1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:15,085 (Sound off till 0:39, actual session starts at 2:04) 2 00:00:56,530 --> 00:01:08,469 (Indistinct conversations) 3 00:01:17,014 --> 00:01:18,994 (Moderator) So we've got one hour and a quarter. 4 00:01:19,004 --> 00:01:31,432 (confused voices) 5 00:01:31,432 --> 00:01:34,146 How do we know when these things are going to be turned on? 6 00:01:34,146 --> 00:01:57,543 (confused voices) 7 00:01:57,543 --> 00:02:01,802 What? OK? Right. 8 00:02:03,548 --> 00:02:07,367 (Moderator) Ladies and Genltemen, can I ask everyone 9 00:02:07,367 --> 00:02:09,281 to take their seats, please? 10 00:02:09,912 --> 00:02:13,119 We're about to begin, so if you're visiting the bar, 11 00:02:13,119 --> 00:02:18,314 can you charge your glasses and return to your seats, and then we'll begin. 12 00:02:18,314 --> 00:02:20,921 We've got an hour and a quarter for this debate. 13 00:02:30,575 --> 00:02:36,631 OK, can I -- Welcome everybody to the Online Educa OEB debate. 14 00:02:38,508 --> 00:02:42,718 I'm not sure what number this is in the series of debates that we've had, 15 00:02:42,718 --> 00:02:44,743 I think it may be getting up to our 10th. 16 00:02:44,743 --> 00:02:49,729 What I can tell you is that in the time that we've been having these debates 17 00:02:49,729 --> 00:02:53,872 and that I've been chairing them, my eyesight has now gone so bad 18 00:02:53,872 --> 00:02:57,846 that I can't possibly read any notes that I have without using glasses, so 19 00:02:58,935 --> 00:03:02,448 I think we must be on at least our 10th. 20 00:03:02,454 --> 00:03:07,236 What I can also tell you is that Online Educa itself, OEB, 21 00:03:07,669 --> 00:03:11,210 this year is celebrating its 21st anniversary. 22 00:03:11,513 --> 00:03:14,550 So I think that perhaps deserves a round of applause. 23 00:03:14,550 --> 00:03:22,959 So happy birthday to Online Educa -- (Applause) -- this fantastic conference. 24 00:03:22,959 --> 00:03:30,983 And 21 years ago was a very difficult -- very different world indeed, 25 00:03:30,983 --> 00:03:35,852 when one thinks about the scale and scope of change that there -- 26 00:03:35,852 --> 00:03:39,762 that has taken place in the last 21 years. 27 00:03:40,499 --> 00:03:50,874 One statistic I was reading recently was that in the UK, in 1994, 21 years ago, 28 00:03:51,344 --> 00:03:57,120 there were only 67 mobile phones per 1000 people. 29 00:03:57,697 --> 00:04:02,114 But only ten years later, in 2004, 30 00:04:02,114 --> 00:04:05,527 there were more mobiles in the UK than people. 31 00:04:05,842 --> 00:04:10,067 And that pattern of spread of mobile communications alone 32 00:04:10,336 --> 00:04:15,412 has spread across the world and in Africa, for instance, 33 00:04:15,412 --> 00:04:17,765 those of you who have been to Elearning Africa will have heard about 34 00:04:17,765 --> 00:04:22,414 the spread of mobile communications across the African continent. 35 00:04:22,414 --> 00:04:26,092 So in terms of the scale of technological change, 36 00:04:26,092 --> 00:04:28,416 and the spread of that change across the world, 37 00:04:28,416 --> 00:04:33,383 the change in that short period of time, in these past 21 years alone, 38 00:04:33,383 --> 00:04:35,951 has been enormous, and we heard about 39 00:04:35,951 --> 00:04:40,399 the scale of it in the opening plenary session this morning. 40 00:04:40,399 --> 00:04:45,465 We live in a world that is globalized, interconnected, hyperlinked 41 00:04:45,465 --> 00:04:51,621 and that scale of change that we're experiencing and have experienced 42 00:04:51,621 --> 00:04:56,297 in the last 21 years, is going to gather pace and continue. 43 00:04:56,297 --> 00:05:02,551 And all that is going to create a huge challenge for education and training, 44 00:05:02,551 --> 00:05:04,966 which is going to be at the heart 45 00:05:04,966 --> 00:05:09,635 of dealing with both the positive and negative aspects of that change. 46 00:05:09,635 --> 00:05:14,722 And that's why the motion that we're dealing with today, in this debate, 47 00:05:14,722 --> 00:05:20,316 is so important, and why the whole subject of giving young people the skills 48 00:05:20,316 --> 00:05:23,594 that they need to cope with the challenges of this new world 49 00:05:23,594 --> 00:05:30,834 that we all are going to -- that we are creating, is so important. 50 00:05:31,514 --> 00:05:34,957 We've got four speakers, four panel speakers 51 00:05:34,957 --> 00:05:37,901 to open the debate this evening 52 00:05:37,901 --> 00:05:41,386 and I'm going to ask each of them to speak for 10 minutes, 53 00:05:42,088 --> 00:05:43,313 and then I'm going to -- 54 00:05:43,903 --> 00:05:47,641 -- two of them will speak for the motion, obviously,and two against -- 55 00:05:47,641 --> 00:05:51,749 then I will throw open the debate to all of you, 56 00:05:52,136 --> 00:05:55,752 but if you want to intervene whilst they are speaking, 57 00:05:55,752 --> 00:05:58,995 because we're having a parliamentary-style debate, 58 00:05:59,672 --> 00:06:01,723 then you can try to intervene on them 59 00:06:01,723 --> 00:06:04,969 and if they want to take your intervention, 60 00:06:04,969 --> 00:06:07,507 then they can do so, but it will be entirely up to you. 61 00:06:07,507 --> 00:06:12,386 And if they don't, then you can draw whatever conclusions you want from that. 62 00:06:13,283 --> 00:06:16,054 But I want to ensure that we keep the flow going, 63 00:06:16,054 --> 00:06:20,078 so I'm not going to let you bully them but I'm going to allow you, 64 00:06:20,078 --> 00:06:21,655 if you want to make a particular point, 65 00:06:21,655 --> 00:06:24,223 or if you want to make a short intervention, to do so. 66 00:06:24,223 --> 00:06:28,953 Then after they've spoken, we'll throw open the debate to the floor 67 00:06:28,953 --> 00:06:31,683 and you can make your contribution, 68 00:06:31,683 --> 00:06:34,282 but do please realize that time is of the essence, 69 00:06:34,282 --> 00:06:37,993 so please try to keep it short and to the point, succinct. 70 00:06:37,993 --> 00:06:41,535 This is the kind of debate equivalent of texting. 71 00:06:41,535 --> 00:06:44,379 So, no long rambling contributions, 72 00:06:44,379 --> 00:06:46,376 because I will cut you off if you try to do that. 73 00:06:46,376 --> 00:06:48,635 So, very short contributions, please. 74 00:06:48,875 --> 00:06:53,146 And then I'll ask each of our -- I'll ask one speaker from each side 75 00:06:53,146 --> 00:06:59,647 to sum up, and then we will take a vote, and we'll do that by a show of hands. 76 00:07:00,486 --> 00:07:04,496 And I've also made it clear to all the speakers that they may 77 00:07:04,496 --> 00:07:09,258 say things that they don't necessarily want to be held to in the future, 78 00:07:09,258 --> 00:07:10,802 so I hope that you will understand that, 79 00:07:10,802 --> 00:07:15,211 that this is an opportunity for us to explore some of the issues, 80 00:07:15,211 --> 00:07:17,643 but don't take it all too seriously, 81 00:07:17,643 --> 00:07:21,560 and don't come and accuse people of saying things that you would -- 82 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:25,164 that they might not necessarily always want to be held to. 83 00:07:25,164 --> 00:07:31,030 With that in mind, I'm going to ask our first speaker, who is Jo Swinson. 84 00:07:31,030 --> 00:07:37,269 Jo Swinson, who is the former Minister for business, innovation and skills 85 00:07:37,269 --> 00:07:42,737 in the UK's coalition government of 2010 to 2015, 86 00:07:42,737 --> 00:07:45,111 to speak first for the motion. 87 00:07:45,468 --> 00:07:53,130 And Jo, since leaving Parliament, has begun a new career 88 00:07:53,130 --> 00:07:57,795 and is involved in an award within a data intelligence company 89 00:07:57,795 --> 00:08:00,310 called Clear Returns 90 00:08:00,310 --> 00:08:07,511 and she is an expert on the challenges and opportunities of the digital age. 91 00:08:07,511 --> 00:08:09,077 So, over to you, Jo. 92 00:08:09,504 --> 00:08:12,324 (Jo Swinson) Thank you very much indeed, Harold. 93 00:08:12,329 --> 00:08:18,227 And I'm absolutely delighted to be here in Berlin at OEB. 94 00:08:18,227 --> 00:08:22,878 A bit of a first, actually, the first technology-related conference 95 00:08:22,878 --> 00:08:26,434 that I've been to where there is a queue in the ladies' loos! 96 00:08:26,865 --> 00:08:31,841 I have to say I was particularly pleased by that, not only as a feminist, 97 00:08:31,841 --> 00:08:35,515 but also as a Brit who appreciates the art of queuing. 98 00:08:35,515 --> 00:08:37,486 So it was good on two fronts. 99 00:08:38,507 --> 00:08:44,075 So, "This house believes that 21st century skills aren't being taught, 100 00:08:44,075 --> 00:08:47,786 "and they should be." is the motion that I want to convince you 101 00:08:47,786 --> 00:08:49,967 to support this evening. 102 00:08:50,469 --> 00:08:54,761 We absolutely need to be equipping our young people, 103 00:08:54,761 --> 00:08:58,439 and indeed, people at every stage of their lives, 104 00:08:58,439 --> 00:09:02,625 with the skills that they need for the 21st century. 105 00:09:02,625 --> 00:09:05,836 And our education systems, and our wider society, 106 00:09:05,836 --> 00:09:08,082 have an important role to play in this. 107 00:09:08,629 --> 00:09:13,333 But I will put it to you, this evening, that when it comes to technical skills, 108 00:09:13,333 --> 00:09:15,821 when it comes to social skills, and vitally, 109 00:09:15,821 --> 00:09:19,927 when it comes to capacity to embrace change, 110 00:09:19,927 --> 00:09:24,007 we are not yet rising to that challenge sufficiently. 111 00:09:25,064 --> 00:09:29,912 There are very specific skills, there are gaps in science and technology 112 00:09:29,918 --> 00:09:31,990 that are not being properly filled. 113 00:09:32,870 --> 00:09:36,054 These shortages are causing significant problems 114 00:09:36,054 --> 00:09:38,206 for businesses, for employers. 115 00:09:38,715 --> 00:09:43,755 Half of engineering companies say that they have delayed taking forward 116 00:09:43,755 --> 00:09:47,751 new products or services, because they have vacancies 117 00:09:47,751 --> 00:09:52,559 that are so hard to fill, because the skills are not there to recruit. 118 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:58,348 Digital start-ups are often in real need of software developers 119 00:09:58,348 --> 00:10:00,444 that they cannot find sufficiently. 120 00:10:00,444 --> 00:10:05,565 And companies of all sizes, grappling with cybersecurity challenges 121 00:10:05,565 --> 00:10:10,750 struggle to have the skills that they need to take on those important issues. 122 00:10:11,347 --> 00:10:16,545 As Harold mentioned, I'm now a director of a company called Clear Returns. 123 00:10:16,545 --> 00:10:21,926 It's been going for about three years, based in Glasgow, and uses data analytics 124 00:10:21,926 --> 00:10:27,020 to help retailers understand the problems they have with product returns 125 00:10:27,020 --> 00:10:30,369 and therefore successfully cutting the costs for retailers, 126 00:10:30,369 --> 00:10:33,034 and resulting in better customer satisfaction. 127 00:10:33,383 --> 00:10:39,275 But in our technology team of 17 people, there are 12 different nationalities 128 00:10:39,275 --> 00:10:45,640 and not one of those people went through the school education system in the UK, 129 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:49,235 because the skills are not up to scratch. 130 00:10:49,836 --> 00:10:53,590 Now, there have been some improvements and as to 2014, 131 00:10:53,590 --> 00:10:58,040 computer science has been introduced into the curriculum in the UK, 132 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:00,393 but that is not the end of the matter, 133 00:11:00,393 --> 00:11:05,916 because 11% of computer science graduates are unemployed. 134 00:11:06,276 --> 00:11:10,481 In fact, that's one of the highest unemployment rates 135 00:11:10,481 --> 00:11:12,039 for any subject discipline, 136 00:11:12,039 --> 00:11:16,801 at a time when we have a huge shortage of these very skills. 137 00:11:16,801 --> 00:11:20,218 Something is going very wrong when that is the case. 138 00:11:20,834 --> 00:11:23,997 And this is not just about teaching people to code. 139 00:11:24,410 --> 00:11:27,114 Fashionable though that undoubtedly is at the moment 140 00:11:27,114 --> 00:11:31,116 and it is necessary that we do have people who can code. 141 00:11:31,116 --> 00:11:34,315 But it's not some kind of silver bullet on its own. 142 00:11:34,855 --> 00:11:39,039 Actually, it's the building blocks that we need to be putting in place, 143 00:11:39,338 --> 00:11:42,806 the things that lie before you get to the point of coding, 144 00:11:42,806 --> 00:11:46,821 the logic, the basic maths, enhancing those skills, 145 00:11:46,821 --> 00:11:49,911 so that people can put those building blocks together 146 00:11:49,911 --> 00:11:55,238 and create an argument or a train of thought or a mathematical proof, 147 00:11:55,537 --> 00:12:00,330 or indeed, a piece of code that will instruct a machine to do something. 148 00:12:00,641 --> 00:12:04,673 Yet our maths skills are also going backwards. 149 00:12:04,673 --> 00:12:08,233 A King's College, London, study found that compared to the 1970's 150 00:12:08,233 --> 00:12:13,562 young people today are significantly less well equipped in the field of mathematics. 151 00:12:14,110 --> 00:12:17,581 And it's also worth pointing out that we are missing out, 152 00:12:17,581 --> 00:12:22,434 when it comes to teaching these skills on almost half of the population. 153 00:12:23,024 --> 00:12:27,753 Only one in five A-level physics students is a girl. 154 00:12:27,753 --> 00:12:31,717 When it comes to computer science, that figure drops to 1 in 10. 155 00:12:32,233 --> 00:12:34,680 Now, it's wonderful to be at a technology conference 156 00:12:34,680 --> 00:12:36,116 where there is a queue in the ladies' loos, 157 00:12:36,116 --> 00:12:40,230 but even at this conference, if you have a look at the speakers' brochure, 158 00:12:40,230 --> 00:12:44,674 only 8 of the 35 main speakers are women, so where are the women? 159 00:12:44,674 --> 00:12:47,648 We are missing out on that important talent 160 00:12:47,648 --> 00:12:51,184 who are not then getting the skills that we need for the 21st century 161 00:12:51,184 --> 00:12:53,521 to enable all of our economies to flourish. 162 00:12:54,401 --> 00:12:58,478 We're also not doing well enough at the social skills 163 00:12:58,478 --> 00:13:01,326 which have always been imported -- important, 164 00:13:01,326 --> 00:13:04,869 and I would argue, are even more so in the context of the 21st century. 165 00:13:05,472 --> 00:13:10,225 Employers have long complained that they get coming into the work place 166 00:13:10,225 --> 00:13:12,189 are not yet ready for work. 167 00:13:12,750 --> 00:13:15,723 I have to say there is that thing I've observed, 168 00:13:15,723 --> 00:13:18,539 when new graduates starting out in the work place 169 00:13:18,539 --> 00:13:21,095 seem to be allergic to using the telephone 170 00:13:21,095 --> 00:13:23,754 for the purpose it was originally designed for. 171 00:13:24,404 --> 00:13:28,853 I've lost count of the number of times when, speaking to a member of staff 172 00:13:28,853 --> 00:13:31,863 about the particular project that they are trying to make happen, 173 00:13:31,863 --> 00:13:33,846 and it seems sort of stuck, and I say: 174 00:13:33,846 --> 00:13:36,549 "And what happened when you asked that person about it?" 175 00:13:36,876 --> 00:13:39,594 "Oh, I sent them an email and they didn't get back to me." 176 00:13:40,069 --> 00:13:43,996 You know, for all the wonders that technology can undoubtedly do 177 00:13:43,996 --> 00:13:48,012 in helping us in our working life, when you want to get people to do something, 178 00:13:48,012 --> 00:13:54,009 an email is very easy to ignore, and it is much harder to just put to one side 179 00:13:54,009 --> 00:13:58,061 a face-to-face person or contact, or on the telephone. 180 00:13:58,619 --> 00:14:03,741 And relationships are absolutely critical to 21st century work places and skills: 181 00:14:03,741 --> 00:14:08,036 getting things done, collaborating in teams, motivating others. 182 00:14:08,036 --> 00:14:12,362 Yet when we assess children and young people in the education system, 183 00:14:12,362 --> 00:14:15,764 it is genuinely done on a pure individual basis, 184 00:14:15,764 --> 00:14:19,800 not looking at how they are actually operating within a group setting. 185 00:14:20,227 --> 00:14:24,300 And when it comes to skills in terms of relationships, 186 00:14:24,300 --> 00:14:28,603 something like personal, social and health education, which I would argue, 187 00:14:28,603 --> 00:14:33,490 is absolutely essential to help young people learn to navigate relationships, 188 00:14:33,490 --> 00:14:36,711 and important issues like consent when it comes to sex, 189 00:14:36,711 --> 00:14:40,195 it's not even compulsory in the UK curriculum. 190 00:14:40,675 --> 00:14:43,480 In a world where ultimation is increasing, 191 00:14:43,942 --> 00:14:47,270 where jobs that we've already seen through the Industrial Revolution, 192 00:14:47,270 --> 00:14:49,441 that manual jobs have been replaced by machines, 193 00:14:49,441 --> 00:14:54,257 that with the next stage of technological advancement, many, many more, 194 00:14:54,257 --> 00:14:57,351 in things like accountancy and professional services, 195 00:14:57,351 --> 00:15:00,396 are also going to be replaced by algorithms, 196 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:05,838 the human social relationship skills are going to be in even more demand 197 00:15:05,838 --> 00:15:08,962 and therefore deserve much more attention. 198 00:15:09,392 --> 00:15:15,115 And my final point is that we have not done enough to prepare people 199 00:15:15,115 --> 00:15:17,069 for the world of change. 200 00:15:17,750 --> 00:15:21,993 A little while ago, I spoke at a School Award ceremony to 12-year olds 201 00:15:21,993 --> 00:15:24,996 And I was to explain to them how the world had changed 202 00:15:24,996 --> 00:15:26,558 since I was there age. 203 00:15:27,290 --> 00:15:33,611 And one of the examples I used was the process of taking a photograph. 204 00:15:34,351 --> 00:15:39,926 And I described how, when I was 12, you would have a thing called a camera 205 00:15:39,926 --> 00:15:43,550 that was all that it did, it was just for taking photographs, 206 00:15:44,126 --> 00:15:46,791 you would have to get a piece of film, physically, 207 00:15:46,791 --> 00:15:50,020 to load it into the camera machine, you'd had to do that pretty carefully, 208 00:15:50,020 --> 00:15:53,590 because you didn't want to expose the film and it was quite a fiddly process. 209 00:15:54,212 --> 00:15:57,084 You wouldn't know whether the photos you were taking were any good. 210 00:15:58,810 --> 00:16:02,027 You would have to take at least 24, or sometimes 36, 211 00:16:02,027 --> 00:16:05,277 depending on which particular piece of film you put into your camera, 212 00:16:05,277 --> 00:16:09,959 before you would then take it along to a pharmacist's or a chemist's shop, 213 00:16:10,355 --> 00:16:14,391 pay some money and then go and do something else for a few days, 214 00:16:14,391 --> 00:16:16,439 at which point you could come back and be presented 215 00:16:16,439 --> 00:16:18,193 with your little envelope of photographs, 216 00:16:18,193 --> 00:16:20,343 and see if any of them had turned out OK. 217 00:16:20,807 --> 00:16:22,925 And I was counting on these 12-year olds looked at me (check) 218 00:16:22,925 --> 00:16:25,446 like I might well be lying to the,: this is how it worked, 219 00:16:26,387 --> 00:16:29,235 because of course these days, you know, within a matter of seconds, 220 00:16:29,235 --> 00:16:31,196 you can take dozens of selfies in your phone, 221 00:16:31,196 --> 00:16:33,757 apply however many Instagram filters you like, 222 00:16:33,757 --> 00:16:38,308 and share it with the entire world, just without leaving the spot. 223 00:16:38,795 --> 00:16:42,840 The pace of change is accelerating hugely. 224 00:16:43,358 --> 00:16:49,751 Here in 2015, for us to consider what even are 21st century skills, 225 00:16:50,103 --> 00:16:56,487 is like going back to 1915 and trying to imagine the space race, nuclear power, 226 00:16:56,487 --> 00:17:00,722 the internet, or the kind of social change going from a situation 227 00:17:00,722 --> 00:17:02,727 where women didn't even have the vote, 228 00:17:02,727 --> 00:17:05,582 to electing a woman as Prime Minister in the UK, 229 00:17:05,582 --> 00:17:08,341 or the change with gay rights, 230 00:17:08,341 --> 00:17:11,929 or the ending of racial segregation in the United States. 231 00:17:12,238 --> 00:17:16,247 We can't even conceive of all that the 21st century is going to bring. 232 00:17:16,516 --> 00:17:20,640 And so, more than anything, with this huge pace of increasing knowledge, 233 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:24,056 more than anything, what we need to do is equip people 234 00:17:24,056 --> 00:17:28,003 to cope with and thrive on change and uncertainty. 235 00:17:28,582 --> 00:17:33,039 And instead, we have bunches of kids being processed through the education system 236 00:17:33,039 --> 00:17:36,771 that doesn't look that different to several decades ago. 237 00:17:37,029 --> 00:17:41,168 So we really do have a problem here, in terms of the skills 238 00:17:41,168 --> 00:17:45,117 that we are teaching and more importantly, not teaching well enough. 239 00:17:45,870 --> 00:17:49,130 Whether it's technical skills, whether it's those social skills 240 00:17:49,130 --> 00:17:53,035 or whether it's the vitally important ability to be resilient, 241 00:17:53,035 --> 00:17:55,155 to recover from change and setbacks, 242 00:17:55,155 --> 00:17:59,355 and to apply yourself in a new way to a new set of challenges and horizons. 243 00:17:59,355 --> 00:18:01,841 These are the things we must be focusing on, 244 00:18:01,841 --> 00:18:04,309 and we aren't yet rising to that challenge. 245 00:18:04,619 --> 00:18:05,840 Support the motion! 246 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:15,626 (Applause) 247 00:18:16,081 --> 00:18:18,406 (Moderator) OK, thank you very much for that, Jo. 248 00:18:19,052 --> 00:18:24,908 Our next speaker, who is going to speak against the motion, is Allan Päll, 249 00:18:25,297 --> 00:18:28,852 who is the Secretary General of the European Youth Forum, 250 00:18:28,852 --> 00:18:33,041 which is the representative body for youth organisations in Europe 251 00:18:33,041 --> 00:18:35,400 and he is an advocate for youth's rights. 252 00:18:35,994 --> 00:18:41,296 He lead student unions in Estonia and at the European level, and has advocated 253 00:18:41,296 --> 00:18:46,055 for students' voices to be included in educational policy. Allan, up to you: 254 00:18:46,055 --> 00:18:48,464 (Allan Päll) All right, thank you very much, chair. 255 00:18:48,464 --> 00:18:53,489 I would like to very much support many of the claims made by our opposition. 256 00:18:53,489 --> 00:18:58,041 However, when it comes to the question and when it comes to this specific motion, 257 00:18:58,041 --> 00:19:03,378 this house does not believe that 21st century skills aren't being taught, 258 00:19:03,378 --> 00:19:06,958 because, well, let me put it very bluntly and very simply: 259 00:19:06,958 --> 00:19:13,884 the whole notion of what are 21st century skills is often just a bunch of nonsense, 260 00:19:13,884 --> 00:19:16,108 if I would sum it up very briefly. 261 00:19:16,108 --> 00:19:18,675 But let me go into it a bit more. 262 00:19:18,675 --> 00:19:22,837 There are many definitions of what these skills could be 263 00:19:22,837 --> 00:19:28,347 and I fully agree that they do include everything mentioned by the opposition. 264 00:19:28,755 --> 00:19:32,057 However, there are many other ways of looking at it. 265 00:19:32,057 --> 00:19:35,846 So if we are to say whether these are being taught or not, 266 00:19:35,846 --> 00:19:41,083 even if we have a problem of the very definition of what these skills are, 267 00:19:41,083 --> 00:19:45,968 how can we say that they are not being taught so determinedly? 268 00:19:46,913 --> 00:19:52,993 Some of the elements that can be mentioned as 21st century skills 269 00:19:52,993 --> 00:19:58,632 are simple things, as critical thinking, problem-solving, reasoning, analysis, 270 00:19:58,632 --> 00:20:04,394 research skills, creativity, curiosity, perseverance, self-direction 271 00:20:04,394 --> 00:20:07,850 oral and written communication, leadership, 272 00:20:07,850 --> 00:20:13,008 information and communication technology, social justice, literacy, 273 00:20:13,008 --> 00:20:20,833 civic, ethical behavior, global awareness: the list goes on and on and on. 274 00:20:20,833 --> 00:20:26,846 So, indeed, many of those things, perhaps, are not being taught enough, 275 00:20:26,846 --> 00:20:30,432 or specifically enough, in our educational systems. 276 00:20:30,432 --> 00:20:35,163 But that doesn't mean that this is not happening. 277 00:20:35,166 --> 00:20:37,079 Let me ask you one simple question: 278 00:20:37,079 --> 00:20:41,822 If you believe that we don't acquire many of these skills 279 00:20:41,822 --> 00:20:46,710 in our educational environment, be it in a formal setting 280 00:20:46,710 --> 00:20:51,190 or a socializing moment in your school or at university, 281 00:20:51,190 --> 00:20:58,523 would we actually witness the pace of change in society that we are seeing? 282 00:20:58,523 --> 00:21:02,150 Almost all of us have gone through the educational system. 283 00:21:02,150 --> 00:21:07,271 So, we must get a lot of those skills also through that. 284 00:21:07,503 --> 00:21:11,507 I do agree, though, that there is something to be said about 285 00:21:11,507 --> 00:21:17,118 the question of how specific are we when we look at those skills. 286 00:21:17,118 --> 00:21:20,164 Because that is true that most curricula -- 287 00:21:20,534 --> 00:21:26,311 education is very much compartmentalized into very specific subject areas 288 00:21:26,311 --> 00:21:30,659 and we're seeing an increasing trend of those subject areas becoming 289 00:21:30,659 --> 00:21:32,762 more and more specific. 290 00:21:32,762 --> 00:21:38,076 And thus indeed, there is perhaps not enough emphasis on looking at, 291 00:21:38,076 --> 00:21:43,764 or thinking really about are we acquiring all those sets of skills 292 00:21:43,764 --> 00:21:49,279 that are important for our socialization, etc., our technical skills as well, 293 00:21:49,279 --> 00:21:51,421 as mentioned by the opposition. 294 00:21:51,985 --> 00:21:55,397 One of the things that I would like to highlight is that 295 00:21:55,397 --> 00:21:59,911 the schools and universities, and vocational education and training 296 00:21:59,911 --> 00:22:04,076 is not only about the formal learning outcomes 297 00:22:04,076 --> 00:22:07,922 that we are beginning to measure more and more. 298 00:22:07,922 --> 00:22:14,143 It is also about the social environment at that very school or university 299 00:22:14,143 --> 00:22:17,671 that determines a lot of what education gives us. 300 00:22:18,274 --> 00:22:22,521 In terms of specific skills that were mentioned by opposition 301 00:22:22,521 --> 00:22:28,678 and the lack of those skills, there are many variables perhaps to look at. 302 00:22:28,678 --> 00:22:32,486 Yes indeed, we are missing out on engineers, 303 00:22:32,486 --> 00:22:39,541 we are missing out on also staff in medical sciences, in care. 304 00:22:39,541 --> 00:22:41,549 We would need indeed many more people 305 00:22:41,549 --> 00:22:46,036 to have those qualifications, perhaps, indeed. 306 00:22:46,036 --> 00:22:49,831 But there is also a question of what is education for 307 00:22:49,831 --> 00:22:53,668 and what are the requirements on the labor market. 308 00:22:53,668 --> 00:22:56,916 And those two things, although they interact, 309 00:22:56,916 --> 00:22:59,181 they move at different paces. 310 00:22:59,181 --> 00:23:06,257 So sometimes, we start to put blame very easily on the education system 311 00:23:06,257 --> 00:23:10,200 for not delivering specific skills when, for example, 312 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:12,560 the structure of our education 313 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:15,682 -- sorry, the structure of our economy has changed. 314 00:23:15,941 --> 00:23:20,286 And I think here, it's an important remark that we need to look at 315 00:23:20,286 --> 00:23:23,913 different experiences of different countries. 316 00:23:24,275 --> 00:23:27,645 And you see countries where unemployment levels, 317 00:23:27,645 --> 00:23:31,039 even throughout the financial economic crises, 318 00:23:31,039 --> 00:23:35,076 were record low, such as in Germany and Austria. 319 00:23:35,076 --> 00:23:37,925 But if you look at youth unemployment figures, 320 00:23:37,925 --> 00:23:42,386 youth unemployment also among highly educated young people, 321 00:23:42,386 --> 00:23:48,235 in different areas, like Spain or Greece, all around the Mediterranean, 322 00:23:48,235 --> 00:23:50,710 they've been staggeringly high. 323 00:23:50,710 --> 00:23:54,136 And it's not because the education systems failed, 324 00:23:54,136 --> 00:23:58,196 it's because the macro-economic systems failed them there, 325 00:23:58,196 --> 00:24:02,359 in terms of not having enough job creation for all those skills. 326 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:07,844 And of course, there is something to be said that when we train people 327 00:24:07,844 --> 00:24:10,996 and when we train minds to think critically, 328 00:24:10,996 --> 00:24:16,038 to come up with new and innovative ideas, we also change the world through that. 329 00:24:16,038 --> 00:24:19,200 So, we need to understand that interaction. 330 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:24,273 but certainly, when we look at 21st century skills, well, 331 00:24:24,273 --> 00:24:28,914 if we are to define them with this broad set of lists that I noted, 332 00:24:28,914 --> 00:24:33,975 we certainly are gaining those skills, but perhaps, not specifically 333 00:24:33,975 --> 00:24:37,045 and not enough: that, we could agree. 334 00:24:37,990 --> 00:24:40,885 When it comes to preparedness for change, 335 00:24:40,885 --> 00:24:46,036 when are we ever prepared for the change to come, one might wonder. 336 00:24:46,696 --> 00:24:51,043 Indeed, things, technologically, are changing very fast. 337 00:24:51,043 --> 00:24:55,706 And maybe our educational systems are not embracing that technology 338 00:24:55,706 --> 00:24:58,106 at the same pace. 339 00:24:58,106 --> 00:25:01,631 But that doesn't mean that if we would embrace 340 00:25:01,631 --> 00:25:06,562 the use of that technology very quickly, that it would enhance immediately 341 00:25:06,562 --> 00:25:10,560 the skills that we can describe as 21st century skills, 342 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,683 such as, for example, critical thinking. 343 00:25:13,683 --> 00:25:15,517 There are many advocates that say 344 00:25:15,517 --> 00:25:19,640 that we need to replace subject matter teaching completely 345 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,469 with horizontal level approaches. 346 00:25:22,469 --> 00:25:23,705 But that doesn't work. 347 00:25:23,705 --> 00:25:28,479 If we don't know the facts, how do we know that we are on the right path 348 00:25:28,479 --> 00:25:33,289 with our decisions, how can we know what really happened in the past, 349 00:25:33,289 --> 00:25:36,648 and not, how can we verify what is true? 350 00:25:36,648 --> 00:25:41,481 So when we look at the skills, we need to look at the evidences 351 00:25:41,481 --> 00:25:45,792 in terms of teaching preparedness and pedagogy. 352 00:25:45,792 --> 00:25:49,376 And yes, we agree: there is a lot to be done there 353 00:25:49,376 --> 00:25:55,527 in terms of measuring those essential skills of socialization and communication, 354 00:25:55,527 --> 00:26:00,133 building relationships, and it is true that around, it's estimated, 355 00:26:00,133 --> 00:26:03,993 around 50% of jobs in the service sector 356 00:26:03,993 --> 00:26:09,275 are about to disappear in the next 20 years and transform, hopefully, 357 00:26:09,275 --> 00:26:11,476 into something completely new. 358 00:26:11,476 --> 00:26:19,198 Finally, indeed, those skills, we can all agree, 359 00:26:19,198 --> 00:26:20,434 we need those skills. 360 00:26:21,074 --> 00:26:24,849 But there is an important element of young people, 361 00:26:24,849 --> 00:26:28,067 and this is a study that we have done in the European Youth Forum, 362 00:26:28,067 --> 00:26:34,725 that they gain a lot of those skills also outside, in non-formal education settings. 363 00:26:34,725 --> 00:26:39,162 And the key here is to see if we can bring those experiences 364 00:26:39,162 --> 00:26:42,382 that young people gain from youth organizations, activism, 365 00:26:42,382 --> 00:26:47,061 into the formal education setting, and thus make it much more open 366 00:26:47,061 --> 00:26:53,790 to recognizing those prior experiences as well, to overcome this shortage. 367 00:26:53,790 --> 00:26:54,909 Thank you very much. 368 00:26:54,909 --> 00:27:02,481 (Applause) 369 00:27:02,481 --> 00:27:04,074 (Moderator) Thank you very much, Allan. 370 00:27:04,074 --> 00:27:09,186 Our next speaker who is going to speak for the motion is Pedro De Bruyckere 371 00:27:10,434 --> 00:27:13,593 who is an educational scientist 372 00:27:13,593 --> 00:27:17,806 and he has worked in Ghent in Belgium since 2001. 373 00:27:17,806 --> 00:27:23,932 He co-wrote two books which debunk popular myths on generation Y 374 00:27:23,932 --> 00:27:25,501 and generation Z, 375 00:27:25,501 --> 00:27:30,513 and the latest one was entitled "I was 10 in 2015". Pedro: 376 00:27:31,483 --> 00:27:34,230 (Pedro De Bruyckere) OK. Good evening. 377 00:27:34,230 --> 00:27:38,397 I'm a teacher, I'm a teacher trainer, so I'm not used to standing still. 378 00:27:38,397 --> 00:27:41,796 So if you don't mind, I will move. 379 00:27:42,474 --> 00:27:46,220 Allan, thank you very much for making my point. 380 00:27:46,810 --> 00:27:50,846 I have to explain: I have to agree, I've written a book about it, 381 00:27:50,846 --> 00:27:54,557 there's no such thing as 21st century skills. 382 00:27:55,171 --> 00:27:57,355 And that's why they need to be taught. 383 00:27:58,164 --> 00:27:59,357 I have to explain this. 384 00:27:59,357 --> 00:28:05,561 You know, if we go back in time, to see the origins of the 21st century skills, 385 00:28:05,561 --> 00:28:09,846 you'll end up with the liberal arts, the Septem Artes Liberales. 386 00:28:10,329 --> 00:28:14,915 Rhetoric, what we are doing right here, that's for me ancient history, 387 00:28:14,915 --> 00:28:16,239 but still needed today. 388 00:28:17,023 --> 00:28:21,267 But the question is, is this still being taught in school? 389 00:28:21,576 --> 00:28:27,271 Because, like ....... (check name) says, moreover we get a focus on the Three R's 390 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:30,639 -- Reading, 'Riting, 'Rithmetics -- 391 00:28:30,639 --> 00:28:35,042 while most of the young people are looking to Snapchats. 392 00:28:35,734 --> 00:28:41,542 But because of the focus, because we want to test stuff, 393 00:28:42,759 --> 00:28:46,077 the more important things are being forgotten! 394 00:28:46,637 --> 00:28:50,231 Rhetoric, philosophy, for me, crucial. 395 00:28:51,616 --> 00:28:54,493 To be honest, then, you don't have to look at Ancient Times, 396 00:28:54,493 --> 00:28:56,562 than you have to look at Medieval Times, 397 00:28:56,562 --> 00:28:59,810 because then philosophy was added to the Liberal Arts. 398 00:29:00,303 --> 00:29:03,999 So we need to train our children because it's great to say: 399 00:29:03,999 --> 00:29:05,990 "Look at us: we've done it." 400 00:29:06,468 --> 00:29:11,905 Yes, but we are not talking about us, because in 20 years' time, they will -- 401 00:29:11,905 --> 00:29:18,068 we will be old, boring and other people need to sit there 402 00:29:18,068 --> 00:29:22,237 and beyond stage, using rhetoric. 403 00:29:22,237 --> 00:29:24,162 So we need to prepare them. 404 00:29:25,016 --> 00:29:27,265 I'm not sure if we're doing a great job. 405 00:29:29,414 --> 00:29:31,662 For instance, if we talk about technology, 406 00:29:31,662 --> 00:29:35,361 technology is often like sex ed in education. 407 00:29:35,361 --> 00:29:38,107 You know, you talk about all the dangerous stuff 408 00:29:38,497 --> 00:29:41,719 and you never talk about the fun stuff. 409 00:29:43,837 --> 00:29:47,392 You know, it's very simple: 410 00:29:47,392 --> 00:29:54,239 "Don't do this, don't do that, certainly don't try that! Go ahead!" 411 00:29:55,709 --> 00:30:00,401 And another -- for instance, McKinsey, the McKinsey report, 2014 McKinsey report, 412 00:30:00,401 --> 00:30:03,559 said there is -- and I agree again with you both -- 413 00:30:03,559 --> 00:30:04,762 there is a mismatch. 414 00:30:04,762 --> 00:30:08,241 There is a mismatch between what children study in school 415 00:30:08,241 --> 00:30:11,599 and which topics they choose, and what we need in the economy. 416 00:30:12,069 --> 00:30:17,348 But at the same time, the employers said: 417 00:30:17,348 --> 00:30:21,671 "You know, don't train them to a specific job 418 00:30:21,671 --> 00:30:26,911 "but train them in strategic and communication skills." 419 00:30:27,748 --> 00:30:32,041 OK, they have been around for ages but they are still important. 420 00:30:32,639 --> 00:30:35,869 But what do we do, for instance, in many schools? 421 00:30:35,869 --> 00:30:39,322 I've been in schools in Holland, in Germany, in -- 422 00:30:39,322 --> 00:30:44,106 you know, we teach them how to write a job application. 423 00:30:44,419 --> 00:30:49,477 We teach them how to perform a talk for a job. 424 00:30:49,477 --> 00:30:53,781 Do we teach them to write a LinkedIn profile? 425 00:30:53,781 --> 00:30:57,618 No, what we say is "Never post a drunk photo on Facebook, 426 00:30:58,152 --> 00:31:01,299 "because people will search you." 427 00:31:01,299 --> 00:31:03,219 What we don't say is: 428 00:31:03,219 --> 00:31:07,206 "You know what? Post something good about yourself on Facebook, 429 00:31:07,206 --> 00:31:09,092 "that isn't a selfie." 430 00:31:09,596 --> 00:31:11,843 But we think well, they will do this. 431 00:31:12,221 --> 00:31:15,451 Actually, for instance research by Jan van Dek (check): 432 00:31:15,451 --> 00:31:19,235 that's one of the stuff that our kids don't know. 433 00:31:19,235 --> 00:31:22,162 And if we don't teach them, who will? 434 00:31:23,033 --> 00:31:28,225 So that's my point: we need to teach them basic skills like Jo said: 435 00:31:28,225 --> 00:31:30,796 communication skills, strategic skills. 436 00:31:30,796 --> 00:31:35,785 And if you want to call them 21st century skills because, by accident, 437 00:31:35,785 --> 00:31:39,680 we're living in the 21st century, so be it. 438 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,078 (Applause) Thank you. 439 00:31:42,078 --> 00:31:49,682 (Applause) 440 00:31:50,211 --> 00:31:52,629 (Moderator) OK, thank you very much, Pedro. 441 00:31:53,086 --> 00:31:59,099 Our final speaker who is going to speak against the motion is Miles Berry, 442 00:31:59,099 --> 00:32:02,846 who is the principal lecturer in computing education 443 00:32:02,846 --> 00:32:06,624 at the University of Roehampton in the UK: Miles. 444 00:32:07,104 --> 00:32:09,122 (Miles Berry) Pleasure to be here, really is. 445 00:32:09,521 --> 00:32:12,251 Philip and Gudrun, where are you guys? 446 00:32:13,073 --> 00:32:15,322 OK, on the Twitter thing you say: 447 00:32:15,322 --> 00:32:18,883 "We need to talk about what the purpose of education is, what is education for?" 448 00:32:18,883 --> 00:32:20,385 And that's where I want to start. 449 00:32:20,385 --> 00:32:24,565 I want to move back from the motion, to think about what education is for. 450 00:32:24,872 --> 00:32:28,342 And to do that, we need some understanding of what education is. 451 00:32:28,882 --> 00:32:32,668 I've been in education for over 40 years now. 452 00:32:32,907 --> 00:32:35,239 But even so, I checked. 453 00:32:35,239 --> 00:32:40,947 It's the culture or development of personal knowledge, or understanding, 454 00:32:41,401 --> 00:32:46,426 growth or character, moral and social qualities, etc., 455 00:32:46,712 --> 00:32:50,708 as contrasting with the imparting of a skill. 456 00:32:51,045 --> 00:32:53,319 (blurred: check) ... is 457 00:32:53,319 --> 00:32:58,540 OK, there's definitely a place for imparting skills, 458 00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:03,904 but that's training, not education, and there is a difference. 459 00:33:03,904 --> 00:33:08,720 My Roehampton students study education, but they are trained to teach. 460 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:13,058 England's new computing curriculum educates people about the principles, 461 00:33:13,058 --> 00:33:18,406 the principles of computer science: (inaudible: check), I tell you. 462 00:33:18,406 --> 00:33:22,026 (laughter) ... technology, I think the technology ran on me tonight, 463 00:33:22,026 --> 00:33:23,446 it's all right I'll give it... 464 00:33:23,446 --> 00:33:25,368 (off) (unintelligible) 465 00:33:25,368 --> 00:33:31,306 (Berry) 21st century skill -- on knowledge -- (laughter) 466 00:33:31,306 --> 00:33:35,036 Knowledge that these things are the wrong shape for my head: never mind. 467 00:33:35,036 --> 00:33:38,605 OK, so: England's new computing curriculum that Jo has alluded to 468 00:33:38,605 --> 00:33:41,957 educates people about the principles of computer science, 469 00:33:41,957 --> 00:33:44,684 whereas we used to train them to use Office software. 470 00:33:44,684 --> 00:33:46,066 Or think about sex. 471 00:33:46,066 --> 00:33:51,606 Look, not like that: we rightly include sex education on the curriculum in schools 472 00:33:51,606 --> 00:33:59,856 but we typically don't include training. (Laughter) Important skills. 473 00:34:02,541 --> 00:34:07,153 Do without the microphones. (Laughter) ... very well. 474 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:13,000 In England, our Education Act says what education is for. 475 00:34:13,550 --> 00:34:18,277 Firstly, it's to promote the spiritual, moral, cultural, mental and physical 476 00:34:18,277 --> 00:34:21,120 development of pupils and of society. 477 00:34:21,468 --> 00:34:24,669 And it's to prepare pupils for the opportunities, responsibilities 478 00:34:24,669 --> 00:34:27,020 and experiences of later life. 479 00:34:27,403 --> 00:34:30,700 What else could education possibly be for? 480 00:34:30,700 --> 00:34:33,763 In that, you just got to love laws that require you to do 481 00:34:33,763 --> 00:34:35,911 what you'd want to do anyhow. 482 00:34:36,372 --> 00:34:39,835 There does remain a question about how best to prepare pupils 483 00:34:39,835 --> 00:34:42,641 for these opportunities, responsibilities and experiences. 484 00:34:43,079 --> 00:34:48,538 I think the nob of the motion this evening is about whether this should be done 485 00:34:48,538 --> 00:34:51,799 through some sort of training in 21st century skills 486 00:34:52,153 --> 00:34:56,831 or by passing on the knowledge, understanding and wisdom 487 00:34:56,831 --> 00:35:01,265 of our generation to the next and I'd say, the latter. 488 00:35:01,650 --> 00:35:05,992 I've no problem with skills per se in teaching. 489 00:35:05,992 --> 00:35:09,669 Behavior management is a skill, coding is a skill, 490 00:35:09,669 --> 00:35:13,224 so is searching for things on Google, or even Bing. 491 00:35:13,552 --> 00:35:17,912 OK. I've some problem, though, with the notion that there are 21st century skills 492 00:35:17,912 --> 00:35:20,033 and I'd agree with you on that. 493 00:35:20,033 --> 00:35:24,074 But both of you have done a fine job of demolishing that notion already. 494 00:35:24,635 --> 00:35:29,837 I've also some problem with the skills -- with the notion that skills can transfer. 495 00:35:30,318 --> 00:35:33,468 Skills are about accomplishing something. 496 00:35:33,943 --> 00:35:36,644 There's a context to the skills, 497 00:35:36,644 --> 00:35:41,278 and I think we diminish specific skills by attempting to generalize them. 498 00:35:41,575 --> 00:35:47,409 It isn't critical thinking, it's thinking critically about something. 499 00:35:47,737 --> 00:35:52,561 It's not creativity, it's creating something. 500 00:35:52,561 --> 00:35:54,238 And it's not communication, 501 00:35:54,238 --> 00:35:58,218 it's communicating something through some media. 502 00:35:58,683 --> 00:36:00,915 The 'something' here matters. 503 00:36:01,388 --> 00:36:06,712 It's really not possible to teach skills in the abstract fashion, without context. 504 00:36:06,712 --> 00:36:08,942 And the context is king. 505 00:36:09,495 --> 00:36:11,366 Whatever the specific domain, 506 00:36:11,755 --> 00:36:16,316 knowledge of that domain is necessary for expert skills. 507 00:36:17,353 --> 00:36:21,341 My main problem, though, is that we've only a little time in school. 508 00:36:21,341 --> 00:36:25,677 We've other things to teach and our students have other things to learn: 509 00:36:25,677 --> 00:36:27,372 things like knowledge 510 00:36:27,782 --> 00:36:29,185 and understanding 511 00:36:29,489 --> 00:36:30,647 and wisdom. 512 00:36:31,059 --> 00:36:36,797 Without these, skills are unlikely to be of much practical benefit. 513 00:36:37,258 --> 00:36:38,846 Stephen Downes is here. 514 00:36:39,564 --> 00:36:45,162 Well, nodding in his direction, I'd say, learning is about connecting things: 515 00:36:45,162 --> 00:36:47,504 neurons, ideas, people. 516 00:36:47,504 --> 00:36:49,009 The computer scientists get this, 517 00:36:49,009 --> 00:36:54,554 Google's page rank algorithm relies not so much on the content of the page, 518 00:36:54,554 --> 00:36:56,709 as the links between the pages. 519 00:36:57,052 --> 00:37:01,844 The thing is then, the new stuff has to be connected to something. 520 00:37:01,844 --> 00:37:05,280 Otherwise, it's just isolated factoids. 521 00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:08,755 We can't make sense of it, we can't use new knowledge 522 00:37:09,055 --> 00:37:14,356 unless it's integrated into our existing mental maps, our schema. 523 00:37:14,667 --> 00:37:18,678 Put simply: it takes knowledge to gain knowledge. 524 00:37:19,268 --> 00:37:25,268 This apples to each of us as individuals, but it's also how civilization grows. 525 00:37:25,628 --> 00:37:27,727 Human achievement is a cumulative thing. 526 00:37:27,727 --> 00:37:31,621 New knowledge doesn't normally contradict what's gone before. 527 00:37:32,211 --> 00:37:33,752 It builds on it. 528 00:37:33,752 --> 00:37:35,880 If Newton saw further than others had, 529 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:39,123 it was because he stood on the shoulders of giants. 530 00:37:39,757 --> 00:37:42,098 What hope would there be for the next generation 531 00:37:42,098 --> 00:37:45,715 if they had to discover everything afresh for themselves? 532 00:37:46,250 --> 00:37:48,937 The consequence of our building on what's gone before 533 00:37:48,937 --> 00:37:52,072 is that the pace of cultural, scientific and technological change 534 00:37:52,072 --> 00:37:54,712 accelerates exponentially. 535 00:37:55,027 --> 00:38:00,210 But even allowing for this acceleration is knowledge, understanding and wisdom 536 00:38:00,210 --> 00:38:02,191 which have done the test of time. 537 00:38:02,191 --> 00:38:04,391 Less so, skills. 538 00:38:04,391 --> 00:38:09,673 Expect new inventions and discoveries over the next 85 years 539 00:38:09,673 --> 00:38:12,562 and new practical skills to go with them. 540 00:38:12,881 --> 00:38:17,799 But don't expect the foundational shared knowledge of our civilization 541 00:38:17,799 --> 00:38:19,446 to become irrelevant. 542 00:38:19,916 --> 00:38:24,206 Indeed, it's on this very foundation that the new knowledge will be built. 543 00:38:24,716 --> 00:38:28,729 It's not 21st century skills that young people need. 544 00:38:28,729 --> 00:38:32,312 It's 21st century knowledge, understanding and wisdom. 545 00:38:33,048 --> 00:38:35,991 Time, I think, for a quick case study. 546 00:38:36,674 --> 00:38:40,159 The most successful education systems and the top universities 547 00:38:40,159 --> 00:38:44,917 seem to organize their curriculum around well knowledge-based subjects. 548 00:38:44,917 --> 00:38:50,430 England's new National Curriculum is quite explicitly a knowledge-based one. 549 00:38:50,430 --> 00:38:54,354 It sets out to provide pupils with an introduction to the essential knowledge 550 00:38:54,354 --> 00:38:56,287 they need to be educated as citizens, 551 00:38:56,287 --> 00:39:00,401 and to introduce them to the best which has been thought and said. 552 00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:03,777 One of the most radical things we've done in that curriculum, 553 00:39:03,777 --> 00:39:06,149 which many see as rather reactionary, 554 00:39:06,149 --> 00:39:10,146 is to have replaced the old ICT with a new subject: computing. 555 00:39:10,713 --> 00:39:13,549 This includes an introduction to the principles of computer science 556 00:39:13,549 --> 00:39:15,179 for all, from age 5 up. 557 00:39:15,179 --> 00:39:16,996 It has been my privilege to be part of the team 558 00:39:16,996 --> 00:39:19,287 designing and implementing the new subject. 559 00:39:19,602 --> 00:39:23,151 Under the old curriculum we offered a good grounding in tech skills, 560 00:39:23,151 --> 00:39:25,408 finding this online, making a presentation, 561 00:39:25,408 --> 00:39:27,616 typing up stories, articles and reports. 562 00:39:27,616 --> 00:39:33,045 Sometimes, even making a spreadsheet, often about having a party. 563 00:39:33,708 --> 00:39:36,558 Do people really use spreadsheets to plan parties? 564 00:39:36,805 --> 00:39:40,933 Are these fun parties? Are these -- OK (laughs) 565 00:39:41,502 --> 00:39:44,624 It was fine: pupils moved on to work or the next phase of education 566 00:39:44,624 --> 00:39:46,725 with some competence and confidence 567 00:39:47,119 --> 00:39:49,768 and broadly speaking, were digitally literate. 568 00:39:50,214 --> 00:39:52,091 Our audit of new students at Roehampton's 569 00:39:52,091 --> 00:39:54,525 suggests that broad portfolio skills, (check) 570 00:39:54,525 --> 00:39:58,103 two thirds regarded themselves as competent, proficient or experts. 571 00:39:58,485 --> 00:40:02,478 That said, it was all too often a bit -- well, dull. 572 00:40:03,034 --> 00:40:05,912 There's a limit, or at least there should be a limit 573 00:40:05,912 --> 00:40:08,274 to the number of times you can find something out on the internet 574 00:40:08,274 --> 00:40:10,132 and make a presentation about it. 575 00:40:10,132 --> 00:40:13,995 Generally, it did precious little to provide any real knowledge 576 00:40:13,995 --> 00:40:18,957 or understanding of computation, information theory or digital technology. 577 00:40:19,327 --> 00:40:24,242 In the same audit, less than 15% of my new students 578 00:40:24,242 --> 00:40:27,243 rated their understanding of digital technology 579 00:40:27,243 --> 00:40:29,792 as competent, proficient or expert. 580 00:40:30,092 --> 00:40:31,478 So we started again. 581 00:40:31,478 --> 00:40:33,933 We built on the idea of computing as having three elements: 582 00:40:33,933 --> 00:40:37,165 computer science, information technology and digital literacy, 583 00:40:37,165 --> 00:40:41,200 the foundations, applications and implications of the discipline. 584 00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:43,469 We took a leaf out of William Morris's book: 585 00:40:43,469 --> 00:40:46,732 "Have nothing in your house that you do not know to be useful 586 00:40:46,732 --> 00:40:48,488 "or believe to be beautiful." 587 00:40:48,488 --> 00:40:51,997 And built a curriculum of things that would be useful, 588 00:40:51,997 --> 00:40:54,510 but also things that were interesting. 589 00:40:54,510 --> 00:40:57,647 We took a view that the best way to prepare pupils for a future 590 00:40:57,647 --> 00:41:02,708 in which digital technology looks quite likely to remain important 591 00:41:02,708 --> 00:41:06,400 was through providing a firm computer science foundation, 592 00:41:06,735 --> 00:41:12,440 things like logic, algorithms, abstraction, networks, programming. 593 00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:19,356 Yes, coding would be important, but not as a vocational skill for the IT industry, 594 00:41:19,356 --> 00:41:22,550 but as the lab work for computing, the medium through which 595 00:41:22,550 --> 00:41:25,634 the ideas of computer science are created and expressed. 596 00:41:25,634 --> 00:41:29,031 Computing became part of our curriculum 15 months ago. 597 00:41:29,338 --> 00:41:32,670 It's early days, but early indications are very positive. 598 00:41:32,995 --> 00:41:35,803 Teachers' professional development has been a challenge. 599 00:41:36,325 --> 00:41:41,321 But this hasn't been a challenge about pedagogical or technical skills. 600 00:41:41,585 --> 00:41:44,631 Teachers know how to teach and know how to use technology. 601 00:41:44,631 --> 00:41:47,773 It's just that they didn't know much computer science. 602 00:41:47,773 --> 00:41:49,954 They are, by and large, willing to learn, 603 00:41:49,954 --> 00:41:52,509 and many are quite enjoying the fast challenge. 604 00:41:53,037 --> 00:41:56,364 I don't want to leave you with the idea that I think 605 00:41:56,364 --> 00:41:59,640 knowledge is the only thing that matters in education. 606 00:41:59,897 --> 00:42:03,441 Of course it isn't: character matters. 607 00:42:03,717 --> 00:42:06,697 I'm talking here about traits and attitudes, 608 00:42:07,118 --> 00:42:15,045 things such as curiosity and creativity and courage of our 4-year old daughter. 609 00:42:15,045 --> 00:42:17,357 She's a curious character. 610 00:42:17,357 --> 00:42:21,259 She still has this sense of wonder in the world about her, 611 00:42:21,273 --> 00:42:24,115 that sense of Wow when she sees or hears something new, 612 00:42:24,115 --> 00:42:27,076 and still a willingness to explore, experiment and play. 613 00:42:27,076 --> 00:42:30,404 She's at a great little primary school and I shouldn't worry. 614 00:42:30,879 --> 00:42:35,162 But I do worry that her schooling might get in the way of her curiosity 615 00:42:35,699 --> 00:42:37,043 when it ought to be nurturing this. 616 00:42:37,043 --> 00:42:39,714 As Plowden had it back in '67, 617 00:42:39,714 --> 00:42:42,672 one of the main educational tasks of the primary school 618 00:42:42,672 --> 00:42:47,808 is to build on and strengthen children's intrinsic interest in learning 619 00:42:47,808 --> 00:42:50,084 and lead them to learn for themselves. 620 00:42:50,413 --> 00:42:51,478 (Moderator, off) 21st century skill? 621 00:42:51,685 --> 00:42:53,501 (Berry) But knowledge matters here. 622 00:42:53,890 --> 00:42:58,048 It's as Sophie learns more that I hope she'll want to learn even more. 623 00:42:58,479 --> 00:43:05,032 With literacy motivation, and good WiFi, she can teach herself almost anything, 624 00:43:05,032 --> 00:43:06,004 and does. 625 00:43:06,421 --> 00:43:07,992 Creativity matters. 626 00:43:08,534 --> 00:43:10,673 We learn not just though listening, reading and exploring, 627 00:43:10,673 --> 00:43:12,642 but also through making. 628 00:43:12,932 --> 00:43:16,386 I don't think there's some generic creativity skill, here. 629 00:43:16,386 --> 00:43:19,425 But I'd like my daughter to be creative in her music and her computing 630 00:43:19,425 --> 00:43:21,226 and her maths, and so on. 631 00:43:21,543 --> 00:43:25,811 She's been making things for a while now, but as her knowledge grows, 632 00:43:25,811 --> 00:43:29,705 I'm looking forward to her exploring and drawing on that in her creative work. 633 00:43:29,705 --> 00:43:31,200 Finally, courage. 634 00:43:31,670 --> 00:43:35,300 She's a fearless explorer, with tons of self-confidence. 635 00:43:35,300 --> 00:43:36,742 (Off whisper, inaudible) (Berry) OK. 636 00:43:36,742 --> 00:43:38,984 I want her school to encourage that. 637 00:43:38,984 --> 00:43:43,080 More importantly, I want her to have the courage to tell the truth, 638 00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:46,659 to stand up for those who can't stand up for themselves 639 00:43:46,659 --> 00:43:50,166 and to do the right thing, even if it's not the popular thing. 640 00:43:50,785 --> 00:43:55,666 So, what should we be doing to best prepare young people 641 00:43:55,666 --> 00:43:59,557 for the opportunities, responsibilities and experiences of later life? 642 00:44:00,662 --> 00:44:02,241 Passing on knowledge. 643 00:44:02,681 --> 00:44:04,318 Nurturing character. 644 00:44:04,753 --> 00:44:06,810 Sounds a bit old-fashioned, but honestly, 645 00:44:06,810 --> 00:44:10,395 what better preparation for the rest of the 21st century? 646 00:44:10,645 --> 00:44:18,899 Thank you. (Applause). 647 00:44:18,899 --> 00:44:20,669 (Moderator) Thank you very much, Miles. 648 00:44:20,669 --> 00:44:26,907 Right, it's now over to you and I think we've got about 25 minutes 649 00:44:26,907 --> 00:44:29,478 for questions and contributions. 650 00:44:29,478 --> 00:44:33,406 If you ask a question, I'm going to ask our panel speakers 651 00:44:33,406 --> 00:44:36,872 not to answer it directly but to deal with it in their summing up, 652 00:44:36,872 --> 00:44:40,909 just so that we can ensure that we have a decent flow. 653 00:44:41,365 --> 00:44:46,137 And if you make a contribution, please, try to keep it fairly brief, well, brief, 654 00:44:46,137 --> 00:44:48,187 so that other people have a chance as well. 655 00:44:48,187 --> 00:44:50,875 And you've been very well-behaved so far. 656 00:44:50,875 --> 00:44:54,590 Please don't feel that you need to be quite so well-behaved now, 657 00:44:54,590 --> 00:44:56,437 but now is your opportunity. 658 00:44:56,437 --> 00:44:59,316 If you want to speak, please just raise your hand. 659 00:44:59,316 --> 00:45:03,146 Bear in mind that if you're at the back, it is slightly difficult to see you. 660 00:45:03,146 --> 00:45:05,033 And can you, if I call you, 661 00:45:05,033 --> 00:45:08,313 please can you just wait till the microphone turns up. 662 00:45:08,313 --> 00:45:10,195 Who'd like to go first? 663 00:45:13,827 --> 00:45:17,372 Would anybody like to ask a question or comment? 664 00:45:17,816 --> 00:45:20,082 Yes, at the back on the left, there. 665 00:45:25,268 --> 00:45:30,726 (Participant 1) My question is short, particularly for Allan, I think. 666 00:45:31,296 --> 00:45:35,797 Why are critical thinking skills important in the 21st century? 667 00:45:39,168 --> 00:45:43,089 (Moderator, off) OK. So that's one for Allan to deal with in his summing up. 668 00:45:44,168 --> 00:45:48,607 Anybody else, any-- Yes, over on the right there, Yannis (check) 669 00:45:50,434 --> 00:45:51,450 (Participant 2) Thank you very much. 670 00:45:51,450 --> 00:45:55,044 I think both sides of the motion are saying it's not working. 671 00:45:55,654 --> 00:46:01,034 So who's to blame, who or what is to blame or who or what must we change? 672 00:46:04,243 --> 00:46:05,951 (Moderator, off) Thank you for that. 673 00:46:06,503 --> 00:46:10,346 Right, I'm looking for some contributions now, somebody who's -- 674 00:46:10,346 --> 00:46:15,592 Yes, lady there, on the, just by the aisle, there. 675 00:46:15,998 --> 00:46:17,527 (Participant 3) Whoops! OK. 676 00:46:17,527 --> 00:46:20,156 Hi, I just have a comment to all of you. 677 00:46:20,507 --> 00:46:24,013 I don't see a huge difference between your positions, 678 00:46:24,013 --> 00:46:28,360 because you always seem to say, it's important to have these, 679 00:46:28,683 --> 00:46:29,974 whatever you call them. 680 00:46:30,332 --> 00:46:35,149 Skills is a kind of a talent that you have when you are born, or whatever. 681 00:46:35,149 --> 00:46:39,565 You mentioned those things are important, so what is actually the difference? 682 00:46:39,565 --> 00:46:42,002 We just need to promote an environment 683 00:46:42,002 --> 00:46:48,587 to let people develop those types of skills or talents. 684 00:46:52,207 --> 00:46:54,969 (Moderator) Yes, also on the aisle there. 685 00:46:54,973 --> 00:46:56,821 (Participant 4) Thank you. I want to -- 686 00:46:56,821 --> 00:46:59,597 (Moderator) Would you mind just introduce yourself briefly; 687 00:46:59,597 --> 00:47:02,268 actually, if people would just say who they are and where they're from, 688 00:47:02,268 --> 00:47:03,763 that would be helpful as well. (Participant 4) OK. 689 00:47:03,763 --> 00:47:06,825 I'm Denise Gaspard- Richard, I'm from the University 690 00:47:06,825 --> 00:47:09,673 of the West Indies and Caribbean-- (Moderator) Thank you. 691 00:47:09,673 --> 00:47:10,870 (Participant 4) ..... Campus. 692 00:47:10,870 --> 00:47:16,204 The board said to me, seemed to be saying somewhat of the same thing. 693 00:47:16,204 --> 00:47:18,805 As you all were speaking, I kept thinking 694 00:47:18,805 --> 00:47:21,908 about some employers' surveys that we have done 695 00:47:21,908 --> 00:47:25,149 over a period of time in the Caribbean, 696 00:47:25,149 --> 00:47:27,113 where the ..... (check), 697 00:47:27,113 --> 00:47:32,438 soft skills are not really being taught at University. 698 00:47:32,438 --> 00:47:35,893 So when a student comes out in today work environment, 699 00:47:35,893 --> 00:47:38,844 they can't carry out a decent conversation 700 00:47:38,844 --> 00:47:40,587 and therefore they can't call up 701 00:47:40,587 --> 00:47:44,955 someone who is not getting the kind of service that they need, 702 00:47:44,955 --> 00:47:49,532 they don't know how to communicate in .............. (check) OK? 703 00:47:49,532 --> 00:47:54,235 So when I listened to Jo, I heard some of that coming out 704 00:47:54,235 --> 00:47:58,354 and I'm wondering if, probably, we have simply substituted 705 00:47:58,354 --> 00:48:02,992 social skills, or soft skills to call it 21st century skills. 706 00:48:02,992 --> 00:48:05,178 So we have more or less seen the same thing 707 00:48:05,478 --> 00:48:11,119 as we were seeing before we came up with this terminology. Thank you. 708 00:48:12,232 --> 00:48:13,987 (Moderator) Thank you for that. Anybody else? 709 00:48:13,987 --> 00:48:18,908 Yes, in the front row, there. Just down here, please. 710 00:48:18,908 --> 00:48:23,594 Is there a mike here in the front row on my right? That's it. 711 00:48:25,514 --> 00:48:27,304 (Participant 5) Thank you. My name is Anne DeLorean (check) 712 00:48:27,304 --> 00:48:29,205 from the European Schoolnet in Brussels. 713 00:48:29,673 --> 00:48:36,717 A comment: I think maybe we are missing the adaptive nature of human beings, 714 00:48:37,356 --> 00:48:42,664 because society has progressed through the ages because -- 715 00:48:42,664 --> 00:48:45,982 just because we are adaptive. 716 00:48:46,509 --> 00:48:51,128 We have not always had to be taught everything we do, 717 00:48:51,128 --> 00:48:54,071 but we have to discover it a little bit. 718 00:48:54,719 --> 00:49:03,510 I think, as educators, what we need to do is provide the -- at the area or the ethos 719 00:49:03,510 --> 00:49:07,094 where this discovery can happen, 720 00:49:07,593 --> 00:49:12,879 not necessarily that we have to provide the lessons to do it 721 00:49:13,397 --> 00:49:17,354 but provide the means of discovery. 722 00:49:18,976 --> 00:49:23,792 (Moderator) Thank you. Let's have another one on the front, here. 723 00:49:24,201 --> 00:49:27,484 Lady on the front row on the left hand side here. 724 00:49:31,247 --> 00:49:35,048 (Participant 6) My name is Nikki Spalding, from Higher Education Academy in the UK. 725 00:49:35,509 --> 00:49:38,467 I was wondering what do you think is driving the rhetoric 726 00:49:39,097 --> 00:49:41,176 behind 21st century skills the most? 727 00:49:41,176 --> 00:49:46,522 Is it happy individuals and learners? Happy employers? Happy society? 728 00:49:46,522 --> 00:49:48,716 Or happy Government Treasury? 729 00:49:51,241 --> 00:49:52,795 (Moderator) Thank you for that. 730 00:49:53,566 --> 00:49:57,443 Yes, towards the back there, on the right hand side. 731 00:50:09,776 --> 00:50:11,589 (Participant 7) Lydia .... (check), Poland. 732 00:50:12,065 --> 00:50:17,018 You have concentrated on education of young people. 733 00:50:17,018 --> 00:50:21,758 And what about education of people at your age? 734 00:50:21,758 --> 00:50:28,840 Who and how (laugher) should you educate these 21st century skills or knowledge? 735 00:50:29,804 --> 00:50:34,076 (Moderator) Very good question indeed. So, we'll come back to that one. 736 00:50:34,076 --> 00:50:40,872 Yes, we have a number on this side, in the -- where has the microphone gone? 737 00:50:40,872 --> 00:50:46,381 Yes, just at the front of this little block there, thank you. 738 00:50:46,381 --> 00:50:50,311 (Participant 8) Hi, my name is Mike Rauser (check), from McKinsey and Company in Germany. 739 00:50:50,670 --> 00:50:52,715 And my question is directed to Mr Berry. 740 00:50:53,247 --> 00:50:56,882 Where you've stressed teaching specific skills, 741 00:50:58,751 --> 00:51:01,876 please correct me if I'm wrong, about teaching specific skills in school. 742 00:51:02,167 --> 00:51:05,840 How do you account for situations where 743 00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:09,903 a skill that may not even have been invented yet 744 00:51:09,903 --> 00:51:12,387 -- I'm thinking about say, from an 1980 view point, 745 00:51:12,707 --> 00:51:17,001 15 years in the future, that nobody knew what the internet was. 746 00:51:17,001 --> 00:51:20,727 Nobody knew it was going to be in there 15 years later. 747 00:51:21,448 --> 00:51:23,319 OK, very limited. 748 00:51:26,710 --> 00:51:30,399 (Off) I think the internet was invented in 1969. 749 00:51:30,399 --> 00:51:34,154 (P8) (people speaking together) OK, I understand that, but in general-- 750 00:51:34,844 --> 00:51:39,275 (Moderator) Can we -- If you could just try to make it a contribution 751 00:51:39,275 --> 00:51:42,236 and then they can respond in their final remarks. 752 00:51:42,241 --> 00:51:46,029 (P8) Sure enough (Moderator) OK (overlap) 753 00:51:46,029 --> 00:51:48,817 (P8) -- that we don't know about 15 years into the future, 754 00:51:48,817 --> 00:51:53,107 or skills that are here now, that may no longer be there 15 years into the future. 755 00:51:53,634 --> 00:51:55,437 Let's hope that's a little clearer. 756 00:51:55,437 --> 00:51:56,601 (Moderator) OK, thank you. 757 00:51:56,601 --> 00:52:00,444 Can I have some more contributions, rather than questions? 758 00:52:00,454 --> 00:52:03,755 Anybody like to give their opinion? Yes, on the -- 759 00:52:04,405 --> 00:52:06,635 I think about the third row here. 760 00:52:08,835 --> 00:52:10,885 (Participant 9) So actually it's phrased as a question, 761 00:52:10,885 --> 00:52:15,773 but think of it as a contribution. (Moderator) Yes (laughter). 762 00:52:15,773 --> 00:52:17,987 A rhetorical contribution. 763 00:52:18,248 --> 00:52:24,703 (P9) So all of you have been arguing for or against 21st century skills 764 00:52:24,703 --> 00:52:26,167 very convincingly. 765 00:52:27,795 --> 00:52:30,848 But you were always talking about what they are, 766 00:52:31,437 --> 00:52:33,749 and not about what they aren't. 767 00:52:34,029 --> 00:52:38,241 So maybe, if the question is phrased a bit differently, 768 00:52:41,607 --> 00:52:46,463 you would need to make a more difficult point, so: 769 00:52:47,190 --> 00:52:50,486 what do you think are skills that are no longer relevant, 770 00:52:50,486 --> 00:52:56,517 or knowledge that is no longer relevant now in the 21st century, 771 00:52:56,521 --> 00:52:59,954 and that was indeed very important 200 years ago? 772 00:53:00,385 --> 00:53:03,158 (Moderator) What would your answer to your own question be? 773 00:53:03,164 --> 00:53:06,824 (P9) I would have to think about it. (Moderator) Right. (Laughter) 774 00:53:08,106 --> 00:53:11,678 Right, at the -- right at the back, we've got two hands up there. 775 00:53:12,248 --> 00:53:18,163 At the back, somebody with a dark-colored jacket on -- that's it. 776 00:53:18,531 --> 00:53:20,058 (Participant 10) Mike Brown, 777 00:53:20,058 --> 00:53:23,035 from the National Institute of Digital Learning in Ireland, 778 00:53:23,035 --> 00:53:25,994 A question, but equally a contribution. 779 00:53:26,284 --> 00:53:28,420 What do you think, what does the panel think, 780 00:53:28,420 --> 00:53:31,177 22nd century skills will be? 781 00:53:31,177 --> 00:53:35,473 Particularly, particularly if we fail to achieve 782 00:53:35,473 --> 00:53:38,774 the post-2015 Sustainable Development Goals? 783 00:53:40,279 --> 00:53:43,833 (Moderator) Right. Next to -- at the back, there. 784 00:53:44,073 --> 00:53:46,085 (Participant 11) I think we've lost the plot. 785 00:53:46,085 --> 00:53:50,154 30 years ago, many students started overtaking the teachers in knowledge. 786 00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:57,360 Our school server was looked after by students, pupils, rather than teachers, 787 00:53:57,363 --> 00:53:58,644 because they couldn't do it. 788 00:53:58,644 --> 00:54:00,126 And that happens all the while. 789 00:54:00,378 --> 00:54:03,856 Medical patients are getting more knowledge than the doctors, 790 00:54:03,856 --> 00:54:06,297 because they search the internet before they go to the doctor's 791 00:54:06,297 --> 00:54:07,596 about their own disease. 792 00:54:07,596 --> 00:54:10,478 So I think we have got no chance, we can't teach anymore. 793 00:54:11,509 --> 00:54:15,478 (Moderator) OK, thank you for that. Somebody standing up there -- 794 00:54:15,656 --> 00:54:19,146 Yes, with the hat on. Hello, Clark (check)? 795 00:54:19,146 --> 00:54:22,313 (Participant 12) Yes. Hi, my name is Elijah from Sweden 796 00:54:22,313 --> 00:54:26,075 and I work with a software company developing ideation software. 797 00:54:27,359 --> 00:54:31,195 My contribution is that I wonder if we should not dig even deeper 798 00:54:31,195 --> 00:54:34,616 and see if this is a structural problem, because I'd like to say that these skills 799 00:54:34,616 --> 00:54:36,114 are being taught. 800 00:54:36,114 --> 00:54:39,050 We see today that people are in two different types of networks: 801 00:54:39,050 --> 00:54:43,308 they are in centralized or distributed networks at work or at school, 802 00:54:43,539 --> 00:54:45,919 but distributed in their spare time. 803 00:54:46,117 --> 00:54:48,490 And we see also that these different types of network 804 00:54:48,490 --> 00:54:51,295 cultivate different types of values. 805 00:54:51,298 --> 00:54:53,080 So it could be an organizational problem, 806 00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:55,800 but also a value problem, if we dig even deeper. 807 00:54:56,120 --> 00:54:59,601 For example, from advertising to conversation 808 00:54:59,601 --> 00:55:04,631 from ownership to sharing, from profit to growth -- 809 00:55:04,631 --> 00:55:07,031 sorry, from profit to sustainability, and so on. 810 00:55:07,031 --> 00:55:10,908 So my contribution is basically, maybe the problem is even deeper, 811 00:55:10,908 --> 00:55:13,067 maybe it has to do about how we are organized, 812 00:55:13,067 --> 00:55:16,276 and the values that those organizations cultivate. 813 00:55:16,969 --> 00:55:20,944 (Moderator) Thank you for that (Applause) 814 00:55:20,944 --> 00:55:25,299 Yes, down in the front block here, in the middle. 815 00:55:26,954 --> 00:55:29,720 (Participant 13) I'm Cory Doctorow, from the morning plenary. 816 00:55:31,286 --> 00:55:34,960 It seems to me that education has been refactored over the last several decades 817 00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:38,310 as a kind of factory, whose product is educated children, 818 00:55:38,310 --> 00:55:39,657 with teachers as employees, 819 00:55:39,657 --> 00:55:44,208 and the board of directors as the Ministry of Education, God help us, Michael Gove, 820 00:55:44,208 --> 00:55:45,270 as the CEO. 821 00:55:45,270 --> 00:55:46,330 And (laughter) 822 00:55:46,330 --> 00:55:50,797 it seems like, when you organize something around the idea 823 00:55:50,797 --> 00:55:53,943 that the public are shareholders and that we're doing something that's a business, 824 00:55:53,943 --> 00:55:56,943 you have to have a quarterly report where some numbers go up 825 00:55:56,943 --> 00:55:58,664 to show that the business is thriving. 826 00:55:58,664 --> 00:56:00,398 And as a result, we are reify things 827 00:56:00,398 --> 00:56:02,120 that are not pedagogically supported, 828 00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:04,877 like attendance and standardized test scores, 829 00:56:04,877 --> 00:56:08,937 rather than things that are pedagogically supported as being real learning, 830 00:56:08,937 --> 00:56:12,680 which are often not quantifiable and are difficult to recognize, 831 00:56:12,680 --> 00:56:16,329 except as a kind of creative fog that you see your students in, 832 00:56:16,329 --> 00:56:21,632 where they are excited and are really chasing knowledge. 833 00:56:21,632 --> 00:56:24,136 And so now we're -- can be obsessed with turning children into 834 00:56:24,136 --> 00:56:26,947 second-rate spreadsheets or third-rate spellcheckers, 835 00:56:26,947 --> 00:56:29,718 instead of teaching them arithmetic and language. 836 00:56:30,147 --> 00:56:32,799 It seems like a focus on skills, 837 00:56:32,799 --> 00:56:36,127 without reference to the way that we frame education, 838 00:56:36,127 --> 00:56:37,717 gets us nowhere. 839 00:56:37,717 --> 00:56:40,588 Adding standardized tests' outcomes where we look at 840 00:56:40,588 --> 00:56:43,502 whether or not you've acquired 21st century skills, 841 00:56:43,502 --> 00:56:47,749 ignores the fact that anything that you try to teach, 842 00:56:47,749 --> 00:56:50,645 where the only way you're evaluated is with high-stake testing, 843 00:56:51,635 --> 00:56:52,570 gives you nothing, 844 00:56:52,570 --> 00:56:55,805 except for someone who has been crammed full of a bunch of facts 845 00:56:55,805 --> 00:56:57,574 that they'll promptly forget when they leave school, 846 00:56:57,574 --> 00:56:59,603 and no synthetic capability. 847 00:57:00,877 --> 00:57:02,009 (Moderator) Thank you for that. 848 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Yes, on the side of this block here, on the left. 849 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Participant 14) Thank you. I am ..... (check) from the Investor Malawi. 850 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 My question is, I don't know if we know what we're talking about. 851 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Laughter) 852 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 In Africa, we believe that if you don't know where you're going, 853 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 then the Lord can take you there. (check) 854 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Are we changing education, although we are using, 855 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 we attempt to coexist two educations, or we are neglecting education. Thank you. 856 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) Thank you. Yes, in the middle of the front block again, and then 857 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I'll come over to this one. 858 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Participant 15) Hi, ........ from .... University of Applied Science. 859 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 As a university of applied science, we're teaching skills like hell: 860 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 social skills, soft skills, technical skills, all this stuff. 861 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But maybe we are missing out the values behind these skills, 862 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 because they aren't the things in the future. (check) 863 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) Thank you. Let's go into this block in the front here, 864 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 on the right hand side, the -- the lady there, I think, just in front of the camera. 865 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Participant 16) My name is Lisa .......... (check) 866 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I work at ...... in the United States. 867 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I think my comment really builds on some of the things that Cory Doctorow said. 868 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 You could argue that the premise that we are arguing 869 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 is actually the wrong question. 870 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 It's not important, we -- just teaching the 21st century skills isn't enough. 871 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Those skills have to be honed, practiced and applied, 872 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 for them to do anything. 873 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So it's not about the teaching, it's about 874 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 what should the students do with the teaching after that. 875 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) Thank you for that. Let's have another one on this side. 876 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 One here on the front -- front row. 877 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Participant 17) Good evening, I'm .......... (check) of the European Schoolnet, 878 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I want to be also provocative and I'm thinking about the role you mentioned. 879 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 What's the role of education? 880 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Are we pushed by industry to deliver certain things or not? 881 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And I'm thinking, what's the role of the parents in all that? 882 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Is it maybe the role of the parents to teach these kinds of things? 883 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 You talked, Miles, about character building 884 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and I think there are certain things school can do, 885 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but I have, at least for my generation, a little bit of feeling that parents 886 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 share a little bit, sometimes, the responsibility to school, 887 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 to technology, and maybe it's time to be a good parent again. 888 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) Thank you for that. (Applause) 889 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Right at the back, there, on the right hand side, 890 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 right at the back in the middle. 891 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Participant 18) Hi: Bernard Sander from New York University. 892 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I grew up developing my own films. 893 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Though I'm a pretty adequate digital photographer, I did research 894 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 using card catalogs and paper indexes and microfiche, 895 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but I am a more than adequate digital researcher. 896 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And I think the story is the same for most of the people in the room. 897 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So the question really is, what was inadequate about my education? 898 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Nothing I did in the 20th century hasn't prepared me 899 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 for what 21st century has begun. 900 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And as long as I'm competent 901 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 in my capacity to search for new information 902 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and in being willing to put any effort to acquire new skills, 903 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I don't feel that I'm unprepared, 904 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and I don't frankly think that any student is really unprepared, 905 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 as long as they have that. 906 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So what is it that the 21st century brings that is so unique, 907 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 other than the fact that they can make a mistake 908 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and be seen by everybody all at once in three seconds, 909 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 right? so you know, that's fun. 910 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But other than that little piece, what's new? 911 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) Thank you for that. 912 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Right at the back, against the wall, with a red tie. That's it. 913 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Participant 19) I'm Eric Balance (check) 914 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and I'm from the Education, Audiovisual and Culture Executive Agency. 915 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 We're talking about skills, 916 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 because our employers tell us that our kids don't have them. 917 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Why are we not asking about the skills, not the employers, 918 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but society is asking for? 919 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) Yes, next door to the last speaker. 920 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Participant 20) .......... (check) from the UK. 921 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I've changed jobs now, but in a previous life 922 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I've worked with many, many teachers, primary and secondary, 923 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and they will tell you that all of the skills you're talking about, 924 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 with creativity, adaptation, rhetoric, 925 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 all of them are what they are trying to teach, 926 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 when they are not delivering standardized tests. 927 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So the question is, 928 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 do we want the education system to be told to do a certain thing 929 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 or are we trying to encourage it from the inside? 930 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Because I think they are two different things. 931 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) Yes (Applause). Thank you for that. 932 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 In the front row here, on the left hand side. 1:02:30 933 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Participant 21) Hello, this is Philip from IBA 934 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and I wonder if we're not discussing on a completely too advanced level. 935 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I just got an email from the school of my son, today, 936 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 where the school counselor had decided that -- and that was the name -- 937 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that game boys should be left home. 938 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Which makes me think if what we're discussing here is not way away 939 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 from what the reality looks like, 940 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 because we're here sitting and discussing really interesting topics, 941 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and in our ideal state of mind, it's something like that. 942 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And then I go out and see people like Donald Trump who are ......... check 943 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 about our education system, 944 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 which is a reason for shutting the whole thing down, I think. 945 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Laughter, applause) 946 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) Thank you for that. Yes, another one here, in the front block. 947 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Participant 22) Hello, I come from the University of Oslo, Norway, 948 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 ...... (check name). 949 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 There was quite a lot of investigation in Norway, a few years back. 950 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 They asked employers, I would like to go to employers: 951 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 "What kinds of skills are you looking for 952 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 "in a candidate that you consider employing?" 953 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And the first one was: ability to cooperate. 954 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Then we asked to ourselves, are we doing that? 955 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And then the next one on the list was ability to attain new knowledge; 956 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 next, ability to think independently and critically; 957 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 communication skills; ability to use knowledge in new fields; 958 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 ability to establish contact ........... (check) relations. 959 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And again, we're not doing these things, we're not -- kind of. 960 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Point 7 on the list was good theoretical knowledge in your field of science. 961 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 That's what we're doing all the time. 962 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I mean it's great to see so many people here 963 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but let's face it, most people are not here. (Laughter) 964 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 That means that lectures -- I mean it's great to see many people at this meeting, 965 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 concerned with teaching in general, but the fact is that most lectures, 966 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 say basic course in first year mathematic, whatever, at my university, 967 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 are being taught today in exactly the same way as when I was a student, 968 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 thirty years ago. 969 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So that's why this conference is important, 970 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that's why we need to provide students -- some people have to take responsibility 971 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 to provide students with the skills that employers need. 972 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Applause) 973 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) Thank you. 974 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 There was another question just near to the last speaker, in the same block, 975 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 the lady there, just the row in front, I think. 976 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Participant 23) Hi, Lisa, with the Global School Network. 977 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And ........ (check) 978 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 perhaps it's not just what skills we're teaching, but more so 979 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 what 21st century pedagogical skills that we're using, in that 980 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 sometimes it's just as important how it's being taught 981 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 than what is being taught. 982 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And I think back to my college and in some of the courses, 983 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 sometimes when I was going through the course catalog, 984 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 it wasn't how exciting the title was, but who was teaching it. 985 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And I think that goes back to some of the test scores 986 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that teachers are very focused on as well. 987 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And when I look at my daughter who has started school 988 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and what when I started school 30 years ago, 989 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and looking at how she is being taught 990 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -- taking away from ...... (check) what should be included -- 991 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but a lot of that rote learning and a lot of new skills they're using as well, so. 992 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) OK, thank you, another one in the ..... (check) over there 993 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Participant 24) Hi, my name is ...... (check) 994 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I work for UNESCO. 995 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I just want to ask, not just for the panelists, 996 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but I think for everyone. 997 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Maybe after 20, 30 years or so, are we still going to talk about the same thing? 998 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Or are we going to -- what the idea would be the next topic 999 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that we're going to talk about? 1000 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And I just wanted to also reiterate what our head of office is actually saying, 1001 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I mean -- ..... (check name) -- 1002 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 he always say that the world is not hungry for more words, more resolutions, 1003 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 more talks and more panel discussions. 1004 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 The world is actually hungry for more actions. 1005 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Thank you very much. 1006 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) Thank you. We've got about 5 minutes left for questions. 1007 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Please, so if you want to ask a question, just stick your hand up 1008 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and then we can get an idea: I think there is about three more. 1009 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So, the man right at the back on the back of the aisle here, 1010 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 on the right hand side, please, first. 1011 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Participant 25) Hi, ............. (check name) from London. 1012 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Miles mentioned knowledge and character, 1013 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I think one thing left out here is values. 1014 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So you know, we need knowledge to do things, 1015 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 we need skills to do things, 1016 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but we first have to agree at what's worthy of doing. 1017 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) OK, thank you, and there was a question, again on the aisle, here, 1018 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 on the left hand side -- lady just down here: that's it. 1019 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Participant 26) It's not really a question, but a challenge, maybe 1020 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 for the panelists. 1021 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I miss a little bit of diversity, so maybe more ethnical background, 1022 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 different ethnical backgrounds looking at the same question, 1023 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and how is it that we are addressing this in different contexts. 1024 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So maybe for the next plenary, we can have a bit more diversity. 1025 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) OK, and then there's -- there are two, right at the back, 1026 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 on the right hand side. 1027 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Participant 27) .................... (check name) Belgrade, Serbia. 1028 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Part of the title of this panel is that soft skills, 21st century skills, 1029 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 should be taught. 1030 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 My question is, is there any published evidence as to what extent 1031 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 teaching them really changes the mastery of these skills? 1032 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) And I think, a final question, again at the right of the back -- 1033 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -- or a contribution -- right at the back on the -- here we are, that's it. 1034 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Participant 27) Thank you. My name is Heike Dratch (check name. 1035 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I'm working for ........ (check) an international cooperation organization. 1036 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And my -- what I'm lacking a bit here is, in looking at 21st century skills, 1037 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 then looking at Paris, the climate change conference, 1038 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 so what kind of skills do we need, to look into the future 1039 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and really see what we're doing now is a future-oriented, sustainable activity. 1040 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So what kind of skills are not taught, in the sense of having 1041 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 a future orientation of our behavior now and how we can change our behaviors 1042 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So this is a -- probably in the next 10, 20 years, 1043 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 we need answers for that, how we change our behavior 1044 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and seeing all effects of what we're doing. 1045 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) OK, thank you very much for that, 1046 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and thank you everyone for your questions and contributions 1047 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Applause) 1048 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I'm now going to ask one speaker from each side to sum up, 1049 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and to deal with the points that you've made 1050 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and to make their final pitch for your votes. 1051 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So, first of all, I will ask our speakers against the motion to sum up. 1052 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 You've got 5 minutes. 1053 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Allan Päll) Alright, thank you very much, 1054 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 thank you very much. 1055 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I'm also very happy to hear the different nuances 1056 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and different arguments raised, and I think that the question -- 1057 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 questioning the very question itself is a good one, 1058 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 because it is difficult to pin down. 1059 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I would perhaps like to start with the broadest question, in terms of 1060 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 what would the 22nd century skills be? 1061 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And unless the world will change completely 1062 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 or we will run out of resources on the planet, 1063 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 or we will have a nuclear war, 1064 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 potentially, it will look similar, 1065 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but it could also be that we are just ......able (check) 1066 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 into a metric slide singularity that some are predicting. 1067 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And then, of course, it would be completely different, because 1068 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 there would be no physical interaction. 1069 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So our mind needs to be open for even fundamental, more fundamental changes 1070 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 than we can even imagine. 1071 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 However, I think there was a -- one important reflection indeed, 1072 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 about how do we teach and what is the pedagogy 1073 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 used in hour educational system. 1074 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I think our main problem, if we are to look anyone who is to be blamed, 1075 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 is that -- is not education itself, is not the educators or the teachers, 1076 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but it may be indeed in this obsession with standards, standardized testing 1077 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and also indeed, I would even go to argue, with qualifications. 1078 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Yes, you might say, we want to be sure that you, as an engineer, 1079 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 are properly qualified, or as a doctor. 1080 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Yes, we need to be sure that you have made -- have a certain set of skills 1081 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 to be able to perform that job. 1082 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But then again, perhaps, the way that we conduct learning 1083 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 is not recognizing the fact that learning is not something 1084 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that an educational institution can have a monopoly over. 1085 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And thus, maybe, we need to open that up much more and say that 1086 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 we need to recognize any kind of competences, skills, values 1087 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that you gain anywhere. 1088 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So I think -- I think in terms of building that critical thinking, 1089 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 which I do think is important, and which has existed throughout centuries 1090 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and is needed for the future as well, 1091 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that if we want to make sure that it is better done. 1092 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 We really need to look at, OK, let's recognize that this happens everywhere 1093 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and let's also see that we don't need to ignore the subject matter 1094 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but use participative methods of teaching and learning in our environment. 1095 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And that's where the difference comes from. 1096 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But however, I do believe that the very standard academic methods 1097 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 are still giving us the basic abilities for things like critical thinking. 1098 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Applause) 1099 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) Thank you. OK? 1100 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 If you want to you got a couple of minutes to ...... 1101 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Berry) Very briefly, a couple of other things worth saying, I think, 1102 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 in addition to what Allan said. 1103 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Trust schools! Actually, so much of what we heard about here 1104 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 happens in the day to day life of the classroom. 1105 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 What does school do, yes, it is about education, 1106 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 this passing on of knowledge to the next generation. 1107 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But it's also about building character, 1108 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 it's also about young people having that experience 1109 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 of getting on with one another and working collaboratively, 1110 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 of working creatively. 1111 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Much of what we are labeling perhaps as 21st century skills is happening. 1112 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Teachers are committed to this sort of thing, 1113 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 this happens in most of the classrooms, length and breadth of most countries, 1114 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 apart from when the testing gets in the way, 1115 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 as Allan has already made clear that. 1116 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 What are the reasons why this has happened? 1117 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Well, in part, it is this sort of preparation for the future. 1118 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 If you look back at the start of the 20th century, 1119 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 there were newspaper articles, there were magazine articles 1120 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 about what should be 20th century skills. 1121 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 How many of those are still relevant today? 1122 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I'd say most of those are still relevant today. 1123 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 You know, the photography thing: 1124 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 yes, we are working with different cameras now 1125 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but the knowledge of what makes a good photograph, 1126 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and the wisdom to discern a good photograph 1127 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 from a less good photograph is still just, 1128 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I think is just as important now as it was then. 1129 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So in summary, 21st century skills are being taught in schools. 1130 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 We are addressing this. 1131 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But actually, there are much more important things 1132 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that we should be focusing on: knowledge, passing that on to the next generation, 1133 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and character, and yes, values, absolutely right. 1134 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 You know, the question about 1135 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 what should we be doing in terms of 22nd century skills. 1136 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I suspect the values of respect for one another, of integrity, 1137 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 of willingness to be courageous, as I was talking about, 1138 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that's going to be just as important then as it is now. Thank you very much. 1139 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Applause) 1140 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) Thank you. 1141 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 OK, I'll now ask our speakers for the motion 1142 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 to sum up and you've got 5 minutes. 1143 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Pedro De Bruyckere) I'll say one minute, one answer to one question, 1144 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and then, Jo will conclude. 1145 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But there was a question, "Who is to blame." 1146 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 That's easy: we are. 1147 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 We are all, because we've fogotten what school is about. 1148 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 If you look back what school really means, it means free time. 1149 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 If I say this to my son, he will start throwing things, 1150 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but it means free of economic value. 1151 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Because if you go to a hair salon in a school, 1152 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 you know it will take much longer time than in a real hair salon, 1153 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 because the emphasis is not on earning money, but on learning. 1154 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And today, because of the testings, because of the focus, 1155 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 teachers need to to focus on very specific elements 1156 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and we've forgotten what schooling is about, what school is about. 1157 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So if we bring back school, then maybe 1158 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 these 21st century skills will be taught again. 1159 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) Thank you. Jo. (Applause) 1160 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Jo Swinson) So, I firstly want to answer a question that Miles asked, which was 1161 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 "Who uses a spreadsheet to plan a party?" 1162 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I would just say that anyone that asks that question has never planned a wedding. 1163 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Laughter) 1164 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I think it was -- a guy at the back said: "Most people are not in this room." 1165 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And that is actually part of the problem. 1166 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Because if the world was like the people in this room, 1167 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 i don't think there'd be such concern, I think that we would be able 1168 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 to stand here and say that 21st century skills are being taught. 1169 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 You know, going round the exhibitions, seeing the innovation, the creativity, 1170 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 it's really inspiring. 1171 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But I think we all know from our own experience 1172 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that the world out there isn't quite as enlightened. 1173 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And the measurement is a stifling problem. 1174 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 What gets measured gets done. 1175 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So of course, if you have endless testing, then teachers will teach to the test. 1176 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And I noted the reference to Michael Gove: 1177 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I'd just like to just say for the record: 1178 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I was a part of the coalition trying to rein him in at that point. 1179 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And I think Elijah talked about the values in organizations, 1180 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and how the values even of our societies is changing. 1181 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I think that's right and it's important -- I think it's exciting. 1182 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 We are moving to an age where there is far less deference 1183 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that has its challenges in ll sorts of walks of life, from anchors 1184 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 to medicine, to politics, to the media. 1185 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But I also think it's a positive development 1186 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that people can make their critical analysis 1187 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 of the institutions around us, rather than assuming that 1188 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 if somebody is in authority, then they must be right. 1189 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Even in the business world, there is a move towards more collaboration 1190 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 rather than just pure competition. 1191 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 The pursuit of profit is still important, but conversations ..... (check) purpose 1192 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 are also increasingly heard. 1193 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And I think that the leadership models 1194 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that are now experienced and valued the most 1195 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 are not the ones about just in a military style, 1196 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 telling people what to do, 1197 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but actually about working with individuals, 1198 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 to lead them and motivate them, and get the best out of a team. 1199 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And this has an impact for all of our careers paths. 1200 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 You don't just go into one job and stay there for 40 years. 1201 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And therefore we need to change the way we are preparing people for this world. 1202 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 A lady in the audience mentioned that we are, as human beings, naturally adaptive, 1203 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and I would agree we are, but we need to be helped to do that even more, 1204 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 because we do need to adapt more than we did 1205 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 when we stayed in one job for 40 years in our career. 1206 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So that lifelong learning is actually so important. 1207 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 By all means, we should talk about what happens in the education system 1208 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but it's just as important for, when we're all here in 20 years time 1209 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and we are, you know, trying to keep track of the world that has suddenly developed. 1210 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 We need to find a way of staying up to date. 1211 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So, can these skills be taught? How can these skills be taught? 1212 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Well, they absolutely have to be taught 1213 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 so we need to figure out the answers to that. 1214 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 People need to acquire these skills and they will need help to do it. 1215 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But that teaching can come from a range of sources. 1216 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Of course, the formal education system but also parents and our peers 1217 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and indeed I would argue, particularly to the point, in some dimension, 1218 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 about all the people in the audience, 1219 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I think, ultimately, one of the ways 21st century skills will be taught 1220 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 will be from our children and grandchildren. 1221 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Thank you. (Applause) 1222 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) Thank you for that, Jo and Pedro, 1223 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and thank you to all our speakers and thank you to your contributions. 1224 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 We'll now take a vote on this, so would all those in favor of the motion: 1225 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 "This house believes 21st century skills aren't being taught and they should be." 1226 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 please raise their hand, in the singular: one hand each. 1227 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Right.That's all those in favor. 1228 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And all those against. 1229 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Inaudible off voice - laughter) 1230 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) That's not -- that is very close but I would say that -- 1231 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that the motion is lost on that. (Boos and clapping) 1232 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I would say I would be happy to -- but only just. 1233 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 That's very, very narrow vote. 1234 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So thank you very much indeed for all your contributions 1235 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and your attention, and I have a number of announcements just to make, actually. 1236 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Just to remind you that the Online Educa OEB party, Weihnachts Fest 1237 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 will take place and the tickets are on sale at the reception. 1238 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 It will take place tonight, there'll be food, drink 1239 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and 25 liters of fake snow. (Laughter) 1240 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So that's something to look forward to. 1241 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 The other thing is that many of you will remember 1242 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 our dear friend and colleague Jay Cross, who died recently. 1243 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And Jay was one of the real stars of OEB in the past. 1244 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And I know that he was a great friend to many people who attend this conference 1245 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and there is going to be a special session which will take place now 1246 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 in room Potsdam 1, which will look at Jay Cross's legacy in person and in print 1247 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and this session will feature Jay's colleagues 1248 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 from the Internet Time Alliance, who will remember his influence 1249 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and present his legacy. 1250 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So I do hope you'll take the opportunity to go along and take part in that session. 1251 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Thank you all very much indeed, Ladies and Gentlemen. 1252 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Applause) 1253 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 [Recordings of this session will be uploaded to www.online-educa.com] 1254 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 [Recording is provided by Presentations 200 Making Video Reality]