1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:15,085 (Sound off till 0:39, actual session starts at 2:04) 2 00:00:56,530 --> 00:01:08,469 (Indistinct conversations) 3 00:01:17,014 --> 00:01:18,994 (Moderator) So we've got one hour and a quarter. 4 00:01:19,004 --> 00:01:31,432 (confused voices) 5 00:01:31,432 --> 00:01:34,146 How do we know when these things are going to be turned on? 6 00:01:34,146 --> 00:01:57,543 (confused voices) 7 00:01:57,543 --> 00:02:01,802 What? OK? Right. 8 00:02:03,548 --> 00:02:07,367 (Moderator) Ladies and Genltemen, can I ask everyone 9 00:02:07,367 --> 00:02:09,281 to take their seats, please? 10 00:02:09,912 --> 00:02:13,119 We're about to begin, so if you're visiting the bar, 11 00:02:13,119 --> 00:02:18,314 can you charge your glasses and return to your seats, and then we'll begin. 12 00:02:18,314 --> 00:02:20,921 We've got an hour and a quarter for this debate. 13 00:02:30,575 --> 00:02:36,631 OK, can I -- Welcome everybody to the Online Educa OEB debate. 14 00:02:38,508 --> 00:02:42,718 I'm not sure what number this is in the series of debates that we've had, 15 00:02:42,718 --> 00:02:44,743 I think it may be getting up to our 10th. 16 00:02:44,743 --> 00:02:49,729 What I can tell you is that in the time that we've been having these debates 17 00:02:49,729 --> 00:02:53,872 and that I've been chairing them, my eyesight has now gone so bad 18 00:02:53,872 --> 00:02:57,846 that I can't possibly read any notes that I have without using glasses, so 19 00:02:58,935 --> 00:03:02,448 I think we must be on at least our 10th. 20 00:03:02,454 --> 00:03:07,236 What I can also tell you is that Online Educa itself, OEB, 21 00:03:07,669 --> 00:03:11,210 this year is celebrating its 21st anniversary. 22 00:03:11,513 --> 00:03:14,550 So I think that perhaps deserves a round of applause. 23 00:03:14,550 --> 00:03:22,959 So happy birthday to Online Educa -- (Applause) -- this fantastic conference. 24 00:03:22,959 --> 00:03:30,983 And 21 years ago was a very difficult -- very different world indeed, 25 00:03:30,983 --> 00:03:35,852 when one thinks about the scale and scope of change that there -- 26 00:03:35,852 --> 00:03:39,762 that has taken place in the last 21 years. 27 00:03:40,499 --> 00:03:50,874 One statistic I was reading recently was that in the UK, in 1994, 21 years ago, 28 00:03:51,344 --> 00:03:57,120 there were only 67 mobile phones per 1000 people. 29 00:03:57,697 --> 00:04:02,114 But only ten years later, in 2004, 30 00:04:02,114 --> 00:04:05,527 there were more mobiles in the UK than people. 31 00:04:05,842 --> 00:04:10,067 And that pattern of spread of mobile communications alone 32 00:04:10,336 --> 00:04:15,412 has spread across the world and in Africa, for instance, 33 00:04:15,412 --> 00:04:17,765 those of you who have been to Elearning Africa will have heard about 34 00:04:17,765 --> 00:04:22,414 the spread of mobile communications across the African continent. 35 00:04:22,414 --> 00:04:26,092 So in terms of the scale of technological change, 36 00:04:26,092 --> 00:04:28,416 and the spread of that change across the world, 37 00:04:28,416 --> 00:04:33,383 the change in that short period of time, in these past 21 years alone, 38 00:04:33,383 --> 00:04:35,951 has been enormous, and we heard about 39 00:04:35,951 --> 00:04:40,399 the scale of it in the opening plenary session this morning. 40 00:04:40,399 --> 00:04:45,465 We live in a world that is globalized, interconnected, hyperlinked 41 00:04:45,465 --> 00:04:51,621 and that scale of change that we're experiencing and have experienced 42 00:04:51,621 --> 00:04:56,297 in the last 21 years, is going to gather pace and continue. 43 00:04:56,297 --> 00:05:02,551 And all that is going to create a huge challenge for education and training, 44 00:05:02,551 --> 00:05:04,966 which is going to be at the heart 45 00:05:04,966 --> 00:05:09,635 of dealing with both the positive and negative aspects of that change. 46 00:05:09,635 --> 00:05:14,722 And that's why the motion that we're dealing with today, in this debate, 47 00:05:14,722 --> 00:05:20,316 is so important, and why the whole subject of giving young people the skills 48 00:05:20,316 --> 00:05:23,594 that they need to cope with the challenges of this new world 49 00:05:23,594 --> 00:05:30,834 that we all are going to -- that we are creating, is so important. 50 00:05:31,514 --> 00:05:34,957 We've got four speakers, four panel speakers 51 00:05:34,957 --> 00:05:37,901 to open the debate this evening 52 00:05:37,901 --> 00:05:41,386 and I'm going to ask each of them to speak for 10 minutes, 53 00:05:42,088 --> 00:05:43,313 and then I'm going to -- 54 00:05:43,903 --> 00:05:47,641 -- two of them will speak for the motion, obviously,and two against -- 55 00:05:47,641 --> 00:05:51,749 then I will throw open the debate to all of you, 56 00:05:52,136 --> 00:05:55,752 but if you want to intervene whilst they are speaking, 57 00:05:55,752 --> 00:05:58,995 because we're having a parliamentary-style debate, 58 00:05:59,672 --> 00:06:01,723 then you can try to intervene on them 59 00:06:01,723 --> 00:06:04,969 and if they want to take your intervention, 60 00:06:04,969 --> 00:06:07,507 then they can do so, but it will be entirely up to you. 61 00:06:07,507 --> 00:06:12,386 And if they don't, then you can draw whatever conclusions you want from that. 62 00:06:13,283 --> 00:06:16,054 But I want to ensure that we keep the flow going, 63 00:06:16,054 --> 00:06:20,078 so I'm not going to let you bully them but I'm going to allow you, 64 00:06:20,078 --> 00:06:21,655 if you want to make a particular point, 65 00:06:21,655 --> 00:06:24,223 or if you want to make a short intervention, to do so. 66 00:06:24,223 --> 00:06:28,953 Then after they've spoken, we'll throw open the debate to the floor 67 00:06:28,953 --> 00:06:31,683 and you can make your contribution, 68 00:06:31,683 --> 00:06:34,282 but do please realize that time is of the essence, 69 00:06:34,282 --> 00:06:37,993 so please try to keep it short and to the point, succinct. 70 00:06:37,993 --> 00:06:41,535 This is the kind of debate equivalent of texting. 71 00:06:41,535 --> 00:06:44,379 So, no long rambling contributions, 72 00:06:44,379 --> 00:06:46,376 because I will cut you off if you try to do that. 73 00:06:46,376 --> 00:06:48,635 So, very short contributions, please. 74 00:06:48,875 --> 00:06:53,146 And then I'll ask each of our -- I'll ask one speaker from each side 75 00:06:53,146 --> 00:06:59,647 to sum up, and then we will take a vote, and we'll do that by a show of hands. 76 00:07:00,486 --> 00:07:04,496 And I've also made it clear to all the speakers that they may 77 00:07:04,496 --> 00:07:09,258 say things that they don't necessarily want to be held to in the future, 78 00:07:09,258 --> 00:07:10,802 so I hope that you will understand that, 79 00:07:10,802 --> 00:07:15,211 that this is an opportunity for us to explore some of the issues, 80 00:07:15,211 --> 00:07:17,643 but don't take it all too seriously, 81 00:07:17,643 --> 00:07:21,560 and don't come and accuse people of saying things that you would -- 82 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:25,164 that they might not necessarily always want to be held to. 83 00:07:25,164 --> 00:07:31,030 With that in mind, I'm going to ask our first speaker, who is Jo Swinson. 84 00:07:31,030 --> 00:07:37,269 Jo Swinson, who is the former Minister for business, innovation and skills 85 00:07:37,269 --> 00:07:42,737 in the UK's coalition government of 2010 to 2015, 86 00:07:42,737 --> 00:07:45,111 to speak first for the motion. 87 00:07:45,468 --> 00:07:53,130 And Jo, since leaving Parliament, has begun a new career 88 00:07:53,130 --> 00:07:57,795 and is involved in an award within a data intelligence company 89 00:07:57,795 --> 00:08:00,310 called Clear Returns 90 00:08:00,310 --> 00:08:07,511 and she is an expert on the challenges and opportunities of the digital age. 91 00:08:07,511 --> 00:08:09,077 So, over to you, Jo. 92 00:08:09,504 --> 00:08:12,324 (Jo Swinson) Thank you very much indeed, Harold. 93 00:08:12,329 --> 00:08:18,227 And I'm absolutely delighted to be here in Berlin at OEB. 94 00:08:18,227 --> 00:08:22,878 A bit of a first, actually, the first technology-related conference 95 00:08:22,878 --> 00:08:26,434 that I've been to where there is a queue in the ladies' loos! 96 00:08:26,865 --> 00:08:31,841 I have to say I was particularly pleased by that, not only as a feminist, 97 00:08:31,841 --> 00:08:35,515 but also as a Brit who appreciates the art of queuing. 98 00:08:35,515 --> 00:08:37,486 So it was good on two fronts. 99 00:08:38,507 --> 00:08:44,075 So, "This house believes that 21st century skills aren't being taught, 100 00:08:44,075 --> 00:08:47,786 "and they should be." is the motion that I want to convince you 101 00:08:47,786 --> 00:08:49,967 to support this evening. 102 99:59:59,999 --> 00:08:50,719 We absolutely need to be equipping our young people, 103 00:08:50,719 --> 00:08:54,848 and indeed, people at every stage of their lives, 104 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 with the skills that they need for the 21st century. 105 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And our education systems, and our wider society, 106 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 have an important role to play in this. 107 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But I will put it to you, this evening, that when it comes to technical skills, 108 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 when it comes to social skills, and vitally, 109 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 when it comes to capacity to embrace change, 110 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 we are not yet rising to that challenge sufficiently. 111 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 There are very specific skills, there are gaps in science and technology 112 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that are not being properly filled. 9:32 113 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 These shortages are causing significant problems 114 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 for businesses, for employers. 115 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Half of engineering companies say that they have delayed taking forward 116 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 new products or services, because they have vacancies 117 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that are so hard to fill, because the skills are not there to recruit. 118 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Digital start-ups are often in real need of software developers 119 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that they cannot find sufficiently. 120 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And companies of all sizes, grappling with cybersecurity challenges 121 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 struggle to have the skills that they need to take on those important issues. 122 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 As Harold mentioned, I'm now a director of a company called Clear Returns. 123 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 It's been going for about three years, based in Glasgow, and uses data analytics 124 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 to help retailers understand the problems they have with product returns 125 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and therefore successfully cutting the costs for retailers, 126 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and resulting in better customer satisfaction. 127 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But in our technology team of 17 people, there are 12 different nationalities 128 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and not one of those people went through the school education system in the UK, 129 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 because the skills are not taught up to scratch. 130 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Now, there have been some improvements and as to 2014, 131 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 computer science has been introduced into the curriculum in the UK, 132 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but that is not the end of the matter, 133 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 because 11% of computer science graduates are unemployed. 134 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 In fact, that's one of the highest unemployment rates 135 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 for any subject discipline, 136 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 at a time when we have a huge shortage of these very skills. 137 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Something is going very wrong when that is the case. 138 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And this is not just about teaching people to code. 139 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Fashionable ....... (check) undoubtedly is at the moment (check) 140 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and it is necessary that we do have people who can code. 141 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But it's not some kind of silver bullet on its own. 142 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Actually, it's the building blocks that we need to be putting in place, 143 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 the things that lie before you get to the point of coding, 144 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 the logic, the basic maths, enhancing those skills, 145 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 so that people can put those building blocks together 146 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and create an argument or a train of thought or a mathematical proof, 147 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 or indeed, a piece of code that will instruct a machine to do something. 148 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Yet our maths skills are also going backwards. 149 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 A King's College, London, study found that compared to the 1970's 150 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 young people today are significantly less well equipped in the field of mathematics. 151 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And it's also worth pointing out that we are missing out, 152 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 when it comes to teaching these skills on almost half of the population. 153 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Only one in five A-level physics students is a girl. 154 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 When it comes to computer science, that figure drops to 1 in 10. 155 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Now, it's wonderful to be at a technology conference 156 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 where there is a queue in the ladies' loos, 157 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but even at this conference, if you have a look at the speakers' brochure, 158 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 only 8 of the 35 main speakers are women, so where are the women? 159 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 We are missing out on that important talent 160 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 who will not then get in the fields that we need for the 21st century 161 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 to enable all of our economies to flourish. 162 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 We're also not doing well enough at the social skills 163 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 which have always been imported -- important, 164 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and I would argue, are even more so in the context of the 21st century. 165 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Employers have long complained that they get coming into the work place 166 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 are not yet ready for work. 167 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I have to say there is that thing I've observed, 168 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 when new graduates starting out in the work place 169 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 seem to be allergic to using the telephone 170 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 for the purpose it was originally designed for. 171 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I've lost count of the number of times when, speaking to a member of staff 172 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 about the particular project that they are trying to make happen, 173 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and it seems so stuck, and I say: 174 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 "What happened when you asked that person about it?" 175 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 "Oh, I sent them an email and they didn't get back to me." 176 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 You know, for all the wonders that technology can undoubtedly do 177 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 in helping us in our working life, when you want to get people to do something, 178 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 an email is very easy to ignore, and it is much harder to just put to one side 179 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 a face-to-face person or contact, or on the telephone. 180 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And relationships are absolutely critical to 21st century work places and skills: 181 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 getting things done, collaborating in teams, motivating others. 182 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Yet when we assess children and young people in the education system, 183 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 it is genuinely done on a pure individual basis, 184 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 not looking at how they are actually operating within a drip setting (check). 185 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And when it comes to skills in terms of relationships, 186 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 something like personal, social and health education, which I would argue, 187 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 is absolutely essential to help young people learn to navigate relationships, 188 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and important issues like consent when it comes to sex, 189 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 it's not even compulsory in the UK curriculum. 190 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 In a world where ultimation is increasing, 191 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 where jobs that we've already seen through the Industrial Revolution, 192 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that manual jobs have been replaced by machines, 193 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that with the next stage of technological advancement, many, many more, 194 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 in things like accountancy and professional services, 195 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 are also going to be replaced by algorithms, 196 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 the human social relationship skills are going to be in even more demand 197 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and therefore deserve much more attention. 198 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And my final point is that we have not done enough to prepare people 199 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 for the world of change. 200 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 A little while ago, I spoke at a School Award ceremony to 12-year olds 201 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And I was to explain to them how the world had changed 202 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 since I was there age. 203 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And one of the examples I used was the process of taking a photograph. 204 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And I described how, when I was 12, you would have a thing called a camera 205 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that was all that it did, it was just for taking photographs, 206 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 you would have to get a piece of film, physically, 207 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 to load it into the camera machine, you'd had to do that pretty carefully, 208 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 because you didn't want to expose the film and it was quite a fiddly process. 209 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 You wouldn't know whether the photos you were taking were any good. 210 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 You would have to take at least 24, or sometimes 36, 211 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 depending on which particular piece of film you put into your camera, 212 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 before you would then take it along to a pharmacist's or a chemist's shop, 213 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 pay some money and then go and do something else for a few days, 214 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 at which point you could come back 215 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and be presented with your little envelope of photographs, 216 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and see if any of them had turned out OK. 217 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And I was counting on these 12-year olds looked at me 218 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 like I might well be lying to them: this is how it worked, 219 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 because of course these days, you know, within a matter of seconds, 220 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 you can take dozens of selfies in your phone, 221 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 apply however many Instagram filters you like, 222 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and share it with the entire world, just without leaving the school. 223 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 The pace of change is accelerating hugely. 224 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Here in 2015, for us to consider what even are 21st century skills, 225 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 is like going back to 1915 and trying to imagine the space race, nuclear power, 226 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 the internet, or the kind of social change going from a situation 227 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 where women didn't even have the vote, 228 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 to electing a woman as Prime Minister in the UK, 229 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 or the change with gay rights, 230 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 or the ending of racial segregation in the United States. 231 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 We can't even conceive of all that the 21st century is going to bring. 232 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And so, more than anything, with this huge pace of increasing knowledge, 233 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 more than anything, what we need to do is equip people 234 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 to cope with and thrive on change and uncertainty. 235 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Instead, we have bunches of kids being processed through the education system 236 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that doesn't look that different to several decades ago. 237 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So we really do have a problem here, in terms of the skills 238 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that we are teaching and more importantly, not teaching well enough. 239 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Whether it's technical skills, whether it's those social skills 240 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 or whether it's the vitally important ability to be resilient, 241 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 to recover from change and setbacks, 242 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and to apply yourself in a new way to a new set of challenges and horizons. 243 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 These are the things we must be focusing on, 244 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and we aren't yet rising to that challenge. 245 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I support the motion. 18:06 246 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Applause) 247 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) OK, thank you very much for that, Jo. 248 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Our next speaker, who is going to speak against the motion, is Allan Päll, 249 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 who is the Secretary General of the European Youth Forum, 250 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 which is the representative body for youth organisations in Europe 251 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and he is an advocate for youth's rights. 252 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 He lead student unions in Estonia and at the European level, and has advocated 253 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 for students' voices to be included in educational policy. Allan: 254 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Allan Päll) All right, thank you very much, chair. 255 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I would like to very much support many of the claims made by our opposition. 256 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 However, when it comes to the question and when it comes to this specific motion, 257 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 this house does not believe that 21st century skills aren't being taught, 258 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 because, well, let me put it very bluntly and very simply: 259 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 the whole notion of what are 21st century skills is often just a bunch of nonsense, 260 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 if I would sum it up very briefly. 261 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But let me go into it a bit more. 262 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 There are many definitions of what these skills could be 263 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and I fully agree that they do include everything mentioned by the opposition. 264 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 However, there are many other ways of looking at it. 265 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So if we are to say whether these are being taught or not, 266 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 even if we have a problem of the very definition of what these skills are, 267 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 how can we say that they are not being taught so determinedly? 268 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Some of the elements that can be mentioned as 21st century skills 269 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 are simple things, as critical thinking, problem-solving, reasoning, analysis, 270 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 research skills, creativity, curiosity, perseverance, self-direction 271 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 oral and written communication, leadership, 272 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 information and communication technology, social justice, literacy, 273 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 civic, ethical behavior, global awareness: the list goes on and on and on. 274 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So, indeed, many of those things, perhaps, are not being taught enough, 275 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 or specifically enough, in our educational systems. 276 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But that doesn't mean that this is not happening. 277 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Let me ask you one simple question: 278 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 If you believe that we don't acquire many of these skills 279 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 in our educational environment, be it in a formal setting 280 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 or a socializing moment in your school or at university, 281 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 would we actually witness the pace of change in society that we are seeing. 282 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Almost all of us have gone through the educational system. 283 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So, we must get a lot of those skills also through that. 284 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I do agree, though, that there is something to be said about 285 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 the question of how specific are we when we look at those skills. 286 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Because that is true that most curricula -- 287 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 education is very much compartmentalized into very specific subject areas 288 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and we're seeing an increasing trend of those subject areas becoming 289 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 more and more specific. 290 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And thus indeed, there is perhaps not enough emphasis on looking at, 291 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 or thinking really about are we acquiring all those sets of skills 292 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that are important for our socialization, etc., our technical skills as well, 293 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 as mentioned by the opposition. 294 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 One of the things that I would like to highlight is that 295 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 the schools and universities, and vocational education and training 296 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 is not only about the formal learning outcomes 297 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that we are beginning to measure more and more. 298 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 It is also about the social environment at that very school or university 299 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that determines a lot of what education gives us. 300 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 In terms of specific skills that were mentioned by opposition 301 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and the lack of those skills, there are many variables perhaps to look at. 302 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Yes indeed, we are missing out on engineers, 303 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 we are missing out on also staff in medical sciences, in care. 304 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 We would need indeed many more people 305 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 to have those qualifications, perhaps, indeed. 306 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But there is also a question of what is education for 307 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and what are the requirements on the labor market. 308 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And those two things, although they interact, 309 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 they move at different paces. 310 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So sometimes, we start to put blame very easily on the education system for 311 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 not delivering specific skills when, for example, the structure of our education 312 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -- sorry, the structure of our economy has changed. 313 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And I think here, it's an important remark that we need to look at 314 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 different experiences of different countries. 315 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And you see countries where unemployment levels, 316 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 even throughout the financial economic crises, 317 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 were record low, such as in Germany and Austria. 318 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But if you look at youth unemployment figures, 319 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 youth unemployment also among highly educated young people, 320 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 in different areas, like Spain or Greece, all around the Mediterranean, 321 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 they've been staggeringly high. 322 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And it's not because the education systems failed, 323 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 it's because the macro-economic systems failed them there, 324 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 in terms of not having enough job creation for all those skills. 325 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And of course, there is something to be said that when we train people 326 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and when we train minds to think critically, 327 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 to come up with new and innovative ideas, we also change the world through that. 328 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So, we need to understand that interaction. 329 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but certainly, when we look at 21st century skills, well, 330 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 if we are to define them with this broad set of lists that I noted, 331 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 we certainly are gaining those skills, but perhaps, not specifically 332 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and not enough: that, we could agree. 333 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 When it comes to preparedness for change, 334 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 when are we ever prepared for the change to come, one might wonder. 335 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Indeed, things, technologically, are changing very fast. 336 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And maybe our educational systems are not embracing that technology 337 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 at the same pace. 338 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But that doesn't mean that if we would embrace 339 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 the use of that technology very quickly, that it would enhance immediately 340 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 the skills that we can describe as 21st century skills, 341 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 such as, for example, critical thinking. 342 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 There are many advocates that say that 343 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 we need to replace subject matter teaching completely 344 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 with horizontal level approaches. 345 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 That doesn't work. 346 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 If we don't know the facts, how do we know that we are on the right path 347 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 with our decisions, how can we know what really happened in the past, 348 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and not, how can we verify what is true? 349 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So when we look at the skills, we need to look at the evidences 350 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 in terms of teaching preparedness and pedagogy. 351 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And yes, we agree: there is a lot to be done there 352 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 in terms of measuring those essential skills of socialization and communication, 353 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 building relationships, and it is true that around, it's estimated, 354 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 around 50% of jobs in the service sector 355 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 are about to disappear in the next 20 years and transform, hopefully, 356 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 into something completely new. 357 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Finally, indeed, those skills, we can all agree, 358 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 we'll need those skills. 359 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But there is an important element of young people, 360 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and this is a study that we have done in the European Youth Forum, 361 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that they gain a lot of those skills also outside, in non formal education settings. 362 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And the key here is to see if we can bring those experiences 363 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that young people gain from youth organizations, activism, 364 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 into the formal education setting, and thus make it much more open 365 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 to recognizing those prior experiences as well, to overcome this shortage. 366 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Thank you very much. 367 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Applause) 368 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) Thank you very much, Allan. 369 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Our next speaker who is going to speak for the motion is Pedro De Bruyckere 370 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 who is an educational scientist and he has worked in Ghent in Belgium 371 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 since 2001. 372 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 He co-wrote two books which debunk popular myths on generation Y 373 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and generation Z, 374 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and the latest one was entitled "I was 10 in 2015". Pedro: 375 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Pedro De Bruyckere) OK. Good evening. 376 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I'm a teacher, I'm a teacher trainer, so I'm not used to standing still. 377 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So if you don't mind, I will move. 378 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Allan, thank you very much for making my point. 379 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I have to explain: I have to agree, I've written a book about it. 380 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 There's no such thing as 21st century skills. 381 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And that's why they need to be taught. 382 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I have to explain this. 383 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 You know, if we go back in time, to see the origins of the 21st century skills, 384 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 you'll end up with the liberal arts, the Septem Artes Liberales. 385 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Rhetoric, what we are doing right here, that's for me ancient history, 386 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but still needed today. 387 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But the question is, is this still being taught in school? 388 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Because, like ....... Alberts (check) says, moreover we get a focus on the Three R's 389 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -- Reading, 'Riting, 'Rithmetics -- 390 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 while most of the young people are looking to Snapchats. 391 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But because of the focus, because we want to test stuff, 392 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 the more important things are being forgotten! 393 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Rhetoric, philosophy, for me, crucial. 394 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 To be honest, then, you don't have to look at Ancient Times, 395 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 than you have to look at Medieval Times, 396 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 because then philosophy was added to the Liberal Arts. 397 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So we need to train our children because it's great to say: 398 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 "Look at us: we've done it." 399 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Yes, but we are not talking about us, because in 20 years' time, they will -- 400 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 we will be old, boring and other people need to sit there 401 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and beyond stage, using rhetoric. 402 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So we need to prepare them. 403 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I'm not sure if we're doing a great job. 404 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 For instance, if we talk about technology, 405 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 technology is often like a sex ad in education. 406 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 You know, you talk about all the dangerous stuff 407 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and you never talk about the fun stuff. 408 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 You know, it's very simple: 409 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 "Don't do this, don't do that, certainly don't try that! Go ahead!" 410 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And another -- for instance, McKinsey, the McKinsey report, 2014 McKinsey report, 411 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 said just (check) -- and I agree again with you both -- 412 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 there is a mismatch. 413 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 There is a mismatch between what children study in school 414 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and which topics they choose, and what we need in the economy. 415 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But at the same time, the employers said: 416 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 "You know, don't train them to a specific job 417 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 "but train them in strategic and communication skills." 418 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 OK, they have been around for ages but they are still important. 419 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But what do we do, for instance, in many schools? 420 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I've been in schools in Holland, in Germany, in -- 421 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 you know, we teach them how to write a job application. 422 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 We teach them how to perform a talk for a job. 423 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Do we teach them to write a LinkedIn profile? 424 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 No, what we say is "Never post a drunk photo on Facebook, 425 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 "because people will search you." 426 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 What we don't say is: 427 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 "You know what? Post something good about yourself on Facebook, 428 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 "that isn't a selfie." 429 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But we think well, they will do this. 430 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Actually, for instance research by Jan van Dek (check): 431 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that's one of the stuff that our kids don't know. 432 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And if we don't teach them, who will? 433 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So that's my point: we need to teach them basic skills like Jo said: 434 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 communication skills, strategic skills. 435 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And if you want to call them 21st century skills because, by accident, 436 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 we're living in the 21st century, so be it. 437 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Applause) Thank you. 438 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Applause) 439 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) OK, thank you very much, Pedro. 440 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Our final speaker who is going to speak against the motion is Miles Berry, 441 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 who is the principal lecturer in computing education 442 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 at the University of Roehampton in the UK: Miles. 443 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Miles Berry) Pleasure to be here, really is. 444 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Philip and Gudrun, where are you guys? 445 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 OK, on the Twitter thing you say: 446 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 "We need to talk about what the purpose of education is, what is education for?" 447 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And that's where I want to start. 448 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I want to move back from the motion, to think about what education is for. 449 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And to do that, we need some understanding of what education is. 450 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I've been in education for over 40 years now. 451 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But even so, I checked. 452 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 It's the culture or development of personal knowledge, or understanding, 453 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 growth or character, moral and social qualities, etc., 454 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 as contrasting with the imparting of a skill. 455 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (blurred: check) 456 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 OK, there's definitely a place for imparting skills, 457 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but that's training, not education, and there is a difference. 458 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 My Roehampton students study education, but they are trained to teach. 459 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 England's new computing curriculum educates people about the principles, 460 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 the principles of computer science: (inaudible: check), I tell you. 461 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (laughter) ... technology, I think the technology ran on me tonight, 462 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 it's all right I'll give it... 463 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (off) (unintelligible) 464 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Berry) 21st century skill -- on knowledge -- (laughter) 465 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Knowledge that these things are the wrong shape for my head: never mind. 466 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 OK, so: England's new computing curriculum that Jo has alluded to 467 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 educates people about the principles of computer science, 468 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 whereas we used to train them to use Office software. 469 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Or think about sex. 470 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Look, not like that: we rightly include sex education on the curriculum in schools 471 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but we typically don't include training. (Laughter) Important skills. 472 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Do without microphones. (Laughter) ... very well. 473 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 In England, our Education Act says what education is for. 474 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Firstly, it's to promote the spiritual, moral, cultural, mental and physical 475 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 development of pupils and of society. 476 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And it's to prepare pupils for the opportunities, responsibilities 477 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and experiences of later life. 478 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 What else could education possibly be for? 479 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 In that, you just got to love laws that require you to do 480 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 what you'd want to do anyhow. 481 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 There does remain a question about how best to prepare people 482 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 for these opportunities, responsibilities and experiences. 483 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I think the nob of the motion this evening is about whether this should be done 484 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 through some sort of training in 21st century skills 485 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 or by passing on the knowledge, understanding and wisdom 486 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 of our generation to the next and I'd say, the latter. 487 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I've no problem with skills per se in teaching. 488 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Behavioral management is a skill, coding is a skill, 489 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 so is searching for things on Google, or even Bing. 490 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 OK. I've some problem, though, with the notion that there are 21st century skills 491 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and I'd agree with you on that. 492 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But both of you have done a fine job of demolishing that notion already. 493 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I've also some problem with the skills -- with the notion that skills can transfer. 494 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Skills are about accomplishing something. 495 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 There's a context to the skills, 496 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and I think we diminish specific skills by attempting to generalize them. 497 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 It isn't critical thinking, it's thinking critically about something. 498 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 It's not creativity, it's creating something. 499 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And it's not communication, 500 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 it's communicating something through some media. 501 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 The 'something' here matters. 502 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 It's really not possible to teach skills in the abstract fashion, without context. 503 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And the context is king. 504 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Whatever the specific domain, 505 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 knowledge of that domain is necessary for expert skills. 506 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 My main problem, though, is that we've only a little time in school. 507 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 We've other things to teach and our students have other things to learn: 508 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 things like knowledge 509 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and understanding 510 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and wisdom. 511 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Without these, skills are unlikely to be of much practical benefit. 512 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Stephen Downes is here. 513 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Well, nodding in his direction, I'd say, learning is about connecting things: 514 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 neurons, ideas, people. 515 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 The computer scientists get this, 516 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Google's page rank algorithm relies not so much on the content of the page, 517 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 as the links between the pages. 518 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 The thing is then, the new stuff has to be connected to something. 519 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Otherwise, it's just isolated factoids. 520 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 We can't make sense of it, we can't use new knowledge 521 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 unless it's integrated into our existing mental maps, our schema. 522 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Put simply: it takes knowledge to gain knowledge. 523 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 This apples to each of us as individuals, but it's also how civilization grows. 524 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Human achievement is a cumulative thing. 525 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 New knowledge doesn't normally contradict what's gone before. 526 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 It builds on it. 527 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 If Newton saw further than others had, 528 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 it was because he stood on the shoulders of giants. 529 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 What hope would there be for the next generations 530 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 if they had to discover everything afresh for themselves? 531 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 The consequence of our building on what's gone before 532 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 is that the pace of cultural, scientific and technological change 533 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 accelerates exponentially. 534 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But even allowing for this acceleration is knowledge, understanding and wisdom 535 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 which have done the test of time. 536 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Less so, skills. 537 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Expect new inventions and discoveries over the next 85 years 538 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and new practical skills to go with them. 539 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But don't expect the foundational shared knowledge of our civilization 540 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 to become irrelevant. 541 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Indeed, it's on this very foundation that the new knowledge will be built. 542 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 It's not 21st century skills that young people need. 543 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 It's 21st century knowledge, understanding and wisdom. 544 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Time, I think, for a quick case study. 545 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 The most successful education systems and the top universities 546 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 seem to organize their curriculum around well knowledge-based subjects. 547 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 England's new National Curriculum is quite explicitly a knowledge-based one. 548 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 It sets out to provide pupils with an introduction to the essential knowledge 549 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 they need to be educated as citizens, 550 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and to introduce them to the best which has been thought and said. 551 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 One of the most radical things we've done in that curriculum, 552 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 which many see as rather reactionary, 553 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 is to have replaced the old ICT with a new subject: computing. 554 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 This includes an introduction to the principles of computer science 555 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 for all, from age 5 up. 556 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 It has been my privilege to be part of the team 557 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 designing and implementing the new subject. 558 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Under the old curriculum we offered a good grounding in tech skills, 559 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 finding this online, making a presentation, 560 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 typing up stories, articles and reports. 561 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Sometimes, even making a spreadsheet, often about having a party. 562 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Do people really use spreadsheets to plan parties? 563 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Are these fun parties? Are these -- OK (laughs) 564 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 It was fine: pupils moved on to work or the next phase of education 565 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 with some competence and confidence 566 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and broadly speaking, were digitally literate. 567 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Our ...... (check) students at Roehampton's 568 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 suggested that broad portfolio skills, 569 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 two thirds regarded them as .... as competent, proficient or experts. 570 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 That said, it was all too often a bit -- well, dull. 571 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 There's a limit, or at least there should be a limit 572 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 to the number of times you can find something out on the internet 573 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and make a presentation about it. 574 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Generally, it did precious little to provide any real knowledge 575 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 or understanding of computation, information theory or digital technology. 576 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 In the same audit, less than 15% of my new students 577 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 rated their understanding of digital technology 578 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 as competent, proficient or expert. 579 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So we started again. 580 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 We built on the idea of computing as having three elements: 581 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 computer science, information technology and digital literacy, 582 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 the foundations, applications and implications of the discipline. 583 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 We took a leaf out of William Morris's book: 584 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 "Have nothing in your house that you do not know to be useful 585 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 "or believe to be beautiful." 586 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And built a curriculum of things that would be useful, 587 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but also things that were interesting. 588 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 We took a view that the best way to prepare pupils for a future 589 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 in which digital technology looks quite likely to remain important 590 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 was through providing a firm computer science foundation, 591 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 things like logic, algorithms, abstraction, networks, programming. 592 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Yes, coding would be important, but not as a vocational skill for the IT industry, 593 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but as the lab work for computing, the medium through which 594 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 the ideas of computer science are created and expressed. 595 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Computer became part of our curriculum 15 months ago. 596 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 It's early days, but early indications are very positive. 597 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Teachers' professional development has been a challenge. 598 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But this hasn't been a challenge about pedagogical or technical skills. 599 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Teachers know how to teach and know how to use technology. 600 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 It's just that they didn't know much computer science. 601 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 They are, by and large, willing to learn, 602 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and many are quite enjoying the fast challenge. 603 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I don't want to leave you with the idea that I think 604 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 knowledge is the only thing that matters in education. 605 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Of course it isn't: character matters. 606 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I'm talking here about traits and attitudes, 607 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 things such as curiosity and creativity and courage of our 4-year old daughter. 608 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 She's a curious character. 609 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 She still has this sense of wandering the world about her, 610 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that sense of Wow when she sees or hears something new, 611 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and still a willingness to explore, experiment and play. 612 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 She's at a great little primary school and I shouldn't worry. 613 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But I do worry that her schooling might get in the way of her curiosity 614 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 when it ought to be nurturing this. 615 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 As Plowden had it back in '67, 616 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 one of the main educational tasks of the primary school 617 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 is to build on and strengthen children's intrinsic interest in learning 618 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and lead them to learn for themselves. 619 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator, off) 21st century skill? 620 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Berry) But knowledge matters here. 621 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 It's as Sophie learns more that I hope she'll want to learn even more. 622 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 With literacy motivation, and good WiFi, she can teach herself almost anything, 623 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and does. 624 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Creativity matters. 625 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 We learn not just though listening, reading and exploring, 626 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but also through making. 627 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I don't think there's some generic creativity skill, here. 628 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But I'd like my daughter to be creative in her music and her computing 629 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and her maths, and so on. 630 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 She's been making things for a while now, but as her knowledge grows, 631 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I'm looking forward to her exploring and drawing on that in her creative work. 632 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Finally, courage. 633 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 She's a fearless explorer, with tons of self-confidence. 634 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Off whisper, inaudible) (Berry) OK. 635 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I want her school to encourage that. 636 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 More importantly, I want her to have the courage to tell the truth, 637 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 to stand up for those who can't stand up for themselves 638 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and to do the right thing, even if it's not the popular thing. 639 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So, what should we be doing to best prepare young people 640 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 for the opportunities, responsibilities and experiences of later life? 641 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Passing on knowledge. 642 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Nurturing character. 643 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Sounds a bit old-fashioned, but honestly, 644 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 what better preparation for the rest of the 21st century? 645 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Thank you. (Applause). 646 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) Thank you very much, Miles. 647 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Right, it's now over to you and I think we've got about 25 minutes 648 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 for questions and contributions. 649 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 If you ask a question, I'm going to ask our panel speakers 650 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 not to answer it directly but to deal with it in their summing up, 651 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 just so that we can ensure that we have a decent flow. 652 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And if you make a contribution, please, try to keep it fairly brief, well, brief, 653 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 so that other people have a chance as well. 654 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And you've been very well-behaved so far. 655 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Please don't feel that you need to be quite so well-behaved now, 656 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but now is your opportunity. 657 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 If you want to speak, please just raise your hand. 658 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Bear in mind that if you're at the back, it is slightly difficult to see you. 659 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And can you, if I call you, 660 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 please can you just wait till the microphone turns up. 661 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Who'd like to go first? 662 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Would anybody like to ask a question or comment? 663 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Yes, at the back on the left, there. 664 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Participant 1) My question is short, particularly for Allan, I think. 665 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Why are critical thinking skills important in the 21st century? 666 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator, off) OK. So that's one for Allan to deal with in his summing up. 667 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Anybody else, any-- Yes, over on the right there, Yannis (check) 668 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Participant 2) Thank you very much. 669 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I think both sides of the motion are saying it's not working. 670 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So who's to blame, who or what is to blame or who or what must we change? 671 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator, off) Thank you for that. 672 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Right, I'm looking for some contributions now, somebody who's -- 673 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Yes, lady there, on the, just by the aisle, there. 674 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Participant 3) Whoops! OK. 675 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Hi, I just have a comment to all of you. 676 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I don't see a huge difference between your positions, 677 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 because you always seem to say, it's important to have these, 678 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 whatever you call them. 679 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Skills is a kind of a talent that you have when you are born, or whatever. 680 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 You mentioned those things are important, so what is actually the difference? 681 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 We just need to promote an environment 682 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 to let people develop those types of skills or talents. 683 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) Yes, also on the aisle there. 684 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Participant 4) Thank you. I want to -- 685 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) Would you mind just introduce yourself briefly; 686 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 actually, if people would just say who they are and where they're from, 687 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that would be helpful as well. (Participant 4) OK. 688 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I'm Denise Gaspard- Richard, I'm from the University 689 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 of the West Indies and Caribbean-- (Moderator) Thank you. 690 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Participant 4) ..... Campus. 691 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 The board said to me, seemed to be saying somewhat of the same thing. 692 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 As you were speaking, I kept thinking about some employers' surveys 693 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that we have done over a period of time in the Caribbean, 694 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 where the ..... (check), 695 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 soft skills are not really being taught at the University. 696 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So when a student comes out in today work environment, 697 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 they can't carry out a decent conversation and therefore they can't call up 698 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 someone who is not getting the kind of service that they need, 699 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 they don't know how to communicate in .............. (check) OK? 700 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So when I listened to Jo, I heard some of that coming out 701 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and I'm wondering if, probably, we have simply substituted 702 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 social skills, or soft skills to call it 21st century skills. 703 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So we have more or less seen the same things 704 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 as we were seeing before we came up with this terminology. Thank you. 705 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) Thank you for that. Anybody else? 706 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Yes, in the front row, there. Just down here, please. 707 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Is there a mike here in the front row on my right? That's it. 708 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Participant 5) Thank you. My name is Anne DeLorean (check) 709 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 from the European Schoolnet in Brussels. 710 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 A comment: I think maybe we are missing the adaptive nature of human beings, 711 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 because society has progressed through the ages because -- 712 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 just because we are adaptive. 713 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 We have not always had to be taught everything we do, 714 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but we have to discover it a little bit. 715 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I think, as educators, what we need to do is provide the -- at the area or the ethos 716 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 where this discovery can happen, 717 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 not necessarily that we have to provide the lessons to do it 718 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but provide the means of discovery. 719 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) Thank you. Let's have another one on the front, here. 720 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Lady on the front row on the left hand side here. 721 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Participant 6) My name is Nikki Spalding, from Higher Education Academy in the UK. 722 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I was wondering what do you think is driving the rhetoric 723 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 behind 21st century skills the most? 724 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Is it happy individuals and learners? Happy employers? Happy society? 725 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Or happy Government Treasury? 726 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) Thank you for that. 727 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Yes, towards the back there, on the right hand side. 728 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Participant 7) Lydia .... (check) 729 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 You have concentrated on education of young people. 730 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And what about education of people at your age? 731 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Who and how (laugher) should you educate these 21st century skills or knowledge? 732 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) Very good question indeed. So, we'll come back to that one. 733 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Yes, we have a number on this side, in the -- where has the microphone gone? 734 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Yes, just at the front of this little block there, thank you. 735 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Participant 8) My name is Mike Rauser (check), from McKinsey and Company in Germany. 736 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And my question is directed to Mr Barry. 737 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Where you've stressed teaching specific skills, 738 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 please correct me if I'm wrong, about teaching specific skills in schools. 739 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 How do you account for situations where 740 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 a skill that may not even have been invented yet 741 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -- I'm thinking about say, from an 1980 view point, 742 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 15 years in the future, that nobody knew what the internet was. 743 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Nobody knew it was to be in there 15 years later. 744 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 OK, very limited. 745 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Off) I think the internet was invented in 1969. 746 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (P8) (overlap with moderator) OK, I understand that in general-- 747 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) Can we -- If you could just try to make it a contribution 748 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and then they can respond in their final remarks. 749 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (P8) Sure enough (Moderator) OK (overlap) 750 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (P8) -- that we don't know about 15 years into the future, 751 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 or skills that are here now, that may no longer be there 15 years into the future. 752 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Let's hope that's a little clearer. 753 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) OK, thank you. 754 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Can I have some more contributions, rather than questions? 755 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Anybody like to give their opinion? Yes, on the -- 756 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I think about the third row here. 757 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Participant 9) So actually it's phrased as a question, 758 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but think of it as a contribution. (Moderator) Yes (laughter). 759 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 A rhetorical contribution. 760 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (P9) So all of you have been arguing for or against 21st century skills 761 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 very convincingly. 762 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But you were always talking about what they are, 763 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and not about what they aren't. 764 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So maybe, if the question is phrased a bit differently, 765 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 you would need to make a more difficult point, so: 766 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 what do you think are skills that are no longer relevant, 767 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 or knowledge that is no longer relevant now in the 21st century, 768 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and that was indeed very important 200 years ago? 769 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) What would your answer to your own question be? 770 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (P9) I would have to think about it. (Moderator) Right. (Laughter) 771 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Right, at the -- right at the back, we've got two hands up there. 772 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 At the back, somebody with a dark-colored jacket on -- that's it. 773 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Participant 10) Mike Brown, 774 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 from the National Institute of Digital Learning in Ireland, 775 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 A question, but equally a contribution. 776 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 What do you think, what does the panel think, 777 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 22nd century skills will be? 778 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Particularly, particularly if we fail to achieve 779 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 the post-2015 Sustainable Development Goals? 780 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) Right. Next to -- at the back, there. 781 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Participant 11) I think we've lost the plot. 782 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 30 years ago, many students started overtaking the teachers in knowledge. 783 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Our school server was looked after by students, pupils, rather than teachers, 784 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 because they couldn't do it. 785 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And that happens all the while. 786 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Medical patients are getting more knowledge than the doctors, 787 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 because they search the internet before they go to the doctor's 788 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 about their own disease. 789 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So I think we have got no chance, we can't teach anymore. 790 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) OK, thank you for that. Somebody standing up there -- 791 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Yes. (inaudible) on to them. Hello, Clark (check)? 792 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Participant 12) Yes. Hi, my name is ...... (check) from Sweden 793 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and I work with a software company developing ideation software. 794 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 My contribution is that I wonder if we should not dig even deeper 795 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and see if this is a structural problem, because I'd like to say that these skills 796 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 are being taught. 797 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 We see today that people are in two different types of networks: 798 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 they are in centralized or distributed networks at work or at school, 799 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but distributed in their spare time. 800 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And we see also that these different types of networks 801 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 cultivate different types of values. 802 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So it could be an organizational problem, 803 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but also a value problem, if we dig even deeper. 804 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 For example, from advertising to conversation 805 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 from ownership to sharing, from profit to growth -- 806 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 sorry, from profit to sustainability, and so on. 807 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So my contribution is basically, maybe the problem is even deeper, 808 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 maybe it has to do about how we are organized, 809 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and the values that those organizations cultivate. 810 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) Thank you for that (Applause) 811 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Yes, down in the front block here, in the middle. 812 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Participant 13) I'm Cory Doctorow, from the morning plenary. 813 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 It seems to me that education has been refactored over the last several decades 814 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 as a kind of factory, whose product is educated children, 815 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 with teachers as employees, 816 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and the board of directors as the Ministry of Education, God help us, Michael Gove, 817 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 as the CEO. (laughter) 818 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And it seems like, when you organize something around the idea 819 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that the public are shareholders and that we're doing something that's a business, 820 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 you have to have a ...... (check) report where some numbers go up 821 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 to show that the business is thriving. 822 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And as a result, we are rear-fighting (check) 823 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 things that are not pedagogically supported, 824 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 like attendance and standardized test scores, 825 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 rather than things that are pedagogically supported as real learning, 826 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 which are often not quantifiable and are difficult to recognize, 827 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 except as a kind of creative fog that you see your students in, 828 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 where they are excited and are really chasing knowledge. 829 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And so now we're -- can be obsessed with turning children into 830 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 second-rate spreadsheets or third-rate spellcheckers, 831 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 instead of teaching them arithmetic and language. 832 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 It seems like a focus on skills, 833 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 without reference to the way that we frame education, 834 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 gets us nowhere. 835 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Adding standardized tests' outcomes where we look at 836 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 whether or not you've acquired 21st century skills, 837 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 ignores the fact that anything that you try to teach, 838 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 where the only way you're evaluated is with high-stake testing, 839 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 gives you nothing, 840 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 except for someone who has been crammed full of a bunch of facts 841 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that they'll promptly forget when they leave school, 842 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and no synthetic capability. 843 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) Thank you for that. 844 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Yes, on the side of this block here, on the left. 845 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Participant 14) Thank you. I am ..... (check) from the Investor Malawi. 846 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 My question is, I don't know if we know what we're talking about. 847 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Laughter) 848 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 In Africa, we believe that if you don't know where you're going, 849 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 then the Lord can take you there. (check) 850 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Are we changing education, although we are using, 851 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 we attempt to coexist two educations, or we are neglecting education. Thank you. 852 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) Thank you. Yes, in the middle of the front block again, and then 853 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I'll come over to this one. 854 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Participant 15) Hi, ........ from .... University of Applied Science. 855 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 As a university of applied science, we're teaching skills like hell: 856 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 social skills, soft skills, technical skills, all this stuff. 857 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But maybe we are missing out the values behind these skills, 858 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 because they aren't the things in the future. (check) 859 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) Thank you. Let's go into this block in the front here, 860 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 on the right hand side, the -- the lady there, I think, just in front of the camera. 861 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Participant 16) My name is Lisa .......... (check) 862 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I work at ...... in the United States. 863 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I think my comment really builds on some of the things that Cory Doctorow said. 864 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 You could argue that the premise that we are arguing 865 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 is actually the wrong question. 866 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 It's not important, we -- just teaching the 21st century skills isn't enough. 867 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Those skills have to be honed, practiced and applied, 868 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 for them to do anything. 869 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So it's not about the teaching, it's about 870 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 what should the students do with the teaching after that. 871 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) Thank you for that. Let's have another one on this side. 872 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 One here on the front -- front row. 873 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Participant 17) Good evening, I'm .......... (check) of the European Schoolnet, 874 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I want to be also provocative and I'm thinking about the role you mentioned. 875 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 What's the role of education? 876 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Are we pushed by industry to deliver certain things or not? 877 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And I'm thinking, what's the role of the parents in all that? 878 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Is it maybe the role of the parents to teach these kinds of things? 879 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 You talked, Miles, about character building 880 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and I think there are certain things school can do, 881 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but I have, at least for my generation, a little bit of feeling that parents 882 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 share a little bit, sometimes, the responsibility to school, 883 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 to technology, and maybe it's time to be a good parent again. 884 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) Thank you for that. (Applause) 885 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Right at the back, there, on the right hand side, 886 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 right at the back in the middle. 887 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Participant 18) Hi: Bernard Sander from New York University. 888 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I grew up developing my own films. 889 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Though I'm a pretty adequate digital photographer, I did research 890 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 using card catalogs and paper indexes and microfiche, 891 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but I am a more than adequate digital researcher. 892 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And I think the story is the same for most of the people in the room. 893 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So the question really is, what was inadequate about my education? 894 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Nothing I did in the 20th century hasn't prepared me 895 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 for what 21st century has begun. 896 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And as long as I'm competent 897 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 in my capacity to search for new information 898 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and in being willing to put any effort to acquire new skills, 899 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I don't feel that I'm unprepared, 900 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and I don't frankly think that any student is really unprepared, 901 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 as long as they have that. 902 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So what is it that the 21st century brings that is so unique, 903 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 other than the fact that they can make a mistake 904 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and be seen by everybody all at once in three seconds, 905 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 right? so you know, that's fun. 906 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But other than that little piece, what's new? 907 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) Thank you for that. 908 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Right at the back, against the wall, with a red tie. That's it. 909 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Participant 19) I'm Eric Balance (check) 910 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and I'm from the Education, Audiovisual and Culture Executive Agency. 911 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 We're talking about skills, 912 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 because our employers tell us that our kids don't have them. 913 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Why are we not asking about the skills, not the employers, 914 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but society is asking for? 915 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) Yes, next door to the last speaker. 916 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Participant 20) .......... (check) from the UK. 917 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I've changed jobs now, but in a previous life 918 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I've worked with many, many teachers, primary and secondary, 919 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and they will tell you that all of the skills you're talking about, 920 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 with creativity, adaptation, rhetoric, 921 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 all of them are what they are trying to teach, 922 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 when they are not delivering standardized tests. 923 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So the question is, 924 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 do we want the education system to be told to do a certain thing 925 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 or are we trying to encourage it from the inside? 926 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Because I think they are two different things. 927 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) Yes (Applause). Thank you for that. 928 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 In the front row here, on the left hand side. 1:02:30 929 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Participant 21) Hello, this is Philip from IBA 930 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and I wonder if we're not discussing on a completely too advanced level. 931 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I just got an email from the school of my son, today, 932 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 where the school counselor had decided that -- and that was the name -- 933 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that game boys should be left home. 934 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Which makes me think if what we're discussing here is not way away 935 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 from what the reality looks like, 936 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 because we're here sitting and discussing really interesting topics, 937 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and in our ideal state of mind, it's something like that. 938 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And then I go out and see people like Donald Trump who are ......... check 939 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 about our education system, 940 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 which is a reason for shutting the whole thing down, I think. 941 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Laughter, applause) 942 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) Thank you for that. Yes, another one here, in the front block. 943 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Participant 22) Hello, I come from the University of Oslo, Norway, 944 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 ...... (check name). 945 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 There was quite a lot of investigation in Norway, a few years back. 946 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 They asked employers, I would like to go to employers: 947 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 "What kinds of skills are you looking for 948 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 "in a candidate that you consider employing?" 949 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And the first one was: ability to cooperate. 950 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Then we asked to ourselves, are we doing that? 951 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And then the next one on the list was ability to attain new knowledge; 952 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 next, ability to think independently and critically; 953 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 communication skills; ability to use knowledge in new fields; 954 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 ability to establish contact ........... (check) relations. 955 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And again, we're not doing these things, we're not -- kind of. 956 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Point 7 on the list was good theoretical knowledge in your field of science. 957 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 That's what we're doing all the time. 958 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I mean it's great to see so many people here 959 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but let's face it, most people are not here. (Laughter) 960 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 That means that lectures -- I mean it's great to see many people at this meeting, 961 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 concerned with teaching in general, but the fact is that most lectures, 962 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 say basic course in first year mathematic, whatever, at my university, 963 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 are being taught today in exactly the same way as when I was a student, 964 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 thirty years ago. 965 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So that's why this conference is important, 966 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that's why we need to provide students -- some people have to take responsibility 967 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 to provide students with the skills that employers need. 968 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Applause) (Moderator) Thank you. 969 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 There was another question just near to the last speaker, in the same block, 970 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 the lady there, just the row in front, I think. 971 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Participant 23) Hi, Lisa, with the Global School Network. 972 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And ........ (check) 973 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 perhaps it's not just what skills we're teaching, but more so 974 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 what 21st century pedagogical skills that we're using, in that 975 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 sometimes it's just as important how it's being taught 976 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 than what is being taught. 977 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And I think back to my college and in some of the courses, 978 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 sometimes when I was going through the course catalog, 979 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 it wasn't how exciting the title was, but who was teaching it. 980 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And I think that goes back to some of the test scores 981 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that teachers are very focused on as well. 982 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And when I look at my daughter who has started school 983 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and what when I started school 30 years ago, 984 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and looking at how she is being taught 985 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -- taking away from ...... (check) what should be included -- 986 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but a lot of that rote learning and a lot of new skills they're using as well, so. 987 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) OK, thank you, another one in the ..... (check) over there 988 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Participant 24) Hi, my name is ...... (check) 989 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I work for UNESCO. 990 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I just want to ask, not just for the panelists, 991 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but I think for everyone. 992 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Maybe after 20, 30 years or so, are we still going to talk about the same thing? 993 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Or are we going to -- what the idea would be the next topic 994 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that we're going to talk about? 995 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And I just wanted to also reiterate what our head of office is actually saying, 996 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I mean -- ..... (check name) -- 997 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 he always say that the world is not hungry for more words, more resolutions, 998 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 more talks and more panel discussions. 999 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 The world is actually hungry for more actions. 1000 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Thank you very much. 1001 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) Thank you. We've got about 5 minutes left for questions. 1002 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Please, so if you want to ask a question, just stick your hand up 1003 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and then we can get an idea: I think there is about three more. 1004 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So, the man right at the back on the back of the aisle here, 1005 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 on the right hand side, please, first. 1006 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Participant 25) Hi, ............. (check name) from London. 1007 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Miles mentioned knowledge and character, 1008 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I think one thing left out here is values. 1009 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So you know, we need knowledge to do things, 1010 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 we need skills to do things, 1011 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but we first have to agree at what's worthy of doing. 1012 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) OK, thank you, and there was a question, again on the aisle, here, 1013 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 on the left hand side -- lady just down here: that's it. 1014 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Participant 26) It's not really a question, but a challenge, maybe 1015 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 for the panelists. 1016 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I miss a little bit of diversity, so maybe more ethnical background, 1017 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 different ethnical backgrounds looking at the same question, 1018 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and how is it that we are addressing this in different contexts. 1019 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So maybe for the next plenary, we can have a bit more diversity. 1020 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) OK, and then there's -- there are two, right at the back, 1021 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 on the right hand side. 1022 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Participant 27) .................... (check name) Belgrade, Serbia. 1023 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Part of the title of this panel is that soft skills, 21st century skills, 1024 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 should be taught. 1025 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 My question is, is there any published evidence as to what extent 1026 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 teaching them really changes the mastery of these skills? 1027 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) And I think, a final question, again at the right of the back -- 1028 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 -- or a contribution -- right at the back on the -- here we are, that's it. 1029 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Participant 27) Thank you. My name is Heike Dratch (check name. 1030 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I'm working for ........ (check) an international cooperation organization. 1031 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And my -- what I'm lacking a bit here is, in looking at 21st century skills, 1032 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 then looking at Paris, the climate change conference, 1033 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 so what kind of skills do we need, to look into the future 1034 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and really see what we're doing now is a future-oriented, sustainable activity. 1035 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So what kind of skills are not taught, in the sense of having 1036 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 a future orientation of our behavior now and how we can change our behaviors 1037 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So this is a -- probably in the next 10, 20 years, 1038 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 we need answers for that, how we change our behavior 1039 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and seeing all effects of what we're doing. 1040 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) OK, thank you very much for that, 1041 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and thank you everyone for your questions and contributions 1042 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Applause) 1043 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I'm now going to ask one speaker from each side to sum up, 1044 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and to deal with the points that you've made 1045 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and to make their final pitch for your votes. 1046 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So, first of all, I will ask our speakers against the motion to sum up. 1047 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 You've got 5 minutes. (Allan Päll) Alright, thank you very much, 1048 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 thank you very much. 1049 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I'm also very happy to hear the different nuances 1050 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and different arguments raised, and I think that the question -- 1051 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 questioning the very question itself is a good one, 1052 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 because it is difficult to pin down. 1053 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I would perhaps like to start with the broadest question, in terms of 1054 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 what would the 22nd century skills be? 1055 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And unless the world will change completely 1056 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 or we will run out of resources on the planet, 1057 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 or we will have a nuclear war, 1058 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 potentially, it will look similar, 1059 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but it could also be that we are just ......able (check) 1060 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 into a metric slide singularity that some are predicting. 1061 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And then, of course, it would be completely different, because 1062 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 there would be no physical interaction. 1063 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So our mind needs to be open for even fundamental, more fundamental changes 1064 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 than we can even imagine. 1065 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 However, I think there was a -- one important reflection indeed, 1066 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 about how do we teach and what is the pedagogy 1067 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 used in hour educational system. 1068 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I think our main problem, if we are to look anyone who is to be blamed, 1069 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 is that -- is not education itself, is not the educators or the teachers, 1070 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but it may be indeed in this obsession with standards, standardized testing 1071 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and also indeed, I would even go to argue, with qualifications. 1072 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Yes, you might say, we want to be sure that you, as an engineer, 1073 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 are properly qualified, or as a doctor. 1074 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Yes, we need to be sure that you have made -- have a certain set of skills 1075 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 to be able to perform that job. 1076 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But then again, perhaps, the way that we conduct learning 1077 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 is not recognizing the fact that learning is not something 1078 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that an educational institution can have a monopoly over. 1079 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And thus, maybe, we need to open that up much more and say that 1080 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 we need to recognize any kind of competences, skills, values 1081 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that you gain anywhere. 1082 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So I think -- I think in terms of building that critical thinking, 1083 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 which I do think is important, and which has existed throughout centuries 1084 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and is needed for the future as well, 1085 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that if we want to make sure that it is better done. 1086 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 We really need to look at, OK, let's recognize that this happens everywhere 1087 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and let's also see that we don't need to ignore the subject matter 1088 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but use participative methods of teaching and learning in our environment. 1089 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And that's where the difference comes from. 1090 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But however, I do believe that the very standard academic methods 1091 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 are still giving us the basic abilities for things like critical thinking. 1092 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Applause) (Moderator) Thank you. OK? 1093 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 If you want to you got a couple of minutes to ...... 1094 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Berry) Very briefly, a couple of other things worth saying, I think, 1095 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 in addition to what Allan said. 1096 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Trust schools! Actually, so much of what we heard about here 1097 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 happens in the day to day life of the classroom. 1098 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 What does school do, yes, it is about education, 1099 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 this passing on of knowledge to the next generation. 1100 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But it's also about building character, 1101 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 it's also about young people having that experience 1102 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 of getting on with one another and working collaboratively, 1103 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 of working creatively. 1104 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Much of what we are labeling perhaps as 21st century skills is happening. 1105 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Teachers are committed to this sort of thing, 1106 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 this happens in most of the classrooms, length and breadth of most countries, 1107 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 apart from when the testing gets in the way, 1108 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 as Allan has already made clear that. 1109 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 What are the reasons why this has happened? 1110 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Well, in part, it is this sort of preparation for the future. 1111 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 If you look back at the start of the 20th century, 1112 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 there were newspaper articles, there were magazine articles 1113 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 about what should be 20th century skills. 1114 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 How many of those are still relevant today? 1115 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I'd say most of those are still relevant today. 1116 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 You know, the photography thing: 1117 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 yes, we are working with different cameras now 1118 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but the knowledge of what makes a good photograph, 1119 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and the wisdom to discern a good photograph 1120 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 from a less good photograph is still just, 1121 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I think is just as important now as it was then. 1122 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So in summary, 21st century skills are being taught in schools. 1123 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 We are addressing this. 1124 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But actually, there are much more important things 1125 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that we should be focusing on: knowledge, passing that on to the next generation, 1126 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and character, and yes, values, absolutely right. 1127 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 You know, the question about 1128 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 what should we be doing in terms of 22nd century skills. 1129 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I suspect the values of respect for one another, of integrity, 1130 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 of willingness to be courageous, as I was talking about, 1131 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that's going to be just as important then as it is now. Thank you very much. 1132 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Applause) (Moderator) Thank you. 1133 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 OK, I'll now ask our speakers for the motion 1134 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 to sum up and you've got 5 minutes. 1135 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Pedro De Bruyckere) I'll say one minute, one answer to one question, 1136 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and then, Jo will conclude. 1137 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But there was a question, "Who is to blame." 1138 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 That's easy: we are. 1139 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 We are all, because we've fogotten what school is about. 1140 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 If you look back what school really means, it means free time. 1141 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 If I say this to my son, he will start throwing things, 1142 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but it means free of economic value. 1143 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Because if you go to a hair salon in a school, 1144 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 you know it will take much longer time than in a real hair salon, 1145 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 because the emphasis is not on earning money, but on learning. 1146 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And today, because of the testings, because of the focus, 1147 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 teachers need to to focus on very specific elements 1148 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and we've forgotten what schooling is about, what school is about. 1149 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So if we bring back school, then maybe 1150 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 these 21st century skills will be taught again. 1151 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) Thank you. Jo. (Applause) 1152 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Jo Swinson) So, I firstly want to answer a question that Miles asked, which was 1153 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 "Who uses a spreadsheet to plan a party?" 1154 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I would just say that anyone that asks that question has never planned a wedding. 1155 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Laughter) 1156 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I think it was -- a guy at the back said: "Most people are not in this room." 1157 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And that is actually part of the problem. 1158 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Because if the world was like the people in this room, 1159 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 i don't think there'd be such concern, I think that we would be able 1160 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 to stand here and say that 21st century skills are being taught. 1161 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 You know, going round the exhibitions, seeing the innovation, the creativity, 1162 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 it's really inspiring. 1163 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But I think we all know from our own experience 1164 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that the world out there isn't quite as enlightened. 1165 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And the measurement is a stifling problem. 1166 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 What gets measured gets done. 1167 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So of course, if you have endless testing, then teachers will teach to the test. 1168 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And I noted the reference to Michael Gove: 1169 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I'd just like to just say for the record: 1170 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I was a part of the coalition trying to rein him in at that point. 1171 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And I think Elijah talked about the values in organizations, 1172 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and how the values even of our societies is changing. 1173 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I think that's right and it's important -- I think it's exciting. 1174 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 We are moving to an age where there is far less deference 1175 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that has its challenges in ll sorts of walks of life, from anchors 1176 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 to medicine, to politics, to the media. 1177 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But I also think it's a positive development 1178 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that people can make their critical analysis 1179 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 of the institutions around us, rather than assuming that 1180 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 if somebody is in authority, then they must be right. 1181 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Even in the business world, there is a move towards more collaboration 1182 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 rather than just pure competition. 1183 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 The pursuit of profit is still important, but conversations ..... (check) purpose 1184 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 are also increasingly heard. 1185 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And I think that the leadership models 1186 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that are now experienced and valued the most 1187 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 are not the ones about just in a military style, 1188 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 telling people what to do, 1189 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but actually about working with individuals, 1190 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 to lead them and motivate them, and get the best out of a team. 1191 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And this has an impact for all of our careers paths. 1192 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 You don't just go into one job and stay there for 40 years. 1193 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And therefore we need to change the way we are preparing people for this world. 1194 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 A lady in the audience mentioned that we are, as human beings, naturally adaptive, 1195 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and I would agree we are, but we need to be helped to do that even more, 1196 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 because we do need to adapt more than we did 1197 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 when we stayed in one job for 40 years in our career. 1198 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So that lifelong learning is actually so important. 1199 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 By all means, we should talk about what happens in the education system 1200 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but it's just as important for, when we're all here in 20 years time 1201 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and we are, you know, trying to keep track of the world that has suddenly developed. 1202 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 We need to find a way of staying up to date. 1203 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So, can these skills be taught? How can these skills be taught? 1204 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Well, they absolutely have to be taught 1205 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 so we need to figure out the answers to that. 1206 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 People need to acquire these skills and they will need help to do it. 1207 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But that teaching can come from a range of sources. 1208 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Of course, the formal education system but also parents and our peers 1209 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and indeed I would argue, particularly to the point, in some dimension, 1210 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 about all the people in the audience, 1211 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I think, ultimately, one of the ways 21st century skills will be taught 1212 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 will be from our children and grandchildren. 1213 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Thank you. (Applause) 1214 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) Thank you for that, Jo and Pedro, 1215 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and thank you to all our speakers and thank you to your contributions. 1216 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 We'll now take a vote on this, so would all those in favor of the motion: 1217 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 "This house believes 21st century skills aren't being taught and they should be." 1218 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 please raise their hand, in the singular: one hand each. 1219 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Right.That's all those in favor. 1220 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And all those against. 1221 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Inaudible off voice - laughter) 1222 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Moderator) That's not -- that is very close but I would say that -- 1223 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that the motion is lost on that. (Boos and clapping) 1224 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I would say I would be happy to -- but only just. 1225 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 That's very, very narrow vote. 1226 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So thank you very much indeed for all your contributions 1227 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and your attention, and I have a number of announcements just to make, actually. 1228 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Just to remind you that the Online Educa OEB party, Weihnachts Fest 1229 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 will take place and the tickets are on sale at the reception. 1230 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 It will take place tonight, there'll be food, drink 1231 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and 25 liters of fake snow. (Laughter) 1232 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So that's something to look forward to. 1233 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 The other thing is that many of you will remember 1234 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 our dear friend and colleague Jay Cross, who died recently. 1235 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And Jay was one of the real stars of OEB in the past. 1236 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And I know that he was a great friend to many people who attend this conference 1237 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and there is going to be a special session which will take place now 1238 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 in room Potsdam 1, which will look at Jay Cross's legacy in person and in print 1239 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and this session will feature Jay's colleagues 1240 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 from the Internet Time Alliance, who will remember his influence 1241 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and present his legacy. 1242 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So I do hope you'll take the opportunity to go along and take part in that session. 1243 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Thank you all very much indeed, Ladies and Gentlemen. 1244 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Applause) 1245 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 [Recordings of this session will be uploaded to www.online-educa.com] 1246 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 [Recording is provided by Presentations 200 Making Video Reality]