isolated factoids.

00:37:05.280 --> 00:37:08.755
We can't make sense of it, 
we can't use new knowledge

00:37:09.055 --> 00:37:14.356
unless it's integrated into our existing
mental maps, our schema.

00:37:14.667 --> 00:37:18.678
Put simply: it takes knowledge
to gain knowledge.

00:37:19.268 --> 00:37:25.268
This apples to each of us as individuals,
but it's also how civilization grows.

00:37:25.628 --> 00:37:27.727
Human achievement is a cumulative thing.

00:37:27.727 --> 00:37:31.621
New knowledge doesn't normally contradict
what's gone before.

00:37:32.211 --> 00:37:33.752
It builds on it.

00:37:33.752 --> 00:37:35.880
If Newton saw further than others had,

00:37:35.880 --> 00:37:39.123
it was because he stood 
on the shoulders of giants.

00:37:39.757 --> 00:37:42.098
What hope would there be 
for the next generation

00:37:42.098 --> 00:37:45.715
if they had to discover everything 
afresh for themselves?

00:37:46.250 --> 00:37:48.937
The consequence of our building
on what's gone before

00:37:48.937 --> 00:37:52.072
is that the pace of cultural, scientific
and technological change

00:37:52.072 --> 00:37:54.712
accelerates exponentially.

00:37:55.027 --> 00:38:00.210
But even allowing for this acceleration
is knowledge, understanding and wisdom

00:38:00.210 --> 00:38:02.191
which have done the test of time.

00:38:02.191 --> 00:38:04.391
Less so, skills.

00:38:04.391 --> 00:38:09.673
Expect new inventions and discoveries
over the next 85 years

00:38:09.673 --> 00:38:12.562
and new practical skills to go with them.

00:38:12.881 --> 00:38:17.799
But don't expect the foundational 
shared knowledge of our civilization

00:38:17.799 --> 00:38:19.446
to become irrelevant.

00:38:19.916 --> 00:38:24.206
Indeed, it's on this very foundation
that the new knowledge will be built.

00:38:24.716 --> 00:38:28.729
It's not 21st century skills 
that young people need.

00:38:28.729 --> 00:38:32.312
It's 21st century knowledge, understanding
and wisdom.

00:38:33.048 --> 00:38:35.991
Time, I think, for a quick case study.

00:38:36.674 --> 00:38:40.159
The most successful education systems
and the top universities

00:38:40.159 --> 00:38:44.917
seem to organize their curriculum
around well knowledge-based subjects.

00:38:44.917 --> 00:38:50.430
England's new National Curriculum is
quite explicitly a knowledge-based one.

00:38:50.430 --> 00:38:54.354
It sets out to provide pupils with 
an introduction to the essential knowledge

00:38:54.354 --> 00:38:56.287
they need to be educated as citizens,

00:38:56.287 --> 00:39:00.401
and to introduce them to the best
which has been thought and said.

00:39:00.840 --> 00:39:03.777
One of the most radical things we've done
in that curriculum,

00:39:03.777 --> 00:39:06.149
which many see as rather reactionary,

00:39:06.149 --> 00:39:10.146
is to have replaced the old ICT 
with a new subject: computing.

00:39:10.713 --> 00:39:13.549
This includes an introduction 
to the principles of computer science

00:39:13.549 --> 00:39:15.179
for all, from age 5 up.

00:39:15.179 --> 00:39:16.996
It has been my privilege 
to be part of the team

00:39:16.996 --> 00:39:19.287
designing and implementing
the new subject.

00:39:19.602 --> 00:39:23.151
Under the old curriculum we offered
a good grounding in tech skills,

00:39:23.151 --> 00:39:25.408
finding this online, 
making a presentation,

00:39:25.408 --> 00:39:27.616
typing up stories, articles and reports.

00:39:27.616 --> 00:39:33.045
Sometimes, even making a spreadsheet,
often about having a party.

00:39:33.708 --> 00:39:36.558
Do people really use spreadsheets
to plan parties?

00:39:36.805 --> 00:39:40.933
Are these fun parties? Are these 
-- OK (laughs)

00:39:41.502 --> 00:39:44.624
It was fine: pupils moved on to work
or the next phase of education

00:39:44.624 --> 00:39:46.725
with some competence and confidence

00:39:47.119 --> 00:39:49.768
and broadly speaking, were
digitally literate.

00:39:50.214 --> 00:39:52.091
Our audit of new students 
at Roehampton's

00:39:52.091 --> 00:39:54.525
suggests that broad portfolio skills,
(check)

00:39:54.525 --> 00:39:58.103
two thirds regarded themselves as 
competent, proficient or experts.

00:39:58.485 --> 00:40:02.478
That said, it was all too often 
a bit -- well, dull.

00:40:03.034 --> 00:40:05.912
There's a limit, or at least 
there should be a limit

00:40:05.912 --> 00:40:08.274
to the number of times you can 
find something out on the internet

00:40:08.274 --> 00:40:10.132
and make a presentation about it.

00:40:10.132 --> 00:40:13.995
Generally, it did precious little 
to provide any real knowledge

00:40:13.995 --> 00:40:18.957
or understanding of computation, 
information theory or digital technology.

00:40:19.327 --> 00:40:24.242
In the same audit, less than 15%
of my new students

00:40:24.242 --> 00:40:27.243
rated their understanding of 
digital technology

00:40:27.243 --> 00:40:29.792
as competent, proficient or expert.

00:40:30.092 --> 00:40:31.478
So we started again.

00:40:31.478 --> 00:40:33.933
We built on the idea of computing
as having three elements:

00:40:33.933 --> 00:40:37.165
computer science, information technology
and digital literacy,

00:40:37.165 --> 00:40:41.200
the foundations, applications and
implications of the discipline.

00:40:41.200 --> 00:40:43.469
We took a leaf out of 
William Morris's book:

00:40:43.469 --> 00:40:46.732
"Have nothing in your house that
you do not know to be useful

00:40:46.732 --> 00:40:48.488
"or believe to be beautiful."

00:40:48.488 --> 00:40:51.997
And built a curriculum of things 
that would be useful,

00:40:51.997 --> 00:40:54.510
but also things that were interesting.

00:40:54.510 --> 00:40:57.647
We took a view that the best way 
to prepare pupils for a future

00:40:57.647 --> 00:41:02.708
in which digital technology looks 
quite likely to remain important

00:41:02.708 --> 00:41:06.400
was through providing a firm
computer science foundation,

00:41:06.735 --> 00:41:12.440
things like logic, algorithms, 
abstraction, networks, programming.

00:41:12.440 --> 00:41:19.356
Yes, coding would be important, but not
as a vocational skill for the IT industry,

00:41:19.356 --> 00:41:22.550
but as the lab work for computing, 
the medium through which

00:41:22.550 --> 00:41:25.634
the ideas of computer science are created
and expressed.

00:41:25.634 --> 00:41:29.031
Computing became part of our curriculum
15 months ago.

00:41:29.338 --> 00:41:32.670
It's early days, but early indications
are very positive.

00:41:32.995 --> 00:41:35.803
Teachers' professional development
has been a challenge.

00:41:36.325 --> 00:41:41.321
But this hasn't been a challenge about
pedagogical or technical skills.

00:41:41.585 --> 00:41:44.631
Teachers know how to teach 
and know how to use technology.

00:41:44.631 --> 00:41:47.773
It's just that they didn't know 
much computer science.

00:41:47.773 --> 00:41:49.954
They are, by and large, willing to learn,

00:41:49.954 --> 00:41:52.509
and many are quite enjoying 
the fast challenge.

00:41:53.037 --> 00:41:56.364
I don't want to leave you 
with the idea that I think

00:41:56.364 --> 00:41:59.640
knowledge is the only thing
that matters in education.

00:41:59.897 --> 00:42:03.441
Of course it isn't: character matters.

00:42:03.717 --> 00:42:06.697
I'm talking here about traits
and attitudes,

00:42:07.118 --> 00:42:15.045
things such as curiosity and creativity
and courage of our 4-year old daughter.

00:42:15.045 --> 00:42:17.357
She's a curious character.

00:42:17.357 --> 00:42:21.259
She still has this sense of 
wonder in the world about her,

00:42:21.273 --> 00:42:24.115
that sense of Wow when she sees
or hears something new,

00:42:24.115 --> 00:42:27.076
and still a willingness to explore,
experiment and play.

00:42:27.076 --> 00:42:30.404
She's at a great little primary school
and I shouldn't worry.

00:42:30.879 --> 00:42:35.162
But I do worry that her schooling 
might get in the way of her curiosity

00:42:35.699 --> 00:42:37.043
when it ought to be nurturing this.

00:42:37.043 --> 00:42:39.714
As Plowden had it back in '67,

00:42:39.714 --> 00:42:42.672
one of the main educational tasks 
of the primary school

00:42:42.672 --> 00:42:47.808
is to build on and strengthen children's
intrinsic interest in learning

00:42:47.808 --> 00:42:50.084
and lead them to learn for themselves.

NOTE Paragraph

00:42:50.413 --> 00:42:51.478
(Moderator, off) 21st century skill?

NOTE Paragraph

00:42:51.685 --> 00:42:53.501
(Berry) But knowledge matters here.

00:42:53.890 --> 00:42:58.048
It's as Sophie learns more that I hope
she'll want to learn even more.

00:42:58.479 --> 00:43:05.032
With literacy motivation, and good WiFi,
she can teach herself almost anything,

00:43:05.032 --> 00:43:06.004
and does.

00:43:06.421 --> 00:43:07.992
Creativity matters.

00:43:08.534 --> 00:43:10.673
We learn not just though listening, 
reading and exploring,

00:43:10.673 --> 00:43:12.642
but also through making.

00:43:12.932 --> 00:43:16.386
I don't think there's some generic
creativity skill, here.

00:43:16.386 --> 00:43:19.425
But I'd like my daughter to be creative
in her music and her computing

00:43:19.425 --> 00:43:21.226
and her maths, and so on.

00:43:21.543 --> 00:43:25.811
She's been making things for a while now,
but as her knowledge grows,

00:43:25.811 --> 00:43:29.705
I'm looking forward to her exploring
and drawing on that in her creative work.

00:43:29.705 --> 00:43:31.200
Finally, courage.

00:43:31.670 --> 00:43:35.300
She's a fearless explorer, with tons
of self-confidence.

NOTE Paragraph

00:43:35.300 --> 00:43:36.742
(Off whisper, inaudible)
(Berry) OK.

NOTE Paragraph

00:43:36.742 --> 00:43:38.984
I want her school to encourage that.

00:43:38.984 --> 00:43:43.080
More importantly, I want her 
to have the courage to tell the truth,

00:43:43.080 --> 00:43:46.659
to stand up for those who can't stand up
for themselves

00:43:46.659 --> 00:43:50.166
and to do the right thing, 
even if it's not the popular thing.

00:43:50.785 --> 00:43:55.666
So, what should we be doing 
to best prepare young people

00:43:55.666 --> 00:43:59.557
for the opportunities, responsibilities
and experiences of later life?

00:44:00.662 --> 00:44:02.241
Passing on knowledge.

00:44:02.681 --> 00:44:04.318
Nurturing character.

00:44:04.753 --> 00:44:06.810
Sounds a bit old-fashioned, but honestly,

00:44:06.810 --> 00:44:10.395
what better preparation 
for the rest of the 21st century?

00:44:10.645 --> 00:44:18.899
Thank you.
(Applause).

NOTE Paragraph

00:44:18.899 --> 00:44:20.669
(Moderator) Thank you very much,
Miles.

00:44:20.669 --> 00:44:26.907
Right, it's now over to you and I think
we've got about 25 minutes

00:44:26.907 --> 00:44:29.478
for questions and contributions.

00:44:29.478 --> 00:44:33.406
If you ask a question, I'm going to ask
our panel speakers

00:44:33.406 --> 00:44:36.872
not to answer it directly 
but to deal with it in their summing up,

00:44:36.872 --> 00:44:40.909
just so that we can ensure that we have
a decent flow.

00:44:41.365 --> 00:44:46.137
And if you make a contribution, please,
try to keep it fairly brief, well, brief,

00:44:46.137 --> 00:44:48.187
so that other people 
have a chance as well.

00:44:48.187 --> 00:44:50.875
And you've been very well-behaved so far.

00:44:50.875 --> 00:44:54.590
Please don't feel that you need to be
quite so well-behaved now,

00:44:54.590 --> 00:44:56.437
but now is your opportunity.

00:44:56.437 --> 00:44:59.316
If you want to speak, 
please just raise your hand.

00:44:59.316 --> 00:45:03.146
Bear in mind that if you're at the back,
it is slightly difficult to see you.

00:45:03.146 --> 00:45:05.033
And can you, if I call you,

00:45:05.033 --> 00:45:08.313
please can you just wait 
till the microphone turns up.

00:45:08.313 --> 00:45:10.195
Who'd like to go first?

00:45:13.827 --> 00:45:17.372
Would anybody like to ask a question
or comment?

00:45:17.816 --> 00:45:20.082
Yes, at the back on the left, there.

NOTE Paragraph

00:45:25.268 --> 00:45:30.726
(Participant 1) My question is short,
particularly for Allan, I think.

00:45:31.296 --> 00:45:35.797
Why are critical thinking skills
important in the 21st century?

NOTE Paragraph

00:45:39.168 --> 00:45:43.089
(Moderator, off) OK. So that's one 
for Allan to deal with in his summing up.

00:45:44.168 --> 00:45:48.607
Anybody else, any-- 
Yes, over on the right there, Yannis (check)

NOTE Paragraph

00:45:50.434 --> 00:45:51.450
(Participant 2) Thank you very much.

00:45:51.450 --> 00:45:55.044
I think both sides of the motion 
are saying it's not working.

00:45:55.654 --> 00:46:01.034
So who's to blame, who or what is to blame
or who or what must we change?

NOTE Paragraph

00:46:04.243 --> 00:46:05.951
(Moderator, off) Thank you for that.

00:46:06.503 --> 00:46:10.346
Right, I'm looking for some contributions
now, somebody who's --

00:46:10.346 --> 00:46:15.592
Yes, lady there, on the, 
just by the aisle, there.

NOTE Paragraph

00:46:15.998 --> 00:46:17.527
(Participant 3) Whoops! OK.

00:46:17.527 --> 00:46:20.156
Hi, I just have a comment to all of you.

00:46:20.507 --> 00:46:24.013
I don't see a huge difference 
between your positions,

00:46:24.013 --> 00:46:28.360
because you always seem to say,
it's important to have these,

00:46:28.683 --> 00:46:29.974
whatever you call them.

00:46:30.332 --> 00:46:35.149
Skills is a kind of a talent that you have
when you are born, or whatever.

00:46:35.149 --> 00:46:39.565
You mentioned those things are important,
so what is actually the difference?

00:46:39.565 --> 00:46:42.002
We just need to promote an environment

00:46:42.002 --> 00:46:48.587
to let people develop 
those types of skills or talents.

00:46:52.207 --> 00:46:54.969
(Moderator) Yes, also on the aisle there.

NOTE Paragraph

00:46:54.973 --> 00:46:56.821
(Participant 4) Thank you. I want to --

NOTE Paragraph

00:46:56.821 --> 00:46:59.597
(Moderator) Would you mind just introduce
yourself briefly;

00:46:59.597 --> 00:47:02.268
actually, if people would just say 
who they are and where they're from,

00:47:02.268 --> 00:47:03.763
that would be helpful as well.
(Participant 4) OK.

00:47:03.763 --> 00:47:06.825
I'm Denise Gaspard- Richard,
I'm from the University

00:47:06.825 --> 00:47:09.673
of the West Indies and Caribbean--
(Moderator) Thank you.

00:47:09.673 --> 00:47:10.870
(Participant 4) ..... Campus.

00:47:10.870 --> 00:47:16.204
The board said to me, seemed to be saying
somewhat of the same thing.

00:47:16.204 --> 00:47:18.805
As you all were speaking, 
I kept thinking

00:47:18.805 --> 00:47:21.908
about some employers' surveys 
that we have done

00:47:21.908 --> 00:47:25.149
over a period of time in the Caribbean,

00:47:25.149 --> 00:47:27.113
where the ..... (check),

00:47:27.113 --> 00:47:32.438
soft skills are not really being taught 
at University.

00:47:32.438 --> 00:47:35.893
So when a student comes out
in today work environment,

00:47:35.893 --> 00:47:38.844
they can't carry out 
a decent conversation

00:47:38.844 --> 00:47:40.587
and therefore they can't call up

00:47:40.587 --> 00:47:44.955
someone who is not getting
the kind of service that they need,

00:47:44.955 --> 00:47:49.532
they don't know how to communicate
in .............. (check) OK?

00:47:49.532 --> 00:47:54.235
So when I listened to Jo, I heard 
some of that coming out

00:47:54.235 --> 00:47:58.354
and I'm wondering if, probably, 
we have simply substituted

00:47:58.354 --> 00:48:02.992
social skills, or soft skills to call it
21st century skills.

00:48:02.992 --> 00:48:05.178
So we have more or less seen 
the same thing

00:48:05.478 --> 00:48:11.119
as we were seeing before we came up
with this terminology. Thank you.

NOTE Paragraph

00:48:12.232 --> 00:48:13.987
(Moderator) Thank you for that.
Anybody else?

00:48:13.987 --> 00:48:18.908
Yes, in the front row, there.
Just down here, please.

00:48:18.908 --> 00:48:23.594
Is there a mike here in the front row
on my right? That's it.

NOTE Paragraph

00:48:25.514 --> 00:48:27.304
(Participant 5) Thank you. 
My name is Anne DeLorean (check)

00:48:27.304 --> 00:48:29.205
from the European Schoolnet in Brussels.

00:48:29.673 --> 00:48:36.717
A comment: I think maybe we are missing
the adaptive nature of human beings,

00:48:37.356 --> 00:48:42.664
because society has progressed 
through the ages because --

00:48:42.664 --> 00:48:45.982
just because we are adaptive.

00:48:46.509 --> 00:48:51.128
We have not always had to be taught
everything we do,

00:48:51.128 --> 00:48:54.071
but we have to discover it a little bit.

00:48:54.719 --> 00:49:03.510
I think, as educators, what we need to do
is provide the -- at the area or the ethos

00:49:03.510 --> 00:49:07.094
where this discovery can happen,

00:49:07.593 --> 00:49:12.879
not necessarily that we have to provide
the lessons to do it

00:49:13.397 --> 00:49:17.354
but provide the means of discovery.

NOTE Paragraph

00:49:18.976 --> 00:49:23.792
(Moderator) Thank you. Let's have 
another one on the front, here.

00:49:24.201 --> 00:49:27.484
Lady on the front row 
on the left hand side here.

NOTE Paragraph

00:49:31.247 --> 00:49:35.048
(Participant 6) My name is Nikki Spalding,
from Higher Education Academy in the UK.

00:49:35.509 --> 00:49:38.467
I was wondering what do you think
is driving the rhetoric

00:49:39.097 --> 00:49:41.176
behind 21st century skills the most?

00:49:41.176 --> 00:49:46.522
Is it happy individuals and learners?
Happy employers? Happy society?

00:49:46.522 --> 00:49:48.716
Or happy Government Treasury?

NOTE Paragraph

00:49:51.241 --> 00:49:52.795
(Moderator) Thank you for that.

00:49:53.566 --> 00:49:57.443
Yes, towards the back there, 
on the right hand side.

NOTE Paragraph

00:50:09.776 --> 00:50:11.589
(Participant 7) Lydia .... (check),
Poland.

00:50:12.065 --> 00:50:17.018
You have concentrated on education
of young people.

00:50:17.018 --> 00:50:21.758
And what about education of people
at your age?

00:50:21.758 --> 00:50:28.840
Who and how (laugher) should you educate
these 21st century skills or knowledge?

NOTE Paragraph

00:50:29.804 --> 00:50:34.076
(Moderator) Very good question indeed.
So, we'll come back to that one.

00:50:34.076 --> 00:50:40.872
Yes, we have a number on this side, in the
-- where has the microphone gone?

00:50:40.872 --> 00:50:46.381
Yes, just at the front 
of this little block there, thank you.

NOTE Paragraph

00:50:46.381 --> 00:50:50.311
(Participant 8) Hi, my name is Mike Rauser (check), 
from McKinsey and Company in Germany.

00:50:50.670 --> 00:50:52.715
And my question is directed to Mr Berry.

00:50:53.247 --> 00:50:56.882
Where you've stressed 
teaching specific skills,

00:50:58.751 --> 00:51:01.876
please correct me if I'm wrong, about
teaching specific skills in school.

00:51:02.167 --> 00:51:05.840
How do you account for situations where

00:51:05.840 --> 00:51:09.903
a skill that may not even 
have been invented yet

00:51:09.903 --> 00:51:12.387
-- I'm thinking about say, 
from an 1980 view point,

00:51:12.707 --> 00:51:17.001
15 years in the future, that
nobody knew what the internet was.

00:51:17.001 --> 00:51:20.727
Nobody knew it was going to be in there
15 years later.

00:51:21.448 --> 00:51:23.319
OK, very limited.

00:51:26.710 --> 00:51:30.399
(Off) I think the internet 
was invented in 1969.

NOTE Paragraph

00:51:30.399 --> 00:51:34.154
(P8) (people speaking together) 
OK, I understand that, but in general--

NOTE Paragraph

00:51:34.844 --> 00:51:39.275
(Moderator) Can we -- If you could just 
try to make it a contribution

00:51:39.275 --> 00:51:42.236
and then they can respond 
in their final remarks.

NOTE Paragraph

00:51:42.241 --> 00:51:46.029
(P8) Sure enough
(Moderator) OK (overlap)

NOTE Paragraph

00:51:46.029 --> 00:51:48.817
(P8) -- that we don't know about
15 years into the future,

00:51:48.817 --> 00:51:53.107
or skills that are here now, that may
no longer be there 15 years into the future.

00:51:53.634 --> 00:51:55.437
Let's hope that's a little clearer.

NOTE Paragraph

00:51:55.437 --> 00:51:56.601
(Moderator) OK, thank you.

00:51:56.601 --> 00:52:00.444
Can I have some more contributions,
rather than questions?

00:52:00.454 --> 00:52:03.755
Anybody like to give their opinion?
Yes, on the --

00:52:04.405 --> 00:52:06.635
I think about the third row here.

NOTE Paragraph

00:52:08.835 --> 00:52:10.885
(Participant 9) So actually it's phrased
as a question,

00:52:10.885 --> 00:52:15.773
but think of it as a contribution.
(Moderator) Yes (laughter).

00:52:15.773 --> 00:52:17.987
A rhetorical contribution.

00:52:18.248 --> 00:52:24.703
(P9) So all of you have been arguing
for or against 21st century skills

00:52:24.703 --> 00:52:26.167
very convincingly.

00:52:27.795 --> 00:52:30.848
But you were always talking about
what they are,

00:52:31.437 --> 00:52:33.749
and not about what they aren't.

00:52:34.029 --> 00:52:38.241
So maybe, if the question is phrased
a bit differently,

00:52:41.607 --> 00:52:46.463
you would need to make 
a more difficult point, so:

00:52:47.190 --> 00:52:50.486
what do you think are skills that are
no longer relevant,

00:52:50.486 --> 00:52:56.517
or knowledge that is no longer relevant
now in the 21st century,

00:52:56.521 --> 00:52:59.954
and that was indeed very important
200 years ago?

NOTE Paragraph

00:53:00.385 --> 00:53:03.158
(Moderator) What would your answer
to your own question be?

NOTE Paragraph

00:53:03.164 --> 00:53:06.824
(P9) I would have to think about it.
(Moderator) Right. (Laughter)

NOTE Paragraph

00:53:08.106 --> 00:53:11.678
Right, at the -- right at the back,
we've got two hands up there.

00:53:12.248 --> 00:53:18.163
At the back, somebody with a dark-colored
jacket on -- that's it.

NOTE Paragraph

00:53:18.531 --> 00:53:20.058
(Participant 10) Mike Brown,

00:53:20.058 --> 00:53:23.035
from the National Institute 
of Digital Learning in Ireland,

00:53:23.035 --> 00:53:25.994
A question, but equally a contribution.

00:53:26.284 --> 00:53:28.420
What do you think, 
what does the panel think,

00:53:28.420 --> 00:53:31.177
22nd century skills will be?

00:53:31.177 --> 00:53:35.473
Particularly, particularly 
if we fail to achieve

00:53:35.473 --> 00:53:38.774
the post-2015 
Sustainable Development Goals?

NOTE Paragraph

00:53:40.279 --> 00:53:43.833
(Moderator) Right. Next to -- 
at the back, there.

NOTE Paragraph

00:53:44.073 --> 00:53:46.085
(Participant 11) I think 
we've lost the plot.

00:53:46.085 --> 00:53:50.154
30 years ago, many students started
overtaking the teachers in knowledge.

00:53:50.719 --> 00:53:57.360
Our school server was looked after
by students, pupils, rather than teachers,

00:53:57.363 --> 00:53:58.644
because they couldn't do it.

00:53:58.644 --> 00:54:00.126
And that happens all the while.

00:54:00.378 --> 00:54:03.856
Medical patients are getting 
more knowledge than the doctors,

00:54:03.856 --> 00:54:06.297
because they search the internet
before they go to the doctor's

00:54:06.297 --> 00:54:07.596
about their own disease.

00:54:07.596 --> 00:54:10.478
So I think we have got no chance,
we can't teach anymore.

00:54:11.509 --> 00:54:15.478
(Moderator) OK, thank you for that.
Somebody standing up there --

00:54:15.656 --> 00:54:19.146
Yes, with the hat on.
Hello, Clark (check)?

NOTE Paragraph

00:54:19.146 --> 00:54:22.313
(Participant 12) Yes. Hi, my name is 
Elijah from Sweden

00:54:22.313 --> 00:54:26.075
and I work with a software company
developing ideation software.

00:54:27.359 --> 00:54:31.195
My contribution is that I wonder
if we should not dig even deeper

00:54:31.195 --> 00:54:34.616
and see if this is a structural problem,
because I'd like to say that these skills

00:54:34.616 --> 00:54:36.114
are being taught.

00:54:36.114 --> 00:54:39.050
We see today that people are in two
different types of networks:

00:54:39.050 --> 00:54:43.308
they are in centralized or distributed
networks at work or at school,

00:54:43.539 --> 00:54:45.919
but distributed in their spare time.

00:54:46.117 --> 00:54:48.490
And we see also that 
these different types of network

00:54:48.490 --> 00:54:51.295
cultivate different types of values.

00:54:51.298 --> 00:54:53.080
So it could be an organizational problem,

00:54:53.080 --> 00:54:55.800
but also a value problem, 
if we dig even deeper.

00:54:56.120 --> 00:54:59.601
For example, 
from advertising to conversation

00:54:59.601 --> 00:55:04.631
from ownership to sharing,
from profit to growth --

00:55:04.631 --> 00:55:07.031
sorry, from profit to sustainability,
and so on.

00:55:07.031 --> 00:55:10.908
So my contribution is basically, maybe
the problem is even deeper,

00:55:10.908 --> 00:55:13.067
maybe it has to do about 
how we are organized,

00:55:13.067 --> 00:55:16.276
and the values that those organizations
cultivate.

NOTE Paragraph

00:55:16.969 --> 00:55:20.944
(Moderator) Thank you for that
(Applause)

00:55:20.944 --> 00:55:25.299
Yes, down in the front block here,
in the middle.

NOTE Paragraph

00:55:26.954 --> 00:55:29.720
(Participant 13) I'm Cory Doctorow, 
from the morning plenary.

00:55:31.286 --> 00:55:34.960
It seems to me that education has been
refactored over the last several decades

00:55:34.960 --> 00:55:38.310
as a kind of factory, 
whose product is educated children,

00:55:38.310 --> 00:55:39.657
with teachers as employees,

00:55:39.657 --> 00:55:44.208
and the board of directors as the Ministry
of Education, God help us, Michael Gove,

00:55:44.208 --> 00:55:45.270
as the CEO.

00:55:45.270 --> 00:55:46.330
And
(laughter)

00:55:46.330 --> 00:55:50.797
it seems like, when you organize
something around the idea

00:55:50.797 --> 00:55:53.943
that the public are shareholders and that 
we're doing something that's a business,

00:55:53.943 --> 00:55:56.943
you have to have a quarterly report
where some numbers go up

00:55:56.943 --> 00:55:58.664
to show that the business is thriving.

00:55:58.664 --> 00:56:00.398
And as a result, we are reify things

00:56:00.398 --> 00:56:02.120
that are not 
pedagogically supported,

00:56:02.120 --> 00:56:04.877
like attendance and 
standardized test scores,

00:56:04.877 --> 00:56:08.937
rather than things that are pedagogically
supported as being real learning,

00:56:08.937 --> 00:56:12.680
which are often not quantifiable
and are difficult to recognize,

00:56:12.680 --> 00:56:16.329
except as a kind of creative fog
that you see your students in,

00:56:16.329 --> 00:56:21.632
where they are excited and 
are really chasing knowledge.

00:56:21.632 --> 00:56:24.136
And so now we're -- can be obsessed
with turning children into

00:56:24.136 --> 00:56:26.947
second-rate spreadsheets or 
third-rate spellcheckers,

00:56:26.947 --> 00:56:29.718
instead of teaching them arithmetic
and language.

00:56:30.147 --> 00:56:32.799
It seems like a focus on skills,

00:56:32.799 --> 00:56:36.127
without reference to the way 
that we frame education,

00:56:36.127 --> 00:56:37.717
gets us nowhere.

00:56:37.717 --> 00:56:40.588
Adding standardized tests' outcomes
where we look at

00:56:40.588 --> 00:56:43.502
whether or not you've acquired 
21st century skills,

00:56:43.502 --> 00:56:47.749
ignores the fact that anything 
that you try to teach,

00:56:47.749 --> 00:56:50.645
where the only way you're evaluated
is with high-stake testing,

00:56:51.635 --> 00:56:52.570
gives you nothing,

00:56:52.570 --> 00:56:55.805
except for someone who has been 
crammed full of a bunch of facts

00:56:55.805 --> 00:56:57.574
that they'll promptly forget
when they leave school,

00:56:57.574 --> 00:56:59.603
and no synthetic capability.

NOTE Paragraph

00:57:00.877 --> 00:57:02.009
(Moderator) Thank you for that.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
Yes, on the side of this block here,
on the left.

NOTE Paragraph

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
(Participant 14) Thank you. 
I am ..... (check) from the Investor Malawi.


99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
My question is, I don't know if we know
what we're talking about.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
(Laughter)

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
In Africa, we believe that if 
you don't know where you're going,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
then the Lord can take you there. (check)

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
Are we changing education, 
although we are using,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
we attempt to coexist two educations,
or we are neglecting education. Thank you.

NOTE Paragraph

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
(Moderator) Thank you. Yes, in the middle
of the front block again, and then

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
I'll come over to this one.

NOTE Paragraph

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
(Participant 15) Hi, ........ from ....
University of Applied Science.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
As a university of applied science,
we're teaching skills like hell:

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
social skills, soft skills,
technical skills, all this stuff.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
But maybe we are missing out the values
behind these skills,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
because they aren't the things 
in the future. (check)

NOTE Paragraph

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
(Moderator) Thank you. Let's go
into this block in the front here,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
on the right hand side, the -- the lady 
there, I think, just in front of the camera.

NOTE Paragraph

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
(Participant 16) My name is
Lisa .......... (check)

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
I work at ...... in the United States.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
I think my comment really builds on some 
of the things that Cory Doctorow said.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
You could argue that the premise 
that we are arguing

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
is actually the wrong question.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
It's not important, we -- just teaching
the 21st century skills isn't enough.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
Those skills have to be honed, practiced
and applied,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
for them to do anything.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
So it's not about the teaching, it's about

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
what should the students do 
with the teaching after that.

NOTE Paragraph

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
(Moderator) Thank you for that.
Let's have another one on this side.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
One here on the front -- front row.

NOTE Paragraph

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
(Participant 17) Good evening, I'm 
.......... (check) of the European Schoolnet,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
I want to be also provocative and
I'm thinking about the role you mentioned.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
What's the role of education?

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
Are we pushed by industry to deliver
certain things or not?

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
And I'm thinking, what's the role
of the parents in all that?

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
Is it maybe the role of the parents
to teach these kinds of things?

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
You talked, Miles, 
about character building

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
and I think there are certain things
school can do,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
but I have, at least for my generation,
a little bit of feeling that parents

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
share a little bit, sometimes,
the responsibility to school,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
to technology, and maybe it's time
to be a good parent again.

NOTE Paragraph

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
(Moderator) Thank you for that.
(Applause)

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
Right at the back, there, 
on the right hand side,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
right at the back in the middle.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
(Participant 18) Hi: Bernard Sander
from New York University.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
I grew up developing my own films.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
Though I'm a pretty adequate digital
photographer, I did research

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
using card catalogs and paper indexes
and microfiche,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
but I am a more than adequate 
digital researcher.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
And I think the story is the same
for most of the people in the room.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
So the question really is, what was
inadequate about my education?

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
Nothing I did in the 20th century
hasn't prepared me

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
for what 21st century has begun.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
And as long as I'm competent

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
in my capacity to search 
for new information

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
and in being willing to put any effort
to acquire new skills,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
I don't feel that I'm unprepared,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
and I don't frankly think that any student
is really unprepared,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
as long as they have that.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
So what is it that the 21st century brings
that is so unique,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
other than the fact that 
they can make a mistake

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
and be seen by everybody all at once
in three seconds,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
right? so you know, that's fun.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
But other than that little piece,
what's new?

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
(Moderator) Thank you for that.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
Right at the back, against the wall,
with a red tie. That's it.

NOTE Paragraph

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
(Participant 19) I'm Eric Balance (check)

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
and I'm from the Education, Audiovisual
and Culture Executive Agency.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
We're talking about skills,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
because our employers tell us 
that our kids don't have them.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
Why are we not asking about the skills,
not the employers,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
but society is asking for?

NOTE Paragraph

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
(Moderator) Yes, next door 
to the last speaker.

NOTE Paragraph

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
(Participant 20) .......... (check) 
from the UK.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
I've changed jobs now, 
but in a previous life

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
I've worked with many, many teachers,
primary and secondary,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
and they will tell you that 
all of the skills you're talking about,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
with creativity, adaptation, rhetoric,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
all of them are what they are 
trying to teach,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
when they are not delivering 
standardized tests.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
So the question is,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
do we want the education system to be
told to do a certain thing

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
or are we trying to encourage it
from the inside?

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
Because I think they are two 
different things.

NOTE Paragraph

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
(Moderator) Yes (Applause).
Thank you for that.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
In the front row here, 
on the left hand side. 1:02:30

NOTE Paragraph

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
(Participant 21) Hello, this is Philip 
from IBA

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
and I wonder if we're not discussing
on a completely too advanced level.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
I just got an email from the school
of my son, today,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
where the school counselor had decided
that -- and that was the name --

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
that game boys should be left home.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
Which makes me think if what we're 
discussing here is not way away

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
from what the reality looks like,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
because we're here sitting and discussing 
really interesting topics,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
and in our ideal state of mind,
it's something like that.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
And then I go out and see people like
Donald Trump who are ......... check

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
about our education system,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
which is a reason for shutting 
the whole thing down, I think.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
(Laughter, applause)

NOTE Paragraph

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
(Moderator) Thank you for that. Yes,
another one here, in the front block.

NOTE Paragraph

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
(Participant 22) Hello, I come from 
the University of Oslo, Norway,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
...... (check name).

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
There was quite a lot of investigation 
in Norway, a few years back.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
They asked employers, I would like to go
to employers:

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
"What kinds of skills are you looking for

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
"in a candidate that you consider 
employing?"

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
And the first one was: 
ability to cooperate.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
Then we asked to ourselves,
are we doing that?

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
And then the next one on the list was
ability to attain new knowledge;

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
next, ability to think independently
and critically;

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
communication skills; ability 
to use knowledge in new fields;

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
ability to establish contact 
........... (check) relations.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
And again, we're not doing these things,
we're not -- kind of.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
Point 7 on the list was good theoretical
knowledge in your field of science.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
That's what we're doing all the time.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
I mean it's great to see 
so many people here

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
but let's face it, most people
are not here. (Laughter)

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
That means that lectures -- I mean it's 
great to see many people at this meeting,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
concerned with teaching in general,
but the fact is that most lectures,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
say basic course in first year mathematic,
whatever, at my university,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
are being taught today in exactly 
the same way as when I was a student,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
thirty years ago.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
So that's why this conference 
is important,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
that's why we need to provide students --
some people have to take responsibility

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
to provide students with the skills 
that employers need.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
(Applause)

NOTE Paragraph

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
(Moderator) Thank you.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
There was another question just near
to the last speaker, in the same block,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
the lady there, just the row in front,
I think.

NOTE Paragraph

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
(Participant 23) Hi, Lisa, 
with the Global School Network.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
And ........ (check)

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
perhaps it's not just what skills 
we're teaching, but more so

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
what 21st century pedagogical skills
that we're using, in that

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
sometimes it's just as important
how it's being taught

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
than what is being taught.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
And I think back to my college and
in some of the courses,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
sometimes when I was going through
the course catalog,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
it wasn't how exciting the title was,
but who was teaching it.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
And I think that goes back to 
some of the test scores

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
that teachers are very focused on as well.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
And when I look at my daughter
who has started school

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
and what when I started school
30 years ago,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
and looking at how she is being taught

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
-- taking away from ...... (check)
what should be included --

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
but a lot of that rote learning and a lot
of new skills they're using as well, so.

NOTE Paragraph

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
(Moderator) OK, thank you, another one
in the ..... (check) over there

NOTE Paragraph

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
(Participant 24) Hi, my name is ...... (check)

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
I work for UNESCO.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
I just want to ask, 
not just for the panelists,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
but I think for everyone.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
Maybe after 20, 30 years or so, are we
still going to talk about the same thing?

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
Or are we going to -- what the idea
would be the next topic

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
that we're going to talk about?

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
And I just wanted to also reiterate what 
our head of office is actually saying,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
I mean -- ..... (check name) --

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
he always say that the world is not
hungry for more words, more resolutions,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
more talks and more panel discussions.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
The world is actually hungry 
for more actions.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
Thank you very much.

NOTE Paragraph

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
(Moderator) Thank you. We've got about
5 minutes left for questions.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
Please, so if you want to ask a question,
just stick your hand up

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
and then we can get an idea: 
I think there is about three more.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
So, the man right at the back 
on the back of the aisle here,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
on the right hand side, please, first.

NOTE Paragraph

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
(Participant 25) Hi, ............. (check name)
from London.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
Miles mentioned knowledge and character,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
I think one thing left out here is values.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
So you know, we need knowledge
to do things,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
we need skills to do things,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
but we first have to agree at
what's worthy of doing.

NOTE Paragraph

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
(Moderator) OK, thank you, and there was
a question, again on the aisle, here,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
on the left hand side -- 
lady just down here: that's it.

NOTE Paragraph

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
(Participant 26) It's not really 
a question, but a challenge, maybe

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
for the panelists.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
I miss a little bit of diversity, so
maybe more ethnical background,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
different ethnical backgrounds
looking at the same question,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
and how is it that we are addressing this
in different contexts.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
So maybe for the next plenary, we can have
a bit more diversity.

NOTE Paragraph

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
(Moderator) OK, and then there's --
there are two, right at the back,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
on the right hand side.

NOTE Paragraph

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
(Participant 27) .................... (check name)
Belgrade, Serbia.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
Part of the title of this panel is that
soft skills, 21st century skills,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
should be taught.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
My question is, is there any published
evidence as to what extent

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
teaching them really changes 
the mastery of these skills?

NOTE Paragraph

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
(Moderator) And I think, a final question,
again at the right of the back --

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
-- or a contribution -- right at the back
on the -- here we are, that's it.

NOTE Paragraph

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
(Participant 27) Thank you. My name is 
Heike Dratch (check name.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
I'm working for ........ (check)
an international cooperation organization.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
And my -- what I'm lacking a bit here is,
in looking at 21st century skills,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
then looking at Paris, 
the climate change conference,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
so what kind of skills do we need, 
to look into the future

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
and really see what we're doing now
is a future-oriented, sustainable activity.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
So what kind of skills are not taught,
in the sense of having

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
a future orientation of our behavior now
and how we can change our behaviors

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
So this is a -- probably 
in the next 10, 20 years,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
we need answers for that, 
how we change our behavior

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
and seeing all effects 
of what we're doing.

NOTE Paragraph

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
(Moderator) OK, thank you 
very much for that,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
and thank you everyone 
for your questions and contributions

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
(Applause)

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
I'm now going to ask one speaker from
each side to sum up,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
and to deal with the points 
that you've made

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
and to make their final pitch 
for your votes.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
So, first of all, I will ask our speakers
against the motion to sum up.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
You've got 5 minutes.

NOTE Paragraph

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
(Allan Päll) Alright, thank you very much,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
thank you very much.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
I'm also very happy to hear 
the different nuances

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
and different arguments raised, 
and I think that the question --

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
questioning the very question itself
is a good one,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
because it is difficult to pin down.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
I would perhaps like to start with
the broadest question, in terms of

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
what would the 22nd century skills be?

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
And unless the world will change 
completely

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
or we will run out of resources
on the planet,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
or we will have a nuclear war,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
potentially, it will look similar,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
but it could also be that we are just
......able (check)

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
into a metric slide singularity that some
are predicting.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
And then, of course, it would be
completely different, because

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
there would be no physical interaction.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
So our mind needs to be open for even
fundamental, more fundamental changes

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
than we can even imagine.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
However, I think there was a --
one important reflection indeed,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
about how do we teach
and what is the pedagogy

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
used in hour educational system.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
I think our main problem, if we are 
to look anyone who is to be blamed,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
is that -- is not education itself,
is not the educators or the teachers,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
but it may be indeed in this obsession
with standards, standardized testing

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
and also indeed, I would even go to argue,
with qualifications.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
Yes, you might say, we want to be sure 
that you, as an engineer,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
are properly qualified, or as a doctor.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
Yes, we need to be sure that you have made
-- have a certain set of skills

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
to be able to perform that job.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
But then again, perhaps, the way
that we conduct learning

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
is not recognizing the fact that learning
is not something

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
that an educational institution can have
a monopoly over.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
And thus, maybe, we need to open that up
much more and say that

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
we need to recognize any kind of
competences, skills, values

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
that you gain anywhere.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
So I think -- I think in terms of
building that critical thinking,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
which I do think is important, and which
has existed throughout centuries

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
and is needed for the future as well,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
that if we want to make sure that it is
better done.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
We really need to look at, OK, let's
recognize that this happens everywhere

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
and let's also see that we don't need
to ignore the subject matter

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
but use participative methods of teaching
and learning in our environment.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
And that's where 
the difference comes from.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
But however, I do believe that 
the very standard academic methods

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
are still giving us the basic abilities
for things like critical thinking.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
(Applause)

NOTE Paragraph

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
(Moderator) Thank you. OK?

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
If you want to you got a couple of minutes
to ......

NOTE Paragraph

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
(Berry) Very briefly, a couple of other
things worth saying, I think,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
in addition to what Allan said.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
Trust schools! Actually, so much of what 
we heard about here

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
happens in the day to day life 
of the classroom.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
What does school do, 
yes, it is about education,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
this passing on of knowledge
to the next generation.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
But it's also about building character,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
it's also about young people
having that experience

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
of getting on with one another
and working collaboratively,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
of working creatively.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
Much of what we are labeling perhaps
as 21st century skills is happening.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
Teachers are committed to this 
sort of thing,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
this happens in most of the classrooms,
length and breadth of most countries,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
apart from when the testing 
gets in the way,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
as Allan has already made clear that.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
What are the reasons 
why this has happened?

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
Well, in part, it is this sort of
preparation for the future.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
If you look back at the start
of the 20th century,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
there were newspaper articles,
there were magazine articles

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
about what should be 20th century skills.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
How many of those 
are still relevant today?

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
I'd say most of those 
are still relevant today.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
You know, the photography thing:

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
yes, we are working 
with different cameras now

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
but the knowledge of what makes
a good photograph,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
and the wisdom to discern 
a good photograph

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
from a less good photograph
is still just,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
I think is just as important now 
as it was then.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
So in summary, 21st century skills
are being taught in schools.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
We are addressing this.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
But actually, there are much more
important things

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
that we should be focusing on: knowledge,
passing that on to the next generation,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
and character, and yes, values, 
absolutely right.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
You know, the question about

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
what should we be doing 
in terms of 22nd century skills.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
I suspect the values of respect for
one another, of integrity,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
of willingness to be courageous,
as I was talking about,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
that's going to be just as important then
as it is now. Thank you very much.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
(Applause)

NOTE Paragraph

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
(Moderator) Thank you.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
OK, I'll now ask our speakers 
for the motion

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
to sum up and you've got 5 minutes.

NOTE Paragraph

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
(Pedro De Bruyckere) I'll say one minute,
one answer to one question,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
and then, Jo will conclude.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
But there was a question, 
"Who is to blame."

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
That's easy: we are.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
We are all, because we've fogotten
what school is about.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
If you look back what school really means,
it means free time.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
If I say this to my son, he will start
throwing things,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
but it means free of economic value.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
Because if you go to a hair salon
in a school,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
you know it will take much longer time
than in a real hair salon,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
because the emphasis is not 
on earning money, but on learning.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
And today, because of the testings,
because of the focus,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
teachers need to to focus on
very specific elements

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
and we've forgotten what schooling 
is about, what school is about.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
So if we bring back school, then maybe

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
these 21st century skills 
will be taught again.

NOTE Paragraph

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
(Moderator) Thank you. Jo.
(Applause)

NOTE Paragraph

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
(Jo Swinson) So, I firstly want to answer
a question that Miles asked, which was

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
"Who uses a spreadsheet to plan a party?"

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
I would just say that anyone that asks
that question has never planned a wedding.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
(Laughter)

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
I think it was -- a guy at the back said:
"Most people are not in this room."

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
And that is actually part of the problem.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
Because if the world was 
like the people in this room,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
i don't think there'd be such concern,
I think that we would be able

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
to stand here and say that 
21st century skills are being taught.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
You know, going round the exhibitions,
seeing the innovation, the creativity,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
it's really inspiring.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
But I think we all know 
from our own experience

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
that the world out there 
isn't quite as enlightened.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
And the measurement is a stifling problem.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
What gets measured gets done.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
So of course, if you have endless testing,
then teachers will teach to the test.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
And I noted the reference to Michael Gove:

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
I'd just like to just say for the record:

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
I was a part of the coalition 
trying to rein him in at that point.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
And I think Elijah talked about the values
in organizations,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
and how the values even of our societies 
is changing.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
I think that's right and it's important --
I think it's exciting.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
We are moving to an age where there is
far less deference

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
that has its challenges in ll sorts
of walks of life, from anchors

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
to medicine, to politics, to the media.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
But I also think it's 
a positive development

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
that people can make 
their critical analysis

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
of the institutions around us,
rather than assuming that

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
if somebody is in authority,
then they must be right.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
Even in the business world, there is 
a move towards more collaboration

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
rather than just pure competition.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
The pursuit of profit is still important,
but conversations ..... (check) purpose

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
are also increasingly heard.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
And I think that the leadership models

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
that are now experienced and valued 
the most

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
are not the ones about just 
in a military style,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
telling people what to do,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
but actually about working 
with individuals,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
to lead them and motivate them,
and get the best out of a team.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
And this has an impact 
for all of our careers paths.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
You don't just go into one job
and stay there for 40 years.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
And therefore we need to change the way
we are preparing people for this world.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
A lady in the audience mentioned that we 
are, as human beings, naturally adaptive,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
and I would agree we are, but we need 
to be helped to do that even more,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
because we do need to adapt 
more than we did

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
when we stayed in one job for 40 years
in our career.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
So that lifelong learning is actually
so important.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
By all means, we should talk about 
what happens in the education system

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
but it's just as important for, 
when we're all here in 20 years time

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
and we are, you know, trying to keep track
of the world that has suddenly developed.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
We need to find a way 
of staying up to date.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
So, can these skills be taught?
How can these skills be taught?

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
Well, they absolutely have to be taught

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
so we need to figure out 
the answers to that.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
People need to acquire these skills
and they will need help to do it.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
But that teaching can come 
from a range of sources.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
Of course, the formal education system
but also parents and our peers

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
and indeed I would argue, particularly
to the point, in some dimension,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
about all the people in the audience,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
I think, ultimately, one of the ways
21st century skills will be taught

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
will be from our children 
and grandchildren.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
Thank you.
(Applause)

NOTE Paragraph

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
(Moderator) Thank you for that, 
Jo and Pedro,

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
and thank you to all our speakers
and thank you to your contributions.

NOTE Paragraph

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
We'll now take a vote on this, so
would all those in favor of the motion:

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
"This house believes 21st century skills
aren't being taught and they should be."

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
please raise their hand, in the singular:
one hand each.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
Right.That's all those in favor.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
And all those against.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
(Inaudible off voice - laughter)

NOTE Paragraph

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
(Moderator) That's not --
that is very close but I would say that --

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
that the motion is lost on that.
(Boos and clapping)

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
I would say I would be happy to --
but only just.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
That's very, very narrow vote.

NOTE Paragraph

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
So thank you very much indeed 
for all your contributions

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
and your attention, and I have a number
of announcements just to make, actually.

NOTE Paragraph

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
Just to remind you that the Online Educa
OEB party, Weihnachts Fest

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
will take place and the tickets are
on sale at the reception.

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
It will take place tonight, 
there'll be food, drink

99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999
and 25 liters of fake snow.
(Laughter)

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So that's something to look forward to.

NOTE Paragraph

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The other thing is that many of you
will remember

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our dear friend and colleague Jay Cross,
who died recently.

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And Jay was one of the real stars 
of OEB in the past.

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And I know that he was a great friend to 
many people who attend this conference

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and there is going to be a special session
which will take place now

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in room Potsdam 1, which will look at
Jay Cross's legacy in person and in print

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and this session will feature 
Jay's colleagues

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from the Internet Time Alliance, 
who will remember his influence

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and present his legacy.

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So I do hope you'll take the opportunity
to go along and take part in that session.

NOTE Paragraph

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Thank you all very much indeed, 
Ladies and Gentlemen.

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(Applause)

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[Recordings of this session will be uploaded to
www.online-educa.com]

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[Recording is provided by Presentations 200
Making Video Reality]