9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(0:56 people's noises)

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(check who) 1.17 We've got one hour[br]and a quarter.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(confused voices then 1:31) How do we know[br]when these things are going to be turned on?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(confused voices, then1:58) What? OK? [br]Right.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Chairperson 2:03) Ladies and Genltemen, [br]can I ask everyone

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
to take their seats, please?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
We're about to begin, [br]so if you're visiting the bar,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
can you charge your glasses and return [br]to your seats, and then we'll begin.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
We've got an hour and a quarter[br]for this debate.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
OK, can I -- Welcome everybody to[br]the Online Educa OEB debate.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I'm not sure what number this is[br]in the series of debates that we've had,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I think it may be getting up to our 10th.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
What I can tell you is that in the time[br]that we've been having these debates

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and that I've been chairing them, [br]my eyesight has now gone so bad

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
that I can't possibly read any notes[br]that I have without using glasses, so

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I think we must be on at least our 10th.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
What I can also tell you is that [br]Online Educa itself, OEB,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
this year is celebrating [br]its 21st anniversary.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
So I think that perhaps deserves[br]a round of applause.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
So happy birthday to Online Educa --[br](Applause) -- this fantastic conference.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And 21 years ago was a very difficult --[br]very different world indeed,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
when one thinks about the scale and scope[br]of change that there --

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
that has taken place in the last 21 years.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
One statistic I was reading recently was [br]that in the UK, in 1994, 21 years ago,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
there were only 67 mobile phones[br]per 1000 people.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
But only ten years later, in 2004,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
there were more mobiles in the UK [br]than people.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And that pattern of spread [br]of mobile communications alone

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
has spread across the world and [br]in Africa, for instance,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
those of you who have been to [br]Elearning Africa will have learned about

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
the spread of mobile communications[br]across the African continent.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
So in terms of the scale [br]of technological change,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and the spread of that change [br]across the world,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
the change in that short period of time,[br]in these past 21 years alone,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
has been enormous, and we heard about

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
the scale of it in the opening [br]plenary session this morning.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
We live in a world that is globalized,[br]interconnected, hyperlinked

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and that scale of change we're [br]experiencing, have experienced

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
in the last 21 years, is going to[br]gather pace and continue.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And all that is going to create a huge [br]challenge for education and training,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
which is going to be at the heart

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
of dealing with both the positive and [br]negative aspects of that change.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And that's why the motion that we're [br]dealing with today, in this debate,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
is so important, and why the whole subject[br]of giving young people the skills

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
that they need to cope with [br]the challenges of this new world

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
that we all are going to --[br]that we are creating, is so important.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
We've got four speakers, [br]four panel speakers

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
to open the debate this evening

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and I'm going to ask each of them [br]to speak for 10 minutes,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and then I'm going to --

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
-- two of them will speak for the motion, [br]obviously,and two against --

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
then I will throw open the debate [br]to all of you,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
but if you want to intervene[br]whilst they are speaking, because

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
we're having a parliamentary-style[br]debate,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
then you can try to intervene on them

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and if they want to take [br]your intervention,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
then they can do so, but it will be[br]entirely up to you.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And if they don't, then you can draw[br]whatever conclusions you want from that.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
But I want to ensure that [br]we keep the flow going,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
so I'm not going to let you bully them[br]but I'm going to allow you,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
if you want to make a particular point,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
or if you want to make [br]a short intervention, to do so.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Then after they've spoken, we'll[br]throw open the debate to the floor

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and you can make your contribution,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
but do please realize that time [br]is of the essence,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
so please try to keep it short and [br]to the point, succinct.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
This is the kind of debate equivalent[br]of texting.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
So, no long rambling contributions, [br]because I will cut you off

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
if you try to do that.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
So, very short contributions, please.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And then I'll ask each of our --[br]I'll ask one speaker from each side

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
to sum up, and then we will take a vote,[br]and we'll do that by a show of hands.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And I've also made it clear [br]to all the speakers that they may

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
say things that they don't necessarily [br]want to be held to in the future,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
so I hope that you will understand that.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
But this is an opportunity for us [br]to explore some of the issues,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
but don't take it all too seriously,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and don't come and accuse people of saying[br]things that you would --

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
that they might not necessarily always [br]want to be held to.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
With that in mind, I'm going to ask[br]our first speaker, who is Jo Swinson.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Jo Swinson, who is the former Minister[br]for business, innovation and skills

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
in the UK's coalition government of[br]2010 to 2015,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
to speak first for the motion.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And Jo, since leaving Parliament, [br]has begun a new career

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and is involved in an award within[br]a data intelligence company

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
called Clear Returns

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and she is an expert on the challenges [br]and opportunities of the digital age.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
So, over to you, Jo.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Jo Swinson) Thank you very much indeed,[br]Harold.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And I'm absolutely delighted to be here[br]in Berlin at OEB.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
A bit of a first, actually, the first[br]technology-related conference

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
that I've been to where there is a queue[br]in the ladies' loos!

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I have to say I was particularly pleased [br]by that, not only as a feminist,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
but also as a Brit who appreciates[br]the art of queuing.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
So it was good on two fronts.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
So, this house believes that [br]21st century skills aren't being taught,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and they should be, is the motion[br]that I want to convince you

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
to support this evening.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
We absolutely need to be equipping[br]our young people,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and indeed, people at every stage[br]of their lives,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
with the skills that they need [br]for the 21st century.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And our education systems, [br]and our wider society,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
have an important role to play in this.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
But I will put it to you, this evening,[br]that when it comes to technical skills,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
when it comes to social skills,[br]and vitally,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
when it comes to capacity [br]to embrace change,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
we are not yet rising to that challenge[br]sufficiently.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
There are very specific skills, [br]there are gaps in science and technology

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
that are not being properly filled. 9:32

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
These shortages are causing[br]significant problems

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
for businesses, for employers.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Half of engineering companies say that[br]they have delayed taking forward

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
new products or services, because [br]they have vacancies

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
that are so hard to fill, because[br]the skills are not there to recruit.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Digital start-ups are often in real need[br]of software developers

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
that they cannot find sufficiently.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And companies of all sizes, grappling with[br]cybersecurity challenges

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
struggle to have the skills that they need[br]to take on those important issues.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
As Harold mentioned, I'm now a director[br]of a company called Clear Returns.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
It's been going for about three years,[br]based in Glasgow, and uses data analytics

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
to help retailers understand the problems[br]they have with product returns

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and therefore successfully cutting [br]the costs for retailers,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and resulting in better [br]customer satisfaction.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
But in our technology team of 17 people,[br]there are 12 different nationalities

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and not one of those people went through[br]the school education system in the UK,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
because the skills are not taught [br]up to scratch.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Now, there have been some improvements[br]and as to 2014,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
computer science has been introduced into[br]the curriculum in the UK,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
but that is not the end of the matter,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
because 11% of computer science graduates[br]are unemployed.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
In fact, that's one of the highest [br]unemployment rates

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
for any subject discipline,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
at a time when we have a huge shortage[br]of these very skills.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Something is going very wrong [br]when that is the case.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And this is not just about[br]teaching people to code.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Fashionable ....... (check) undoubtedly[br]is at the moment (check)

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and it is necessary that we do have [br]people who can code.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
But it's not some kind of silver bullet[br]on its own.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Actually, it's the building blocks [br]that we need to be putting in place,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
the things that lie before you get[br]to the point of coding,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
the logic, the basic maths, [br]enhancing those skills,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
so that people can put [br]those building blocks together

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and create an argument or a [br]train of thought or a mathematical proof,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
or indeed, a piece of code that will[br]instruct a machine to do something.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Yet our maths skills [br]are also going backwards.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
A King's College, London, study found that[br]compared to the 1970's

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
young people today are significantly less[br]well equipped in the field of mathematics.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And it's also worth pointing out [br]that we are missing out,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
when it comes to teaching these skills[br]on almost half of the population.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Only one in five A-level physics students[br]is a girl.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
When it comes to computer science,[br]that figure drops to 1 in 10.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Now, it's wonderful to be at [br]a technology conference

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
where there is a queue [br]in the ladies' loos,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
but even at this conference, if you[br]have a look at the speakers' brochure,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
only 8 of the 35 main speakers are women,[br]so where are the women?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
We are missing out [br]on that important talent

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
who will not then get in the fields[br]that we need for the 21st century

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
to enable all of our economies [br]to flourish.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
We're also not doing well enough[br]at the social skills

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
which have always been imported --[br]important,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and I would argue, are even more so[br]in the context of the 21st century.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Employers have long complained that[br]they get coming into the work place

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
are not yet ready for work.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I have to say there is that thing [br]I've observed,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
when new graduates starting out[br]in the work place

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
seem to be allergic to [br]using the telephone

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
for the purpose it was originally[br]designed for.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I've lost count of the number of times[br]when, speaking to a member of staff

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
about the particular project [br]that they are trying to make happen,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and it seems so stuck, and I say:

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
"What happened when you asked[br]that person about it?"

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
"Oh, I sent them an email and[br]they didn't get back to me."

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
You know, for all the wonders that[br]technology can undoubtedly do

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
in helping us in our working life, when[br]you want to get people to do something,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
an email is very easy to ignore, and it is[br]much harder to just put to one side

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
a face-to-face person or contact, [br]or on the telephone.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And relationships are absolutely critical[br]to 21st century work places and skills:

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
getting things done, collaborating in [br]teams, motivating others.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Yet when we assess children [br]and young people in the education system,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
it is genuinely done [br]on a pure individual basis,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
not looking at how they are actually[br]operating within a drip setting (check).

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And when it comes to skills [br]in terms of relationships,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
something like personal, social[br]and health education, which I would argue,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
is absolutely essential to help young[br]people learn to navigate relationships,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and important issues like consent[br]when it comes to sex,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
it's not even compulsory [br]in the UK curriculum.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
In a world where ultimation is increasing,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
where jobs that we've already seen through[br]the Industrial Revolution,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
that manual jobs have been replaced [br]by machines,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
that with the next stage of technological[br]advancement, many, many more,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
in things like accountancy and [br]professional services,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
are also going to be replaced [br]by algorithms,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
the human social relationship skills[br]are going to be in even more demand

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and therefore deserve much more attention.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And my final point is that we have not [br]done enough to prepare people

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
for the world of change.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
A little while ago, I spoke at a School[br]Award ceremony to 12-year olds

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And I was to explain to them [br]how the world had changed

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
since I was there age.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And one of the examples I used was[br]the process of taking a photograph.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And I described how, when I was 12,[br]you would have a thing called a camera

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
that was all that it did, it was just[br]for taking photographs,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
you would have to get a piece of film,[br]physically,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
to load it into the camera machine,[br]you'd had to do that pretty carefully,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
because you didn't want to expose the film[br]and it was quite a fiddly process.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
You wouldn't know whether the photos[br]you were taking were any good.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
You would have to take at least 24, [br]or sometimes 36,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
depending on which particular [br]piece of film you put into your camera,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
before you would then take it along[br]to a pharmacist's or a chemist's shop,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
pay some money and then go and do[br]something else for a few days,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
at which point you could come back

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and be presented with your little[br]envelope of photographs,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and see if any of them had turned out OK.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And I was counting on these 12-year olds[br]looked at me

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
like I might well be lying to them: [br]this is how it worked,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
because of course these days, you know,[br]within a matter of seconds,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
you can take dozens of selfies [br]in your phone,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
apply however many Instagram filters[br]you like,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and share it with the entire world,[br]just without leaving the school.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
The pace of change is accelerating hugely.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Here in 2015, for us to consider [br]what even are 21st century skills,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
is like going back to 1915 and trying[br]to imagine the space race, nuclear power,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
the internet, or the kind of social change[br]going from a situation

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
where women didn't even have the vote,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
to electing a woman as Prime Minister [br]in the UK,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
or the change with gay rights,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
or the ending of racial segregation[br]in the United States.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
We can't even conceive of all that [br]the 21st century is going to bring.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And so, more than anything, with [br]this huge pace of increasing knowledge,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
more than anything, what we need to do[br]is equip people

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
to cope with and thrive [br]on change and uncertainty.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Instead, we have bunches of kids being [br]processed through the education system

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
that doesn't look that different[br]to several decades ago.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
So we really do have a problem here,[br]in terms of the skills

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
that we are teaching and more importantly,[br]not teaching well enough.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Whether it's technical skills, [br]whether it's those social skills

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
or whether it's the vitally important[br]ability to be resilient,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
to recover from change and setbacks,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and to apply yourself in a new way [br]to a new set of challenges and horizons.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
These are the things [br]we must be focusing on,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and we aren't yet rising [br]to that challenge.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I support the motion. 18:06

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Applause)

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Moderator) OK, thank you very much[br]for that, Jo.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Our next speaker, who is going to speak[br]against the motion, is Allan Päll,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
who is the Secretary General of [br]the European Youth Forum,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
which is the representative body[br]for youth organisations in Europe

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and he is an advocate for youth's rights.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
He lead student unions in Estonia and[br]at the European level, and has advocated

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
for students' voices to be included[br]in educational policy. Allan:

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Allan Päll) All right, [br]thank you very much, chair.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I would like to very much support many[br]of the claims made by our opposition.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
However, when it comes to the question[br]and when it comes to this specific motion,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
this house does not believe that [br]21st century skills aren't being taught,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
because, well, let me put it very bluntly[br]and very simply:

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
the whole notion of what are 21st century[br]skills is often just a bunch of nonsense,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
if I would sum it up very briefly.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
But let me go into it a bit more.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
There are many definitions of[br]what these skills could be

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and I fully agree that they do include[br]everything mentioned by the opposition.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
However, there are many other ways[br]of looking at it.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
So if we are to say whether these are [br]being taught or not,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
even if we have a problem of the very[br]definition of what these skills are,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
how can we say that they are [br]not being taught so determinedly?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Some of the elements that can be [br]mentioned as 21st century skills

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
are simple things, as critical thinking,[br]problem-solving, reasoning, analysis,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
research skills, creativity, curiosity,[br]perseverance, self-direction

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
oral and written communication,[br]leadership,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
information and communication technology,[br]social justice, literacy,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
civic, ethical behavior, global awareness:[br]the list goes on and on and on.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
So, indeed, many of those things, perhaps,[br]are not being taught enough,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
or specifically enough, [br]in our educational systems.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
But that doesn't mean that [br]this is not happening.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Let me ask you one simple question:

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
If you believe that we don't acquire[br]many of these skills

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
in our educational environment, [br]be it in a formal setting

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
or a socializing moment [br]in your school or at university,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
would we actually witness the pace[br]of change in society that we are seeing.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Almost all of us have gone through [br]the educational system.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
So, we must get a lot of those skills[br]also through that.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I do agree, though, [br]that there is something to be said about

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
the question of how specific are we[br]when we look at those skills.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Because that is true that most curricula --

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
education is very much compartmentalized[br]into very specific subject areas

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and we're seeing an increasing trend[br]of those subject areas becoming

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
more and more specific.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And thus indeed, there is perhaps[br]not enough emphasis on looking at,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
or thinking really about are we acquiring[br]all those sets of skills

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
that are important for our socialization,[br]etc., our technical skills as well,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
as mentioned by the opposition.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
One of the things that I would like[br]to highlight is that

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
the schools and universities, and[br]vocational education and training

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
is not only about the formal [br]learning outcomes

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
that we are beginning to measure [br]more and more.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
It is also about the social environment[br]at that very school or university

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
that determines a lot of [br]what education gives us.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
In terms of specific skills [br]that were mentioned by opposition

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and the lack of those skills, there are[br]many variables perhaps to look at.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Yes indeed, we are missing out [br]on engineers,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
we are missing out on also [br]staff in medical sciences, in care.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
We would need indeed many more people

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
to have those qualifications, [br]perhaps, indeed.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
But there is also a question of[br]what is education for

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and what are the requirements [br]on the labor market.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And those two things, [br]although they interact,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
they move at different paces.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
So sometimes, we start to put blame[br]very easily on the education system for

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
not delivering specific skills when, for[br]example, the structure of our education

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
-- sorry, the structure of our economy[br]has changed.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And I think here, it's an important[br]remark that we need to look at

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
different experiences [br]of different countries.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And you see countries where [br]unemployment levels,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
even throughout the financial[br]economic crises,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
were record low, such as in Germany[br]and Austria.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
But if you look at youth [br]unemployment figures,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
youth unemployment also among [br]highly educated young people,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
in different areas, like Spain or Greece,[br]all around the Mediterranean,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
they've been staggeringly high.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And it's not because [br]the education systems failed,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
it's because the macro-economic systems[br]failed them there,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
in terms of not having enough job creation[br]for all those skills.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And of course, there is something[br]to be said that when we train people

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and when we train minds [br]to think critically,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
to come up with new and innovative ideas,[br]we also change the world through that.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
So, we need to understand [br]that interaction.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
but certainly, when we look at [br]21st century skills, well,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
if we are to define them with this broad[br]set of lists that I noted,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
we certainly are gaining those skills,[br]but perhaps, not specifically

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and not enough: that, we could agree.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
When it comes to preparedness for change,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
when are we ever prepared [br]for the change to come, one might wonder.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Indeed, things, technologically, [br]are changing very fast.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And maybe our educational systems[br]are not embracing that technology

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
at the same pace.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
But that doesn't mean that [br]if we would embrace

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
the use of that technology very quickly,[br]that it would enhance immediately

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
the skills that we can describe as[br]21st century skills,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
such as, for example, critical thinking.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
There are many advocates that say that

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
we need to replace [br]subject matter teaching completely

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
with horizontal level approaches.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
That doesn't work.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
If we don't know the facts, how do we know[br]that we are on the right path

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
with our decisions, how can we know[br]what really happened in the past,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and not, how can we verify what is true?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
So when we look at the skills, we need[br]to look at the evidences

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
in terms of teaching preparedness [br]and pedagogy.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And yes, we agree: there is a lot [br]to be done there

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
in terms of measuring those essential[br]skills of socialization and communication,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
building relationships, and it is true [br]that around, it's estimated,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
around 50% of jobs in the service sector

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
are about to disappear in the next [br]20 years and transform, hopefully,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
into something completely new.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Finally, indeed, those skills, [br]we can all agree,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
we'll need those skills.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
But there is an important element[br]of young people,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and this is a study that we have done[br]in the European Youth Forum,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
that they gain a lot of those skills also[br]outside, in non formal education settings.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And the key here is to see if we can bring[br]those experiences

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
that young people gain from youth [br]organizations, activism,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
into the formal education setting, [br]and thus make it much more open

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
to recognizing those prior experiences[br]as well, to overcome this shortage.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Thank you very much.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Applause)

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Moderator) Thank you very much, Allan.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Our next speaker who is going to speak[br]for the motion is Pedro De Bruyckere

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
who is an educational scientist and [br]he has worked in Ghent in Belgium

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
since 2001.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
He co-wrote two books which debunk[br]popular myths on generation Y

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and generation Z,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and the latest one was entitled [br]"I was 10 in 2015". Pedro:

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Pedro De Bruyckere) OK. Good evening.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I'm a teacher, I'm a teacher trainer,[br]so I'm not used to standing still.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
So if you don't mind, I will move.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Allan, thank you very much for[br]making my point.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I have to explain: I have to agree,[br]I've written a book about it.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
There's no such thing [br]as 21st century skills.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And that's why they need to be taught.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I have to explain this.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
You know, if we go back in time, to see[br]the origins of the 21st century skills,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
you'll end up with the liberal arts,[br]the Septem Artes Liberales.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Rhetoric, what we are doing right here,[br]that's for me ancient history,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
but still needed today.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
But the question is, [br]is this still being taught in school?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Because, like ....... Alberts (check) says,[br]moreover we get a focus on the Three R's

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
-- Reading, 'Riting, 'Rithmetics --

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
while most of the young people are[br]looking to Snapchats.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
But because of the focus, [br]because we want to test stuff,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
the more important things [br]are being forgotten!

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Rhetoric, philosophy, for me, crucial.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
To be honest, then, you don't have to look[br]at Ancient Times,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
than you have to look at Medieval Times,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
because then philosophy was added[br]to the Liberal Arts.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
So we need to train our children [br]because it's great to say:

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
"Look at us: we've done it."

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Yes, but we are not talking about us,[br]because in 20 years' time, they will --

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
we will be old, boring and [br]other people need to sit there

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and beyond stage, using rhetoric.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
So we need to prepare them.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I'm not sure if we're doing a great job.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
For instance, if we talk about technology,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
technology is often like a sex ad[br]in education.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
You know, you talk about [br]all the dangerous stuff

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and you never talk about the fun stuff.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
You know, it's very simple:

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
"Don't do this, don't do that,[br]certainly don't try that! Go ahead!"

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And another -- for instance, McKinsey,[br]the McKinsey report, 2014 McKinsey report,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
said just (check)[br]-- and I agree again with you both --

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
there is a mismatch.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
There is a mismatch between [br]what children study in school

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and which topics they choose,[br]and what we need in the economy.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
But at the same time, the employers said:

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
"You know, don't train them [br]to a specific job

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
"but train them in strategic [br]and communication skills."

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
OK, they have been around for ages[br]but they are still important.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
But what do we do, for instance,[br]in many schools?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I've been in schools in Holland, [br]in Germany, in --

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
you know, we teach them how to write[br]a job application.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
We teach them how to perform[br]a talk for a job.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Do we teach them to write [br]a LinkedIn profile?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
No, what we say is "Never post[br]a drunk photo on Facebook,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
"because people will search you."

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
What we don't say is:

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
"You know what? Post something good [br]about yourself on Facebook,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
"that isn't a selfie."

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
But we think well, they will do this.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Actually, for instance research by[br]Jan van Dek (check):

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
that's one of the stuff [br]that our kids don't know.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And if we don't teach them, who will?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
So that's my point: we need to teach them[br]basic skills like Jo said:

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
communication skills, strategic skills.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And if you want to call them[br]21st century skills because, by accident,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
we're living in the 21st century,[br]so be it.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Applause)[br]Thank you.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Applause)

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Moderator) OK, [br]thank you very much, Pedro.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Our final speaker who is going to speak[br]against the motion is Miles Berry,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
who is the principal lecturer [br]in computing education

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
at the University of Roehampton in the UK:[br]Miles.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Miles Berry) Pleasure to be here,[br]really is.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Philip and Gudrun, where are you guys?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
OK, on the Twitter thing you say:

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
"We need to talk about what the purpose[br]of education is, what is education for?"

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And that's where I want to start.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I want to move back from the motion, [br]to think about what education is for.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And to do that, we need some understanding[br]of what education is.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I've been in education [br]for over 40 years now.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
But even so, I checked.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
It's the culture or development[br]of personal knowledge, or understanding,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
growth or character, [br]moral and social qualities, etc.,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
as contrasting with [br]the imparting of a skill.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(blurred: check)

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
OK, there's definitely a place [br]for imparting skills,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
but that's training, not education,[br]and there is a difference.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
My Roehampton students study education,[br]but they are trained to teach.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
England's new computing curriculum[br]educates people about the principles,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
the principles of computer science:[br](inaudible: check), I tell you.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(laughter) ... technology, I think [br]the technology ran on me tonight,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
it's all right I'll give it...

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(off) (unintelligible)

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Berry) 21st century skill [br]-- on knowledge -- (laughter)

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Knowledge that these things are the wrong[br]shape for my head: never mind.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
OK, so: England's new computing curriculum[br]that Jo has alluded to

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
educates people about the principles[br]of computer science,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
whereas we used to train them [br]to use Office software.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Or think about sex.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Look, not like that: we rightly include[br]sex education on the curriculum in schools

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
but we typically don't include training.[br](Laughter) Important skills.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Do without microphones. [br](Laughter) ... very well.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
In England, our Education Act says[br]what education is for.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Firstly, it's to promote the spiritual,[br]moral, cultural, mental and physical

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
development of pupils and of society.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And it's to prepare pupils [br]for the opportunities, responsibilities

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and experiences of later life.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
What else could education possibly be for?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
In that, you just got to love laws[br]that require you to do

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
what you'd want to do anyhow.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
There does remain a question about[br]how best to prepare people

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
for these opportunities, responsibilities[br]and experiences.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I think the nob of the motion this evening[br]is about whether this should be done

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
through some sort of training[br]in 21st century skills

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
or by passing on the knowledge, [br]understanding and wisdom

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
of our generation to the next and I'd say,[br]the latter.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I've no problem with skills per se[br]in teaching.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Behavioral management is a skill,[br]coding is a skill,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
so is searching for things on Google,[br]or even Bing.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
OK. I've some problem, though, with the[br]notion that there are 21st century skills

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and I'd agree with you on that.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
But both of you have done a fine job[br]of demolishing that notion already.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I've also some problem with the skills --[br]with the notion that skills can transfer.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Skills are about accomplishing something.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
There's a context to the skills,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and I think we diminish specific skills[br]by attempting to generalize them.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
It isn't critical thinking, [br]it's thinking critically about something.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
It's not creativity, [br]it's creating something.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And it's not communication,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
it's communicating something[br]through some media.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
The 'something' here matters.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
It's really not possible to teach skills[br]in the abstract fashion, without context.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And the context is king.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Whatever the specific domain,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
knowledge of that domain is necessary[br]for expert skills.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
My main problem, though, is that[br]we've only a little time in school.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
We've other things to teach and[br]our students have other things to learn:

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
things like knowledge

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and understanding

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and wisdom.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Without these, skills are unlikely to be[br]of much practical benefit.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Stephen Downes is here.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Well, nodding in his direction, I'd say,[br]learning is about connecting things:

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
neurons, ideas, people.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
The computer scientists get this,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Google's page rank algorithm relies[br]not so much on the content of the page,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
as the links between the pages.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
The thing is then, the new stuff has to be[br]connected to something.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Otherwise, it's just isolated factoids.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
We can't make sense of it, [br]we can't use new knowledge

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
unless it's integrated into our existing[br]mental maps, our schema.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Put simply: it takes knowledge[br]to gain knowledge.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
This apples to each of us as individuals,[br]but it's also how civilization grows.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Human achievement is a cumulative thing.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
New knowledge doesn't normally contradict[br]what's gone before.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
It builds on it.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
If Newton saw further than others had,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
it was because he stood [br]on the shoulders of giants.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
What hope would there be [br]for the next generations

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
if they had to discover everything afresh[br]for themselves?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
The consequence of our building[br]on what's gone before

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
is that the pace of cultural, scientific[br]and technological change

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
accelerates exponentially.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
But even allowing for this acceleration[br]is knowledge, understanding and wisdom

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
which have done the test of time.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Less so, skills.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Expect new inventions and discoveries[br]over the next 85 years

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and new practical skills to go with them.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
But don't expect the foundational [br]shared knowledge of our civilization

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
to become irrelevant.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Indeed, it's on this very foundation[br]that the new knowledge will be built.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
It's not 21st century skills [br]that young people need.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
It's 21st century knowledge, understanding[br]and wisdom.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Time, I think, for a quick case study.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
The most successful education systems[br]and the top universities

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
seem to organize their curriculum[br]around well knowledge-based subjects.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
England's new National Curriculum is[br]quite explicitly a knowledge-based one.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
It sets out to provide pupils with [br]an introduction to the essential knowledge

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
they need to be educated as citizens,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and to introduce them to the best[br]which has been thought and said.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
One of the most radical things we've done[br]in that curriculum,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
which many see as rather reactionary,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
is to have replaced the old ICT [br]with a new subject: computing.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
This includes an introduction [br]to the principles of computer science

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
for all, from age 5 up.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
It has been my privilege [br]to be part of the team

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
designing and implementing[br]the new subject.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Under the old curriculum we offered[br]a good grounding in tech skills,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
finding this online, [br]making a presentation,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
typing up stories, articles and reports.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Sometimes, even making a spreadsheet,[br]often about having a party.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Do people really use spreadsheets[br]to plan parties?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Are these fun parties? Are these [br]-- OK (laughs)

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
It was fine: pupils moved on to work[br]or the next phase of education

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
with some competence and confidence

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and broadly speaking, were[br]digitally literate.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Our ...... (check) students [br]at Roehampton's

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
suggested that broad portfolio skills,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
two thirds regarded them as .... as [br]competent, proficient or experts.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
That said, it was all too often [br]a bit -- well, dull.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
There's a limit, or at least [br]there should be a limit

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
to the number of times you can [br]find something out on the internet

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and make a presentation about it.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Generally, it did precious little [br]to provide any real knowledge

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
or understanding of computation, [br]information theory or digital technology.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
In the same audit, less than 15%[br]of my new students

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
rated their understanding of [br]digital technology

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
as competent, proficient or expert.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
So we started again.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
We built on the idea of computing[br]as having three elements:

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
computer science, information technology[br]and digital literacy,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
the foundations, applications and[br]implications of the discipline.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
We took a leaf out of [br]William Morris's book:

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
"Have nothing in your house that[br]you do not know to be useful

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
"or believe to be beautiful."

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And built a curriculum of things [br]that would be useful,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
but also things that were interesting.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
We took a view that the best way [br]to prepare pupils for a future

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
in which digital technology looks [br]quite likely to remain important

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
was through providing a firm[br]computer science foundation,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
things like logic, algorithms, [br]abstraction, networks, programming.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Yes, coding would be important, but not[br]as a vocational skill for the IT industry,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
but as the lab work for computing, [br]the medium through which

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
the ideas of computer science are created[br]and expressed.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Computer became part of our curriculum[br]15 months ago.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
It's early days, but early indications[br]are very positive.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Teachers' professional development[br]has been a challenge.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
But this hasn't been a challenge about[br]pedagogical or technical skills.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Teachers know how to teach [br]and know how to use technology.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
It's just that they didn't know [br]much computer science.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
They are, by and large, willing to learn,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and many are quite enjoying [br]the fast challenge.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I don't want to leave you [br]with the idea that I think

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
knowledge is the only thing[br]that matters in education.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Of course it isn't: character matters.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I'm talking here about traits[br]and attitudes,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
things such as curiosity and creativity[br]and courage of our 4-year old daughter.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
She's a curious character.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
She still has this sense of [br]wandering the world about her,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
that sense of Wow when she sees[br]or hears something new,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and still a willingness to explore,[br]experiment and play.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
She's at a great little primary school[br]and I shouldn't worry.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
But I do worry that her schooling [br]might get in the way of her curiosity

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
when it ought to be nurturing this.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
As Plowden had it back in '67,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
one of the main educational tasks [br]of the primary school

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
is to build on and strengthen children's[br]intrinsic interest in learning

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and lead them to learn for themselves.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Moderator, off) 21st century skill?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Berry) But knowledge matters here.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
It's as Sophie learns more that I hope[br]she'll want to learn even more.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
With literacy motivation, and good WiFi,[br]she can teach herself almost anything,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and does.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Creativity matters.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
We learn not just though listening, [br]reading and exploring,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
but also through making.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I don't think there's some generic[br]creativity skill, here.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
But I'd like my daughter to be creative[br]in her music and her computing

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and her maths, and so on.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
She's been making things for a while now,[br]but as her knowledge grows,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I'm looking forward to her exploring[br]and drawing on that in her creative work.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Finally, courage.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
She's a fearless explorer, with tons[br]of self-confidence.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Off whisper, inaudible)[br](Berry) OK.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I want her school to encourage that.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
More importantly, I want her [br]to have the courage to tell the truth,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
to stand up for those who can't stand up[br]for themselves

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and to do the right thing, [br]even if it's not the popular thing.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
So, what should we be doing [br]to best prepare young people

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
for the opportunities, responsibilities[br]and experiences of later life?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Passing on knowledge.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Nurturing character.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Sounds a bit old-fashioned, but honestly,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
what better preparation [br]for the rest of the 21st century?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Thank you.[br](Applause).

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Moderator) Thank you very much,[br]Miles.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Right, it's now over to you and I think[br]we've got about 25 minutes

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
for questions and contributions.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
If you ask a question, I'm going to ask[br]our panel speakers

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
not to answer it directly [br]but to deal with it in their summing up,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
just so that we can ensure that we have[br]a decent flow.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And if you make a contribution, please,[br]try to keep it fairly brief, well, brief,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
so that other people [br]have a chance as well.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And you've been very well-behaved so far.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Please don't feel that you need to be[br]quite so well-behaved now,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
but now is your opportunity.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
If you want to speak, [br]please just raise your hand.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Bear in mind that if you're at the back,[br]it is slightly difficult to see you.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And can you, if I call you,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
please can you just wait [br]till the microphone turns up.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Who'd like to go first?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Would anybody like to ask a question[br]or comment?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Yes, at the back on the left, there.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Participant 1) My question is short,[br]particularly for Allan, I think.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Why are critical thinking skills[br]important in the 21st century?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Moderator, off) OK. So that's one [br]for Allan to deal with in his summing up.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Anybody else, any-- [br]Yes, over on the right there, Yannis (check)

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Participant 2) Thank you very much.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I think both sides of the motion [br]are saying it's not working.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
So who's to blame, who or what is to blame[br]or who or what must we change?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Moderator, off) Thank you for that.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Right, I'm looking for some contributions[br]now, somebody who's --

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Yes, lady there, on the, [br]just by the aisle, there.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Participant 3) Whoops! OK.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Hi, I just have a comment to all of you.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I don't see a huge difference [br]between your positions,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
because you always seem to say,[br]it's important to have these,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
whatever you call them.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Skills is a kind of a talent that you have[br]when you are born, or whatever.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
You mentioned those things are important,[br]so what is actually the difference?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
We just need to promote an environment

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
to let people develop [br]those types of skills or talents.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Moderator) Yes, also on the aisle there.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Participant 4) Thank you. I want to --

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Moderator) Would you mind just introduce[br]yourself briefly;

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
actually, if people would just say [br]who they are and where they're from,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
that would be helpful as well.[br](Participant 4) OK.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I'm Denise Gaspard- Richard,[br]I'm from the University

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
of the West Indies and Caribbean--[br](Moderator) Thank you.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Participant 4) ..... Campus.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
The board said to me, seemed to be saying[br]somewhat of the same thing.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
As you were speaking, I kept thinking [br]about some employers' surveys

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
that we have done over a period of time[br]in the Caribbean,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
where the ..... (check),

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
soft skills are not really being taught [br]at the University.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
So when a student comes out[br]in today work environment,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
they can't carry out a decent conversation[br]and therefore they can't call up

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
someone who is not getting[br]the kind of service that they need,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
they don't know how to communicate[br]in .............. (check) OK?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
So when I listened to Jo, I heard [br]some of that coming out

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and I'm wondering if, probably, [br]we have simply substituted

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
social skills, or soft skills to call it[br]21st century skills.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
So we have more or less seen [br]the same things

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
as we were seeing before we came up[br]with this terminology. Thank you.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Moderator) Thank you for that.[br]Anybody else?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Yes, in the front row, there.[br]Just down here, please.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Is there a mike here in the front row[br]on my right? That's it.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Participant 5) Thank you. [br]My name is Anne DeLorean (check)

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
from the European Schoolnet in Brussels.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
A comment: I think maybe we are missing[br]the adaptive nature of human beings,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
because society has progressed [br]through the ages because --

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
just because we are adaptive.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
We have not always had to be taught[br]everything we do,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
but we have to discover it a little bit.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I think, as educators, what we need to do[br]is provide the -- at the area or the ethos

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
where this discovery can happen,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
not necessarily that we have to provide[br]the lessons to do it

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
but provide the means of discovery.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Moderator) Thank you. Let's have [br]another one on the front, here.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Lady on the front row [br]on the left hand side here.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Participant 6) My name is Nikki Spalding,[br]from Higher Education Academy in the UK.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I was wondering what do you think[br]is driving the rhetoric

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
behind 21st century skills the most?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Is it happy individuals and learners?[br]Happy employers? Happy society?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Or happy Government Treasury?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Moderator) Thank you for that.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Yes, towards the back there, [br]on the right hand side.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Participant 7) Lydia .... (check)

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
You have concentrated on education[br]of young people.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And what about education of people[br]at your age?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Who and how (laugher) should you educate[br]these 21st century skills or knowledge?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Moderator) Very good question indeed.[br]So, we'll come back to that one.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Yes, we have a number on this side, in the[br]-- where has the microphone gone?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Yes, just at the front [br]of this little block there, thank you.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Participant 8) My name is Mike Rauser (check), [br]from McKinsey and Company in Germany.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And my question is directed to Mr Barry.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Where you've stressed [br]teaching specific skills,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
please correct me if I'm wrong, about[br]teaching specific skills in schools.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
How do you account for situations where

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
a skill that may not even [br]have been invented yet

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
-- I'm thinking about say, [br]from an 1980 view point,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
15 years in the future, that[br]nobody knew what the internet was.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Nobody knew it was to be in there[br]15 years later.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
OK, very limited.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Off) I think the internet [br]was invented in 1969.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(P8) (overlap with moderator) [br]OK, I understand that in general--

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Moderator) Can we -- If you could just [br]try to make it a contribution

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and then they can respond [br]in their final remarks.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(P8) Sure enough[br](Moderator) OK (overlap)

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(P8) -- that we don't know about[br]15 years into the future,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
or skills that are here now, that may[br]no longer be there 15 years into the future.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Let's hope that's a little clearer.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Moderator) OK, thank you.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Can I have some more contributions,[br]rather than questions?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Anybody like to give their opinion?[br]Yes, on the --

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I think about the third row here.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Participant 9) So actually it's phrased[br]as a question,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
but think of it as a contribution.[br](Moderator) Yes (laughter).

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
A rhetorical contribution.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(P9) So all of you have been arguing[br]for or against 21st century skills

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
very convincingly.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
But you were always talking about[br]what they are,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and not about what they aren't.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
So maybe, if the question is phrased[br]a bit differently,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
you would need to make [br]a more difficult point, so:

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
what do you think are skills that are[br]no longer relevant,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
or knowledge that is no longer relevant[br]now in the 21st century,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and that was indeed very important[br]200 years ago?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Moderator) What would your answer[br]to your own question be?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(P9) I would have to think about it.[br](Moderator) Right. (Laughter)

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Right, at the -- right at the back,[br]we've got two hands up there.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
At the back, somebody with a dark-colored[br]jacket on -- that's it.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Participant 10) Mike Brown,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
from the National Institute [br]of Digital Learning in Ireland,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
A question, but equally a contribution.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
What do you think, [br]what does the panel think,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
22nd century skills will be?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Particularly, particularly [br]if we fail to achieve

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
the post-2015 [br]Sustainable Development Goals?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Moderator) Right. Next to -- [br]at the back, there.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Participant 11) I think [br]we've lost the plot.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
30 years ago, many students started[br]overtaking the teachers in knowledge.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Our school server was looked after[br]by students, pupils, rather than teachers,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
because they couldn't do it.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And that happens all the while.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Medical patients are getting [br]more knowledge than the doctors,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
because they search the internet[br]before they go to the doctor's

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
about their own disease.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
So I think we have got no chance,[br]we can't teach anymore.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Moderator) OK, thank you for that.[br]Somebody standing up there --

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Yes. (inaudible) on to them.[br]Hello, Clark (check)?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Participant 12) Yes. Hi, my name is [br]...... (check) from Sweden

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and I work with a software company[br]developing ideation software.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
My contribution is that I wonder[br]if we should not dig even deeper

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and see if this is a structural problem,[br]because I'd like to say that these skills

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
are being taught.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
We see today that people are in two[br]different types of networks:

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
they are in centralized or distributed[br]networks at work or at school,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
but distributed in their spare time.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And we see also that [br]these different types of networks

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
cultivate different types of values.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
So it could be an organizational problem,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
but also a value problem, [br]if we dig even deeper.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
For example, [br]from advertising to conversation

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
from ownership to sharing,[br]from profit to growth --

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
sorry, from profit to sustainability,[br]and so on.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
So my contribution is basically, maybe[br]the problem is even deeper,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
maybe it has to do about [br]how we are organized,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and the values that those organizations[br]cultivate.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Moderator) Thank you for that[br](Applause)

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Yes, down in the front block here,[br]in the middle.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Participant 13) I'm Cory Doctorow, [br]from the morning plenary.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
It seems to me that education has been[br]refactored over the last several decades

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
as a kind of factory, [br]whose product is educated children,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
with teachers as employees,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and the board of directors as the Ministry[br]of Education, God help us, Michael Gove,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
as the CEO.[br](laughter)

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And it seems like, when you organize[br]something around the idea

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
that the public are shareholders and that [br]we're doing something that's a business,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
you have to have a ...... (check) report[br]where some numbers go up

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
to show that the business is thriving.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And as a result, we are rear-fighting (check)

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
things that are not [br]pedagogically supported,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
like attendance and [br]standardized test scores,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
rather than things that are pedagogically[br]supported as real learning,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
which are often not quantifiable[br]and are difficult to recognize,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
except as a kind of creative fog[br]that you see your students in,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
where they are excited and [br]are really chasing knowledge.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And so now we're -- can be obsessed[br]with turning children into

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
second-rate spreadsheets or [br]third-rate spellcheckers,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
instead of teaching them arithmetic[br]and language.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
It seems like a focus on skills,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
without reference to the way [br]that we frame education,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
gets us nowhere.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Adding standardized tests' outcomes[br]where we look at

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
whether or not you've acquired [br]21st century skills,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
ignores the fact that anything [br]that you try to teach,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
where the only way you're evaluated[br]is with high-stake testing,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
gives you nothing,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
except for someone who has been [br]crammed full of a bunch of facts

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
that they'll promptly forget[br]when they leave school,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and no synthetic capability.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Moderator) Thank you for that.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Yes, on the side of this block here,[br]on the left.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Participant 14) Thank you. [br]I am ..... (check) from the Investor Malawi.[br]

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
My question is, I don't know if we know[br]what we're talking about.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Laughter)

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
In Africa, we believe that if [br]you don't know where you're going,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
then the Lord can take you there. (check)

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Are we changing education, [br]although we are using,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
we attempt to coexist two educations,[br]or we are neglecting education. Thank you.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Moderator) Thank you. Yes, in the middle[br]of the front block again, and then

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I'll come over to this one.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Participant 15) Hi, ........ from ....[br]University of Applied Science.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
As a university of applied science,[br]we're teaching skills like hell:

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
social skills, soft skills,[br]technical skills, all this stuff.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
But maybe we are missing out the values[br]behind these skills,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
because they aren't the things [br]in the future. (check)

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Moderator) Thank you. Let's go[br]into this block in the front here,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
on the right hand side, the -- the lady [br]there, I think, just in front of the camera.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Participant 16) My name is[br]Lisa .......... (check)

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I work at ...... in the United States.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I think my comment really builds on some [br]of the things that Cory Doctorow said.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
You could argue that the premise [br]that we are arguing

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
is actually the wrong question.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
It's not important, we -- just teaching[br]the 21st century skills isn't enough.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Those skills have to be honed, practiced[br]and applied,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
for them to do anything.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
So it's not about the teaching, it's about

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
what should the students do [br]with the teaching after that.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Moderator) Thank you for that.[br]Let's have another one on this side.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
One here on the front -- front row.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Participant 17) Good evening, I'm [br].......... (check) of the European Schoolnet,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I want to be also provocative and[br]I'm thinking about the role you mentioned.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
What's the role of education?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Are we pushed by industry to deliver[br]certain things or not?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And I'm thinking, what's the role[br]of the parents in all that?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Is it maybe the role of the parents[br]to teach these kinds of things?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
You talked, Miles, [br]about character building

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and I think there are certain things[br]school can do,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
but I have, at least for my generation,[br]a little bit of feeling that parents

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
share a little bit, sometimes,[br]the responsibility to school,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
to technology, and maybe it's time[br]to be a good parent again.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Moderator) Thank you for that.[br](Applause)

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Right at the back, there, [br]on the right hand side,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
right at the back in the middle.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Participant 18) Hi: Bernard Sander[br]from New York University.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I grew up developing my own films.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Though I'm a pretty adequate digital[br]photographer, I did research

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
using card catalogs and paper indexes[br]and microfiche,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
but I am a more than adequate [br]digital researcher.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And I think the story is the same[br]for most of the people in the room.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
So the question really is, what was[br]inadequate about my education?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Nothing I did in the 20th century[br]hasn't prepared me

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
for what 21st century has begun.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And as long as I'm competent

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
in my capacity to search [br]for new information

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and in being willing to put any effort[br]to acquire new skills,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I don't feel that I'm unprepared,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and I don't frankly think that any student[br]is really unprepared,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
as long as they have that.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
So what is it that the 21st century brings[br]that is so unique,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
other than the fact that [br]they can make a mistake

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and be seen by everybody all at once[br]in three seconds,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
right? so you know, that's fun.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
But other than that little piece,[br]what's new?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Moderator) Thank you for that.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Right at the back, against the wall,[br]with a red tie. That's it.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Participant 19) I'm Eric Balance (check)

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and I'm from the Education, Audiovisual[br]and Culture Executive Agency.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
We're talking about skills,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
because our employers tell us [br]that our kids don't have them.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Why are we not asking about the skills,[br]not the employers,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
but society is asking for?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Moderator) Yes, next door [br]to the last speaker.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Participant 20) .......... (check) [br]from the UK.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I've changed jobs now, [br]but in a previous life

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I've worked with many, many teachers,[br]primary and secondary,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and they will tell you that [br]all of the skills you're talking about,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
with creativity, adaptation, rhetoric,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
all of them are what they are [br]trying to teach,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
when they are not delivering [br]standardized tests.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
So the question is,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
do we want the education system to be[br]told to do a certain thing

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
or are we trying to encourage it[br]from the inside?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Because I think they are two [br]different things.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Moderator) Yes (Applause).[br]Thank you for that.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
In the front row here, [br]on the left hand side. 1:02:30

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Participant 21) Hello, this is Philip [br]from IBA

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and I wonder if we're not discussing[br]on a completely too advanced level.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I just got an email from the school[br]of my son, today,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
where the school counselor had decided[br]that -- and that was the name --

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
that game boys should be left home.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Which makes me think if what we're [br]discussing here is not way away

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
from what the reality looks like,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
because we're here sitting and discussing [br]really interesting topics,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and in our ideal state of mind,[br]it's something like that.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And then I go out and see people like[br]Donald Trump who are ......... check

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
about our education system,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
which is a reason for shutting [br]the whole thing down, I think.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Laughter, applause)

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Moderator) Thank you for that. Yes,[br]another one here, in the front block.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Participant 22) Hello, I come from [br]the University of Oslo, Norway,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
...... (check name).

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
There was quite a lot of investigation [br]in Norway, a few years back.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
They asked employers, I would like to go[br]to employers:

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
"What kinds of skills are you looking for

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
"in a candidate that you consider [br]employing?"

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And the first one was: [br]ability to cooperate.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Then we asked to ourselves,[br]are we doing that?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And then the next one on the list was[br]ability to attain new knowledge;

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
next, ability to think independently[br]and critically;

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
communication skills; ability [br]to use knowledge in new fields;

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
ability to establish contact [br]........... (check) relations.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And again, we're not doing these things,[br]we're not -- kind of.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Point 7 on the list was good theoretical[br]knowledge in your field of science.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
That's what we're doing all the time.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I mean it's great to see [br]so many people here

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
but let's face it, most people[br]are not here. (Laughter)

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
That means that lectures -- I mean it's [br]great to see many people at this meeting,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
concerned with teaching in general,[br]but the fact is that most lectures,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
say basic course in first year mathematic,[br]whatever, at my university,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
are being taught today in exactly [br]the same way as when I was a student,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
thirty years ago.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
So that's why this conference [br]is important,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
that's why we need to provide students --[br]some people have to take responsibility

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
to provide students with the skills [br]that employers need.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Applause)[br](Moderator) Thank you.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
There was another question just near[br]to the last speaker, in the same block,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
the lady there, just the row in front,[br]I think.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Participant 23) Hi, Lisa, [br]with the Global School Network.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And ........ (check)

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
perhaps it's not just what skills [br]we're teaching, but more so

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
what 21st century pedagogical skills[br]that we're using, in that

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
sometimes it's just as important[br]how it's being taught

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
than what is being taught.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And I think back to my college and[br]in some of the courses,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
sometimes when I was going through[br]the course catalog,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
it wasn't how exciting the title was,[br]but who was teaching it.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And I think that goes back to [br]some of the test scores

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
that teachers are very focused on as well.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And when I look at my daughter[br]who has started school

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and what when I started school[br]30 years ago,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and looking at how she is being taught

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
-- taking away from ...... (check)[br]what should be included --

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
but a lot of that rote learning and a lot[br]of new skills they're using as well, so.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Moderator) OK, thank you, another one[br]in the ..... (check) over there

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Participant 24) Hi, my name is ...... (check)

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I work for UNESCO.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I just want to ask, [br]not just for the panelists,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
but I think for everyone.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Maybe after 20, 30 years or so, are we[br]still going to talk about the same thing?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Or are we going to -- what the idea[br]would be the next topic

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
that we're going to talk about?

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
And I just wanted to also reiterate what [br]our head of office is actually saying,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I mean -- ..... (check name) --

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
he always say that the world is not[br]hungry for more words, more resolutions,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
more talks and more panel discussions.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
The world is actually hungry [br]for more actions.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Thank you very much.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Moderator) Thank you. We've got about[br]5 minutes left for questions.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Please, so if you want to ask a question,[br]just stick your hand up

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
and then we can get an idea: [br]I think there is about three more.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
So, the man right at the back [br]on the back of the aisle here,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
on the right hand side, please, first.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Participant 25) Hi, ............. (check name)[br]from London.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
Miles mentioned knowledge and character,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I think one thing left out here is values.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
So you know, we need knowledge[br]to do things,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
we need skills to do things,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
but we first have to agree at[br]what's worthy of doing.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Moderator) OK, thank you, and there was[br]a question, again on the aisle, here,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
on the left hand side -- [br]lady just down here: that's it.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
(Participant 26) It's not really [br]a question, but a challenge, maybe

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
for the panelists.

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
I miss a little bit of diversity, so[br]maybe more ethnical background,

9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000
different ethnical backgrounds[br]looking at the same question 1:08:09